Why is Dunn even in the lineup against a tough LHP like CC when he was 3-77 against LHP'ers, let alone batting 4th.

Ozzie should be fired and investigated to make sure he was not betting against his own team.

It was funny to hear Flaherty compare himself to Dunn last night, saying he had a year where he struggled after a good season.

Why is Dunn even in the lineup against a tough LHP like CC when he was 3-77 against LHP'ers, let alone batting 4th.

When I read this I did a double take. I know Dunn has struggled, but you must be overstating for effect. But Dunn is having such a bad season that I at least had to look. And you are stating the cold hard facts with no embellishment. 3 for 77, all singles, batting .039.

Perhaps the worst hitting pitcher to have a big league career was Dean Chance, who struck out about 2/3 of the time. Even Dean hit .066 for his career. Though he did have a few seasons worse than Dunn vs LHP. 2 for 76 in 1966, 3 for 92 the year after.

It's pretty sad to see a player who was good as recently as last season just lose it like this. It's really mind-boggling though.

With Konerko out, I may have also put Dunn in there batting fourth.

Bad news if you think it's Pat Burrell syndrome, and he can't handle being a DH. Adam is hitting 181/306/329 as a DH. He's played a bit at first and right field, and in those games he has 5 hits in 62 AB, plus 36 strikeouts.

I have witnessed some folks recover from this type of season. Reggie had a disasterous season in 1983 and two years later had a 130 OPS+.

But Adam's season is just plain dreadful. He looks completely overmatched.

Pitching to Adam Dunn is like playing Russian Roulette with a gun that has a barrel with 100 chambers and 2 bullets. Thank God that the Nats didn't get stuck with him.

Pitching to Adam Dunn is like playing Russian Roulette with a gun that has a barrel with 100 chambers and 2 bullets. Thank God that the Nats didn't get stuck with him.

Ozzie should be fired and investigated to make sure he was not betting against his own team.

I have to agree...with the sentiment, not the hyperbole. Bad enough my team lost, then I tune into a close Yankee-White Sox game to see Adam Dunn bat against Sabathia in the 8th inning? Thanks Ozzie.

Maybe Dunn needs a "DL" stint?

I mean, he's gotta be hurt. At the least he can clear his head a bit. I can't imagine that a fully healthy player would go from Dunn 2010 to Dunn 2011 in one year.

That's really an incredibly brutal lineup in general the Sox used last night.

You had Brent Morel, who has 10 extra base hits and three walks in 77 games. Yes, 3 walks in 77 games. Good thing he's got that mighty .250 batting average bolstering his production.

You got Alexis Rios, with a lower OBP and a lower SLG than Adam Dunn.

You got Dunn, whose batting average is .162, and has 19 more strikeouts than anyone else in the AL despite missing over one-seventh his team's games.

You got Brent Lillebridge, who had an amazingly great first two months to the see, but has hit .200./.288/.262 since June 3. (And that's about what you normally expect from him -- it's a lot closer to his normal line than his first two months production).

You got Gordon Beckham, with his 82 OPS+.

You got Juan Pierre. Thanks to a hot surge over the last five-plus weeks (.342 average in that spell), his OPS+ has risen all the way to 80.

That's two-thirds of the lineup.

Quentin has been good. AJ is defying father time. Ramirez is good.

Sadly, given that Dunn's only strength is power, and that multiple guys in the lineup have worse OPS+ on the year than him, he probably belonged somewhere in the heart of that lineup. Maybe not #4, but at least #6. Yikes.

The real problem is that after slotting Dunn in the #4 hole, Rios was pencilled in at #5. That's one hell of a 4-5 combo.

By OPS+, Dunn is having the best ever season by a player with a BA below .178, and it's not particularly close. He's got 15 points on John Henry's 1914 season.

Poor Dunn looked awful all around last night. He botched a ball in the first inning that led to a run--and never looked good there--and just looked totally lost at the plate, espcially in his last two ABs. The last one, in particular, he looked like me up there, just swinging without any thought to where the pitch was or whether it would be a ball or a strike. I haven't seen anyone look that bad since Soriano in the 2003 playoffs.

That's really an incredibly brutal lineup in general the Sox used last night.

Wait, I thought I heard Sterling say that..."C.C.s facing a tough lineup".

Or was it Kay...

So naturally David Haugh blames Jake Peavy for the Sox loss last night. Haugh - that guy is never not a jackass. He carries the tradition of Chicago sportswriting. Unfortunately, it's the Lincicome-Bayless-Mariotti tradition.

By OPS+, Dunn is having the best ever season by a player with a BA below .178, and it's not particularly close. He's got 15 points on John Henry's 1914 season.

Yeah, but that's like being the tastiest flavor of hemlock.

If you White Sox fans want to see an instant improvement in your offense, just tune in tonight. The last time he pitched the Mariners snapped their 17-game losing streak, and who knows what he might do for an encore.

And yeah, I know this is a feeble effort at reverse jinxing, but with this year's version of Phil Hughes, you need every bullet in the barrel.

The most shocking thing about Dunn's season is he is not doing it for the Mariners or A's.

By OPS+, Dunn is having the best ever season by a player with a BA below .178, and it's not particularly close. He's got 15 points on John Henry's 1914 season.

Yeah, but that's like being the tastiest flavor of hemlock.

if he continues on this pace, he will suffer a 75 point loss in OPS+ (138 to 63) from last season. I'm wondering if that's the largest ever (for a full-time player).

P.S. one of the largest drops ever was Norm Cash, who went from an ungodly 201 in 1961 to a still respectable 136 in 62

Roberto Alomar went from 150 as an Indian to 89 as a Met.

That last AB against Sabathia was one of the sadder things I've seen in a major league game. Dunn was just a defeated man.

I'm most curious about how Ozzie Guillen is managing this, considering he didn't seem to want Dunn on the team at all and has a history of jerking around underperforming players (see: Swisher, Nick)

Rick Wilkins went from 150 (1993) to 83 (1994). He was my first thought for guys who had one standout year.

Would this team be in a playoff hunt had Viciedo taken Dunn's place in the lineup a month ago?

Also, there's an obvious suggestion (if not an answer) for Dunn's 2011: less PEDs. The fact that nobody's brought it up means either a) we don't want that discussion again, or b) we're dismissing the idea out of hand. The former makes total sense...the latter, not so much.

Also, there's an obvious suggestion (if not an answer) for Dunn's 2011: less PEDs. The fact that nobody's brought it up means either a) we don't want that discussion again, or b) we're dismissing the idea out of hand. The former makes total sense...the latter, not so much.

Good point, I forgot about the more stringent testing requirements in AL cities.

Ruth went from 220 in '24 to 137 in '25, that's an 83 point drop off.

Barry Bonds had quite the dropoff from 2004 to 2005. Even bigger going to 2006, his next full season.

McGwire went from 202--> 105 between 2000 and 01, but he wasn't a full-time player in either season. Other notable drops, chosen at random:

Teddy Ballgame 179-->114 58-59
Sixto Lezcano 164-->98 79-80
Lou Boudreau 165-->99 48-49
John Mayberry 168-->94 75-76
John Olerud 186-->124 93-94
Ripken 162--> 92 91-92

Good point, I forgot about the more stringent testing requirements in AL cities.

What's a better explanation for the immense variance among lots of players this season?

What's a better explanation for the immense variance among lots of players this season?

The same factors--age, bad luck, etc.--that caused the huge drops of names everyone has been listing in this thread?

What's a better explanation for the immense variance among lots of players this season?

How is that an explanation at all? If Dunn or anyone else that has demonstrated such variance have been using PEDs, what would have caused them to alter their regimens between 2010 and 2011? There is nothing different in the testing or punishment aspects of the PED policy, so if they've been getting away with it until now, what reason did they have to stop?

This reminds me of Jermaine Dye in 2002-2003. 110 OPS+ to 38. Two years later Dye was the World Series MVP. I can't remember the explanation for Dye's terrible season (it wasn't the broken leg, that was two years earlier).

I mean, he's gotta be hurt. At the least he can clear his head a bit. I can't imagine that a fully healthy player would go from Dunn 2010 to Dunn 2011 in one year.

I was thinking the same thing. Has he had his eyes checked?

P.S. one of the largest drops ever was Norm Cash, who went from an ungodly 201 in 1961 to a still respectable 136 in 62
   20. Random Transaction Generator  Posted: August 02, 2011 at 12:15 PM (#3891161)
Roberto Alomar went from 150 as an Indian to 89 as a Met.

Bagwell 213 to 142
Jim Gentile 187 to 125
George Foster 150 to 90
Adrian Beltre 163 to 93

Why is Dunn even in the lineup against a tough LHP like CC when he was 3-77 against LHP'ers, let alone batting 4th.

Bobby Valentine said this on the TV.

What's a better explanation for the immense variance among lots of players this season?

More pitchers are doing steroids.

How is that an explanation at all?

It's not really an explanation. But neither is "suddenly a whole bunch of formerly good players all aged or started having massive bad luck at the same time."

Teddy Ballgame 179-->114 58-59 PEDs
Sixto Lezcano 164-->98 79-80 PEDs
Lou Boudreau 165-->99 48-49 PEDs
John Mayberry 168-->94 75-76 PEDs
John Olerud 186-->124 93-94 PEDs
Ripken 162--> 92 91-92 PEDs
Bagwell 213 to 142 PEDs
Jim Gentile 187 to 125 PEDs
George Foster 150 to 90 PEDs
Adrian Beltre 163 to 93 PEDs

Sorry, I guess I'm supposed to either parrot groupthink or levy snark.

Your accusations aren't based in logic. There has been no changes to PED testing from last year to this year, why did everyone (everyone being strictly hitters) get together and decide to stop taking them now?

#38 No you're supposed to defend you position with logic.

If you're going to bring PEDs into the discussion you might want to think about what had changed between this and last on the PED front.

If a player's ability is a function of PED use and he's been beating the tests why would he stop?

If he did stop and got off to a start as brutal as Dunn's why wouldn't he restart?

It is plausible that there are PEDs out there that a) work and b) are (currently) undetectable. The drug warriors will always lament that the users are ahead of the game. However nobody can explain why Dunn would suddenly choose to stop taking said PEDs.

Also note that discussions about PEDs and Ibanez or Bautista or Dunn are now in the form of steroids as magic beans. It's a belief in a drug that doesn't produce a bigger body, but something that makes a player better at hitting a baseball without producing any kind of physical change.

(And yes, I know I've argued that steroids in themselves didn't make Bonds bigger -- that this was a training decision)

Your accusations aren't based in logic.

Did I accuse anything? I referred to the PED argument as a suggestion. I submit that the suggestion that "everyone" stopped hitting due to suddenly getting old or bad luck is as unproven as the PED argument.

Also, there's an obvious suggestion (if not an answer) for Dunn's 2011: less PEDs.

Did I accuse anything?

Pretty much. What do you attribute previous downturns in offensive output throughout history?

Also note that discussions about PEDs and Ibanez or Bautista or Dunn are now in the form of steroids as magic beans. It's a belief in a drug that doesn't produce a bigger body, but something that makes a player better at hitting a baseball without producing any kind of physical change.

Those are called amphetamines.

If a player's ability is a function of PED use and he's been beating the tests why would he stop?

If he did stop and got off to a start as brutal as Dunn's why wouldn't he restart?

It is plausible that there are PEDs out there that a) work and b) are (currently) undetectable. The drug warriors will always lament that the users are ahead of the game. However nobody can explain why Dunn would suddenly choose to stop taking said PEDs.

The only reason I could see would be health problems that a player thought had been caused by the PEDs.

That said, I think it's unlikely that Dunn's problem has anything to do with PEDs. Even I don't think they have that much of an effect.

If a player's ability is a function of PED use and he's been beating the tests why would he stop?
It seems pretty obvious to me. He got a one-time injection of undetectable steroids at the start of his career. The steroids were implanted into his appendix where they were released slowly over time. This all happened when he was beamed aboard a spaceship over rural Texas, and his memory of the incident has been erased.

Why is Dunn even in the lineup against a tough LHP like CC when he was 3-77 against LHP'ers, let alone batting 4th.

He's due!

Those are called amphetamines.

Since Andy has assured us all that amphetamines are not performance enhancing, the answer must lie elsewhere.

Is there an obvious reason why Gordon Beckham sucks? Based on his minor league pedigree and rookie season he looked like he would be an All Star.

George Sisler 170-91
Jimmmy Wynn 140-71 (and then back to 146)

If a player's ability is a function of PED use and he's been beating the tests why would he stop?

Maybe they just developed a test for his favorite previously undetectable drug, and his second-favorite still-undetectable drug isn't as good?

Lastings Milledge has to be going crazy down at Charlotte, waiting for a callup that isn't going to come.

[17] You just keep working your reverse-hex magic. Tonight was EASILY the best game Hughes has pitched this year, and maybe the best game he's pitched since the All-Star break last year, hit 95 in the 1st, held 93 or so into the middle innings, threw all of his pitches for strikes at any point in the count, looked confidant ... REALLY encouraging start.

Why is Dunn even in the lineup against a tough LHP like CC when he was 3-77 against LHP'ers, let alone batting 4th.

He's due!

First plate appearance - base hit.