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Of the 'big name' forwards (Kane, Hossa, Toews, Sharp), I think he'd be most likely to be moved, especially if the Hawks are in the market for a no. 2 center, top-pairing d-man, or no. 1 goalie. Plus, most of the Hawks' top young forwards seem to be wingers (Stalberg, Shaw, Saad, Morin) which makes Sharp a bit more expendable.
I don't necessarily *want* him to be traded, but I have a feeling the Hawks will make a shake up move this off-season, and Sharp's a prime candidate to go.
If the Penguins has "terrible" goaltending in these playoffs, they would have won their series.
I think 2C is really overblown. One of Kruger, Sharp, Kane, Pirri can fill-in, and Pirri, Saad and McNeil are all going to need spots soon that preclude a long-term deal. IMO, they need a PK specialist D-man and Center, and better goaltending. The goaltending is a conundrum, because they already have $4 million invested in it, it was god-awful this year, and it is very difficult to predict. I would fish for Josh Harding, and seriously consider offering sheets (heh) to Rask, Schneider, Lindback and maybe Bachman. I wanted them to try and get Ben Bishop this year, though that would be hard from a division rival. Maybe Salak can act like a human being next year.
I don't see why Sharp is on the block, they just re-signed him this season (which was iffy). I'm definitely on the Hjalmarsson Sucks bandwagon, and I don't think there's any question he's vastly over-paid.
I think Bolland is one of the core engines on the team. His salary might not match his goal scoring, but a lot of that is his extreme defensive usage. And his line was by far the best 'hawks line in this series. Speaking of which, all the Blackhawks fans who cursed Frolik and Bickell all season can now apologize.
I think the real question is, how long can you fiddle around the edges with a very good team if it's not working out? Do you play it like the Sharks/Caps, or go ####### crazy like Paul Holmgren? I very much favour the first approach because it requires you to roll fewer natural 20's, but it can make you look like a chump.
What's the point? That series is an anomaly (and was six whole games). Are you saying a .900 SV% isn't terrible? It's basically bottom-five this season.
The point is that as sv% approaches 100% shots and scoring chances cease to be events. That's the problem. It's actually a much worse problem in hockey than the "perceived" soccer problem. The better team wins in soccer a high percentage of the time precisely because generating scoring chances has very real value in soccer. By contrast, in hockey the better team in terms of generating scoring chances (in any individual game) loses quite often.
Or to say the same thing a different way, as save percentage approaches 100%, the correlation between generating scoring chances and winning diminishes, especially over the sample of a single game (or series). Since generating/limiting scoring chances is a real skill and is, presumably, the point of hockey then as save percentage approaches 100% the role of skill in an individual game is diminished. This is a bad thing. It transforms hockey into Quidditch.
I think any difference of opinion we have can be explained by the fact that I'm talking about the environment, not any particular team. Building a defense-first/win on the counter team is not a bad strategy. In fact, it's probably the best strategy for teams with fewer resources to take, and they often chose to. But if the goal is to have the best team win your tournament a reasonable percentage of the time*, then there is no reason for the league to promote an extreme low-scoring environment. And as an aside, doing nothing is promoting a low-scoring environment, because of the very reason that there is always an incentive for one of the teams to pursue it, and they will do so given the chance. That, and sports naturally tend towards the defense side over time.
I also edited my post that was the last one on the previous page a bunch of times, if you missed the edits there is some more detail now.
*how often this is is certainly debateable. I'd say you want the best team to win at least 33% of the time.
I don't think this is true, but I get your point.
Offseason Priorities:
1) Fix the special teams - There are a boatload of skilled skaters. A limp and ineffective powerplay is inexcusable, and I think it falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff. Last years team scored at a perfectly good clip, and there was not a lot of appreciable turnover. There was no plan for getting the puck into the zone, and a complete lack of off-puck movement. The issues on the kill are different, because the D-corp is not as deep as it was during the Cup run (when they had a top tier Pk). But they still have Keith, Seabrook, and more defensively outstanding forwards than they know what to do with. No reason the Hawks shouldn't be top-10 in both PP and PK
2) Add one positionally sound, stay-at-home D-man - Keith, Leddy, Oduya, and (eventually) Olsen can all get the puck up-ice. Hjalmmerson's been exposed without Campbell -- he can't move the puck and he needs a partner who can anticipate when he's going to get jumpy. I dont think you can pencil him in above the 3rd pairing, and I think he's someone who should get shopped.
3) Goaltending - Pass.
RE: The Hawks, I wasn't too upset about the loss last night. Just kind of threw up my hands and thought, 'what can you do?'. I'm a Liverpool fan, too, so I'm more than used to watching a team pepper the net with shots but not come up with the breakthrough.
Jumping to the off-season -- I was fine when the Hawks matched San Jose's offer for Hjalmarsson a few years back, but it's like he hasn't improved in the intervening time, so I'd be okay with the Hawks jettisoning him. He's like a slightly better version of Sopel -- eats pucks, but not much else. Useful bottom pairing defender, but at his current price, no thanks.
Goaltending is also a bit of a sticky situation. Not a fan of Crawford, but skeptical the Hawks would 'get it right' if they tried to devote more resources there. I'd prefer they get better forwards and D before worrying about the goalies. It just seems like too much ice time has gone to guys who are more or less replacement level (Brunette, O'Donnell, Scott).
What's the Hawks cap situation looking like? Any chance they get in on Nash?
But is it possible to be a team who is repeatedly out-shot and out-chanced, yet continues to win games? Probably not in the NHL, where the talent level between the best and worst teams (and players) isn't really all that great. Even the worst player in the NHL is pretty damned skilled. But it does remind me a competitive street hockey team I used to play in when I was in L.A. We had great goaltending and great finishers, but a slow, not particularly mobile or talented defense, though they played really well positionally. It wasn't rare for us to spend most of the period in our zone, give up a bunch of shots, get a breakout, beat one defenseman, and score on a two on one. We had a regular season game where we were out-shot 36-11 and won 5-4. We played a semi-final game that same year in which we were out-shot 40-7 and won 3-2 in overtime. I doubt you could get away with that in a real league.
Just looking at the top 10 teams in the NHL this season, #5 Nashville (2261 shots for, 2517 shots against) was the only team with fewer shots for than against over the regular season.
mike richards: 18 goals, 44 points
wayne simmonds: 28 goals, 49 points
brayden schenn: 12 golas, 18 points
jeff carter: 21 goals, 34 points
jake voracek: 18 goals: 49 points
sean couturier: 13 goals, 27 points
both simmonds and voracek outscored richards and carter while each being 4 years younger than the guy they were traded for. and on top of them, the flyers also pulled schenn (20) and couturier (19) in the deals. and on top of that, they used one of the draft picks they got in the richards trade to trade for nik grossman. and on top of that, removing carter and richards allowed claude giroux to become one of the best players in the sport.
i cannot imagine any way that those two trades could possibly have turned out better.
FWIW, there have been absolutely NO reports of the clubhouse issues in L.A. that he and Carter were blamed for in Philadelphia.
And that he's not good.
Because those issues were horseshit stories by hack writers in Philly.
Yes, I'm still pissed that Snider blew his lid and had Richards and Carter (though not as much) dealt and gave Bryz that stupid contract. The returns on the trades have been fantastic, but that doesn't mean the reasons for the trade are any less dumb.
i don't think he's a terrible person. i don't bear any ill-will towards him. i just think the organization was right to go in a different direction.
also, when the team assigns the "C" to someone this offseason, i hope they give strong consideration to danny briere. i know there's gonna be a rush to anoint claude giroux the next captain, but there's something about briere that i think makes the players around him better. he mentored claude giroux when giroux was a rookie. he mentored sean couturier this year. he was on a line with matt read and wayne simmonds most of this year, and both players had outstanding seasons. they put brayden schenn on his wing towards the end of the season, and schenn wound up breaking out with a 6 point series against pittsburgh in the first round of the playoffs.
i love claude giroux, but i think briere has done so much for this team in the last couple of seasons, and i'd be ecstatic to see him rewarded for it.
Ownership yes, management no. Holmgren had just given Richards and Carter massive contracts. Holmgren looked like someone shot his puppy when he was talking to the media about the trades. And BS he shrank from his responsibilities, he just never was a vocal guy and Pronger didn't like him.
No, that's all blown out of proportion. It's one of those things where sometimes the media picks up some stuff and they make a big deal out of it. You know what happened - sometimes we're not all best friends in the locker room. Every team is like that. When you get an older generation, like me, Chris Pronger, even Odie (Sean O'Donnell) coming in this year, you don't agree with everything the young guys are doing today. It's the same thing in the Kings locker room and it's the same thing in Washington's locker room. It just happened that it got blown out of proportion. It was nothing that big. Everybody got along pretty well as a team (in Philly). It's just that Richie doesn't say much, but what can you say? He's just the kind of guy that when the puck drops, he'll play for his team. But, he won't come up and say anything to the media. You just can't expect him to be in front of the TV all the time. He's pretty quite and reserved. Sometimes that rubbed the media a little bit of the wrong way. When they see the opportunity to put him down a little bit, they do so. - Ian Laperriere.
No, but that's where the reports came from. And I really hope you're not defending the Flyers beat writers.
Briere stunk this year. Captaincy shouldn't go hand in hand with performance, but when you have the season he did you shouldn't be rewarded with it. Give it to Timmonen, who's been an absolute beast for this organization.
But, what I want to know.. was the overtime goal by Ward actually goalie interference by Knuble?
youtube link
Yeah, he looks like Paul McCartney, who also made everyone around him better.
i'd have little problem with timonen as the next captain, but i'm not sure he has enough left in the tank to really sink his teeth into the role.
This excerpt quotes Laperriere:
At even strength Briere was one of the worst players on the Flyers during the regular season. He put up those points with favourable zone starts, with above average teammates, against below average opposition. He was, however, a real asset on the powerplay.
I created a +/- system that takes into account pts, shots for and against, zone start, quality of competition, quality of teammates, powerplay and shorthanded performance. It's only as good as the underlying data but I think it is roughly accurate. In any case the only regular Flyers who were worse than Briere on a per game basis were Schenn and Rinaldo.
Oh, and Sean Couturier is a great player. Considering he was touted as a potential #1 pick before his draft season that was an incredible steal of a draft pick. Ottawa, Winnipeg, the Islanders are all going to be kicking themselves for years.
When you are an offensive player and you are 20 points off what is expected of you, when you have your worst points per game rate in ten years... yes, you had a bad year. There is no sugar coating his season.
I'm really excited about his future. He already matches up against Malkin as well as anyone can and he's only 19. And his offense was really held down by the lack of talent on his wings the first half or so of the season. With more ice time and better linemates all year, he should have a solid offensive season too.
if the team makes a deep run through the playoffs, i'd like to see what he could do with voracek or van riemsdyk on his wing, just to get a glimpse of what he could do on a scoring line.
You have really low standards.
After Talbot and Rinaldo, Voracek is his most common 5 on 5 linemate.
Agreed. I don't think he'll be a 70 point guy, but 50? Yeah, that's absolutely possible in a couple of years.
anyway, the flyers drew the devils in round 2, with home ice advantage. i'd really like to see a sweep here. i know that i should probably have more respect for them, but i really want to see them light up brodeur like they lit up fleury.
this also seems to set the flyers up to run through 3 divisional opponents to get to the stanley cup finals. i'm really pretty okay with that, but i also would have been okay if they had drawn the bruins or rangers in round 2. after the way they beat the penguins in round 1, i just don't think there's a team they couldn't beat.
Blood feud? Yup, you have really low standards, and apparently thin skin. You said a guy who had his worst season in ten years had a "solid" season. Don't be mad at me if you can't accept criticism of that.
The Rangers, who have owned them all season long. So glad they don't have to face them this round. They beat the Penguins the same way they did during the regular season (where they also went 4-2 with an OT win), I don't see what's dramatically changed for the better now that the playoffs have arrived.
Overall, pretty decent game for the Flyers. They started out terribly, looked totally out of it. Devils were beating them to pucks and were well-positioned in the first period. Then the Flyers just steamrolled them. When they get going, the Flyers just roll their lines and come in waves and can really dominate the puck for long periods of time. Not fantastic goaltending by either side but Brodeur kept the Devils in it and Bryz gave up a really brutal goal against Sykora.
With all the kids on the team, no one talks about Eric Wellwood but he makes things happen. Also, Jakub Voracek had an amazing outlet pass for the Flyers' first goal.
What's left to say about Giroux really? He looked like Brett Freakin' Hull on that slapshot he ripped into the upper-corner.
FWIW, there have been absolutely NO reports of the clubhouse issues in L.A. that he and Carter were blamed for in Philadelphia.because Coke is acceptable social norm in morally-bankrupt California
that line with him, briere and voracek could really be something special.
I work with a Devils fan who missed most of the game. I told him the Devils totally dominated the first, but the Flyers got rolling and it doesn't appear that the Devils' D can handle the Flyers' speed. The depth on this team in its forwards is really stupendous, especially with JVR back and guys like Wellwood flying around the ice.
There are whispers on Devils chats that Kovalchuk may be hurting, which would explain his no-show in Game 1.
I'd also be enjoying the Blues getting owned a lot more if King hadn't tried to kill Pietrangelo. It takes a lot of the joy out of winning when your game plan is to maim the other team's best player.
This is the second greatest locker room quote of all time, right behind Ichiro's "zeal of a challenger" line.
"When you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you’re getting your ass hammered by guys — there’s no better feeling than to have that done." Matt Stairs
Anyway, Kings fans remember 1998. Karma has a long memory.
i really hope this winds up being the matchup, though. win or lose, that series would be tremendous.
I would really not enjoy Richards, Carter and Williams against the Flyers in the Finals. I would really not enjoy the Kings in the Finals period though.
The Caps/Rags game wasn't any better. The color guy added no value whatsoever. He just repeated what was being replayed with no actual insight or analysis.
But Hayward is on a whole 'nother level of suck. He's just a bad commentator to begin with. He's probably worse in the booth than he was on the ice, if that's possible. And he HATES the Kings, and especially Dustin Brown. If you think he was a homer for the Blues last night, you should hear him do a Kings/Ducks game. He and Ahlers almost make Hawk Harrelson sound impartial. The only good thing about having him between the glass is the potential that he'll get brained on a puck out of play.
FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU
I think it'd be worse to see Hitchcock win it.
I think it would be worse to see John Stevens win it.
Kovalchuk out with a back injury, it was pretty obvious he wasn't himself in Game 1. Huge break.
By that I mean, is he the best player to be be born in, only eligible for, and to reside in (at least up to high school-ish) a country other than Canada/US/Russia/Sweden/Finland/CZR/Slovakia? So excluding guys who moved to Canada when they were two, played for the Canadian national team, etc.
I think Vanek is the closest competition and I'd much rather have Kopitar. Was Ken Hodge actually English?
I don't hold anything against them either. I hated those trades, still do. That's why I would not enjoy facing them in the Finals--every time they scored, killed a penalty, whatever, it would be a reminder of what was and could have been. Or to put it another way, if they went to the Finals and lost to the Kings, that would sting more than losing to any other team.
Does Taiwan count? :)
I'm going to speculate and say that alcohol may be involved.
Well he moved to Sweden when he was 17, but yeah, he might be. Everyone else better than him not from those countries moved to one of those countries as a small child.
He didn't grow up there though, which was zack's question. If you go only by birthplace Kopitar's not even the best Slovenian.
Wow. The NHL is really trying to save the Coyotes, huh.
Now that I think about it, I kind of want the Coyotes to win and then immediately move to Quebec, just for the cosmic symmetry with the Avalanche.
Couldn't clear the zone, kept turning it over, couldn't sustain any offense. Terrible.
Game was very reminiscent of 1990s Devils-Flyers, which didn't end well for the Flyers.
Don't just stand there, Danny
Whoops, sorry, dyslexic moment there. I misread Slovakia. Nothing to see here, move along...
And sorry, St. Louis. You're just not good enough.
USA beat Canada 5-4 at the World Hockey Championships today. Hell yeah!
And they looked good too! They controlled possession for most of the game and had the better scoring chances. Jack Johnson is probably not a very good NHL d-man, but I love watching him play for the US.
It’s amazing to me how badly Lavy is being outcoached by DeBoer. 2 days off and he still has no idea how to deal with the swarm?
Greatest European skater? Or do you consider the Czech Republic central Europe?
two things,
1, zubrus knew giroux was there. one of the hallmarks of those stevens checks (and the torres hit on hossa,a nd the vitale hit on briere, and the neal runs at couturier and giroux) was one player taking a run at another whose head was down and who had no idea that contact was coming. i don't think that applies to the giroux hit
and 2, giroux was skating parallel to zubrus at the time of the hit. the other hallmark of the above hits was that the offender went after a player whose momentum was going in the opposite way. those collisions carry much, much more force than what giroux did to zubrus.
and 3, i could be mistaken, but i believe that zubrus was grinning ear to ear when he got up off the ice after the hit and skated back to the bench. the hit occurred with 4 seconds left in the 2nd period, so it's not like he came right back onto the ice, but he did take his next shift just 2 minutes into the 3rd period. he didn't miss a single second of gametime.
anyway, giroux did target the head, but the potential to injure was, i think, virtually non-existent.
Poland's Mariusz Czerkawski spent 12 years in the NHL, scoring 215 goals in 745 games, including two 30+ goal seasons.
Latvia's Arturs Irbe had a pretty long NHL career, though it wasn't necessarily a great career (save percentage hovering around .900)
How the hell is Satan only 37? And the Blackhawks should bring Lil' Hossa over.
I was blown away when I saw Peter Nedved's name of the Czech Republic's roster.
There's a whole bunch of former Hawks/Hawk prospects at the WHCs this year. It's a nice trip down memory lane:
- Cristobal Huet
- Milan Bartovic
- Yorick Treille
- Lasse Kukkonen
- Petri Kontiola
- Michal Handzus
- Tomas Kopecky
But after the Torres hit they had to really crack down/overreact on headshots.
STEAGLES, I don't disagree with anything you said too much but in general, I think we should refer to nuclear elbows/shoulders to the head as Scott Stevensing.
I'm not Barry Melrose but the Flyers are having problems in all three zones and it speaks to the lack of composure, patience and unwillingness to fight through and win the battles along the boards:
1. The Flyers are having an awful time on any kind of breakout, which appears to be mostly the result of defensemen panicking. Maybe it's because they're being manhandled by the Devils' forecheck, but the crisp outlet passes aren't there. It's hard to see on TV sometimes but I suspect that the forwards not being in position to take an outlet pass has something to do with this, as we're seeing a lot of D-to-D passes that end up with a defenseman curling back or panicking and sending an ill-advised pass into the neutral zone.
2. This Devils team is way more aggressive than its successful predecessors, being a team that lives on its forecheck. But they still play positionally sound hockey and don't give an inch of space in the neutral zone. As a result the Flyers are not gaining the offensive zone with any speed.
3. Frustrated by their inability to win battles in deep, the Flyers are getting way too fancy. There was a play in Game 4 where Danny Briere (who's had an awful series defensively) got about 3 feet past the blue line and made an ill-advised drop pass to...no one. That predictably led to a rush the other way.
4. Devils' D are swallowing up Flyers forwards and eliminating any threats immediately, and clearing the puck much more efficiently than the Flyers.
5. This is about as fast a Flyers team as I have ever seen, but the Devils are getting to every loose puck. Is it effort? Smarts? Superior skill? I can't explain it.
Also, beat LA. We've got that chant down cold.
I've got to go to work, but here's my short answer: Discipline and consistent effort.
Devils did struggle against the Panthers, but only on the PK. 5-on-5 they were superior (although not as striking as in this series). The Devils aren't engaging in after the whistle type stuff. The Devils are faster and bigger than most people realize. They are also one of the best teams in the league on the cycle.
There was a week in March where the Devils beat the Rangers 4-1, Isles 5-1, Isles 2-1, and Flyers 4-1 (Tuesday thru Sunday). They played like this. They haven't been able to match that until this series. It took some time for them to understand this is what DeBoer wants the team to play like. They're healthy and executing.
One other other thing - After last season, and after finally getting out of round 1, they seem to be playing almost without the burden of pressure. It's unmeasurable, to be sure, but they talk about it, and it looks like it.
One other other other thing - This is largely the team that nearly won 30 games in the 2nd half of last season after the disastrous 1st half. Add-in a couple talented rookies, and a healthy Parise. Oh, and that Zidlicky guy, he's playing pretty well.
Here's hoping Zach's lurking and this makes him decide to stay.
I think he's got better examples in a long-term commitment that Brodeur or Elias can give him; but sure.
If he's a Devil for the next 8-10 years, the franchise will be his. Kovy may be the 'star' but Parise's this club's engine.
Not a good sign.
As Shanahan pointed out, he was obvious upset by the non-call in the offensive end, and just seemed to looking to dish out punishment as a release for his pent-up anger.
I used to see this happen all the time when I played/reffed soccer. A player would be wronged, jump up mad at the ref for not calling anything, and then commit a grievous foul on the next poor opponent that got near him (with or without the ball).
It was a late hit (how many strides after releasing the puck did Zubrus take, 2? 3?), it was targeted for the head (he could have just crushed him against the glass with his shoulder, but deliberately aimed his shoulder at Zubrus' chin), and it was obvious from the video that it was a "retaliation" (for the non-call) and not part of the play.
Can't look at this as a down year as the Flyers were essentially rebuilding. The Flyers are really young and deep and talented and should get better in the years to come.
Disappointing as this seems like a lost opportunity. Not that the Rangers would have been an easy series, but the Western Conference looks softer than its been in a while. Disappointing that Jagr won't win a Cup in Orange and Black. Jagr was my favorite non-Flyer of that great group of young stars that came up around 1990 that included Eric Lindros as well as the greatest group of American skaters .
D Coburn L
D Grossmann L
D Carle L
D Timonen L
D Gustafsson L
D Lilja L
D Meszaros L
In addition, Voracek and Jagr are RWs who shoot L. Two of the Flyers' best defensive forwards, Couturier and Talbot, are L. So if the Devils employ a classic Left-Wing Lock (I'm not actually sharp enough to figure this out unless I'm looking for it), they will generally be forechecking against 2 Flyers on their backhand along the left-hand boards. Two of the Devils' best players are Elias and Parise, who are left-handed shooters playing left wing.
Pronger, incidentally, is a L. It might help if the Flyers add a couple of R shots to their D.
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