BBTF's Newsblog Discussion :: NYT: Torre on Jeter, A-Rod, Beltrán, Pavano, Brown and More

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Thursday, January 29, 2009

NYT: Torre on Jeter, A-Rod, Beltrán, Pavano, Brown and More

More fun bookcerpts…

¶To demonstrate a key difference between Derek Jeter and Alex Rodriguez, there is an anecdote about Rodriguez visiting Jeter’s house and flipping on the TV. Rodriguez asked Jeter where he could find the baseball package, and was stunned that Jeter did not subscribe.

“It was just so funny because Derek will never watch a baseball game other than the one he’s playing in,” said the former Yankees bullpen catcher Mike Borzello, who was there that day. “They’re just complete opposites. I remember Alex’s reaction to it was like, ‘How is that possible?’ ”

¶Though he accuses Kevin Brown of “pitching stupid” by taking the ball in Game 7 of the 2004 A.L.C.S. despite an ailing back, Torre expresses more pity than anger at the troubled right-hander. “There were a lot of demons in this guy,” Torre says, and he mentions that after Brown allowed six runs in the first inning of this 2005 game, he stormed into the visitors clubhouse at Tropicana Field, curled up on the floor in a corner of a storage area and told Torre, “I’m going to go home.” Torre told Brown that if he did that -– if he quit on his teammates — he would never be welcomed back.

Brown got up, fired his cellphone across the locker room, put his jersey back on and threw four more innings. The authors do not mention it, but Brown won his next four starts, the final four victories of his career.

Repoz Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:07 AM | 98 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: books, yankees

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1. McCoy Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:15 AM (#3062835)

I hate watching the food network, for what that is worth.

2. Gamingboy Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:17 AM (#3062840)

Reggie Jackson got the Baseball package, but was disappointed he couldn't see himself play.

3. McCoy Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:18 AM (#3062842)

4. Darren

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:19 AM (#3062843)

Remember the story about Carlos Beltrán’s willingness to take a major discount to play for the Yankees instead of the Mets? Joe Torre tells why: “Beltrán wanted to come to us, so he could hide among the trees. Nobody wants to be that guy to lead.”

Wow. wow. WOW! This has officially entered train wreck territory. Torre has dealt with people in the past, right? He must know how this looks, doesn't he?

5. ekogan Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:19 AM (#3062844)

“It was just so funny because Derek will never watch a baseball game other than the one he’s playing in,”

Is that supposed to be a compliment to Jeter somehow? I don't get it.

6. Tripon Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:20 AM (#3062846)

Whats the point of selling a book if the New York newspapers are giving away all the juicy details?

7. McCoy Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:23 AM (#3062849)

8. Jimmy P Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:24 AM (#3062850)

Wow. wow. WOW! This has officially entered train wreck territory. Torre has dealt with people in the past, right? He must know how this looks, doesn't he?

Well, yeah, only the great Joe Torre can go out front and lead.

9. Jimmy P Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:29 AM (#3062854)

I wonder how much of this is Verducci's writing and views and how much of this is Torre's. I mean a lot of it appears to be Torre's words but then you have snippets about Carl Pavano and that could be from anybody.

True, and that's what Torre will hide behind. But, the book is "By Joe Torre and Tom Verducci", so Torre's involved.

10. Hello Rusty Kuntz, Goodbye Rusty Cars Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:32 AM (#3062857)

“It was just so funny because Derek will never watch a baseball game other than the one he’s playing in,”

Is that supposed to be a compliment to Jeter somehow? I don't get it.

Baseball isn't baseball unless Jeter's playing.

11. Ned Garvin: Male Prostitute Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:33 AM (#3062858)

“It was just so funny because Derek will never watch a baseball game other than the one he’s playing in,”

Wait...does this mean that Derek Jeter is a fraud that hates baseball? Because I think I know what would be said if the tables were turned in this anecdote!

12. Tripon Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:34 AM (#3062861)

A-Rod is a true baseball fan. Jeter would rather play beer pong with the guys.

13. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:35 AM (#3062863)

Whats the point of selling a book if the New York newspapers are giving away all the juicy details?

I'm imagining the book is a going to be a huge snooze fest with these juicy excerpts being the exception. In a way this is like watching a really good preview for a shitty movie. I call this the Pineapple Express Syndrome.

14. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:36 AM (#3062864)

Jeter doesn't like to watch baseball? Just one more reason to hate him!

15. Greg (U)K Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:36 AM (#3062865)

Geez, the book criticizes Rivera too?
This is just straight up strange

16. zonk Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:40 AM (#3062869)

So Adam Dunn is off the hook now, right?

17. Gamingboy Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:40 AM (#3062870)

Torre knows that, in 10-20 years, nobody outside of the hardcore Baseball fans will give a ####. He'll be forgiven. I mean, Jim Bouton was, and the stuff he threw out there was far more scandalous at the time then Torre's stuff is now. And Bouton didn't manage the Yankees to a decade-plus of success.

18. Darren

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:41 AM (#3062871)

The Mariano stuff isn't so bad. Just a comment on strategy and it doesn't look like a direct quote. Not much different from saying he should have thrown a curveball instead of fastball. The other stuff is far worse, especially tooling on Beltran, who he's never managed.

19. Darren

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:42 AM (#3062873)

Also funny that none of the guys who ended up on the Yankees were called out as afraid to lead. They just came to the team because they were winners who wanted to win.

20. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:43 AM (#3062876)

Remember the story about Carlos Beltrán’s willingness to take a major discount to play for the Yankees instead of the Mets? Joe Torre tells why: “Beltrán wanted to come to us, so he could hide among the trees. Nobody wants to be that guy to lead.”

Jesus, I really hope this wasn't the reason they didn't sign him, and I really hope that if Torre believed this he didn't somehow change anyone in the front office's thinking from signing Beltran to not signing him. It is still very very strange that they didn't sign the guy. If this was Torre's doing, then thank god he's gone.

21. Darren

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:46 AM (#3062878)

The hits just keep on coming:

After George Steinbrenner saddled Torre with Kenny Lofton, a clearly extraneous center fielder, in 2004, Torre had to decide whether to list Lofton or Bernie Williams as his center fielder for the official All-Star ballot.

What ever could he have done with Kenny Lofton--he was so clearly extraneous!

Crystal and Robin Williams then went into a 12-minute comedy bit, poking fun at various players before turning serious. They told the players to be grateful for the opportunity and for their health. “And there is somebody we should all pray for, because he has not been blessed with the same great health. So before you go out there, when you hit your knees, say a prayer … for Carl Pavano!”

The great thing about that one is that, no matter who's writing it, it makes Torre look pretty bad.

22. Lassus Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:51 AM (#3062885)

The great thing about that one is that, no matter who's writing it, it makes Torre look pretty bad.

I don't get this part. How does it? I don't even see anything about Torre in the quote. Could you explain that bit?

(I think Torre is looking terrible in general because of this, but I don't understand how your quote illustrates that.)

23. Darren

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:53 AM (#3062888)

It's Robin Williams and Billy Crystal. They're terrible! And they're making fun of player for being injured. And it was all on Torre's watch.

24. Lassus Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:55 AM (#3062890)

Um. Yeah, (if you're serious) still not seeing it.

BUT, I agree Torre looks awful for the things he's so far, er, actually connected to.

25. Tripon Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:56 AM (#3062891)

It's Robin Williams and Billy Crystal. They're terrible! And they're making fun of player for being injured. And it was all on Torre's watch.

Yeah... and it's Carl Pavano. Guy doesn't have a leg to stand on.

So is Kevin Brown the 'high priced ace' that refused to take the mound?

26. The Essex Snead Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:58 AM (#3062893)

You know what this book needs? More Pavano anecdotes.

27. Darren

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:59 AM (#3062894)

I stumbled on this while looking for something else, but man, it's one of the best Joe Torre exultation's I've ever seen.

http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ssf/2008/09/joe_torre_saluted_for_turning.html

Any guy who can turn Manny Ramirez, Nomar Garciaparra and Derek Lowe into team players has to be manager of the year.

And so we salute you, Joe Torre.

Manny wasn't exactly "Mr. Team" in his Boston Red Sox years, especially from April to July of this one. Things got so bad that the Bosox had to find a way to get him out of town. They had to pay most of his salary to do it, but that was small price when measured against the discord.

Nomar G? There's Grumpy personified. He grew disenchanted in Boston, and didn't do much better in Chicago, even after getting over the shock of being traded.

Derek Lowe? Baseball has a history of players labeled as "flakes," and he fits the pattern, starting with his Boston years. He has never been an easy pitcher to handle, even on his good days....

In the stretch drive, Manny definitely was Manny at the plate, but not in the clubhouse. As the scent of a division title overtook him, Nomah began to hit and drive in runs. And what of that unpredictable sinkerballer, our man Derek? He has been there all season for Torre, delivering 33 starts, 200-plus innings and pitching down the stretch like a true ace.

Only in La-La Land? No, only in Torre-land.

Where do I start?

28. Esoteric Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:00 AM (#3062895)

The Beltran quote is AWESOME. So outrageously insulting, so gratuitous, so guaranteed to get Torre into an almighty shitstorm of trouble...and yet also almost certainly true, in sync with everything else that's been written about Beltran.

29. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:01 AM (#3062896)

I can't wait for Torre's The Dodger Years.

30. Ray (RDP)

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:02 AM (#3062897)

Though he accuses Kevin Brown of “pitching stupid” by taking the ball in Game 7 of the 2004 A.L.C.S. despite an ailing back,

This is a classic lose-lose. If Brown had refused to pitch, citing his back, Torre would have written that Brown wasn't a gamer -- wasn't tough, didn't have character, wasn't a winner, etc., like all the players Torre had from 1996-2000.

But of course, Torre is just looking to scapegoat Brown. It's the manager's job to evaluate all the information at his disposal and decide who to send to the mound.

31. zonk Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:03 AM (#3062898)

Will there be any stories about Andy Phillips and dead hookers? Because I think that I'd be all the way sold on buying it if there are.

32. The Kids Are Enright (1k5v3L)

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:03 AM (#3062899)

Remember the story about Carlos Beltrán’s willingness to take a major discount to play for the Yankees instead of the Mets? Joe Torre tells why: “Beltrán wanted to come to us, so he could hide among the trees. Nobody wants to be that guy to lead.”

So maybe Beltran did sign with the Mets because he wanted to ride Pedro's coattails...

33. Darren

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:04 AM (#3062902)

The Beltran quote is AWESOME.

Yes!

So outrageously insulting, so gratuitous, so guaranteed to get Torre into a shitstorm of trouble.

Amen!

...and yet also 99% likely to be true.

Ye... wait, why? Beltran carried the Astros on his back through the playoffs--he didn't seem to have any problem being the man. He also could have returned to the Astros rather than be the savior the Mets.

34. Esoteric Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:05 AM (#3062904)

Oh, and the best/worst part about Billy Crystal and Robin Williams...neither guy has been funny for what, 20 years? In fact, were they EVER funny? Sure they insulted a team member, but more importantly their mere presence was an insult to the team's intelligence.

I sort of like Crystal as a mime in Spinal Tap, though...

35. Gamingboy Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:07 AM (#3062905)

I hope he has the epic blow-by-blow of the classic bout between Kevin Brown and a Camden Yards wall.

36. Esoteric Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:10 AM (#3062906)

Ye... wait, why? Beltran carried the Astros on his back through the playoffs--he didn't seem to have any problem being the man. He also could have returned to the Astros rather than be the savior the Mets.

I'm not trying to knock on Beltran, who is a magnificent player. But he's clearly not the "vocal clubhouse leader" type at all. He just wants to keep his head down and clobber the holy bejesus out of the ball whilst sailing around the outfield...which is all anyone should ever reasonably ask of a player.

I don't doubt he liked the idea of being "just another superstar" on the Yanks as opposed to Mr. Franchise -- with expectations to match -- on the Astros or Mets. In fact, I seem to recall some of the stupider Mets fans out there giving him crap during the first year of his contract in precisely this fashion (he was actually very productive but not bashing a ton of homers, IIRC, and as the Big Superstar Contract he became a focal point for idiot criticism).

Despite the fact that all this is true (or rather, 99% likely to be true), it still comes across as utterly classless for Torre to be taking shots at A GUY HE NEVER EVEN MANAGED. To say nothing of the fact that Beltran has, in fact, been worth every penny the Mets spent on him and then some.

37. Darren

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:16 AM (#3062910)

I would just disagree about how much you can tell about Beltran if you don't know him, and that's precisely why it's so ridiculous for Torre to say this.

If players come to the Yankees because they want to hide among the trees, why does a guy manage the Yankees?

38. The Essex Snead Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:21 AM (#3062913)

If players come to the Yankees because they want to hide among the trees, why does a guy manage the Yankees?

To get an anonymous handjob in the forest?

39. Tripon Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:25 AM (#3062916)

I can't wait for Torre's The Dodger Years.

Chapter one: ##### about young players
Chapter two: ##### about veteran players.
Chapter three: ####### JUAN PIERRE.
Chapter four: MANNY!
Chapter five: More All-State commericals!

40. McCoy Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:26 AM (#3062918)

Robin Williams was pretty darn funny in his New York special. His golf bit is one of the funniest bits I've heard in the last 10 years.

Billy Crystal? His humor has been much much more mild and tame over the last few decades.

41. Ray (RDP)

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:38 AM (#3062932)

When the pinch-runner Dave Roberts stole second base in the fateful ninth inning of Game 4 of the 2004 A.L.C.S., Tom Verducci and Torre write, he had no intention of stealing second on the first pitch because his legs were not yet loose. But Mariano Rivera helped him by making three pickoff attempts before his first pitch to Bill Mueller. “Rivera had done him a favor,” the book says. “Roberts was now fully immersed in the flow of the game. His plan had changed. He made up his mind to steal on the first pitch.”

Woohoo! Nothing is Joe Torre's fault! His hindsight vision has perfect clarity!

42. rfloh Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:39 AM (#3062933)

In fact, I seem to recall some of the stupider Mets fans out there giving him crap during the first year of his contract in precisely this fashion (he was actually very productive but not bashing a ton of homers, IIRC, and as the Big Superstar Contract he became a focal point for idiot criticism).

The problem wasn't that he was not bashing a ton of homers. The problem was that he was playing with torn muscles in his legs. The Mets didn't want to deal with the bad publicity of their superstar signing missing lots of time, so they foolishly played him.

Some stupid fans still haven't gotten over that yet.

43. Tripon Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:55 AM (#3062944)

Woohoo! Nothing is Joe Torre's fault! His hindsight vision has perfect clarity!

That's not a Torre quote though. It sounds like Verducci's is speaking in the 3rd person there.

44. zonk Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:03 AM (#3062946)

More fun excerpts...

It was a sticky April in Tampa - and the Yankees had just come off a tough loss to hard tossin' Casey Fossum. Torre had done his level best to get the mighty Yankees on track, sitting motionless and quiet on the bench, focusing his considerable mental powers on projecting calm, but the restless Yankees were incapable of absorbing the soothing emanations that had allowed them to overcome the hindrances of a bloated payroll for so many years.

The Yankees had been undone again by Alex Rodriguez and his insistence on hitting a pair of homeruns en route to an empty 4 for 5 day. Only Saint Derek had played like a true Yankee - demonstrating his humility by grounding into a doubleplay, selflessly waving at groundballs to keep the outfielders involved in the game.

Something had to be done. Bernie Williams' teats - off which many fine young Yankees had suckled, and grown strong with Yankee goodness - were no more. Tino Martinez and his fine stash of Colombian blow were likewise history.

Tears welled in Jorge Posada's eyes as he listened to Johnny Damon tell a local beat writer how much better the tacos were in Oakland.

Jorge Posada crying!

Was there no end to the indignity mighty Joe must suffer?

On one side of the clubhouse, Derek Jeter bravely smiled as he played beer pong with Andy Pettitte while on the other, Alex Rodriguez selfishly watched a television... some sporting event involving a man throwing a ball at another man with a wooden bat.

No more! Torre shot glances at Scott Proctor and Miguel Cairo - and the so-called analysts had questioned his desire to keep them on the roster - who jumped to attention and held the hated Rodriguez against a locker. Torre disappeared into his office for a moment, returning with a semi truck battery and what looked like jumper cables. A quick jedi mindtrick to blot the memories of the assembled media - the screams of agony from the non-team player known as A-Fraud - and VOILA...

The Yankees were motivated enough to lose the next day, but do it with Yankee class.

45. RJ in TO Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:05 AM (#3062948)

That's not a Torre quote though. It sounds like Verducci's is speaking in the 3rd person there.

Does it really matter if Verducci is speaking in the 3rd person? Torre also "wrote" the book, and should have read it before it went to press. Even if Torre didn't necessarily "write" that part himself, he's endorsed it by leaving it in.

46. Tripon Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:10 AM (#3062951)

[45] Sure it does. Verducci's the writer, and he's making as many grandiose claims as he can so people will buy the book. And you're right, Torre also 'wrote' the book, but he doesn't have absolute final say on what does and doesn't make the final print. Anyway, there's probably 20 or more different sources in this book. Sure Torre comes out as a dick in this book, but the other anonymous sources aren't? We shouldn't try to paint Torre with such a large brush and just villainy him for the crap he actually said.

47. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:13 AM (#3062952)

zonk, I didn't realize that your handle was a tribute to a baseball player. I always thought that it was an homage to Zonker Harris of the British peerage. But Rod Beck may've had something to do with that.

48. zonk Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:33 AM (#3062962)

zonk, I didn't realize that your handle was a tribute to a baseball player. I always thought that it was an homage to Zonker Harris of the British peerage. But Rod Beck may've had something to do with that.

You can bet Keith Moreland has the baseball package - though he probably doesn't watch it when the Longhorns are on.

49. Roger Cedeno's Spleen Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:33 AM (#3062963)

I never knew it was Torre's ambition to be the Buddy Ryan of baseball...

50. Brian

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:34 AM (#3062965)

The problem was that he was playing with torn muscles in his legs. The Mets didn't want to deal with the bad publicity of their superstar signing missing lots of time, so they foolishly played him.

I don't think so. No one plays with torn muscles in their legs or any other parts they actually use. Strained? Yes. Pulled? Another version of strained, Yes. Sore? Definitely. Torn? No.

51. rfloh Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:40 AM (#3062968)

Brian Posted: January 28, 2009 at 09:34 PM (#3062965)
The problem was that he was playing with torn muscles in his legs. The Mets didn't want to deal with the bad publicity of their superstar signing missing lots of time, so they foolishly played him.

I don't think so. No one plays with torn muscles in their legs or any other parts they actually use. Strained? Yes. Pulled? Another version of strained, Yes. Sore? Definitely. Torn? No.

Actually, "strains" and "pulls" are muscle tears. Just as "sprains" are ligament / tendon tears. Just because it isn't a complete rupture, a grade 3 tear, doesn't mean that it isn't a tear. "Sore" is a different issue. Also, if that "strain" persists for most of the season, then playing him is ridiculous. At least the Mets were not dumb enough to pull a Pirates:ARam type trade with Beltran.

52. zonk Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:49 AM (#3062973)

At least the Mets were not dumb enough to pull a Pirates:ARam type trade with Beltran.

Like they couldn't use Bobby Hill...

53. Brian

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:53 AM (#3062978)

Strains and pulls go under the heading of miniscule tear on a micro level. Hell, lifting weights creates tiny tears. However, a tear that is diagnosed as a torn muscle? You're not playing.

54. JB H Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:57 AM (#3062979)

<3 Darren

55. Ray (RDP)

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 04:01 AM (#3062983)

That's not a Torre quote though. It sounds like Verducci's is speaking in the 3rd person there.

That may or may not be true, but it doesn't matter to me in the least. This book has Torre's name on it. Therefore, he owns it -- and he owns every word of it. I'm not going to sit here trying to figure out who wrote which passages; if the authors don't tell us who wrote what, I certainly don't see the need to guess at it.

At least from the quoted excerpts, Torre comes off as an ass for writing it.

56. RJ in TO Posted: January 29, 2009 at 04:04 AM (#3062986)

Ray, could you please not agree with me. It makes me feel dirty.

57. Rough Carrigan

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 04:46 AM (#3063004)

I would love to know how they know that, it sounds like typical armchair reporting by a writer to me then anything of real substance.

So, it was a "Woodward-ism".

58. Exploring Leftist Conservatism since 2008 (ark..) Posted: January 29, 2009 at 05:25 AM (#3063021)

Brown got up, fired his cellphone across the locker room, put his jersey back on and threw four more innings. The authors do not mention it, but Brown won his next four starts, the final four victories of his career.

Well, no.

59. RB in NYC (Now with New iPhone!) Posted: January 29, 2009 at 05:37 AM (#3063027)

Well, no.

Well, yes. The game in question is this one and the next four starts Brown did indeed go 4-0 with a 2.16 ERA. (In fact, I saw the last one in person which means I saw the last win of Kevin Brown's career, I had no idea.) What the hell are you talking about?

60. Exploring Leftist Conservatism since 2008 (ark..) Posted: January 29, 2009 at 05:57 AM (#3063035)

Er, would you believe I misread the gamelog at BBRef from Brown's 2005 season and mistook the team W for Brown getting the wins on June 15 and July 18? But hey, I'm glad you took it so well.

<slinks away from thread>

61. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: January 29, 2009 at 06:05 AM (#3063040)

I'm with Ray and Ryan here. If Torre is the co-author, then all of these passages are direct quotes as far as I'm concerned.

62. J. Michael Neal Posted: January 29, 2009 at 06:31 AM (#3063052)

Alex Rodriguez selfishly watched a television... some sporting event involving a man throwing a ball at another man with a wooden bat.

Shane Warne owned the Rod.

63. Tripon Posted: January 29, 2009 at 06:36 AM (#3063054)

I'm with Ray and Ryan here. If Torre is the co-author, then all of these passages are direct quotes as far as I'm concerned.

Its a freaking ghost written work, without going though the pretense that its ghost written.

64. rfloh Posted: January 29, 2009 at 06:39 AM (#3063056)

Brian Posted: January 28, 2009 at 09:53 PM (#3062978)
Strains and pulls go under the heading of miniscule tear on a micro level. Hell, lifting weights creates tiny tears. However, a tear that is diagnosed as a torn muscle? You're not playing.

Not on a micro level. A strain or a pull is a grade one tear. There is a big difference between a grade one tear and the damage sustained by physical activity, not just lifting weights.

65. Guapo Posted: January 29, 2009 at 06:40 AM (#3063057)

#44 = primey

66. Lassus Posted: January 29, 2009 at 07:00 AM (#3063061)

When the pinch-runner Dave Roberts stole second base in the fateful ninth inning of Game 4 of the 2004 A.L.C.S., Tom Verducci and Torre write, he had no intention of stealing second on the first pitch because his legs were not yet loose. But Mariano Rivera helped him by making three pickoff attempts before his first pitch to Bill Mueller. “Rivera had done him a favor,” the book says. “Roberts was now fully immersed in the flow of the game. His plan had changed. He made up his mind to steal on the first pitch.”

Woohoo! Nothing is Joe Torre's fault! His hindsight vision has perfect clarity!

This could ALMOST sounds like a passive/aggressive placing of the responsibility on Rivera, which would be... just... unreal.

On PTI the other day Kornheiser referenced the book that Verducci had written with Torre (Chasing the Dream, 1997) previously where one of them had said Torre had approved every single word and that there was no doubt in his mind Torre had done the same with this book. His name is FIRST on the cover of the book. There seems to be no argument that makes sense that anything in this book isn't Torre's responsibility. If he says so, he's lying, spinning, or totally stupid.

67. Ray (RDP)

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 07:10 AM (#3063063)

Its a freaking ghost written work, without going though the pretense that its ghost written.

That may or may not be true, but I don't care. Even if Torre didn't write a single word, he still had the obligation -- at least as far as I'm concerned -- to read the entire thing and say "No, I don't want my name on a book that says that." Or, at the very least, "No, I won't put my name on the book unless you attribute that passage to yourself."

In other news, I happened to catch Mike Francesa the other day saying "We know Joe didn't write this for the money." Um, we do? How in the world do we know that? Is Torre giving his portion of the proceeds to charity?

I'm with Joe Sheehan: this is the Torre we've seen for at least a couple years now. It's consistent with the man who batted ARod 8th in order to scapegoat him and take advantage of the public perception of him.

68. Vaux, A.B.D. Posted: January 29, 2009 at 07:12 AM (#3063064)

If Torre approved every word, then he said everything in it as much as the last few U.S. presidents have said the things they said . . .

69. Tripon Posted: January 29, 2009 at 08:09 AM (#3063074)

Torre better have approved of this:

>>One of my favorite moments in the Verducci/Torre book is about Roger Clemens as he prepared to face the Mets in Game 2 of the 2000 World Serious. Verducci writes that Clemens’ usual pregame preparation included taking a whirlpool bath at the hottest temperature possible. “He’d come out looking like a lobster,” Yankee trainer Steve Donahue told Verducci. Donahue would then rub hot liniment all over Clemens’ body. “Then Donahue would rub the hottest possible liniment on his testicles,” Verducci writes.

“He’d start snorting like a bull,” the trainer said. “That’s when he was ready to pitch.”

http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/01/28/great-balls-of-fire/

70. DCW3 Posted: January 29, 2009 at 08:28 AM (#3063078)

Will there be any stories about Andy Phillips and dead hookers? Because I think that I'd be all the way sold on buying it if there are.

Oh, you heard about that too?

71. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: January 29, 2009 at 08:33 AM (#3063079)

#69:

Wow.

72. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 29, 2009 at 08:49 AM (#3063083)

This is awesome. Not only do I get to learn some of the crazy #### that goes on in major league clubhouses, but the media and fans are turning on Torre.

73. jwb Posted: January 29, 2009 at 08:49 AM (#3063084)

So maybe Beltran did sign with the Mets because he wanted to ride Pedro's coattails

and to bask in the long shadow of Nelson de la Rosa.

74. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: January 29, 2009 at 09:41 AM (#3063086)

Thanks, Zonk. #44 made my night/morning.

75. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: January 29, 2009 at 09:44 AM (#3063087)

#69 - Wow, indeed. And what luck with the way the numbering system worked out! Kudos to you...

76. RB in NYC (Now with New iPhone!) Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:23 PM (#3063095)

Er, would you believe I misread the gamelog at BBRef from Brown's 2005 season and mistook the team W for Brown getting the wins on June 15 and July 18? But hey, I'm glad you took it so well.

<slinks away from thread>

Sorry, I was a bit sleep-deprived yesterday and instead of doing the sensible thing and going to bed, I decided to stay up and make cranky posts.

77. Dudefella Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:34 PM (#3063098)

So, I'm confused as to how I should feel about all this. On one hand, Torre breaking clubhouse confidences = not True Yankee behavior. On the other hand, Torre primarily calling out Not True Yankees like A-Fraud, Carl Fraudvano, and Fraud Kevin Brownfraud. It's all very puzzling. For now, I'm going with, Joe Torre, Contains Natural and Artificial Yankee Flavors.

78. bunyon Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:43 PM (#3063100)

I agree with everyone (my official BTF role). I would guess that this is a typical ghost written book and that Torre didn't read it very carefully. However, that doesn't absolve him from the responsibility for what is said. His name is on the book as an author (first, at that) therefore, he said whatever is in there. Can't take the money and "glory" of "writing" the book and not the responsibilty for what was said.

So, Torre is either a lazy, greedy guy who put his honor and reputation up for sale or he's an ungrateful ass for what he said. Either way, if I'm one of the guys who gets slammed in this book, I punch him in the gut next time I run into him.

79. bunyon Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:44 PM (#3063102)

I'm sorry, Jon. If True Yankee = keeping clubhouse secrets, then there haven't been any true Yankees in 60 years.

80. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 01:56 PM (#3063106)

“Then Donahue would rub the hottest possible liniment on his testicles,” Verducci writes.

Whew, that's a relief. Clemens is off the hook now, right?

81. Rants Mulliniks (formerly Cold Prosimian) Posted: January 29, 2009 at 02:29 PM (#3063118)

Zonk, thanks. I actually had to quit reading halfway through because I was starting to laugh and a couple of people were standing outside my office.

What the hell is this testicle business? That can't be an excerpt from the book. If so, no wonder Joe always sat with his legs crossed.... I'd do the same thing if there was a guy in the clubhouse willing to rub another man's testicles and call it "work".

82. Styles P. Deadball Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:07 PM (#3063141)

Ray, could you please not agree with me. It makes me feel dirty.

But he only wants to help you!

83. Howie Menckel Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:14 PM (#3063151)

off their Website chat with co-author Verducci

SI.com: Will Joe Torre be surprised by anything that is in this book?
No, Joe Torre is not surprised by anything that's in this book. He has read and re-read and re-read the book. We've been working on it since last November.

84. Big Train Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:32 PM (#3063169)

How can 100% of this not be attributed to Torre? Whether or not this was ghost written, his name is on the jacket, and I am sure he had the final say.

This is all on Joe Torre.

85. Dan The Mediocre Posted: January 29, 2009 at 03:44 PM (#3063179)

How can 100% of this not be attributed to Torre? Whether or not this was ghost written, his name is on the jacket, and I am sure he had the final say.

This is all on Joe Torre.

Pretty much.

86. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: January 29, 2009 at 05:03 PM (#3063288)

Is there any reason given for Clemens having the trainer rub the liniment on his balls instead of doing it himself? Was this really a task he needed help with? Did Clemens and/or the trainer get a half-chub?

87. Lassus Posted: January 29, 2009 at 05:07 PM (#3063293)

“Then Donahue would rub the hottest possible liniment on his testicles,”

I knew we could somehow blame the liberals for Roger's uncontrollable rage.

88. The Polish Sausage Racer Posted: January 29, 2009 at 05:13 PM (#3063301)

Apparently a hand job was also part of the pre-game regimen?

89. tfbg9 Posted: January 29, 2009 at 05:27 PM (#3063316)

Well, yes. The game in question is this one

And, I believe that is the bad Brown start that so infuriated our own Scoriano
Flitcraft, a wealthy lawyer, that he posted Kevin's address in the Game Chatter,
just in case any lurking Yankee fans wanted to go egg his McMansion...Pinstripe Class,
Pinstripe Pride!!!

90. Dan The Mediocre Posted: January 29, 2009 at 05:31 PM (#3063320)

Is there any reason given for Clemens having the trainer rub the liniment on his balls instead of doing it himself? Was this really a task he needed help with? Did Clemens and/or the trainer get a half-chub?

If you get it on your pitching hand, it affects your throwing. If you get it on your glove hand, it affects your receiving.

91. RB in NYC (Now with New iPhone!) Posted: January 29, 2009 at 05:34 PM (#3063325)

And, I believe that is the bad Brown start that so infuriated our own Scoriano
Flitcraft, a wealthy lawyer, that he posted Kevin's address in the Game Chatter,
just in case any lurking Yankee fans wanted to go egg his McMansion...

Really? Damn, I was in Europe at the time, otherwise I would have totally egged Kevin's house. That's clasic.

92. RJ in TO Posted: January 29, 2009 at 05:35 PM (#3063326)

If you get it on your pitching hand, it affects your throwing. If you get it on your glove hand, it affects your receiving.

Or he just wanted to humiliate the trainer a bit.

93. The Good Face Posted: January 29, 2009 at 05:49 PM (#3063335)

Or he just wanted to humiliate the trainer a bit.

94. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 05:56 PM (#3063342)

I'm now picturing Roger Clemens standing there, buck naked, arms akimbo, while scurrying trainer minions slather hot liniment all over his coin purse as he barks orders at them to ensure maximum coverage.

Man, it's very Roman, isn't it? I wonder if Roger had them install a vomitorium in the lockerroom for postgame buffet binging and purging.

95. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 29, 2009 at 06:03 PM (#3063345)

Why is this news? It's common knowledge that Cy Young paid a crippled Chinee in snuff to massage his prostate with elixir of passenger pigeon.

96. Swedish Chef Posted: January 29, 2009 at 06:53 PM (#3063402)

if Roger had them install a vomitorium in the lockerroom for postgame buffet binging and purging.

Why would he care if he threw up in a theater egress or not?

97. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: January 29, 2009 at 06:56 PM (#3063407)

Why would he care if he threw up in a theater egress or not?

You didn't click my link!

98. RJ in TO Posted: January 29, 2009 at 07:04 PM (#3063416)

I'm now picturing Roger Clemens standing there, buck naked, arms akimbo, while scurrying trainer minions slather hot liniment all over his coin purse as he barks orders at them to ensure maximum coverage.

Thanks. So much for lunch.

"THE LEFT ONE FEELS UNUSUALLY COOL ON THE UNDERSIDE! EVEN THE DISTRIBUTION, MY LACKEYS! AND HURRY! THESE THINGS AREN'T GOING TO SLATHER THEMSELVES!"

99. Styles P. Deadball Posted: January 29, 2009 at 08:25 PM (#3063468)

Half of Yankee Stadium is either cooking or puking!

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