Reading Ian O’Connor brings out the Miles O’Reefer in me (‘cough-cough’...been a while).
Why? Because an extended A-Rod absence would swing open a door of delicious opportunity, that’s why.
The Yankees could go back to being the Yankees. They could go back to being the team that won four championships in five years with reliable pitching and a harmonious band of position players that didn’t need a slugger whose favorite teammates are Me, Myself and I.
“It was all about the team for us,” Tino Martinez said. “There were no real stars. You had Bernie [Williams] and [Derek] Jeter, but not superstars. We just figured out ways to get a lead and win games. “Position by position, this year’s team has much more physical talent than we did. It’s a way better team than our championship teams. But we knew how to come together, and that’s the trick.”
A trick the 2009 Yankees should be able to turn with Cody Ransom or some other potential Scott Brosius-to-be at third.
...But facts are facts: The Yankees haven’t reached the World Series in Rodriguez’s five seasons, and they reached six in the eight seasons before he arrived.
Coincidence, or guilty as charged?
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1. Craig Calcaterra Posted: March 06, 2009 at 02:48 PM (#3094304)Coincidence? Or guilty as charged?
No. Next question.
They should just release A-Rod.
That's dumb. They should trade him for Melvin Mora.
No way. Mora's got 300 kids. He doesn't have time to focus on baseball.
They should trade him for Scott Rolen.
How many "real" superstars did the opposing 1996 Braves have, 3 or 4? How many superstars on the '98 Padres, 2 or 3? Who would the 2000 Mets' second-biggest "superstar" have been?
Which will lead to the Yankees opening a dusty bakery...
The Yankees' schedule has them playing Baltimore and Kansas City the first week of the season. Let's say they go 5-1 in those games. How many more of these articles will we see then?
I suspect any team whose lineup feature 4 legit HOFers -- plus another Hall of Very Good player -- and whose rotation boasts another 2 HOFers (perhaps less deserving) -- has more than just a "few superstars".
Yeah, it's a small sample, but do you really expect the purveyors of the type of half-brained pablum contained in this article to even understand that small sample argument, let alone use it? Of course not. And yet, no mention of the fact that when, in fact, A-Rod has been hurt, the Yanks have not won.
I would be willing to bet a very large quantity of money that if the stats had been reversed and the Yankees in fact had an awesome record when A-Rod was hurt this fact would be the centerpiece of this article, sample size be damned. Small samples: useful when they support the argument I want to make!
(Edited slightly for clarity.)
to the point where columnists are saying that the team would win more with cody freaking ransom than it would with a-rod
didn't even hear THAT about barry lamar
Happens on the Lake Woebegone townball team all the time.
Not sure about that ... I seem to recall some columnists arguing a few years back that Sabean should dump Bonds and his Barcalounger and hand LF to some scrappy overachiever on the theory that this would improve team chemistry and turn the Giants into winners. I wouldn't be surprised if sportswriters said the same sort of stuff about Ted Williams.
They did, they absolutely did. The Colonel especially.
/Great bio of Ted that's probably reviewed elsewhere on this site.
"Access Denied (content_filter_denied)
Your request was denied because of its content categorization: "Arts/Entertainment;Humor/Jokes""
Apparently the filter doesn't consider Dilbert funny because I can still get that.
Well, 2 is a number. Joe Dugan and Mark Keonig were the only regulars that weren't at least well above average. That's it. Their 2 main catchers hit 117 and 79 OPS+. Their backup infielders hit 80 and 116. The 4th and 5th OF hit 59 and 133. And none of the latter 4 had over 200 AB. They got 85 AB of 66 OPS+ from their 3rd catcher.
The 1927 Yankees had 6 regulars above average, the 1998 Yankees, 7, and I'm not sure if an 84 OPS+ at SS wasn't at least average in 1927. Both had outstanding benches with a small number of outright weakness (Luis Sojo 147 AB, 37 OPS+. Cedrick Durst 129 AB, 59 OPS+). They really weren't all that different other than Ruth and Gehrig.
Cnt Player OPS+ PA Year Age
+----+-----------------+----+---+----+---+
1 Joe Sewell 108 652 1927 28
2 Joe Boley 95 415 1927 30
3 Buddy Myer 92 601 1927 23
4 Jackie Tavener 90 474 1927 29
5 Bill Hunnefield 85 406 1927 28
6 Mark Koenig 84 568 1927 22
7 Bobby Reeves 60 420 1927 23
8 Wally Gerber 49 498 1927 35
below the median
probably about at the mean with Gerber dragging that down...
Cnt Player OPS+ PA
+----+-----------------+----+---+----+---+
1 Bernie Williams 160 578
2 Darryl Strawberry 132 345
3 Paul O'Neill 130 672
4 Derek Jeter 127 694
5 Tino Martinez 124 608
6 Scott Brosius 121 603
7 Jorge Posada 115 409
8 Tim Raines 107 382
9 Chuck Knoblauch 102 706
10 Chad Curtis 90 545
That's a nice lineup.
Now if only someone could explain to me why Curtis got so much PT ahead of Raines (and Strawberry...)
Ruth and Gehrig are beyond deserving for Cooperstown, but Lazzeri, Combs, Hoyt and Pennock are at best borderline selections (I would argue that they are all below borderline).
This is always my first thought too. Of course, the response is always "selfless, gamer, clutch, little things, leader, intangibles, blah, blah, blah..."
People like the narrative that there were no superstars on the 1998 Yankees. Thus, it is so.
It's a long story involving Jesus, a truckload of H&H;bagels and an out of work fashion model.
I'd put it behind Chass's Backnegate article, at least if blog posts are eligible...
If we do vote on this, we'll need to split the articles into separate A-Rod and non-A-Rod categories. The amount of stupid which has been spewed about A-Rod this year would block out all other worthy contenders.
As for Jeter and Williams...Jeter was very good in 1998, and certainly one of the best SSs in baseball, but he wasn't ARod (then or now). Williams had a great year in CF, but he also missed a lot of time.
Well, we sure don't want to have too much access to that. We might become interesting or something.
If you look at that '98 team, it had it's share of free agents, but the star player that year was homegrown -- Williams -- and it's leader was Jeter. Everyone else fit in and played a part amongst the everyday players.
Pitching is a different story -- you can't say shopping outside didn't make a big difference, with Cone, Wells and Hernandez your top pitchers that season.
So the question is -- should you bring in an superstar who will be the highest-paid player on your team when you already have a core group who can compete for a championship?
It worked with Reggie Jackson, but the signing of Giambi and trade for Rodriguez haven't bought what they were expected to bring.
Signing Teixiera and Sabathia were much better moves, IMO.
The same as it is for a small market team. Get strong up the middle and find some lumber on the corners while backstopping it with a good pitching staff. The difference between the WS teams and the "only playoff" teams has been that the pitching staff really dropped off. They've gone from being consistenly one of the best teams in the AL at run prevention to middle of the pack. Also, anecdotally they've gotten away from the "shut down" starters, the hard throwers, Clemens, Cone, even a young Pettitte and gone for more pitch to contact guys.
Also, the bullpen has been a weakness. They no longer have the great set up men (Mo in '96, Stanton/Nelson/Mendoza '98-03). It seems like they've had a fair number of games lost in the 6th-8th inning that wouldn't have been lost during that stretch.
Lastly, I think they simply did a poor job filling out the rough edges. Gone are the days of Raines, Fielder, Strawberry, even Spencer or Curtis, the quality role players. Their bottom of the roster guys; Cairo, Clark, Betemit, Phillips, Womack, etc...) were just not very good. A team spending this much money is almost guaranteed to be a little older and is going to have a need for solid backups and they haven't had them.
Really? On a team full of veterans, 3rd year player Derek Jeter was the "leader"? I'd really like to see some sort of evidence for this. Hell, I'd like to see some evidence that Jeter is the leader of the Yankees now. That captain's C is a joke...
The players that compromise the bullpen haven't been a weakness, though they mostly haven't been as good as the late '90s guys. The real problem was Torre's usage of the bullpen.
No. Their leader was O'Neill.
Gotta be careful making any comments complimentary of Jeter, esp. inaccurate ones.
I'm a Yankees fan and a Jeter Fan. I just have never seen any evidence that he is now or has ever been a "leader".
And if they don't go 5-1, it will be because they are too distracted by all the A-Rod nonsense. Either way, he loses.
sigh....
and I thought the young ones were gonna be an improvement.
Literally the only "statheads" I know in my personal life (aside from the internet) are about 1/2 the guys in my roto league. Almost all fans I know still evaluate a player thusly:
Player value = (avg/HR/RBI +/- intangibles).
Intangibles being whatever the guy on tv tells me, of course.
Torre and various veterans have repeatedly said that the Yanks became Jeter's team pretty quickly. Based on what I've read and heard in interviews, Jeter was definitely a team leader by 1998.
I just have never seen any evidence that he is now or has ever been a "leader".
At some point, when everyone who plays with the man over a 12 year career says he is, shouldn't you just accept it? I don't know how you determine who a leader is on the baseball field by watching them on television.
As for Jeter and Williams...Jeter was very good in 1998, and certainly one of the best SSs in baseball, but he wasn't ARod (then or now).
Per Rally's WAR, Jeter was 7.4 that year, A-rod was at 8.1. They had the same value the year before (4.7 for A-rod, 4.6 for Jeter). A-rod was worse in 99. At that point, Jeter very much was as good, or nearly as good as A-rod. It wasn't until 2000 that A-rod once again became the player he had been his rookie year.
Is that (avg/HR) / RBI, or avg / (HR/RBI)?
well if everyone who PLAYED with him said it, yes I'd accept it.
I'm not keen on taking the mediot's word for it.
I don't have the book in front of me, but I think his point was that the distribution of the win shares was very unsual for a team that good.
I think that's right. It was that nearly every team with an insanely great record has at least a superstar or two having an insanely great year, but not the '98 Yankees.
Even Gary Sheffield, during his anti-Yankee, Jeter's not black rant called Jeter a great leader. I don't know who has disputed it and everyone I have seen talk about it has said as much. I am unaware of someone disagreeing. Is there someone?
I'm not keen on taking the mediot's word for it.
Nor am I.
Jeter finished third in MVP voting.
Torre and many players have publicly praised Derek Jeter as a leader. It's not just a bunch of sportswriters overhyping him.
If you're saying that you can't trust anything you read in the press, why even participate in this blog?
Gotta be careful making any comments complimentary of Jeter, esp. inaccurate ones.
I'm a Yankees fan and a Jeter Fan. I just have never seen any evidence that he is now or has ever been a "leader".
- i do NOT get what the word "leader" means
just what is it that this person does?
And look at all their recent championships, obviously Derek is too wrapped up in pumping his fist to care about winning. Luckily for Derek, he has no children, or else they would be taken away for this failure.
just what is it that this person does?
Somebody who is able to turn a diverse group of individuals into a team, whether in baseball or in business. Who takes responsibility for failure as well as success. Who promotes the best performance out of everyone that he leads.
Yeah, it's largely subjective and intangible, but the biggest difference between a good boss and a bad boss is that intangible leadership thingee.
Vision. Action. Responsibility.
I've not been a part of a sports team since junior high, but the leader is the guy you look towards as an example. A boss who's a good leader makes you want to do your best not out of fear, but out of respect.
Doesn't mean you'll always succeed, but it helps tremendously.
just what is it that this person does?
um, lead?
Isn't Win Shares practically guaranteed to call every player on a 114-48 team above average?
No.
I like B.A.D. better
Balls, Attitude, Direction
Not saying that at all
like most people I filter information based upon what my experience tells me.
For better or worse if the media gives me information that fits with my worldview I will more readily accept that information than information that does not.
WRT Jeter, I'm not saying he isn't a leader, my subjective impression from years of living in NYC, watching Jeter play, give interviews, trying to read between the lines of the fawning coverage the NYC mediots give him... the way other players talk about him- even the ones who call him a leader...
and I have a really hard time as seeing him being a leader in anything other than the goes to work, goes about his business and leads by example sense.
That's exactly what I can't see in Jeter- maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's there- I don't see it- and I'm not going to take the word of NYC baseball columnists (who are far from the worst MSM baseball analysts out there)- especially since it's patent;y clear that they have lost all pretense of objectivity in recent years.
Similarly, John Halama was...well, John Halama. Just a bit below average. But toss in a FANTASTIC third of a season from Joel Pineiro and the fifth starter slot turned in a good year. And the bullpen was lights out across the board. There was a grand total of ONE guy on the team who turned in an ERA+ below 80 and that was Dennis Stark in a couple spot starts and 15 innings. If you've got all above average starting and can toss in 350 innings of WAY above average work from the bullpen, you'll end up with a great season.
Of course, a lot of the pitching success was really about defense. Which brings me to my last thought on that year.
Ichiro won the MVP that year, of course. But playing right next to him was Mike Cameron. He was in a more important defensive position and had by all accounts of the the great defensive seasons for the ages. He also had a better OPS+. And while Cameron stole 20 less bases (56 to 34), he also got caught 10 less times. Ichiro got 100 more plate appearances in large part due to lineup placement. But I think it would be quite easy to make a case that Cameron was a more deserving MVP choice.
Of course, then there's Bret Boone and Giambi and Alomar.
One definition is that the best players on a team are going to be leaders regardless. Great players who also work really hard at their craft, always hustle, and try to play through pain are good leaders, and those that whine a lot, or don't hustle, or don't work hard at improving themselves are bad leaders. James talked about it in terms of Willie Wilson and George Brett, if I remember correctly. Whether Jeter is a good leader by this definition is up to you, but he is a pretty visible player on the team.
The other definition is how he acts in the clubhouse - to what extent does he help out other players on the team, give them advice, make them feel comfortable, lead clubhouse meetings, etc. DiMaggio, for example was a good leader by the first definition, but I don't think he did that much in the clubhouse.
Both, I think are reasonable definitions.
Coincidence, or guilty as charged?
From the Feb 27 lead-in on the Klapisch piece posted here:
Well, at least Giambi was, and he’s not ashamed to say it was Jeter who saved his Yankee career.
“I’ll thank Derek until the day I die,” Giambi was saying Thursday. “What he did for me, after what I’d been through, made it possible for me to keep playing in New York. The fans forgave me because of Derek. I’ll never forget that for the rest of my life.”
....But Jeter was undeterred. He likened Giambi to a brother who deserved a second chance.
“When you’re a team, everyone is one family,” Jeter said four years ago. “We’re going to be there to support [Giambi] because he’s one of us.”
***
If he had it, of course. I can't remember the source of the story, but it might have been Jeter himself. Who knows if any of this happened? But what one does look for in a leader is a kind of aplomb: I've been here before, success is still possible, no need to panic. We like to hear this from doctors and lawyers and roofers. If Jeter's the guy that provides it on the Yankees, that's valuable. It's not decisive. You don't always win just because your leader remains unflappable. For that matter, Jack Wilson probably plays the same kind of role on the Pirates and they never win. Leadership is probably pretty evenly distributed among the 30 MLB teams, and some win and some don't. But it is still important for someone to display its characteristics.
He didn't. Strawberry was almost exclusively a DH, playing just 16 games in LF. Raines also played more games as DH than in the field. Curtis started 38 games in CF and 7 in RF. So Strawberry and Raines weren't even options for about a third of Curtis' playing time. If Chili Davis hadn't missed most of the season, Raines and Strawberry certainly would have played more LF, and Curtis less.
interesting that the 07 rockies said the "leader" was tulowitski, who was a rook
interesting that i heard that the astros players considered adam everett (who can't hit) the leader of the 06/07 astros - in spite of the media always gushing about biggio
---
alex,
i like your definition but the problem is that the "boss" of the baseball team is the manager so there HAS to be a difference between the boss and the leader
i would also like to know HOW the leader turns a diverse group of individuals into a team
especially jeter
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