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Thursday, September 27, 2012

Oakland A’s pitcher Dallas Braden goes ballistic at Stockton town meeting

EVERYBODY’S CARRYING A ROD!

Injured A’s pitcher Dallas Braden was at the center of a bizarre scene during an anti-violence rally in his hometown of Stockton on Wednesday. Wearing a backwards hat and carrying a bat, Braden yelled at Stockton police chief Eric Jones, saying the city’s police isn’t doing enough to keep citizens safe.

Braden, whose Stockton pride runs so deep he has a “209” tattoo, said in a television interview that he plans to move out of town. He claimed his grandmother was robbed recently and that he was attacked in his car, though he didn’t get into specifics.

Apparently, the bat was to symbolize how violent things had become.

“Arm yourself or get out,” he said in an interview with CBS13. “It’s the wild west and the boys in blue, they’re outgunned. My anger is for fear for our community. ... I’ve already put my home on the market here. I’m out.”

Repoz Posted: September 27, 2012 at 10:45 PM | 133 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: oakland

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   1. Dan The Mediocre Posted: September 27, 2012 at 10:58 PM (#4247752)
Did they also step on his mound?
   2. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:12 PM (#4247760)
Wearing a backwards hat and carrying a bat, Braden yelled at Stockton police chief Eric Jones, saying the city’s police isn’t doing enough to keep citizens safe.


Hmm. Seems like this is nothing that George Zimmerman couldn't solve. What could go wrong?
   3. Gamingboy Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:13 PM (#4247761)
WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!
   4. PreservedFish Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:18 PM (#4247766)
What does Malkmus think?
   5. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:23 PM (#4247769)
Really where does he think he lives gary or detroit or chicago? So a black family moved in get over it.
   6. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:25 PM (#4247771)
The Mamluks think that the Sublime Porte stands on feet of clay, and it is time to throw off the yoke of the Sultan and claim power in a new and independent Egypt.
   7. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:29 PM (#4247776)
Actually Stockton's crime rate is pretty bad, usually in that top 10 worst in America category. Doesn't help that the city filed for bankruptcy last year and the real estate market has tanked well beyond your typical 2008-2011 tanking.
   8. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:30 PM (#4247777)
Braden sounds lost in the foothills of his mind.

(Or his pride. Or Mount Pine. It depends.)
   9. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:31 PM (#4247782)
The real estate market tanking would be the reason why the city filed for bankruptcy, right?
   10. akrasian Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:31 PM (#4247783)
I’ve already put my home on the market here. I’m out.”

And nothing enhances home values like making sure it's highly publicized that there is a high crime rate in your neighborhood. It's good that he's so honest about things.
   11. Tripon Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:31 PM (#4247784)
Stockton is one of those cities that bet heavily on expanded housing and millions of dollars in redevelopment projects didn't were really just a slush fund for people politically connected to the mayor and city council. Add the approved package and expansion of pension benefits and a recession and you have a city that probably should have gone bankrupt years ago.
   12. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4247789)
Really where does he think he lives gary or detroit or chicago? So a black family moved in get over it.


Last year Stockton had the 10th highest violent crime rate in the country, they're bankrupt so they've been slashing the police budget with a concomitant rise in the murder rate, and the city's really poor and shows no signs of becoming non-poor any time soon.

EDIT: Cokes
   13. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:52 PM (#4247797)
Last year Stockton had the 10th highest violent crime rate in the country, they're bankrupt so they've been slashing the police budget with a concomitant rise in the murder rate, and the city's really poor and shows no signs of becoming non-poor any time soon.

other than that, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln?
   14. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:55 PM (#4247799)
Stockton is one of those cities that bet heavily on expanded housing and millions of dollars in redevelopment projects didn't were really just a slush fund for people politically connected to the mayor and city council. Add the approved package and expansion of pension benefits and a recession and you have a city that probably should have gone bankrupt years ago.


One of my clients is a Fixed Income PM and I remember him using the term a number of years ago: 'Stockton Munis' to describe any awful municipal bonds. I suspect Assured Guaranty (a likely insurer of the debt) is taking the biggest bath on Stockton's bonds, and of course the city is pretty much screwed for some time, not necessarily the bond holders.
   15. dr. scott Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:55 PM (#4247800)
Stockton and Vallejo are the dual armpits of northern Ca. So many bad decisions and bad luck. Vallejo was written up in Michael Lewis last book about the global financial crisis. Scary stuff. Unfortunately these places could be more canarys in the coal mine than outliers.
   16. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: September 27, 2012 at 11:59 PM (#4247802)
Vallejo eh? Does that mean CC's put his house on the market as well?
   17. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: September 28, 2012 at 12:03 AM (#4247804)
And nothing enhances home values like making sure it's highly publicized that there is a high crime rate in your neighborhood. It's good that he's so honest about things.

What he did probably won't help things, but OTOH, he seems like a pretty high-vis "local guy"- played little league in Stockton, went to a community college nearby, now plays for the A's. If there really is an issue with the police not doing their jobs, this kind of thing actually might galvanize change.

I've recently moved to the San Jose area, and I've heard several complaints along the lines of "these layoffs in the [sunnyvale] police force might cause the ones who weren't laid off to un-aggressively pursue law enforcement opportunities, like what's happening in Stockton".

Bad thing is, it's only going to get worse, since I doubt if CA can fix it's problems without QE-level federal intervention.
   18. PreservedFish Posted: September 28, 2012 at 12:15 AM (#4247809)
Stockton and Vallejo are the dual armpits of northern Ca.


Modesto, Fresno, Salinas ... there are a lot of broken towns here.
   19. dr. scott Posted: September 28, 2012 at 12:33 AM (#4247814)
Yes it's a close race but Stockton and Vallejo are the leaders, and as you said not really outliers dispite bankruptcy and non functional govt. I read in the Lewis book the mayor of Vallejo has one staff member who's only job is to write pension checks to former city employees, and that is the only staff member in the mayors office. All the money goes to pensions. San Jose has the same problems but they have not collapsed yet, but there are few long term forecast that don't have a reasonable probability of that happening there also. If only all the city govts had bought Facebook stock... Wait. I think they did.
   20. Tripon Posted: September 28, 2012 at 12:43 AM (#4247822)
Sleepy, the cops in Stockton are jerks. They tried to fight the rollbacks in their pension benefits by placing billboard ads in the cities that such a move would force layoffs and crime to skyrocket and promise that they can't police the city.
   21. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: September 28, 2012 at 12:55 AM (#4247826)
Sleepy, the cops in Stockton are jerks. They tried to fight the rollbacks in their pension benefits by placing billboard ads in the cities that such a move would force layoffs and crime to skyrocket and promise that they can't police the city.
Sounds like the backstory for Robocop.
   22. smileyy Posted: September 28, 2012 at 01:00 AM (#4247827)
So, if you're the employer agreeing to a pension benefit, don't you kinda have to fund that benefit? Rather than hoping you'll have enough money to fund it in the future, and default when you don't? Oh wait, that latter part is the strategy, isn't it?
   23. Joe Kehoskie Posted: September 28, 2012 at 01:09 AM (#4247829)
Sleepy, the cops in Stockton are jerks. They tried to fight the rollbacks in their pension benefits by placing billboard ads in the cities that such a move would force layoffs and crime to skyrocket and promise that they can't police the city.

Well, from the sounds of things, they were right. With Stockton's crime rate, they were probably understaffed even before any cutbacks occurred. (And as I've made clear in the "OT: Politics" threads, I'm not a fan of public-sector unions or their retirement/pension plans.)
   24. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:35 AM (#4247844)
Sleepy, the cops in Stockton are jerks. They tried to fight the rollbacks in their pension benefits by placing billboard ads in the cities that such a move would force layoffs and crime to skyrocket and promise that they can't police the city.
Well, from the sounds of things, they were right.
Tripon- I don't have any numbers to back anything up, just conversations with locals, but my ignorant take on the perception down here is that folks think stockton cops are passive-aggressively intentionally failing to do their jobs. I don't know the local politics at all (been working 80ish hours a week finishing a MBA and trying to shine at new job), but in terms of water cooler stuff, folks here are losing sleep over it, since they think it might be contagious. And we're 80 miles away.

Anyway, don't know if the stockton cops were even doing what my coworkers attribute, but my personal take is, I'd enjoy seeing a bit player like Dallas Braden at least get make someone high-up answer some tough questions.
   25. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: September 28, 2012 at 03:26 AM (#4247849)
Sleepy, the cops in Stockton are jerks. They tried to fight the rollbacks in their pension benefits by placing billboard ads in the cities that such a move would force layoffs and crime to skyrocket and promise that they can't police the city.

Well, from the sounds of things, they were right.

So the city is bankrupt and the citizens are not safe. Property values are plummeting and so the city's revenues will decline further, and police funding will fall even more. Their being "right" isn't going to make things better.
   26. Greg Schuler Posted: September 28, 2012 at 11:07 AM (#4247998)
Was it a full-sized bat or a mini bat? Because you can look bad-ass with a mini-bat when clearing bums out of the alley. How about the shirt - did he rock the sleeveless look?

As far as the underlying problem, Stockton should claim a local Al Qaeda cell and let the Feds roll in. Then again, the Feds have been gifting surplus military equipment like crazy to local law enforcement for the past few years - sometimes, it is hard to tell the difference between the local SWAT team and a combat patrol in A'Stan.
   27. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 28, 2012 at 11:23 AM (#4248016)
Well, from the sounds of things, they were right. With Stockton's crime rate, they were probably understaffed even before any cutbacks occurred. (And as I've made clear in the "OT: Politics" threads, I'm not a fan of public-sector unions or their retirement/pension plans.)

The problem here, as well as in other cities (e.g. Newark, NJ) is that instead of taking benefits cuts across the board, the Police unions refused, and forced the cities into layoffs.

So, you end up with fewer, really well-compensated cops, instead of more well-compensated cops.
   28. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: September 28, 2012 at 11:34 AM (#4248021)
Stockton is, ever has been, and ever will be, a ########. I have family in the Central Valley, which is home to some of the direst places on the west coast -- Visalia, Fresno and Bakersfield are no gems, either, in addition to the other places named above -- but Stockton is the bottom of a very deep barrel. Dangerous, gray, glum, and hot as the surface of the sun. One doesn't know whether he wants to cry or puke when driving around town. Most of my relatives have packed up and moved on, after a hundred years of living there: my grandfather bailed back in the 50s, his brother's kids have all moved to LA or San Jose.

Also, my friend got mugged at a gas station there while we were caravanning from LA up to Portland. So, yeah. It sucks there.
   29. esseff Posted: September 28, 2012 at 12:01 PM (#4248045)
Stockton is the bottom of a very deep barrel. Dangerous, gray, glum, and hot as the surface of the sun. One doesn't know whether he wants to cry or puke when driving around town.


Hey, but the ballpark is really swell.
   30. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: September 28, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4248071)
Speaking of levels of hell , where does Barstow rank on this list?
   31. Poster Nutbag Posted: September 28, 2012 at 01:29 PM (#4248118)
Dante's California:

1: LA
2: San Bernadino
3: Vallejo
4: Visalia
5: Modesto
6: Barstow
7: Bakersfield
8: Fresno
9: Stockton
   32. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 01:35 PM (#4248128)
You can't pigeonhole LA like that. Nobody thinks they're in the Inferno when they're hanging out in Bel-Air or Dodger Stadium (although the Dodger Stadium Parking lot is at least an 8). Also LA is generally 20 degrees cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter than its outlying suburbs in the Valley, IE, etc.

I would put San Bernardino (and some other inland empire cities) lower on the list. Bakersfield is nicer than San Berdoo.
   33. Poster Nutbag Posted: September 28, 2012 at 01:42 PM (#4248138)
Seems fair...but there is NO disputing that the Central Valley is the core.....I probably have Vallejo to high on the list as well....still getting my coffee in
   34. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:03 PM (#4248164)
Of course, the problem described in 27 doesn't arise absent the problem described in 22.
   35. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4248168)
Stockton is, ever has been, and ever will be, a ########. I have family in the Central Valley, which is home to some of the direst places on the west coast -- Visalia, Fresno and Bakersfield are no gems, either, in addition to the other places named above -- but Stockton is the bottom of a very deep barrel. Dangerous, gray, glum, and hot as the surface of the sun. One doesn't know whether he wants to cry or puke when driving around town. Most of my relatives have packed up and moved on, after a hundred years of living there: my grandfather bailed back in the 50s, his brother's kids have all moved to LA or San Jose.

This wasn't in the brochure when I enrolled at UOP!
   36. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:08 PM (#4248173)
The problem here is that public unions are one step more intimate politically than private unions and corporations. Private unions and corporations can back candidates who can then put legislation into effect that could then potentially benefit them. Public unions get government representatives voted in and then NEGOTIATE DIRECTLY WITH THEM. It's like the right hand doing a deal with the left. It's a complete conflict of interest. There are middle school teachers in LAUSD making $80-120k whose students have not yet learned to read. That's insane.
   37. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4248174)
35: See also, e.g., University of Southern California brochure, Yale brochure, UPenn brochure, etc.
   38. Swedish Chef Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4248178)
Seems from this thread that Stockton would be an excellent setting if one wanted to do a somewhat realistic "Escape from New York" remake.
   39. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:15 PM (#4248179)
It's also kind of insane to blame middle school teachers for the failings of elementary school education. OTOH, I agree that public unions should be kept out of politics. OTOOH, there pretty much are no public unions in my state, and we still have all sorts of problems with public services.
   40. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4248182)
35: See also, e.g., University of Southern California brochure, Yale brochure, UPenn brochure, etc.

I was just joking. I'm a NorCal kid and I knew what Stockton was like when I went up there. UOP is actually in the nicest part of Stockton, though I realize that's a relative distinction.

The best things about Stockton are Pavement and Fat City, of course. (Fat City, the book, not the movie, though the movie is fine. The book, however, is one of the best American novels of the 20th century. My favorite writer on one of my favorite books.
   41. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:24 PM (#4248191)
I was just joking. I'm a NorCal kid and I knew what Stockton was like when I went up there. UOP is actually in the nicest part of Stockton, though I realize that's a relative distinction.


From a quick Google map search, Stockton appears to be about 40-50 mi. inland. How do you get away with calling yourself the Univ. of the Pacific, if you're 40+ miles from the ocean? It's like having Boston College located in Springfield.
   42. Willie Mayspedes Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4248192)
saying the city’s police isn’t doing enough to keep citizens safe.


Hell just the other day his teammate got hit in the head with a projectile and had to have brain surgery!
   43. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:28 PM (#4248195)
40-50 mi. inland


Stockton is a port town, correct? Maybe the river connecting to the bay connecting to the Pacific grandfathers you in.
   44. Swedish Chef Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4248198)
How do you get away with calling yourself the Univ. of the Pacific, if you're 40+ miles from the ocean? It's like having Boston College located in Springfield.

It's closer to the beaches than Miami University is.
   45. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:32 PM (#4248200)
It's also kind of insane to blame middle school teachers for the failings of elementary school education.


That's a good point. I jumbled my entire argument up into one sentence. I also don't know how to improve the system so my criticism probably doesn't help.

   46. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:32 PM (#4248201)
Stockton is a port town, correct? Maybe the river connecting to the bay connecting to the Pacific grandfathers you in.

Correct. Also, in the grand scheme of a continent 3000 miles wide, it's close enough, I think.
   47. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:34 PM (#4248204)
Correct. Also, in the grand scheme of a continent 3000 miles wide, it's close enough, I think.


I think Lake Michigan State is in Omaha.
   48. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4248209)
Manhattan College is in the Bronx.
   49. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:40 PM (#4248214)
The problem here is that public unions are one step more intimate politically than private unions and corporations. Private unions and corporations can back candidates who can then put legislation into effect that could then potentially benefit them. Public unions get government representatives voted in and then NEGOTIATE DIRECTLY WITH THEM. It's like the right hand doing a deal with the left. It's a complete conflict of interest.
So you're saying that corporations with government contracts shouldn't be allowed to contribute to campaigns, either?
   50. Swedish Chef Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:47 PM (#4248226)
So you're saying that corporations with government contracts shouldn't be allowed to contribute to campaigns, either?

Sounds pretty reasonable.
   51. Tripon Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:52 PM (#4248233)
Wouldn't that also include companies that receive subsidies too then?
   52. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:58 PM (#4248235)
Dante's California:

1: LA
2: San Bernadino
3: Vallejo
4: Visalia
5: Modesto
6: Barstow
7: Bakersfield
8: Fresno
9: Stockton


This could be a fun game.

Dante's Wisconsin
1. Beloit
2. Racine (sans the Danish bakeries)
3. Menomonie County
4. Cudahy (not crime drive, just rep.,perception is everything)
5. 1/3 of Milwaukee
   53. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: September 28, 2012 at 02:58 PM (#4248236)
Wouldn't that also include companies that receive subsidies too then?

Or the 47% moochers in this country who shamelessly suck on the government teat?
   54. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: September 28, 2012 at 03:10 PM (#4248245)
You can't pigeonhole LA like that. Nobody thinks they're in the Inferno when they're hanging out in Bel-Air or Dodger Stadium (although the Dodger Stadium Parking lot is at least an 8). Also LA is generally 20 degrees cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter than its outlying suburbs in the Valley, IE, etc.


The 1st Circle of Hell is Limbo, for the unbaptized and virtuous pagans, good people who got unlucky in when/where they were born. It's not that bad a place, it's just that chatting with Virgil and Plato gets dull when you have to do it for all eternity.
   55. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: September 28, 2012 at 03:12 PM (#4248249)
EDIT: Nevermind.
   56. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: September 28, 2012 at 03:22 PM (#4248257)
Sigh...reminds me of Berkeley in the '60s. It just wasn't a good peace rally until someone started brandishing a baseball bat.
   57. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: September 28, 2012 at 03:28 PM (#4248264)
I would remove LA from the #1 spot in Dante's California and add Needles instead.
   58. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 03:41 PM (#4248271)
So you're saying that corporations with government contracts shouldn't be allowed to contribute to campaigns, either?


No, not really, although I recognize that's a problem as well.

The real problem here is that the dodgers spent all that money and nothing is happening!
   59. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4248272)
54: Good point about limbo. Keep LA there.

52: Never been to Milwaukee but I've always imagined it as an idyllic place for some reason.

57: aka Needless.
   60. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 28, 2012 at 03:43 PM (#4248275)
The 1st Circle of Hell is Limbo, for the unbaptized and virtuous pagans, good people who got unlucky in when/where they were born. It's not that bad a place, it's just that chatting with Virgil and Plato gets dull when you have to do it for all eternity.
True, and L.A. doesn't even qualify for that. If there's one thing Los Angels isn't, it's dull. Unless you're talking about the weather. High-70s, sunny and dry 350 days a year can be boring, I guess.
   61. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: September 28, 2012 at 03:49 PM (#4248279)
52: Never been to Milwaukee but I've always imagined it as an idyllic place for some reason.


I do love it as my hometown (live out of state now) but like all major metros has some very serious issues in portions of the city. I guess the 'Dante's list for every state ought to have a placeholder for the large metro areas.
   62. jack the seal clubber (on the sidelines of life) Posted: September 28, 2012 at 03:50 PM (#4248281)
It just wasn't a good peace rally until someone started brandishing a baseball bat.


We'll have peace in Stockton, or I'll bash someone's ####### brains in!
   63. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: September 28, 2012 at 04:14 PM (#4248296)
52: Never been to Milwaukee but I've always imagined it as an idyllic place for some reason.


Milwaukee is a really great city. It's neck-and-neck with Cincinnati as the most underrated big city in the country. (Milwaukee's better, but I think Cincinnati's rated lower by the masses.)

   64. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 04:15 PM (#4248298)
Connecticut:

1-6: New Haven
7-9: Bridgeport
   65. jack the seal clubber (on the sidelines of life) Posted: September 28, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4248314)
Virginia

1) Newport News
2) Hampton
3) Norfolk
4) Front Royal
5) Dumfries
   66. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 28, 2012 at 04:47 PM (#4248323)
It would seem that there are vast swaths of the Commonwealth that you have never visited, jack.
   67. PreservedFish Posted: September 28, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4248330)
I think that California has these other states licked.

Although there is that place in West Virginia or Pennsylvania that has the 20+ year old underground inferno.
   68. Joe Kehoskie Posted: September 28, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4248331)
From a quick Google map search, Stockton appears to be about 40-50 mi. inland. How do you get away with calling yourself the Univ. of the Pacific, if you're 40+ miles from the ocean? It's like having Boston College located in Springfield.

Or having the University of South Florida in Tampa.

That's a good point. I jumbled my entire argument up into one sentence. I also don't know how to improve the system so my criticism probably doesn't help.

No, your criticism was valid. If kids aren't learning, either because of their bad parents and/or bad teachers, then the teachers are little more than glorified babysitters (or prison guards, in some cases). And not many babysitters or prison guards make $80,000 to $120,000 per year.
   69. Danny Posted: September 28, 2012 at 04:59 PM (#4248334)
The problem here is that public unions are one step more intimate politically than private unions and corporations. Private unions and corporations can back candidates who can then put legislation into effect that could then potentially benefit them. Public unions get government representatives voted in and then NEGOTIATE DIRECTLY WITH THEM. It's like the right hand doing a deal with the left. It's a complete conflict of interest. There are middle school teachers in LAUSD making $80-120k whose students have not yet learned to read. That's insane.

Welcome to BTF, Pat Sajak.
   70. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: September 28, 2012 at 05:11 PM (#4248348)
(And as I've made clear in the "OT: Politics" threads, I'm not a fan of public-sector unions or their retirement/pension plans.)

So, what do you do, boo them?

Dante's MA:

1: Lawrence
2:Springfield
3:Chelsea
4:Parts of Boston
5:Parts of Cambridge
6:New Bedford
7:Fall River
8:Brockton
9:Fitchburg
10:Leominster

In no particular order, in case anyone is offended.

Oh, honorable mention: Worcester
   71. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 05:22 PM (#4248354)
So, what do you do, boo them?


I think the only natural thing to do is go to a public union meeting with a baseball bat.



   72. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 05:23 PM (#4248357)
And not many babysitters or prison guards make $80,000 to $120,000 per year.


Not according to this: http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060228/news_1n28guards.html

I can't speak for babysitters.
   73. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: September 28, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4248370)
More honorable mentions: Pittsfield. One of the Longmeadows (not sure if it's Longmeadow, or East Longmeadow). Parts of Somerville. Parts of Everett. Lynn. Chicopee. Holyoke. Parts of Attleboro. Parts of Taunton.
   74. Mayor Blomberg Posted: September 28, 2012 at 05:43 PM (#4248376)
Someone on a baseball discussion forum is wondering how UoP can be Pcific and 50 mi. inland when almost half the PCL is in the Central Time Zone?
   75. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 28, 2012 at 05:51 PM (#4248386)
Dante's California:

1: LA
2: San Bernadino
3: Vallejo
4: Visalia
5: Modesto
6: Barstow
7: Bakersfield
8: Fresno
9: Stockton


Where's Charming?
   76. Joe Kehoskie Posted: September 28, 2012 at 05:51 PM (#4248388)
Someone on a baseball discussion forum is wondering how UoP can be Pcific and 50 mi. inland when almost half the PCL is in the Central Time Zone?

And the International League isn't international. Those jokesters.
   77. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 28, 2012 at 05:52 PM (#4248389)
No, your criticism was valid.


No, his criticism was misplaced. Middle school teachers are supposed to teach middle school subjects to middle school students, and middle school students are supposed to know how to read already, so that they can learn middle school subjects. Deciding to cut middle school teachers' pay because we know that the students aren't prepared to learn what the teachers are being paid to teach doesn't solve anything.

I would be like taking all the physical barriers out of prisons and taking all weapons away from prison guards, and then telling the guards that they're no longer worth what we contracted to pay them, since there's no way in hell that they're going to keep the inmates from escaping.
   78. Bhaakon Posted: September 28, 2012 at 05:52 PM (#4248390)
Parts of Taunton.



I thought it smelled bad... on the outside.
   79. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 28, 2012 at 05:53 PM (#4248391)
The PCL used to be a league comprised of teams on the Pacific Coast, and the International League used to have at least one team in Canada.
   80. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 28, 2012 at 05:54 PM (#4248392)
No, his criticism was misplaced. Middle school teachers are supposed to teach middle school subjects to middle school students, and middle school students are supposed to know how to read already, so that they can learn middle school subjects.

Granted, but if the kids can't read and do basic math, aren't the Middle School teachers obliged to teach at least that to them?
   81. Joe Kehoskie Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:00 PM (#4248399)
Not according to this: http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060228/news_1n28guards.html

I can't speak for babysitters.

I'd rather be a 6th-grade teacher making $100,000 than a prison guard making $100,000.

***
No, his criticism was misplaced. Middle school teachers are supposed to teach middle school subjects to middle school students, and middle school students are supposed to know how to read already, so that they can learn middle school subjects. Deciding to cut middle school teachers' pay because we know that the students aren't prepared to learn what the teachers are being paid to teach doesn't solve anything.

Either the kids are being taught or they're not. If middle school teachers can't teach the kids arriving in middle schools, either the curriculum needs to be changed or the teachers should be reclassified as babysitters.

There's no evidence that kids get smarter if teachers are paid more. If these schools can get bad results while paying teachers $80,000 to $120,000 per year, then they can get bad results while paying teachers $40,000 per year.

I would be like taking all the physical barriers out of prisons and taking all weapons away from prison guards, and then telling the guards that they're no longer worth what we contracted to pay them, since there's no way in hell that they're going to keep the inmates from escaping.

No, it's not like that at all. Telling a 6th-grade English teacher that she now has to teach English at what used to be a 4th-grade level isn't remotely the same thing as asking prison guards to guard violent felons without walls or weapons.

Again, I'm not at all anti-teacher. I just believe compensation should be tied much more to productivity and results. It's undoubtedly not the teachers' fault that a lot of kids can't learn, but if that's the case, both the job description and compensation levels should be changed.
   82. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:01 PM (#4248400)
I think we can all trace Stockton's downfall to U of P's termination of their football program after 1995. Those beatings at Nebraska did them in.
Or having the University of South Florida in Tampa.


Of course Marquette University isn't in Marquette, MI, but Milwaukee.
   83. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:06 PM (#4248403)
There's no evidence that kids get smarter if teachers are paid more. If these schools can get bad results while paying teachers $80,000 to $120,000 per year, then they can get bad results while paying teachers $40,000 per year.

This. Real (inflation adjusted) education spending per student has more than doubled in the last 30 years, with basically no improvement in performance.
   84. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:06 PM (#4248404)
Although there is that place in West Virginia or Pennsylvania that has the 20+ year old underground inferno.

Centralia, Pennsylvania

I don't think it counts, though, because only ten people live there.
   85. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:09 PM (#4248406)
Of course Marquette University isn't in Marquette, MI, but Milwaukee.

...and don't get me started about Transylvania University.
   86. Bhaakon Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:10 PM (#4248407)
Granted, but if the kids can't read and do basic math, aren't the Middle School teachers obliged to teach at least that to them?


I could be different in LA, but middle school was the point of my California public education career at which the students were aggressively segregated into honors/CP/general/remedial classes. So from that POV, there should be no reason to worry about slowing down the advanced kids by catering to the laggards. It's also the point at which a small but not insignificant subset of my fellow students started counting the days until they were old enough to drop out, and became completely intractable. And that was in an upper middle class suburban district.

OTOH, "you were supposed to have learned that already, so we're not going to/hardly going to cover it" was a phrase often repeated by educators (some of them perhaps bad at their job, some of them perhaps desperate to teach the stuff on the standardized test).
   87. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:11 PM (#4248408)
No, his criticism was misplaced. Middle school teachers are supposed to teach middle school subjects to middle school students, and middle school students are supposed to know how to read already, so that they can learn middle school subjects. Deciding to cut middle school teachers' pay because we know that the students aren't prepared to learn what the teachers are being paid to teach doesn't solve anything.



If there's no one to teach middle school subjects, why have the teachers? Your argument would support getting rid of these teachers altogether. If the kids can't learn the subjects, they should just get babysat by cheaper labor.

EDIT: "If there's no one to whom to teach middle school subjects" I guess. Difficult sentence to write.
   88. Joe Kehoskie Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:11 PM (#4248409)
The PCL used to be a league comprised of teams on the Pacific Coast, and the International League used to have at least one team in Canada.

I know; I was just playing along. (In addition to the Canadian teams, the I.L. also had a team in Havana.)
   89. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:11 PM (#4248410)
Dante's Oregon:

1. Oregon City
2. Salem
3. Albany
4. Hillsboro
5. Gresham
6. Springfield
7. Hermiston
8. Medford
9. Madras
   90. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:13 PM (#4248412)
I wrote 87 before seeing 81.

Let's not forget many teachers only work 9 months out of the year.
   91. Bhaakon Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:18 PM (#4248415)
Let's not forget many teachers only work 9 months out of the year.


I was recently doing transcription for beer money, and this came up. A superintendent being interviewed for some federally funded pilot program that gives cash bonuses to teachers based on student performance said (I'm paraphrasing), "Two kinds of people become teachers: the ones who genuinely want to educate children, and the ones who want summers off."
   92. Danny Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:31 PM (#4248426)
Or having the University of South Florida in Tampa.

Or UC Santa Barbara in Goleta.
   93. Busted Flush Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:38 PM (#4248431)
public unions should be kept out of politics

This'll never happen.
   94. Joe Kehoskie Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:39 PM (#4248432)
Let's not forget many teachers only work 9 months out of the year.

Oh, no. He went there.
   95. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: September 28, 2012 at 06:47 PM (#4248436)
It's undoubtedly not the teachers' fault that a lot of kids can't learn, but if that's the case, both the job description and compensation levels should be changed.

Things I've learned now that I have a kid in public school (2nd grade in the highly rated Manhattan Beach School District).

1) Not so much teachers as supervisors or managers. Teachers assign huge amounts of homework and the process of doing the homework is where the teaching and learning takes place. At home. With no teachers in sight. Teachers check to make sure that the homework is complete, give a test, and let the chips fall where they may.

2) Adherence to inane, arbitrary rules trumps all. It is certainly way above learning on the list of priorities. And if, God forbid - I hesitate to even type this, a kid sneaks a Reece's Peanut Butter Cup on campus, all school business will come to a stop. A nut product on campus! Call the CDC! Stand up a PTA meeting STAT!

3) If you say that there are three months off in the summer, any teacher will immediately correct you that it's "only ten weeks". Without fail, they will correct you every time. Little Mason might get passed to the next grade with a reading disability but they are extremely vigilant on the ten weeks thing. And of course for the other 42 weeks, you regularly see teachers walking into class from their car at 8:04 for a 8:05 class and see them shopping with their kids at Target at 2:15 because school gets out at 2:05. So a work day is really more of a work 3/4ths day.

The takeaway is that teachers at high performing schools aren't any better, they are just as lazy and unmotivated as the rest of them. They get to look good simply because the parents in their district are overachievers and hire tutors and work the long hours at home with their kids to fill in the gaps. That's the bonus you are getting if you move into a good school district, not the teachers but you are surrounded by better parents and therefore better kids.
   96. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: September 28, 2012 at 07:04 PM (#4248449)
I've discovered a secret way to tell if a teacher is any good. You weigh them on the first day of school, then weigh them again on the last day of school. The good teachers will either gain or lose a significant chunk of weight during the year, because they're working a million hours a week and don't have the time or energy to make healthy meals for themselves and exercise and so forth. They get themselves back in order over the summer and then the process repeats itself in the fall. Once they reach a certain age their bodies adjust and this no longer works, but for the young ones it's foolproof. I'm only about 60% joking with this.
   97. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 07:04 PM (#4248450)
"Robert in Manhattan Beach Goes Ballistic at Manhattan Beach PTA Meeting"
   98. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: September 28, 2012 at 07:07 PM (#4248451)
One of the Longmeadows (not sure if it's Longmeadow, or East Longmeadow).

Longmeadow is nice; at least the portion on Route 5. East Longmeadow has that rotary from hell.

Speaking of hell, it is located right below Trona, California.
   99. frannyzoo Posted: September 28, 2012 at 07:12 PM (#4248456)
I teach 8th Grade. I gain, unfortunately, about 12-15 pounds over a school year. I try riding the bike to work, but the intensity makes it tough to do so. I try to lose it all back in the 11-week Summer (it's 11 in my neck of the woods, not just 10) through a bicycle tour. I'm not complaining, just responding to some of the comments above.

As for other comments regarding teachers above, I'll just leave 'em be.
   100. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: September 28, 2012 at 07:12 PM (#4248458)
Trona, CA. Nice reference. Isn't that where they have the Naval Weapons base where they blast the countryside with missiles all day?

The Red Mountain-Johannesburg-Inyokern stretch of the 395 in CA is pretty bad too.
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