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Thursday, April 15, 2010

OT: NHL Playoff Thread

I estimate that only 10-12 Primates care about the NHL Playoffs, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the NBA playoffs and Pavement’s discography.

Cabbage Posted: April 15, 2010 at 03:44 PM | 1758 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   401. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 13, 2010 at 04:06 AM (#3531230)
Someone in the NHL should do a quick investigation into the affairs of Sergei Gonchar.
If he wasn't tanking it for the Russian mob, then he should be so ####### embarrassed by his performance tonight that he should flee to the KHL.
That "Olé" maneuver on the shorthanded goal ("No, please. Skate right by me and take a shot. I won't stop you. Good luck!") was pathetic.
   402. J. Lowenstein Apathy Club Posted: May 13, 2010 at 04:13 AM (#3531235)
I simply don't see how allowing the opposition to spend so much time in your own zone (it's gotta be nearly 2-to-1 over both series', right?) is a winning strategy

Having watched a lot of both series (and as a Montreal fan) I think that both times it was predicated on the types of players Montreal were facing. It probably escaped no one's notice how bad Malkin has been with the puck this series - and he has had the puck a lot, surely more than any other player. Yet every pass that I can recall has been in a teammate's skates. Likewise with Semin in the Washington series; forced to employ a more direct style against a team that doesn't run around its own zone but retains its defensive shape, he became useless, and eventually discouraged.

Martin has borrowed very heavily from soccer tactics in the first two rounds. Surrender possession deliberately, not just on line changes (commonplace in the NHL) but in any circumstance where you are likely to lose your defensive shape and cohesion. Plug the slot with bodies to keep cross-ice passes from cutting you up. Depend on Halak to battle through traffic to handle anything shot from 45+ feet, and man-mark anyone who puts themselves in a dangerous area, preferably with a big, strong defenceman rather than shadowing with a forward.

Offensively, the team have been extremely patient and have forechecked and backchecked tenaciously in the offensive zone. Just not (not at all) in the neutral zone. It's odd - I am calling it rope-a-dope hockey - but it is working.
   403. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 13, 2010 at 04:32 AM (#3531242)
So far, Montreal has been lucky as they haven't faced a big, physical team.
Washington and Pittsburgh are bigger than Montreal (in size), but they don't impose their size on anyone.
Boston is also a not-so-big team (other than Zdeno the Giant), so Montreal might match up well against them.
I think Philadelphia could give Montreal a real problem. Same with San Jose.
But if Montreal makes it to the finals, I don't care if they face the Russian Red Army team of 1976, no one is going to beat them.
   404. Kurt Posted: May 13, 2010 at 04:39 AM (#3531245)
Furthermore, Montreal is now 3-0 (or 4-0?) in elimination games, right?

5-0. Three against the Caps, and two against the Pens.
   405. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 13, 2010 at 05:06 AM (#3531254)
2.) Montreal has obviously had a good amount of luck on it's side. I simply don't see how allowing the opposition to spend so much time in your own zone (it's gotta be nearly 2-to-1 over both series', right?) is a winning strategy, even if you are keeping them to the perimeter. You're just asking too much of your goalie and defense. Furthermore, Montreal is now 3-0 (or 4-0?) in elimination games, right? I'm not going to completely dismiss "clutch", but you know things are going well when you're able to pull off three or four of those in a row.


Oh, it works. The problem is that it eventually wears the team out. The Canadiens will very likely run out of gas and get annihilated, either in the conference finals or in the finals, in 4 or 5 games.
   406. Copronymus Posted: May 13, 2010 at 05:36 AM (#3531257)
Anyone have a decent link that gives a good breakdown (not just on Corsi, but on statistical analysis in hockey in general)


Possibly you've seen this if you've been reading Behind the Net, but he ran a series earlier in the season on the basic ideas behind what the hockey stats guys are doing which you can find here. Beyond that, I don't think I've seen much in the way of basic primers, partly because the analysis is still pretty raw and a lot of things are still up in the air and partly because there's not a whole lot of writers doing hockey analysis who could do that sort of thing and make it useful and interesting. I want PuckProspectus to be a success, but their writing is pretty flat and doesn't compel me to come back all that often. Gabriel Desjardins/Hawerchuk is OK, there are a few good Oilers blogs, and Matt Fenwick at the Battle of Alberta is quite good but barely posts these days. Beyond that, it's a lot of meh.
   407. JL Posted: May 13, 2010 at 03:51 PM (#3531529)
The Penguins are just spent. The Ottawa series was rough, they're very banged up, and their goaltender is still a liability. If they'd survived Montreal, they wouldn't likely have survived Philadelphia/Boston.

I find this laughable as an excuse. I heard it on the radio last night and it was not any better. This is the playoffs. You suck it up and play hard, or you go home. Being tired is never an excuse. If so, then the Pens can give back their Stanley Cup from last year, because that Detroit team was pretty tired from their playoff runs over the years. That is silly, of course, because it is not an excuse.
   408. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 13, 2010 at 07:37 PM (#3531786)
JLAC: This post at BtN is kind of what I'm getting at. I'm not sure how exactly they're defining "scoring chances", but even if you had a different interpretation, I think the results (Montreal getting outchanced by about eight per game over the first 13 playoff games) would look largely the same. The only argument I can see against this is that Montreal has had better (higher quality) chances than Pitt and Wash, but based on the little that I've read, the data seems to indicate that's extremely debatable.
   409. Papa Squid Posted: May 14, 2010 at 03:12 AM (#3532345)


Mr. Squid Father: some educational reading material for you:
http://www.puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=546


I'm sorry, but I simply don't buy they're the fifth best team in the league as he describes. If they're the fifth best team, then the league is far crappier than I ever imagined. I know they beat Pittsburgh, but the Pens outchanced them 2-1 for the series. They didn't look like an inferior team, though Montreal did get stronger as the series wore on.

In an earlier article, where he picks them as a potential playoffs dark horse, he tallies up all the missing GVT that were missed via injury or player personnel decision (playing Price instead of Halak), then concludes they would have been the 5th best team in the league. Doesn't pass my smell test. Wouldn't you have to adjust every team's GVT to account for their injuries and personnel decisions?

That's like me saying, "Well, the Leafs have played well since the trade for Phaneuf and Giguere. If you retroactively give Toskala's ice time to Giguere, as well as call up Bozak, Hanson, Stalberg, Gunnarsson in November -- the Leafs move up from 29th to 15th (or whatever). The Leafs are therefore an average hockey team." I think that would be a laughable assertion.

Montreal's been a lucky team all year long. In the first part of the season, they had a great OT/SO record (I think they won their first 8 games), then despite being badly outchanced night after night, were still coming away with points. In December, Behind the Net said they were having a "shockingly lucky season." That stuff eventually runs out, but all they need to do is squeeze another month out of it. Given they're the Habs and have some kind of arrangement with the hockey gods, I wouldn't rule it out.
   410. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: May 14, 2010 at 03:22 AM (#3532355)
The other thing is that, yeah, Montreal lost out some because Markov was hurt so much of the year. But he's hurt now too. So right now the Habs can't be rated that highly based on what they are putting out on the ice nightly.

Then again, the only times I notice Markov in Habs games I've seen is when he ##### something up royally. I was kind of shocked to see their record with him versus without him. Apparently, he does bring something to the table.
   411. Papa Squid Posted: May 14, 2010 at 03:07 PM (#3532603)
One more thing about Montreal. Why is it still their centennial season? Wasn't it their centennial in 2008-09? It takes a special kind of arrogance to have TWO centennial seasons!
   412. zack Posted: May 14, 2010 at 03:09 PM (#3532605)
Sharks fans' hate of Brian Campbell is mystifying and hilarious to me. He's a traitor because your GM traded a first round pick for him and then he left in free agency? How the hell is that the player's fault? He played half a friggin' season there!
   413. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: May 14, 2010 at 03:15 PM (#3532611)
I just noticed that the Western Conference finals features a 1 seed vs. a 2 seed, while the Eastern Conference will be either a 6 or 7 seed vs. an 8 seed. That's kind of crazy.
   414. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: May 14, 2010 at 05:02 PM (#3532729)
Sharks fans' hate of Brian Campbell is mystifying and hilarious to me. He's a traitor because your GM traded a first round pick for him and then he left in free agency? How the hell is that the player's fault? He played half a friggin' season there!

The Sharks fans that go to games are morons. I do not miss going to games, as it was embarrassing to be in their presence.

This all stems from Chris Pronger. Pronger did something back in the day that resulted in Sharks fans booing him every time he touched the puck. Then they got some attention for it during a playoff series. And these are not people familiar with the idea that there can be too much of a good thing. So in an attempt to continue garnering attention for their stupid ways of expressing fandom, they will now boo anybody they can conceive any reason to boo.

They are all just hardcore dorks.
   415. Cabbage Posted: May 14, 2010 at 05:04 PM (#3532734)
[edited for wrong thread]
   416. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 14, 2010 at 06:02 PM (#3532844)
They got Danny Boyle to fill the spot Campbell left, right? And he's better than Campbell, so they should be happy with that.

---

Justin, do you ever go to Fear the Fin? The comment section, like most blogs, is totally hit or miss, but I'm enjoying the main article previews. I like Second City Hockey for some of that stuff too, even though they enjoy the sophomoric insults a bit too much.

Should be a good, close series. I don't know exactly what to expect - I'm a little more confident than I was going into the Canucks series, but I don't think there's really any reason I should feel that way.
   417. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: May 14, 2010 at 09:18 PM (#3533119)
I know of Fear the Fin, but I don't read much hockey content these days. I just check the Mercury News guy's blog to see if there's anything major going on and that's about it.

I think the series will be exciting for people who aren't Hawks or Sharks fans. But with both teams having some ability to skate and score, there will be a lot of angst-filled moments for the team trying to keep the puck out of its net. Of course, the Hawks kicked the #### out of the Sharks in one game this season which has people concerned. And in the one game the Sharks won they got outshot 47-14.

We'll just have to see, I guess.
   418. John DiFool2 Posted: May 15, 2010 at 01:36 AM (#3533340)
Bruins have nobody but themselves to blame for blowing the lead they had (both of them). Poor goaltending, getting outhustled to loose pucks, and then the 7 men on the ice penalty leading to the losing goal. [BTW I'm not a Bruin fan despite rooting for the Red Sox]
   419. scotto Posted: May 15, 2010 at 01:51 AM (#3533350)
My hats are off to the Flyers. They played a better game today despite a shaky start, and as John DiFool2 says, outhustled the Bruins from about the 15 minute mark of the 1st period to the end of the game.

I have to wonder why Julien seemed to go into hockey's equivalent of the prevent defense so early in the game.

And Bruins' fans, WTF? That was an embarrassing post game display of stupidity and poor sportsmanship.
   420. scotto Posted: May 15, 2010 at 01:53 AM (#3533351)
For the record, I'm pulling for a Habs/Hawks championship, and for the Hawks the rest of the way.
   421. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 15, 2010 at 02:31 AM (#3533370)
For the record, I'm pulling for a Habs/Hawks championship, and for the Hawks the rest of the way.

That would be pretty much the best the NHL could ask for from a ratings point of view, right? Not that Bettman and company are particularly good in the way of promotion...
   422. Kurt Posted: May 15, 2010 at 02:58 AM (#3533388)
If they're the fifth best team, then the league is far crappier than I ever imagined. I know they beat Pittsburgh, but the Pens outchanced them 2-1 for the series.

FWIW, people here in DC are convinced that the Caps' huge advantage in shots over Montreal was misleading; that a lot of the shots were not very good scoring chances and that Montreal's style of play led to the shot disparity while keeping the game close. I didn't see any of the Pens series so have no idea if any of that may apply, but it seems possible.
   423. Gaelan Posted: May 15, 2010 at 03:11 AM (#3533394)
FWIW, people here in DC are convinced that the Caps' huge advantage in shots over Montreal was misleading; that a lot of the shots were not very good scoring chances and that Montreal's style of play led to the shot disparity while keeping the game close. I didn't see any of the Pens series so have no idea if any of that may apply, but it seems possible.


If people in DC think that then people in DC are idiots. The Capitals absolutely dominated that series.
   424. Yardape Posted: May 15, 2010 at 04:30 AM (#3533421)
If people in DC think that then people in DC are idiots. The Capitals absolutely dominated that series.


Yes. As a Habs fan, they got really lucky against Washington, and pretty lucky against Pittsburgh. BehindtheNet has been all over this; no matter how you slice the numbers (shots, scoring chances, by score situation, etc.) Washington dominated the play. Halak just played phenomenally and unsustainably) well. I guess the one thing is that Montreal had better goaltending than either the Caps or the Pens, and that helped them jump to early leads in some key games (and then hang on for dear life).
I don't think they'll need to be especially lucky to beat Philadelphia; they had the same number of points in the regular season, I think this one's a coin flip. The SCF could be ugly, though, no matter what the matchup is.
   425. nick swisher hygiene Posted: May 15, 2010 at 04:40 AM (#3533425)
I'm not sure if Montreal is really the 5th best team, but I think they were an underrated team going into the playoffs. they were lucky against Washington, sure; I was very unimpressed with Pittsburgh, otoh. the Pens' main strategy seemed to be have Crosby complain to the refs after every period. lots of buzzing around with the puck, VERY little even strength offense in that series for the Pens.

the one other thing I'll say, as a Habs fan, is that Halek has not had much traffic in front of his net. this was especially notable in the Washington series. for two weeks now, it's basically seemed that you can't score on him without a screen or a tip. Philly, with their size, may cause some problems that way. otoh, Philly is not as good a team as Wash or Pitts. my guess is Montreal takes Philly, and then loses to Chicago in five.
   426. Papa Squid Posted: May 16, 2010 at 06:30 PM (#3534150)
I'm not sure if Montreal is really the 5th best team, but I think they were an underrated team going into the playoffs.


Perhaps, but they've played very much like a borderline playoff team, for the most part. Pretty much all the Eastern teams from Ottawa down through maybe Atlanta were somewhat interchangeable. Perhaps they could have been as good as a 5-seed, or just as easily been down around 12th.

This series with Philly is a toss-up. If Halak and Cammalleri can keep it up, they should win. It really is an underwhelming playoff matchup. Either side should beware not to look past the other.
   427. DA Baracus Posted: May 16, 2010 at 07:22 PM (#3534179)
This all stems from Chris Pronger. Pronger did something back in the day that resulted in Sharks fans booing him every time he touched the puck. Then they got some attention for it during a playoff series. And these are not people familiar with the idea that there can be too much of a good thing. So in an attempt to continue garnering attention for their stupid ways of expressing fandom, they will now boo anybody they can conceive any reason to boo.


That's nothing. At least Campbell was once a Shark, and so there's some reason to be mad at him for not signing. Montreal fans boo Danny Briere because he didn't sign with them, and of course he never played for them.
   428. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 17, 2010 at 02:33 PM (#3534588)
Great game 1 for the Sharks and Hawks. Both goalies were great.

Hawks didn't get a power play, but got a huge break when they put Versteeg in the box instead of Bolland to kill the penalty to end the game. I'm not sure how the officials mess that one up. Sharks won't get 45 shots in a game again, and on the other side Niemi may not have that dominating of a game again. As a Hawks fan, I feel good about how everything went down, but hope the defense tightens up (I think 14 of the shots were on the PP, but the Hawks should never give up that many in a game). Even though the Hawks got about 40 SOG as well, they didn't have as many great shots as the Sharks. I do think the Hawks can play better on offense and defense.

Fun pace though. That's got to favor the Hawks.
   429. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 17, 2010 at 03:08 PM (#3534601)
I just noticed that the Western Conference finals features a 1 seed vs. a 2 seed, while the Eastern Conference will be either a 6 or 7 seed vs. an 8 seed. That's kind of crazy.


Is it just me or do the NHL playoffs seem to have way more upsets than any other sports? My theory is that goaltending is huge, and a hot goaltender can carry a pretty mediocre team to a series victory.
   430. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: May 17, 2010 at 03:32 PM (#3534614)
Fun pace though. That's got to favor the Hawks.

It looked like the Sharks were visibly wearing down at the end. I don't think that pace really favors them - the Sharks are an offensively-oriented team, but the more skating that happens, the better the Hawks look.
   431. Cabbage Posted: May 17, 2010 at 03:34 PM (#3534617)
Is it just me or do the NHL playoffs seem to have way more upsets than any other sports? My theory is that goaltending is huge, and a hot goaltender can carry a pretty mediocre team to a series victory.

Another theory (not mine) is that upsets are easier because hockey has a low scoring environment. There are many shots and a number of scoring chances, but every individual chance has a low percentage of success. Good teams will create more scoring chances, but there is more randomness.

So the "hot goaltender" theory is kinda true, in that it reflects how difficult it is to score.
   432. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 17, 2010 at 04:02 PM (#3534633)
It looked like the Sharks were visibly wearing down at the end. I don't think that pace really favors them - the Sharks are an offensively-oriented team, but the more skating that happens, the better the Hawks look.

The Sharks really only play 3 lines, so that definitely could be a factor the longer the series goes (and in possible OT games).

Lots of matchup work by the coaches yesterday, and the Hawks burned the Sharks #1 twice (Marleau, Heatley and Thorton were all -2). The Hawks scored once with their 2nd line and once with their top line.
   433. JL Posted: May 18, 2010 at 03:57 PM (#3535578)
This all stems from Chris Pronger. Pronger did something back in the day that resulted in Sharks fans booing him every time he touched the puck. Then they got some attention for it during a playoff series. And these are not people familiar with the idea that there can be too much of a good thing. So in an attempt to continue garnering attention for their stupid ways of expressing fandom, they will now boo anybody they can conceive any reason to boo.

Be that as it may, booing Pronger just makes sense.
   434. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 19, 2010 at 04:45 AM (#3536612)
Hawks just did a superb job of locking down once they got the 3-0 lead tonight. I was thinking how beautifully boring they made the third period -- clamp down in the neutral zone and play the blue lines. I'd like to see the third period scoring chances for San Jose. I seem to recall two distinctly -- not sure they had more than that.

Nothing spectacular on the Hawks goals, particularly goals two and three -- get the puck to the net with traffic in front and hope the tip goes your way. First goal was really weak, though -- Nabakov's gotta save that one.
   435. Cabbage Posted: May 19, 2010 at 05:40 AM (#3536629)
If I were Peter King, and that Hawks game was Monday Night Football, I would end my summary of the event with lots of small quasi-profound sentences like "What a man" and "This team sees victory"
   436. thread killer Posted: May 19, 2010 at 05:48 AM (#3536633)
Hawks D is way superior than the Sharks and in series like these it has always been the other team that seems to have the "hot" goalie. Even if the Sharks manage to win game #3 there is no way they win game #4. They will be lucky if the series goes 6 as the regular season matchup proved that the Hawks were the better team.
   437. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 19, 2010 at 02:28 PM (#3536771)
Dave Bolland has been huge this series - he was pretty good last series too against the Sedins - but he's really giving Thornton fits. Toews and Keith are continuing their march towards stardom and becoming award finalist regulars. Niemi had another great game - that second goal is on him though, that rebound was soft and right the middle of an open crease. But he was huge early, as the Sharks came out and completely dominated the first 10 minutes. They had nothing to show for it though, and the Hawks just had their way the rest of the game (although, I have to say their first PP had to be one of the worst PPs I've ever seen; not only did they not get a single shot attempt, I'm not sure they ever even had control of the puck in the offensive zone the entire time). Unlike the Canucks series, the Hawks are scoring everywhere on the ice this series. They look like a much better team right now, and I sure hope whatever it was that caused them to play sluggish early in the playoffs has passed. I'm worried about their effort level for game 3 (all year, they had a tendency to just assume victory following big wins and had let downs). The Sharks have outshot the Hawks both games, and while I know that's the end all be all, that didn't happen very often this season.

And I give up on trying to understand what's happening in the East.
   438. Cabbage Posted: May 20, 2010 at 04:54 PM (#3537934)
And I give up on trying to understand what's happening in the East.

Predictions for tonight? I'll guess that it'll be a high-scoring affair, that Philly wins in OT, and that Flyer faithful wig out about the goaltending.
   439. Karl from NY Posted: May 20, 2010 at 05:06 PM (#3537949)
The Penguins are better, but I won't be shocked if the Canadiens drop them in six and then get destroyed in the conference finals by the Bruins/Flyers.


I'm just reading this thread now. Zeth in #316 back on May 2 was psychic.
   440. steagles Posted: May 22, 2010 at 07:14 PM (#3539815)
is this thread dead?


flyers-habs game 4 is coming on in a minute.
   441. Cabbage Posted: May 23, 2010 at 03:57 AM (#3540312)
A little dead. I'll keep at it, but I'm not a really intense poster.

I caught about a third of Habs Flyers today, and I have to say the flyers look good.
   442. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 23, 2010 at 05:15 AM (#3540344)
is this thread dead?


We just don't have the manpower to keep up with the NBA thread.
   443. John DiFool2 Posted: May 23, 2010 at 02:21 PM (#3540404)
I will post more then. I still think the Hawks are the best of the two putative Finals teams (which can both advance on home ice now). Oh, and the NBA sucks!
   444. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 23, 2010 at 10:07 PM (#3540708)
Outstanding. What a game. What a series, even though it was a sweep.

And props to Duncan Keith. I think he missed less than 10 minutes of ice time.
   445. Famous Original Joe C Posted: May 23, 2010 at 10:23 PM (#3540714)
Dear Blackhawks Fans,

I couldn't be happier for you. For years, the Blackhawks were my number two team to the Boston ******, in part because I loved their uniforms (asked for one for my birthday when I turned 12), in part because they were dominant in NHL '94 and '95 on Sega Genesis, and in part because Jeremy Roenick played HS hockey in the town I grew up in (Braintree, MA) and became a star at the time my hockey fandom (1988-1995) was at its peak. Not to mention "Here Come the Hawks", the second best NHL team theme song ever after the Hartford's "Brass Bonanza".

Anyway, it's a shame the way your franchise was run for so long; you've secretly suffered as much as almost any fanbase in the four (cough) major U.S. sports over the past 15 years. And now, here you are. Congratulations on your Hawks' success. I hope you whoop the East Champs.
   446. Cabbage Posted: May 24, 2010 at 03:24 AM (#3541036)
Today was a very good day. (1) Celebrated Pentecost (2) Hawks Win (3) Georgian (as in the central asian people) Cookout.
   447. Jimmy P Posted: May 24, 2010 at 05:06 PM (#3541376)
Outstanding. What a game. What a series, even though it was a sweep.

I'm still in disbelief
   448. Cabbage Posted: May 24, 2010 at 07:22 PM (#3541536)
And props to Duncan Keith. I think he missed less than 10 minutes of ice time.

As a conversation on facebook went, "He might not have any teeth, but he's got a big brass pair."
   449.  Hey Gurl Posted: May 25, 2010 at 03:39 AM (#3541955)
So that was as uneventful a third round as I can remember.
   450. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 25, 2010 at 02:19 PM (#3542171)
I guess so, Shock. Like I said above, that Hawks/Sharks series could have gone either way. 1 OT game, and games 1 and 4 were tied until the last 6 or 7 minutes. Everything went the Hawks way though.

Should be a good series with Philly. The one time they played, the Hawks got Huet'd (2 goals in the last minute to lose by 1). Hawks will, and should be, huge favorites. Far be it from a Hawks fan to underrate a goalie, but I think the Hawks have the advantage in just about every matchup possible. That of course means nothing, so the Hawks have to play their game. If they do, the Flyers won't beat them. The Hawks controlled the tempo in every game of the SJ series, except in game 4. But that was also the one game the Hawks dominated the puck. So they've shown they can win at just about any speed.

I'm sure some of the story lines we'll hear will be that the Flyers are tougher, or have been tested more. While that 3-0 comeback is impressive, I still think the Hawks have had the tougher path.

Schedule is out. Saturday at 7 is game 1, then just about every other day. I can't wait.
   451. Jimmy P Posted: May 25, 2010 at 04:50 PM (#3542314)
Far be it from a Hawks fan to underrate a goalie

Wasn't Leighton on the Hawks a few years ago? Of course, none of these players probably played with him with the exceptions of Sharp and Keith.

I think the Hawks have the advantage in just about every matchup possible

Pronger worries me. The man is awesome. He takes one side of the ice out of the game, and does it for close to half the game. The trick for the Hawks will be making sure that Buff ties him up. If Pronger gets near Kane or Toews, that line won't be able to score. Hossa needs to score some.
   452. steagles Posted: May 25, 2010 at 05:16 PM (#3542349)
I think the Hawks have the advantage in just about every matchup possible.


the flyers have a few advantages. pronger, being the main one, but they've got 4 D playing 25 minutes a game. coburn has pulled his head out of his ass and is a threat because of his size and skating ability. timonen is tremendous. carle is very good offensively. and then pronger, playing damn near 30 minutes a night.

they're lacking in a #1 scorer, but carter did net 46 goals last season, and they've got 4 other forwards playing extremely well right now (richards, leino, giroux, briere).



also, the flyers, and i know how this must sound, are amazingly well disciplined. they were getting slashed and cross checked any time they touched the puck or there was a scrum against montreal, and they kept their cool the whole time.
   453.  Hey Gurl Posted: May 25, 2010 at 07:52 PM (#3542499)
I really couldn't be less interested in the SCF, to be quite honest. I am so sick of the media's obsession with Dustin Buttfugly. As if just about any player in the NHL would have trouble scoring on that line. The Flyers winning would be interesting, I guess. Sure would be funny for Hossa to lose in the SCF 3 years in a row.
   454. Jimmy P Posted: May 25, 2010 at 08:27 PM (#3542559)
As if just about any player in the NHL would have trouble scoring on that line.

Funny how no one else really could, though. The line didn't click until it was the three of them. Check out Moses and others lamenting about the Hawks line combos a few pages ago
   455. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 25, 2010 at 09:01 PM (#3542600)
The Hawks controlled the tempo in every game of the SJ series, except in game 4. But that was also the one game the Hawks dominated the puck. So they've shown they can win at just about any speed.

Game 4 was pretty much what the Hawks did in a majority of games this year. Control possession, dominate in SOG with the opposition having very little time in their own zone to make anything happen. It was fun to watch.

Wasn't Leighton on the Hawks a few years ago?

Link to the 2003-2004 Blackhawks team page. In retrospect, it's fun to think about the the pre-Toews/Kane era teams. The ABC line was the Hawks number one line; Ruutu's second half had me thinking the Hawks finally had a star player. Even the failed first-rounders like Yakubov, Vorobiev (unibrow!) and Babchuk got time that year.

Pronger worries me.

If it's anything like the Olympics, I'm not overly concerned. When USA played Canada, I thought the US were at their best when the Pronger/Neidermayer pairing were on the ice (I wonder if the scoring chance stats back this up), simply because they are way too slow (at this point) to deal with speed. As such, I think Toews/Kane/Byfuglien shouldn't have any problem with any of the Philly pairings*.

As a sidenote, it sucks that Hossa has not scored much, but he has bossed in just about every other area that I'm not sure it matters. IIRC, I thought I saw that the Hossa/Sharp/Brouwer line had the best net scoring chances (scoring chances for minus scoring chances against) out of all the Hawks lines (of course, this doesn't adjust for quality of line competition you're going against. That is to say Kane/Toews/Buff almost certainly draw the toughest match-ups, making it easier for the Hossa line to do work.).

*I'd say that Toews/Kane/Buff won't face a better D pairing than Nashville's Weber/Suter.
   456. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 25, 2010 at 09:14 PM (#3542615)
Regarding Philly, I'm not sure what to make of them. They got into the playoffs on the last day of the season on a shootout victory, squeaking into the playoffs in a weak eastern conference. Their goal differential was +9 (compared to the Hawks' +62). It seems like they have a good amount of talent and perhaps underachieved that talent. Who knows...

My questions would be -- how healthy is Carter? Also -- does Philly trap at all? The Flyers can try and play a fast game with the Hawks, but I think if you play like that you are going to get out-chanced and as such are leaving a lot of it on Leighton's shoulders.
   457. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: May 25, 2010 at 10:18 PM (#3542674)
the flyers have a few advantages. pronger, being the main one, but they've got 4 D playing 25 minutes a game. coburn has pulled his head out of his ass and is a threat because of his size and skating ability. timonen is tremendous. carle is very good offensively. and then pronger, playing damn near 30 minutes a night.

That's not what I meant. Of course they have great players, but I mean if you lined up the lines and D pairings, plus goalie, you probably pick Chicago's in each case. The best argument is the top D pairing (or goalie, I guess), so perhaps it's a reflection of your preference for either Pronger or Keith.

they're lacking in a #1 scorer, but carter did net 46 goals last season, and they've got 4 other forwards playing extremely well right now (richards, leino, giroux, briere).

Well, the funny thing is, the same is true for the Hawks. One day Kane will probably score that many goals, but that isn't true yet. Hossa's done it in the past, but his lack of scoring these playoffs has been a big story. The Hawks can score on any of the top 3 lines, so it's a pick your matchup. And considering the Flyers play their top 4 D so much, the Hawks speed up and down the roster will be a huge factor.

I am so sick of the media's obsession with Dustin Buttfugly. As if just about any player in the NHL would have trouble scoring on that line.

Well, like Jimmy said, it seems that way now, but it hasn't always been the case. He did have 3 GW goals this series, and a hat trick against Van, so it's kinda hard to not talk about his scoring now.

Game 4 was pretty much what the Hawks did in a majority of games this year. Control possession, dominate in SOG with the opposition having very little time in their own zone to make anything happen. It was fun to watch.

Indeed. And like your last point, the Hawks play just fine when it turns into a track meet.

---

Again, I don't want this to come across as too overconfident, I didn't see much of Philly prior to the playoffs. The one meeting doesn't tell us much (besides that obvious that Huet shouldn't touch the ice). I think I read somewhere the Hawks are as high as a 4/11 favorite (which is ridiculous), but by no means do I think it'll be a blowout series.
   458. Jimmy P Posted: May 25, 2010 at 11:24 PM (#3542755)
In retrospect, it's fun to think about the the pre-Toews/Kane era teams.

I sure don't think so. That Blackhawks team almost turned me off of the NHL. If I wasn't living in a city with a good team at the time, I think I would have quit the NHL.

*I'd say that Toews/Kane/Buff won't face a better D pairing than Nashville's Weber/Suter.

Yes, they will this round. Pronger and Timonen is better than Weber and Suter. Pronger is that good.

If it's anything like the Olympics, I'm not overly concerned. When USA played Canada, I thought the US were at their best when the Pronger/Neidermayer pairing were on the ice

Well, the Olympics scare me, too. Because Pronger's line dominated Russia.
   459. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 25, 2010 at 11:46 PM (#3542810)
I sure don't think so. That Blackhawks team almost turned me off of the NHL. If I wasn't living in a city with a good team at the time, I think I would have quit the NHL.

I won't belabor the point, but the shitty hockey brought us Toews and Kane. I'll take the decade of ineptitude in exchange for a decade of excellence. Plus, how can you not laugh at some of the names on that team? Alexander Karpotsev! Chris Chelios replacement Steve McCarthy!
   460. Jimmy P Posted: May 26, 2010 at 03:28 PM (#3543334)
I won't belabor the point, but the shitty hockey brought us Toews and Kane. I'll take the decade of ineptitude in exchange for a decade of excellence. Plus, how can you not laugh at some of the names on that team? Alexander Karpotsev! Chris Chelios replacement Steve McCarthy!

Because it wasn't needed. The team they willingly dismantled because of Dollar Bill was good enough. No one made them trade 3 future Hall of Famers for a bag of pucks.
   461. Spivey Posted: May 30, 2010 at 03:39 AM (#3546026)
Now that was a ####### playoff game. Pronger is better than Keith, by the way. That's the first NHL game I've watched all the way through all year, but I'm comfortable saying that.

Pronger also looks like he weighs about 240 out there.
   462. Spivey Posted: May 30, 2010 at 03:44 AM (#3546028)
Game 4 was pretty much what the Hawks did in a majority of games this year. Control possession, dominate in SOG with the opposition having very little time in their own zone to make anything happen. It was fun to watch.

As apeshit as the first 2 periods were, this is what happened in the 3rd period. Philly didn't have much of a chance.
   463. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 30, 2010 at 03:48 AM (#3546031)
That was a barn-burner of a game.
If the entire series is like that, the NHL/NBC should be pretty damn happy with it.
   464. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: May 30, 2010 at 05:44 AM (#3546070)
it felt like philly didnt have a chance no matter how many they scored. just seemed like phillys goalie just didnt know what he was doing
   465. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 30, 2010 at 06:18 AM (#3546079)
Pronger is better than Keith, by the way. That's the first NHL game I've watched all the way through all year, but I'm comfortable saying that.


Did you see his rather egregious misplay on the Sharp goal?
   466. Jimmy P Posted: May 30, 2010 at 04:33 PM (#3546198)
Pronger is better than Keith, by the way. That's the first NHL game I've watched all the way through all year, but I'm comfortable saying that.

I don't think that's too much of a stretch. The real problem is that Keith's teammates are way better than Pronger's. They are different players. I don't think there's a defensemen better in the NHL of going from D to O quickly as Keith. His breakouts and transitions are amazing.
   467. Gaelan Posted: May 30, 2010 at 05:03 PM (#3546211)
Now that was a ####### playoff game. Pronger is better than Keith, by the way. That's the first NHL game I've watched all the way through all year, but I'm comfortable saying that.


You may be comfortable saying that but you'd be wrong. Keith is clearly better than Pronger. He turns the puck around much faster. The best defensemen in the league are Keith and Doughty. Everyone else is a notch below.
   468. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 30, 2010 at 06:10 PM (#3546230)
Anyone see the back page of the Sun Times this morning? If not -- what's wrong with this picture?
   469.  Hey Gurl Posted: May 30, 2010 at 06:19 PM (#3546235)
I've always thought of Jonathan Toews as a slugger.
   470. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: May 31, 2010 at 06:39 PM (#3546632)
'Slovak Cashed' doesn't have the same ring to it.
   471. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 01, 2010 at 02:58 PM (#3547073)
Another great game last night. The Hawks really went into protect mode early and let the Flyers completely dominate the 3rd. That being said, they still only got a fluke goal - that was one crazy short hop. When the Hawks have applied pressure and played their best - first period last night and 3rd period Saturday - the Flyers look like they don't have a chance. Of course, the Hawks aren't quite good enough to play that way an entire game against a team as talented and deep as the Flyers. Thankfully, Niemi was outstanding last night.

There's a couple of ways to look at the rest of the series. Neither team's top line has done anything, so you can say the top defensive pairings have played well (even after the shootout of game 1). You gotta figure one, if not both of them, will break out. So far, the Hawks have proved to be the deeper team - games winners have been a 4th liner and a 3rd liner only playing because of Ladd's injury. I really can't believe they're only 2 wins away.

Now that was a ####### playoff game. Pronger is better than Keith, by the way. That's the first NHL game I've watched all the way through all year, but I'm comfortable saying that.

You may be comfortable saying that but you'd be wrong. Keith is clearly better than Pronger. He turns the puck around much faster. The best defensemen in the league are Keith and Doughty. Everyone else is a notch below.


See, this is funny. That's why I said it's personal preference which guy you prefer. Both are great, and I think you're both silly to be so confident in declaring one obviously superior to the other. For now, I'm glad I'm rooting for the
classier one.

I'm glad the officiating has been cleaner this series, but it does baffle me how Pronger gets away with just about everything.
   472. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: June 01, 2010 at 03:13 PM (#3547091)
The Hawks really went into protect mode early and let the Flyers completely dominate the 3rd. That being said, they still only got a fluke goal - that was one crazy short hop. When the Hawks have applied pressure and played their best - first period last night and 3rd period Saturday - the Flyers look like they don't have a chance.

I feel like the 'Hawks didn't play particularly well either night, certainly not their best hockey they've played this season. They let the Flyers have possession of the puck for far too long, and let them have far too many offensive chances. I get that they're coming up on the end of a really long season, but so are the Flyers. And whatever the Flyers are doing to shut down Kane and Toews, it's working. The series could as easily be 2-0 Flyers as 2-0 Blackhawks.

One guy who's really stepped up in this series is Marian Hossa. The team looks different with him on the ice. Between this and the San Jose series, I think Blackhawks fans are seeing the player that the Blackhawks really wanted last summer.
   473. Spivey Posted: June 01, 2010 at 03:15 PM (#3547094)
Keith does seem like a better offensive defender, but I think Pronger just seems like a better defending defender.

Game last night was exciting - based on what I've seen in the first 2 games, I don't think that Philly was getting the puck high enough on Niemi last night. Kane doesn't seem to have done much of anything at this point into the series either. I was hoping for big things from him, as I have jumped a bit on the Chicago bandwagon, since they've got some good USA guys, play exciting hockey, and they're close to where I live.
   474. Jimmy P Posted: June 01, 2010 at 04:18 PM (#3547151)
I feel like the 'Hawks didn't play particularly well either night, certainly not their best hockey they've played this season

They haven't played their best, but they're playing pretty well. This series is highlighting one of the Hawks' best features - their depth.

The Hawks really went into protect mode early and let the Flyers completely dominate the 3rd.

The Flyers got crazy aggressive, too. The Flyers really have a tough situation, they need to score more because Leighton is shaky, but if they open it up, then the Hawks are going to start flying. If the Hawks get a head of steam through the neutral zone, they're really dangerous.
   475. steagles Posted: June 02, 2010 at 06:34 PM (#3548276)
<3
   476. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 02, 2010 at 06:44 PM (#3548284)
People are acting like this series is over. The Red Wings dominated the first two games of last year's Finals at home.
   477. SoSH U at work Posted: June 02, 2010 at 06:51 PM (#3548287)
People are acting like this series is over. The Red Wings dominated the first two games of last year's Finals at home.


The Red Wings and Penguins were more comparable teams than the Blackhawks and Flyers. The Hawks were one of the three best teams in the league. The Flyers were a pretty average bunch that only needed to beat one good team to get to the finals. It's not over, this being playoff hockey, but it's not terribly surprising that folks don't give Philly much chance to get back into this thing. The Hawks aren't the Bruins.
   478. steagles Posted: June 02, 2010 at 07:14 PM (#3548304)


The Red Wings and Penguins were more comparable teams than the Blackhawks and Flyers. The Hawks were one of the three best teams in the league. The Flyers were a pretty average bunch that only needed to beat one good team to get to the finals. It's not over, this being playoff hockey, but it's not terribly surprising that folks don't give Philly much chance to get back into this thing. The Hawks aren't the Bruins.


game 3 is huge. if the hawks can put their foot on the flyers' necks, yeah, it's over, but that foot's not there yet. they were outplayed in chicago (though not massively so), but if the flyers take game 3 on home ice, the series has a much different feel going into game 4.


also, i'm not really sure which team you're talking about. i don't think it's montreal. i mean, i know they beat pittsburgh and washington, but neither of those teams had a defense corps with enough speed to counter montreal's might mites. those series were more about a matchup problem and a hot goalie than montreal's superiority.

it's not boston. they folded like a house of cards when the pressure was on.

it's not the devils. it's just not.
   479. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: June 02, 2010 at 07:21 PM (#3548314)
also, i'm not really sure which team you're talking about. i don't think it's montreal. i mean, i know they beat pittsburgh and washington, but neither of those teams had a defense corps with enough speed to counter montreal's might mites. those series were more about a matchup problem and a hot goalie than montreal's superiority.

it's not boston. they folded like a house of cards when the pressure was on.

it's not the devils. it's just not.


The Devils were a 2 seed, no? They matched up really poorly against the Flyers (Philadelphia won the season series pretty handily), but that doesn't mean they weren't a good team.

The Flyers had three teams in their conference to worry about (Caps, Sabres, Penguins), and managed to avoid playing all three. They got very lucky.
   480. steagles Posted: June 02, 2010 at 07:38 PM (#3548326)


The Devils were a 2 seed, no? They matched up really poorly against the Flyers (Philadelphia won the season series pretty handily), but that doesn't mean they weren't a good team.

The Flyers had three teams in their conference to worry about (Caps, Sabres, Penguins), and managed to avoid playing all three. They got very lucky.
i think they'd have handled the sabres.


the point remains, though. they did get lucky in their matchups. that they had home ice advantage as a 7 seed in the conference finals makes the point. but they closed the door.


interesting to think about, but if the caps had won game 7 in the first round (or even games 5 or 6), this would have been a much different playoffs. flyers-caps in round two, with the winner of pens-bruins waiting in the conference finals.

i'm happy with how this year's eastern conference playoffs went down, but i'm really looking forward to next year, when the flyers should be even better. pronger, carle, coburn and timonen should all be back (though carle may be traded, and coburn will be an RFA). richards, carter, briere, giroux, leino, hartnell, gagne, and jvr are all back (as is carcillo). the goalie situation might be a little tossy, but boucher is under contract, and hopefully something gets worked out with leighton. winning the conference was nice this year, but i want to end the pens season next.



it's about a week to soon to really start thinking about, though. i'm still hoping we get 4 more wins.
   481. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: June 02, 2010 at 08:04 PM (#3548341)
game 3 is huge. if the hawks can put their foot on the flyers' necks, yeah, it's over, but that foot's not there yet. they were outplayed in chicago (though not massively so), but if the flyers take game 3 on home ice, the series has a much different feel going into game 4.

I think this is putting it kindly. I'd say that Philly has had the better of the play (by a small amount) over the first two games and are very unlucky to be heading back to Philly down 2-0. Then again, a solid goaltending performance can cover up a lot of warts, and that was the case for the Hawks in game two.

Also, I'm glad that Hossa finally put one in the net. He's been so ####### good for the past two series' (arguably the best Hawk forward). He's so good working in the corners, and his closing speed is amazing. Philly might be able to shut down Toews/Kane*, but I'm comfortable saying that the series will show that they don't have an answer for Sharp/Hossa/Brouwer.

*This is probably a good spot to point out how absurd my comment was that Weber/Suter were the best pairing the Hawks would face.
   482. steagles Posted: June 02, 2010 at 08:28 PM (#3548356)


I think this is putting it kindly. I'd say that Philly has had the better of the play (by a small amount) over the first two games and are very unlucky to be heading back to Philly down 2-0. Then again, a solid goaltending performance can cover up a lot of warts, and that was the case for the Hawks in game two.
the powerplay time for the respective teams has covered up a lot of the stink, but if the hawks start getting calls, the game is gonna be much more wide open.

i suspect the flyers' PK is gonna have a lot of work to do tonight. down 2-0, if they lose the game, it's damn near over, so i'm half expecting a dozen PPs for chicago, just so bettman won't have to hand the trophy to his arch nemeses.
   483. Jimmy P Posted: June 02, 2010 at 10:12 PM (#3548411)
they were outplayed in chicago (though not massively so)

I've heard this a lot, but goaltending still counts. And the Flyers goaltending hasn't really showed up at all. It's not that Leighton's been average and Neimi awesome, it's that Neimi's been real good and Leighton's been a disaster.

And I also agree about the powerplay time. The Hawks have taken two high sticks in this series, and neither has been called (both by puck carriers, both right in front of the official).

<3

When Pronger starts winning games, then he can be more of an ass. Until then, take your loser puck and go home.
   484. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 02, 2010 at 10:26 PM (#3548420)
game 3 is huge. if the hawks can put their foot on the flyers' necks, yeah, it's over, but that foot's not there yet. they were outplayed in chicago (though not massively so), but if the flyers take game 3 on home ice, the series has a much different feel going into game 4.

I think this is putting it kindly. I'd say that Philly has had the better of the play (by a small amount) over the first two games and are very unlucky to be heading back to Philly down 2-0. Then again, a solid goaltending performance can cover up a lot of warts, and that was the case for the Hawks in game two.


Not that it matters here and probably really is nitpicking, but I don't agree with this assessment. The first 2 periods of game 1 was the Wild West, I don't see how you can say either team outplayed the other there. Hawks dominated the 3rd period. Game 2, Hawks dominated the first period, played the 2nd pretty closely (although did outscore the Flyers by 2), and the Flyers ran circles around the Hawks in the 3rd. Sure, the Flyers are slightly unlucky it's 2-0, and they both were close enough to go either way, but I can't say the Flyers outplayed them. Then again, the Hawks were simply trying to milk the clock that period, it seemed, and the Flyers only goal was a fluky, lucky bounce. So, I don't feel like that period is predictive of anything to come.

Flyers 7-1 at home, Hawks are 7-1 on the road. And have played much, much better away from Chicago. Tonight should be outstanding.

<3

When Pronger starts winning games, then he can be more of an ass. Until then, take your loser puck and go home.


I laughed when I saw that during the game. Burish does run his mouth, so there's nothing assholish there. I also don't even mind the puck stuff, it's completely meaningless and irrelevant (although I'd love to see someone on the Hawks pass the puck over to Pronger tonight after a Hawks win). These are minor league dick moves, Pronger can do so much better. Perhaps he should focus on this more than playing good defense. I want to see him in the box a couple of times tonight, lord knows he's getting away with just about everything so far.
   485. steagles Posted: June 02, 2010 at 11:52 PM (#3548486)

they were outplayed in chicago (though not massively so)

I've heard this a lot, but goaltending still counts. And the Flyers goaltending hasn't really showed up at all. It's not that Leighton's been average and Neimi awesome, it's that Neimi's been real good and Leighton's been a disaster.

And I also agree about the powerplay time. The Hawks have taken two high sticks in this series, and neither has been called (both by puck carriers, both right in front of the official).
the eager goal was a backbreaker in game 2. he's gotta make that save. stopping the breakaway SH goal in game 1 would have been huge. but other than that, none of the goals have been terrible. i mean, if you expect to win the stanley cup, you've got a play to a higher standard than not being terrible, but leighton's got time to right himself and steal a few games.

<3

When Pronger starts winning games, then he can be more of an ass. Until then, take your loser puck and go home.
he's won 12 so far.

the whole scene of him stealing the pucks was hilarious. firing the debris at eager when confronted about it just added to the hilarity. i hope eager takes a run at him early on, just so the crowd will get fired up.

These are minor league dick moves, Pronger can do so much better.

chris pronger is a massive dick. it's freaking great to watch.
   486. steagles Posted: June 03, 2010 at 12:28 AM (#3548509)
really quick start to the game. both teams look great.
   487. steagles Posted: June 03, 2010 at 12:36 AM (#3548521)
how was that not buried?


also, i didn't know gagne was still that fast. maybe he's actually healthy.
   488. steagles Posted: June 03, 2010 at 12:39 AM (#3548525)
GOOAAALLLLL!!!!!!

holy ####, that was a pass from hartnell.
   489. steagles Posted: June 03, 2010 at 01:39 AM (#3548752)
car bomb's a wreck tonight. his slip and slide routine on an odd man rush in the first was kinda funny, okay, but the turnovers are a killer.
   490. steagles Posted: June 03, 2010 at 01:53 AM (#3548792)
CAN YOU PUSSIES HOLD ONE ####### LEAD FOR ##### SAKE?!?
   491. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: June 03, 2010 at 02:07 AM (#3548826)
Not that it matters here and probably really is nitpicking, but I don't agree with this assessment. The first 2 periods of game 1 was the Wild West, I don't see how you can say either team outplayed the other there. Hawks dominated the 3rd period. Game 2, Hawks dominated the first period, played the 2nd pretty closely (although did outscore the Flyers by 2), and the Flyers ran circles around the Hawks in the 3rd. Sure, the Flyers are slightly unlucky it's 2-0, and they both were close enough to go either way, but I can't say the Flyers outplayed them. Then again, the Hawks were simply trying to milk the clock that period, it seemed, and the Flyers only goal was a fluky, lucky bounce. So, I don't feel like that period is predictive of anything to come.

That's pretty reasonable. Philly has outchanced the Hawks in each of the first two games, but penalty and score factors confirm what I've watched -- a more or less even series through two games.
   492. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: June 03, 2010 at 02:18 AM (#3548856)
how are the flyers getting away with the #### there pulin this game?
   493. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: June 03, 2010 at 02:33 AM (#3548896)
that should have been a penelty shot
   494. steagles Posted: June 03, 2010 at 02:50 AM (#3548920)
i want no part of this overtime.


i really hope the flyers can make a series out of this. these games have been great, and it'd be a real shame if it gets decided in 4 or 5.
   495. steagles Posted: June 03, 2010 at 03:26 AM (#3548963)
great ending.

so happy that ended then and there.

with the flyers basically running just 4 defensemen (cause anytime the other two are on the ice, the puck finds the net), if this game had gone much longer, i don't know they'd have had enough gas in the tank to take another game, let alone another 3.


again, though i know it's way too early to look forward to next year, i really hope chicago is able to keep some semblance of this team together for a while. i'm pretty sure there gonna lose patrick sharp at the end of the season and i know that kane and toews are gonna add about 10 million to the cap since their ELCs are up, but that team is a hell of a lot of fun to watch.
   496. steagles Posted: June 03, 2010 at 03:34 AM (#3548975)
by the way, ice time in game 3 for the flyers D:

pronger: 32
carle: 29
coburn: 31
timonen: 28

krajicek: 7
bartulis: 2

mike richards was at 21 and change, ville leino at 23. giroux at 20, briere at 21. carbomb was at 7, and didn't see the ice past period 2.
   497. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 03, 2010 at 01:33 PM (#3549196)
Great game, but I'll say the Flyers definitely outplayed the Hawks last night. There were a couple of stretches where the Hawks controlled play, but far more where it was all Philly. Both teams had some bad luck - the Flyers must have missed the open net 3 times just in the first - but the good bounces that did happen all seemed to go Philly's way. The first Flyers goal and the OT winner were just very pretty plays, and both were badly defended. I still think Niemi played great last night; he gave off some rebounds but the defense controlled them pretty well - except for the first goal where Brower threw it right to a Flyer. The 2nd goal was a nice deflection that Niemi almost got, and the 3rd goal was a rebound off a deflection off Hendry's leg - nothing he could do there.

I feel your complaints, meatwad, but I don't think it was terribly officiating. Each team got a cheapie or two, and had a bad missed called. I got one penalty on Pronger, let's see if we can get him 2 on Friday.

again, though i know it's way too early to look forward to next year, i really hope chicago is able to keep some semblance of this team together for a while. i'm pretty sure there gonna lose patrick sharp at the end of the season and i know that kane and toews are gonna add about 10 million to the cap since their ELCs are up, but that team is a hell of a lot of fun to watch.

There's no one they're guaranteed to lose, but they're going to have to be creative. If they suck it up and just send Niemi to the minors, I've read they only need to shed about $3mil (which, conveniently, is what they owe Buff - I think he's the guy they should try to cash in now). Looking at the situation, the only UFA are Madden, Burish, and Johnnson - I like Madden but none are dealbreakers. They've got a bunch of RFA, but the only ones they need to sign are Hjalmarsson and Niemi; the rest are just depth players (and Ladd). So I don't think Sharp is going anywhere, but they're going to have some work to do.
   498. steagles Posted: June 03, 2010 at 07:09 PM (#3549667)
i'm watching the replay now on NHLN. that pronger crosscheck on buttfugglyn was awesome. the fact that the guy lost his cool and slashed pronger just shows how in his head pronger is.


a great game recap is here:



...1. Ville Leino - He had a truly outstanding game. The goal he scored was a gift from both the hockey gods and Patrick Sharp but there were many other times during the game when he was able to create something from nothing. My favourite play from Leino came on the power play to start the second period. After dancing with the puck toward the center of the ice and drawing the goaltender with him, he laid the puck back to Mike Richards for a glorious scoring chance. Richards missed the net but it was a great play to watch. The guy played the most sheltered 23:12 you can imagine - he led the Flyer forwards in ice time and had zero DZ draws at evens - but he made the most of it, leading the team in Corsi by a mile (+14) and turning that territorial advantage into chances.




i didn't really buy in to this flyers team, well, ever, but these SC finals games have been tremendous. i cannot believe this is the same team that i've been watching all season.



also, another interesting fact is that the top two goalies in the playoffs, as far as GAA is concerned, are both flyers. and both flyers goalies were waiver wire pickups (though admittedly it's been 2 years since the flyers picked boucher off the scrap heap, and he'd been to san jose and back in between).
   499. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: June 03, 2010 at 07:18 PM (#3549676)
The game was actually pretty even through two periods last night, but the Hawks put in another miserable third-period effort -- out-chanced 8-to-1 in the third last night, per the link in 498. Towards the end of the third and into OT, it certainly seemed like the Flyers were starting to gas. Alas it didn't matter -- talk about a brutal line change on the GWG.

that pronger crosscheck on buttfugglyn was awesome.

Well, it was certainly a blatant cross check. Not sure how that wasn't a penalty, or Pronger's trip on Madden. Between those and the two missed high sticks in Chicago (I'm aware that Toews got Briere last night, too), I'm not sure what the Hawks did to get the short end of the stick, but...
   500. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: June 03, 2010 at 07:49 PM (#3549715)
I think it was Versteeg not Madden that Pronger tripped.

It is awesome for the flyers as long as he gets away with it.
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