Suter would obviously be great, but they'll probably do something really dumb like re-sign Carle. Also signing Suter would mean a bit of a shake up. The JVR, Coburn and Grossman extensions put another $7M on the cap, plus Voracek is going to get a raise. They don't have that cap space.

####### this board keeps eating my posts.

Short version, there's nothing to feel bad about losing to the Devils, they're a solid team, especially when Brodeur is playing well. I'm guessing the Pitt series took a lot out of the Flyers, and the crap that works against the Pens (playing the meta-game, scoring everytime you put the puck on net) doesn't work against the Devils. They just needed the passing game (which they are entirely capable of) working to burn the Devils forecheck, but there was no crispness at all for any of the passes I saw.

So what should the Flyers do in the offseason? Ryan Suter?

I hear there are a couple of promising centers the Kings are looking to move...

A lot of Blackhawks fans want Suter too, and ignoring the fact that it is impossible without moving several pieces, he is going to cost a lot of money for a long time. Defensemen are getting paid lately.

What's wrong with Carle? I wouldn't be surprised if the 'hawks are looking at him.

Just looking at his boxcars I'm guessing he's a second-assist vulture.

Carle is a polarizing figure, what with the stat guys getting all crazy for his Corsi and declaring him a cheap, Suter-lite, whereas a huge chunk of the fan base sees him as a turnover machine who doesn't hit anybody.

He's probably actually a decent fourth-fifth defenseman on a good team who can play the PP and give you minutes but turns into a pumpkin if you push him hard or end up with him on the ice vs. the top lines in the league.

He's due for a salary bump and with the Flyers facing cap problems, he's a guy who might not be coming back.

there's nothing to feel bad about losing to the Devils, they're a solid team, especially when Brodeur is playing well.

The Devils are certainly a good enough team, but it feels extremely frustrating because we felt like the Flyers were more talented and the fact is, Marty gave every indication of being beatable if the Flyers could ever sustain any pressure against him.

What's wrong with Carle?

Everything, he has negative defensive value. He consistently turns the puck over under pressure, does not take a hit, does not play the body, has poor positioning, poor instincts, pinches far too much... he does everything you want a defenseman to do defensively at a poor or worse level. Offensively he makes nice passes and has a decent but not great shot, but he's not a power play defenseman but he's not a PP QB.

All sorts of strange things happening in Chicago. First, the rumor was that Q might leave for Montreal and the Hawks would stick to and unwritten agreement they'd had to promote assistant Mike Haviland. At the same time, everyone presumed that Mike Kitchen would be let go because the special teams were so lousy. Stan Bowman comes out and says they wont be firing Q, but is vague enough that it's assumed he would let Q go. Then out of left field, Q says he's staying and Haviland gets fired.

stat guys getting all crazy for his Corsi

I just want to add here how much I hate the reliance on this 'stat' as an indicator of anything important.

Your move, Obama.

Corsi's a thing? I figured it was some autocorrect. Baudib in was on his phone, sometime in the past had typed something about Jim Corsi and saved his last name as a word. And he wanted to say something different here that his device changed to Corsi.

But that's not what happened? Trippy.

At first I thought "that's pretty neat, some guy has the same name as Putin." Then he started "skating."

Obama at basketball >>> Putin at hockey. Not even close.

I just want to add here how much I hate the reliance on this 'stat' as an indicator of anything important.

I have no idea why stat is in quotes, since it is clearly a statistic. Like any statistic, it tells you exactly what it tells you. Deriving meaning from that requires context.

I'd be really happy to see Carle sent packing, problem is the Flyers really need 3 defensemen. One to replace Pronger, one to replace Carle and probably one to replace Timonen.

Grossmann/Coburn are a solid 2nd pairing IMO. Coburn was playing huge minutes and that's probably not ideal. Gustafsson and Bourdon showed some promise and are young, but they and Mez and Lilja are really 4-5-6 type D guys. Kubina is a big, rough guy who can shoot but has serious defiencies. Timonen is beloved but is 37 and wearing down more and more every year. Realistically I don't think he should be counted on for more than 12 minutes a game at this point.

Signing Suter is going to be tough for cap reasons as well as the fact that a lot of good teams are going to be after him.

Homer may have to do some magic and try to pull off a Recchi for LeClair/Desjardins deal.

I have a barely used Supernintendo Hjalmarsson you guys can have for the low, low price of a 1st. Or a 2nd. 3rd?

I'd be really happy to see Carle sent packing, problem is the Flyers really need 3 defensemen. One to replace Pronger, one to replace Carle and probably one to replace Timonen.

Replace Timonen? He's not going anywhere. 12 minutes a game is less than Lilja got. Timonen isn't that bad.

Timonen, Coburn, Mezsaros, Grossman, Gustafsson and Lilja are under contract next year. They only "need" one defenseman. Two would be nice but then you'd have to carry 8 or 7 and Lilja's cap hit.

This is the second year in a row the Flyers got completely demolished in the second round by a team that basically kept them pinned in the defensive zone most of the game. Last year, the goaltenders took the blame and you could say the Bruins were just the better team. This year, the Flyers were clearly better (IMO) on paper than the Devils, who exploited their weakness in their own zone, as did the Rangers, who beat them 6-0. I think something of an overhaul is in order and if not, perhaps an examination of the coaching staff.

The Bruins were the superior team all season long last year. The Flyers played like crap against them and Laviolette got outcoached, but there wasn't much shame in losing to them.

The Devils were the inferior team all season long this year, losing to them was just awful. I'm sure the front office will do something and as usual it'll be the right thing to do in the worst possible way making them not appreciably better than they were before.

The Devils were the inferior team all season long this year, losing to them was just awful.

I don't see it. The ended up with the same number of points, although the Flyers had more real wins.

They have almost identical possession numbers, the Flyers generate more shots but the Devils allow fewer.

The Flyers had a great power play, but the Devils had a great penalty kill and are routinely among the teams with the fewest times shorthanded.
Vice-versa should have favored the Flyers, except Bryz was terrible on the PK.

Goaltending was a wash, except Brodeur was great on the PK and Bryz was terrible. Hedberg was better than Bobrovsky.

I picked the Flyers to win, but they were only slim favorites, not overwhelming.

They even split the season series.

I'm sure the front office will do something and as usual it'll be the right thing to do in the worst possible way making them not appreciably better than they were before.

I'll go to my grave cursing Bobby Clarke for not winning a Cup in the Lindros era.

I feel for the guy who wrote this blog, which nicely sums up the past 4-to-37 years of following this team. I reached the same point this guy is at now in 2000, and spent 11 years oscillating between "meh" and open contempt.

I'll admit I got suckered in this year. I feel better about Homer having the cojones to do what's needed than Clarke.

How do you feel about JVR?

I don't see it. The ended up with the same number of points, although the Flyers had more real wins.

They have almost identical possession numbers, the Flyers generate more shots but the Devils allow fewer.

The Flyers had a great power play, but the Devils had a great penalty kill and are routinely among the teams with the fewest times shorthanded.
Vice-versa should have favored the Flyers, except Bryz was terrible on the PK.

Goaltending was a wash, except Brodeur was great on the PK and Bryz was terrible. Hedberg was better than Bobrovsky.

I picked the Flyers to win, but they were only slim favorites, not overwhelming.

They even split the season series.

The Devils are complete shite, OK?

No, look, the Devils are fine. They are not as good as the Bruins were last year, even if they go on to win the Cup, which they just might. Still, even if you view it as an evenly matched series at worse, playing in a fashion that makes the series look like a roughly 250-minute power play indicates some sort of serious problem that goes beyond the names on the back of the jerseys.

I don't see it.

I'm incredibly biased when it comes to the Devils (and the Penguins).

They weren't the better team. The Bruins were clearly the better team the year before. We can at least agree on that.

EDIT: Gag me with a fork, Holmgren wants to re-sign Carle.

Hey, at least you guys didn't lose to a team that only exists because your team supports them financially!

I'm not sure which is more annoying: the Coyotes style of play, or the fact that every game they win this postseason is another $21,000 in Raffi Torres' checking account.

I don't want the Coyotes to win simply because Phoenix winning the Cup would pretty much guarantee that the NHL does everything it can to keep that financial black hole of a team in Glendale. So, go Kings!

I'm going to root for the Kings and I think they are probably going to win.

Kings are very talented and have a goalie who's possibly better than King Henrik. The Rangers are very good but going to the wire in your first two series vs. the No. 7 and 8 seeds doesn't seem to be the formula for winning the Cup.

If I could go back a year in time, I'd still do the Richards trades but I'd ask for Slava Voynov instead of Simmonds.

In that other tournament that no one cares about news, the US managed to not #### the bed and are seeded 2nd in their group for the play-off.

They play Suomi in the first round tomorrow (who they beat 5-0 in the first round, I have no idea why they're not cross-seeding the elimination, but that was a game that got out of hand and I don't think a good measure of the Finns). If they win that game, most likely Russia in the semi-final (as they are playing The Norge). Which they will probably lose.

This tournament is marginaly more important than other World Championships as it will be used for some of the seeding for Sochi, though it looks like the US is guaranteed qualification at this point, and is far enough behind to the other top teams that they are unlikely to move up much.

This is a fine hockey game.

This is a fine hockey game.

Whew. Sure was. Now I can go up to see Game 3 and enjoy it with a little less stress than being in a 0-2 hole.

I feel like the Kings are far and away the best team I've seen in the playoffs.

-- Dramatic improvement after Sutter became coach, with noted improvement in possession stats
-- Richards for Johnson was a steal, mostly because Richards was dogging it
-- Slava Voynov is a legit star who wasn't playing before the trade, so the Kings improved two spots

You mean Carter. And also because Jack Johnson is a god-awful defenseman. Johnson to Voynov is an enormous upgrade at the back.

Nolan and King were also late additions to the team. They're not world-class players or anything, but they're part of what make that Kings forecheck machine tick.

These are not October's Kings.

Their play in the first forty feet and last forty feet of the ice has been tremendous. Their forecheck and their breakouts have really been the key to their success. I'm just waiting for the bottom to fall out. They had a long winning streak during the regular season, but they sure didn't look this good during that streak.

With regard to King, Nolan, and Voynov, Sutter took a trip to Manchester (NH) with Dean Lombardi to scout the Monarchs. This was after he was named the coach, but before he went behind the bench. It wasn't long after that they called up King and Nolan, ditched Ethan Moreau and Trent Hunter, and traded Johnson a short time later. I don't think they wanted to trade JJ because of his upside as well as his devotion to the team (he negotiated his own deal, which made him look really good in light of Doughty's hold out). But while they were forced by the lack of offense, they also knew they had Voynov ready to go. That road trip for Lombardi and Sutter may have been the Kings' most important road trip of the season. And Penner seems just far enough removed from his divorce to get his focus back on hockey.

And Dave Tippett whines about diving. The guy who coaches Mike Smith is complaining that other teams "embellish". I had a lot of respect for Dave Tippett when he was a Kings coach, but the way he's let his players cheap shot the Kings, dive all over the ice, then complain about "embellishment" is pretty pathetic.

The Globe and Mail had a really good interview with Scotty Bowman on how the defenses have now adjusted to the post-lockout rule changes. Basically, he is saying that because there is more room to operate deep in the zone, teams are collapsing around the net rather than let forwards outman them or charge in from the boards with a full head of steam.

Thus, they have conceded the shots from the point. What happens then is you have insane traffic in front of the net and with the superior equipment of the modern game, more players are willing to block shots.

Thus, forwards are not positioned near the blue line in order to receive breakout passes.

The way to get more offense into the game is to find a way to force forwards to cover the point shot, but he has no idea how to do it.

And Dave Tippett whines about diving. The guy who coaches Mike Smith is complaining that other teams "embellish". I had a lot of respect for Dave Tippett when he was a Kings coach, but the way he's let his players cheap shot the Kings, dive all over the ice, then complain about "embellishment" is pretty pathetic.

Well it's not like he's wrong. And he did admit his team did it too.

The way to get more offense into the game is to find a way to force forwards to cover the point shot, but he has no idea how to do it.

Bigger ice, but that's a non-starter. Call obstruction penalties once and awhile, and the defending team won't be able to set up their collapsed structure as often. Call cross-checking penalties on defensemen in the slot. Make goalies less effective and it will be too costly to allow all point shots. Really anything that boosts the transition game is what hockey needs to focus on, that is where it shines relative to other possession sports.

Some trivial Flyers offseason news:

-- Flyers fired AHL affiliate coach Joe Paterson. The Phantoms don't really have much talent, and the Flyers really just use them to churn out fourth-liners in case of injury. It seems a minor injustice considering how well prepared guys like Bourdon, Gustafsson and Wellwood once called up to the big leagues.

-- Assistant coach Craig Berube is a candidate for the Washington Capitals head coaching job.

-- Claude Giroux is battling Evgeni Malkin for the cover of NHL 13.

LET'S GO DEVILS!

No matter who wins Devils-Rangers, each finals team will have a player from western NY. If the Rags win, both captains will be from western NY.

#### you Ontario!

No matter who wins, an American will be presented with the Stanley Cup.

May as well post this before the series starts:

I'm not usually a believer in the "special teams will decide the series" line of thought, but it will be interesting to watch when the Devils are on the PP (I don't expect the Kings to score unless the Devils are down to three skaters). They scored some pretty scary looking goals against the Rags, who were a good PK team in the regular season. But the Kings PK has been dominant over the last three months or so. They've scored more shorthanded goals than they've allowed PP goals in the playoffs, and with the Devils playing a forward on the point, it should be fun to watch.

The Devils have more high end offensive talent, but the Kings have more skill on the second line. For all the hype about the Devils rolling four lines, their fourth line doesn't get any more ice time than the Kings fourth line, which was dominant in the first two series (especially against Vancouver). I also wouldn't be fooled by the Kings low offensive output in the regular season. They were even with the Devils in goals scored over the last month and a half of the season, which is more reflective of the team they took into the playoffs (Carter, Voynov, King, Nolan, and Sutter).

On defense, I don't think it's really all that close. The Devils play a guy for 15 minutes per game who couldn't crack the Kings lineup for the last five years, and when he did it was as a forward. I'm not sure there's one player on the Devils defense that I would clearly take ahead of any of the Kings' top six. They gave up thirty fewer goals than the Devils during the regular season, and they had three players who scored more points than the Devils top scoring defensman (not including Jack Johnson, and Voynov went over 20 points in about 50 games). The Devils have a tremendous forecheck, but I don't think they've played a defense that moves the puck out of their zone as well as the Kings. Plus, Doughty and Willie Mitchell are probably playing the best hockey of their careers right now.

I think the Kings have the edge, but not by so much that it's going to be a walk. If the Kings win it will take six or seven games. The Devils could romp if they win the first two at home. The Kings haven't really faced any adversity yet, so if they get down in the series, they may have a hard time coming back.

Both teams are HUGE possession teams, so no surprise they met in the Finals, really.

I think the Kings will win fairly easily, i.e., 5 or 6 games.

I, for one, am happy that Carter has changed the narrative about Jeff Carter.

Hopefully that ought to just about do it. Jonathan Quick has been the headline maker for much of this run, but I really hope people that don't get a chance to see the West all that much are finally starting to realize just how good Anze Kopitar is. The guy just has the ability to dominate every inch of the ice. Quick will probably win the Conn Smythe, but Kopitar is their most important player by far, and if I had a vote, it would go to him.

The Devils forecheck impressed me more than I expected it to. Their fourth line was really as advertised. Kovalchuk is clearly not right, which is too bad, but these teams were largely major injury free for the most part. I just think this is the best team the Devils have seen when it comes to moving the puck on the back end.

Hopefully the Philly fans here can be happy for Carter, Richards, and Gagne. I know emotions are mixed among that fanbase, especially for Carter, and I think ultimately the Flyers will be very happy with what they got in return, but those guys were the right guys for the Kings at the right time.

I really hope people that don't get a chance to see the West all that much are finally starting to realize just how good Anze Kopitar is. The guy just has the ability to dominate every inch of the ice.

Count me as one of those. I knew he was very good but he really does control the game in a way I didn't appreciate prior to the last few nights.

i'm pretty okay with carter and richards winning the cup. they wouldn't have done it here, and the flyers got better by making those trades, so #### it if i'm gonna hold it against them that they found themselves a soft landing spot on their way out.



and in flyers news (courtesy of howard eskin, who, if you don't know, is the inspiration for the burger king that you see in their commercials), there are accusations that james van riemsdyk has been dragging his feet before getting surgery to repair a torn labrum in his hip, so as to avoid getting traded this offseason. in addition, there were accusations that he exaggerated the severity of his foot issues around this past seasons' trade deadline, for the same reason.

since that was reported, paul holmgren has gone on the record as saying that the reason JVR hasn't had surgery yet was because he's fighting off an infection in his foot.


i'm not the kind of person who would accuse a player of faking an injury, but this sounds fairly plausible to me. maybe i just have a low opinion of van riemsdyk after he sojourned at UNH, but i really would not at all be surprised if this was the case.

Do we know where Shredder is? I'm guessing he's passed out after four or five bottles of champagne. I want to update that Dan Werr Shredder parody, replacing Joey Cora with Marty McSorley.

Do we know where Shredder is? I'm guessing he's passed out after four or five bottles of champagne.

Just one small one, which I popped open and sprayed all over the sidewalk in front of my apartment. I did, however, pop open a bottle of this, and a couple other 9% beers before passing out and sleeping through my alarm this morning. I'm still in a bit of a state of shock. I honestly never thought I'd see this.

Good for you Shredder! Must be a great feeling.

Hopefully the Philly fans here can be happy for Carter, Richards, and Gagne.

Thrilled for them. Snider can continue to go #### himself for trading them away.

Anyone know if there was a big cheer out of Chavez Ravine when it was announced the Kings had won the Cup (assuming it was announced; perhaps many folks were listening to it on the radio)? I'm sure most Dodgers fans loved it, maybe some Angels fans, too (though most of them probably root for the Ducks).

maybe some Angels fans, too (though most of them probably root for the Ducks).

I think it's kind of mixed. Since the Kings have been around for so long, there are long time fans that root for both the Angels and the Kings. Some of the OC people may have migrated to the Ducks, but I used to play street hockey in a big league in Garden Grove (near Anaheim) and most of the people who played out there were Kings fans.

Good for you Shredder! Must be a great feeling.

Thanks. Not gonna get a lot of work done today. Best sports feeling I've had since around October of 2002.

Anyone know if there was a big cheer out of Chavez Ravine when it was announced the Kings had won the Cup (assuming it was announced; perhaps many folks were listening to it on the radio)? I'm sure most Dodgers fans loved it, maybe some Angels fans, too (though most of them probably root for the Ducks).

Yes. They showed the fan reaction during this morning's sports broadcast on TSN (Canadian sports network).
They showed the handshakes and celebrations on the jumbotron and congratulated Kings on winning.

The TSN anchor said "We showed that because we love to hear Vin Scully talk about hockey. That's so cool!"

That's 17 different franchises that have won a Stanley Cup since Toronto last won one.
Also, that's 9 different teams in a row winning the Stanley Cup.

The only team with as long a SC drought as Toronto is St. Louis (both haven't won since 67/68 expansion).
At least the Blues have made it to the finals.
As have the Capitals, Sabres, and Canucks (the only other pre-1980 expansion teams not to win).

Teams not making it to the Stanley Cup Finals since 1967/68 expansion:

Toronto Maple Leafs (Original Six)
Winnipeg Jets/Phoenix Coyotes (joined 1979)
Columbus Blue Jackets (joined 2000)
Atlanta Thrashers/Winnipeg Jets (joined 1999)
Nashville Predators (joined 1998)
Minnesota Wild (joined 2000)
San Jose Sharks (joined 1991)

As I said before, I'm really happy that Carter shook his choker label and maybe it will give someone like Homer pause when evaluating a guy based on a few playoff series, i.e. trading Carter and giving JVR a big contract. But I'm decidedly on the STEAGLES side of things and totally happy with the results of the trades.

I'm incredibly happy that Simon Gagne and Ron Hextall won a Cup! And Shredder.

I was thinking about this when I saw the picture of Brown's kids drinking chocolate milk out of the cup (awesome):

There's a superstition that you don't touch the cup until you win it. There have been 10 father-son pairs that have won cups, but a lot of those are as coaches or executives so I'm not sure they count.

-How old is the superstition?
-When did they start giving everybody a day with the cup?

And my actual question: do we know of anyone who touched the cup as a small child (when their parent or older brother won it) and later won it themselves as an adult?

When my beer team won the Wednesday night E-division championship last summer, I got our mini Stanley Cup for a weekend. I ate sushi out of there, chicken mcnuggets, ice cream.

So three days later and I pretty much have a permanent smile on my face. Thanks to the miracle of DVRs and internet video, I don't think it's going to go away for a while. Also, this picture is pretty awesome (noAlbrighto). And thanks, baudib.

Snider can continue to go #### himself for trading them away.

i just don't get that. richards and carter were, at best, the 5th and 6th best players on the kings in these playoffs. they were a combined +1 on a team that was +27. by trading them for schenn, couturier, simmonds, and voracek (and cap room that allowed them to sign ilya bryzgalov and a draft pick that turned into nik grossman), the flyers got younger, faster, deeper, and better.


i do not understand how there can be any animosity at all towards the flyers organization over these moves.

We've been over this and I have no interest in regurgitating the same argument over and over with you.

Also, this picture is pretty awesome (noAlbrighto).

Yes it is, and I'm not a fan of any of those 3 teams. Has anyone seen a bigger version anywhere?

Yes it is, and I'm not a fan of any of those 3 teams. Has anyone seen a bigger version anywhere?

THis one is huge.

Thanks. Is Hank Conger trolling the Kings or just blissfully unaware?

Edit: That's the guy behind him, who's face I don't recognize.

So the Flyers made a bunch of significant moves.

First they trade Bobrovsky to Columbus for a second-rounder and two fourths. Bobrovsky is a fine backup goaltender who probably deserves to start. Not sure he'll enjoy getting toasted in Columbus.

Can't complain about the return on the trade although immediate help in some form would have been nice.

Draft: Flyers shocked everyone by taking a center. Again. Of course they have Eleventy million centers already on the roster, and most of them are under age 25. Given the Flyers' track record of drafting and developing forwards, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. Their second pick, a goalie from New Jersey, was an obvious reach. Ranked by consensus as the 10th-best goalie, he was impressive at the combine. After that, they focused on taking big defensemen.

Oh and they traded JVR.