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Thursday, April 15, 2010

OT: NHL Playoff Thread

I estimate that only 10-12 Primates care about the NHL Playoffs, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the NBA playoffs and Pavement’s discography.

Cabbage Posted: April 15, 2010 at 03:44 PM | 1758 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   701. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: July 21, 2010 at 01:03 AM (#3594607)
Simon Gagne is now on the Lightning.
that was an awful series of deals.

coming in:
meszaros, walker, 4th round pick

going out:
gagne, 2nd round pick

that's 5.7 million coming in for two 3rd pair defensemen, and 5.25 going out for a first line winger.


these deals, combined with spending 3.3 million on jody shelley and screwing up the hamhuis thing really put holmgren in a bad light this offseason.




to take a more positive view on this, the flyers have 7 forwards who are top 6 players with carter, richards, briere, giroux, hartnell, leino, and zherdev. they also have a trio of up and coming forwards in van riemsdyk, maroon, and matsumoto. the rest of the lines will be filled by some combination of carcillo, shelley, betts, laperriere, powe, and cote.

this leaves a few interesting scenarios. the 4 best forwards are all centers. there are really only three slots available for them, so who's the odd man out? giroux has the least experience, but he's also freaking amazing on the puck. carter was left behind when he was put out of the lineup for most of the playoffs because of a broken foot, but he's also probably the forward most affected by being put on the wing, since he's kind of a floater, and isn't really willing to go into the corners and win battles for the puck. briere was the odd man for most of the regular season, but his line with leino and hartnell was amazing in the playoffs, and i'd really hope they'll give them a chance to start the season together to see if there was any fire under the smoke.


assuming the hartnell-briere-leino line stays together, the addition of zherdev creates and interesting scenario. if richards and giroux are the 1st and 3rd line centers, whose line gets stacked? there's carter and zherdev and JVR, but that's a huge step down after those first two. my inclination (and i've said it before in this thread) would be to have richards' line function as a checking line, since he's really tremendous defensively, which would mean that neither carter nor zherdev would fit with him. that scenario actually really intrigues me because a line of zherdev-giroux-carter could put up a massive number of points.

but even with that, there's still the question of who goes on richards' wing. JVR and carcillo don't really impress anyone as checkers, and richards really is too good to bury on a line with those two. ian laperriere, and blair betts are better checkers, but they don't have near the offensive upside that JVR has.


you know who'd look really great on richards wing? scottie upshall. i understand the reasoning behind the deal that sent him to phoenix, but he'd really look a whole lot better in the top 6 than dan carcillo.

short of that, i'm still hoping for an acquisition of colton gillies. 3 lines of van riemsdyk-richards-gillies, hartnell-briere-leino, zherdev-giroux-carter would make me a happy, happy guy.



this is kind of long, isn't it.
   702. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: July 21, 2010 at 02:34 AM (#3594680)
apparently the NHL has rejected kovalchuk's contract.
   703.     Hey Gurl Posted: July 21, 2010 at 02:53 AM (#3594687)
the NHL had to draw a line somewhere. These tack on deals are getting ridiculous.
   704. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: July 21, 2010 at 03:48 AM (#3594730)
the NHL had to draw a line somewhere. These tack on deals are getting ridiculous.


But these long-term deals (Hossa, Kovalchuk) all seem "legal;" that is, well within the confines of the CBA.

Apparently, the NHL's reasoning for voiding the deal was that Kovy probably won't be playing professional hockey at age 44. And... that's probably true. Few athletes play professionally into their 40s, and this is especially true of hockey players. On the other hand, Kovy is a very healthy player who rarely misses time to injury (I think he's played 75+ games every year he's been in the NHL). He doesn't play a very physical style of hockey which could allow him to stick around for a few extra years. Heck, Mark Recchi and Chris Chelios are still playing!

There is a clause in the CBA that states teams can't make deals that attempt to circumventing the cap. But if the NHL is going to argue this, how did they not void the Hossa & Luongo deals?*

*Not that I'm upset about these deals, as I'm a Hawks' fan.
   705.     Hey Gurl Posted: July 21, 2010 at 04:28 AM (#3594777)
It's more than just "probably true."

Yeah, the guys that play until they are 39 or 40 are pretty rare. I'd say he might make it, but 44? Come on. The amount of guys that have played at 44 in recent history is limited to who....Chelios and Messier? That's just silliness.
   706. zack Posted: July 21, 2010 at 01:47 PM (#3594940)
My first reaction was how can they cancel this deal when they let Hossa slide, but looking at the numbers, the Kovalchuk deal is obviously more blatant. Really they should've seen this coming and done something about it already.

$6.0-$6.0-$11.5-$11.5-$11.5-$11.5-$11.5-$10.5-$8.5-$6.5-$3.5-$.750-$.550-$.550-$.550-$.550-$.550

(wow that's a lot of years)

$7.9-$7.9-$7.9-$7.9-$7.9-$7.9-$7.9-$4.0-$1.0-$1.0-$1.0-$1.0

Kovalchuk's is essentially a $3 mil cap reduction ($8.9 to $6) , Hossa's a $2 mil reduction ($7.4 to $5.3).
   707. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: July 21, 2010 at 02:04 PM (#3594966)
there's also pronger:

7.6 - 7.6 - 7.2 - 7.0 - 4.0 - .525 - .525


not nearly as tacky as the kovalchuk one, but it's the same principle.
   708. Zipperholes Posted: July 21, 2010 at 02:21 PM (#3594992)
I haven't been following this thread so I apologize if this has been covered: why is cap hit for a given year determined by average salary over the life of the contract rather than that year's salary? It don't make no sense.
   709. zack Posted: July 21, 2010 at 02:54 PM (#3595046)
There are justifications for doing it either way. You could have the Islanders signing someone to 18-18-2-2-2-2-2-2-2, for example, because they are waaaaay under the salary floor at the moment, but might be better in a few years when all their high draft picks develop. You could also have an unsrcrupulous GM who knows he will be long gone in 5 years sign someone to a horribly backloaded deal, as well. The NHL probably thought the average value would help avoid some shenanigans, but there is definitely a huge loophole for pre-35 long-term deals currently.

I personally think that some compromise is the best option, use the AAV but limit how much the yearly salary can vary. (They limit how much it can vary year-to-year currently, but not total variance).
   710. Jimmy P Posted: July 21, 2010 at 03:32 PM (#3595099)
There is a clause in the CBA that states teams can't make deals that attempt to circumventing the cap. But if the NHL is going to argue this, how did they not void the Hossa & Luongo deals?*

And that will probably be the NHLPA's argument. Because while these deals certainly violate the spirit of the salary cap, they still follow the rules of the cap. But, the NHL commissioner's office is pretty stupid (just watch the Wheel of Punishment when it comes to headshots and cheap shots), and last year they just gave warnings. I find it hard to believe that the NHLPA won't be able to win a grievance here if they appeal. Also, on the labor front, the NHLPA is trying to hire Don Fehr. It seems they don't want to get their asses handed to them in the next labor negotiation.

You could have the Islanders signing someone to 18-18-2-2-2-2-2-2-2, for example, because they are waaaaay under the salary floor at the moment

Actually, you can't. There are rules to protect a drop in salary like this. If you make like $10M+, you can't drop to $1M in a year or so.
   711. Cabbage Posted: July 21, 2010 at 03:33 PM (#3595100)
Duncan Keith's deal is a better example of one that takes advantage of the average salary rule without becoming ridiculous.

From the Third Man In:
27 ~ 2010/11 ~ $8,000,000
28 ~ 2011/12 ~ $8,000,000
29 ~ 2012/13 ~ $8,000,000
30 ~ 2013/14 ~ $7,650,000
31 ~ 2014/15 ~ $7,600,000
32 ~ 2015/16 ~ $7,500,000
33 ~ 2016/17 ~ $6,000,000
34 ~ 2017/18 ~ $5,000,000
35 ~ 2018/19 ~ $4,500,000
36 ~ 2019/20 ~ $3,500,000
37 ~ 2020/21 ~ $2,650,000
38 ~ 2021/22 ~ $2,100,000
39 ~ 2022/23 ~ $1,500,000
   712. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: July 21, 2010 at 06:35 PM (#3595335)
Steve Yzerman is the Lightning GM? I missed that bit o' news.
   713. Langer Monk Posted: July 21, 2010 at 07:44 PM (#3595418)
Don't forget Luongo's deal:

10 - 6.7 - 6.7 - 6.7 - 6.7 - 6.7 - 6.7 - 6.7 - 3.4 - 1.6 - 1 - 1. Ends when he is 43.

I haven't been following this thread so I apologize if this has been covered: why is cap hit for a given year determined by average salary over the life of the contract rather than that year's salary? It don't make no sense.

That's what the NHLPA and NHL agreed upon in the CBA.

If the League wasn't run by morons, this whole loophole could have been closed by stating something like, the highest yearly dollar amount can't be more than twice the lowest. (IE, in Kovy's case, if $11.5M is the highest single year salary, the lowest in the same contract could be no lower than $5.75M). But they didn't.

And the League doesn't (or shouldn't) have the ability to change terms in the CBA in the middle of its term. Cap circumvention is a cop-out. Hossa's is cap circumvention, Pronger's is, Luongo's is.

Someone on another board somewhere said (paraphrasing): You can't be surprised for being pulled over do 20 mph over the limit, even if the other drivers are 10 over.

Meanwhile, the better analogy is: This road has no speed limit, and the Devils just got pulled over for speeding.

(For the record, yes I'm a Devil fan; no, I've no problem with Hossa, Pronger, Luongo or any other contract to date)

Finally, the 44 year old argument is a red herring. Here is hockey reference's list of seasons by players over the age of 40. Chelios, Hasek, Larionov, Claude Lemieux, Messier, Andreychuk, Roberts, Albelin, Belfour, Brett Hull, Joseph, Oates, Roberts, Bourque, Burke, Francis, Mario Lemieux, MacInnis, Mellanby, Nieuwendyk, Numminen, Patrick, Recchi, Shanahan, Thomas, Yzerman. All played a season over the age of 40 in the last 10 seasons.

Yup, no reason at all to believe that there will be more 40 year old players in the NHL in the next 10-20 years. None.
   714. Eddo Posted: July 21, 2010 at 08:08 PM (#3595451)
Langer Monk: I agree with you. If the player's association pushes hard enough, I would hope they win and that Kovy's contract stands.
   715. Jimmy P Posted: July 21, 2010 at 08:08 PM (#3595452)
Meanwhile, the better analogy is: This road has no speed limit, and the Devils just got pulled over for speeding.

I totally agree. I think the NHLPA should appeal, and I think they'll win. Because just last summer, the NHL was letting this go even when stories were coming out that they didn't like it. And, now we're letting the NHL void deals because they assume a guy will retire?
   716. zack Posted: August 02, 2010 at 04:02 PM (#3606111)
Looks like the Blackhawks capocolypse is over, Niemi 'won' $2.75 in arbitration, so the 'hawks walked away and signed Turco for between $1.3 and $1.75. $2.75 was really a poison award, it was just slightly too high for the Blackhawks to accept (they could have, but that would mean a 21-man roster), but still too low to really make Niemi happy. So it was either Sharp or Niemi and I think they made the right move.


I think the final roster will look something like this, 23-men but almost no room for injury replacements:

FORWARDS
Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m)
Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m) / Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)
Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Jack Skille ($0.600m)
Bryan Bickell ($0.541m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m) / Jeff Taffe ($0.550m)
/ Evan Brophey ($0.500m) / Robert Klinkhammer ($0.500m)

DEFENSEMEN
Brian Campbell ($7.142m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)
Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m)
Shawn Lalonde ($0.773m) / Jordan Hendry ($0.650m)
John Scott ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS
Marty Turco ($1.500m) /Corey Crawford ($0.800m)
   717. Cabbage Posted: August 02, 2010 at 06:30 PM (#3606304)
TSN says Turco is at 1.3. Without engaging in actual arithmetic, I suspect that leaves room for an injury replacement or two. Possibly a Kyle Beach callup/bailout of Rockford Lockup.
   718. Cabbage Posted: August 04, 2010 at 08:22 PM (#3608331)
WRT the Huet to Europe/Rockford situation, are there still any teams that are trying to reach the cap floor?
   719. zack Posted: August 05, 2010 at 04:21 PM (#3609084)
Atlanta and Colorado are the only teams under the floor, but both have two (decent) goalies signed. Atlanta only needs to fill out with minimum salary players to reach the floor, and Colorado isn't much different. I don't see it, unless we give up something worthwhile along with Huet.

Edit: and that ignores the fact that he's signed for 2011. Definitely don't see it.
   720. zack Posted: August 09, 2010 at 09:52 PM (#3612292)
   721. Cabbage Posted: August 11, 2010 at 03:24 PM (#3613824)
And now word is that they'll move after the extensions that havent taken effect yet: Luongo, Pronger, etc.

I think Hossa's safe because his deal has already begun, but I'm not sure.
   722. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: September 22, 2010 at 01:43 AM (#3645538)
apparently bill guerin is playing for the flyers.
   723. Cabbage Posted: September 22, 2010 at 03:58 PM (#3645963)
anyone up for some fearless predictions?

I think St. Louis might be decent. Johnson should be a beast. I'll also say that the Kings have a shot at winning the West.

channeling TMQ, all predictions wrong, or your money back
   724. The Original SJ Posted: September 23, 2010 at 04:39 PM (#3646920)
hockey primer fantasy league this season?
   725. Jimmy P Posted: September 23, 2010 at 11:28 PM (#3647281)
hockey primer fantasy league this season?

I stopped playing fantasy hockey because no matter how good your team is, the team with the best two goalies wins. 50% of the roto-scoring is usually goalie categories, and that's just way too many. Especially in today's NHL where rather average goalies win the Stanley Cup. I can be convinced, but I that's my skepticism
   726. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: September 28, 2010 at 04:50 PM (#3650377)
apparently ian laperierre is still have post concussion issues. the injury was sustained in the first round of last year's playoffs, and if you remember, he came back to play in the eastern conference and stanley cup finals. it is believed that he lied to the medical staff and was still experiencing issues when he came back.
   727. Cabbage Posted: October 07, 2010 at 01:50 PM (#3657257)
Its not quite like baseball's opening day, but I'm certainly looking forward to the games.
   728. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: October 07, 2010 at 02:01 PM (#3657269)
Hard to fit them in around baseball and Nebraska-KState, but I think I will put Habs-Leafs up on GameCenter and keep an eye on it. GameCenter looks better this year, as full-screen looks like it's actually full screen, and there isn't a big bar of scores at the top of the screen and big bar of controls at the bottom even though it's full-screen. I was hoping they would do that, it had to be something people complained about.
   729. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: October 07, 2010 at 02:18 PM (#3657287)
I'm excited to see how this year's Blackhawks team will do. They're not quite as deep as they have been in years past, but they managed to retain all their most talented players. Now they've just got to keep those guys healthy.
   730. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: October 07, 2010 at 03:09 PM (#3657358)
The Hawks will still be very good. They're probably co-favorites with Detroit to win the division, and wouldn't be huge underdogs to any Western team in the playoffs. That's all you can ask for until the games start.

This is pretty cool.
   731. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: October 29, 2010 at 11:31 PM (#3679667)
this flyers-penguins game is kind of interesting. two fights in the first minute, hartnell got taken down and went ass first into the boards, requiring a stop in play, and there's been 32 PIMs in 8 minutes of gameplay.


and the flyers just let in the first goal. that was a real nice play by letang to get free on the break.
   732. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: October 29, 2010 at 11:48 PM (#3679674)
Jody Shelley got his ass kicked in his fight.

Too bad I turned the game on a touch late, just when that fight started. I hope Cooke got bludgeoned.
   733. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: October 29, 2010 at 11:50 PM (#3679678)
And Pronger wears size 7.5 skates? I did not know that.

Guffaw.
   734. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: October 29, 2010 at 11:57 PM (#3679683)

Jody Shelley got his ass kicked in his fight.

Too bad I turned the game on a touch late, just when that fight started. I hope Cooke got bludgeoned.
yes, and yes. richards got in a few good shots, but he was an idiot to get involved with him. they've got carcillo, shelley, and o'donnell to take care of the fisticuffs. richards is the team's best player; what the #### was he doing fighting matt ####### cooke off the opening faceoff?
   735. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: October 30, 2010 at 12:17 AM (#3679692)
Here is why Richards got involved with Cooke. Now if only Crosby would actually fight Carcillo. Probably the only opponent I would root for Carcillo to beat. But no way Crosby has the balls to try it.
   736. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: October 30, 2010 at 12:27 AM (#3679694)

Here is why Richards got involved with Cooke. Now if only Crosby would actually fight Carcillo. Probably the only opponent I would root for Carcillo to beat. But no way Crosby has the balls to try it.
he fought derian hatcher his first year in the league.

i'd be very surprised if he tried his hand at that again.


and richards is right. the penguins go to the ice with any stick contact. hell, the entire league does. it's what the new NHL is all about.
   737. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 01, 2010 at 09:23 PM (#3681569)
danny briere was suspended 3 games for being a cheap POS.

he deserved it for the two handed cross check, but i'm taking it as a good sign that he's only gone for 3, considering he's a flyer and all.


on a related note, the flyers have had 5 guys rack up fighting majors this season. hartnell, o'donnell, richards, carcillo, and shelley. missing from this list are any number of minor league goons yet to be called up, chris pronger, blair betts, ian laperierre, matt walker, and braydon coburn.


oh, and sergei bobrovski is 5-2 with a .917 save %.
   738. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: November 01, 2010 at 09:30 PM (#3681576)
what the #### was he doing fighting matt ####### cooke off the opening faceoff?


Doing his duty. Cooke should get smeared in the first game of the season between any team and the Pens.
   739. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 01, 2010 at 09:44 PM (#3681584)

Doing his duty. Cooke should get smeared in the first game of the season between any team and the Pens.
leave it to carcillo. i get the whole lead by example thing, but cooke is a punk, and richards is the captain. he shouldn't be off the ice for 5 minutes because of this ####### guy.
   740. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: November 01, 2010 at 11:02 PM (#3681618)
leave it to carcillo.


True. Carcillo is useless otherwise, anyway. He'd be public enemy #1 if Cooke didn't exist.

And yes, I'm a Bruins fan.
   741. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 02, 2010 at 12:03 AM (#3681648)


True. Carcillo is useless otherwise, anyway. He'd be public enemy #1 if Cooke didn't exist.

And yes, I'm a Bruins fan.


at least carcillo's not randy jones.

plus, carcillo has an awesome set of teeth.


also, he's just a goon. most every team has a carcillo. if i were choosing someone on the flyers to hate, i'd go after richards. he's just as dirty, but he's actually good, and gets a lot more icetime. or, if you're a goalie, hartnell should be enemy #2 (behind sean avery) for what he does in front of the net. plus he's actually kind of good, but really only in odd numbered years.
   742. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: November 02, 2010 at 12:59 AM (#3681745)
I can't think of anyone comparable to Carcillo on the Bruins.
   743. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: November 04, 2010 at 02:05 AM (#3683531)
Interesting 2nd period in Dallas tonight. Loui Eriksson undressed Brent Johnson on a penalty shot. As Jeremy Roenick would say, they will be pulling Johnson's jock out of the rafters after the game tonight.

Then after a Morrow and Letang fight, the courageous Sidney Crosby dropped the gloves right off a draw with Matt Niskanen, a 6'0" defenseman with 18 PIMs in 74 games last season. Oh, you are such a bad, bad man, Crosby.

And now Kunitz and Jamie Benn just went at it.
   744. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 05, 2010 at 01:49 AM (#3684273)
flyers scored 4 unanswered to beat the rangers tonight, 4-1.

claude giroux is amazing. that behind the back bullet pass on richards' goal was stupifying. here's hoping he gets locked up before hitting the RFA market this summer. i think jeff carter is an impending RFA, as well. that could be ugly.

bobrovski notched his (and the team's) 5th straight victory, putting bob at 7-2-0 on the year, and giving the team 17 points through 13 games.


also, if you want a laugh, going in to tonight's game, danny briere had the same number of PIMs as dan carcillo. carcillo kinda pulled ahead with a fighting major in the 3rd period, but it's still kinda entertaining.
   745. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 08, 2010 at 03:49 PM (#3685824)
great effort by the flyers last night to steal a point from washington. they killed off a double minor on pronger with 4 minutes left in the third, but there was a phantom boarding penalty called with 30 seconds left in the period, and WAS scored on the ensuing PP in the first minute of overtime to get the win.

it was a great game to watch, though. it had an excellent flow, bobrovski stood on his head for a while, and the flyers physically matched up with the bigger team about as well as could be expected.

i know it'd be a tough draw, but i want this series in the ECF this year. that could be tremendous if the refs don't throw the series.
   746. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 09, 2010 at 12:36 AM (#3686346)
here's hoping he gets locked up before hitting the RFA market this summer.
and thank ####### christ. giroux just signed a 3 year/$11.25 million contract. getting giroux locked up now means no blackhawk apocalypse this summer. and he's worth so much more than this, too.

and if i'm not mistaken, giroux will still be an RFA when this deal expires, so really, this has to be one of the best non-ELCs in the league, right?


i'm in absolute awe right now.
   747. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 12, 2010 at 01:11 AM (#3688519)
whatever happened to that rule about staging fights right off of faceoffs?
   748. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: November 12, 2010 at 01:21 AM (#3688522)
The instigator means that staged fights are much more common than non-staged. Even fights that don't come right off a draw are usually just one goon skating over to another and tapping him on the shin pad.

A predominance of staged fights and pests, aka gutless punks, are what the instigator hath wrought.
   749. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: November 12, 2010 at 04:23 AM (#3688616)
And the headshot rule is already resulting in guys faking concussions. Stoll just got hit shoulder to shoulder and went down, looked up for a moment to see if anyone noticed his "injury" and apparently got a response indicating he should continue the act and so he put his head back down and exacerbated his condition even more. Thankfully the refs didn't go for it and the Stars got a PP after an instigator on the ensuing fight.
   750. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: November 12, 2010 at 06:01 AM (#3688646)
Dustin Brown has to be stopped. He has this captain's rep of integrity and he is the most shameless piece of #### diver around.
   751. JL Posted: November 12, 2010 at 01:32 PM (#3688707)
So about a fifth of the way into the season, the two big surprises I see are:

1) Montreal continuing their great play. Perhaps I should not call this a surprise, in so far as I thought they would be a solid playoff contender. However, I am surprised to see them on top of the Northeast division.

2) The strength of the Central Division. Currently only the defending Stanley Cup Champions are below .500 (and only by one loss at that), with St. Louis looking great. Again, I recognize that the Blues will come back to earth, but there does not look to be a push over in the bunch.
   752. Cabbage Posted: November 12, 2010 at 01:54 PM (#3688713)
Dont forget the Devils, hockey's Atlanta Braves, turning into the Whalers.

Frankly, the other big surprise is that the reigning Norris Trophy winner has played like a big fat ball of suck this season.
   753. JL Posted: November 12, 2010 at 02:15 PM (#3688725)
Good points Cabbage. As a Detroit fan, I admit to paying more attention to the West, so I have not had NJ on my radar. I am shocked about where they are, because they have historically done a great job in keeping competitive. Very surprising. I was tempted to mention Pittsburgh, but realized they did this two years ago as well.

Keith has been awful. I was not a fan of his winning (probably my bias), but was not offended by the choice. I figured his game would decline a bit, but not like this. I think he sat a good portion of the third period in a recent game. Not good for the Hawks.
   754. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 12, 2010 at 02:19 PM (#3688727)
Currently only the defending Stanley Cup Champions are below .500 (and only by one loss at that), with St. Louis looking great.
they're not in a good position right now. it's early and all, but every team in their division has 4 games in hand over them.

the flyers are second in the eastern conference in goals scored (and in the entire NHL, i believe, behind only WAS). they are also 4th in the eastern conference in goals allowed (behind MON, BOS, and FLA, but BOS and FLA have played 3 fewer games).

danny briere and jeff carter have 8 goals a piece. claude giroux has 7. nikolai zherdev and scott hartnell are sitting on 5. there's 6 more guys with at least 2 goals.

mike richards and ville leino have 10 assists. claude giroux has 9, giving him a team leading 16 points in 16 games.

as for the defense, i'm quite satisfied. timonen is under 23 minutes per game. coburn and pronger are under 22. carle, meszaros, and o'donnell are between 16 and 20. sean o'donnell leads the team with a +10, while notching a grand total of 0 goals and 0 assists.


and bobrovski. #### is he good. the work ethic is there, with him showing up to stretch at 10AM for a 5 o'clock start at WAS on the second leg of the first back to back in his NHL career despite the fact that there was no morning skate. he's quick as hell. post to post, it's amazing to see the ground he covers. he does a great job controlling rebounds, and when he does, he's very good at repositioning himself. he's got a good enough glove hand that i haven't really noticed it. and he's not a total abomination with the stick (he's actually been very deft in moving and controlling the puck).



basically, there's not enough minutes in the game for all of the awesomeness on this roster to be displayed.
   755. JL Posted: November 12, 2010 at 03:09 PM (#3688758)
the flyers are second in the eastern conference in goals scored (and in the entire NHL, i believe, behind only WAS).

But they have only a 7 goal lead on Detroit with two extra games in hand. Nevertheless, your point stands that the Flyers offense looks great as does their defense. Seems like they will be a force in the East.

I will say it is difficult to compare some of the numbers at this point due to the differences in games played and schedule. I also am trying not to jump to conclusions to quickly. For example, the St. Louis defense looks incredible, with only 27 actual goals allowed over 14 games. However, they have played a very weak schedule (as have the Wings), so I want to see how they play against some more quality competition.
   756. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 12, 2010 at 04:14 PM (#3688821)
just saw this on csnphilly.com:

RALEIGH, N.C. -- [Jeff Carter's] next contract with the Flyers is expected to be signed before the month is out.

And according to two sources, it figures to be 10 years, virtually guaranteeing that center turned winger Jeff Carter will spend most, if not his entire career, in orange ‘n black, much like best buddy Mike Richards.


the writer is a hack, so there's the chance that he's completely off the mark, but if he's not...

for 2011-12, the flyers apparently have ~51 million committed to 6 forwards (richards, giroux, briere, hartnell, shelley, betts), 7 defensemen (pronger, timonen, coburn, carle, meszaros, bartulis, and walker, and 2 goalies (bobrovski, leighton). italics indicate players in the last year (2011-2012) of their contract. powe, nodl, and carcillo would be the only RFAs. zherdev, leino, and o'donnell are all UFAs.

looking at that, i guess the flyers do have the ability to go big in resigning carter. i might say that keeping leino is equally, if not more, important. my god, we were so ####### lucky to pluck him from detroit.


can someone explain to me how, in just 5 years since losing an entire season, the salary cap has gone up from 39 million to 60? did they just pick the one number out of a hat, because it seems like they grossly overestimated the graveness of their financial situation.

i guess there's 10 or so teams that are in perpetual danger of collapsing, but the lockout occurred because the owners wouldn't agree to the $49 million (american) cap that they had first proposed, and instead played hardball looking for that knockout $39 million one with a 15% rollback in standing contracts.

of course, the cap was up to $49 million in 2 years, so it's probably not a big surprise that it's up to 60+ after another 3 years.


it's a good thing they fired the guy who was behind that whole abomination.

what? he's still commissioner? oh. ####.
   757. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 13, 2010 at 11:31 PM (#3689539)
jeff carter: 11 years, 58 million.


goodbye, ville.
   758. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 14, 2010 at 01:31 AM (#3689595)
8 minutes left in the second period in FLA. 5-0 so far. richards and giroux have 2 goals a piece, and bobrovski is going for his first NHL shutout still waiting for his first NHL shutout.


5-1 on a deflection by a high stick.

i think the refs just want to get out of here, tonight.
   759. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 14, 2010 at 04:34 AM (#3689660)
just for a laugh:

mike richards, claude giroux, and jeff carter are all signed through 2013-2014 (and carter and richards are both here pretty much until the 23rd century) for an annual cap hit of 14.7 million.

over in pittsburgh, crosby and malkin are signed for 17.4 million, with crosby being a UFA after the 2012-2013 season.



i've been on him a bit for prioritizing carter (who would have been an RFA) over leino (who will be a UFA), but homer's done real good.
   760. JL Posted: November 19, 2010 at 03:03 PM (#3693570)
Heck of a lot of offense in the Philly game last night. Have not seen anything like that in awhile.

On a different note, I am ticked at the four letter network right now. On Wednesday, the Wings played the Blues - a big rivalry with the lead in the Central Division at stake. I could not see the game, but followed on the game cast. I switched my TV to check the highlights and see how St. Louis lost it when they gave up four goals in about five minutes. Rather than give highlights about the actual games played, they showed some from a couple games, then had Melrose and Barnaby spend 3-4 minutes genuflecting in front of the Sidney Crosby altar, noting that he makes everyone better. Of course, they noted that Malkin plays unevenly, so perhaps Crosby does not make him better, but anyway. Of course, I am really to blame for expecting more and then being mad when don't give it.

Finally, anyone have thoughts on the Campbell emails? I don't see how they can keep him in that position. Then again, this is the NHL, and Bettman runs it like a bannana republic, so I expect Campbell to be promoted.
   761. Cabbage Posted: November 19, 2010 at 04:20 PM (#3693648)
If there are financial penalties, then I can't see how Campbell could survive a challenge from the union.
   762. JL Posted: November 19, 2010 at 04:36 PM (#3693673)
If there are financial penalties, then I can't see how Campbell could survive a challenge from the union.

I would think so as well, particularly since Donald Fehr will be heading up the NHL PA now. But the NHL seems to be run with out any care for its perception.
   763. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: November 20, 2010 at 04:10 PM (#3694252)
The Cooke hit on Savard was so textbook as a punishable offense even before the head shot rule was put in place that the only explanation was that something was wrong with Colin Campbell's head. We all knew there was something, but now we know what was going on up there. For him to still be in this position even today is laughable. If he still is next season, there will not be words to describe how pathetic and sick it is.
   764. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 20, 2010 at 04:58 PM (#3694276)


Finally, anyone have thoughts on the Campbell emails? I don't see how they can keep him in that position. Then again, this is the NHL, and Bettman runs it like a bannana republic, so I expect Campbell to be promoted.
here's the source of information for those who aren't quite aware:

http://www.mc79hockey.com/

Heck of a lot of offense in the Philly game last night. Have not seen anything like that in awhile.
steven stamkos is the truth. his wrist shot is amazing.

bobrovsky was starting his 12th straight game, so was likely a little tired, but but when guys are snap shotting pucks through the back of the net, it's just not a good night for goalies. that's a real tough game to watch, and a real tough game to lose, but hey, at least giroux was padding his point totals. and i guess it's a good enough sign that all 7 goals the flyers scored were even strength.


it sucks a little bit that, for as great as the flyers were playing, pittsburgh is just 2 points behind us. 2 points and 1 game in hand is not nearly enough of a cushion.
   765. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 20, 2010 at 09:50 PM (#3694460)
flyers-capitals tonight, by the way. top two teams in the eastern conference. i want a regulation win.
   766. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: November 25, 2010 at 03:51 AM (#3697127)
flyers put up 6 tonight against minnesota. i know minnesota can't score, but they dominated on faceoffs (37-18) and still only managed 16 shots.

goal scorers:
nodl
briere
leino
shelley
carter
JVR


andreas nodl now has 6 goals and 10 points. for a reference, he is tied for 6th on the flyers in goals, and all alone with the 9th most points. on the wild (and i do know they've played 3 fewer games, but nodl has only played in 14, himself), he'd be 2nd in goals, and tied for 5th in points.



this team is really ####### good. like, really, really scary ####### good.
   767. Cabbage Posted: December 13, 2010 at 08:26 PM (#3709677)
By this way this is off topic (and I think I'm doing everyone a favor), but what about a catch-all NFL thread? As long as there are mega soccer and basketball threads, I don't see why an NFL thread would be out of bounds.


E-Mail Jim. I'm sure he's willing to do it, since he's tolerate the soccer and basketball threads. They just need a keeper (as I'm keeper of the soccer thread). If you're able to do it, he'll go for it.

No one loves us.
   768. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: December 15, 2010 at 03:56 AM (#3711034)
No one loves us.
we suck, to be honest. this thread was pretty much just me talking about the flyers until i gave up since there was noone else contributing.
   769. Cabbage Posted: December 16, 2010 at 02:33 PM (#3712144)
Good golly do the Blackhawks suck. Sure, it hurts to have Hossa and Kane out, but Morin, Stalberg, etc have played fine. Its Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarrson, etc.

Seabrook been directly responsible for about 5 goals against in the past two games. How do a pair of established defensemen just fall off the cliff like that?
   770. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: January 29, 2011 at 01:08 AM (#3738662)
so this NHL all star fantasy draft is 5 minutes old and i'm already disgusted.
   771. ursus arctos Posted: February 02, 2011 at 11:08 PM (#3742042)
What disgusted you?

The bromance quotient?

Briere getting dissed in the original selections?

Or are you the only person in North America who likes Phil Kessel?
   772. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: February 02, 2011 at 11:26 PM (#3742056)
Well, the only person who isn't a Bruins fan who likes Kessel. They love him.
   773. ursus arctos Posted: February 02, 2011 at 11:34 PM (#3742070)
Not a tenth as much as they love Brian Burke.
   774. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: February 02, 2011 at 11:41 PM (#3742080)

What disgusted you?
cam ward being selected ahead of steven stamkos.
   775. ursus arctos Posted: February 02, 2011 at 11:50 PM (#3742084)
That was the first thing that set the Bromance Meter quivering. Stahl's use of "my boy, Cam Ward" almost broke it.

Have you seen any of Erik Gustafsson from the AHL All Star Weekend? He's a good bet for your playoff roster.
   776. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: February 02, 2011 at 11:51 PM (#3742085)
Not a tenth as much as they love Brian Burke.

I almost had an addendum referring to that. But, the chant goes "Thank you Kes-sel!".
   777. ursus arctos Posted: February 03, 2011 at 12:00 AM (#3742097)
They're waiting for the second lottery pick to change the chant.
   778. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: February 03, 2011 at 12:47 AM (#3742137)
Have you seen any of Erik Gustafsson from the AHL All Star Weekend? He's a good bet for your playoff roster.
no, i haven't seen much of him, and god i hope he's not on the playoff roster. the flyers top 6 Dmen are a combined +93. if gustafsson is replacing any of them, that's a blow.

the flyers have been a very stable team. 8 defensemen, 14 forwards, 3 goalies. that's pretty bare-bones considering we're 50 games into the season.
   779. ursus arctos Posted: February 03, 2011 at 03:25 AM (#3742232)
I'm thinking that one of them is going to get hurt. You've been fortunate so far.

The thread is resurrected and we get a goalie fight.

Omen?
   780. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: February 03, 2011 at 03:34 AM (#3742235)
I haven't seen the fight, but I think it's kinda funny that an Isles goalie gets into a fight, but I know it isn't Roloson because he's gone to TB. Roloson has to be the most likely goalie to fight in any given game. I have no doubt that guy plays hopped up on some serious ####. Can't stand him.
   781. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: February 03, 2011 at 03:59 AM (#3742253)

I'm thinking that one of them is going to get hurt. You've been fortunate so far.
i think there might be a move soon. it seems like the organization is pushing nikolai zherdev out the door, and they've been working to clear the cap by waiving matt walker and michael leighton.

i don't really like any of those things. zherdev is a mercenary and there's virtually no chance the flyers will extend him an offer for '11-'12, but the guy's put up 15 goals with virtually no PP time. he's a floater, and a cherry picker, but he's producing.


there's been talk of a trade for another forward. they were in on jamie langenbruner apparently, but NJ didn't want to move him in division. there's rumblings about eric cole, for some reason i'm not quite sure of. there was a rumor a few months back about jerome iginla. that'd be stupefyingly awesome, but it's unlikely.


the organization has been patting their own backs about the defense and goalie situation. not so much for the quality of the latter, but for the fact that they're paying both rostered goalies less than a million a piece. the quality of the former is in no doubt. braydon coburn's just a guy, and sean o'donnell seems to be fading after a really good start to the season.


another interesting thing is that the flyers have virtually no farm system at this point. they've decimated their pipeline with trades over the last 5 years for timonen, hartnell, pronger, eminger, coburn, vandermeer, kukkonen (who really should be in the NHL still), hamhuis, and carcillo (that one killed, by the way. since getting sent to phoenix, scottie upshall's scored 40 goals in 119 games. the only reason, and it's actually a good one, that that trade got made was because they were at the upper limit, and they needed to activate claude giroux). anyway, their system was ranked 28th in the league as of november, and there's really been no breakout performances, aside from that of bobrovsky.


i don't think that's much of a concern so long as the cap keeps going up. compare the salaries of the flyers top 3 centers, carter, richards, and giroux, against the pengions top 3 centers, and you'll see that 1 team has a cap hit of 14.7 million, and the other has a cap hit of 21.4 million. i know crosby is kind of good, but you can buy a hell of a lot of talent for that $6+ million gap.



that's probably a few too many words considering this thread will be dead again in 2 days. i'll stop here.
   782. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: February 03, 2011 at 04:44 AM (#3742285)
Who is the most unprofessional goalie in hockey? I ask because DiPietro dekeing out Matt Cooke so that Cooke *would* run into him, then challenging Johnson, who is standing in his own net on the other end of the ice, to a fight--well, I'd say that's pretty much up there.

Another contender is Justin Peters--he of the open-field tackle of a Bruins player (garnering himself a holding penalty in the process) last week.
   783. DA Baracus Posted: February 03, 2011 at 04:54 AM (#3742292)
another interesting thing is that the flyers have virtually no farm system at this point


Which isn't a huge problem since every key player is under contract for at least two more years or will be an RFA, and the Flyers aren't a particularly old team (well, the D is anchored by old guys, but the forwards aren't).
   784. DA Baracus Posted: February 03, 2011 at 05:17 AM (#3742312)
Matt Cooke deserves anything and everything he gets by way of a beating. He's one of the biggest turds in the league.
   785. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: February 03, 2011 at 05:48 AM (#3742329)
Matt Cooke deserves anything and everything he gets by way of a beating. He's one of the biggest turds in the league.


Yeah, it was funny how little I felt bad for Cooke after that play. Oh wait, I'm a Bruins fan.
   786. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: February 03, 2011 at 05:49 AM (#3742332)
Also--do you get suspended for elbowing a guy on purpose during a fight (as Johnson did to DiPietro)?
   787. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: February 03, 2011 at 06:32 AM (#3742351)
,i>
Who is the most unprofessional goalie in hockey? I ask because DiPietro dekeing out Matt Cooke so that Cooke *would* run into him, then challenging Johnson, who is standing in his own net on the other end of the ice, to a fight--well, I'd say that's pretty much up there.</i>

I should watch the Eastern Conference more...
   788. ursus arctos Posted: February 03, 2011 at 01:03 PM (#3742390)
I wanted Matt Cooke to be in the All Star Game just to see how uncomfortable it would be for Stahl or Lindstrom to pick him. He makes Sean Avery look like a role model.

The Flyers' farm system is indeed abject, with Adirondack setting new standards for AHL futility, but Gustafsson (who signed from Sweden in March) is genuine quality. As a former pond hockey goalie, I'm troubled by the low cost approach the Flyers have pioneered, but it certainly seems to be working.
   789. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: February 03, 2011 at 01:12 PM (#3742393)
There is literally nothing that a player could do to Matt Cooke that would make me think that player did something wrong.
   790. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: February 03, 2011 at 07:21 PM (#3742795)
Is he the biggest d-bag in the league? I might have gone with a guy like Avery or Steve Ott.
   791. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: February 03, 2011 at 07:23 PM (#3742798)
Also, I'm looking at Brad Marchand as my rookie of the year, but I realize that a) it might be a homer pick, and b) I see more of Marchand than any other candidate. For all I know Jeff Skinner might be an excellent two-way player much as Marchand is.
   792. zack Posted: February 03, 2011 at 09:54 PM (#3742940)
Cooke is just a run-of-the-mill ######### with a signature event. He's the Jack Morris of ##########. Can't touch Avery's staying power.

While it is completely antithetical to the way I play and enjoy playing sports, and the way I enjoy viewing all other sports, I do have a great fondness for the subtle ########## in the NHL, like Pat Kaleta and Dustin Brown (though he plays actual hockey as well).
   793. Cabbage Posted: February 03, 2011 at 09:57 PM (#3742948)
#781, yeah, the flyers are really strong at the moment. I have to think they're the favorites in the east at this point, especially if Sid's noggin has turned to mush.

Anyone putting much stock in the Bruins? I can't myself.
   794. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: February 03, 2011 at 10:06 PM (#3742962)
Anyone putting much stock in the Bruins? I can't myself.


As usual I am taking a wait-and-see approach on the team. I might have gone out on more of a limb if Savard hadn't gone down again.
   795. ursus arctos Posted: February 03, 2011 at 10:48 PM (#3743010)
Pens have put Sid on long term injured reserve to free up cap room.

Avery can actually play hockey as well.

I think that Couture is going to win RoY; too much media attention already. Marchand will be overlooked because he's on the same team as Seguin, who has hit a wall (not in a Savardian sense).
   796. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: February 03, 2011 at 11:17 PM (#3743035)
It's a close race so far this year. I haven't heard a lot about Couture on the east coast--mostly it's been Skinner that's been discussed. Looking at the stats, Marchand probably doesn't deserve a shot since he's only played 13 minutes a game (Couture has 18). But then, the argument could be made that Marchand has done more with his minutes. Either way, in order to make the determination, you'd have to look at the strength of the players he's played against, and the situations (Marchand is often out there on the PK).
   797. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: February 04, 2011 at 12:18 AM (#3743073)
Bruins/Stars tonight: Three fights in the first three seconds.

Two goals.

18:40 left in the first.

EDIT: And a goalie change.

EDIT2: And a fourth fight after a way-late slapper.
   798. ursus arctos Posted: February 04, 2011 at 12:31 AM (#3743088)
WTF?

Is there a carryover beef of some sort?

I think your RoY analysis is too sophisticated, if we are looking at who will win vs. who should win.
   799. Justin T steals bases with his bat Posted: February 04, 2011 at 12:33 AM (#3743091)
Interesting beginning to say the least when you're looking at teams from different conferences. I have only now turned the sound on as I was on the phone so don't know if the Dallas announcers were able to provide any reasoning for these developments.
   800. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: February 04, 2011 at 12:47 AM (#3743102)
I was thinking about what guy *should* win.

The carryover beef is basically every game between these two teams because of Steve Ott. There was also a game from 2008 where Ott deliberately kneed Gregory Campbell when the latter was with Florida.

The first fight was between Campbell and Ott. Ott bloodied him, but the next three fights were all Bruins wins.
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