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Monday, August 19, 2019

Nightengale: MLB lifers decry the state of the modern baseball: ‘Unwatchable’

Said Gossage: “They got it so an [expletive] coming off the street who doesn’t even know what a damn baseball is can manage our sport. It’s like rotisserie baseball. These [expletives] won their rotisserie leagues at Harvard and all of those [expletive] schools and now they’re general [expletive] managers.”

 

Jack Sommers Posted: August 19, 2019 at 09:56 PM | 58 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: attendance, homers

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   1. Walt Davis Posted: August 20, 2019 at 12:27 AM (#5872776)
Not worth reading (even if you agree with them). It's Gossage, Rose and Piniella with Piniella claiming he never put a shift on anybody -- which is dumb if true. Nightengale's quote:

Meanwhile, look around the other leagues. Is there a greater NBA coach today than 70-year-old Gregg Popovich of the San Antonio Spurs? Who’s better than 67-year-old Bill Belichick of the New England Patriots? Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, 72, continues to get it done. And of course, 67-year-old football coach Nick Saban keeps rolling at Alabama.

And Maddon is 65, Francona is 60, Yost is 65, Snitker is 63, Hurdle is 62, Bochy is 64, Black is 62 ... and there might be others. Goose seems more on the money in his whinge about GMs (even Cashman is only 52) and being less up on baseball trends than Gossage isn't a good thing for a writer.
   2. Rob_Wood Posted: August 20, 2019 at 01:32 AM (#5872779)
They could have included Jim Kaat and John Smoltz (among others). They go on tv on the regular saying how terrible today's game is.
   3. Bote Man Posted: August 20, 2019 at 01:51 AM (#5872782)
Whatever Bob Nightingale says, the opposite is true.
   4. QLE Posted: August 20, 2019 at 04:20 AM (#5872787)
   5. Lest we forget Posted: August 20, 2019 at 05:30 AM (#5872789)
I like my games best at 3-2 or 4-0, with less than 7 pitchers combined for both teams.

I enjoy the occasional box score of a 15-9 game, as it's fun to see your favourite players or others getting 4 hits, including a couple of dingers. The Windy City!

What I'm not particularly fond of is the extremes to which pitcher usage has evolved. That said, today's game could be just the tip of the iceberg, and it might as well eventually deviate even further from what I grew up with in the 70's. Where art thou, Wilbur Wood and Mickey Lolich?

The 70's was a transitional decade, where stars who emerged during the so-call 'golden age' - Mantle, Mays, Aaron, F.Robbie, Clemente, Gibson - were either recently retired or at the end of their illustrious careers. Icons. Bigger than life. For me, they felt linked to the past more than players of the 80s and after.

You can't stop change and disruption. The 50's and 60's are dead.

Are there any fans on this site who are in their late teens or 20s? It would be so fine to hear their input as to the State of the Game they grew up with.





   6. manchestermets Posted: August 20, 2019 at 07:02 AM (#5872791)
I'm not saying that the writer formed a conclusion then went out and looked for a bunch of Abe Simpson types to support it, but that's exactly what happened.

There's a bit half way down the story that says:


ROBO-UMPIRES: An inside look at baseball's future

ATLANTIC LEAGUE RULES: Stealing first base and all the other MLB tests


That looks like it should be a couple of links, but they aren't (possibly because I'm getting "USA Today's EU experience). What's the stealing first thing about?
   7. Rally Posted: August 20, 2019 at 08:25 AM (#5872794)
Piniella claiming he never put a shift on anybody -- which is dumb if true


His last stint as a manager was 2007-2010 with the Cubs. Everybody was shifting on Ryan Howard at the time. I find it hard to believe that Lou was holding out. It's regular usage is new, but the shift is certainly not. Piniella was all of 3 years old when Lou Boudreau used it on Ted Williams.
   8. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: August 20, 2019 at 08:41 AM (#5872796)
pass
   9. Zonk Will Have the Chicken Kiev Posted: August 20, 2019 at 08:53 AM (#5872800)
Not worth reading (even if you agree with them). It's Gossage, Rose and Piniella with Piniella claiming he never put a shift on anybody -- which is dumb if true. Nightengale's quote:


I saw Piniella shift plenty of times during his last two years in Chicago.... He'd lean to his right, then after a few innings, he'd shift to leaning to his left.... and then repeat until the game was over.

Some people say he was shiftless during that period, but I always defend him because I saw it with my own eyes.
   10. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 20, 2019 at 09:31 AM (#5872817)

I like my games best at 3-2 or 4-0, with less than 7 pitchers combined for both teams.


I think its fine to have legit criticisms on the style of play - of course it is very subjective - I would rather have more contact and speed used. But an article that just says "this game sucks" without much constructive dialogue on how to fix it (kinda silly to expect teams not to use analytics now) is a waste of time.
   11. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 20, 2019 at 09:33 AM (#5872818)
What's the stealing first thing about?


'Stealing first base' and baseball's experimental Atlantic League rules

A midseason rule change gave batters the right to take off for first base on a passed ball or wild pitch, presenting an immediate quandary for hitters: Stay, and try to do greater damage, or go?


More here:

The rule is, the batter/baserunner may steal first base on any pitch not caught in flight. Basically, it’s the dropped-third-strike rule widened to seatbelt-extender size. The defensive play at first base is a force. The batter must have both feet out of the batter’s box and have made an affirmative move toward first to be considered in the act of stealing the base. This is the umpire’s judgment. Any runners on base are at that point in play as well, meaning, for example, an existing runner at first may be forced out at second base. Also, the batter/baserunner must commit before the first defensive player fields the ball.

A successful steal of first base is, again, recorded as a fielder’s choice, so as an out, with no stolen base awarded. It is, therefore, a selfless act, not unlike chopping a two-hopper to the second baseman with none out and a runner at second base, which is worth a few half-hearted high fives and an uncomfortable turn in the arbitration hearing.

“It is absolutely a work in progress,” White said. “The context of all of this is testing the rule.”
   12. Zonk Will Have the Chicken Kiev Posted: August 20, 2019 at 09:38 AM (#5872819)
Forget it, Jake.... it's Blernsball
   13. Graham & the 15-win "ARod Vortex of suck" Posted: August 20, 2019 at 09:47 AM (#5872821)
Are there any fans on this site who are in their late teens or 20s? It would be so fine to hear their input as to the State of the Game they grew up with.


I'm in my 20s for another month. Overall, I think the State of the Game is pretty good currently. I'd prefer fewer strikeouts, home runs, and relief appearances and longer outings by starters. Those things are always in flux, so I suspect some of them will swing back toward historical norms. The biggest problem, by far, is the pace of play. It's one thing to have a three hour game with lots of runs and balls in play. It's another thing to have a 3:15 game that has three home runs, seven relief appearances, 18 strikeouts, and finishes 4-2. It wasn't as big of a deal when I was in college, because I had all the time in the world. If I don't get home from work until seven pm, then there's no way I'm going to spend the next 3:15 watching a game, and then get ready for bed.

I still loving going to games and checking the box scores every morning.
   14. . Posted: August 20, 2019 at 09:58 AM (#5872824)
It's not just the style, it's the homogenization. The cultural parallel is the homogenization of regional cultures.
   15. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 20, 2019 at 10:00 AM (#5872827)
Meanwhile, look around the other leagues. Is there a greater NBA coach today than 70-year-old Gregg Popovich of the San Antonio Spurs? Who’s better than 67-year-old Bill Belichick of the New England Patriots? Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, 72, continues to get it done. And of course, 67-year-old football coach Nick Saban keeps rolling at Alabama.

This is soooooo dumb. Both the NFL, and the NBA have undergone arguably much much more severe tactical recent changes than baseball has (College sports can #### off, I have no idea, and I don't care). Show me a team that still plays like it is even 5-6 years ago, and I will show you a team that almost certainly sucks is picking at the top of the draft. And yeah, somebody like Bill Belichick can succeed even at an advanced age. But one, he is the greatest coach of all time. And two, he does so by continuously changing, evolving, and adapting. He is not running the same schemes he was 20 years ago, when he became a head coach. He is also one of the biggest scholars of the history of the game there is. He knows and understands what worked in every era of the game, and not just one. And most importantly, understands why it worked, and is able to learn the lessons from it, and devise things that will work in today's game.

Meanwhile, the NFL is in the middle of what the Ringer is calling the 'Wunderkind Revolution.' Where every team is looking for the next McVay, and trying to find head coaches, that are younger than some of the players.
   16. manchestermets Posted: August 20, 2019 at 10:15 AM (#5872832)
The rule is, the batter/baserunner may steal first base on any pitch not caught in flight. Basically, it’s the dropped-third-strike rule widened to seatbelt-extender size. The defensive play at first base is a force. The batter must have both feet out of the batter’s box and have made an affirmative move toward first to be considered in the act of stealing the base. This is the umpire’s judgment. Any runners on base are at that point in play as well, meaning, for example, an existing runner at first may be forced out at second base. Also, the batter/baserunner must commit before the first defensive player fields the ball.

A successful steal of first base is, again, recorded as a fielder’s choice, so as an out, with no stolen base awarded. It is, therefore, a selfless act, not unlike chopping a two-hopper to the second baseman with none out and a runner at second base, which is worth a few half-hearted high fives and an uncomfortable turn in the arbitration hearing.


Thanks. That's, um, interesting. I wonder what problem it's intended to solve?
   17. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: August 20, 2019 at 10:27 AM (#5872835)
Old Guys Complaining That They Don't Like Change.
   18. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: August 20, 2019 at 10:30 AM (#5872836)
Thanks. That's, um, interesting. I wonder what problem it's intended to solve?

It's just another small way to reward speed and get runners on base, which I think are good things. I suppose it also rewards pitchers with good control and catchers who catch.

I was at an Atlantic League game a few weeks ago and saw this happen. It took me a split second to realize what the heck the batter was doing. To his credit, he recognized the opportunity as soon as the ball went by the catcher and correctly calculated he could beat the throw. I'm all for introducing little wrinkles like this that encourage quick decisions.
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 20, 2019 at 10:31 AM (#5872837)
I'd prefer fewer strikeouts, home runs, and relief appearances and longer outings by starters. Those things are always in flux, so I suspect some of them will swing back toward historical norms. The biggest problem, by far, is the pace of play. It's one thing to have a three hour game with lots of runs and balls in play. It's another thing to have a 3:15 game that has three home runs, seven relief appearances, 18 strikeouts, and finishes 4-2. It wasn't as big of a deal when I was in college, because I had all the time in the world. If I don't get home from work until seven pm, then there's no way I'm going to spend the next 3:15 watching a game, and then get ready for bed.

I still loving going to games and checking the box scores every morning.


Co-sign. I went to the Yanks-Sox at the Stadium a couple of weeks back, and experienced a rare crisp game between the two. 2:41 4-2 game. It was a pleasure. I was actually home by 11.

If I were commissioner, I'd have 4 objectives taped up on the walls at MLB HQ: 1) avg. game time 2:30, 2) K/9 <7, 3) HR/G <1, avg. SP outing >6 IP.
   20. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 20, 2019 at 10:32 AM (#5872838)
Old Guys Complaining That They Don't Like Change.

Au contraire. It's old guys (and young guys) asking for lots of change.

I want a hard pitch clock, a deadened ball, and roster restrictions on the number of pitchers, just to start. I'm open to pushing the mound back, or shrinking the strike zone, if the deader ball tanks offense too much.

Lots and lots of change.
   21. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: August 20, 2019 at 10:43 AM (#5872842)
Au contraire. It's old guys (and young guys) asking for lots of change.

You and the other old guys are advocating for reversing changes to make things how they used to be.

That is the opposite of change.


   22. Zonk Will Have the Chicken Kiev Posted: August 20, 2019 at 10:51 AM (#5872845)
Until we go back to B&W broadcasts, people wearing ties in the stands, and pink chalk posing as gum in baseball card waxpacks -- I really do not see how the game can survive.
   23. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 20, 2019 at 10:52 AM (#5872846)
You and the other old guys are advocating for reversing changes to make things how they used to be.

That is the opposite of change.


You are apparently unclear as to the definition of change. We prefer a different style of baseball. We want rule changes to make it happen. That is change.

There's no rule in the universe that the current state is the best possible state. Whig history is nonsense.
   24. . Posted: August 20, 2019 at 10:56 AM (#5872848)
You and the other old guys are advocating for reversing changes to make things how they used to be.

That is the opposite of change.


It's exactly what "change" means.

Sometimes the passage of time causes things to get suckier, not better -- see, e.g., Germany between 1920 and 1940. Way suckier in 1940 than 1920. Other times, the passage of time causes things to get better. But the mere passage of time itself isn't a factor in whether things have gotten better or suckier. (And of course, the converse is true -- just because something happened in the past doesn't mean it was better. Many times it was suckier.)

   25. Zonk Will Have the Chicken Kiev Posted: August 20, 2019 at 10:59 AM (#5872851)
I propose a system of levers and moving walkways that cause the earth to tilt such that fans have to walk uphill 5 miles in both directions to get to and from the ballpark.

But because I'm not crazy, I do oppose the artificial snow machines being discussed such that the trek occurs in snowstorms.
   26. Traderdave Posted: August 20, 2019 at 11:03 AM (#5872853)
TTO baseball has definitely diluted my enjoyment of the game and has reduced my attendance. I used to bristle when non-fans would say that baseball is boring, something we've all heard a zillion times, but these days such people have a point.

Full disclosure: I grew up watching NL ball on astroturf in the 80's, but jeez, people, put the ball in play!


   27. Traderdave Posted: August 20, 2019 at 11:06 AM (#5872855)

If I were commissioner, I'd have 4 objectives taped up on the walls at MLB HQ: 1) avg. game time 2:30, 2) K/9 <7, 3) HR/G <1, avg. SP outing >6 IP.


I hereby nominate snapper for commish.
   28. Zonk Will Have the Chicken Kiev Posted: August 20, 2019 at 11:11 AM (#5872857)
Full disclosure: I grew up watching NL ball on astroturf in the 80's, but jeez, people, put the ball in play!


I remember a piece from one of those long dead 80s glossies that referred to it as "Insect baseball"... a bunch of little insects scurrying to and fro. I loved the piece because it lauded the time out of place Cubs and their glorious slow pitch softball play.
   29. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: August 20, 2019 at 11:13 AM (#5872858)
I thoroughly enjoy the current version of the sport, though I've only been watching for a couple of decades, but I'd sign up for 1, 2, and 4 above (assuming that objective 4 is the SP outing one). I think 3 is unachievable and unmarketable, though I understand the sentiment.
   30. Zonk Will Have the Chicken Kiev Posted: August 20, 2019 at 11:21 AM (#5872861)
My personal view on viewing -

Home viewing, I feel like baseball has sort of changed/adapted (not consciously, maybe just coincidentally) to modern sports viewing regardless. 20 years ago - I watched a game and that's what I watched. Today? I'm likely to be flipping channels and/or on my laptop doing some work and/or reading on my tablet, etc. Regardless of pace of play issues - lots of those changes would be happening regardless. 20 years ago I didn't have a work laptop, I certainly didn't have a tablet, and I also didn't have 50 bazillion channels plus streaming services. It makes for a less sit-and-watch dedicated viewing - but that was going to happen regardless.

At the park viewing, I can definitely feel the difference - and I won't say it makes for a better experience (indeed, I'd agree it's worse) - but I've just adjusted by sort of seeing a trip to live baseball as being THE evening or afternoon rather than the centerpiece of an evening out and about.
   31. manchestermets Posted: August 20, 2019 at 11:49 AM (#5872872)
I want a hard pitch clock, a deadened ball, and roster restrictions on the number of pitchers, just to start. I'm open to pushing the mound back, or shrinking the strike zone, if the deader ball tanks offense too much.


If the deader ball in conjunction with your other changes - none of which I disagree with - depresses offense too much, why not just undeaden it? Dimensional changes would be worse than that IMO.
   32. Rally Posted: August 20, 2019 at 11:49 AM (#5872873)
You and the other old guys are advocating for reversing changes to make things how they used to be.

That is the opposite of change.


You're on the wrong track. Change is sometimes good, sometimes bad. It is certainly not a worthwhile end in itself.

What is best for the game? is the question that should be asked. If the direction of change is going to lead us to games with 35 combined strikeouts, 7 homeruns, 400 pitches thrown by 16 pitchers, and a final score of 4-3, then I think we need to try another direction. Including a full reverse if that's what it takes.
   33. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: August 20, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5872878)
If you Google Gossage on Youtube right after some highlights there are clips with titles like "Goosage Rips Cashman" or "Gossage Lashes out"

I guess the anger keeps this dude going.
   34. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: August 20, 2019 at 11:56 AM (#5872879)
I have been persuaded that a game with fewer strikeouts and more balls in play is likely a 'better' game on multiple levels. I do not claim to know how to generate that as an output on a consistent basis.
   35. SoSH U at work Posted: August 20, 2019 at 12:18 PM (#5872885)
I do not claim to know how to generate that as an output on a consistent basis.


I don't think it can be done with a single change, but only with multiple ones, and it addresses the question on two related issues: Reducing HRs and Ks.

To make it harder to hit HRs, you need to look at deeper fences, for sure, and possibly deadened balls and thicker bat handles*.

To reduce Ks, you have to make it more valuable to put the ball in play/more punitive to fail to do so (reduce the distance on the bases, shrink the gloves, bring back turf)

* The risk with these two items is that it depresses all kinds of offensive events, not just the dingers).
   36. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 20, 2019 at 12:21 PM (#5872887)

I don't think it can be done with a single change, but only with multiple ones, and it addresses the question on two related issues: Reducing HRs and Ks.

To make it harder to hit HRs, you need to look at deeper fences, for sure, and possibly deadened balls and thicker bat handles*.

To reduce Ks, you have to make it more valuable to put the ball in play/more punitive to fail to do so (reduce the distance on the bases, shrink the gloves, bring back turf)

* The risk with these two items is that it depresses all kinds of offensive events, not just the dingers).


I would think with modern science we could design a ball that is lively on grounders and liners, but doesn't carry well over 300 feet.

Maybe the solution is a "springier" ball, that has much more drag, through higher laces, or a rougher surface.
   37. Rally Posted: August 20, 2019 at 12:32 PM (#5872892)
I would think with modern science we could design a ball that is lively on grounders and liners, but doesn't carry well over 300 feet.


Make the baseball self-destruct if it travels more than x feet from home plate!

Might be an issue with all the foul ball souvenirs. Need to think this one through a bit more.
   38. Hot Wheeling American Posted: August 20, 2019 at 01:11 PM (#5872904)
If you Google Gossage on Youtube right after some highlights there are clips with titles like "Goosage Rips Cashman" or "Gossage Lashes out"

It's baseball's version of getting red-pilled. You've been 'goosed', Horse guy.
   39. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 20, 2019 at 01:24 PM (#5872907)
Is there any possibility a comeback for the high fastball would reduce homers? CW has always been to pitch low to keep the ball in the park, but that doesn't work anymore when everyone is using golf swings to generate lift. In return, pitchers need to start throwing pitches they can't effectively uppercut on.
   40. Tin Angel Posted: August 20, 2019 at 01:27 PM (#5872909)
Imagine if Goose Gossage was your dad and you had to spend time with him.
   41. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: August 20, 2019 at 01:47 PM (#5872917)
40--I had family who saw Gossage when he pitched and nobody remembers him as being Grandpa Simpson-like. Just a guy with for its time a wicked stache who was really good as a reliever and pitched in a lot of big games
   42. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 20, 2019 at 01:55 PM (#5872921)
Imagine if Goose Gossage was your dad and you had to spend time with him.

I did a corporate tour of Yankee Stadium once and he was the tour guide. He was very personable and entertaining.

This is schtick he's doing to get in the papers.
   43. . Posted: August 20, 2019 at 01:55 PM (#5872922)
These are all men who hit the peak of their lives in their late 20s and early 30s. Virtually all of them, anyway. Their lives have strange, unnatural arcs and as a result, they are not going to develop normally. Goose is no exception.
   44. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 20, 2019 at 02:01 PM (#5872924)
It's unusual for a goose to live much beyond 20 years. No wonder he's gotten bitter.
   45. JAHV Posted: August 20, 2019 at 02:01 PM (#5872925)
If I were commissioner, I'd have 4 objectives taped up on the walls at MLB HQ: 1) avg. game time 2:30, 2) K/9 <7, 3) HR/G <1, avg. SP outing >6 IP.


I second the nomination of Snapper for commish. I'd switch priorities 1 and 2, assuming you have those listed in order of importance, but otherwise, I am all on board.
   46. Zonk Will Have the Chicken Kiev Posted: August 20, 2019 at 02:07 PM (#5872926)
So he's Faux Grump?
   47. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 20, 2019 at 02:32 PM (#5872935)
So he's Faux Grump?

He's probably got some grumpiness; don't we all? But he's getting calls from reporters to get a grumpy quote. If he stops giving them what they expect, they stop calling.
   48. Lassus Posted: August 20, 2019 at 02:37 PM (#5872937)
I would think with modern science we could design a ball that is lively on grounders and liners, but doesn't carry well over 300 feet.

And I would think we could design an FTL drive, yet I'm still stuck here with all of you earthlings. Life isn't really fair.
   49. flournoy Posted: August 20, 2019 at 02:45 PM (#5872941)
I would think with modern science we could design a ball that is lively on grounders and liners, but doesn't carry well over 300 feet.


Play upside-down, where the higher the ball goes, the lower its altitude.
   50. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 20, 2019 at 02:50 PM (#5872942)
And I would think we could design an FTL drive, yet I'm still stuck here with all of you earthlings. Life isn't really fair.

Yes, truly the mysteries of leather, string, and cork, will elude us forever.
   51. The Duke Posted: August 20, 2019 at 05:18 PM (#5872982)
I find the game on radio and tv to be fine. My experience at the ballpark has been very bad. Games are too long. In the ballpark, replay ruins every close play and takes forever - fans have no idea what is happening. Pitching changes are absurd. Shifts have ruined the symmetry of the game at the ballpark

I think the move to TTO baseball is transient. So I’m less worried about that as a long
Term issue.
.
   52. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: August 20, 2019 at 05:31 PM (#5872984)
   53. Jack Sommers Posted: August 20, 2019 at 05:45 PM (#5872991)
On March 17, 1952, Life magazine ran the first article of a two-part series by Cobb. This article, titled "The Greatest Player of All Time Says: They Don’t Play Baseball Any More," features Cobb’s thoughts on the current state of the game. Among other topics, the Georgia Peach critiqued managers’ "so-called ‘strategy’" in ballgames, base running (both stealing bases and preventing stolen bases), and the "many joke teams" in the majors, singling out the 1951 St. Louis Browns.

Bemoaning the “fragile” nature of 1952’s pitchers, Cobb opted for Bob Feller as one who could compare to players from his era.

The livelier baseball, players’ attitudes, the lack of camaraderie in the postgame clubhouse – it was all fodder for Cobb.


There's more Here
   54. My name is RMc and I feel extremely affected Posted: August 20, 2019 at 08:55 PM (#5873037)
As I've said here before, and in fact was saying to my in-laws at dinner just the other day:

90% of baseball's problems can be solved with two freakin' things:

1) Get in the damn box.
2) Throw the damn ball.

You're welcome.
   55. redsock Posted: August 20, 2019 at 09:27 PM (#5873051)
When Gossage insists that baseball has "sustained itself for over 100 years", he undermines his entire nonsensical rant. (But clearly doesn't realize it.)

Baseball is always changing - and it has only increased in popularity. Old players have been griping about the less-than-ideal way the younger players approach the game for roughly 140 years.

Babe Ruth was looked down on by many former players for turning a game of science and skill into a dull contest of brute strength. In other words, pretty much the exact argument that is being made now ... almost a century later.

(Also: Both Gossage and Rose mention "Harvard" as a pejorative. Following the trail of the US's very long history of suspicion and wariness over "book-learn'".)
   56. Jack Sommers Posted: August 20, 2019 at 09:43 PM (#5873061)
In park attendance is off 13% from the 2007 peak. The trend isn't favorable right now. Of course ticket revenue is now less than 50% of all revenues, but if number of people going to live games, especially NEW people, continues on current trend, then eventually the other revenue streams will decrease also.
   57. Dr. Vaux Posted: August 21, 2019 at 05:04 AM (#5873107)
I think 3 is unachievable and unmarketable, though I understand the sentiment.


Starting pitcher outings won't go back to 6 innings and above without home runs going down, though. If home runs stay up, then I think it's inevitable that starting pitcher innings continue to decrease. One crazy "solution" that could arrest that inevitability would be to decrease the run value of home runs, so they're less damaging to the opposition. If it's the ball leaving the park that's so exciting, then it would be just as exciting if it was worth either (a) with the bases empty, one run, like now; or (b) with runners on base, the runners all score, but instead of the batter scoring also, he simply gets a new count and keeps batting. Either way, it counts as a home run in the stats, and as an at bat with a hit achieved. Maybe if we want some kind of "affirmative action" for starters, to keep them in games longer, we could make that be the rule only against the starting pitcher. If we want to do that, maybe a bases-empty home run could be worth just half a run against the starter, but a whole run against a reliever.

I'm full of crazy ideas.
   58. . Posted: August 21, 2019 at 07:04 AM (#5873110)
I'd let starting pitchers pitch to any hitter any time. No reason they should be limited to consecutive hitters, then none. That rule is the product of a long bygone age where the expectation is that the rule wouldn't even be invoked because they'd routinely pitch the whole game.

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