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Saturday, January 19, 2013

NY Daily News: Earl Weaver dead at 82

RIP.

Loud, profane, egotistical, belligerent, confrontational, Weaver never denied being any of those things, but they were merely part of the makeup of what best described the Hall-of-Fame Baltimore Orioles manager: Winner.
In baseball’s manager annals, Weaver, who piloted the Orioles to six division titles, four American League pennants, five 100-win seasons and one World Series championship from 1968-86, ranks seventh all-time in winning percentage (1,480-1,060, .583) and first among managers whose careers began after 1960.

The “Earl of Baltimore” was one of baseball’s most colorful characters, an irascible and volatile 5-foot-6 “gnome” whose arguments with umpires and even his own players, like Hall-of-Fame pitcher Jim Palmer, are the stuff of legend. Weaver’s 97 ejections rank third on the all-time list behind Bobby Cox and John McGraw and to the best of anyone’s knowledge he never apologized for any of them. When asked one time by Orioles outfielder Pat Kelly if he wanted to participate in team chapel and “walk with the lord,” Weaver famously replied: (“No thanks. I’d rather walk with the (bleeping) bases loaded.”

AndrewJ Posted: January 19, 2013 at 09:34 AM | 72 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hall of fame, managers, orioles

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   1. Coot Veal and Cot Deal taste like Old Bay Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:02 AM (#4350498)
   2. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:04 AM (#4350499)
2013 is here for one ####### specific reason.
   3. NattyBoh Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:06 AM (#4350500)
Edit.
   4. NattyBoh Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:09 AM (#4350501)
Edit.
   5. NattyBoh Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:11 AM (#4350504)
Beat my post. I referenced the Baltimore Sun. This is another classic Earl moment -
Earl and the Umpire . I traveled down to Baltimore to see Earl's last game both times.
   6. fra paolo Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:14 AM (#4350505)
One of my favourite baseball managers of all time. He was very wise, if possibly a little too influenced by the Small Sample Size for the purist among saberists.
   7. Morty Causa Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:20 AM (#4350507)
I can't wait to hear what Jim Palmer says.
   8. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:24 AM (#4350509)
Beat my post. I referenced the Baltimore Sun. This is another classic Earl moment -
Earl and the Umpire . I traveled down to Baltimore to see Earl's last game both times.
What I love most about this is that, if you look closely at the scoreboard, it's still the top of the first inning.

Happy Trails, Earl. At least you got to see one more winning, playoff Orioles team before taking off.
   9. Joltin' Joe Orsulak Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:25 AM (#4350510)
Morty, here you go:

http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2013/01/hall-of-fame-manager-earl-weaver-passes-away.html

"When I looked over at Earl during the Brooks ceremony, he was in tears. It's tragic that he passed away, but not only fans got to celebrate, he got to celebrate a legacy that he was such an important part of."
   10. Morty Causa Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:30 AM (#4350513)
Thanks. I thought his reaction would be measured but genuinely felt.
   11. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:32 AM (#4350514)
From Coot Veal's classic "Manager's Corner" video, linked in #1, I shall transcribe a segment sure to warm the cockles of every Primate's SABR-ey heart:
TOM MARR (Orioles broadcaster): Bill Whitehouse from Frederick, Maryland wants to know why you and the Orioles don't go out and get more "team speed."

EARL WEAVER: "Team speed," for chrissakes! You get ####### goddamn little FLEAS on the ####### bases gettin' picked off, trying to steal getting thrown out, taking runs away from you. You get them big cocksuckers that can hit the ####### ball outta the ballpark and you can't make any ####### mistakes.

TOM MARR: Uh, well, certainly this show's gonna go down in history, Earl.
   12. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:33 AM (#4350516)
For Earl's sake I hope Ron Luciano isn't guarding the pearly gates today.

Great manager and for all his on field histrionics I don't remember hearing anything particularly negative about him off the field. "If you play for one run you only get one run" and "pitching, defense and the three run homer" were true then, they are true today and they will be true in 50 years.
   13. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:33 AM (#4350517)
Esoteric: That line should have been engraved on Weaver's Hall of Fame plaque. Hell, it should be engraved on his tombstone. It encapsulates the man perfectly.
   14. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:35 AM (#4350518)
What terrible news, even though if Weaver made it to 82 with his body and his habits, he sure as hell got his money's worth. I was at both of his "last games", and the first of those was one I'll never forget. In what had amounted to a one game playoff for the ALE on the final day of the regular season, the Orioles got blown out by 10 to 2, and yet after the game the entire stadium remained for about 15 minutes just cheering Earl for what he'd done and who he was. It was one of the many reasons I've always thought that Memorial Stadium in the Weaver / Wild Bill Hagy era was the best baseball palace I've ever been in.

   15. NattyBoh Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:41 AM (#4350521)
I can't wait to hear what Jim Palmer says.


"The only thing Earl (Weaver) knows about big-league pitching is that he couldn't hit it." - Jim Palmer
   16. DKDC Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:45 AM (#4350525)
Esoteric: That line should have been engraved on Weaver's Hall of Fame plaque. Hell, it should be engraved on his tombstone. It encapsulates the man perfectly.


Earl joked years back that his tombstone should read "Here lies the sorest loser that ever lived." Or maybe he wasn't joking.

I'm too young to remember Earl in his heyday, but i know that he's a one-of-a-kind character, and he defines the Baltimore Orioles just as much as Cal or Brooks or Eddie or Frank or Jim.

I did have pretty good seats for Cal's 2131 game, and Earl was seated a bunch of rows ahead of me. In the middle of Cal's victory lap, I spotted him walking slowly up the stairs, wiping away tears.

He had a lot of bark, but he was a softie at heart.
   17. pthomas Posted: January 19, 2013 at 12:01 PM (#4350538)
The title of his autobiography, and one of my favorite quotes:

"Its What You Learn After You Know It All That Counts"
   18. John DiFool2 Posted: January 19, 2013 at 12:16 PM (#4350546)
Rather surprised after his abortive comeback that he never got another big-league job.
   19. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: January 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM (#4350555)
Never wanted another one, iirc.
   20. xdog Posted: January 19, 2013 at 01:17 PM (#4350560)
My first thought upon hearing the news was, what the hell was Earl doing on a boat?

A favorite Earl quote, pinpointing exactly the nature of the past-time: "This ain't football. We do this every day."
   21. Gamingboy Posted: January 19, 2013 at 01:17 PM (#4350561)
RIP, Earl. I'm sure that you didn't go without arguing with the Grim Reaper for a few minutes first.
   22. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: January 19, 2013 at 01:19 PM (#4350563)
Losing Prop Joe and Earl Weaver within 24 hours.
   23. The District Attorney Posted: January 19, 2013 at 01:21 PM (#4350564)
Oh, no. What an incredible manager, and I also loved his books and of course the Earl Weaver Baseball video game!

"Swing away, I love the hitters who can wait for strikes."
   24. Bob Meta-Meusel Posted: January 19, 2013 at 01:22 PM (#4350565)
Rather surprised after his abortive comeback that he never got another big-league job.


I was always surprised that he was as young as he was. When he retired the second time (and for good), it was 18 years after he'd started managing the O's, and he'd managed for years in the minors before that. Add in to that the fact that to the 14 year old I was in 1986 he looked ancient and I knew that he'd been the manager of the Orioles for their 69-71 run before I was born, I always assumed that he was about 10 years older than he actually was... at least until I was older and actually checked for some reason.
   25. puck Posted: January 19, 2013 at 01:29 PM (#4350570)
Who deserves the credit for the "Oriole" way and the system that produced all the great gloves? Between the development system and Weaver, that was quite an organization.
   26. puck Posted: January 19, 2013 at 01:32 PM (#4350572)
BTW, I had never heard of the First Year Player Draft before. Very interesting...I came across that link while trying to figure out how Paul Blair ended up on the Orioles after playing his 1st year in the minors for the Mets.
   27. Kiko Sakata Posted: January 19, 2013 at 01:33 PM (#4350573)
Earl was the manager of my first favorite team. I was spoiled. May he rest in peace.
   28. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 19, 2013 at 01:51 PM (#4350591)
Who deserves the credit for the "Oriole" way and the system that produced all the great gloves?

Many (most) people would say Paul Richards
   29. alkeiper Posted: January 19, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4350602)
Between the minors and majors, Weaver had winning records in 25 consecutive managerial seasons. The only season he had a losing record in the majors was his last.
   30. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: January 19, 2013 at 02:31 PM (#4350607)
Wasn't Earl the one manager who figured out Steve Dalkowski?
   31. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: January 19, 2013 at 02:36 PM (#4350610)
Well, looking at the numbers, Earl only sorta fixed Dalkowski. A career-best K/BB ratio of 1.68, yes he still walked 6.4 per 9. However, dig the TWO homers in 160 IP.
   32. Tim D Posted: January 19, 2013 at 02:45 PM (#4350611)
As a Tiger fan who came of age in the 60's Earl was my least favorite manager but always a respected adversary. He always seemed to come up with the extra pitchers, the D (Belanger, Blair and Brooks at the same time, Grich later on, etc, etc) and he always found the role players who just killed Detroit (Crowley, Lowenstein, Elrod Hendricks, etc). The Tigers could have been the AL (East) powerhouse from about 1965-1975 but Baltimore took it away from them with better pitching, D, and management. Earl absolutely rode the other team's pitchers mercilessly from the 1st inning on: "quit ####### off, get that #### over, you suck, #### you and your momma," etc. And of course the umps hated him. He wore the extra long-billed hat and was so short he would get in their face and would get real close to pecking them with the hat. He kicked the dirt, threw them out of the game, used the King's English in ways never heard before, baited them to no end, and could get thrown out of two or three games in a row. He was also a stats guy before the stats revolution, eschewing the bunt and small ball for 3 run homers. "I never told Lee May to hit behind the runner." And he was good at platooning and understood that a cheap Roenicke/Lowenstein platoon in RF might be as productive as Reggie Jackson if he optimized their PAs. Having a handful of Hall of Famers for core members of his teams sure didn't hurt, and he clearly took over a very good team in 1969, but he was a great manager, perhaps the best our era. Having watched his entire career, I would rank him ahead of the other modern big names: LaRussa, Lasorda, Sparky, Cox, Torre, etc. RIP Earl.
   33. Bruce Markusen Posted: January 19, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4350617)
Weaver was pretty humble as far as the role of the manager. As he once said, “A manager’s job is simple. For 162 games, you try not to screw up all that smart stuff your organization did last December.”

I'll always remember one moment with Weaver. It was Game Seven of the 1971 World Series, with the Orioles facing a red hot Steve Blass. In the very first inning, Weaver stormed out of the Orioles’ dugout to stage several protests with home plate umpire Nestor Chylak. Weaver had several objections: Blass was illegally putting his hands to his mouth, wasn’t coming to a complete stop with a runner on base, and wasn’t keeping his right foot in contact with the pitching rubber. The latter infraction grated Weaver the most. “Rule 8:01(b) says you have to be in front of the rubber or on it,” Weaver said adamantly.

It was all part of an effort to rattle Blass, to throw him off his game while he was in the midst of a pitching hot streak. It didn't work--Blass pitched great that day--but it was pure Weaver, trying to get any advantage he could find.
   34. LargeBill Posted: January 19, 2013 at 03:25 PM (#4350628)
RIP ya feisty curmudgeon. No idea whether he's heading to heaven or hell, but one of those places is about to experience more colorful language.

18 years and only one losing season and yet still the guys who bunt and waste outs playing for one run get called geniuses by half-wit experts.
   35. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 19, 2013 at 04:21 PM (#4350658)
The Tigers could have been the AL (East) powerhouse from about 1965-1975 but Baltimore took it away from them with better pitching, D, and management.

That was a good post, but your memory glasses are clouded with Tiger stripes.

Between 1965 and 1975, the Tigers finished a net total of 140 games behind the leaders in the AL (1965-68) or the ALE (1969-75). Aside from their one year of glory and their one division title, they never finished fewer than 10 games behind the leader in any other year besides 1967, when the Orioles were a distant sixth. They also finished second only twice, which means that it wasn't just Weaver and the Orioles who were keeping them down. And in 1974 and 1975 they finished last, by 19 and 37 1//2 games.
   36. just plain joe Posted: January 19, 2013 at 04:21 PM (#4350659)
Wasn't Earl the one manager who figured out Steve Dalkowski?


The story that I read was that Weaver was a big fan of giving his players psychological tests to measure (among other things) their capacity to learn. Apparently Dalkowski's tests showed that he was (to put it charitably) not the brightest guy around. Weaver realized that Dalkowski was not able to absorb complex instruction and told him to just throw the ball over the middle of the plate. Dalkowski had his best year ever pitching for Weaver at Elmira in 1962. The next season he was invited to spring training with the Orioles and hurt his arm while pitching. Dalkowski was never the same again and his career ended a few years later.

EDIT: Carbonated beverage of choice to Gold Star. And also, RIP Earl Weaver
   37. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: January 19, 2013 at 05:04 PM (#4350668)
Never saw him man-

Well, actually,yeah, I did. Those early '70s Orioles teams (which I was of course predisposed to like because Brooks Robinson came from Arkansas) were a blast to watch.

RIP.
   38. The District Attorney Posted: January 19, 2013 at 05:10 PM (#4350670)
   39. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 19, 2013 at 05:15 PM (#4350672)
earl's other football quote was, 'the other team gets as many chances as you do. you can't run out the clock because there isn't a d8mn clock'.
   40. asinwreck Posted: January 19, 2013 at 05:20 PM (#4350673)
Loved watching Earl Weaver manage. Thought he might be nearing the end when he auctioned off his memorabilia a while back. Glad he was in good enough shape to be on a cruise and then suddenly die. There are worse ways to go.
   41. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 19, 2013 at 05:27 PM (#4350675)
I really love the "Arguing during Lineup Exchange" part of the pie chart. He got thrown out 94 times, right? Which means he got thrown out twice before the game even started. Impressive.
   42. Matt Welch Posted: January 19, 2013 at 06:19 PM (#4350686)
The 1969-71 Orioles always struck me as good comps for the 1988-90 A's.
   43. Repoz Posted: January 19, 2013 at 07:55 PM (#4350704)
From Derrick Goold: "Stan "The Man" Musial died today in St. Louis at 5:45 p.m. local time. He was surrounded by family."
   44. AndrewJ Posted: January 19, 2013 at 07:58 PM (#4350706)
The first time two baseball Hall of Famers died on the same day, I presume?
   45. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: January 19, 2013 at 09:58 PM (#4350766)
Evidently so.
   46. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:46 PM (#4350808)
The first time two baseball Hall of Famers died on the same day, I presume?

Earl and Stan are the John Adams and Thomas Jefferson of baseball.
   47. Lassus Posted: January 20, 2013 at 12:18 AM (#4350815)
I recognize his place in treasured baseball lore and American experience; but I must admit I personally never found Weaver's screaming shtick entertaining when employed so frequently.
   48. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 20, 2013 at 12:22 AM (#4350817)
Earl and Stan are the John Adams and Thomas Jefferson of baseball.

But instead of being on the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, it's the 50th anniversary of Gates Brown's first major-league homer.
   49. Posada Posse Posted: January 20, 2013 at 08:58 AM (#4350848)
Pie chart of Earl's ejections.


Shredding the rule book?! I would have paid to see that one. RIP.
   50. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:27 AM (#4350878)
Shredding the rule book?! I would have paid to see that one. RIP.
Wasn't just any rulebook, either -- it was Ray Miller's copy, which he had memorized at Weaver's insistence so Miller could provide instant analyses and applications of esoteric rules. Only problem is that it was also full of Miller's copious handwritten notes about all the rules and their various potential interpretations, which Weaver didn't know when he ripped it to shreds in front of the ump. So when you see pictures of the incident, take notice of the fact that you can see Miller on his hands and knees behind Weaver and the umpire, frantically trying to pick up all the shredded pieces so he can salvage at least some of years' worth of work.
   51. Moeball Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:52 AM (#4350887)
18 years and only one losing season and yet still the guys who bunt and waste outs playing for one run get called geniuses by half-wit experts.


It was a beautiful thing when Bill James first came on the scene because he would often compare and contrast Weaver and Gene Mauch as the two polar opposites of managerial strategy. Suffice it to say Mauch didn't come off very well in these comparisons. Mauch was such an egotist a reporter friend of mine told me of one time after an Angels' loss (where Gene had made some "questionable" decisions, shall we say?) when at the postgame press conference Mauch actually said "Nobody in this room is smart enough to analyze me".

When asked one time by Orioles outfielder Pat Kelly if he wanted to participate in team chapel and “walk with the lord,” Weaver famously replied: (“No thanks. I’d rather walk with the (bleeping) bases loaded.”


Actually, the way the story REALLY goes (which makes much more sense)is this - must have been about 1979, I guess, looking at Kelly's splits - Kelly had apparently killed some rallies with the bases loaded and it drove Earl nuts. So when Kelly told Earl he "wished he would take a walk with the Lord", Earl supposedly replied "and I wish YOU would take a f***ing walk with the bases loaded!"

RIP ya feisty curmudgeon. No idea whether he's heading to heaven or hell, but one of those places is about to experience more colorful language.


Heaven won't take him and Hell's afraid he'll take over.

   52. Morty Causa Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:58 AM (#4350891)
I love Weaver in a lot of ways, and he was ahead of his time, managerially, but I agree with those who say those temper tantrums on the field were intolerable and should not have been tolerated. And it isn't just him. I hate that sort of "bush" behavior, whoever it is.
   53. CFiJ Posted: January 20, 2013 at 11:21 AM (#4350902)
Weaver made my most favorite quote about baseball:

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the ####### plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
   54. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 20, 2013 at 11:45 AM (#4350909)
Weaver made my most favorite quote about baseball:

my favorite quote was: "why don't you take the sacrifice bunt and shove it up someone's ass and leave it there"
   55. depletion Posted: January 20, 2013 at 11:47 AM (#4350910)
If anyone has not read "Earl Weaver on Managing", I highly recommend it. My condolences to the Weaver family and friends.

Regards,
Tim
   56. baudib Posted: January 20, 2013 at 11:49 AM (#4350911)
Did anyone ever figure out why or how Earl was able to get so many innings out of a few pitchers? It is absolutely critical to how he managed his teams. Bill James once wrote about how Earl would agonize over spring training decisions, particularly on the 25th spot, because he platooned of course, and always wanted pinch-hitters and be able to turn half his lineup over and still have suitable defenders.

He was only able to do that, of course, because he could use a 9-man pitching staff. Jim Palmer is one of the HOFers who had a career-threatening injury early in his career, and Earl managed to get a ton of great seasons from guys who didn't otherwise have a success or health elsewhere.

Earl got max production out of so many guys; he really managed more the way an NBA coach does. When you think of the Orioles and Earl, you generally think of Palmer and the great pitching staffs, Frank Robinson, Eddie Murray, Ken Singleton, and making Cal a shortstop. But I think the Lowenstein/Roenicke platoon, and one-dimensional guys like Terry Crowley and Mark Belanger were the keys to Earl's success.
   57. baudib Posted: January 20, 2013 at 11:49 AM (#4350913)
Did anyone ever figure out why or how Earl was able to get so many innings out of a few pitchers? It is absolutely critical to how he managed his teams. Bill James once wrote about how Earl would agonize over spring training decisions, particularly on the 25th spot, because he platooned of course, and always wanted pinch-hitters and be able to turn half his lineup over and still have suitable defenders.

He was only able to do that, of course, because he could use a 9-man pitching staff. Jim Palmer is one of the HOFers who had a career-threatening injury early in his career, and Earl managed to get a ton of great seasons from guys who didn't otherwise have a success or health elsewhere.

Earl got max production out of so many guys; he really managed more the way an NBA coach does. When you think of the Orioles and Earl, you generally think of Palmer and the great pitching staffs, Frank Robinson, Eddie Murray, Ken Singleton, and making Cal a shortstop. But I think the Lowenstein/Roenicke platoon, and one-dimensional guys like Terry Crowley and Mark Belanger were the keys to Earl's success.
   58. puck Posted: January 20, 2013 at 12:16 PM (#4350930)
Did anyone ever figure out why or how Earl was able to get so many innings out of a few pitchers?

Good pitchers, good defense, and he favored starters who threw strikes/put the ball in play where the D could help?
   59. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 20, 2013 at 01:06 PM (#4350957)
Earl and Stan are the John Adams and Thomas Jefferson of baseball.


So Stan's last words were, "Earl Weaver still survives"?

"This ain't football. We do this every day."


You mean, "This ain't no ####### football game. We do this every goddamned day."
   60. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: January 20, 2013 at 02:33 PM (#4350996)
baudib

the defense clearly. that's an obvious one.

earl always kept everyone in the bullpen busy. you were expected to be available to pitch. not pitch in the 7th. not get out lefties. pitch. and if you griped well he would find someone else because earl always believed he had options

he always seemed to have a kid pitcher with a fastball waiting in the wings. some guy who would get 10 or so starts and if he did ok he would get a role in the rotation and if he didn't he would get replaced. the only guy who stayed in that role for more than a season was doyle alexander who lurched around the orioles staff for several seasons before the big trade with the yanks.

i think earl, along with always looking for the next option, was also looking to keep his vets on their toes. didn't want anyone comfy. because if you didn't perform earl would find somebody else

oriole starters didn't throw many different pitches. they threw 2 pitches. would show you a third about 10 times a game. otherwise, it was pitch a, pitch b and in varying sequences. likely reduced stress on arms.

and there was earl himself. knew when to push a guy and when to pull him. he just knew. some things you have to credit for the manager and weaver's actual gift was knowing how to push max results out of a pitcher.
   61. Tim D Posted: January 20, 2013 at 04:34 PM (#4351063)
When young O's starters came up, like Flanagan or Scott MacGregor, they usually did not go to the rotation. They went to the pen and pitched as long guys. Weaver usually always had a swing starter. And he didn't really use bullpen roles IIRC; guys might pitch anytime. He might have 2 or even 3 closers. He also had some pretty good starters and they used the 4 man rotation for a lot of his tenure. Palmer, Cuellar, McNally et al racked up a lot of IP. Finally, he had Ray Miller, who he leaned on and trusted.
   62. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 20, 2013 at 05:17 PM (#4351117)
When young O's starters came up, like Flanagan or Scott MacGregor, they usually did not go to the rotation. They went to the pen and pitched as long guys.


Not really. Flanagan had a cup of coffee in 1975. In 1976, he began the season in the pen and had two long relief outings and eight short ones. He made a spot start in June (only 2.1 innings) and was in the starting rotation from the middle of August to late September. He pitched in relief in extra innings on the last day of the season. Also, he finished the game in seven of his ten relief appearances, so he wasn't exactly a middle releiver either. He was a starter from day one in 1977. MacGregor is a little closer to this platonic "break 'em in in long relief" ideal, except that after his cup of coffee in 1976, his first two appearances of 1977 were eight inning starts. Dennis Martinez broke in as the fifth starter in a five-day (as opposed to five-man) rotation, and pitched a mix of long and short relief in between.
   63. Tim D Posted: January 20, 2013 at 06:58 PM (#4351331)
Well fine, but they weren't just put right into the rotation and knocked out in the 3rd or 4th inning with high pitch counts, requiring extra relievers. Doyle Alexander was there for 4+ years and was a swingman, pitching many more games out of the pen than starting. (Although he wasn't a rookie, he had pitched a year for the Dodgers, but he was a starter.) Wayne Garland pitched in relief for two years. Storm Davis in his rookie year. Sammy Stewart was a starter in the minors but was such as asset as a once in awhile starter and a three inning at a time reliever they just kept him in that role. As you point out all three of Flanagan, MacGrgor and Martinez started out pitching out of the pen. So they weren't specifically "long men." I also noted that Earl didn't really have set "roles" in his pens. He would leave Richert in to pitch to a righthanded hitter in the 9th because he didn't want to see Gates Brown. One day Eddie Watt would close. The next day Stan Williams. Later it would be Stanhouse. Just when you thought Stanhouse was the favorite, Tippy Martinez would be out there in the 9th (often against righthanded hitters). Weaver was ahead of his time in platooning and in preserving his 27 outs. He was a throwback in working his starters hard and relying heavily on a 4-5 man bullpen.He used swingmen and the bullpen by committee. He used relievers 2 and 3 innings at a time. His guys didn't seem to get hurt any more often than anyone else's.
   64. Tippecanoe Posted: January 20, 2013 at 07:08 PM (#4351336)
he looked ancient and I knew that he'd been the manager of the Orioles for their 69-71 run before I was born, I always assumed that he was about 10 years older than he actually was


Don Stanhouse did that to him.
   65. pthomas Posted: January 20, 2013 at 07:14 PM (#4351343)
Don Stanhouse did that to him.


Stan The Man Unusual
   66. Tim D Posted: January 20, 2013 at 07:21 PM (#4351356)
"Full-Pack" because Earl would smoke a full pack down the hallway to the clubhouse while Stanhouse labored through a bases-loaded jam taking a minute or two between every pitch.
   67. Bruce Markusen Posted: January 20, 2013 at 08:18 PM (#4351420)
One of Weaver's best relievers (at least for a short time) was Dick Hall, a six-foot, six-inch right-hander with a neck so long they called him "Turkey Neck." Hall had impeccable control and a rubber arm, and put up two nice seasons for Weaver in 1969 and '70.
   68. Bruce Markusen Posted: January 20, 2013 at 08:20 PM (#4351422)
One of Weaver's best relivers (at least for a short time) was Dick Hall, a six-foot, six-inch right-hander with a neck so long they called him "Turkey Neck." Hall had impeccable control and a rubber arm, and put up two nice seasons for Weaver in 1969 and '70.
   69. Bob Meta-Meusel Posted: January 20, 2013 at 11:35 PM (#4351612)
One of Weaver's best relivers (at least for a short time) was Dick Hall, a six-foot, six-inch right-hander with a neck so long they called him "Turkey Neck." Hall had impeccable control and a rubber arm, and put up two nice seasons for Weaver in 1969 and '70.


And Dick Hall is only about 6 weeks younger than Earl.
   70. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 21, 2013 at 12:12 AM (#4351633)
Stan The Man Unusual

Has there ever been a more appropriate baseball nickname, other than maybe Ross "Skuz" Grimsley?
   71. Coot Veal and Cot Deal taste like Old Bay Posted: January 21, 2013 at 12:34 AM (#4351635)
Has there ever been a more appropriate baseball nickname


dunno, but it's wonderfully clever... if I'm not mistaken, Mike Flanagan deserves the credit for that one.
   72. Morty Causa Posted: January 21, 2013 at 01:04 AM (#4351637)
We could have a contest. Off the top of my head, Dr. Strangeglove for Dick Stuart has to be up there with the best.

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