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1. Scoriano Flitcraft Posted: July 25, 2005 at 12:38 PM (#1496063)Well, Guy linked this inthe dugout and boy did Guy clear that place out. Good to see it get its own thread.
Michael Kay is such a douche.
BUt BTF group think says so, so let's pile on for a mistake that is analagous to that which anyone can and does make.
OK, OR EVEN BETTER, LET'S SELF-AGGRANDIZE BY PORTRAYING OUR POSITION AS THE "CALM SENSE OF REASON AND MODERATION (TM)"!!!!!!!
that is at least a 3-way street (tm)
To each his own. I think he's a terrible announcer. But I have no reason to believe he's a dumbass.
Murcer should have added a brief apology to Kay's.
Scoriano, that's a hell of a strawman. No one seems to be piling on either before or after your post.
But I agree with Sam, he is a bad announcer.
It's easy to get the facts mixed up, but no fewer than Kay, Murcer, the research assistant, the director, at least one producer and the technical audio guy are in charge of listening to Kay at all times.
I'm not a professional baseball guy, but I was yelling at my TV and if I had the phone number to the YES truck in Anaheim, I would have called it. The initial mistake is on Kay, but one of those other parties should have caught it after the first two or three sentences.
It's not that he made a mistake, it's that the mistake was made in the course of Kay the Vain so gleefully assuming the role of avenging knight-errant in the service of poor Derek Jeter's lost honor.
You are a vain and silly man, Michael Kay. And there's stuff dripping out the side of your mouth to boot. I dub thee, "dork."
Posted by <U>Michael Kay</U> on July 25, 2005 at 7:08 PM (#1496118)
Coming up at the plate is triple-crown challenger Derrek Lee. In the offseason, Lee likes to murder women in Louisiana.
Posted by <U>Michael Kay</U> on July 25, 2005 at 7:15 PM (#1513242)
I've just been informed that Derrek Lee and the Baton Rouge Serial Killer are actually two different people. My bad.
Juan Rivera, two Rivera, three Rivera, four...
Phil Mushnick in the Post has a note how 84 year old Bell's Palsy afflicted Ralph Kiner is still sharp. One of the Mets broadcasters said Gary Sheffield has hit 40 HR with every team he has been with. Not with Milwaukee says Ralph.
I think Kay can do a good job of asking his jock broadcasters good questions about how the game is played. But sometimes he is lazy. Two years ago he admitted on his radio show that he does not read Sunday Sports sections in newspapers because he reads the papers for other things that day. Michael, isn't that your job?
And this is a good point. Even if it was Ruben Rivera (that's the right Rivera, right?), why shame him (again)?
And apparently Primer group think has infected the NY Daily News which thinks this simple mistake is worthy of a story.
And let's see ... before post #5 we had the same poster in #1, Guy in #2 who apparently has long-standing issues with Mr. Kay not related to this incident, #3 makes a small joke by bringing up Shawn Jeter (while ignoring Johnny Jeter ... must be a wippersnapper) and #4 says that this is a mistake that anyone can make ... so #5 felt the need to jump in with a comment about Primer group thinkers jumping all over Kay's mistake.
Now Mr. Scoriano, if you would like to debate the merits of Mr. Kay with Mr. LeDouche, have right at it.
There's no point in beating him up over it right now, but he really needs to be more careful in the future.
But what about the sense of self-satisfaction we all get seeing Kay screw up this way? That's worth a lot.
It is to me. It's gold! Gold!
The reason Drew Henson never panned out is because the guy was too into his Muppets.
This is tremendous.
The guy stole Jeter's glove and tried to sell it. That's a little bit different from merely "offending" him.
Is there any doubt that it's O'Neil?
this is a very different mistake from Kay bringing up the incident, for some reason, in a Tampa Bay game and accidentally calling the guy Juan Rivera. that is an easy mistake to make, calling someone by the wrong but similar name.
here, he is talking about a person who he covered for a couple years and is looking right at, and attributing the actions of an entirely different person to him. Ruben was a highly touted Yanks prospect. Juan was a Yanks regular for parts of a couple seasons. the glove stealing incident was a huge story in Yankee land. there is no way he should have confused them like this, it's really unbelievable, and i don't think it's a mistake that anyone could have made. that Murcer didn't catch it is just par for the course, he may be the dumbest man on the planet.
"Is there any doubt that it's O'Neil?"
i hope so. o'neill is terrible. announcers without a voice should write a book (to paraphrase Evidence).
He could easily recall the situation, that it was Jeter's glove, the captain's glove FFS!, yet he can't tell his Juan's from his Ruben's?
They must all look the same to him. Like his maid.
It betrays a terrible lack of preparation. I can see someone, entering the series, thinking "Rivera? Played for the Yankees? Is that the guy that stole the glove?" and then looking it up.
But it's obvious here that Kay never looked it up; he didn't prepare at all. He saw the name and thought he knew, and went out of his way to besmirch the guy. That's pretty terrible announcing, if you ask me, and not a very understandable mistake.
Still, Kay seems contrite about it, so that's something.
When you talk professionally all the time, for thousands of hours a year, these things happen. I don't hold Kay any more responsible than I would hold Rush Limbaugh or Michael Moore to his facts.
I agree. When I put my show together, there are always one or two little errors that sneak through.
This is a pretty ghastly error, though. If he'd just misidentified Juan Rivera as Ruben, I don't think anybody'd care. That's not what he did, though; he said that Juan Rivera was a sneak and a liar and a thief, and that he's got no place being in baseball.
When you're talking about something that serious, you've got to be really, REALLY sure that you know what you're talking about.
Are they smacking Kay around?
I didn't hear him say this, by the way. I heard him essentially tell a Derek Jeter story starring Ruben Rivera.
He more or less factually reported that the Yankees released this guy after he stole Jeter's glove in spring training, and commented on the irony (but didn't use "ironically enough", which would have been proper in this situation) that Jeter would have simply given him a glove if asked.
By the way, he said, "We just made... I just made a terrible mistake."
That indicates to me that he took responsibility for it. A non-issue in my opinion.
He more or less factually reported that the Yankees released this guy after he stole Jeter's glove in spring training, and commented on the irony (but didn't use "ironically enough", which would have been proper in this situation) that Jeter would have simply given him a glove if asked."
I gotta disagree Erik. Kay got on his horse. He said something about first when they showed the Angels' defensive alignment. Then again when Rivera came to the plate. And when Rivera was up, he and Murcer talked all about how there are things that violate the rules of the clubhouse and how wrong JUAN Rivera was for doing it. Then Kay made the payback comment when Jeter turned the DP. They made the same mistake, repeatedly for two innings, and got all high and might about it. They essentially slandered the guy for 3 minutes (as well as before the game, and then, when Kay realized he was wrong, he offered an incredibly brief apology and explanation. Once would have been fine. To go on about it the way he did, and talk about how disgraceful the guy's actions were, and not get the name right, is, IMO, disgraceful. The fact that none of the fact checkers for the network noticed this until the third inning is even worse.
Either one of them makes me turn violent.
I just experienced Hawk Harrelon's White Sox broadcasts for the first time, for a whole 2 games. He's so bad, he puts Kay into proper perspective for me. Makes him seem basically harmless.
I'd like his assistant to clarify for us please.
I thought of it as Kay telling the story (again, more or less factually; or at least as factually as Kay is capable of being when Jeter's honor is at stake), and Murcer kind of half-hearing him and then blathering on interminably about "honor of the clubhouse blah blah blah".
I agree with that. They make 'em much, much worse than Kay.
I think the hatred for him stems primarily from Kay's journalist/editorialist persona, which is one of the most painful and pathetic Yankee homers in existence. In broadcast, he's ok, though he could use a crash course in what is and what is not a home run off the bat. It seems the problem described here is a case of the editorialist sneaking into the broadcast.
(I think people also mix him up with Sterling and Waldman, who are horrific.)
The Rangers announcers are also much worse than Kay.
He has a good voice for it; he's very good at generating a believeable "excited" tone when he has to.
He is generally factually accurate (although he needs work on the fly balls, as Mikael intimates).
His reading on the air is really, really good. A listener can't really tell when he's doing so.
He seems to be a "gamer", certainly he's there almost every day.
Unlike other announcers, you can't tell by listening to him if the production staff is in his ear. The broadcasters have headsets; one side of which is all of the noise - crowd, sound effects, other announcers, etc. The other side is an IFB (interruptible feed back). Most of the time it sounds just like the other side, but when a producer has to talk to his talent, all of the noise shuts off and is replaced by the producer's voice. Many on-air talent immediately shut up when this happens - once you notice it once, you notice it a thousand times. But Kay keeps talking while listening to something unrelated. That takes talent.
Overall, not much south of average. He has his bad points, but many underrated good points as well.
I've been listening to several out of town broadcasts lately, and one thing that I've got to give Sterling major credit for is that while he openly roots for the Yankees, he calls the game with equal drama for both sides.
Vlad's Grand Slam on Thursday got a "IT IS HIGH..." call, when the Yankees lose, he still shouts, "Ballgame over!". He screams at great plays by the other team just like he does for Jeter's great-looking plays.
A lot of other announcers, if the opposing team hits a homer, the call is "hit down the left field line... and that's a homer." And they do it as unemotionally as they would saying "I'm going to get a drink of water".
I find that much more annoying than Sterling's schtick.
That may be so, but he botched one bigtime on the Mets' game on Friday, when Weaver started struggling they had a shot of someone warming up in the Dodger pen and the PBP commented on it ("There's righty John Doe up in the Dodger bullpen") and then like 30 seconds Kiner goes "I'm surprised they don't have anyone warming up"
well, obviously Waldman. Objectively, Kay does have positive attributes. he can speak clearly, he can ask his analysts good questions, etc. i can't stand him but he obviously has some kind of ability.
Waldman speaks through her nose, gets out of breath when she strings together more than 12 words, has orgasms over certain players "owning" certain pitchers based on being 2 for 3 against him in the past...she brings nothing to the table as an announcer.
Speaking of which, on Saturday night Mel Proctor called a ball "off the top of the wall...just missed a homer" when it clearly hit right where the bottom of the wall meets the track. Then, a few batters later, someone hit a ball that bounced ten feet in front of the wall, over for a double, and Proctor called it a home run. My standards for play by play are pretty low, but that was a bit much.
The "revenge" thing made a bad mistake worse. But again, I think people in that position say occasionally stunningly stupid things, and getting a short-time Yankee's name wrong is certainly within that realm.
If people sued talk radio guys every time they bash somebody, the courts wouldn't have time for medical malpracice and insurance suits. Then what would we do for a country?
ah, true enough. right after i sent that, i realized that if, say, rush limbaugh or michael weiner were subject to the same rules as actual journalists (who can be bad enough, god knows), their asses would be in the poor house.
Most magazines fact-check, but newspapers don't.
depends on your definition of fact-checking. i assume tve was referring to line- & copy-editing in newspapers.
Most magazines fact-check, but newspapers don't.
Well, that's the fallacy of the predetermined outcome, in that who can be sure if I would have made the same idiotic mistake had I known I could be sued?
Seaver was actually annoying me more, on the ball Beltran (I think) hit the HR off, Seaver goes "He hit that off a fastball" and then they showed a reply that made it perfectly clear Weaver had spun a breaking ball and just left it there to be crushed and Seaver goes "Bit of a hanging fastball really"
I'm pretty sure it's not, based on the comments "Simmons" made in the last Simmons thread.
I guess this is a difference of opinion, but Kay should have known who Juan Rivera was. The guy was the full time LF in '02 for a month before injuring his knee and then was played a large role on the '03 team taking over starting duties by year's end once again and was a big part of the Vazquez deal.
Yes, but not strange for a Trojan.
Juan Rivera started all four games of the 2002 ALDS against the Angels in left field.
Yes, but did he ever have a Yankee Moment? Michael Kay can't be expected to remember mere team regulars; only True Yankees are deserving of attention and memory.
And look how well that turned out...
I've never heard Michael Kay correctly identify irony and I've only ever heard him misidentify things as ironic.
It doesn't appear you should give him lessons, either.
Just wanted to say that in my First Amendment class, we explored the question of just who qualified as a public figure by taking the example of Jay Buhner.
Michael Kay's was damaged more.
no doubt ... but just how big an element of (non-)libel would that be? i mean, when our aforementioned state reporter screwed up by reporting that a former prosecutor was a convicted felon (problem was, the guy's record had been expunger or his conviction overturned or something like that), he didn't *know* he was misreporting the facts.
I guess Newsweek isn't one of the "Most magagaizene" that fatchecks.
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