Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, June 16, 2009

NY Times: Sosa Said to Test Positive in 2003

Sammy Sosa, who joined with Mark McGwire in 1998 in a celebrated pursuit of baseball’s single-season home run record, is among the players who tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug in 2003, according to lawyers with knowledge of the drug-testing results from that year.

How do people keep leaking this stuff without repercussions? “According to lawyers with knowledge of the [...] results”? Disbarment, anyone?

salajander Posted: June 16, 2009 at 08:17 PM | 197 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cubs, steroids

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 
   1. UCCF Posted: June 16, 2009 at 08:56 PM (#3221209)
Lock it now, before it gets ugly.
   2. Backlasher Posted: June 16, 2009 at 08:56 PM (#3221210)
Say it is isn't Sosa.
   3. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: June 16, 2009 at 08:58 PM (#3221213)
drats.
   4. Gamingboy Posted: June 16, 2009 at 08:58 PM (#3221215)
Alguien puede traducir este artículo para mí?
   5. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:00 PM (#3221221)
I feel like we've been beat over the head with so many allegations and hear-say over the last five years that anyone from the Steroid Era getting linked to PEDs seems anti-climatic.
   6. Tony H. Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:02 PM (#3221223)
Sammy Sosa is a fraud who poops his pants.
   7. hokieneer Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:03 PM (#3221224)
That sucks. Let's hope Griffey, Thomas, Thome, and Bagwell never appear on any lists.
   8. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:05 PM (#3221233)
Yawn.
   9. bunyon Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:06 PM (#3221234)
I'm not surprised but I also agree that all the leaks are damned annoying. Lawyers out there: are there more leaks of supposedly sealed documents in this case than usual? I could well imagine it is the case because of the relativley high profile but also relatively low level of importance. Maybe lawyers figure they'll make a buck. Or is this just SOP? Is there no reason to suppose confidential information will remain so?
   10. zenbitz Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:06 PM (#3221235)
#7. Very nice. And subtle.
   11. Gamingboy Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:06 PM (#3221237)
Okay, I doubt any of us are truly surprised at this. The bigger story here is, of course, the fact it came from the list.
   12. Moses Taylor, Unwavering Optimist Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:07 PM (#3221240)
Disappointed, but not surprised. This is the first actual link to Sosa.
   13. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:07 PM (#3221239)
Innocent until proven guilty, yes, but if we're being honest...is anybody really surprised? Griffey would surprise me, though I can't exactly say why (his physique never changed? His career path, including being an incredible player at age 20? His infectious smile?) The others, nobody would shock me among Thome, Bagwell, Thomas...
   14. RJ in TO Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:07 PM (#3221241)
I feel like this thread is going to hold very few surprises for anybody.


I'm surprised by this thread. I expected Ray to make the "Yawn" comment, not Dayn.
   15. Tripon Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:08 PM (#3221242)
7. hokieneer Posted: June 16, 2009 at 05:03 PM (#3221224)
That sucks. Let's hope Griffey, Thomas, Thome, and Bagwell never appear on any lists.


So you would be okay if Derek Jeter is on this list.
   16. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:09 PM (#3221243)
Please note: the Times story was written by Mike Schmidt.

I think he might be slightly biased.
   17. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:09 PM (#3221244)
Literally no one would shock me. Not Griffey, not Jeter.
   18. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:09 PM (#3221245)
What's the motivation for the leaks? To put the big names out in the public record if the players union wins their case to seize the names of the 104 players?
   19. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:09 PM (#3221246)
So you would be okay if Derek Jeter is on this list.


Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes.
   20. SteveF Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:09 PM (#3221248)
Sweet, sweet vindication for Jay Mariotti. Though constipation is a side effect of steroid use.

Also, which is harder to believe -- the number of names that have been leaked from that list or the number of names that haven't been leaked?
   21. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:10 PM (#3221249)
Griffey would surprise me, though I can't exactly say why (his physique never changed? His career path, including being an incredible player at age 20? His infectious smile?)

He also had that problem with gigantism...
   22. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:12 PM (#3221253)
Also, which is harder to believe -- the number of names that have been leaked from that list or the number of names that haven't been leaked?

The NYTimes has the complete list, and will slowly release them as it suits their corporate interests. The bit@h book drove the ARod report, not sure what is driving this one.
   23. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:13 PM (#3221254)
I'm surprised by this thread. I expected Ray to make the "Yawn" comment, not Dayn.


Well, he was post 8, so it didn't give me much time.

That said, I do believe he needed my permission before making the comment.
   24. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:13 PM (#3221255)
Griffey obviously used, as steroids cause injuries. Other than when they don't.
   25. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:15 PM (#3221258)
Is it ok to include Sosa with the rest of the accused steroid users now? Without multiple irate 'there's no evidence' posts that is...
   26. The Original SJ Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:15 PM (#3221259)
at least the SF Chronicle released the Balco names on consecutive days, not drawn out over months.

If Sosa is the second name they released, maybe the names aren't so big
   27. lar @ wezen-ball Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:17 PM (#3221260)
Roberto Alomar, Barry Larkin, Fred McGriff, and Edgar Martinez (and Robin Ventura, Andres Galarraga and Ray Lankford, to a lesser extent) all played their last game in 2004, so they likely had to take this test. What happens if names on the list keep coming out randomly like this and one of these guys is named only a week before the HOF voting? Or what happens if they get elected and then their name gets "leaked" the day before the inauguration?

Is this a worst-case or best-case scenario?

If I suspected on I was on that list, I would want the names to all come out now, not one at a time every 3 months. That would be torture, I think.
   28. dcsmyth1 Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:17 PM (#3221262)
Hallelulah, Sosa has been outed. I'm in Chicago, saw his entire career here. There is no other ballplayer I've disliked personally so much. His latest comment of a few days ago, to the effect that "I'll just sit back and wait till I'm inducted into the HOF" tells everything you need to know about him. I hope this story has long legs...
   29. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:17 PM (#3221263)
Griffey would surprise me, though I can't exactly say why (his physique never changed? His career path, including being an incredible player at age 20? His infectious smile?)


His physique did change -- he's noticeably heavier than he was 20 years ago. (As is normal and meaningless, but to claim his physique didn't change is rather odd.)

What about his career path would tend to exonerate him, given the all-encompassing standards the steroid zealots use? He had the home run records - just like McGwire. He was frequently injured - just like McGwire. He played until he was 40 - just like Palmeiro.
   30. Darnell McDonald had a farm Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:18 PM (#3221264)
Matt Stairs would be a mild surprise
   31. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:19 PM (#3221265)
What happens if names on the list keep coming out randomly like this and one of these guys is named only a week before the HOF voting? Or what happens if they get elected and then their name gets "leaked" the day before the inauguration?

Is this a worst-case or best-case scenario?


Best case for sure. Then hopefully people will finally stop being outraged and just vote for the best players.
   32. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:21 PM (#3221267)
Matt Stairs would be a mild surprise

Honus Wagner tops my list. No way the Flying Dutchman messed around with that stuff.
   33. hokieneer Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:24 PM (#3221271)
Then hopefully people will finally stop being outraged and just vote for the best players.


Are you trying to put Mariotti, Plaschke, Armstrong, etc out of a job? How could they cover baseball, esp the HOF voting/induction, without grandstanding and preaching to everyone. Who would ESPN have left for ATH?
   34. aleskel Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:25 PM (#3221272)
At last, what we've all hoped for! Sweet vindication for Jay Mariotti!
   35. Khrushin it bro Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:25 PM (#3221273)
I remember thinking that Sosa and Bonds were the two guys with the biggest barrel chests ever when I went to a game in their heyday at Candlestick. I didn't suspect anything back then but I was just a high school punk.
   36. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:27 PM (#3221274)
Is it ok to include Sosa with the rest of the accused steroid users now? Without multiple irate 'there's no evidence' posts that is...


I'm sorry, but where's the evidence? Vague statements by anonymous lawyers who willingly violate court orders? Why would you be so naive and gullible as to trust that people who are so ethically bankrupt that they violate court orders are not lying?

Quoting now from the story:

...according to lawyers with knowledge of the drug-testing results from that year.

...The lawyers who had knowledge of Sosa’s inclusion on the 2003 list did not know the substance for which Sosa tested positive. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they did not want to be identified as discussing material that is sealed by a court order.


These trusted "sources" don't even know what he tested positive for.
   37. AndrewJ Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:28 PM (#3221276)
Can't talk right now. I've got Interleague Fever!!!!!
   38. JPWF13 Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:29 PM (#3221278)
Is it ok to include Sosa with the rest of the accused steroid users now? Without multiple irate 'there's no evidence' posts that is...


I guess so.
I hope the next name is Jeter, oh how I hope, if only to see how the NYC mediots who fawn over him react.


The lawyers who had knowledge of Sosa’s inclusion on the 2003 list did not know the substance for which Sosa tested positive. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they did not want to be identified as discussing material that is sealed by a court order.


Charming...
   39. RJ in TO Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:31 PM (#3221279)
These trusted "sources" don't even know what he tested positive for.


I'm sure we'll find out in a day or two, when Sosa holds his press conference to respond to the accusation.
   40. JC in DC Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:31 PM (#3221280)
This is just a shock. After I'd been convinced not to make much of so-called "steroids" bodies, after I'd been shown that Clem McDouglenut had a similar late-career outlier peak from aught-4 to aught 4 and three days (it was an incredible weekend), after I'd been persuaded to look past the linguistic regression, Sammy turns out to have tested positive for steroids?!? I'm floored.
   41. AndrewJ Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:32 PM (#3221281)
Sosa, who lives in the Dominican Republic, became a national figure with the Cubs in 1998, when he and McGwire, of the St. Louis Cardinals, engaged in a compelling race to overtake Roger Maris’s single-season home run record of 61. McGwire passed Maris first and ended up with 70 home runs. Sosa followed close behind with 66.

The home run race was credited with helping revive interest in baseball after a 232-game strike wiped out the 1994 post-season and the beginning of the 1995 season.


Cal Ripken's 2,131st game says hi.
   42. Gamingboy Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:32 PM (#3221282)
Proof this isn't a big deal: MLB Network is still showing old ASG highlights.
   43. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:34 PM (#3221283)
I'm sure we'll find out in a day or two, when Sosa holds his press conference to respond to the accusation.

His interpreter is booked through the end of the week, so it'll have to wait until Monday.
   44. The Original SJ Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:34 PM (#3221284)
This is just a shock. After I'd been convinced not to make much of so-called "steroids" bodies, after I'd been shown that Clem McDouglenut had a similar late-career outlier peak from aught-4 to aught 4 and three days (it was an incredible weekend), after I'd been persuaded to look past the linguistic regression, Sammy turns out to have tested positive for steroids?!? I'm floored.

Clem McDouglenut was a hell of a ballplayer, but he was hooked on greenies. he cheated too
   45. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:35 PM (#3221285)
I'm sorry, but where's the evidence? Vague statements by anonymous lawyers who willingly violate court orders? Why would you be so naive and gullible as to trust that people who are so ethically bankrupt that they violate court orders are not lying?

Wouldn't these "anonymous lawyers" need to substantiate their claim to the NYT? Or would they simply trust a lawyer with knowledge of the case?
   46. AndrewJ Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:36 PM (#3221286)
Where have you gone, Clem McDouglenut? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you. Woo-woo-woo...
   47. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:37 PM (#3221287)
I'm sure we'll find out in a day or two, when Sosa holds his press conference to respond to the accusation.


Right. And any fair-minded person would at least give Sosa a chance to respond -- and would carefully consider Sosa's response -- before deciding what to make of the accusation.

Unfortunately, many so-called adults are too childish to do this.
   48. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:38 PM (#3221288)
#37 - please tell me you are not completely serious with that post.
   49. kwarren Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:39 PM (#3221289)
Then hopefully people will finally stop being outraged and just vote for the best players.


C'mon man. We need the moral indignation factor, otherwise steroids and amphetamines become the same thing. And there'd be no fun in that.
   50. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:39 PM (#3221290)
I would want the names to all come out now


But this way, you get so many more news stories. Although I see at least ESPN isn't making nearly as big a deal over this as A-Rod.
   51. Gamingboy Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:40 PM (#3221291)
I wonder what the mood will be like during the Cubs-Sox game tonight.
   52. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:42 PM (#3221293)
Hallelulah, Sosa has been outed. I'm in Chicago, saw his entire career here. There is no other ballplayer I've disliked personally so much. His latest comment of a few days ago, to the effect that "I'll just sit back and wait till I'm inducted into the HOF" tells everything you need to know about him. I hope this story has long legs...


I never understood the vitriol for Sosa (other than from Sox fans, they hate everyone)

At some point, everyone would stop caring right? If names keep trickling out, and you get to the 20th leak, it's gonna be a great big who ####### cares.
   53. Gamingboy Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:43 PM (#3221294)
I liked Deadspin's spin on this:
The real outrage here, as it was with A-Rod, is not who's on the list but who's doing the leaking, a story that for obvious reasons The New York Times will not be writing. You'll remember that those tests results were supposed to be confidential — a perfectly reasonable expectation of any employee who submits to a drug test — yet now they're trickling into public view, merely because somebody wants to remind you to care deeply about steroids in baseball again.

The lesson for all Americans: Just say no to drug tests
   54. Covfefe Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:45 PM (#3221296)
I wonder what the mood will be like during the Cubs-Sox game tonight.


Anger at the Sox for getting Sosa hooked on steroids before foisting him onto the Cubs?
   55. DJ Endless Grudge Plays All The Hits (CW) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:47 PM (#3221300)
I can't say I'm surprised by this, but I am a little saddened.

As I said when the A-Rod news leaked, though - jeez, these are sealed court records. This is kinda disgraceful that so many officers of the court don't seem to take those kinds of oaths seriously.
   56. Boots Day Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:48 PM (#3221301)
The NYTimes has the complete list, and will slowly release them as it suits their corporate interests. The bit@h book drove the ARod report, not sure what is driving this one.


For all the complaining about the media around here, you guys show very little knowledge of how they work, or even of basic logic.

Why would the New York Times care how many books Selena Roberts sells? Why would they orchestrate their coverage to benefit her?

If they had the complete list, why wouldn't they release it now? If they knew Sosa was on the list three months ago, why would they wait to put his name out? So that ESPN could have a chance to break the story first?

What "corporate interests" are served by slowly releasing a trickle of names? When they announce on September 6th that Benny Agbayani was on the list, is that going to sell a half-million newspapers?
   57. Covfefe Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:49 PM (#3221302)

I never understood the vitriol for Sosa (other than from Sox fans, they hate everyone)


I've got no vitriol for him. Sure, disappointment in hindsight, sheepish naivete for holding hope on the "he's never been a list" front, whatever...

But you know what?

1998 was a hell of a lot of fun. Easily the second favorite season of my baseball life (1984 will forever hold the top spot... at least until... you know...).

I'm not going get my memory erased or otherwise believe that all the enjoyment I got from 1998 was somehow hollow or wrong. I've got better things to do that relegate cherished memories to some sort of "I'm so sorry I enjoyed it" dustbin.

Fortunately, many people have enough outrage to cover 3 or 4 other fans -- so mine will not be missed.
   58. konaforever Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:50 PM (#3221304)
Why would you be so naive and gullible as to trust that people who are so ethically bankrupt that they violate court orders are not lying?


Wait. So are they lying or are they violating court orders by releasing his name? It can't be both.

Isn't this circular logic? They're ethically bankrupt for violating court orders, so they could be lying. But what are they violating if they're lying?
   59. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:57 PM (#3221307)
Wait. So are they lying or are they violating court orders by releasing his name? It can't be both.


To believe them, you'd have to necessarily believe that they'd willingly violate a court order.

Once you believe that they are willing to violate a court order, how can you trust that they're truthful people who wouldn't simply be lying about the subject matter at hand?
   60. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:59 PM (#3221309)
Agbayani took steroids people! We have confirmation!
   61. Joey B. is counting the days to Trea Turner Posted: June 16, 2009 at 09:59 PM (#3221310)
Now I know why he wouldn't urinate in Rick Reilly's cup!
   62. Tripon Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:00 PM (#3221313)

To believe them, you'd have to necessarily believe that they'd willingly violate a court order.

Once you believe that they are willing to violate a court order, how can you trust that they're truthful people who wouldn't simply be lying about the subject matter at hand?


How is violating a court order lying?
   63. Northpaw Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:04 PM (#3221316)
Literally no one would shock me. Not Griffey, not Jeter.


Not Jason Tyner?
   64. Tripon Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:05 PM (#3221318)

Not Jason Tyner?


Rick Helling?
   65. wjones Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:06 PM (#3221319)
Now I know why he wouldn't urinate in Rick Reilly's cup!

I would like to urinate into Rick Reilly's cap, then force him to wear it!
   66. JPWF13 Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:07 PM (#3221320)
Once you believe that they are willing to violate a court order, how can you trust that they're truthful people who wouldn't simply be lying about the subject matter at hand?


People who violate court orders do so for all sorts of reasons.

But there is an amusing logical conundrum you have ducked with this particular example.

If the lawyer reveals that Sosa was on the list (and Sosa is in fact on the list), then he has violated a court order, but told the truth to the NYT.

If the lawyer falsely claims that Sosa is on the list (and Sosa is not actually on the list), then he has lied to the NYT- but has not actually violated the court order, because he has not divulged any information that was actually sealed by court order...


either way the lawyer should be facing professional sanction imho.
   67. Tripon Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:07 PM (#3221321)
ESPN just reported that multiple lawyer firms have the list of names, due to the Balco's case. So basically the information is already so spread out that there's no real choice to contain it.
   68. JPWF13 Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:08 PM (#3221322)
How is violating a court order lying?


It is not, but arguably reflects on their character.
   69. kwarren Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:09 PM (#3221323)
regarding #37, #48, and #60.

Who is this guy? Sosa's brother, lover, whatever? Every time somebody suggests that Sosa is a suspected steroid user he calls the poster an idiot. Now it appears as if the story is incorrect and Sosa continues to be falsely accused. OK. I guess Sosa can go and sit over beside Clemens another poor guy who has been falsely accused.
   70. Joey B. is counting the days to Trea Turner Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:10 PM (#3221325)
ESPN just reported that multiple lawyer firms have the list of names, due to the Balco's case. So basically the information is already so spread out that there's no real choice to contain it.

I would bet almost anything that it's Barry Bonds and his lawyers that are leaking these names.

Since he's probably not making the Hall of Fame, he's going to sneakily take down everyone else with him too.
   71. Esteban Rivera Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:11 PM (#3221326)
So basically, I have to take someone's word (The Times) that they spoke with someone that has intimate knowledge (lawyers) about the subject (2003 tests) that someone's name (Sosa) is on the list (104 positives) but they don't know what for (assume it is a PED)? This has the makings and credibility of a Mad Lib.
   72. JPWF13 Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:11 PM (#3221327)
ESPN just reported that multiple lawyer firms have the list of names, due to the Balco's case. So basically the information is already so spread out that there's no real choice to contain it.


IOW I work for the wrong firm.

It would take just one person with access to the list to unilaterally decide that releasing it would be the "right" thing to do. They may be like Kevin and passionately believe that for the good of society that the players should all be outed.

OTOH it may be one lawyer who selectively releases names just to take the focus off a specific client...
   73. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:13 PM (#3221329)
#71 - You honestly believe Bonds is the mastermind behind all of this? Even if he directed his lawyer(s) to divulge the names for his personal hall of fame gains - why would they do so?
   74. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:14 PM (#3221330)
I would bet almost anything that it's Barry Bonds and his lawyers that are leaking these names.


Is the part of the thread where we ask for Lazzeri to give us 2000 bucks?
   75. JPWF13 Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:15 PM (#3221331)
I would bet almost anything that it's Barry Bonds and his lawyers that are leaking these names.

Since he's probably not making the Hall of Fame, he's going to sneakily take down everyone else with him too.


Or as a defense tactic - claiming selective prosecution can be a valid defense to criminal charges-
no charges against Palmeiro? Sosa? Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, why is my client being singled out?

Or poisoning the jury pool, if prospective jurors believe everyone was juicing, they'd be more sympathetic to Barry.
   76. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:16 PM (#3221332)
Why would the New York Times care how many books Selena Roberts sells? Why would they orchestrate their coverage to benefit her?

You're correct. A successful book by a former Times writer doesn't help the Times brand at all.

What "corporate interests" are served by slowly releasing a trickle of names?

You're correct. One big day's worth of paper sales and web hits is more valuable than a few big days sales and web hits.
   77. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:16 PM (#3221333)
I hope the next name is Jeter, oh how I hope, if only to see how the NYC mediots who fawn over him react.

And if he's not named, the Jeter-haters will have to invent another reason to avoid the reality that he's an obvious 1st ballot Hall of Famer.
   78. Joey B. is counting the days to Trea Turner Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:18 PM (#3221335)
You honestly believe Bonds is the mastermind behind all of this?

As a matter of fact, yes, I do honestly believe it. Him and/or his lawyers.
   79. Shock Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:19 PM (#3221337)

And if he's not named, the Jeter-haters will have to invent another reason to avoid the reality that he's an obvious 1st ballot Hall of Famer.


Um, who "avoids" that? The only question is whether or not he gets 100% of the vote.
   80. AROM Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:20 PM (#3221340)
Please somebody with access. Just release the whole damn list so we can move on.
   81. JC in DC Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:22 PM (#3221342)
You honestly believe Bonds is the mastermind behind all of this?


If you're talking about the credit crisis and financial meltdown, the answer's "Yes." I don't think he's behind Ben and Jerry's scrumptious Dave Matthews Band® Magic Brownies™ Encore Edition, however.
   82. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:26 PM (#3221345)
#76 - Valid enough I guess. Still doubt it's Bonds behind it all.
   83. Covfefe Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:28 PM (#3221346)
If Derek Jeter truly cared about the good of the game, he would announce that he had taken steroids, apologize for it -- and thus allow us all to move on (well... except for BBTF, where they would again be a hot topic).
   84. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:35 PM (#3221348)
Is it ok to include Sosa with the rest of the accused steroid users now? Without multiple irate 'there's no evidence' posts that is...
It was always okay to include him with "accused" steroid users, because he *had* been accused. The "irate" posts were in response to people calling him a "presumed" steroid user, because until today there *was* nothing linking him to steroids, other than his hitting a lot of home runs in an era when other presumed steroid users hit home runs.

The fact that there is now *something* linking him to steroids doesn't retroactively make those posts okay.
   85. Joe Bivens, Floundering Pumpkin Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:37 PM (#3221350)
It is not, but arguably reflects on their character.

Which doesn't prove that they always lie.
   86. HGM Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:38 PM (#3221351)
It was always okay to include him with "accused" steroid users, because he *had* been accused.

David Wright did steroids.

Now that he's been accused, it's okay to include him with accused steroid users.
   87. Srul Itza Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:43 PM (#3221355)
From ESPN's report on the Times' Report:

Known as the "Caribbean Bambino" after he and Mark McGwire were locked in a home-run race in 1998


Known by who? That is the first time I have ever heard that. Of course, it is so dumb, I could believe Berman came up with it.
   88. Boots Day Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:45 PM (#3221357)
A successful book by a former Times writer doesn't help the Times brand at all.


She works for the competition now. The competition ran an excerpt from her book.

One big day's worth of paper sales and web hits is more valuable than a few big days sales and web hits.


One big day's worth of paper sales and web hits is more valuable than seeing ESPN get a bunch of Web hits for releasing the information you've been sitting on for months.

And releasing the ever-less-impressive names of steroid users is going to lead to rapidly diminishing returns. I don't know how easy it is to check the Times' Web hits or daily sales, but I bet there won't be any noticeable positive movement from this Sosa thing, much less when they release the name of Steve Finley in August.
   89. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:46 PM (#3221358)
David Wright did steroids.

Now that he's been accused, it's okay to include him with accused steroid users.


That's it. I'm calling up Wright, and if he doesn't return my call, it must mean that he's guilty. What a pig!
   90. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:47 PM (#3221359)
Now that he's been accused, it's okay to include him with accused steroid users.
My point was that the dispute wasn't over Sosa being accused of being guilty, it was that he was *assumed* to be guilty.
   91. xbhaskarx Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:48 PM (#3221360)
At one point I wished someone would leak the entire list of 100+ names, but not anymore. Releasing them one by one is a lot more entertaining.
   92. greenback fixes the cable Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:49 PM (#3221362)
Please somebody with access. Just release the whole damn list so we can move on.

You're not getting rid of Gary Matthews Jr. that easily.

At one point I wished someone would leak the entire list of 100+ names, but not anymore. Releasing them one by one is a lot more entertaining.

It's like the aliens who manipulated the universe so that pi would spell out a coded message.
   93. Tripon Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:51 PM (#3221364)
I'll be accusing Aaron Rowand in this thread, and you cannot stop me.

Also, Carlos Ruiz of the Phillies.

And Eric Brynes of the D'backs.

I'm on an accusing spree!
   94. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:53 PM (#3221365)
I'm sure we'll find out in a day or two, when Sosa holds his press conference to respond to the accusation.


Right. And any fair-minded person would at least give Sosa a chance to respond -- and would carefully consider Sosa's response -- before deciding what to make of the accusation.

I completely agree. Let him respond and then react to that. Is that to much to ask when a man's reputation is at stake? And from my strictly biased perspective, it might be nice to know what exactly was the PED in question.
   95. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:53 PM (#3221366)
I'll plant the evidence on Aaron Miles to get him out of the lineup.

And, I'll accuse, I don't know, Hal Morris just because.
   96. Steve Treder Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:55 PM (#3221368)
The real outrage here, as it was with A-Rod, is not who's on the list but who's doing the leaking, a story that for obvious reasons The New York Times will not be writing.

Ain't that the truth.

What proportion of pundits have expressed their righteous indignation over the sorry spectacle of professional athletes engaging in "cheating" in an attempt to improve their performance, as compared to those expressing their righteous indignation over the sorry spectacle of officers of the court violating their sworn duty? Where are the investigative pieces getting to the bottom of the latter story?
   97. Joey B. is counting the days to Trea Turner Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:56 PM (#3221369)
I'll go ahead and accuse David Ortiz, Pedro Martinez, and everyone else from the Dominican 'Roidspublic who was in the league at the time.

It's just too bad Kevin won't be around here when their names inevitably leak out.
   98. Covfefe Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:57 PM (#3221371)
At one point I wished someone would leak the entire list of 100+ names, but not anymore. Releasing them one by one is a lot more entertaining.


I don't know... they've become pretty boilerplate.

1. "Uh-oh... not this ####" comments? check.

2. I hope (usually Derek Jeter) is next... heh heh he... check.

3. Jason Tyner! check.

4. Toldja so. check.

5. Please make it stop. check.

6. Devolution into legalese of case particulars.... half-check (almost got there, but never quite crossed the threshold. Still, it's only page 1)

What am I missing?

If we wanted to make it entertaining, we should have a rule that posts in the thread must be anagrams or something.
   99. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:58 PM (#3221373)
I never understood the vitriol for Sosa

Uh, he was caught cheating. Remember the "one time" he used a corked bat?
   100. Covfefe Posted: June 16, 2009 at 10:59 PM (#3221375)
7. J'Accuse!
Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Brian
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogMyself, OMNICHATTER, two droids, and no questions asked, for June 26, 2017
(3 - 6:24pm, Jun 26)
Last: LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim

NewsblogCreeping Coachism
(3 - 6:22pm, Jun 26)
Last: RMc and the Respective Punishments

NewsblogOTP 19 June 2017: Bipartisan baseball: Dems best GOP, give trophy to wounded Scalise
(1269 - 6:20pm, Jun 26)
Last: 6 - 4 - 3

NewsblogOT - March 2017 NBA thread
(7302 - 6:20pm, Jun 26)
Last: aberg

NewsblogDodgers rookie Cody Bellinger has never heard of 'Seinfeld,' teammates hilariously respond
(39 - 6:18pm, Jun 26)
Last: Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant

NewsblogThe Nationals' bullpen killed a man.
(16 - 6:10pm, Jun 26)
Last: Fadeaway: The Baseball History Podcast

NewsblogIronPigs' Crawford heating up after brief break | MiLB.com News
(5 - 5:52pm, Jun 26)
Last: Fadeaway: The Baseball History Podcast

NewsblogEvery year, players emerge from nowhere to become All-Stars; here are this year’s candidates | The Seattle Times
(32 - 5:50pm, Jun 26)
Last: Davoice of Dapeople

NewsblogThe Giants chemistry is suffering because a guy they all hated is gone
(18 - 5:39pm, Jun 26)
Last: Jesus Frankenstein

Sox TherapyRed Sox Retire Rich Garces' Number
(16 - 5:35pm, Jun 26)
Last: Petunia inquires about ponies

NewsblogTim Tebow moves up a level, proving Mets only care about one thing
(38 - 5:15pm, Jun 26)
Last: bunyon

Sox TherapyJust Keep It Rolling
(27 - 5:14pm, Jun 26)
Last: villageidiom

NewsblogPablo Sandoval placed on the disabled list with an inner ear infection
(34 - 5:05pm, Jun 26)
Last: Bug Selig

NewsblogRays To Acquire Adeiny Hechavarria
(10 - 5:01pm, Jun 26)
Last: JJ1986

NewsblogSandy Alderson: Mets on the verge of being sellers
(9 - 4:46pm, Jun 26)
Last: RMc and the Respective Punishments

Page rendered in 0.6038 seconds
47 querie(s) executed