Kevin Goldstein says Bryce Harper might have historically bad makeup:
“It’s impossible to find any talent evaluator who isn’t blown away by Harper’s ability on the field, but it’s equally difficult to find one who doesn’t genuinely dislike the kid. One scout called him among the worst amateur players he’s ever seen from a makeup standpoint, with top-of-the-scale arrogance, a disturbingly large sense of entitlement, and on-field behavior that includes taunting opponents. ‘He’s just a bad, bad guy,’ said one front-office official.”
It’s subscription only, but read the whole thing if you can. And a rebuttal by Keith Law, who was asked to address the general topic but not Goldstein’s piece specifically:
“I’ve seen a few pieces like that, one that called him a ‘terrible role model’ … for one thing, he’s 17 years old. For another, the coaching staff at CSN seems to have no problem with him, and his behavior on the field – where it matters – has been fine. What you’re really seeing is a bad combination of the kill-your-idols school of writing and plain old contrarianism – take down the best guy. You heard it last year with unfounded criticisms of Strasburg’s arm action. So, to answer your question, I think it’s wrong, and I think it’s irrelevant.”
Reader Comments and Retorts
Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
1. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates) Posted: April 23, 2010 at 11:35 AM (#3511786)(Because major personality issues could arguably be the harbinger of problems later down the line OUTSIDE the lines. AFAIK, nobody thought Josh Hamilton would have as rocky a road as he had and there have been quite a few other professional athletes with very cloudy pasts who continued with disjointed lifes while playing professional sports, both in North American and European sports).
There is a joke about Matt Bush in there somewhere.
Have you heard of Jason Heyward?
It's not shocking that a pampered athlete who's been touted as a virtual lock for the MLB HOF since he was in pull-ups might have an ego.
Didn't end well. He couldn't keep his head on.
At 17, there were no stories about those players outside of anyone covering their local high school team. Not too many are nationally known at that age. Griffey, A-Rod, Delmon Young, the Uptons.
You should follow the NHL (or I presume soccer). Some kids are tracked nationally by the time they hit 14 or 15. The two polar opposites are Eric Lindros and Wayne Gretzky. Lindros was the knucklehead, and Gretzky gave the most thoughtful interviews as a teenager that belied his age. Gretzky knew he was going to be one of the greatest, and yet, you wouldn't know it hearing him speak, then, or at any point in his career, to the very end.
The Twins were planning to have Pierzynski be their Opening Day catcher in 2000, but instead sent him to AAA for most of the year just to beat some humility into him. Apparently he was insufferable in Spring Training that year, and, since the Twins knew they would suck regardless, decided to teach him a lesson.
Not when they were amateurs, but I do remember the first time I heard of Albert, then Joey, Belle was when he missed a lot of a minor league season to deal with anger/alcohol issues. In college he was also known as a malcontent, didn't hustle all the time leading to a brief suspension, and once chased down a fan that was heckling him.
Yeah, that worked.
I blame his teammate Derek Bell.
I bet that was a hell of a clubhouse.
"How come all these white kids always get to play? I ain't playing hard for a bunch of layabout crackers. I'm gonna start booting plays!"
"Great idea Gary! Time for Operation Li'l Shutdown!"
Anyway, a team that's expected to hand over $20m+ is going to dig deeper and worry more than when considering a 19th round community college player who might be a head case.
And some of this no doubt is people nitpicking, trying to find faults with this kid. There are probably two dozen other high round draft candidates with similar issues, but we just gloss over them because they're not high profile.
It's funny how excuses are made up constantly for being a jerk-off because of age or b/c of athletic ability. Perhaps this how the Roethlisbergers of the world are formed.
It's interesting, though, to watch athletes at the end of their careers, when they realise that they aren't among the best at what they do any more, and nobody gives a crap about them. They learn humility really quickly then.
I think it's familiarity breeds contempt mixed with some negotiating. I would think the Nats would want to lower his price a bit, and other teams would want to try and scare the Nats out of taking him.
I have long advocated that youngsters between the ages of 12-25 be sent to special locations away from regular society except for reasons of national defense. They think everyone outside their sect is dumb, and they drive everyone else crazy so it's a win-win. That and horrible summer music singles will end.
People need to get on board the Harvey Train to the Land of Common Sense..............................
As the saying goes, they began to learn how to say hello when it's time to say goodbye....................
That works.
So, all smart posters line up to the left.
Um, Shooty, not so fast...............
You are not impressed by my makeup as it relates to charts?
I can mention your name because you aren't uber-sensitive and can take a joke versus most of the namby-pambies who roam this forum.
This is a good point. See "Jordan, Pat."
Ah! The best compliments are the ones in which everyone else is insulted. This is a good day for Shooty.
Keith Hernandez didn't play his senior year in high school because of a "dispute" with his coach. He's a nice mixture of the good and the bad.
Good.
This made me laugh.
And why haven't there been attitude statistics created?! It would certainly help with the assessment of clubhouse capabilities. Apparently his winnerosity and batting "tools" remain unknowable beyond some arcane 20 to 80 scale with vague ungrammatical statements of how he hits good.
Your pie charts are way to aggressive, what is the obsession with black and angry colors? Break out the pastels once in a while!
"You don't retire at your convenience. You don't die when you're ready. . . . There are no announcements. There are no invitations. You're just gone." -- Reggie Jackson
Interesting phrasing, since as you well know there is a very long-standing tradition of sending young males aged 12-25 to special locations away from regular society specifically for reasons of national defense.
THEN HE FOUND GOD!
An odd thing about Roethlisberger is that he was not even his high school's QB. He was a late developer. Yet I suspect that those who knew him well at 17 had by then seen his flaws in action.
ummm---actually not--a former grad student of mine went to HS with Rothlesbuffalo, and she said he was a fairly nice guy then; kind of quiet and bumbling
I knew in college a guy who was a teammate of Bonds in high school. They went to Serra High together and junior high school, too. He said Bonds was "the biggest assh*le I've ever met" and added that everyone on Serra's team hated his guts. Bonds, he said, once cussed out a nun after she "just asked Barry to stop talking in class." Bonds almost got tossed out of school for that, but his dad played the race card and Barry got to stay. Bob Fitzgerald, who is the TV voice of the Golden State Warriors, was also at Serra High with Bonds. He said about Bonds in high school that sometimes you got the nice Barry, but sometimes he was the meanest s.o.b. you would ever run into. He was the kind of guy who "who trip the retarded kid and thought it was funny."
I understand that Williams was a jerk, but I think he comes off better that Cramer et al here.
Makeup to me comes down basically to the intangibles of work ethic and mental toughness. The difference between Yadier Molina in 2010 and a generic no-hit catcher (Molina 2006) is makeup. The difference between Andruw Jones the HOFer from 2005 and Andruw Jones falling off a cliff is Jones getting lazy and fat, that’s makeup.
Now it’s a lot easier to say these things retrospectively than project forward how a guy’s mindset will affect his playing abilities, but there’s no question in my mind that two different players with identical physical talents can have very different careers due to the mental side.
As for Harper, he’s 17. Who cares if he’s a douche, the guy was the most media-attentioned 16 year old baseball player this side of Bob Feller and is de-stroying CC players 2 years older than him. At the very least you can’t dock him in the mental toughness category. 17 bombs, 142 ABs…..pay that man his money.
I think it's true, and hilarious!
I do tend to think it is unhealthy for people to get too much "you are sooooo great" love at an early age. Those folks tend to get "pretty girl syndrome." That is, they never develop a real personality. They just think the world owes them a favor all the time.
Much like the Rickey! and Olerud story, I don't care whether or not it's actually true. I'm still going to believe it.
For what it is worth, I thought the story was that he didn't start at QB until his senior year in HS because the high school coaches son was the starting QB in the 2 years prior to that; a classic case of "daddy ball".
Why NOT believe?
I guess he learned, because he sure managed to communicate his point to Lisa Olson.
You're confusing your neanderthals/female reporter combos God. Kong sent the rat to the Sacramento Bee's Susan Fornoff. Olson was tantalized by the exposed genitalia and propositions of Zeke Mowatt.
SNY shows old "Mets Yearbook" videos and the 1975 version has about 5 minutes of Kingman in a park working with kids. He's totally normal and well-adjusted and well-behaved, and if he's not genuinely at ease and enjoying himself he's the best faker in the world. Obviously he had problems with adults.
I agree that on the whole, intangibles are overrated, especially in baseball - but at some point, the level to which a guy's personality is really good (eg. Jeter / Tulowitzki / Peyton Manning) or really bad (eg. Ryan Leaf) becomes so significant that it materially impacts how good the player is. I don't have enough information about Harper to make a judgment about that, but it's definitely really important. To be honest, I wouldn't be completely surprised if the Nationals didn't pick him 1st - to me, it's not as cut-and-dry a decision as Strasburg for example.
I don't know whether Bradley is mentally ill or not, but the domestic violence allegations against him lead me to believe that he very likely is not a good guy.
The difference between Bradley vs. Bonds and A.J. seems to be that Bonds and A.J. are in control of their personalities, and don't let it get in the way of their on-field performance or careers. Bradley is not always in control, and it has demonstrably hurt his performance and career.
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
<< Back to main