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Thursday, April 15, 2010

OT: NHL Playoff Thread

I estimate that only 10-12 Primates care about the NHL Playoffs, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the NBA playoffs and Pavement’s discography.

Cabbage Posted: April 15, 2010 at 03:44 PM | 1758 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1401. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: April 03, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4095730)
But would you say the same thing if Rinaldo did it to Malkin?
i don't know, but i do think that i would feel much the same way.
   1402. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 03, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4095745)
is it legal?


Yes

is it dangerous?


Yes

is it necessary?


I don't know if "necessary" is the right word. I think "unavoidable" is a better word. Short of a massive change to the way the game is played that would alter the sport in a dramatic way you are going to have collisions. Unfortunately collisions between two big guys skating in opposite directions creates a terribly violent and dangerous collision. Without the ability to stop the puck carrier by crashing into him hockey becomes more similar to basketball than hockey as we know it. The 7-6, 8-7 game becomes the norm rather than the exception and I think the majority of hockey fans would not care for that.

One can argue that while a player should have the ability to physically impede another player without going after him. The problem is that all that happens there is you change the equation. There is still an injury risk but that risk just shifts to being heavily weighted against the defender rather than the current risk which I would argue is about 60-40 against the puck carrier.
   1403. zack Posted: April 04, 2012 at 10:14 AM (#4096395)
I don't know if "necessary" is the right word. I think "unavoidable" is a better word. Short of a massive change to the way the game is played that would alter the sport in a dramatic way you are going to have collisions


It'd be impossible to legislate that hit out of the game without removing hitting altogether, yes. But it certainly was avoidable; all Vitale has to do is not do it.

It'd be a big culture change. I finally realized that the players had absolutely no respect for each other when Eric Staal murdered his own brother.
   1404. zack Posted: April 04, 2012 at 12:13 PM (#4096555)
Here's a good piece of commentary on the ECHL. I agree with the premise that the ECHL isn't served by having NHL affiliations. Very few long-career players ever make a stop in the league. Unlike baseball, there is no real affiliated ladder, and having affiliated leagues below the AHL doesn't serve any development purpose. Players from junior are required to stay in junior, and NCAA players lose their eligibility if they played even a game in a pro league. Any player who is going to make something of himself will be ready to play in the A (I will never be able to call the AHL the "American League") as soon as they are able.
   1405. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: April 04, 2012 at 12:29 PM (#4096579)
Thanks for the info in 1388, zack. I'm surprised they've only committed ten bench minors. My "every other game" was obviously an exaggeration, but something closer to 20 wouldn't have surprised me.

Was hoping Dallas would luck their way into the third spot, but it's looking like either LA or SJ in the first round. Definitely prefer either of those two to Detroit. Not that I'm all that confident in the Hawks -- probably a coin-flip first-round series (maybe a slight favorite if Toews is playing as normal), and a definite 'dog in any subsequent series.
   1406. zack Posted: April 04, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4096616)
The probabilities have it as most likely LA, with Phoenix next. I doesn't afraid of any of the Pacific teams. The 'hawks could certainly lose to any of them, but they can also skate with anyone in the West. They'll go as far as they can carry Crawford.

I'm just glad it's not the Blues or Canucks, I'm not ready for that much grarr yet.
   1407. zack Posted: April 05, 2012 at 11:21 AM (#4097823)
This photo is the gift that keeps on giving.

You have Pominville and Myers staring longingly at each other, about to open-mouth kiss. Then about four feet down you have Roy looking like a fat kid in a candy store. Plus the lil' caps fan about to cry in the background.
   1408. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: April 06, 2012 at 12:09 AM (#4099150)
any thoughts on this latest penguins cheapshot?

   1409. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 06, 2012 at 01:50 AM (#4099170)
any thoughts on this latest penguins cheapshot?

It's dirty, and I hope Orpik gets a game or two suspension.

Next question.
   1410. zack Posted: April 06, 2012 at 10:23 AM (#4099281)
Torts had a pretty good rant about it, basically quoting Steagles on the Penguins being whiners who are themselves dirty.

Also Ryan Clowe poke-checking Jarret Stoll from the bench and getting away with it is much more newsworthy.
   1411. DA Baracus Posted: April 06, 2012 at 10:35 AM (#4099300)
   1412. zack Posted: April 06, 2012 at 10:51 AM (#4099318)
Detroit and Chicago play on Sunday, with basically the winner as the 5th seed (Detroit if it goes to OT at all). Do you want the 5th seed in the West?
   1413. Cabbage Posted: April 06, 2012 at 11:22 AM (#4099345)
The hawks PP is just exceptionally bad right now. THey were meh during the cup run, pretty good last year, and downright embarrassing this year. Most bloggers are blaming the coaching, and I think that's pretty reasonable. It would be one thing if they simply got outworked or out skilled, but there just doesnt seem to be a plan. No one seems to know what's going on when they try to enter the zone. It's a choose-your-own adventure with each forward deciding whether to turn to page 8 for a chip and chase or page 14 to try and carry the puck in. The problem is that the other two guys don't seem to know what book's being read.
   1414. Shredder Posted: April 06, 2012 at 11:32 AM (#4099354)
Also Ryan Clowe poke-checking Jarret Stoll from the bench and getting away with it is much more newsworthy.
If he plays tomorrow night and I'm Daryl Sutter, I dress Westgarth, and I give him, Kyle Clifford, Jordan Nolan, and Dwight King an assignment. Clowe's a pretty big guy, but hell, Westgarth isn't suiting up in the playoffs. It would probably be worth the suspension.
   1415. Langer Monk Posted: April 06, 2012 at 09:12 PM (#4099778)
My thoughts were best expressed by John Tortorella.


I love Atlantic Division (or Patrick Division if you prefer) hockey. How else could I, a Devil fan, agree with Tortorella while still wanting to smack him across the face with a large bass called Hypocrite. Whining about whiners, I love it. I can't wait to see the Pens and Flyers beat the living #### out of one another.
   1416. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: April 06, 2012 at 10:35 PM (#4099798)
Tortorella's got my vote for 2014 US Olympic team head coach.

I think if I had to rank the Western Conference playoff teams I'd go:
1. Vancouver
t2. Detroit, Nashville
4. Chicago
5. St. Louis
6. Phoenix
7. LA
8. San Jose

Phoenix is getting hot at the right time and they just handily beat the Blues in St. Louis tonight. I still think the Hawks can beat the Coyotes, but I'm not too excited about a Mike Smith v. Corey Crawford match up.

St. Louis... I just think their complete lack of offense will catch up to them at some point. I can't see them making it to the Western Conference Finals.
   1417. zack Posted: April 09, 2012 at 10:35 AM (#4100946)
#### I wish Chicago had held on to win in regulation. Start times for the Coyotes series are 10, 10, 9 and 8PM for me on the east coast. Garbage!

#1416: I don't see any way that Vancouver is clearly better than Detroit or St. Louis. If they played anywhere but the NW, they wouldn't be taking home the Presidents.

Detroit/St. Louis/Vancouver
Nashville/Chicago
Phoenix/LA/San Jose
   1418. winnipegwhip Posted: April 09, 2012 at 11:13 AM (#4100992)
The Real Jets franchise wins their first division title!!!! Go Coyotes.
   1419. zack Posted: April 10, 2012 at 02:04 PM (#4102833)
NHL talking heads postseason predictions are so lame. It's like they all have the same flow chart:

1) Which team's starting goalie had a higher save percentage this season -> That team will win
2) If neither team had a higher save percentage, who had more points -> That team will win
   1420. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: April 10, 2012 at 03:17 PM (#4103004)
i am still not at all looking forward to this series between the flyers and penguins.
   1421. JustDan Posted: April 10, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4103060)
Obligatory predictions (no flow chart used):

Rangers in 5
Capitals in 7
Devils in 6
Flyers in 7

Canucks in 6
Sharks in 7
BlackHawks in 6
Predators in 7
   1422. zack Posted: April 11, 2012 at 09:40 AM (#4103746)
Rangers over Senators in 7
Bruins over Caps in 5
Devils over Panthers in 6
Penguins over Flyers in 7

Canucks over Kings in 6
Blues over Sharks in 6
Blackhawks over Coyotes in 7
Red Wings over Predators in 7
   1423. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: April 12, 2012 at 12:18 AM (#4104681)
i really hope the rest of this series has officiating resembling tonight's. the game was physical and intense from the start, but the refs let most of the ticky-tack stuff go, and they allowed the game to be decided at even strength. there were 4 combined PPs (though danny briere nearly had to get decapitated for the flyers to get theirs), and i just did not expect this game to be officiated that loosely.

and if you want to say that the flyers benefited from briere not being called offsides on his first goal, i'll note that the pens third goal was scored after an icing was waved off at the last moment.


anyway, here's peter laviolette after that OT goal was scored. he seems excited.
   1424. zack Posted: April 12, 2012 at 10:46 AM (#4104852)
i really hope the rest of this series has officiating resembling tonight's.


Of course you do, it benefits the Flyers. Great comeback, which I missed because I had switched over to the other game. Did Jagr look horifically slow when the Flyers were the ones running things, or was he just not up to speed early? He looks incredibly slow in that gif too, heh.

I hate playoff officiating. The Detroit/Nashville game went completely off the rails in the opposite direction, with 14 power plays. Which would be fine as a signal that they were going to call these playoffs tighter than previous years, but oh whoops, they forgot to tell the other officiating teams. And you know that the rest of that series, let alone the rest of the playoffs, will not be called nearly that tight. And why pick literally the two least-penalized teams in the league as a message-sending game?
   1425. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: April 12, 2012 at 01:31 PM (#4104998)
Of course you do, it benefits the Flyers.
yeah, how novel is that? a game being played at full strength, by teams matched evenly benefits one more than the other. and that's a bad thing.


anyway, this is from the NHL:
TORONTO -- Colin Campbell says he's almost as upset as the Pittsburgh Penguins over a missed offside call that led to a goal in Wednesday's playoff opener with the Philadelphia Flyers.

The NHL's senior executive vice-president of hockey operations acknowledges that linesman Tony Sericolo erred in not whistling the play dead prior to Danny Briere's goal early in the second period.

The Flyers forward was sent in on a breakaway off a long pass from teammate Brayden Schenn that came immediately after a turnover in the neutral zone.

Campbell believes that Sericolo was in position to make the right call but thinks the quick turnaround affected his view of the play.

Briere's goal was the first for Philadelphia as it erased a three-goal deficit and beat Pittsburgh 4-3 in overtime. After the game, Penguins coach Dan Bylsma said the blown call wasn't responsible for his team losing the game.

Campbell says the incident could affect how director of officiating Terry Gregson handles staffing assignments moving forward.
   1426. Shredder Posted: April 12, 2012 at 02:52 PM (#4105084)
There were a ton of penalties in the Kings-Canucks game as well, but some of them were out of the officials' hands (two straight delay of game penalties), make up calls (one on Kesler, one on Stoll), and at least one that they couldn't let go (Bitz's dirty hit on Clifford). In true Vancouver form, the Canuck's were flopping all over the ice. Sedin and Kesler are just embarrassing when it comes to diving.

And if this is the Mike Richards we get for the playoffs, I like the Kings' chances. He was an absolute beast, and he just obliterated Alex Burrows in the last minute of the game.
   1427. zack Posted: April 12, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4105106)
yeah, how novel is that? a game being played at full strength, by teams matched evenly benefits one more than the other. and that's a bad thing.


Yeah, that's not what I meant. Pittsburgh is (probably) the better even-strength team. What benefits the Flyers is that not calling penalties allows them to slow down the Penguin's speed advantage through dubious means.
   1428. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: April 12, 2012 at 04:22 PM (#4105179)
Yeah, that's not what I meant. Pittsburgh is (probably) the better even-strength team. What benefits the Flyers is that not calling penalties allows them to slow down the Penguin's speed advantage through dubious means.
that's kind of funny, because i think i'd be accurate in saying that the penguins draw most of their penalties through dubious means. they flop and they whine, and if they played through contact with the same level of dedication that they spend trying to draw penalties, they'd be an almost unstoppable juggernaut. the penguins are insanely talented, but they're also arrogant, and they're dirty, and they play with a sense of entitlement that makes them insanely unlikable.


i want to see game 2. i think it's winnable, but i just do not have faith that the NHL will allow this series to be decided at even strength.
   1429. baudib Posted: April 12, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4105253)
I've seen dirtier good teams than the Pens, but they certainly are whiny.
   1430. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: April 13, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4106089)
I know it only happens once or twice per game, but it makes for some uncomfortable viewing whenever Quenneville rolls that fourth unit of Brunette/Mayers/Bollig with O'Donnell right behind. Again, I know they're not getting big minutes, but the construction of that line perplexes me. What exactly is its purpose? To my amateur-and-rather-untrained eye, Mayers is the only one of those three who is even cromulent. Surely Michael Frolik and his ability to shoot-pucks-from-strange-angles-but-never-actually-score(*) is more useful than either of those two, no?

(*)Seriously, a shooting percentage of under 4% as a Hawk. Isn't league average at least double that? I'd ask "WTF?", but watching him play you can see why it's so low.
   1431. Shredder Posted: April 13, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4106300)
This Pens-Flyers series is a textbook example of how things really tighten up in the playoffs. When did the conferences change character? It used to be the high flying West vs the lockdown East. It's the opposite now.
   1432. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: April 13, 2012 at 11:26 PM (#4106378)
This Pens-Flyers series is a textbook example of how things really tighten up in the playoffs. When did the conferences change character? It used to be the high flying West vs the lockdown East. It's the opposite now.
the penguins led the NHL in goals, and the flyers were 3rd. i don't think this series is representative of the conference as a whole, i think it's just that these are 2 of the best teams in the NHL, and they happen to be matched up in the first round because they were in the same division as the best goaltender in the world. if the NHL had the same seeding rules as the NBA, the penguins would be the 2 seed playing WAS and the flyers would be the 5 seed, with home ice, playing florida. this series is only happening in the first round because the NHL guarantees the top 3 seeds to the division leaders.



that was just one hell of a game. setting aside the whole winning thing, i think my 2 favorite things about this game were kris letang getting called for a dive in the 1st period, and chris kunitz scoring 2 goals but still finishing at a -5.


and just to say this, i don't quite buy that the flyers are a bad matchup for pittsburgh. with the way that pittsburgh is scoring, it's fair to say that there aren't a whole lot of teams that have the offensive firepower to keep up, but i don't think the flyers have an advantage there, so much as they're just on a (mostly) equal playing field. i don't think there's anything specific that the flyers do that gives them an exceptional advantage over pittsburgh, and i don't think this is a matchup thing so much as it's just 2 good teams playing each other in the first round.
   1433. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: April 15, 2012 at 06:17 PM (#4107272)
is there anyone who wants to defend pittsburgh after all of that ####?
   1434. baudib Posted: April 15, 2012 at 08:31 PM (#4107312)
That was pretty ridiculous. Neal tries to take out Couturier and Giroux on the same shift. Crosby doing his stupid petty stuff swiping at Bryz and then shooting Voracek's glove away. Letang beating on Timmonen, who hasn't had a fight since kindergarten.

   1435. baudib Posted: April 15, 2012 at 09:03 PM (#4107325)
That was pretty ridiculous. Neal tries to take out Couturier and Giroux on the same shift. Crosby doing his stupid petty stuff swiping at Bryz and then shooting Voracek's glove away. Letang beating on Timmonen, who hasn't had a fight since kindergarten.

   1436. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: April 15, 2012 at 09:04 PM (#4107326)
If the Pens were unpopular before the series..
   1437. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: April 15, 2012 at 11:33 PM (#4107392)
don't forget about asham cross-checking brayden schenn in the throat and then punching him in the back of the head as he laid facedown on the ice.


i was really pissed about this game for a while, but seeing something like this has calmed me down a little. they're not doing this kind of #### in a bubble anymore. this wasn't one incident, it wasn't one cheap hit. it was dirty play after dirty play, cheapshot after cheapshot, and everything that people have been saying about these penguins was on exhibit. and their fans (a good amount of them, anyway) took notice.

i really hope these last couple of days will prove to be a tipping point. years ago, even before he dressed for his first NHL game as a flyer, steve downie was suspended for 25 games because of a hit he put on dean mcammond in the preseason. at the time, i thought it was a horrendous overreach, and the suspension effectively ended downie's career as a flyer, but seeing the lack of respect that players have for each other these days, i think that's the kind of discipline the NHL needs. they need to stop pussyfooting around with these 1, 2, 3 game suspensions and just bring the hammer down in situations like these. if arron asham is out for the first 20 games next season, i don't think anyone will shed a tear. it's the same thing for boyle and weber and hagelin and carkner. there needs to be a clear message that this kind of #### is intolerable.


three things..
1, i'm gonna point out that after the hit on couturier in the 3rd period, laviolette didn't send out a goon line to exact immediate revenge on neal. he tried to get the game over without incident, and it was only after neal took a second run, this time at claude giroux, that the flyers went over the edge.

2, the penguins were taking runs at 19 and 20 year old rookies. god help the NHL when these kids grow up, because if they are having this kind of impact at that age, the sky is the limit for what they'll be able to do when they're physically mature.

and 3, sidney crosby started a lot of the #### that went down today. he wasn't just in it, he was the main antagonist. as he's lost cool, so has that whole team.
   1438. baudib Posted: April 16, 2012 at 04:35 AM (#4107464)
Yeah, there was also Adams punching Hartnell in the head when he was engaged with Crosby and then pulling his hair.

   1439. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 16, 2012 at 08:42 AM (#4107514)
Yeah, there was also Adams punching Hartnell in the head when he was engaged with Crosby and then pulling his hair.

He could have been trying to pull Hartnell's collar/shirt, but with that much hair it was probably unavoidable.

The same thing happened to Troy Polamalu in an NFL game a few years ago.
   1440. Flynn Posted: April 16, 2012 at 09:18 AM (#4107530)
Re: suspensions. Hell, just look at when they threw the book at Matt Cooke last year. He cut his penalty minutes by two-thirds.
   1441. zack Posted: April 16, 2012 at 11:08 AM (#4107627)
This weekend was basically an embarassment for the league. The only series that have not been a shitshow are Devils/Panthers and Bruins/Caps, which not incidentally are the two series with a talent gap.
   1442. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 16, 2012 at 11:30 AM (#4107672)
This weekend was basically an embarassment for the league.

And that doesn't even explicitly include the absurd, preposterous, and ridiculous 3 game suspension to Carl Hagelin, while guys like Shea Weber get slapped on the wrist for much worse conduct.

After a decent start, Brendan Shanahan has reverted to the NHL's default setting of just making #### up.
   1443. Shredder Posted: April 16, 2012 at 11:30 AM (#4107673)
This weekend was basically an embarassment for the league. The only series that have not been a shitshow are Devils/Panthers and Bruins/Caps, which not incidentally are the two series with a talent gap.
I don't know that I'd go that far. You could barely get me to watch an Eastern Conference game during the regular season, but despite the 3-0 margin, the Flyers-Pens series has been incredibly entertaining, even with the cheap stuff. The offensive skill level has been off the charts, which is what the league needs. Neal's first goal was as athletic as anything you'll see in a football or basketball game, maybe moreso.

With regard to the Asham hit, it didn't look to me like his original intent was to get Schenn in the throat. Looked like he was going high to the chest and his stick rode up. That's a pretty dangerous play to begin with, and he deserves whatever punishment he gets (and the extra punch was inexcusable), but it didn't look to me like his original intent was to injure with the cross-check. Something tells me game four will be fairly anti-climactic.

What's worse for the league are the antics of guys like Ryan Kesler, and it really pains me to say that since he's American. But he's such an obvious diver that it's embarrassing to watch. Speaking of that series, I used to think Jim Hughson and Craig Simpson were pretty decent broadcasters, but they've been pretty bad in this series. They went on for two minutes about what a great "save" Tanev had made on Dustin Brown on a shot that actually went in the net, ignoring the red light, the pointing referee, and the celebrating Kings. Then last night they wouldn't shut up about Brown's "illegal hit to the head" on Henrik Sedin, despite the fact that the hit was completely clean and not to the head. Very much hoping the Kings can close that out on Wednesday. Glad that the rest of the league is finally getting a chance to see Jonathan Quick.

And that doesn't even explicitly include the absurd, preposterous, and ridiculous 3 game suspension to Carl Hagelin, while guys like Shea Weber get slapped on the wrist for much worse conduct.
I can't condone what Weber did, but it looks like the Shanahan and the NHL have decided for the playoffs that dirty play + injury = suspension. No injury, no suspension. Not arguing that's right or wrong, and players should still try to avoid borderline hits that could lead to an injured opponent. But I think the injury angle was a much bigger factor in the lack of a suspension for Weber than the superstar angle, which everyone wanted to push.
   1444. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:15 PM (#4107758)
What's worse for the league are the antics of guys like Ryan Kesler, and it really pains me to say that since he's American. But he's such an obvious diver that it's embarrassing to watch.


Kesler's been a huge disappointment this series. I'm a huge fan of his (member of the 2004 gold-medal winning US U-20 team) and I love the way he plays the game. I've seen him dive about 4-5 times in the playoffs; I never thought this was a part of his game.

On the positive side the US desperately needs a legit goalie & top-6 forward for its WHC team, and Kesler & Cory Schneider fit the profile. Hopefully they'll be willing to dress for the US once the Canucks' season ends this Wednesday.
   1445. Justin T is going to crush some tacos Thursday Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:30 PM (#4107779)
Kesler's been a huge disappointment this series. I'm a huge fan of his member

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
   1446. Flynn Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:31 PM (#4107781)
How many HNIC Canucks games do you watch Shredder? Not having a go, but BC-born, ex-Nuck TV guy Hughson and Simpson are considered huuuuuuuge Canuck fanboys in Canada.

I can't condone what Weber did, but it looks like the Shanahan and the NHL have decided for the playoffs that dirty play + injury = suspension. No injury, no suspension. Not arguing that's right or wrong, and players should still try to avoid borderline hits that could lead to an injured opponent.


And that's the same tired reasoning that Colin Campbell used. YEah the media went with the superstar motive, but that's only because they're all angried out about the intent motive. It's just laughable in Colin Campbell and Brendan Shananan's world that if I pointed a gun at them and shot, but missed, I would not have committed a crime.
   1447. Shredder Posted: April 16, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4107804)
How many HNIC Canucks games do you watch Shredder? Not having a go, but BC-born, ex-Nuck TV guy Hughson and Simpson are considered huuuuuuuge Canuck fanboys in Canada.
That's kind of funny, because if you read Vancouver game threads, they're all convinced that Craig Simpson hates them. The other funny thing about Simpson is that he always used to get into scuffles and fights with Luc Robitaille during the late '80s/early '90s, despite neither of them being fighters. I hated Simpson on those old Oilers teams, but then again, I hated everyone on those teams until they inevitably became Kings.
   1448. Russ Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4107880)
I never thought this was a part of his game.


I have hung out with a Montreal Canadiens player a couple of times (his wife is friends with my wife from some baby gym class). The Canadiens player is the one of the nicest, most laid-back guys ever, but mention Kesler's name and he just goes bananas about how Kesler is such an annoying player. Not just the diving, but the complaining and the constant yapping... I think Kesler's the only guy I've ever heard this particular Habs player talk trash about.

Needless to say, now when I watch Kesler play, all I see are the annoying, piss-ant little #### things he does on the ice and it makes me hate him. Selection bias FTW.

   1449. Copronymus Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:18 PM (#4107899)
It's just laughable in Colin Campbell and Brendan Shananan's world that if I pointed a gun at them and shot, but missed, I would not have committed a crime.


Oh, they'd agree that you'd committed a crime and you'd get a stern lecture on how shooting at people was unacceptable and how they'd take this behavior into account if you ever did it again and then they'd fine you .03% of your yearly income. It's a crime, just not one that they actually care about that much.

Honestly, the worse crime here is that Red Wings fans' usually laughable victim complex now has an actual injustice to gorge itself on.
   1450. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: April 16, 2012 at 01:55 PM (#4107973)
Kesler's been a huge disappointment this series.

As a Kings fan, he still pretty terrifying out there when he has the puck. I don't think he's been that bad. And of course all the flopping makes it pretty easy to hate him. Jannik Hansen has been the biggest problem, he's too fast and skilled for everybody we've got.

In ten years of season tickets, last night was really the first time I felt I got a good return on that investment. It felt damn good too.
   1451. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: April 16, 2012 at 02:07 PM (#4107994)
And that's the same tired reasoning that Colin Campbell used. YEah the media went with the superstar motive, but that's only because they're all angried out about the intent motive. It's just laughable in Colin Campbell and Brendan Shananan's world that if I pointed a gun at them and shot, but missed, I would not have committed a crime.
i just cannot fathom how that system of discipline has remained intact. i do not understand why the players themselves allow it. deliberate attempts to injure add nothing to the appeal of the sport, and just as a flyers fan, seeing what happened with lindros, with primeau, and now with pronger, i do not at all understand how this kind of brazen assault can be accepted as a part of the sport.


as i've said, my view of this sport is evolving. since the lockout, what's turned me off as a fan has mostly been the uneven in-game officiating, and the fact that flyers games have been littered with PPs on both sides. the way i look at it, when a game goes back and forth between PP and PK, it's less of a sport, and more of a game, and i just do not respect the game as much as i respect the sport (if you're wondering about the difference, golf is a game, baseball is a sport).


but these headshots are on another level. the asham thing was not sport. the neal thing was not sport. the vitale hit on briere two weeks ago was not sport. these were intentional acts, outside of the flow of the game, that were meant to hurt/injure/intimidate their opponents after the outcome of the game was decided. i don't think these attacks were premeditated, but i do not think that is the standard by which they should be judged. the hits were dangerous, malicious, outside the flow of the game, and to use a word from earlier in this thread, they were avoidable. whether they were premeditated, whether they were textbook legal, is absolutely inconsequential, and i am disgusted that that seems to be the main standard by which hits are evaluated.
   1452. baudib Posted: April 16, 2012 at 02:07 PM (#4107995)
I think there's some sort of arcane formula involving reputation/history; perceived intent/premeditation; outcome that is used in determining suspensions.
   1453. ASmitty Posted: April 16, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4108015)
There's thuggery in the NHL because the NHL allows thuggery. It's far, far less common in college and international play because it's not tolerated there.

I love hockey, but the NHL's desire to satisfy the lowest common denominator of fan by allowing juvenile, dangerous violence outside the flow of play has always been off-putting to me.
   1454. baudib Posted: April 16, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4108016)
and just as a flyers fan, seeing what happened with lindros, with primeau, and now with pronger, i do not at all understand how this kind of brazen assault can be accepted as a part of the sport.


As a Flyers fan I'm fully aware of the proud Bully history of the franchise. Lindros was a borderline dirty player in a lot of respects, but "finishing" checks with a hit 2 seconds after the puck's been moved seems a lot less dangerous than the constant headshots to star players. It's not just the Flyers but also guys like Kariya and Crosby himself who have suffered devastating injuries like this, and that can't be good for the sport. The Stevens hit on Lindros in Game 7 in 2000 was the most blatant attempt to injure that I've ever seen in any sport and pretty much turned me off on the NHL for years.

It seems to me that a lot of the old-time hockey guys who were defending fighting in the NHL were right when they said that cutting out the fighting and having everyone wear a visor would lead to more dirty play and stickwork.
   1455. Shredder Posted: April 16, 2012 at 02:18 PM (#4108017)
Jannik Hansen has been the biggest problem, he's too fast and skilled for everybody we've got.
I don't know about that. The goalposts seem to have him pretty well figured out.
   1456. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: April 16, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4108030)
the way i look at it, when a game goes back and forth between PP and PK, it's less of a sport, and more of a game, and i just do not respect the game as much as i respect the sport (if you're wondering about the difference, golf is a game, baseball is a sport).

Disagree to a point. It enhances the game to me when there is some PP time on each side. The Game 7 last year when the refs just checked out and the whole game was 5-on-5 was stupid to me. Of course there was no scoring if you are going to let the defense do whatever they want. You need penalties called to have the kind of free flowing game that most people enjoy.

I think there's some sort of arcane formula involving reputation/history; perceived intent/premeditation; outcome that is used in determining suspensions.

Outcome is obviously huge in hockey. The severity of every high-sticking penalty is determine by how much blood the guy can offer up. Last night when Kopitar got nailed with a high stick I remember thinking "C'mon Anze, bleed out a little", which is an odd thing to think about your team's best player in a playoff game. It would be fun for baseball to do this. HBP brushes your jersey, you get first. Take one off your orbital socket, third. Think of all the faking Jeter could pull.

   1457. ASmitty Posted: April 16, 2012 at 02:27 PM (#4108034)
It seems to me that a lot of the old-time hockey guys who were defending fighting in the NHL were right when they said that cutting out the fighting and having everyone wear a visor would lead to more dirty play and stickwork.


Not if you actually penalize people for dirty play and stickwork.
   1458. Shredder Posted: April 16, 2012 at 02:40 PM (#4108047)
Not if you actually penalize people for dirty play and stickwork.
That's easy to say, but they already penalize guys for that. The problem isn't that referees see it and allow it to go on. The problem is that they don't see it.
   1459. ASmitty Posted: April 16, 2012 at 02:46 PM (#4108057)
That's easy to say, but they already penalize guys for that. The problem isn't that referees see it and allow it to go on. The problem is that they don't see it.


Then suspend people after the fact. Watch the Olympics or the Frozen Four. Why is there no fighting and far fewer cheap shots? Because they're not tolerated there.

Throw out five-plus game suspensions for fighting and headshots and just watch how quickly they decline in number. Hell, if you slap a guy in the helmet in the NFL you'll get ejected from the game.

Players shouldn't "police themselves," that's why you have refs and a league office.
   1460. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: April 16, 2012 at 04:45 PM (#4108151)
Players shouldn't "police themselves," that's why you have refs and a league office.
that's exactly where i'm at. there's gotta be an adult in the room to step in when the pot boils over like it has this weekend.

there's also this about yesterday's game:

PENGUINS-FLYERS: The Flyers 8-4 victory over the intra-state rival Penguins on Sunday registered a 2.3 overnight rating, up 77% compared to last year’s comparable game (Capitals-Rangers; 1.3 overnight) and making it the best overnight rating for a Conference Quarterfinal game in 11 years (4/21/01; ABC regional; 2.5), and the best for any NHL playoff game, excluding the Stanley Cup Final, in a decade (5/18/02; ABC, Avalanche-Red Wings Conference Final; 2.4).



   1461. Papa Squid Posted: April 16, 2012 at 05:03 PM (#4108171)
I used to think Jim Hughson and Craig Simpson were pretty decent broadcasters, but they've been pretty bad in this series.


I really feel that HNIC has declined in quality the past five years or so. I'm not a fan of the Hughson and Simpson tandem, and Flynn is right, they are considered huge Canucks homers. But, the absolute worst that HNIC has to offer has got to be Glenn Healy. What a pompous gasbag.
   1462. zack Posted: April 16, 2012 at 05:48 PM (#4108228)
Flyers fans complaining about dirty play is undeniably hilarious, after that particular organization nearly ruined hockey for a decade for that exact reason. Not that I disagree with any of you.

Watch the Olympics or the Frozen Four. Why is there no fighting and far fewer cheap shots? Because they're not tolerated there.


There were actually quite a few headshots in the frozen four this year. The difference is they were pretty universally and immediately whistled as 5+10 penalties.

(if you're wondering about the difference, golf is a game, baseball is a sport).


I think golf is actually a contest and a sport. Hockey is a sport and a game. Neither the PGA nor the NHL are games, they're both sport and work. Definitions! I, for example, an ass.
   1463. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 16, 2012 at 06:23 PM (#4108273)
I don't like Simpson at all, but Hughson is actually one of the absolute best announcers in the game IF the game doesn't involve the Vancouver Canucks. That's his favourite team (since he broadcast them for years), so he just can't let go of his pom-poms some times.

If it's any other teams playing, he's excellent.
He's like a polar opposite of Joe Buck doing baseball; he loves the sport he's broadcasting, his voice provides a good indicator of the excitement of the play he's describing, he is VERY knowledgeable about the game, and his voice really sounds great on TV.

Watch the Olympics or the Frozen Four. Why is there no fighting and far fewer cheap shots? Because they're not tolerated there.

Because it's one-and-done match-ups. If you made Team Canada play Team USA (or Team Russia) for 4-7 games in a row, it would probably start becoming a VERY nasty affair by the end of the second game.

As well, you're dealing with the best of the best in the Olympics. There are no 3rd line players, or players whose job it is to "set the tone".
But that's not to say it can't get out of control some times (see: 1987 World Junior Championships).
   1464. baudib Posted: April 17, 2012 at 01:08 AM (#4108599)
Unsurprisingly, I don't think the Flyers ruined hockey at all. At the height of their power, no one thought the Flyers were ruining hockey when the Flyers destroyed the Central Red Army team. When the Flyers won their first Cup, they beat the Big Bad Bruins, perhaps the only franchise/fan base that's as proud of their long history of fighting and roughhouse play as the Flyers.

And the Bullies were dethroned by the Canadiens, who set all things right in the hockey universe, and then the Flyers embarked on a 35-year period of being highly competitive but stuck playing second fiddle to dynasties in Long Island, Edmonton, Pittsburgh, New Jersey and Detroit. Not sure exactly when hockey was ruined; personally I didn't really enjoy the hockey being played between the strikes.

To me, the Broad Street Bullies died when Keenan left.
   1465. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: April 17, 2012 at 10:45 AM (#4108742)
from keith primeau on philly.com:

"I get it," Primeau was saying Monday. "It's an emotional time of the year. But I'm not one to approve some of the stupidity and label it 'good, old-time hockey.' In every one of those incidents, they clearly had a moment to think about and react to the situation. Not just in the Flyers game but some of the others. I just hope the league continues to filter out that type of behavior with proper punishment. Ultimately it's going to happen, but it continues to diminish if you take control of the situation."

"To me, at the end of the day, players need to continue to be held accountable for their actions," Primeau said. "And this is the time of the year when the league, and Brendan in particular, will earn his keep. Because if you continue to beat a certain drum, you've got to make sure that you beat that drum in these situations.
   1466. zack Posted: April 17, 2012 at 11:05 AM (#4108764)
#1464: I meant the 70's, and was being mostly facetious.

The 70's Canadiens played beautiful hockey, but the rest of the decade was a morass of dump-and-chase and brutal hits and stickwork. Not the fault of the Flyers, but they were the template. It also left a long legacy of garbage hockey in the minors. And the Candiens were only the Canadiens because they robbed the expansion teams blind.

From what I saw of pieces of the 3 games yesterday, the league told the refs to crack down on everything (except Milan Lucic, he can do whatever he wants).

Man, I went from having almost no hockey on TV last year, to finally getting an HDTV and a TV package that carried VS, and now there's 3 - 5 games on every night.
   1467. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: April 17, 2012 at 12:23 PM (#4108868)
1454: I've been under the assumption that most teams carry at least one goon, although I don't see non-Blackhawk games nearly enough to say that with any certainty. If that impression is correct, though, I don't know how the argument about needing goons to "police the game" holds water.

Actually, just a few days ago I saw this article pop up on my twitter feed. They come up with 34 true "goons" over the last four seasons. So that's somewhere around one per team.
   1468. oscar gamble's afro pick Posted: April 17, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4108920)
massive after-the-fact suspensions based on exhaustive post-game video review could completely change the culture in half a season. it's absolutely that simple, and I say this as someone who grew up in Canada and watched a lot of hockey in the 80s. all the stuff about stickwork/violence as outlet/unique culture of the game is just nonsense.

but hockey is scared that its marginal clinging to major-sport status would be destroyed without the physical violence.
   1469. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: April 17, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4108933)
not to dwell too much on this...but i'm watching the replay of sunday's first period, and the highsticking penalty on voracek was, at best, a really weak call. i don't think the stick actually went anywhere near martin's face. and when the flyers were on their first PP, matt cooke took a run at jaromir jagr's knee in open ice.

from start to finish, that really was just a despicable performance by pittsburgh.
   1470. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 17, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4108942)
Players shouldn't "police themselves," that's why you have refs and a league office.

Except the refs and league office aren't competent or unbiased enough to do it. They never have been and they never will be.

A lot of this #### happens in the playoffs because of the instigator rule; teams don't want to risk being shorthanded particularly in this lower-scoring era. I'd get rid of it. Understanding how Neanderthal this sounds, there's no getting around the fact that the best deterrent remains the threat of getting the crap kicked out of you if you get too chippy.

all the stuff about stickwork/violence as outlet/unique culture of the game is just nonsense.

Stickwork isn't. Violence is.

Guys like Matt Cooke didn't exist in the 80s.
   1471. Langer Monk Posted: April 17, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4108950)
I agree 100% on the end of the Instigator rule.

And I don't think the problem is the 'goons' so much as the "pests" - (and my own definitions may be different than others) the goons deter, the pests instigate. Without the threat of getting the crap kicked out of you legitimately (like sort of what Polak did the other night), guys are skating around throwing dirty hits and getting their sticks up into faces.

I don't think the violence in and of itself is the issue - it's the dangerous, dirty play that needs to go.

But, by and large, as a Devil fan, I'm impressed by how completely the Flyers have dismantled the psyche of the of Penguins. We all know Pittsburgh is dirty, but apparently they're soft too. My hockey history knowledge isn't terribly extensive, but I guess that's how that goes: if you are tough, you don't need dirty; if you aren't, you do. At least since the 70s.
   1472. Cabbage Posted: April 17, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4108963)
Slightly off topic question here. Mostly everyone agrees that the league should try to keep up scoring -- no one wants to see pre-lockout hockey again. So why are there never any calls to reduce the size of the goalie pads? I see all sorts of talk about banning Tampa's 1-3-1, or tinkering with the line rules, but wouldn't it be easier to just shrink the pads and protective gear?
   1473. Langer Monk Posted: April 17, 2012 at 02:02 PM (#4108974)
#1472 - Already been done. Any smaller, and goalie injuries start to go up.

If they really want to increase scoring, they should go back to full 2 minute power plays no matter how often you score, like a Major.
   1474. Flynn Posted: April 17, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4108982)
I used to be in favor of shrinking pads before I started playing goalie and watching older hockey. The shots are so much faster now that you would be endangering goalies otherwise. Even looking like sumo wrestlers I'm sure a lot of goalies pick up a couple bruises from each game.

You could do it, but you would have to give something major back to the goalies like going back to wood sticks. So if you did, what's the point of shrinking the pads? I would just increase the size of the nets.
   1475. Shredder Posted: April 17, 2012 at 02:21 PM (#4108997)
Actually, just a few days ago I saw this article pop up on my twitter feed. They come up with 34 true "goons" over the last four seasons. So that's somewhere around one per team.
I can't speak to all of the players on that list, but while Kyle Clifford will fight, he is in NO WAY a goon under any definition. Nor is Ian Laperriere. I also wouldn't put Jamal Mayers on that list. In fact, if your guy is playing in 80 or more games, he's probably not a goon. I understand why they want to come up with some statistical justification for the list, but power play time as a criterion is pretty stupid. Honestly, it's not that hard to figure out. There are goons, there are hockey players who will fight, and there's pretty much everyone else.
   1476. Gaelan Posted: April 17, 2012 at 03:05 PM (#4109025)
Removing the instigator rule is a horrible idea. The notion that fighting acts as a deterrent is absurd on its face. The only thing that acts as a deterrent are penalties and suspensions. When the refs enforce the rules, award powerplays to the aggressors in the scrums, and the league penalizes attempts to injure these things don't happen.

Moreover actually enforcing the rule of law would not minimize the speed and physicality of the game. A clean hit would remain a clean hit. It's win-win. It just takes someone in the league to have the moral courage to stand up to the general managers.
   1477. MHS Posted: April 17, 2012 at 03:53 PM (#4109065)
Playoff hockey is awesome. These series have all been great.
   1478. SouthSideRyan Posted: April 17, 2012 at 05:11 PM (#4109115)
Really, nobody has anything to say about Shaw's dartboard 3 game suspension?
   1479. zack Posted: April 17, 2012 at 06:04 PM (#4109141)
Really, nobody has anything to say about Shaw's dartboard 3 game suspension?


Are you shitting me? I've been too busy to check the news today. That's absurd, and I'm in favor of lengthy suspensions!

I can't speak to all of the players on that list, but while Kyle Clifford will fight, he is in NO WAY a goon under any definition. Nor is Ian Laperriere. I also wouldn't put Jamal Mayers on that list. In fact, if your guy is playing in 80 or more games, he's probably not a goon. I understand why they want to come up with some statistical justification for the list, but power play time as a criterion is pretty stupid. Honestly, it's not that hard to figure out. There are goons, there are hockey players who will fight, and there's pretty much everyone else.


Right. The Blackhawks have employed 2 goons this year, neither of whom is on the list, while Jamal Mayers, who isn't a goon, is. It's because they defined it as top 20 fighting majors per year, so it's a list of 'top goons' if anything. If they included PK time as well as PP time it'd remove the mistakes, but you need to get rid of the top 20 criteria if you want a list of goons, since they are by definition marginal players and often ride the AHL shuttle or the bench.
   1480. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: April 17, 2012 at 06:04 PM (#4109142)
Really, nobody has anything to say about Shaw's dartboard 3 game suspension?


####### ridiculous. Yes, Shaw skated in behind the net rather recklessly and for that deserved a minor penalty. He didn't lean in with the shoulder or leave his feet. It's a young guy playing a bit out of control (as is Shaw's wont) but no way deserving of a 3-game suspension.
   1481. Justin T is going to crush some tacos Thursday Posted: April 17, 2012 at 06:19 PM (#4109150)
Smith apparently didn't practice yesterday. Might not play tonight. So even though he stayed in the game, there is an injury factor for Shanahan to prop himself up with.

I wouldn't have a problem with three games if not for the other rulings. But Shanahan, from his comments, is clearly making his determinations off of a different standard than rational beings would. So whatever.
   1482. SouthSideRyan Posted: April 17, 2012 at 07:42 PM (#4109195)
Darren Dreger says Smith is "uninjured," and that if he was actually hurt Shaw would miss the entire series.

This is utter horse ####. The Coyotes gamed this the entire way acting like Smith couldn't practice. Shaw never should've even got the boot let alone this insanity.
   1483. Quaker Posted: April 17, 2012 at 09:32 PM (#4109274)
Don't watch a ton of hockey, so let me get this straight: The Coyote jumps into Hossa, forcing him to leave on a stretcher. He receives no penalty, but Bollig gets hit w/a 2 min minor for starting a revenge fight?
   1484. SouthSideRyan Posted: April 17, 2012 at 09:45 PM (#4109283)
Message sent Shannahan. Do whatever you want as long as it's not to a goalie.
   1485. SouthSideRyan Posted: April 17, 2012 at 09:53 PM (#4109292)
Hossa still isn't moving in the ambulance.
   1486. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 17, 2012 at 10:00 PM (#4109299)
That Torres hit isn't even hockey. Stevens started the "turn your body into a missle" technique when he cheap-shotted Lindros 12 years ago and it's now become an epidemic. You shouldn't even be allowed to touch a guy three seconds after he's passed the puck, much less intentionally ram yourself into his head at full speed.

There is no "tradition" of that kind of hit.
   1487. Quaker Posted: April 17, 2012 at 10:12 PM (#4109306)
Did he move @ all on the ice? I thought the announcers said he "didn't move much" which is not the same as not moving at all.

Hockey's kind of a ###### up sport, it seems.
   1488. zack Posted: April 17, 2012 at 10:21 PM (#4109317)
No, Raffi Torres is a ###### up human being. Actually, to be more accurate, Raffi Torres is a ###### up giant piece of ####.

####### #### #### #######.
   1489. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: April 17, 2012 at 10:31 PM (#4109322)
Last year he knocked out seabrook on a dirty hit this year he coulda ended hossa's career.
   1490. Quaker Posted: April 17, 2012 at 10:37 PM (#4109324)
Can't come up w/a combo of swear words that flows well and fits the 7-4-4-7 pattern.
   1491. DA Baracus Posted: April 17, 2012 at 10:39 PM (#4109326)
Only 1 game for Neal. Ridiculous.

Would it be taboo for me to suggest a hockey discussion site here? This is after all an OT thread. I wouldn't do such a thing for baseball.
   1492. Papa Squid Posted: April 17, 2012 at 11:09 PM (#4109338)
You shouldn't even be allowed to touch a guy three seconds after he's passed the puck, much less intentionally ram yourself into his head at full speed.


Torres will get the book thrown at him, as he should, but Bob McKenzie tweeted that it was .83 seconds from loss of puck to hit. Still a late hit by a repeat offender, but as always with these things, it's hard to count time when watching the many, many replays. It's too bad about Lindros; he was my favourite player, and should be in the Hall of Fame.
   1493. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: April 17, 2012 at 11:33 PM (#4109346)
Overtime yet again.
   1494. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: April 17, 2012 at 11:49 PM (#4109352)
Only 1 game for Neal. Ridiculous.

i hope tomorrow's game is clean. but if it's not, if pittsburgh comes out headhunting again, there's going to be a big part of me hoping that crosby's career is ended. for a league to be so indifferent to the health and well-being of its players is just astounding to me. to allow this kind of blatant headhunting, not just by a player, but by an entire team (3 different penguins wound up getting suspended for 3 separate incidents in 1 ####### game. try to explain to me how that's something less than team-sanctioned), to say that they don't believe neal intended to hit couturier despite the fact that he went after another flyer's head on the very next ####### shift is just the worst kind of mickey mouse. the league office is just so completely ####### clueless that even if someone died on the ice on national TV, their heads would still be in the ####### sand and they'd still claim it was a legal ####### hit.


the league needs to burn. and it will. and it will in a very short amount of time. the NFL is being sued by 1000+ former players on account of the league fostering an unsafe working environment. watching this postseason, seeing what's happened to lindros and primeau and pronger, there's not a doubt in my mind that there's gonna be a reckoning. one of these days the league is gonna be put to the brink over its actions these last few years.

it's a ####### disgrace.
   1495. baudib Posted: April 18, 2012 at 12:40 AM (#4109366)
The thought that someone should make a serious run at hurting Crosby did cross my mind, but I don't want that. Instead,I'd just hope that Crosby smartens up and realizes that he doesn't need to do any extracurricular b.s. and make himself any more of a target than he already is.
   1496. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: April 18, 2012 at 01:28 AM (#4109376)
Torres will get the book thrown at him, as he should, but Bob McKenzie tweeted that it was .83 seconds from loss of puck to hit. Still a late hit by a repeat offender, but as always with these things, it's hard to count time when watching the many, many replays.


It's less about *when* Torres hit Hossa and more about *how* he hit him- leaving his feet, and aiming his shoulder directly at Hossa's head.

That hit absolutely grounded tonight's game to a halt. The first ten minutes of the first period were very exciting- lots of end-to-end action, plenty of shots on goal. The action almost completely stopped after that.

This post-season has been such a shitshow.
   1497. baudib Posted: April 18, 2012 at 01:43 AM (#4109380)
The Neal stuff seems worse to me than Asham. I mean, it's a tough choice; the Asham incident was ugly and reckless and could have easily resulted in serious injury. But if intent counts, I'd say Asham's was more of a reactionary thing, going after a guy who had hit one of his teammates, whereas Neal was hellbent on just wrecking someone on that shift. FWIW, Neal also targeted the Flyers' best player who had concussion problems this year. Shanahan even noted Neal's history but he got the lighter sentence:

“While we are willing to accept Neal’s assertion that on (Couturier) play he jumped to brace himself for an unintended collision … he once again launches prior to making contact with Giroux,” Shanahan said in an explanation video released by the league. “It is also important to note that Neal was fined once and also received two warning calls from the Department of Player Safety earlier this season, in addition to having been suspended three years ago for a check from behind.”



“We’ve taken into consideration that Schenn escaped physical injury. We’ve also taken into consideration that Asham has never been fined or suspended in his 13-year NHL career.”

   1498. baudib Posted: April 18, 2012 at 02:39 AM (#4109391)
Phil Sheridan has a great column on concussions:

During the game, former Flyers captain Keith Primeau was shown on the scoreboard screen. He's probably just some old retired guy to the kids, but Primeau is 40, just three months older than Jaromir Jagr. He was 34 - the age Briere is right now - when concussions ended his brilliant career early.

...
This year's playoff tournament is devolving into a series of outrageous attacks on star players and endless debates over the inconsistency of the NHL's enforcement of its own rules.

But there is only so much that can be legislated. At some point, the players are going to have to take some responsibility for their actions and for their disrespect of opponents and the very game they are all playing.

Bear in mind, the madness Sunday was started by Sidney Crosby, who has spent most of the last year dealing with the fallout from concussions. Did he take any head shots himself? No. But as captain of the Penguins, he created an environment where his teammates felt empowered or even obligated to deliberately attempt to injure skilled Flyers.


http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20120417_Phil_Sheridan__Flyers-Penguins_series_bringing_concussion_issue_to_head.html


   1499. baudib Posted: April 18, 2012 at 06:42 AM (#4109408)
Something I want to make note of, and I think it will become even more important if the Flyers move on.

Jaromir Jagr is a future Hall of Famer whose leadership and effort have sometimes been questioned. He's been a revelation for the Flyers, more than picking up the slack from losing Richards, Carter and Lleino. (The Richards and Carter trades have been talked about ad nauseum, but it really cannot be stressed how well both deals have worked out for the Flyers).

The last two assists Jagr had in the 8-4 win were breathtaking. They were totally vintage Jagr, plays straight from his prime. One was a gorgeous cross-ice pass for a one-timer that I could have scored on; the other was an incredible individual effort to bring the puck down the wing with a defenseman draped all over him, then making a one-armed pass to Giroux's favorite scoring spot. It's just really rare to see a legendary player of his calibre, playing at his age, and completely flying under the radar.
   1500. zack Posted: April 18, 2012 at 09:58 AM (#4109498)
Would it be taboo for me to suggest a hockey discussion site here? This is after all an OT thread. I wouldn't do such a thing for baseball.


I don't think so. I could use a general-interest hockey site, for one.
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