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Sunday, October 15, 2017

NLCS Game 2 OMNICHATTER, for October 15, 2017

The Dodgers lead the series 1-0.

LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 15, 2017 at 12:51 PM | 331 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: omnichatter

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Page 4 of 4 pages ‹ First  < 2 3 4
   301. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 15, 2017 at 11:31 PM (#5554746)
300: Agreed completely—I just think it’s worth noting that pulling that crap in an elimination game takes things to a whole different level of awfulness.
   302. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2017 at 11:34 PM (#5554747)
OK, I'll give you that Buck gets a 100 on the idiot test, whereas Maddon only gets a 99. Actually, no. Maddon gets a 100, and Buck gets extra credit.
   303. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 15, 2017 at 11:38 PM (#5554749)
I’ll also add to the “Joe Maddon is a good manager” pile the Cubs’ second-half dominance in each of Maddon’s seasons. They’ve gone 50-25, 50-23, and 49-25 post-ASB the last three years respectively. I don’t think that’s random chance—Maddon’s good at balancing playing time among a lot of talented players, and keeping them fresh for the stretch run.
   304. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 15, 2017 at 11:40 PM (#5554750)
Yeah, there is quite literally NO defense that can be made for Showalter’s move, given the circumstances.
   305. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 15, 2017 at 11:42 PM (#5554751)
Long as Ray’s in the house, I reckon an “It’s over. It’s always been over” is about all that might save the Cubs at this point.
   306. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2017 at 11:44 PM (#5554752)
Here's the thing, though - this is the kind of fundamental error that calls into question his judgment in its entirety. If there's room in his head for the kind of "logic" he expressed tonight re: not using Davis, who knows what else he's susceptible to? I think he just lost any benefit of any doubt as far as I'm concerned.
   307. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 15, 2017 at 11:47 PM (#5554753)
Fair enough, but the problem is, a lot of managers think this way, or at least fall into that trap some of the time. That doesn’t excuse the move or mitigate its awfulness, but if you bring in someone else, you lose what I think are Maddon’s real strengths, and probably don’t address any weaknesses.
   308. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: October 15, 2017 at 11:47 PM (#5554754)
Here's the thing, though - this is the kind of fundamental error that calls into question his judgment in its entirety.

Oh brother.

I really hate this sort of reaction. I've always hated this sort of reaction. I'll always hate this sort of reaction.

One bad blunder does not call a person's entire life and career into question. Good grief.
   309. Recalcitrant Nate Posted: October 15, 2017 at 11:49 PM (#5554755)
Ok jumping in way late, but

Randy Newman- superb melodies, great story-telling in that piano man/lounge singer/New Orleans kinda vein.

Nick Cave- listen to Boatman's Call. Though I didn't fully appreciate the depth of his songwriting/imagery until I heard Johnny Cash's cover of Mercy Seat. His version of Staggo Lee is also great.

I always hate losing games where the team's best players didn't play. So no Davis, no Schwarber/Happ when they can't score is infuriating
   310. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: October 15, 2017 at 11:51 PM (#5554756)
Fair enough

No, it's not fair enough. It's incredibly stupid. Manage in enough postseason games, and you'll have some really big mistake blow up in your face. Should we question everything Casey Stengel did because he didn't use Whitey Ford in Game One of the 1960 World Series (thus resulting in Ford getting only two starts)? Should we banish Al Lopez from Cooperstown for his odd disinterest in using Billy Pierce in the 1959 World Series. Man, tarring & feathering is too good for Walter Alston the way he handled the end of Game #165 in the 1962 season.

One mistake doesn't call into question everything a person has ever done.
   311. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 15, 2017 at 11:51 PM (#5554757)
One bad blunder does not call a person's entire life and career into question. Good grief.

Hey, I'm right in the moment right now.

But honestly - I'll give you that there would be reasons for not using Davis that would be questionable to a lot of people, but not fundamental errors such that you question the guy's judgment. It wasn't just the not using Davis. It was not using Davis and then coming right out and saying it was because they were saving him for a save. That shows a complete rejection, or at least ignorance, of basic logical thought, doesn't it?
   312. madvillain Posted: October 15, 2017 at 11:53 PM (#5554759)
As a neutral party these playoffs have been pretty amazing.

I’ll also add to the “Joe Maddon is a good manager” pile the Cubs’ second-half dominance in each of Maddon’s seasons. They’ve gone 50-25, 50-23, and 49-25 post-ASB the last three years respectively. I don’t think that’s random chance—Maddon’s good at balancing playing time among a lot of talented players, and keeping them fresh for the stretch run.


Maddon is an absolute genius as a leader of men. As a tactician he's brutal.
   313. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 16, 2017 at 12:01 AM (#5554762)
On the bright side, that might be the last pitch Lackey throws in the big leagues and the last memory he has of the game.
   314. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: October 16, 2017 at 12:01 AM (#5554763)
It was not using Davis and then coming right out and saying it was because they were saving him for a save. That shows a complete rejection, or at least ignorance, of basic logical thought, doesn't it?

I thought Maddon said that Davis was only available for one inning tonight. I was under the impression that was because he's still recovering from his 44-pitch outing in Game Five of the NLDS. And that's why he was waiting until they had a lead to use him. Not because he's so beholden to the save, but because if he's only gonna get one inning, may as well make it one with the lead.

I think that's still a bad argument. I mean, after Game Five, Maddon said there isn't much difference between six outs and seven -- hey, by that same logic, there isn't much difference between three outs and four. And you got to worry about THIS inning in a situation like this more than the next inning. (Hey, who knows - maybe the Dodgers go down as quickly and feebly as the Cubs bats did in the latter innings and you can ride him a tad longer than expected).

But saying a guy rejects basic logical thought because he made a bad move ..... PUH-LEEZE!
   315. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 16, 2017 at 12:02 AM (#5554764)
Dag, I think you’re reading just a bit much into my “fair enough,” which is pretty well negated by the rest of my post. But, point taken.
   316. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 16, 2017 at 12:04 AM (#5554766)
312: “Brutal” is an overbid. I think he’s pretty good tactically on the offensive side; as indicated, though, I think his handling of pitchers leaves much to be desired.
   317. madvillain Posted: October 16, 2017 at 12:05 AM (#5554767)
I think his handling of pitchers leaves much to be desired.


I'm sure you have watched him 10x or more as I have. That said, that is an underbid. :-D
   318. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 16, 2017 at 12:06 AM (#5554768)
But saying a guy rejects basic logical thought because he made a bad move ..... PUH-LEEZE!

The second paragraph of your post shows exactly why it was a rejection of basic logical thinking. You need as many innings out of your best relievers as you can get, as soon as possible, to prolong the game. If you know you have one inning from Davis, you use it before you go to Lackey. You have to give yourself a chance to get the lead before you can worry about protecting the lead. That's painfully obvious.

As Maddon himself is wont to emphasize, it's about process. It's not just a bad decision - it's a completely faulty thought process leading to the bad decision.
   319. DFA Posted: October 16, 2017 at 12:17 AM (#5554770)
I have to give Maddon credit for bringing in Wade Davis in the 7th inning in Game 5 against the Nationals.
   320. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: October 16, 2017 at 01:16 AM (#5554773)
I just got home. Wow, what a game. Honestly, I thought Lester looked pretty bad and it was frustrating seeing him walk the world and the Dodgers never make him pay for it (the one run they did get did not involve any of his 5 walks). Culberson has already done more for the Dodgers in this series than Seager did the entire NLDS. When Turner hit the home run the stadium just went wild. I stayed at my seat a few minutes after the homer celebrating with total strangers even though I knew if I made a b line for my car as soon as it landed that I could save 20 minutes off of getting out of the parking lot. It was worth it.
   321. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 16, 2017 at 01:30 AM (#5554774)
20 minutes off of getting out of the parking lot. It was worth it.


What are these "minutes" you refer to? I've been Chavez Ravine many times and the only terminology I am familiar with when leaving the stadium involves the term "hours". Though the word glacial has been overheard on occasion to describe the pace of movement of the cars in the lot.
   322. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 16, 2017 at 01:31 AM (#5554775)
Okay, just for fun:

In 2016, Showalter took out Brian Duensing and put in a crappy starter (instead of his closer) and that pitcher gave up a walk-off 3-run home run.
In 2017, Maddon took out Brian Duensing and put in a crappy starter (instead of his closer) and that pitcher gave up a walk-off 3-run home run.

Also,

October 15, 1988 - Kirk Gibson hits a walk-off home run.

Exactly 29 years later...

October 15, 2017 - Justin Turner hits a walk-off home run.

In between those home runs, no Los Angeles Dodger player hit a walk-off home run in the playoffs.
   323. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 16, 2017 at 01:32 AM (#5554776)
And as for Maddon... not his best moment. As Face points out, if you are only getting 3 outs from Davis, then get the 3 outs first, then worry what you need to do down the track.

I think they need to run him out of town and then he can hide somewhere next year in the Red Sox dugout.

   324. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: October 16, 2017 at 01:42 AM (#5554777)
[321] It took me about half an hour to get out of the parking lot tonight. The NLDS game I went to, it took a little over one hour to get out.
   325. Lassus Posted: October 16, 2017 at 06:45 AM (#5554785)
EDIT: not entirely fair
   326. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 16, 2017 at 07:21 AM (#5554786)
Yeah, this isn’t quite as bad as Showalter’s blunder (Britton was better than Davis, Jimenez was even worse than Lackey, Jimenez needed to get through a whole inning while Lackey didn’t, and of course Showalter’s letting Britton rot came in an elimination game.)

FTR:

Lackey's September 2017 ERA: 2.73 in 29.2 innings, OPS .597

Jiminez's September 2016 ERA: 2.31 in 35 innings, OPS .473. In his last start of the season, he'd pitched 6.1 innings of 1-hit ball in Toronto, with a 74 game score.

#### happens. But I think the Red Sox, among other teams, might still be happy to get either a Maddon or a Showalter.

   327. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: October 16, 2017 at 07:31 AM (#5554789)
I always root hard against Lackey so it was lovely when I heard the ball off Turner's bat.
   328. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: October 16, 2017 at 09:08 AM (#5554805)
Lackey's September 2017 ERA: 2.73 in 29.2 innings, OPS .597

Jiminez's September 2016 ERA: 2.31 in 35 innings, OPS .473. In his last start of the season, he'd pitched 6.1 innings of 1-hit ball in Toronto, with a 74 game score.


And what were Britton and Davis in those same time spans?

Maddon messed up here. I don't think it's anywhere close to Showalter, Maddon didn't end his team's season, and the idea that it calls his judgment in general into question is just stupid. If Davis truly was available for one inning only I understand why Maddon did what he did. As others noted I'd rather give him the ball in the tie game and see what happens, maybe he has a 7 pitch inning and can go a second but at least there is some logic there. Showalter had a fresh pitcher and losing the game ended his season, that was a disaster.
   329. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 16, 2017 at 09:15 AM (#5554809)
And as for Maddon... not his best moment. As Face points out, if you are only getting 3 outs from Davis, then get the 3 outs first, then worry what you need to do down the track.


I think the chances of the Cubs scoring again last night was less than zero, so I've got no problem with whatever solution ended the suffering earliest.
   330. spycake Posted: October 16, 2017 at 10:26 AM (#5554843)
Thinking this through...

The pitcher's spot was due up 2nd in the 10th. But they still had Schwarber and Happ on the bench. So they could have brought someone in for just one out with the plan to pinch-hit the next inning. But they probably want a little more length from their relievers in a tie game?

Double-switch like they did, and the pitcher's spot isn't likely to come up in the 10th and maybe not the 11th either, the way they have been hitting.

So it's hard to use a pitcher for 3-4 outs there, which is what he wanted from Davis. Seems like you either use him for 1 or for 7. Maybe the 1 could have been Rondon, vs the RHB Taylor and possibly Turner?
   331. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 16, 2017 at 11:02 AM (#5554868)
In 2016, Showalter took out Brian Duensing and put in a crappy starter (instead of his closer) and that pitcher gave up a walk-off 3-run home run.
In 2017, Maddon took out Brian Duensing and put in a crappy starter (instead of his closer) and that pitcher gave up a walk-off 3-run home run.

Wait, so it was Duensing's fault? Actually, I buy that. We've just been waiting for him to do something terrible all year.
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