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Sunday, October 16, 2011

NLCS Game 6 Chatter

Cardinals (Edwin Jackson) at Brewers (Marcum). 8:05 PM. TBS.

Cardinals lead series 3-2.

The Texas Rangers have, as you all know, advanced to the World Series.

Gamingboy Posted: October 16, 2011 at 02:18 PM | 489 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. musial6 Posted: October 16, 2011 at 05:31 PM (#3965245)
I have to wonder why they're going with Marcum again...given the Cardinals struggles against soft-tossing lefties, Narveson would have been a viable alternative.

I guess we could see a quick hook with Narveson inserted early, but even one bad inning potentially ends their season...
   2. cardsfanboy Posted: October 16, 2011 at 06:06 PM (#3965258)
I hope this Green Bay beat down of St Louis isn't predictive of any results for tonights game.
   3. cardsfanboy Posted: October 16, 2011 at 06:09 PM (#3965259)
I have to wonder why they're going with Marcum again...given the Cardinals struggles against soft-tossing lefties, Narveson would have been a viable alternative.


Did the Cardinals struggle this year against Soft tossing lefties? I was under the impression that was an issue for seasons before 2010 and that we had more or less done decently against the soft tossing lefties the last two seasons.
   4. Kiko Sakata Posted: October 16, 2011 at 06:15 PM (#3965264)
I guess we could see a quick hook with Narveson inserted early, but even one bad inning potentially ends their season...


Short of the sort of inning Texas put up in the 3rd, with a quick enough hook, the Brewers should be able to survive giving up, say, 3 runs in the first 2 innings by Marcum. Obviously that's not a good plan to go into the game expecting, but the Brewers have a pretty damn good offense, especially at home, and most of the time, Edwin Jackson is nothing all that special as a starting pitcher. But, yeah, Roenicke needs to have a quick hook.
   5. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 16, 2011 at 06:33 PM (#3965271)
This smacks to me of a manager placing loyalty and faith in a vet before winning.

I thought his starting of Hairston showed that even RR had his limits and that the loyalty factor was ok for the regular season but not for when the chips were down.

Guess I was wrong.
   6. Kiko Sakata Posted: October 16, 2011 at 06:41 PM (#3965273)
I thought his starting of Hairston showed that even RR had his limits and that the loyalty factor was ok for the regular season but not for when the chips were down.


Jerry Hairston is more of a "vet" than McGahee, though (this is his 14th season - I was surprised he's been around THAT long), so maybe that's why he was more comfortable making that change than replacing Marcum?
   7. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 16, 2011 at 06:55 PM (#3965281)
Kiko

Plausible.
   8. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 16, 2011 at 07:57 PM (#3965288)
The Brewers need to get this done. I realize I'm a horrible person who has committed myriad atrocities against humankind, but that doesn't justify subjecting me to a Cards/Rangers world series.
   9. whoisalhedges Posted: October 16, 2011 at 08:05 PM (#3965292)
Congratulations, CFB. I'm afraid a Marcum start at this point means the Brewers are done. At least beat Texas for us, okay?
   10. cardsfanboy Posted: October 16, 2011 at 08:13 PM (#3965294)
Congratulations, CFB. I'm afraid a Marcum start at this point means the Brewers are done. At least beat Texas for us, okay?


I prefer to continue to think that the Cardinals have their backs against the wall, they seem to play better when thinking they "have" to win, as witness by how quickly they gave up their lead in the standings.

There is a reason the post season is a crapshoot, at any point in time someone can have a great game making all the predictions moot. I think Marcum is a heck of a pitcher so I think it's a stretch to give the series to the Cardinals automatically (I will admit, I'm in the most optimistic mood on the Cardinal chances in this post season, than I have been about anything concerning the Cardinals since mid August)
   11. whoisalhedges Posted: October 16, 2011 at 08:19 PM (#3965295)
Maybe RR will pull Marcum due to "injury" just before the game.

He is a good pitcher, but he's done for the year. He's got nothing left.
   12. Mike Emeigh Posted: October 16, 2011 at 08:35 PM (#3965300)
Did the Cardinals struggle this year against Soft tossing lefties?


Not that I can tell. Berkman has trouble against lefties in general, and finesse guys in particular, but that would be offset by putting Craig out there in his place as TLR did in Game 4.

Narveson's had some good outings against the Cards in his career - eight shutout innings in a June start this year, a 7 IP/2 run start last year - and while he's had some less-than-good outings against them as well he's generally kept the Brewers in the game when he faced St. Louis. I would certainly think that he'd be the first one out of the pen tonight if Marcum struggles.

-- MWE
   13. cardsfanboy Posted: October 16, 2011 at 08:35 PM (#3965301)
I like the fact that they are calling this a best out of 25 series.
   14. AJMcCringleberry Posted: October 16, 2011 at 09:39 PM (#3965319)
Let's go Brewers.

I don't want to have to talk myself into the Rangers.
   15. Guts Posted: October 16, 2011 at 09:57 PM (#3965326)
Feeling pretty good. Marcum hasn't had anything for a month. Jackson may or may not explode, but TLR will be pulling him at the first sign of trouble anyway. Cards have the better lineup, not afraid of Miller Park, etc.
   16. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 16, 2011 at 10:08 PM (#3965329)
I remain astonished that a group of professional players would relax thinking that their home park was some magical place impervious to events.

What, Miller Park is Camelot?
   17. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: October 16, 2011 at 10:29 PM (#3965335)
Narveson has been effective against the Cardinals, but I've heard his name so long and in such disparaging tones, that it's hard to believe he's the life boat in a playoff game.
   18. musial6 Posted: October 16, 2011 at 10:37 PM (#3965338)
[3] [12]

While not disputing that Cards are better vs LHP when compared with 2-5 years ago, they can still be shut down by the Randy Wolfs of the world on any given night...Narveson is far from a favorable matchup, but I think he clearly gives the Brewers a better shot than Marcum

fyi, my photos from Game 5 can be found here...
   19. Sunday silence Posted: October 16, 2011 at 10:52 PM (#3965342)
speaking of pitching: the conventional wisdom is that it's not your pitching rotation that's important but rather your 2-3 best starters, since you only need 3 starting pitchers. But since the expanded playoff format it seems to me, at least anecdotally, that pitching seems to fall apart by the second or third week of playoffs. So maybe it's really your overall depth of pitching that is key to playoffs..?
   20. Rafael Bellylard: The Grinch of Orlando. Posted: October 16, 2011 at 11:19 PM (#3965349)
Harveys,

Just curious, is Miller Park a nice venue for watching a game? I'll be driving back to Florida and will be wandering through Milwaukee next April with a free evening, and the Astros will be in town. My other option is to go ahead and drive into Chicago and see the Cubs play the Cardinals. I've been to Wrigley once, many years ago, so Miller Park has the advantage of being new to me.
   21. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: October 16, 2011 at 11:30 PM (#3965354)
speaking of pitching: the conventional wisdom is that it's not your pitching rotation that's important but rather your 2-3 best starters, since you only need 3 starting pitchers. But since the expanded playoff format it seems to me, at least anecdotally, that pitching seems to fall apart by the second or third week of playoffs. So maybe it's really your overall depth of pitching that is key to playoffs..?


I think this year there are fewer off days within series than there were before. That may make all the difference.
   22. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 16, 2011 at 11:31 PM (#3965356)
Very negative attitude in parking lot/stDium

Fans convinced Marcum will blow up in first and lose it right there

Regarding Miller:

Must recuse myself because I hate this ballpark
   23. musial6 Posted: October 16, 2011 at 11:34 PM (#3965357)
the conventional wisdom is that it's not your pitching rotation that's important but rather your 2-3 best starters, since you only need 3 starting pitchers.


You need 4, unless you pitch everyone on short rest - which hasn't been the norm for decades. The #4 is the least important since he only gets one start (or zero in a first round sweep).

since the expanded playoff format it seems to me, at least anecdotally, that pitching seems to fall apart by the second or third week of playoffs. So maybe it's really your overall depth of pitching that is key to playoffs..?


There's a bit more to it...but you're on the right track

More than anything, there needs to be a realization that your best pitchers in the regular season might not be your best options in the postseason - i.e. managers need to identify who is gassed/hurting/ineffective and replace them with fresh arms within the system.

Organizational depth of pitching has always been the key - but equally important is management's ability to push the right buttons.
   24. cardsfanboy Posted: October 16, 2011 at 11:35 PM (#3965360)
I had fun at Miller Park. Smells like Brats. Of course when I went you could go up to the front gate and buy tickets along the the third base line for $25 at gametime, doubt that is the case anymore.
   25. Rafael Bellylard: The Grinch of Orlando. Posted: October 16, 2011 at 11:44 PM (#3965368)
I had fun at Miller Park. Smells like Brats. Of course when I went you could go up to the front gate and buy tickets along the the third base line for $25 at gametime, doubt that is the case anymore.


If Fielder leaves, it still might be the case.
   26. Tripon Posted: October 16, 2011 at 11:57 PM (#3965374)
If the Cardinals make it to the world series, will the new model to copy is to run off your best young players and trade for cromulate to crappy veterans?
   27. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: October 16, 2011 at 11:57 PM (#3965375)
Must recuse myself because I hate this ballpark


Really?

Why?

Seems like a WONDERFUL atmosphere and place to see a game.
   28. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 16, 2011 at 11:59 PM (#3965376)
It's becoming a recurring theme that you can scr&w around for 4.5 months, get hot and win a ring or at least get to the Series

This is disappointing to me
   29. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:02 AM (#3965377)
COB

Day games stink because of oppressive lack of breeze and the shadows which cause weird thongs to happen

And I LOVE day baseball

Miller Park distorts it so badly I am distraught
   30. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:04 AM (#3965379)
Fans pleading Marxum to not stink
   31. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:05 AM (#3965383)
Here wengo
   32. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:08 AM (#3965385)
YES!

An out!!!!
   33. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:08 AM (#3965386)
High strike
   34. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:08 AM (#3965387)
Fans pleading Marxum to not stink
Couldn't help but notice that. "Redemption" = "We have little/no faith in you, but we're open to surprises."
   35. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:09 AM (#3965388)
Cards go opposite field again

Killed Crew all series
   36. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:10 AM (#3965391)
Good throw gets him
   37. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:12 AM (#3965392)
Need change tonight to have a chNce
   38. Guts Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:13 AM (#3965393)
Pretty ballsy of Pujols to take that pitch.
   39. cardsfanboy Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:13 AM (#3965394)
If the Cardinals make it to the world series, will the new model to copy is to run off your best young players and trade for cromulate to crappy veterans?


If the Cards win, it arguably makes the trade a good move. The goal is to win and go deep in the post season, and there is no argument that Scrabble, Dotel and Jackson have all figured heavily in getting the Cardinals there and winning in the post season.

Of course, the Cardinals historically have had good luck most of the time with their mid season trades. Even a June trade for Lou Brock worked out pretty well.
   40. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:13 AM (#3965395)
Dread is palpable
   41. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:14 AM (#3965396)
Should have bullpen up
   42. Good cripple hitter Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:14 AM (#3965397)
They should have someone warming up right now. It's do or die, they can't afford to give up runs.
   43. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:15 AM (#3965398)
Is Ron asleep?
   44. Guts Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM (#3965399)
Marcum does not want to throw a strike at all. I guess I can't blame him.
   45. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM (#3965401)
Awful throw

Game
   46. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM (#3965402)
Marcum has nothing, it appears.
   47. Guts Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM (#3965403)
Beautiful. With perfect baserunning.
   48. Good cripple hitter Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM (#3965404)
This was frustratingly predictable. And a terrible throw that might cost the Brewers another run.
   49. AJMcCringleberry Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM (#3965405)
Ugh.
   50. cardsfanboy Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:17 AM (#3965406)
Nyjer Morgan is receiving money under the table from the Cardinals, the entire feud thing was to give him plausible deniability.
   51. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:17 AM (#3965407)
Fans screaming for Ron to act
   52. Bourbon Samurai, what price fettucine? Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:18 AM (#3965409)
bullpen already up
   53. Zeba Zeba Eata Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:18 AM (#3965410)
Real impressive (and gutsy) play by Marcum there...
   54. Pujols Shot Ya Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:18 AM (#3965411)
and safe.
   55. Good cripple hitter Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:18 AM (#3965412)
Umps want a game 7, I guess.
   56. AJMcCringleberry Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:19 AM (#3965413)
He was safe.
   57. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:19 AM (#3965414)
Thought he was safe
   58. Guts Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:19 AM (#3965416)
Damn, nice play by Marcum. Need this run at third.

####, he was safe. ####. That's going to be a problem.

Ok, less of a problem. Freese has gone into BEAST MODE.
   59. Good cripple hitter Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:19 AM (#3965417)
I'm really angry that this happened, and I'm not even a Brewers fan.
   60. Zeba Zeba Eata Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:19 AM (#3965418)
And, crushed.
   61. AJMcCringleberry Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:19 AM (#3965419)
Game over.
   62. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:20 AM (#3965420)
That pitch is going to get crushed 99 times out of 100. Rough.
   63. All In The Guetterman, Looking Up At The Stargell Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:20 AM (#3965421)
Homae plate ump cant steal that one away. Grr.
   64. cardsfanboy Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:20 AM (#3965422)
Freese is showing that you can't assume you are done with the Cardinals offense after going through Pujols, Berkman and Holliday. Also is close to setting the Cardinals record for most rbi in a post season
   65. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:20 AM (#3965423)
Fans LIVID

RR getting ABUSED
   66. Kiko Sakata Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:20 AM (#3965424)
bullpen already up


It's pretty sad when your starting pitcher goes one batter too long and that batter is the 6th hitter of the game.
   67. Brian White Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:21 AM (#3965425)
Not entirely clear if he was safe. I thought Pujols' foot might have been *over* the plate, and not touching. Hard to tell on the replay.

Not that it's going to matter, mind you.
   68. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:21 AM (#3965426)
Fans screaming at Marcum to take himself out of game
   69. Good cripple hitter Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:21 AM (#3965427)
It's pretty sad when your starting pitcher goes one batter too long and that batter is the 6th hitter of the game.


I'd say that he was 6 hitters too long at that point, and I love Marcum.
   70. All In The Guetterman, Looking Up At The Stargell Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:22 AM (#3965429)
That's pathetic, Yadi
   71. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:23 AM (#3965430)
Marcum getting earful

He looks defeated and beaten
   72. Pujols Shot Ya Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:23 AM (#3965431)
Thank you Walt Jocketty and Jim Edmonds.
   73. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:23 AM (#3965432)
John Henry was personally opposed to starting Marcum tonight.
   74. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:24 AM (#3965433)
I suddenly feel as though I'm watching Prince Fielder's final game in a Brewer uniform.
   75. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:24 AM (#3965434)
Marcum better not come out for the second.
   76. asdf1234 Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:24 AM (#3965435)
You said it, 72. I'm going to go order my Freese jersey now.
   77. All In The Guetterman, Looking Up At The Stargell Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:25 AM (#3965437)
I hate the guy but this is a situation where I'm glad TLR is manager so he can keep the team grinding instead of goofing off after getting a big lead that's not really that big in Miller Park.
   78. Bourbon Samurai, what price fettucine? Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:25 AM (#3965438)
god damn it i had to help my wife and i missed three runs.
   79. Rafael Bellylard: The Grinch of Orlando. Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:26 AM (#3965439)
Edwin Jackson is perfectly capable of giving some runs back.
   80. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:26 AM (#3965440)
Jackson know hebonly needs to go 5
   81. cardsfanboy Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:27 AM (#3965441)
Edwin Jackson is perfectly capable of giving some runs back.


You called it.
   82. bobm Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:27 AM (#3965442)
That was like 2007 game 162 Glavine or (almost like) 1988 NLCS game 7 Darling.

If only Mets analyst Ron Darling were doing this game to compare and contrast.
   83. Tony S Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:27 AM (#3965443)
Corey Hart never surrenders.
   84. Lassus Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:27 AM (#3965444)
THERE'S ONE
   85. Tripon Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:27 AM (#3965445)
High offense game, I take it!
   86. Guts Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:27 AM (#3965446)
Yeah, of course that happens. There might be 16 IP for bullpens in this game.
   87. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:27 AM (#3965447)
BIG home run, if nothing for the get-off-the-floor emotional lift.
   88. asdf1234 Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:28 AM (#3965448)
I'm not going to forget the Rasmus trade if you lay an egg tonight, Edwin.
   89. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:28 AM (#3965449)
RR said Mrgan is pressing

No sh-t Ron. I pointed that out a week ago
   90. All In The Guetterman, Looking Up At The Stargell Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:28 AM (#3965450)
Eleventy to twentyteen slugfest commencing.
   91. Tripon Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:28 AM (#3965451)
You won't see any stories about Edwin Jackson eating fried chicken in the Cards clubhouse!
   92. cardsfanboy Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:28 AM (#3965452)
High offense game, I take it!


Everytime I think something like that in the first inning of the game, nobody scores again until the 9th.
   93. Lassus Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:29 AM (#3965453)
If only Mets analyst Ron Darling were doing this game to compare and contrast.

Darling is perfectly capable of self-recognition/denigration, but calling up that situation is calling the game a loss already, and that is rather unfair from an announcer this early, wouldn't you say?
   94. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:30 AM (#3965455)
Will be interesting to see if Prince swings a strikes or balls over his head
   95. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:31 AM (#3965456)
Braun picked bad time to slump

His swing the last three games I'd off
   96. Tony S Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:32 AM (#3965457)
Brewers are all trying to hit homers.
   97. Lassus Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:32 AM (#3965458)
Stop with the pressing HR swings, guys. You're only down three with 9, or, 8 innings to go.
   98. Pujols Shot Ya Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:33 AM (#3965459)
Okay, we won that inning.
   99. bobm Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:33 AM (#3965460)
[93] I think Darling could describe what goes through a starter's mind in a spot like that, without forecasting defeat IMO. (He has during games and in writing.) TBS may not appreciate it, though.
   100. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 17, 2011 at 12:34 AM (#3965461)
The Crew have been trying to jerk it into the seats most of the series
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