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Thursday, April 15, 2010

OT: NHL Playoff Thread

I estimate that only 10-12 Primates care about the NHL Playoffs, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the NBA playoffs and Pavement’s discography.

Cabbage Posted: April 15, 2010 at 03:44 PM | 1758 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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Page 13 of 18 pages ‹ First  < 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 > 
   1201. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: July 01, 2011 at 08:19 PM (#3867340)
That Flyers team looks worse off to me, from afar.

Man, take all your ex-Blackhawks to Florida.

Dale likes what he likes. Surprised he didn't top Edmonton for Eager.
   1202. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: July 01, 2011 at 08:29 PM (#3867358)
That Flyers team looks worse off to me, from afar.
they'll make the playoffs, but if they want to make a serious run, they'll need a few things. they'll need pronger and timonen to play near their peak. they'll need some development from the younger players (JVR, giroux, voracek, simmonds, nodl, and schenn). and they'll need jagr and briere to be healthy and productive.


that seems like a lot to ask for, but i think it's also worth pointing out that if the organization thinks they have a chance to make a run in the playoffs when the trade deadline comes up, there's no doubt they'll be buyers.



TSNBobMcKenzie:
Ponikarovsky gets $1.5M on a one year deal in Carolina. [via Twitter]

i'd have much rather had that than talbot.
   1203. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: July 01, 2011 at 09:09 PM (#3867398)
capgeek:
The #Flyers can still have up to about $8m in cap space if they put Laperriere on LTI and leave Schenn off their opening-day roster.

there's also leighton (1.5 million) and jody shelley (1.1 million) who should each be waived.


also, flyers draft picks over the next two years:
2012: 1st, 2nd, 2nd (LA-richards), 2nd (FLA-versteeg*), 3rd, 3rd (FLA-versteeg)
2013: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd (MIN-powe)

FLA has the option to push the 2012 2nd rounder to 2013. i'd bet good money on that happening.



oh, and also, they still need to come to an agreement with restricted free agent wayne simmonds.
   1204. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: July 02, 2011 at 02:29 AM (#3867611)
The Colorado trade for Varlamov is so insane. Would have given up less just to sign him to an offer sheet for what they're gonna pay him anyway. I hope that first rounder becomes somebody great.

Handzus to the Sharks nullifies my main complaint about the team's moves so far, a little. I've always liked him. And for a team that couldn't kill a penalty and couldn't keep pucks out of their net at the end of third periods when they were ahead, he fills a need.
   1205. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: July 03, 2011 at 03:28 PM (#3868310)
Jagr said he had an opportunity to play more with the Flyers and likes the bold moves general manager Paul Holmgren made the last 10 days. Jagr says the addition of goalie Ilya Bryzgalov was a reason for his signing. The Flyers also acquiesced with his wish for a one-year deal.

"I think it's better for the team, because you don't know how things are going to go," he said. "You might think it's going to be good, you might hope it's going to be good, but there's no guarantees. And if something goes wrong, why have two years?"

that last part seems pretty amazing to me.
   1206. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: July 03, 2011 at 03:47 PM (#3868321)
Jagr is always very concerned about whether the team he plays for will expect him to play hard very often.
   1207. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: July 03, 2011 at 09:04 PM (#3868447)
Jagr is always very concerned about whether the team he plays for will expect him to play hard very often.
i'm very curious to see what this team looks like when it comes together.


Handzus to the Sharks nullifies my main complaint about the team's moves so far, a little. I've always liked him. And for a team that couldn't kill a penalty and couldn't keep pucks out of their net at the end of third periods when they were ahead, he fills a need.

there were rumors that he was headed here, and i'm pretty glad to have dodged that bullet. he was slowing down when we traded him 5 years ago, and i can't imagine that's gotten any better.

he was a very, very good player earlier in his career, but he's not that anymore




there's a rumor that the flyers have an offer on the table for zenon konopka. you really have no idea how much i want that. i'm optimistic about the richards/carter trades, curious about the jagr signing, and disappointed about lilja and talbot, but konopka?

that guy was born to wear orange and black. he led the league in PIMs the last two years while being one of the best faceoff men in the league at the same time. i realize it's pretty insane for me to feel this way over a guy of konopka's stature, but i'd be positively giddy if they could put that together.
   1208. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: July 04, 2011 at 01:07 PM (#3868652)
I had soured on Heatley. Was never that big on him, actually. Havlat has long been one of my favorite players, but the injuries and time probably mean the Sharks are getting him too late. I don't think they've downgraded at all as long as Havlat doesn't get limited to 15 games or something, which is a distinct possibility, and the couple mil extra in cap space is a nice luxury.

Still just one forward for one forward. Need a couple more.
   1209. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: July 05, 2011 at 01:44 AM (#3868969)

According to TSN.ca, Max Talbot's five-year, $9 million contract is in violation of the league’s salary cap rules.

Talbot reportedly is set to make $2.5 million and $2.25 million respectively over the first two years of the deal but only $1 million in each of the final two years.

This would violate the league’s salary cap rules, because the final two years of the contract can not be less than half of either of the first two years.

Consequently, the Flyers will have to give Talbot an extra $125,000 in either of the final two years (increasing his salary to $1.125 million).

Although the Flyers are unlikely to face a penalty according to the report, they will have to restructure the deal to fit within the salary cap parameters.
does this rule actually exist?
   1210. Yardape Posted: July 05, 2011 at 01:57 AM (#3868974)
The Colorado trade for Varlamov is so insane. Would have given up less just to sign him to an offer sheet for what they're gonna pay him anyway. I hope that first rounder becomes somebody great.


Seriously. On the other hand, the Caps look like geniuses. Trade Varlamov for some nice draft picks, then sign Vokoun (who's better than Varlamov...or Bryzgalov, sorry STEAGLES) to a relative bargain of a contract. Dammit.
   1211. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: July 05, 2011 at 03:00 AM (#3868999)
does this rule actually exist?

Yes. There are quite a few weird rules in the post-Kovalchuk era.
   1212. zack Posted: July 05, 2011 at 01:08 PM (#3869097)
I think that rule as quoted is wrong, it has nothing to do with the final years, but with the amount of drop in one year between 3 and 4.

I haven't followed any of the roster moves since Friday while I was out of town, but I saw somewhere that the Blackhawks signed Carcillo. I'm hoping that I read that wrong.
   1213. zack Posted: July 05, 2011 at 01:17 PM (#3869100)
God dammit.
   1214. DA Baracus Posted: July 05, 2011 at 01:19 PM (#3869102)
Yeah, TSN has it wrong. The contract can only drop 50% of the first two year's salary, so it can't go from $2.25M to $1M, it has to go to $1.125M. It's really no big deal, no penalty is expected. The "Kovalchuk rule" has nothing to do with this.

Meanwhile, a contract that pays Brad Richards $7 million one year and $1 million the next is legal.
   1215. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: July 05, 2011 at 01:19 PM (#3869103)
I haven't followed any of the roster moves since Friday while I was out of town, but I saw somewhere that the Blackhawks signed Carcillo. I'm hoping that I read that wrong.
i actually like carbomb. he's a goon, but he's gotten better at picking his spots to show it, and he's got enough talent to not be completely out of water on a 2nd or 3rd line if you need it for a couple of periods.
   1216. Jimmy P Posted: July 05, 2011 at 03:44 PM (#3869198)
I had soured on Heatley. Was never that big on him, actually. Havlat has long been one of my favorite players, but the injuries and time probably mean the Sharks are getting him too late.

I don't get this trade. They're roughly the same production wise, the mechanism's different, but there's so much more risk with Havlat. Granted, over the past three season's he has managed to play in 81, 73, and 78 games, but the risk is there. I've always thought Heatley was a better player. We'll see if Havlat can start scoring more getting away from the Wild.

Seriously. On the other hand, the Caps look like geniuses. Trade Varlamov for some nice draft picks, then sign Vokoun (who's better than Varlamov...or Bryzgalov, sorry STEAGLES) to a relative bargain of a contract. Dammit.

What is Colorado doing? They made that trade at the deadline last year and now this one.
   1217. Random Transaction Generator Posted: July 05, 2011 at 04:25 PM (#3869214)
They're roughly the same production wise, the mechanism's different, but there's so much more risk with Havlat.

But there is also so much less salary cap with Havlat.
Heatley is due $18million over the next 3 years, with a $7.5million cap hit for each of them.
Havlat is due $21million over the next 4 years, with a $5.0million cap hit for each of them.

And there might be something about Heatley being on his 3rd team in 4 years. Maybe he's "clubhouse cancer".
   1218. Shredder Posted: July 05, 2011 at 04:40 PM (#3869220)
The Colorado trade for Varlamov is so insane. Would have given up less just to sign him to an offer sheet for what they're gonna pay him anyway. I hope that first rounder becomes somebody great.
Really makes me wonder what they offered or were willing to offer for Bernier. I'd take Bernier every day of the week over Varlamov. I don't think there's any way both Bernier and Quick break camp with the Kings before the 2012-2013 season.
there were rumors that he was headed here, and i'm pretty glad to have dodged that bullet. he was slowing down when we traded him 5 years ago, and i can't imagine that's gotten any better.
Zus is actually pretty versatile, and while the Kings can replace, I'm still a little sorry to see him go. He can play a third line role or a second line role and adapt his game for either one. Good faceoff guy. Excellent in the locker room. Hard worker. He'll help shore up the defense for San Jose, who could use it.

I think San Jose v. L.A. is going to take shape as a great rivalry over the next season or two while the Sharks' top six are still in their prime. I like San Jose's top six a little better than the Kings', but I think the Kings are better on defense 1-6, regardless of their awful showing in the playoffs, and I'd take Quick OR Bernier over Niemi. I think they're pretty even on paper right now, but I give the Sharks the advantage until the Kings can win a playoff series. Still very excited about his core, though. Kopitar, Richards, Brown, Williams, Johnson, Greene, and hopefully soon Doughty all signed long term. Good mix of age and youth, skill and grit on the blue line. And Kyle Clifford is going to be a beast.
   1219. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: July 05, 2011 at 06:28 PM (#3869281)
Seriously. On the other hand, the Caps look like geniuses. Trade Varlamov for some nice draft picks, then sign Vokoun (who's better than Varlamov...or Bryzgalov, sorry STEAGLES) to a relative bargain of a contract. Dammit.
vokoun got 1/1.5. bryzgalov got 9/51.



yeah, that doesn't look too ####### good right now.
I think that rule as quoted is wrong, it has nothing to do with the final years, but with the amount of drop in one year between 3 and 4.
how does this league even exist at this point? that's a terrible rule.
   1220. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: July 05, 2011 at 06:29 PM (#3869282)
konopka signed with ottawa.


i'm not crushed, but i'm not too far away from that. i really wanted the goon.
   1221. Cabbage Posted: July 05, 2011 at 07:10 PM (#3869303)
Philly's got to have some buyers remorse at this point... but I suppose they still ended up with the team they wanted.
   1222. Jimmy P Posted: July 05, 2011 at 08:45 PM (#3869353)
And there might be something about Heatley being on his 3rd team in 4 years. Maybe he's "clubhouse cancer".

Five years. The Atlanta one is understandable. I'm confused on why he signed a big deal with Ottawa and then less than a year later wanted out. This one, the Sharks wanted Havlat and weren't scared of the price.

He also may be either breaking down or not able to play in a speed game. Goals are decreasing every year.

vokoun got 1/1.5. bryzgalov got 9/51. + Jeff Carter + Mike Richards

<i>yeah, that doesn't look too ####### good right now.
   1223. Greg K Posted: July 05, 2011 at 09:21 PM (#3869378)
bryzgalov got 9/51. + Jeff Carter + Mike Richards

Man, I knew NHL contracts were getting crazy, but I didn't know players could be paid in slaves.
   1224. DA Baracus Posted: July 05, 2011 at 09:31 PM (#3869383)
Still have to see what Wayne Simmonds gets, but the Flyers aren't saving much money in the Richards trade. His cap his is $5.75M, Schenn's is $3.11M, leaving $2.64M as the difference, which Simmonds will get a very good chunk of.
   1225. Cabbage Posted: July 05, 2011 at 10:11 PM (#3869398)
I'm curious to see if the Kings work out a Doughty extension
   1226. Shredder Posted: July 05, 2011 at 10:35 PM (#3869410)
I'm curious to see if the Kings work out a Doughty extension
Worst case, he gets signed to an offer sheet and they match, or it's ridiculous and take the picks. I can't see them not getting it done, though. The friction, if any, will come from him wanting a contract based on his tremendous 2009-2010, and not his underwhelming 2010-2011.
   1227. zack Posted: July 06, 2011 at 01:12 PM (#3869907)
Just give him $6 for 6 and be done with it.

That's probably the largest RFA cap hit for a defensemen ever, which sounds reasonable. Seabrook just got $5.8 for 5. Doughty is too young for one of those lifetime circumvention contracts.
   1228. zack Posted: July 06, 2011 at 01:36 PM (#3869935)
I mean GVT is a crude measure of value, especially for defensemen, but it's all I got that I can compare quickly. Take it basically as a measure of offensive defensemen.

Defensemen who put up a 15 GVT season at age 20 or less:
Raymond Bourque, Bobby Orr, Paul Coffey, Scott Stevens, Larry Murphy, Phil Housley, Brian Leetch, Glen Wesley, Drew Doughty, Alex Pietrangelo.

Doughty had 20 GVT at 20, the only other guys over 20 are Bourque and Orr. Only 32 D-men have ever even played a full season as a teenager.

Also, Pietrangelo had a pretty nice season, huh.
   1229. Shredder Posted: July 06, 2011 at 01:53 PM (#3869950)
The issue with Doughty is that Dean Lombardi is going to want to give him something around Duncan Keith's 5.5MM cap hit. But Meehan is going to argue that Doughty is as valuable as Anze Kopitar (he's not) who got a seven year deal with a cap hit around 6.8MM. The Kings don't want to bid against themselves. Ultimately, they're probably waiting for the Shea Weber deal to get done and they'll go from there.

They'll match any offer sheet though, unless it's so huge that it's an obvious ploy to screw the Kings. If that's the case, they'll wave goodbye and use their prospects (they have a solid top 6 defensemen, and probably three more who could play in the NHL right now with about 25 other teams) and the picks they get from the signing to trade for someone to fill the hole.

Doughty has amazing potential, but he also has had an issue with staying in shape, and after reading a few too many press clippings, he put up a pretty mediocre year in 2010-2011. I loved Wayne Simmonds, but they were roommates, and there are rumors that part of the goal of the Richards deal was to break up Doughty and Simmonds. Young Canadian kids in LA with lots of money can occasionally be a recipe for disaster.
   1230. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: July 19, 2011 at 08:01 PM (#3881531)
stamkos: 5/35
   1231. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: July 19, 2011 at 08:23 PM (#3881553)
Wow, Flyers got him cheap.
   1232. DA Baracus Posted: July 19, 2011 at 08:30 PM (#3881561)
What a shocker, Stamkos re-signs with Tampa and nary an offer sheet.
   1233. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: July 19, 2011 at 08:49 PM (#3881579)
What a shocker, Stamkos re-signs with Tampa and nary an offer sheet.
it's a lower AAV than chris drury got as a FA 4 summers ago. if the number is right, it seems like a stunningly modest commitment.
   1234. DA Baracus Posted: July 19, 2011 at 08:55 PM (#3881590)
it's a lower AAV than chris drury got as a FA 4 summers ago.


No it's not, Drury got 5/35.25, Stamkos got 5/37.5.
   1235. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: July 19, 2011 at 09:02 PM (#3881602)
No it's not, Drury got 5/35.25, Stamkos got 5/37.5.
it's not 5/35?


anyway. that seems a bit of a nitpick. the extra 500K per year aside, it's still a stunningly modest commitment.
   1236. zack Posted: July 19, 2011 at 09:17 PM (#3881615)
Drury was a UFA (and laughably overpaid, like all the departing '07 Sabres). Not really comparable.

As far as I can tell, this makes Stamkos the 4th highest paid (non-arb eligible) RFA since the lockout. Ovechkin ($9.5), Malkin ($8.7), Crosby ($8.7). Sounds about right.

Absolutely shocking that the Flyers weren't able to fit him into their $.175 of cap space.
   1237. zack Posted: July 19, 2011 at 09:20 PM (#3881619)
For combined seasonsfrom 1990-91 to 2010-11playing goalierequiring Games Played >= 500sorted by descending Save Percentage.
Rk                   Player From   To  Tm  Lg Pos   GP   W   L T/O   GA    SA    SV  SV%  GAA  SO PIM   MIN   GPS
1             Dominik Hasek 1991 2008 TOT NHL   G  735 389 223  95 1572 20220 18648 .922 2.20  81 170 42837 156.8
2            Roberto Luongo 2000 2011 TOT NHL   G  672 308 269  75 1622 20098 18476 .919 2.53  55  32 38527 148.5
3              Tomas Vokoun 1997 2011 TOT NHL   G  632 262 267  76 1538 18495 16957 .917 2.56  44 119 36083 130.3
4              Patrick Roy
1991 2003 TOT NHL   G  788 418 248 102 1895 21956 20061 .914 2.45  54 234 46375 154.5
5            Martin Brodeur 1992 2011 NJD NHL   G 1132 625 350 137 2467 28443 25976 .913 2.22 116 118 66637 190.8
6    Jean
-Sebastien Giguere 1997 2011 TOT NHL   G  525 231 195  67 1258 14398 13140 .913 2.53  34  88 29777  95.6
7          Miikka Kiprusoff 2001 2011 TOT NHL   G  529 276 177  58 1261 14424 13163 .913 2.46  40  47 30697  94.2
8            Evgeni Nabokov 2000 2010 SJS NHL   G  563 293 178  66 1294 14757 13463 .912 2.39  50 100 32492  97.7
9            Dwayne Roloson 1997 2011 TOT NHL   G  566 214 241  79 1424 15816 14392 .910 2.65  28  90 32198  98.8
10              Marty Turco 2001 2011 TOT NHL   G  538 273 165  66 1200 13337 12137 .910 2.35  41 166 30696  84.1
11            Jose Theodore 1996 2011 TOT NHL   G  580 260 232  55 1468 16090 14622 .909 2.69  30  36 32792  99.8
12               Ed Belfour 1991 2007 TOT NHL   G  940 480 308 122 2243 24146 21903 .907 2.47  76 374 54547 154.1
13       Nikolai Khabibulin 1995 2011 TOT NHL   G  743 316 308  88 1928 20765 18837 .907 2.72  43 134 42496 123.7
14              Olaf Kolzig 1993 2009 TOT NHL   G  717 303 295  87 1873 20055 18182 .907 2.70  35 107 41551 122.2
15       John Vanbiesbrouck 1991 2002 TOT NHL   G  566 236 218  88 1443 15525 14082 .907 2.65  33 157 32635  98.8
16               Sean Burke 1991 2007 TOT NHL   G  693 270 287  95 1850 19723 17873 .906 2.83  34 212 39249 123.5
17            Curtis Joseph 1991 2009 TOT NHL   G  928 445 347  95 2468 26360 23892 .906 2.78  51 126 53202 164.5
18             Chris Osgood 1994 2011 TOT NHL   G  744 401 216  95 1768 18629 16861 .905 2.49  50 137 42564 108.3
19             Felix Potvin 1992 2004 TOT NHL   G  635 266 260  85 1694 17864 16170 .905 2.76  32  82 36765 106.3
20               Tommy Salo 1995 2004 TOT NHL   G  526 210 225  73 1296 13591 12295 .905 2.55  37  67 30436  78.6
21             Mike Richter 1991 2003 NYR NHL   G  643 289 253  68 1774 18533 16759 .904 2.89  24  34 36863 112.1
22         Jocelyn Thibault 1994 2008 TOT NHL   G  586 238 238  75 1508 15706 14198 .904 2.75  39  18 32892  90.7
23              Arturs Irbe 1992 2004 TOT NHL   G  568 218 236  79 1513 15033 13520 .899 2.83  33  90 32066  83.6
24              Mike Vernon 1991 2002 TOT NHL   G  543 247 210  67 1475 13877 12402 .894 2.84  24 167 31162  73.7
25             Bill Ranford 1991 2000 TOT NHL   G  511 179 234  61 1639 14686 13047 .888 3.45  10  37 28521  70.5 


I don't know about you, but that screams Hall of Fame to me. ####### Red Wings.
   1238. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: July 19, 2011 at 09:39 PM (#3881639)
Drury was a UFA (and laughably overpaid, like all the departing '07 Sabres). Not really comparable.
the flyers were in on him, gomez, and briere that offseason. i'm very happy to have had briere instead of either of the other 2.

As far as I can tell, this makes Stamkos the 4th highest paid (non-arb eligible) RFA since the lockout. Ovechkin ($9.5), Malkin ($8.7), Crosby ($8.7). Sounds about right.
well, except for ovechkin's salary being due over 13 years and crosby and malkin making more than a million more per year over the length of theirs.

Absolutely shocking that the Flyers weren't able to fit him into their $.175 of cap space.
except that's not the number. your figure likely includes the salaries of ian laperriere (1.167), jody shelley (1.1), matt walker (1.7), michael leighton (1.5), brayden schenn (3.1), and maybe kris versteeg (3.3), as well. also, segei bobrovski (1.75) could have easily been set aside after the addition of ilya bryzgalov.


and even if your number was the end-all be-all, i believe there's a 10% buffer that the teams can use over the offseason to go above the upper limit. simply put, there's no issue with the cap right now.
   1239. zack Posted: July 19, 2011 at 10:00 PM (#3881654)
Eh? I'm not saying the Flyers are cap-######, I'm just saying you were nuts if you thought the Flyers had even the slimmest chance of getting Stamkos. Say they put LaPerriere on LTIR, put Schenn in Glens Falls, cut Shelley and never sign Jagr. Replace three of them with minimum wage scrubs and you have about $7 in cap space. Stamkos got $7.5, so you're gonna have to beat that to poach him, probably north of $9. There's no way in hell the Flyers ever had a chance at poaching him.
   1240. DA Baracus Posted: July 20, 2011 at 01:04 AM (#3881792)
except that's not the number.


That *is* the number, sans Walker and Leighton.

also, segei bobrovski (1.75) could have easily been set aside after the addition of ilya bryzgalov.


That's great, trade him away a year after bringing him over from Russia as a 21 year old kid and exceeding expectations. Fantastic way to run organization.
   1241. JL Posted: July 22, 2011 at 06:41 PM (#3883348)
I don't know about you, but that screams Hall of Fame to me. ####### Red Wings.

I presume you are talking about Osgood. My initial reaction is that he is a HoFer, but I also realize my bias as a Wings fan.
   1242. DA Baracus Posted: July 23, 2011 at 08:46 PM (#3883936)
Osgood was in the right time at the right place. Very good player, but not great. Not that that stops the HHOF.
   1243. zack Posted: July 25, 2011 at 07:24 PM (#3884866)
Osgood was in the right time at the right place. Very good player, but not great. Not that that stops the HHOF.


I don't think he even rises to the level of "very good", he was the very definition of cromulet, he was literally "good enough" since they won two Cups with him in net. He had a nice four year peak, probably HOVG-worthy, from 94 through 98. Outside of that, he ranged from mediocre to terrible.

Really, his HOF case is built on wins. Goaltending wins, in my opinion, have even less validity than pitcher wins. Every statistic that an Osgood supporter can trot out is a function of team quality, like wins and GAA, and he played on some of the best teams in history.

My case against him:
1) Save percentage is the best measure of goalies that we have. GAA is too dependent on the quality of your defense, but once the puck has made it to the crease it is essentially just the goalie's skill, and that is what save percentage represents. Look at that table I posted in #1237, that is Osgood's entire career as well as all other goalies who played at least 500G during that time. Osgood is 18th on the list, surrounded by un-notables, and it is not a case of selective endpoints dragging Osgood down as most of his contemporaries decline phases are also captured. What, other than wins, distinguishes him from those around him? Certainly isn't black ink.

2) He didn't play that much. 44,000 minutes is short for a modern HHOF goalie. What's more, he never topped 67 starts in a season, and his peak averaged only 55 games per. Broduer at his (much, much longer) peak averaged 72. Roy, 60. Belfour, 57 but with 3 seasons over 70. Hasek, 60. And all of those guys played much, much more outside of their peaks as well, so that they all had over 50,000 minutes (other than late-starting Hasek). Maybe the Red Wings were saving him for the Cup run, but it is hard to say his other numbers were mediocre because he was running himself to exhaustion. The truth is he spent most of his career as the 1A at best, hard to distinguish from what should be clear backups to a HHOF-level goalie.

3) He had great success in the postseason, but you'll be hard pressed to find a goalie who was less tested than Osgood. For example, his team trailed in a playoff series ONCE in their two championship runs. Once!

People like to compare him to Belfour, who just went into the HHOF, because they were contemporaries and Belfour has a similarly pedestrian .906 save percentage. But Belfour played 55,000 minutes to Osgood's 42,000. And that .906 ignores the fact that Belfour's best seasons were in the "80's", which were in full-effect up through 92-93, coincidentally the year before Osgood was called up. If you neutralize their career save percentages to a .910 average, Belfour's is .917, while Osgood's is exactly league average.

So the case for Osgood is basically that he had 400 wins in only 42,000 minutes. Either he is the clutchiest clutcher that ever clutched, which is bullshit, or he was a pretty okay goalie on some great teams.

On the other hand, the HHOF is already basically a joke.
   1244. Cabbage Posted: July 25, 2011 at 07:37 PM (#3884882)
The Contrarian Goaltender does not like Osgood:

http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/2008/06/no-to-hhof-for-chris-osaverage.html
http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/2009/06/what-to-make-of-chris-osgood.html
http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/2010/12/it-doesnt-matter-how-good-his-teammates.html
http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/2010/12/two-sentence-argument-against-chris.html
   1245. JL Posted: July 26, 2011 at 01:53 PM (#3885626)
Zack - While I don't think Osgood is a Hall of Fame worthy goalie, I do think he was pretty good. I also have some nits with your analysis:

but once the puck has made it to the crease it is essentially just the goalie's skill, and that is what save percentage represents.

That assumes all shots are the same, and that a defense has nothing to do with the type of shots that the opponents take. Save percentage is a good metric, but it is hardly the end all to the debate.

He had great success in the postseason, but you'll be hard pressed to find a goalie who was less tested than Osgood. For example, his team trailed in a playoff series ONCE in their two championship runs. Once!

Taken alone, this is pretty poor reasoning. Perhaps Osgood was the reason they only trailed once during those two runs?

Despite these issues, I generally agree with your conclusion. I think the most difficult issue for Osgood is the games/minutes played. For that amount of time, he needed to have a much higher peak. He just does not make it.
   1246. zack Posted: July 26, 2011 at 02:47 PM (#3885680)
That assumes all shots are the same, and that a defense has nothing to do with the type of shots that the opponents take


Of course, but over a career? I can't imagine it is that significant an effect. And if anything, if we took a defense-impacting-shot-quality tack, it would discredit Osgood, not benefit him. Save percentage isn't the end-all, be-all, but of the numbers we have, it's by far the most meaningful. I do hate how standard save percentage does not distinguish between regular strength and powerplay shots, but again, in Osgood's case this could only hurt him as the Red Wings were generally very disciplined.
   1247. zack Posted: August 03, 2011 at 08:42 PM (#3892056)
Drew Doughty just popped a big ole' boner as Shea Weber wins a $7.5 million arbitration contract. Seems pretty insane for a first-year RFA, but it's based on comparable salary and not cap-hits and is reasonable in that light. I like to think that Team Weber's presentation was just a loop of him shooting the puck through the net in the Olympics.

The Blackhawks have locked up their entire roster until the heat death of the universe by signing Patrick Sharp to a 5 year contract with a $5.9 cap hit. It is both wonderful and terrifying as a 'hawks fan to have such a good core for the team for so long, with essentially the top-6, both top pairs and the #1 goalie locked up together for the next three years, with many of the big pieces around for 4+. It is terrifying because they are basically reduced to rearranging deck chairs for the next half-decade, and if, oh lord the cap ever went down...
   1248. zack Posted: August 17, 2011 at 02:33 PM (#3902224)
   1249. Langer Monk Posted: September 23, 2011 at 04:01 AM (#3933799)
Alright, hockey's back.

Thoughts on Shanny?
   1250. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: September 23, 2011 at 04:08 AM (#3933802)
Fine so far, but everybody's tough at the start of a season when it's message sending time. It'll matter when it's someone who plays a part in determining who wins and loses games, at a time when winning and losing is important.

Other than that, either put a damned tie on for your videos or wear a track suit. Don't go in between.
   1251. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: September 27, 2011 at 10:07 AM (#3938696)
to recap last night's flyers-rangers game: zac rinaldo took a run at andre deveaux, and a fight ensued. then tom sestito took a run at andre deveaux, and a fight ensued. then wayne simmonds took a run at andre deveaux. there was no fight with that one, but simmonds did draw a matching penalty in the ensuing melee.

i think jagr also scored a goal or two in there.


more interestingly, there was an incident that took place between sean avery and wayne simmonds. things to know:
1, sean avery is a gaping #######.
2, wayne simmonds is black
3, last week, wayne simmonds was the victim of a incident where a fan in london, ontario, canadia threw a banana peel at him while he was on the ice for a shootout
4, sean avery is an advocate for gay rights.
5, sean avery is claiming that wayne simmonds called him a faggot at some point last week.


my head is basically exploding with this one.

Thoughts on Shanny?
i'm fine with players getting lengthy suspensions for dangerous hits, but the past incongruency in the discipline for similar hits based almost solely on the severity of the resulting injury, or the lack thereof, has made it really hard to respect the integrity of the people who dish out the discipline. looking at the body of campbell's work, it's hard to say that his interest was in protecting the players of the league, so much as it was about protecting the reputation of the league from the same mainstream sports media who forgot it existed once it moved off of ESPN.


there's not exactly a high bar for shanahan to live up to, so i guess i'll just be happy that campbell is gone and patient in waiting to see the effect of shanahan's new rules implementations.
   1252. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: October 05, 2011 at 12:09 AM (#3951335)
Has anyone here used NHL GameCenter in the past? I'm thinking of purchasing that (rather than Center Ice), but was hoping to get a first-hand account before committing.
   1253. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: October 05, 2011 at 12:26 AM (#3951374)
GameCenter is pretty great. It is what it says it is. Doesn't screw up all the time or have any onerous restrictions. Any game on Versus or NHLN cannot be watched live on GameCenter, and local blackouts apply.

Now, I did get a PS3 during the season last year, largely to watch games thru GameCenter on my tv. And that app was all messed up. Not an option. Which really frosted me, because the app costs ten bucks and doesn't work, whereas MLB.TV is free and works. I hope it is fixed for this season. But you also have many other streaming to tv options, like Roku, Boxee, etc.

And depending on where you get your CI from, the picture quality is better on GC. I know Comcast only has one HD channel for CI, for example. It's all good on GC.
   1254. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: October 06, 2011 at 02:33 AM (#3953011)
FWIW, which is not much at this point, I needed to call support today to check on my subscription. I had received no indication that I was getting auto-renewed like they typically do and wanted to know if I needed to buy it again. I inquired about the PS3 app and the guy I was talking to, who was pretty cool, said that the Sony folks had done some work on the backend to try and fix the issues and all looked well but of course we wouldn't really know until they tried it.

So, that seemed like a reasonable response; better than just saying it's a problem with Sony and call them if you've got a problem, we don't handle any of that, which is what everyone was told last year.

I'm hopeful. May not get to test it until sometime over the weekend though with Game 5s the next two nights. Looks like it'll be baseball on the tube and Habs/Leafs on the laptop tomorrow.
   1255. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: October 06, 2011 at 02:56 AM (#3953039)
Thanks for the responses, Justin. I'm just going through my computer to my TV with an HDMI adapter, so provided the stream is fine, I doubt I'll face similar problems. The blackout of NHL-N and Versus games kind of sucks, given that the Hawks are on both of those stations quite a bit, but that's a manageable problem.
   1256. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: October 06, 2011 at 03:16 AM (#3953062)
Glad to help. Your situation brings another thing to mind. I actually did not like trying to watch on my tv through an HDMI adapter to the computer. For some reason, it would not fill out the screen. At first, even in full screen, they kept a bar up top with all the games of the day listed, which was stupid. That was fixed last year, but still I had lots of black space on top and bottom on the tv and the viewable picture also looked funny. The screen was filled out horizontally, after all, so the 4:3 proportion or whatever was messed up.

I fiddled with all kinds of settings and even had a friend better versed in home electronics than I try to get it right, with no luck.

Again, I don't really know if there was something I was missing, or it's my tv or my laptop or my HDMI adapter or what. You and others may have no problem. But watching it that way was not good, for me.
   1257. zack Posted: October 06, 2011 at 02:10 PM (#3953325)
Hoooooooooooooooooooccccccckkkkkkkkkkkeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyy.
   1258. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: October 06, 2011 at 02:57 PM (#3953371)
Justin -- was that problem limited to Gamecenter, or did you also have similar issues with MLB.tv (or any other streams)? I've been running FoxSoccer.tv, MLS' Match Day and MLB.tv from my laptop through the HDMI pretty seamlessly so far. Not being able to run Gamecenter through the HDMI would definitely be more than a little annoying -- still not enough to prevent me from purchasing it, but still -- and I appreciate the heads-up.

Zack -- my impression of the Hawks last year was (a) they were a bit unlucky from a goal-differential-not-translating-to-wins perspective, and (b) they were not at all deep, forcing them to play far too many replacement level types. These are admittedly simplistic, as I wasn't as in tune with the Hawks last year as I usually am (part Stanley Cup hangover, part bitterness over seeing such a great team decimated because of the salary cap). I'm going to focus on (b), as (a) seems like a combination of micro level adjustments that Quenneville needs to implement as well as a few more bounces going their way. It seems like they tried to address the lack of depth issue, and for the most part I'm on board with their offseason moves. Still a bit skeptical of signing Montador for four years, but the cap hit isn't too egregious.

Anyways -- I'm curious as to your take on last year's group and the prospects for this year. Also -- please tell me I won't see too many Fernando Pisani and John Scott types this season.
   1259. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: October 06, 2011 at 03:22 PM (#3953405)
I'm not zack, but I can answer some of those questions. I think both your (a) and (b) are partially true and contributed, but there's also a big (c) - hangover/lasting effects from the previous year. First and foremost, IMO, Keith sucked. Now, that's an overreaction, but he was significantly worse and it had a trickle down effect on the defense since he played so much. I really never thought Turco was that bad (not that he was good either , mind you), but the defense was just awful for a long stretch. Hjalmarsson also really sucked last year. Hossa just wasn't himself for very long last year, and sadly that might just be the player he is now. He always seems to have something wrong with him. Sharp took as big of a step back defensively and he stepped forward offensively. It's easy to pile on Kane for being hung over/not really in shape, but that may or may not be overplayed. Guys like Stalberg are fine players, but 3rd line types and he spent a lot of time on the top line. I like Crawford more than I liked Niemi - I think he's a little more athletic, a little smarter, and he gives up fewer WTF goals (and that was with a much worse defense in front of him). I liked the trade for Frolik last year, and I liked the Brunette signing. I think Montador is a good fit, and they still have money to possibly make a splash at the deadline. From what I've seen in the preseason, it's hard not to be impressed with Pirri (the org really likes Kruger, and Pirri just kicked his ass and earned that spot). They're pretty high on Saad too, but I must have just not been paying enough attention to him. A lot is riding on Leddy this year, he's going to be on the 2nd D pair (and Q does like playing him for stretches with Keith too). Scott made the roster, but I don't think he'll play much, but Q likes him more than everyone else so who knows. I do know they won't *need* to play him (either as a D or F), as they have enough decent players. If Kane and Toews improve at all on last year, I don't see why they won't be competing for the division title and they surely are built for a deep playoff run.
   1260. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: October 06, 2011 at 04:03 PM (#3953449)
I know very little about the Hawks' up-and-comers, outside of what I read in Puck Prospectus' top ten article on the Hawks. I haven't seen much of the preseason -- who has Quenneville had Pirri playing with? My hope would be that he's got him centering that second unit (I'm assuming the Kane at center thing was just some tinkering, not a long-term solution?), as opposed to mucking around on the fourth line.
   1261. Shredder Posted: October 06, 2011 at 04:34 PM (#3953475)
So, I've got a big tv and a playstation 3. I went with MLBTV this year over the extra innings package (or rather, just didn't get EI, since I was getting both in the past). I've been hesitant to do the same for hockey because, while I can watch baseball on my iPad or computer or PS3 and be fine, hockey's pace would seem to translate less well over an internet connection. Is this the case, or is NHL Game Center really solid? I'd like to avoid paying for both that and center ice, but I like the portability of game center.
   1262. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: October 06, 2011 at 04:45 PM (#3953487)
Keith - MLB.TV worked fine for me the few times I used HDMI to my tv.

Shredder - Streaming quality, while it worked, was just fine watching Gamecenter on the PS3. The problem was, you could watch about half a period, and then it would just flip out. Most commonly, it would jump back in time. Getting back to live was impossible without exiting and restarting. And oftentimes, then Gamecenter wouldn't load again and you had to uninstall and reinstall the app. As I said above, there is some hope these things have been worked out. I can give a review after a week of the season or something. But during the time before the app would flip out, the picture was great.
   1263. Shredder Posted: October 06, 2011 at 04:51 PM (#3953493)
Thanks, Justin. I'll make a note to ask you about it. Center Ice is usually free for the first week, so hopefully I won't have to make a call before you've seen how the new app is working.
   1264. zack Posted: October 06, 2011 at 07:22 PM (#3953719)

Zack -- my impression of the Hawks last year was (a) they were a bit unlucky from a goal-differential-not-translating-to-wins perspective, and (b) they were not at all deep, forcing them to play far too many replacement level types. These are admittedly simplistic, as I wasn't as in tune with the Hawks last year as I usually am (part Stanley Cup hangover, part bitterness over seeing such a great team decimated because of the salary cap).


I think that's pretty accurate. They were clearly in that group of top-5 teams in the West by roster talent. If you look at the numbers, the 'hawks peripherals were much better than their record would indicate: 3rd in goal differential, 2nd in shot differential. They were first in the NHL in 5v5 shot differential (!). And yet they finished 8th in the conference in points.

They were 18th in save percentage, mostly thanks to Turco being god awful. Their penalty kill was 25th, which destroyed them in many games (and almost can't be that bad again). Their record was 26th of 30 in 1-goal games. Both of those factors have a heavy luck component.

They had a bad habit of coughing up leads late in games, which most people will attribute to character, but had more to do with the fact that all the good players were worked like mules, because of the lack of depth. Toews and Hossa were both in the top 40 for forward time on ice. Keith literally led the league in TOI by 40 seconds a game, and Seabrook and Campbell were top 40 for defensemen.

All of that adds up to the core, which is still intact other than Brian Campbell, comprising easily one of the best teams in the league, and even with the scrub bottom end of the roster from last year you would expect much better results this year. Having watched most of the games, it never felt like they were that good, but I think it's easy to get caught up in the negatives when you're blowing a lead in the 3rd every other game.

New post for this year's team.
   1265. zack Posted: October 06, 2011 at 07:55 PM (#3953762)
I haven't really put all my thoughts on the various moves this summer together. They should be very good again, a cup contender, but it depends largely on health, and also if the regression we saw in Hjalmarsson and Keith last year is real. They have much, much greater depth than last year (easy, when last year's was zero), but the depth will never again be anything like 2008-2010.

The top-6 should be rock-solid again, and Brunette is a solid addition. I'm convinced Hossa is done as an elite scorer (due to chronic shoulder problems), but he can still go into \"#### You I'm Marian Hossa" mode and dominate the run of play. Kane as a center probably won't last, but no matter how you mix them up, Toews, Hossa, Kane, Sharp and Brunette and random rookier are an elite top-6. The good part about the random rookie thing is that the development system is churning again, and while pretty much all our prospects are too young for the NHL, one of Morin, Kruger, Smith, Pirri, or Saad should step up and be a contributor.

The checking line will hopefully be Bickell, Bolland and Frolik all year. That should create one one of the best shutdown lines in the NHL, allowing the top two lines to be heavily leveraged, and will even pop in a few goals. Bickell is one of the best values in the NHL and has great size, Bolland is Bolland, and I've loved Frolik's backchecking. He should also get off the schnied this year, after shooting an impossibly low 3.2% as a Blackhawk last year. Even though he does like to shoot from beyond the circles.

Bolland's health is a huge question mark for the team, between the concussions and the back problems, and he is already hurt again. Center depth in general is a huge concern, as there isn't really a 2nd or 4th line center on the roster. I really wanted Reasoner or Belanger or Madden as the 4th line center for that reason, to shore up the kill and be able to step up if Bolland got hurt.

That leaves the scrubs. Bowman went out and got a bunch of grit, since everyone thought the team last year was soft. Dan Carcillo is famous for being a moron, but he swears he's wisened up, and along with old guy Jamal Mayers should form the mainstay of the 4th line. The rest will be a mix of: Rostislav Olesz, the bad contract we had to take back for getting rid of Campbell's. I see nothing in his track record or preseason to suggest he's worth a ####, but he's pretty big and is a failed first round pick. He could see time anywhere from the 4th to the 1st line. Ben Smith, who I think is worthy of the top-6, but will probably start as the 4C. Stalberg, if his knee clears up, will hopefully return to flying around the ice hitting things like a crazy person. Then there's the list of prospects who might see time when Carcillo is suspended, but most of our kids are too skilled, too small and too young to really be "energy" players. That combination should be better than last year's mostly worthless 4th line. I wouldn't expect much scoring, but they should be hard to play against.

The defense is where the big improvement was (such as it was). Campbell's absence will definitely be felt, but you had to trade that contract if you had the chance. In return, we trade the god awful bottom pairing of Nick Boynton/Jordan Hendry/Jassen Cullimore for one that should be cromulent. And hopefully means that Keith won't have to play 25 minutes a night again, and the PK should be less horrible. I'm high on Steve Montador, I follow the Sabres as well and he was good defensively and is very underated offensively. Sean O'Donnell probably won't play much, but he's basically a less-immobile Sopel. Sami Lepisto has been directly responsible for about half the preseason goals-against that I witnessed, but that's probably just random.

Other than health, the season rests on the defense. Is Keith over the burnout from last year? Hjalmarsson was pretty awful with the puck last year, but had great poise the year before, which is for real? Nick Leddy has incredible paitence with the puck and is blazing fast, but he's also 20 years old and 180 pounds. In the minors, we have a bunch of high end prospects, but in my eyes none of them are remotely ready for the NHL.

We won't talk about the possibilty of Crawford being a mirage, because if he is we're pretty screwed. Ray Emery "won" the back-up job by refusing to go to the minors, he looked terrible in preseason and has a necrotic hip. But he was excellent in a quarter season last year. Alexander Salak is a highly regarded prospect, but who knows with goalies.
   1266. DA Baracus Posted: October 06, 2011 at 08:00 PM (#3953770)
Dan Carcillo is famous for being a moron, but he swears he's wisened up


Don't make me laugh.

Sean O'Donnell probably won't play much, but he's basically a less-immobile Sopel.


O'Donnell needs a walker to get around the ice these days.
   1267. zack Posted: October 06, 2011 at 08:00 PM (#3953774)
Oh and Scott is still on the team, because apparently Quenville needs a pet sasquatch. He's the only guy I think is worthless, other than maybe Carcillo, but I'm letting Carcillo's worthlessness as a human being color my perception of him as a player. That's better than last year, where Boyton, Cullimore, Skille, Pisani, and though I love them, Jake Dowell, and Ryan Johnson were all relative levels of worthless.
   1268. zack Posted: October 06, 2011 at 08:01 PM (#3953779)
Sean O'Donnell probably won't play much, but he's basically a less-immobile Sopel.


O'Donnell needs a walker to get around the ice these days.


Like I said...
   1269. DA Baracus Posted: October 06, 2011 at 08:19 PM (#3953804)
Like I said...


You said he's more mobile than Sopel. I'm disagreeing with you.
   1270. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: October 06, 2011 at 09:15 PM (#3953857)
Dan Carcillo on this team makes me long for the days of Matthew Barnaby in a Hawks' sweater. And I hate Barnaby.

I didn't follow the pre-season too closely- what's the reason for Jeremy Morin not making the team? He didn't look too out of place last season and I think he'd fit nicely in the top 6.
   1271. zack Posted: October 06, 2011 at 09:47 PM (#3953892)
I didn't follow the pre-season too closely- what's the reason for Jeremy Morin not making the team? He didn't look too out of place last season and I think he'd fit nicely in the top 6.


He had his bell rung last January and is still down with postconcussion symptoms.
   1272. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: October 06, 2011 at 11:04 PM (#3953971)
Ok, trying to watch Habs-Leafs now reminds me of another thing about GameCenter streaming thru the PS3 that is absolute crap. Games don't come available for viewing at broadcast start, but game start. Which you will be lucky to catch just right. It is the stupidest thing in the world and I can't believe that only a few months caused me to forget about it. So you pretty much always miss the first minute or two at least. It is so damn ridiculous. And doesn't seem to have changed.

EDIT: Ok, in this case it came up about five minutes after the hour and before the game started. The audio and video are out of sync by about 20 seconds. Anyway, I'll stop giving blow-by-blow analysis now and give a little time for any start of season kinks to get worked out. But I needed to vent on that BS.
   1273. zack Posted: October 07, 2011 at 02:16 PM (#3954976)
That's odd, since the center ice broadcast had all the pre-game stuff included (Bachman Turner -Overdrive in Winnipeg...Oh, Canada).
   1274. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: October 07, 2011 at 02:34 PM (#3954993)
Overall I didn't have too many issues with GameCenter yesterday. I did not run into that issue of having a black bar on top of the screen when streaming through the HDMI cord. The only problem is that given the pace of the game, the fact that you're watching a stream is much more noticeable than, say, baseball or even soccer. As such, the stream is a bit choppy. On the other hand, the picture quality itself is very good, and given that Time Warner only offers two HD Center Ice channels, it's a nice improvement to have every game available in HD.
   1275. Cabbage Posted: October 07, 2011 at 03:05 PM (#3955039)
I'm convinced Hossa is done as an elite scorer (due to chronic shoulder problems), but he can still go into \"#### You I'm Marian Hossa" mode and dominate the run of play.

My thoughts on the Hawks generally mirror whats been discussed above. I also think more depth on the blueline will help in a lot of unseen ways. In baseball, a strong defense not only gets more outs on a ball in play, but it saves runs on the back end because your more talented pitchers throw fewer pitches. A good defense takes innings away from your scrubs and gives them to your aces.

I think blueline depth would do the same thing for the Hawks. Not only will it push the GF/GA pace when the 3rd pairing is on the ice, but it will improve the top pairings by preventing fatigue and allowing them to play in more critical situations. I realize the baseball analogy only goes so far, since you're almost doing the opposite w/r/t playing time, but you all see my point.

Also, relevant to the above quote, Second City Hockey is probably my favorite team-centric blog in all of sportsdom.
   1276. Shredder Posted: October 07, 2011 at 08:11 PM (#3955409)
Well, the Kings power play is in mid-season form, which is to say, it's awful. Oh well, two points is two points. Wire to Wire!
   1277. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: October 08, 2011 at 11:37 PM (#3957108)
No need to wait a week. Just don't get GameCenter if you're desiring to watch it through your PS3. For all of the above reasons.
   1278. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: October 09, 2011 at 09:37 PM (#3957851)
i'm fairly happy with the flyers so far. bryzgalov seems to be better than advertised, at least considering the widespread panning his contract received at the time it was signed. the defense has looked shaky. pronger hasn't looked good, but hopefully that's only because he's still getting up to speed after missing most of the preseason. lilja hasn't been good either, but you're kind of getting what you've paid for in that.


the forwards have been pretty remarkable so far. voracek has been a dart through the neutral zone and on the forecheck. simmonds has been tough at the net and on the boards (plus he drew an instigator on a devil last night for a fight in which he clocked the guy twice in the face). couturier has been strong on the boards and in his own zone, getting tons of time on the PK. the JVR-giroux-jagr line has scored the first flyers goal in each of the first 2 games.


what really is impressive about them so far is the combination of speed and strength that they've shown. they've been flying in the neutral zone on the breakout and the backcheck, but they've also been dominating the boards in the offensive zone. it's also notable that they're really young. jagr, briere, hartnell, and talbot are the only true vested veterans on the opening roster. JVR, giroux, voracek, simmonds, and couturier are all 24 or under, though the first 4 all have multiple years of experience. plus brayden schenn is still waiting in adirondack for an opportunity.


with the way the phillies season ended, the way the eagles season has begun, and the way the NBA has committed to losing the season, the flyers are really gonna have to carry my fandom through the winter. so far, so good.
   1279. zack Posted: October 14, 2011 at 01:57 PM (#3963239)
Have you ever used or seen the word truculence used in a non-hockey context? I think the top 10 hits on google for that word that are actually used in a sentence (not a definition or proper noun) are for hockey.
   1280. zack Posted: October 19, 2011 at 01:47 PM (#3967983)
So ESPN is showing (abbreviated) hockey highlights pretty much daily. Is that just to replace the basketball coverage, or an actual effort to cover hockey?
   1281. Cabbage Posted: October 19, 2011 at 02:02 PM (#3967994)
So ESPN is showing (abbreviated) hockey highlights pretty much daily. Is that just to replace the basketball coverage, or an actual effort to cover hockey?

Sadly, probably the later.
   1282. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: November 04, 2011 at 06:01 PM (#3986551)
a few thoughts now that we're 1 month into the flyers season:

there's really not been much lost offensively, despite having traded carter and richards. the jagr signing has been brilliant, and giroux has gone nuclear with the extra icetime. hartnell has really taken advantage of being inserted on giroux's wing; i don't think anyone thought he had this kind of run of production in him. talbot has been better than i expected, but he's ####### brutal on faceoffs. couturier has been really good, but i think laviolette is trying to moderate his icetime, so as to keep him productive through the end of the season.

the defense has been like a chicken without its head since pronger went down with the eye thing; they're prone to turnovers and they've struggled in the corners and in the paint. coburn specifically has been disappointing on this front, since he's actually got the body to have filled in during pronger's absence, but he's really just a guy at this point. he's 26; he should be in his prime, but he just hasn't stepped up in the way that he really could have.

the goaltending has not been as bad as the numbers say, but at some point, all the fluke goals just add up to mediocrity.


oh, and the team is ####### awful at faceoffs; dead last in the NHL, 46%. in yesterday's game, there was a run of about 30 seconds where the flyers lost 4 or 5 consecutive faceoffs in the defensive zone, with each one leading to a scoring chance against. if this issue isn't fixed, it's gonna pop up in a meaningful situation, and it's gonna cost the team its season.
   1283. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: November 06, 2011 at 12:18 AM (#3987172)
including tonight's game, the flyers have started their last 3 games by jumping out to 3-0, 2-0, and 5-0 leads in the first period. the last two games ended with the devils and sabres combining to score 5 goals against the flyers 1, meaning the flyers only got 3 of the possible 4 points despite the early margins.
   1284. zack Posted: November 08, 2011 at 05:05 PM (#3988542)
Dear fellow Blackhawks fans. Step away from the edge, please, please step away from the edge.
   1285. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: November 08, 2011 at 06:01 PM (#3988587)
Dear fellow Blackhawks fans. Step away from the edge, please, please step away from the edge.


The only thing I'm really concerned about right now is the defense (to be fair, that's a big concern right now). The forwards are too good for the PP to sputter for an entire season; I think that'll get going at some point.

The defense is a mess (outside of Crawford & Keith). Leddy's been fine but he's being asked to be a number 2 d-man when right now he's more like a 5 or 6. Seabrook & Montador have been mediocre. Hjalmarsson hasn't improved much since the 2009-10 season. Sean O'Donnell looks done. Lepisto's nothing more than depth. And they've got nothing at Rockford.

If one of the big five forwards go down injury or Crawford turns into a pumpkin then I'll get really worried.

Also, it's weird that Jamal Mayers has probably been the best off-season signing so far.
   1286. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: November 09, 2011 at 09:06 PM (#3989477)
braydon coburn appears to have signed a 4 year/$18 million extension. i'm not too enthused about this. he was a horse for us in '08, but he hasn't really done anything of note since then, and his role on the team has really been limited by him not being included on the PP units.


he's got the talent to be worth this contract easily, but i don't see what necessitated this signing at this point in time. he hasn't really done anything this year.
   1287. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: November 09, 2011 at 10:33 PM (#3989559)
The forwards are too good for the PP to sputter for an entire season; I think that'll get going at some point.

Agree, and it's not like they haven't had chances. In the current 1 for 30 slump, they've had like 4 goals either not allowed or waived off (Bolland was unlucky last night that the whistle came so quickly). Of course, half of the time they don't even set up the PP. And then for the PK to fall apart like that at the same time, it's make it easy to overreact. It also doesn't help that Q overreacts by switching up the lines, and doing silly #### after a bad game. In reality, it's only 2 bad games. It's going to happen to every team at some point during the season - and it happened to coincide with Keith being out (and his first game back).

The defense is a mess (outside of Crawford & Keith). Leddy's been fine but he's being asked to be a number 2 d-man when right now he's more like a 5 or 6. Seabrook & Montador have been mediocre. Hjalmarsson hasn't improved much since the 2009-10 season. Sean O'Donnell looks done. Lepisto's nothing more than depth. And they've got nothing at Rockford.

Going back to Q, he needs to just put Keith and Seabrook back together and stuff ####### around with both of them. They both play better together than apart. Leddy's is a little slump, but I'm not worried yet since he played fine early on (SCH's pet peeve is that Leddy and Keith need to stop playing together, and I'll agree Leddy looks better away from Keith). I'm much more disappointed in Hjalmarsson, not only has he not improved, he's clearly getting worse.

Going into the year I though they'd use the cap space midseason trade to get another center, but that appears to be a strength right now (Kruger is playing great on the 4th line). It seems like the obvious target is a top 4 defenseman.
   1288. zack Posted: November 10, 2011 at 12:30 AM (#3989653)
The worrying thing about the PP for me is not the lack of goals, it's the lack of shots. I have them as 10th in PP shots+misses/60, which is dramatically better than it was a week ago. In my numbers, they're also the 4th lowest in missed shots on the powerplay, which seems like a good thing, but having watched them a lot it's just a sign that they're not going low/high enough.

The penalty kill sucking you could see coming, they were 5th worst in the league in shots+misses/60 against. Despite the recent crapfest that saw them drop from best in PK% to below-average, they're now only 7th worst in the shots metric!

I personally think the D will be fine. Leddy has been frankly outstanding*. My big beef with Q is for criminally underusing Steve Montador. Montador is averaging 15 minutes/game, and couldn't even break that when their #1D man was out. They also need to cut Scott or Olesz, because this team clearly needs another forward and there are a half dozen in Rockford who need a look.

*Didn't watch the last two shitshows.
   1289. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: November 11, 2011 at 06:22 PM (#3991214)
A few points/questions:

- I agree with Moses re: Kruger, and now that Bolland is out for however long, I'm curious to see how he handles playing with more skill guys. Last night it seemed a like-for-like swap, with Kruger centering Frolik and Bickell. He still seems a bit physically weak, but given that, I actually think he's done a cromulent job working the boards/corners. Passing/vision appears to be a plus tool. Haven't seen enough of him defensively to really make an assessment there, but he's killing penalties, so Q apparently must think he's at least reasonably decent in his own end.

- Viktor Stalberg... what do you guys think of him? Is he just a bottom six player who I have too high of expectations for? He's already 26, so it's not like he's all that young. Doesn't hit and not much defensively, so he kind of has to score to justify his roster spot, right?

- Is there anyplace where I can find up-to-date Blackhawk Corsi numbers?

- I only saw bits and pieces of that Flyers-TBL game -- what happened? Was it simply a case of Philly taking their ball and going home, refusing to play against the trap? The clips I've seen are pretty damn funny. How long did they play the stall game for?
   1290. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: November 15, 2011 at 05:34 PM (#3993943)
about 20% of the way through the flyers season. thoughts so far:

for a team that wasn't supposed to score a lot, they're scoring an awful lot. just looking at the 3rd line, maxime talbot has 6 goals and 4 assists, matt read has 5 and 5, and jake voracek (who really, really needs to change his number) has 3 goals and 9 assists. their 2nd line has JVR and briere, who have each notched 13 points. on the first line, claude giroux is 2nd in the NHL with 22 points. jaromir jagr has 17.


i mean, the scoring really is balanced over 3 lines to an extent that i don't think is matched by any other team in the NHL.


and i said this about coburn's contract a few days ago:

braydon coburn appears to have signed a 4 year/$18 million extension. i'm not too enthused about this. he was a horse for us in '08, but he hasn't really done anything of note since then



well, since that point, i couldn't be more enthused with his play. he's been absolutely nasty since he signed that extension, and he's starting to look like his 2008 self again.
   1291. JustDan Posted: November 15, 2011 at 06:30 PM (#3993997)
Question for the hockey experts.. in last Saturday's game forward Brooks Laich for the Caps played defense. In the recap they said he shifted to D after Hamrlik was hurt, but I count only 4 other D-men that played besides Hamrlik (Alzner, Carlson, Schultz, Wideman).

- How often do teams stray from the 12 forwards / 6 defensemen setup?

- How often does a player switch from his normal position during (or right before) a game?

Since hockey is such a physical sport, I could see that there are in-game injuries that force a team to do a position switch like the Caps did with Laich, but I never have seen it before.
   1292. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: November 15, 2011 at 06:36 PM (#3994006)
Since hockey is such a physical sport, I could see that there are in-game injuries that force a team to do a position switch like the Caps did with Laich, but I never have seen it before.
dustin byfuglien seems to have made a strong transition from forward to defense


i also remember that during the mid-2000s, sami kapanen switched from wing to defense when the flyers were obliterated with injuries during the playoffs one year.
   1293. zack Posted: November 16, 2011 at 04:15 PM (#3994761)
You see it on the power play a ton, especially forwards playing one of the points. The Blackhawks lately have been using a defensemen as a forward on the powerplay. Their useless "enforcer" John Scott is also a defensemen who has played forward (abysmally, for 3 minutes a game) or defense (poorly, for 8 minutes a game). I think Anrej Sekera for Buffalo has skated as a forward in the past, it's not that uncommon for puck-moving defensemen. The opposite, a forward playing as a defensemen (like Laich), is much more rare.

Byfuglien was a defensemen originally, so it's more like he made the transition to forward.

Annoyingly, position isn't recorded on a game-by-game basis, so there isn't any record of these changes that I'm aware of. For example, Patrick Kane has skated full-time as a center this year, but he is still listed as a RW in the box score.

Then there's the always fun forward-as-goalie.
   1294. Langer Monk Posted: November 16, 2011 at 09:27 PM (#3995077)
- How often do teams stray from the 12 forwards / 6 defensemen setup?


Not terribly often, but I wouldn't call it rare either. Hell, the Devils last season for a while couldn't even dress 18 skaters thanks to injuries and cap problems. Occasionally as well, they'd dress a 7th Dman to rotate in and out, as the 4th line wasn't getting a lot of time anyways, and they'd double shift a different forward. Some teams only give those 4th lines a couple shifts a period, and maybe none in the 3rd.

- How often does a player switch from his normal position during (or right before) a game?


In addition to the examples above, I'll just add Brent Burns - 08-09 the Wild had him all over the ice.
   1295. Langer Monk Posted: November 16, 2011 at 09:40 PM (#3995097)
On October 13, 2010, the Devils beat the Sabres 1-0 in OT dressing 16 skaters - 10 forwards and 6 defensemen. I can't remember which forward was the 'extra' one, but he'd get slotted in periodically to rest someone.

They had 15 skaters two days earlier vs the Pens. Though to be honest, I don't remember any such thing happening very often in the 25+ years I've been paying attention.
   1296. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: November 25, 2011 at 11:13 PM (#4000997)
claude giroux is really, really ####### good.
   1297. Flynn Posted: November 26, 2011 at 12:33 AM (#4001025)
yes, yes he is. *grumble*
   1298. Ebessan Posted: November 26, 2011 at 01:24 AM (#4001047)
jake voracek (who really, really needs to change his number)

Oh, absolutely. A #93 Flyers sweater is Disappointing Eastern European Forward made tangible.
   1299. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: November 27, 2011 at 12:32 AM (#4001382)
the rangers played a hell of a game today. they were physical without being reckless, and their shotblocking in the defensive zone made any flyers shot from more than 10 feet mostly pointless. lundqvist looked really good when he had to, but the rangers did a fantastic job of keeping the puck out of their defensive zone.


hopefully both teams will be healthier by the time the winter classic comes around. getting back jagr, pronger, and JVR should put some punch back in the offense.
   1300. Greg K Posted: November 27, 2011 at 01:20 AM (#4001396)
i also remember that during the mid-2000s, sami kapanen switched from wing to defense when the flyers were obliterated with injuries during the playoffs one year.

I believe that was the series where Darcy Tucker absolutely destroyed Kapinen in OT only to have some no name chump score the series winner moments later. All-time Leaf great Karel Pilar sent the game into OT with a late equilizer too. I believe that was the last playoff game Toronto ever played as well.
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