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Thursday, April 24, 2014

NY Times: The Upshot: Up Close on Baseball’s Borders

Steve Rushin of Sports Illustrated has called the line running through Connecticut that separates Yankee fans and Red Sox fans the Munson-Nixon line. Mr. Rushin came up with the name — in honor of the late Yankee catcher Thurman Munson and the retired Red Sox right fielder Trot Nixon — in 2003, and he had to guess where the line ran: “north of New Haven but south of Hartford, running the breadth of central Connecticut.”

We don’t have to guess anymore.

Fans may not list which team they favor on the census, but millions of them do make their preferences public on Facebook. Using aggregated data provided by the company, we were able to create an unprecedented look at the geography of baseball fandom, going down not only to the county level, as Facebook did in a nationwide map it released a few weeks ago, but also to ZIP codes. We can now clearly see that both Hartford and New Haven are in fact Yankee outposts. We can also determine the precise Chicago neighborhoods where White Sox jerseys stop being welcome and the central California town where the Dodgers cede fan favorite status to the Giants.

This is the perfect tool for outing traitors.

Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 24, 2014 at 12:31 PM | 94 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: fans, general

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   1. DL from MN Posted: April 24, 2014 at 01:53 PM (#4693270)
Cool interactive graphs. Shows how pathetic the local support is in Florida.
   2. cardsfanboy Posted: April 24, 2014 at 02:02 PM (#4693278)
That is one of the coolest things I have seen in a while. Blows away that other map.
   3. TerpNats Posted: April 24, 2014 at 02:03 PM (#4693281)
If anything, it should tell Nats management it needs a major campaign to market the team in outlying areas of Virginia.

Another question, one I ask since I soon may be relocating to Los Angeles: If Arte Moreno found a way to move the Angels to a downtown stadium (perhaps the site near LA Live and Staples Center where Farmers Field was to have been built for the NFL), would the resulting increase in popularity of the team in the city more than offset any loss of Orange County fans he would receive? I say the answer is yes. As long as the Angels play in Anaheim, they essentially are the Devils or Islanders to the Dodgers' Rangers.
   4. esseff Posted: April 24, 2014 at 02:07 PM (#4693288)
Wow!: Alameda County, Giants 49%, A's 28%
   5. Karl from NY Posted: April 24, 2014 at 02:19 PM (#4693298)
Mets fans need to stop looking at this stuff. It's far too depressing.
   6. Karl from NY Posted: April 24, 2014 at 02:23 PM (#4693302)
If anything, it should tell Nats management it needs a major campaign to market the team in outlying areas of Virginia.
The competition here isn't so much the Yankees/Red Sox as it is the Redskins.

If Arte Moreno found a way to move the Angels to a downtown stadium (perhaps the site near LA Live and Staples Center where Farmers Field was to have been built for the NFL), would the resulting increase in popularity of the team in the city more than offset any loss of Orange County fans he would receive?
I think it would, maybe not right away but within a new generation of kids. Your closest comparable of a second-banana team moving downtown is the Brooklyn Nets, who seem to be doing decently well and not missing the New Jersey fans.
   7. Steve Treder Posted: April 24, 2014 at 02:35 PM (#4693317)
Wow!: Alameda County, Giants 49%, A's 28%

Doesn't surprise me in the least. In their entire nearly-half-century in the Bay Area, the A's have never, ever mounted a broadcasting effort that matched that of the Giants. For an organization that's generally seemed so smart in nearly every other aspect, this has always baffled me.
   8. JE (Jason) Posted: April 24, 2014 at 02:43 PM (#4693332)
Mets fans need to stop looking at this stuff. It's far too depressing.

If only Facebook had been around in the 1980s.
   9. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: April 24, 2014 at 02:53 PM (#4693345)
I find it interesting that the Braves are more popular in the outside-the-beltway suburbs than in Atlanta proper
   10. DA Baracus Posted: April 24, 2014 at 02:55 PM (#4693348)
I find it interesting that the Braves are more popular in the outside-the-beltway suburbs than in Atlanta proper


That's why they're moving.
   11. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 24, 2014 at 03:11 PM (#4693367)
I'm waiting for McCoy to look at these maps and start drawing Eastern Front analogies. Who are the Nazis and who are the Commies, and is there any hope for the Red Sox resistance movement along the Cubs/White Sox border?

Mets fans need to stop looking at this stuff. It's far too depressing.

You should ignore the "Yankees" vs. "Also Yankees" NYC map and concentrate on the "Hero" vs "Hoagie" skirmish in the middle of New Jersey, since it looks like somewhere around Trenton the Mets have won over a few Hoagies eaters.
   12. BDC Posted: April 24, 2014 at 03:17 PM (#4693380)
Blows away that other map

I agree, but what happened to that core of Pirates fans in rural Oklahoma? I thought they were cool.
   13. Chris Fluit Posted: April 24, 2014 at 03:26 PM (#4693393)
You should ignore the "Yankees" vs. "Also Yankees" NYC map and concentrate on the "Hero" vs "Hoagie" skirmish in the middle of New Jersey, since it looks like somewhere around Trenton the Mets have won over a few Hoagies eaters.


There's a footnote for that map which notes that the Yankees were removed for that specific map in order to make it possible.
   14. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 24, 2014 at 03:28 PM (#4693397)
They should have also removed the Yankees from the CitiField zip code, since in the Mets' own backyard they outpoll them by 53% to 25%. Which seems weird, since aren't the Mets were supposed to be lovable?
   15. Publius Publicola Posted: April 24, 2014 at 03:42 PM (#4693407)
Yeah, major diss on Mets fans. i would be immensely curious to see how the 5 boroughs break down.

In my view, here is how you can tell the difference between a yankee fan and a Mets fan:

Ethnicity: Yankees= Italian, Mets = Jewish
Politics: Yankees= Republican, Mets = Democrat
Religion: Yankees = Catholic, Mets = Jewish
Occupation: Yankees = blue collar, Mets = white collar
Economic Views: Yankees = capitalists, Mets = socialists
President most admired:Yankees = Eisenhower, Mets = JFK
Favorite sport other than baseball: Yankees = football, Mets = basketball
Favorite actor: Yankees = DeNiro, Mets = Hoffman
Best season: Yankees = 1927, Mets = 1969
Worst season: Yankees = 2004, Mets = TNTC
   16. Publius Publicola Posted: April 24, 2014 at 03:43 PM (#4693408)
Who are the Nazis and who are the Commies


The Nazis are the Yankees and the Commies are either the Red Sox or the Giants.
   17. DL from MN Posted: April 24, 2014 at 03:52 PM (#4693421)
The map makes Durham a pretty attractive place for expansion considering the potential for increased baseball enthusiasm.

I wish it included Canada so we could see where the Blue Jays take over.
   18. DL from MN Posted: April 24, 2014 at 03:58 PM (#4693428)
The Jackson, WY Red Sox affiliate is showing up in the data
   19. Astroenteritis (tom) Posted: April 24, 2014 at 04:02 PM (#4693432)
This is really depressing for Astro fans, because ten years ago Houston would have had San Antonio, Austin, and all of south Texas and it wouldn't have been close.
I'm curious how "contested" areas switch back and forth with the fortunes of the teams. It would be interesting to follow this information for a 20-25 year period.

   20. Karl from NY Posted: April 24, 2014 at 04:03 PM (#4693435)
since in the Mets' own backyard they outpoll them by 53% to 25%. Which seems weird, since aren't the Mets were supposed to be lovable?

Sure, the Mets are lovable. But the Yankee fans are incapable of love.
   21. Publius Publicola Posted: April 24, 2014 at 04:05 PM (#4693436)
The Tigers have to be the team most geographically distant from their fanbase.
   22. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: April 24, 2014 at 04:24 PM (#4693464)
Apparently, if you live in an area far away from a MLB franchise, you're a Yankee fan by default. What areas could actually support a new franchise? New Orleans, Raleigh/Durham, Tidewater (VA), Orlando, Las Vegas, maybe.

Mets fans need to stop looking at this stuff. It's far too depressing.

If only Facebook had been around in the 1980s.


But what happened to all those Mets fans? People coming up on 40 now were kids back in the 1980s, when the Mets were good. Have they all gone over to the dark side in the intervening years?

Far as I can tell, there's only one zip code where the Mets get even one-third of the vote: 11710 (Bellmore, Long Island). Yanks win, 52-33%. (My own zip code is 75% Yankees, which frankly makes me sick.)
   23. Publius Publicola Posted: April 24, 2014 at 04:33 PM (#4693476)
I live in Annapolis, which is Orioles country, but am a Nats fan. We'll see how things evolve over the next few years. Annapolis is about equidistant between the two.
   24. Cat Named Manny Posted: April 24, 2014 at 04:34 PM (#4693480)
I find it interesting that the Braves are more popular in the outside-the-beltway suburbs than in Atlanta proper


The same is true in Boston. I chalk it up to the greater diversity of large cities, which have many more people living there who were originally from other parts of the country, rooting for their hometown/childhood teams, than the suburbs do.
   25. BDC Posted: April 24, 2014 at 04:46 PM (#4693493)
I guess there are so many zipcodes in the New York area that even a club polling 25% of the available fans in each can be a viable proposition. Everything's relative. I would imagine something similar obtains among supporters of London football teams, though more elaborately.

EDIT: and by "viable" I mean they stay in business and win some games. Obviously the richer and better-supported clubs will win more, as has been happening lately with the Yankees wrt the Mets.
   26. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: April 24, 2014 at 04:52 PM (#4693497)
I think that map is one of the coolest things I've seen. I've lived in a lot of places from CT to Iowa ... and it's interesting to check my intuition against the numbers. I'd say it was pretty accurate.

As a Yankee fan that Yankees/Also Yankees map was great. In my zip code in Northern Virginia (Loudoun County) it is only 19% Nats, 18% O's and 17% Yankees ... which is pretty much how it feels too. Also means at least 3 other teams are splitting 46% of the interest, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Outside of the Red Sox I don't know who else that could be.
   27. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 24, 2014 at 04:55 PM (#4693502)
Tragic to see Scranton and Wilkes-Barre now Yankees territory… Phillies hang on in the southern half of the county.
   28. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: April 24, 2014 at 04:57 PM (#4693503)
Also means at least 3 other teams are splitting 46% of the interest, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Outside of the Red Sox I don't know who else that could be.

A lot of people from around the country moving to the DC area and bringing their rooting interests with them, I assume.

Interesting seeing the Danzig-like sliver of Pirates fans in Erie, PA. And also the Red Sox exclaves in North Carolina and Florida (including Naples, where I lived in the 80s. Back then Floridians were Braves and Yankees fans.)
   29. zack Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:04 PM (#4693511)
I'd like to see some sample sizes instead of just percentages. And they MUST be doing some cross-zip smoothing because otherwise some of the results make no sense. Also, do any of the teams run promotions or something that would incentivize likes?

(Obviously I'm a Mets fan).

Oh, and are the Blue Jays excluded entirely, even in the US?
   30. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:08 PM (#4693515)
I wish you could filter by team, in order to see the outlying fan base of each team a bit better.
   31. Don Malcolm Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:11 PM (#4693517)
#17, 19--Excellent points. I've often through that NC is a prime candidate for expansion. And regarding TEX-HOU, the shifts here could, in fact, be measured yearly depending on team performance. Those margins in the Texas counties are razor-thin and would almost certainly flip-flop when/if the Astros become competitive again.

Is there a way to access the DB and see/display where the most closely contested ZCs are across the country? That would be an interesting graphic.

Nice to see the Times pushing its replacement crew for Nate Silver into overdrive and "stealing some thunder" here.

Was there a thread previously on the data created for "Baseball on Facebook" data referenced in the article? That material is from nearly three years ago now, it would be interesting to see it updated.
   32. SOLockwood Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:15 PM (#4693522)
It would have been interesting to see what the breakdown in the East Bay would have been in the late 80s / early 90s when the A's were winning AL Pennants and the Giants were stuck in Candlestick.
   33. DL from MN Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:16 PM (#4693523)
Orlando should be full of Rays fans but it isn't. They are an hour's drive away and Orlando has a Rays radio affiliate.
   34. WillYoung Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:21 PM (#4693528)
Can someone explain to me where you're finding the percentages? I'm apparently oblivious.
   35. DL from MN Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:22 PM (#4693530)
WillYoung - zoom in and highlight the counties
   36. Steve Treder Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:29 PM (#4693537)
It would have been interesting to see what the breakdown in the East Bay would have been in the late 80s / early 90s when the A's were winning AL Pennants and the Giants were stuck in Candlestick.

It would undoubtedly have been more favorable for the A's than it is today. But the Bay Area has always been far more Giants' territory than A's, and I reiterate that the major underlying reason for it is that the Giants have always presented a far more extensive broadcasting effort than the A's, often dramatically so.
   37. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:31 PM (#4693540)
Interesting seeing the Danzig-like sliver of Pirates fans in Erie, PA.

Not sure what you mean by this. It looks like Western PA is unbroken yellow all the way from Pittsburgh up to Lake Erie.

In fact, I thought the whole coast of the lake (Erie, PA; Jamestown, NY) would be more Indians territory than Pirates, but apparently not.
   38. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:52 PM (#4693570)
Strangest thing on the map ... Montauk, NY ... the very tip of the southern fork of Long Island is 40% Red Sox, 39% Yankees, 7% Mets. Just one zip West and Yankee fans outnumber Boston 2:1 and Mets fans double to 14%. What the hell is going on out there?
   39. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:57 PM (#4693577)
Something else that looks buggy ... in the Yankee Stadium zip code, 19% of people aren't Yankees (63%), Mets (11%) or Red Sox (7%) fans?
   40. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 24, 2014 at 06:40 PM (#4693606)
Something else that looks buggy ... in the Yankee Stadium zip code, 19% of people aren't Yankees (63%), Mets (11%) or Red Sox (7%) fans?

I've heard that a lot of the Dominicans rooted for the Red Sox in the days of Manny and Pedro. I think the Mets fans are still steamed about what the Yankees did to the neighborhood playground.
   41. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 24, 2014 at 06:44 PM (#4693609)
In my view, here is how you can tell the difference between a yankee fan and a Mets fan:

Ethnicity: Yankees= Italian, Mets = Jewish
Politics: Yankees= Republican, Mets = Democrat
Religion: Yankees = Catholic, Mets = Jewish
Occupation: Yankees = blue collar, Mets = white collar
Economic Views: Yankees = capitalists, Mets = socialists
President most admired:Yankees = Eisenhower, Mets = JFK
Favorite sport other than baseball: Yankees = football, Mets = basketball
Favorite actor: Yankees = DeNiro, Mets = Hoffman


Well, except for being a Norwegian agnostic and liking DeNiro a thousand times more than Hoffman, I guess I must be a traitor to my class.
   42. Matt Welch Posted: April 24, 2014 at 06:53 PM (#4693616)
If Arte Moreno found a way to move the Angels to a downtown stadium (perhaps the site near LA Live and Staples Center where Farmers Field was to have been built for the NFL), would the resulting increase in popularity of the team in the city more than offset any loss of Orange County fans he would receive?

It would piss off a LOT of the Angels fan base, which as the map attests is basically concentrated in Orange & Riverside counties. You're talking about nearly a half-century of people in a geographic area feeling like they can drive less than an hour to see their team; if they moved downtown maybe 10% of the red in that map could make it there in 60 minutes (on one of the single worst drives in the history of mankind). I think the furthest west Arte could conceivably move the team is the comparatively divided city of Long Beach (my hometown!), where the team almost moved in '66.

On a related note, this map confirms my intense dislike for people who live on westest side of L.A. -- they like the Yankees more than the Angels! AND they drive like a-holes.
   43. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: April 24, 2014 at 06:58 PM (#4693621)
Politics: Yankees= Republican, Mets = Democrat


My guess is that 60% of both, or more, are democrat.
   44. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:00 PM (#4693622)
they like the Yankees more than the Angels! AND they drive like a-holes.


I think among Dodger fans, most-hated goes like this:

Giants
Angels
Yankees

(among the new generation/facebook/social media crowd, the dbacks might slip in there somewhere)

So, yeah.

   45. GregD Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:00 PM (#4693623)
I always remembering hearing the housatonic river was the dividing line in coastal Connecticut. Surprised to see Yankees extending past new haven but have heard yes is on more cable networks in the Milford west haven area than nesn
   46. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:09 PM (#4693627)
Interesting seeing the Danzig-like sliver of Pirates fans in Erie, PA.

Not sure what you mean by this.


Danzig (now Gdansk) was part of a small sliver of land wedged between Germany proper and east Prussia (also German) between the World Wars; this was gone so Poland could have a seaport. (Guess which country Hitler attacked first?)
   47. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:10 PM (#4693628)
Strangest thing on the map ... Montauk, NY ... the very tip of the southern fork of Long Island is 40% Red Sox, 39% Yankees, 7% Mets. Just one zip West and Yankee fans outnumber Boston 2:1 and Mets fans double to 14%. What the hell is going on out there?


Drunken sailors?
   48. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:24 PM (#4693634)
After the departure of the Senators in 1971, Washingtonians spent decades alternately lamenting their plight and treating the Orioles as their home team. That era is over. While the Orioles have held onto many Maryland suburbs, the Nats now dominate Washington and much of the Virginia suburbs. In parts of the Washington region, the Orioles aren’t even the second-favorite team; the Yankees or the Red Sox are.

I got some flak for saying essentially the same thing in another thread. The Nationals have far eclipsed the Orioles in Northern Virginia. In many of the jurisdictions, it's Nationals, Yankees & Red Sox - the Orioles aren't even listed since they're not in the top 3. The Orioles still have a following in some of the Maryland suburbs, but they are clearly losing ground.
   49. TerpNats Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:42 PM (#4693644)
Strangest thing on the map ... Montauk, NY ... the very tip of the southern fork of Long Island is 40% Red Sox, 39% Yankees, 7% Mets. Just one zip West and Yankee fans outnumber Boston 2:1 and Mets fans double to 14%. What the hell is going on out there?
Bosox radio affiliates from southern Connecticut and Rhode Island can be heard at the east end of Long Island, though I'd be very surprised if NESN joins YES and SNY on local cable. And let's not forget Carl Yastrzemski hails from eastern LI.
   50. Juilin Sandar to Conkling Speedwell (Arjun) Posted: April 24, 2014 at 08:21 PM (#4693664)
I love how my Zipcode in Hyde Park is the lone piece of blue surrounded by a field of White Sox fans. Can't but help to think that I contributed a bit there (slash of course there are Cubs fans in Hyde Park).
   51. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: April 24, 2014 at 08:37 PM (#4693670)
As far as I can tell, only two teams "win" every zip code in their state. Name them.

(Hint: No, not them. Second hint: Not them, either.)
   52. Esoteric Posted: April 24, 2014 at 08:56 PM (#4693678)
As far as I can tell, only two teams "win" every zip code in their state. Name them.

(Hint: No, not them. Second hint: Not them, either.)
Without looking, I would guess that it has to be teams that play in culturally uniform states, which means the West and Pacific Northwest, which means the Colorado Rockies and Seattle Mariners. I would be stunned if any other team beat the Rockies in CO or the Mariners in WA in any county, largely because 1.) they're far enough away from the East Coast to escape the dreaded "Yankees/Red Sox bandwagon fan" effect, which I would imagine has less purchase in the regions whose identities are defined in opposition to the Northeast; 2.) neither team has any OTHER team in close enough geographical proximity to siphon off any fans in the way that e.g., the Twins have with the Brewers on the MN/WI border and vice-versa.

Since I hate the NY Times I'm going to bother to check and see whether I'm right. Anyone want to tell me?
   53. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: April 24, 2014 at 09:04 PM (#4693683)
Colorado Rockies and Seattle Mariners

You win teh intranets!

Both the Yankees and Red Sox lose in-state zip codes to the other. The Braves almost make it, but they lose three zip codes on the Florida border to, yep, the Yankees. (The only other uniform states are Vermont, Rhode Island and Maine, which of course root for the Diamondbacks.)
   54. Hysterical & Useless Posted: April 24, 2014 at 09:07 PM (#4693685)
On the train home today I was standing next to a guy wearing a Yankee cap, I really wanted to tell him that Brooklyn is historically part of the National League.
   55. Esoteric Posted: April 24, 2014 at 09:08 PM (#4693686)
Okay, I broke down and looked at the map, and my instincts were 100% correct. Diamondbacks also come close in Arizona, which surprises me, as the few zip codes they lose aren't to the Dodgers (which is what I would've guessed) but rather the friggin' Red Sox and Yankees.
   56. Lassus Posted: April 24, 2014 at 09:09 PM (#4693688)
Satisfaction and contentment make for bad art and boring fans.
   57. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 24, 2014 at 09:13 PM (#4693689)
I would be stunned if any other team beat the Rockies in CO or the Mariners in WA in any county, largely because 1.) they're far enough away from the East Coast to escape the dreaded "Yankees/Red Sox bandwagon fan" effect, which I would imagine has less purchase in the regions whose identities are defined in opposition to the Northeast; 2.) neither team has any OTHER team in close enough geographical proximity to siphon off any fans in the way that e.g., the Twins have with the Brewers on the MN/WI border and vice-versa.


The line between Rockies and Royals almost corresponds to the line between Colorado and Kansas, but the western few counties in Kansas lean toward the Rockies. I feel like if the Royals weren't perennial losers, their territory would encroach on Colorado instead.
   58. Esoteric Posted: April 24, 2014 at 09:22 PM (#4693692)
The line between Rockies and Royals almost corresponds to the line between Colorado and Kansas, but the western few counties in Kansas lean toward the Rockies. I feel like if the Royals weren't perennial losers, their territory would encroach on Colorado instead.
Also, they weren't really part of RMc's 'challenge' because the Kansas City Royals are located in Missouri, not Kansas.
   59. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: April 24, 2014 at 11:47 PM (#4693752)
Orlando should be full of Rays fans but it isn't. They are an hour's drive away and Orlando has a Rays radio affiliate.


The Rays utterly failed to promote in Orlando for the first 10 years or so of their existence. The radio affiliate in Orlando was a station that both (1) powered down at night to make them hard to hear clearly, and (2) featured local programming from 6-8pm, joining the Rays games in progress.

(1) I serviced a dialysis clinic next door to the station and often couldn't hear the station clearly while in their parking lot.

(2) During the Rays improbable playoff run in 2008, the station still refused to stop local programming to broadcast the Rays. Turning to this station at 7:05pm for a playoff game and finding the second hour of pro wrestling/MMA chat or a local show on high school football was very off-puting.

When the new regime came in, they found another station that does broadcast the games from start to finish. The biggest problem now is there are three sports stations in Orlando, and the games are being broadcast on a conservative newstalk station rather than on one of them. It's nice to have the games on the radio, but there is no discussion other than the pre- and post-game shows.

San Francisco, for example, has KNBR as their broadcast partner, a sports station that hammers out Giants news constantly throughout the area. The Rays have never had this benefit.
   60. Howie Menckel Posted: April 25, 2014 at 12:00 AM (#4693755)
"But what happened to all those Mets fans?"

this is a more fickle market than most, so the long recent Yankees reign of terror has legs.

If there's ever some sort of palace coup re Mets ownership AND the Mets become the better team for 3-5 years, the Mets would resume their 1980s dominance in the region....
   61. if nature called, ladodger34 would listen Posted: April 25, 2014 at 01:32 AM (#4693783)
San Francisco, for example, has KNBR as their broadcast partner, a sports station that hammers out Giants news constantly throughout the area. The Rays have never had this benefit.


Until very recently, the Dodgers were on a non-sports station. LA kind of lagged with sports talk until maybe the last 10 years or so. It was always around, but stations came and went.

And to answer an earlier question, the Angels belong in Anaheim.
   62. OCF Posted: April 25, 2014 at 02:04 AM (#4693791)
I love how my Zipcode in Hyde Park is the lone piece of blue surrounded by a field of White Sox fans. Can't but help to think that I contributed a bit there (slash of course there are Cubs fans in Hyde Park).

Well, back when I was a U. of C. grad student, the only games I ever attended were Cubs games. Back then you could just hop on the el on the spur of the moment and buy a ticket at the stadium box office. I gather you haven't been able to do that for some years now.
   63. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: April 25, 2014 at 02:17 AM (#4693793)
The cibs are on a non sports station as are the black hawks amd bears. Cuns amd hawks are on wgn radio and tje bears are on a all mews station
   64. Flynn Posted: April 25, 2014 at 05:40 AM (#4693800)
San Francisco, for example, has KNBR as their broadcast partner, a sports station that hammers out Giants news constantly throughout the area.


That's an understatement. Across the state. You can get KNBR clearly in Los Angeles in the evening, or clearly during the day time in places like Merced and near Yosemite.

If you're in your car almost anywhere in California and there's a Giants game on, you'll know where to find it. Meanwhile the A's had serial musical chairs in the late 90s and 00s, never staying on a radio station for more than a year or two. And most of them were rubbish stations with bad reception even in the Bay Area.
   65. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: April 25, 2014 at 05:50 AM (#4693801)
2) During the Rays improbable playoff run in 2008, the station still refused to stop local programming to broadcast the Rays. Turning to this station at 7:05pm for a playoff game and finding the second hour of pro wrestling/MMA chat or a local show on high school football was very off-putiting.


This is amazing to me. I know the Rays had their AA affiliate in Orlando for a few years, but no one came to the games and the team moved away, despite the fact they were playing at the gorgeous stadium at Disney. My brother is a huge sports fan (Magic season tickets, football bowl games, etc.) but even he never went to an Orlando Rays game; having the stadium near Disney made it too hard to get to, especially to watch minor-league ball. Orlando's just not a baseball town; indeed, it's the largest city in the US without a ballclub.
   66. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: April 25, 2014 at 07:18 AM (#4693810)
Re 53: It's actually New Hampshire, RI and Maine, but for some reason, the system won't let me edit it...
   67. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 25, 2014 at 08:23 AM (#4693824)
The edit key times out within about 10 or 15 minutes, even though it still shows up on your screen. It's always best to proofread your posts immediately if you care about saying what you mean.
   68. TerpNats Posted: April 25, 2014 at 09:25 AM (#4693852)
To #67: See #63 as an example.

I believe KNBR is at least partially owned by the Giants, similar to WEEI with the Bosox.

The Dodgers now are on KLAC, a Fox sports talk station. Blending Vin Scully with Fox "attitude" is a weird mix.

Meanwhile, the Angels' flagship at 830 can barely be heard in the city; it has a dreadfully weak signal. Apparently some of the games are broadcast on 710 (KSPN, the former Autry-owned KMPC) when they don't conflict with Lakers games (not a problem for the rest of this season, at least).
   69. thetalkingmoose Posted: April 25, 2014 at 09:53 AM (#4693875)
To #26: I live in Loudoun County, VA also, and I suspect that Phillies fans make up a non-trivial percentage of the other fans -- although, in the last couple seasons I have noticed a drop-off in the number of number of Phillies stickers, magnets and other paraphernalia I see on others' cars.


I would've been nice if NYT gave the top 5 for each zip rather than just the top 3.
   70. zack Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:01 AM (#4693881)
In defense of Mets fans...would you "like" that organization, even if you're a diehard fan? Maybe we just holdin' out.
   71. Karl from NY Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:15 AM (#4693892)
#70, good point. We're not counting fan affiliations, we're counting fans who clicked Like on Facebook or maybe some other data like hashtags or ad clicks. Of course smug Yankee douche-bags everywhere would be broadcasting that into everyone's faces, while your average Nats fan in Loudoun wouldn't bother. And any franchise needs a run of success during the Facebook era to have any presence, which is what shuts out us poor Mets fans. It would be interesting to see these numbers before 2013 for Boston or 2012 for Washington, who probably picked up the lion's share of their Facebook likes during those years.
   72. Rusty Priske Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:33 AM (#4693907)
Pat?
   73. Rusty Priske Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:38 AM (#4693913)
Add Canada and see which team's fanbase covers the largest area.
   74. DL from MN Posted: April 25, 2014 at 11:25 AM (#4693951)
The Rays clearly aren't maximizing the baseball revenue in the area

1) Move to a new ballpark in Tampa
2) Get better media presence in Orlando, buy a station if necessary

Tampa-St. Pete plus Orlando clearly can support a major league team. They just need to be developed.
   75. The Robby Hammock District (Dan Lee) Posted: April 25, 2014 at 11:56 AM (#4693986)
The problem is that the Rays can't even legally talk to another stadium about leases until 2027. What I don't know is how the contract is worded - whether there's a loophole allowing them to build their own facility and play there without ever actually having to negotiate a stadium deal.

Not that there's any movement on a new ballpark anyway.
   76. John M. Perkins Posted: April 25, 2014 at 11:57 AM (#4693989)
My surprise was comparing my county, Bibb County, GA, to the county south, Houston County.
Bibb: 67% Braves, 7% Red Sox, 7% Yankees
Houston: 66% Braves, 7% Red Sox, 6% Yankees

I incorrectly predicted that Robins AFB would have given more than just another 2% to other teams.
   77. Karl from NY Posted: April 25, 2014 at 12:51 PM (#4694068)
Folks on an AFB aren't necessarily using it for their zip code on Facebook, or posting on Facebook much at all.
   78. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: April 25, 2014 at 01:05 PM (#4694094)
Meanwhile the A's had serial musical chairs in the late 90s and 00s, never staying on a radio station for more than a year or two. And most of them were rubbish stations with bad reception even in the Bay Area.

I'm sort of grateful for this, because the 2000 A's were on KABL - easy-listening oldies. I liked "Sinatra Sundays," so I tuned in sometimes, and happened to catch a couple of games that way; thanks to the magic of Bill King and a fun team, I got back into baseball for the first time in 15 or so years.
   79. Chris Fluit Posted: April 25, 2014 at 01:51 PM (#4694198)
I was kind of surprised to see the Mets rated third here in Rochester, NY. There's no question that the Yankees and the Red Sox were going to rank #1 and #2 (we're in New York state which is typically Yankee territory but we're Upstate so there are plenty of New England connections or anti-NYC resentments). But, just anecdotally, I know a lot more Orioles and Pirates fans in the area than Mets fans. Or at least among those willing to admit it. The Orioles have a strong contingent of fans because the Rochester Red Wings used to be the Orioles affiliate back in the Bobby Grich/Cal Ripken days and indeed the Orioles show up as the third choice in some of the western suburbs.
   80. Steve Treder Posted: April 25, 2014 at 02:20 PM (#4694247)
I believe KNBR is at least partially owned by the Giants

That's my understanding.
   81. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 25, 2014 at 03:16 PM (#4694299)
The Rays clearly aren't maximizing the baseball revenue in the area


What do they care, that free money spends just fine.
   82. DL from MN Posted: April 25, 2014 at 03:55 PM (#4694342)
MLB should care if the Rays are getting every cent out of Florida. Once TB and Oakland situations are improved their next best move as a cartel is expansion. I don't see that happening until TB gets out of that lease.
   83. bobm Posted: April 26, 2014 at 05:48 PM (#4694905)
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/27/upshot/there-is-one-more-baseball-map-we-love-showing-the-second-favorite-teams.html

Even in Upshot-land, where map lovers as a percent of the staff approaches 100 percent, there is such a thing as map overload. We don’t want to get to that point. But this map of second-favorite teams in each ZIP code is too good not to share. [...]

The map also gives Mets and Athletics fans something to cheer about. They may not be the top team among Facebook users in any ZIP code in the country — living in the shadows of the Yankees and the Giants — but they do have fan bases where you’d expect.
   84. Publius Publicola Posted: April 26, 2014 at 06:09 PM (#4694914)
I find this map endlessly fascinating. What's up with the steelcage deathmatch between the Red Sox and Yankees in northern Utah/southern Idaho? SLC should be Angels country.

Also, the next time anyone whines when NY/Boston get more than what seems more than their fair share of exposure in the MSM, refer them to this map to remind them why.
   85. JE (Jason) Posted: April 26, 2014 at 06:58 PM (#4694940)
I find this map endlessly fascinating. What's up with the steelcage deathmatch between the Red Sox and Yankees in northern Utah/southern Idaho? SLC should be Angels country.

Also, the next time anyone whines when NY/Boston get more than what seems more than their fair share of exposure in the MSM, refer them to this map to remind them why.

I wouldn't read too much into the Yankees and Red Sox "winning" Salt Lake City and the surrounding area, Kevin. All it means is that no one club commands more than 20% of that zip code's Facebook baseball fans.
   86. DL from MN Posted: April 26, 2014 at 07:45 PM (#4694966)
Interesting that the Twins are runner-up throughout Wisconsin but the Brewers don't make a dent in MN.
   87. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: April 26, 2014 at 08:34 PM (#4694991)
Also, the next time anyone whines when NY/Boston get more than what seems more than their fair share of exposure in the MSM, refer them to this map to remind them why.
Why exactly do you think they have fans in all these random places?
   88. Publius Publicola Posted: April 26, 2014 at 08:39 PM (#4694996)
Why exactly do you think they have fans in all these random places?


Lots of reasons but the most prominent is that both areas are very densely populated by old school Catholics who followed the church teachings up until recently and cranked out baseball fans like Carter cranked out liver pills. And when they grew up, they migrated to the 4 points of the compass. Another reason is that Boston has a ton of colleges that service the entire country ( and some of those students become Red Sox fans while there) and NY just has tons of people period and they ALL can't stay put.
   89. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: April 26, 2014 at 09:15 PM (#4695018)
Lots of reasons but the most prominent is that both areas are very densely populated by old school Catholics who followed the church teachings up until recently and cranked out baseball fans like Carter cranked out liver pills. And when they grew up, they migrated to the 4 points of the compass.
Well, that certainly explains the dominance of the Red Sox and the Yankees in rural Utah.

Another reason is that Boston has a ton of colleges that service the entire country ( and some of those students become Red Sox fans while there)
I doubt that more people from Utah, Nevada, Idaho, Eastern Oregon and New Mexico are going to school in Boston than are heading to California, but I suppose anything is possible.
   90. Publius Publicola Posted: April 26, 2014 at 09:24 PM (#4695022)
Well, that certainly explains the dominance of the Red Sox and the Yankees in rural Utah.


There's some high tech around SLC and I can imagine a lot of east coasters going out there for the jobs.
   91. Darkness and the howling fantods Posted: April 26, 2014 at 09:55 PM (#4695044)
There's some high tech around SLC and I can imagine a lot of east coasters going out there for the jobs.
I know SLC isn't quite NYC, but it's a bit harsh to include it "rural Utah". Look at Sampete County, or Sevier County, or Millard County, or Beaver County, or Piute County or Wayne County: Yankees, Red Sox, Braves.

A simple explanation of those numbers would be that people in an area without a local team on TV are likely to pick a semi-successful team that is on national TV frequently. Lots of people in Belize are Cubs fans. Not because of any connection between Chicago and Belize City, but because WGN was the only way to watch or listen to baseball there.
   92. DL from MN Posted: April 26, 2014 at 10:42 PM (#4695074)
I remember a former boss explaining that Puerto Rico had quite a few Cubs fans because of Sammy Sosa and WGN.
   93. puck Posted: April 26, 2014 at 11:21 PM (#4695091)
Oh, and are the Blue Jays excluded entirely, even in the US?


This is a good question. Yankees, Red Sox and Mets are 1-2-3 across the counties on the NY border w/Canada--there's no Blue Jays following up there?
   94. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 26, 2014 at 11:27 PM (#4695096)
Yankees, Red Sox and Mets are 1-2-3 across the counties on the NY border w/Canada--there's no Blue Jays following up there?

The War of 1812 left some bitter feelings.

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