Trading for Hart would be more than OK, if it weren't while Hart's value was at its highest, nevermind the chance that he'd turn back into the impatient .260-hitting pumpkin he was prior to this year.

Corey is not a good defensive player. He can steal bases but gets hurt in the process which impacts his offense. One of the things folks attribute to the improvement this season is Hart trying to steal less frequently. It was causing all kinds of wear and tear.

Interestingly enough, Hart has two 20 plus game hitting streaks while in Milwaukee. Who would expect that from this type of hitter?

Anyway, his contract expires after 2011. The Brewers do not have a viable option in the minors. Trading him would create a gap that has not plan B.

Same with Prince. Sure, Milwaukee could trade him. And have who at first base?

DJ seems like a good fit for the Padres, although I really have no idea what they could give the Royals in return. Two shiny nickels would probably satisfy Dayton.

Same with Prince. Sure, Milwaukee could trade him. And have who at first base?

Lars Anderson, of course.

Asked whether the Sox will pick up the option on David Ortiz, Olney said: “I’ll bet you the Red Sox are on the fence. ... They were on the cusp of releasing him earlier this year.”

They were? When? What's the source?

turn back into the impatient .260-hitting pumpkin he was prior to this year

This isn't quite right. He's a .276 career hitter, and last year, his worst batting average year, he had his career high for walks.

Lots of columnists thought Ortiz was sucking so bad that the Sox would have to release him, Darren. Just have to.

Therfore, they almost did.

Try to keep up, dude.

Same with Prince. Sure, Milwaukee could trade him. And have who at first base?

Trading Fielder and Hart creates two holes. Gamel and Lawrie fill two holes. Don't get me started on McGehee, though.

They were? When? What's the source?

I heard this interview live on the radio. Not a shred of any truth in any of it. Nothing but pure speculation front to back.

I will say that Hart does fit the Sox a little better than DeJesus. If you're going to have 4 OFs under contract that are capable of starting in 2011 (assuming Ellsbury isnt traded), you might as well have someone right handed who can spell Drew against lefties.

can't we assume that they were at least nearing the "cusp" of releasing him earlier this year? sure the quote is pure speculation, but not necessarily outlandish or untrue.

"Not a shred of any truth in any of it. Nothing but pure speculation front to back."

Are you a Red Sox front office guy? Then you don't know if it's true.

can't we assume that they were at least nearing the "cusp" of releasing him earlier this year? sure the quote is pure speculation, but not necessarily outlandish or untrue.

I think it's certainly outlandish. Papi's projection never dipped under an 800 OPS. For the Red Sox to release him, without any notably in-house replacements, would have been shocking. This is without accounting for the emotional connection between Papi and the city of Boston.

bk:

Gamel looks awful at Triple A. He's regressed. Or he's still hurt

Trading Fielder and Hart creates two holes. Gamel and Lawrie fill two holes. Don't get me started on McGehee, though.

But not well. Harveys and I have gone over this before elsewhere, but I'll restate: I would be genuinely surprised if Gamel hits as much as McGehee does in the major leagues.

Are you a Red Sox front office guy? Then you don't know if it's true.

Although I do agree w/ MCoA that it was extremely unlikely that the Red Sox were seriously considering releasing Ortiz, I wasnt really commenting on what was going on in the FO. I was commenting that Olney was speculating when he said it, it was said in an offhand joking nature that doesnt come across in text. Nothing in that interview should be taken as information with anything resembling a source.

can't we assume that Olney was at least nearing the "cusp" of reporting a "fact"? sure the quote is pure speculation, but not necessarily outlandish or untrue.

FTFY

can't we assume that they were at least nearing the "cusp" of releasing him earlier this year? sure the quote is pure speculation, but not necessarily outlandish or untrue.

No, and the quote was both outlandish and untrue. Also:

Teixeira thru May 7th - .623 OPS
Ortiz thru May 7th - .676 OPS

For the year:
Teixeira - .837
Ortiz - .892

The guy starts slow, that's all. I don't particularly love that about him but it could be worse, he could be playing elsewhere.

LA:

Gamel has not been the same since the injury. He does not look at all like the hitter of once upon a time.

Gamel looks awful at Triple A. He's regressed. Or he's still hurt

Do you literally mean "looks", as in you've seen him? Because I think he's fine, based on his numbers. His strikeout rate is down substantially, and his line adjusted for luck and park on MLS is .335/.423/.500. Though MiLB BIP classification may be suspect, he has a 25% LD%.

I would be genuinely surprised if Gamel hits as much as McGehee does in the major leagues.

That's fine. FWIW: McGehee's updated ZiPS from FanGraphs: .270/.331/.432. Gamel last year: .242/.338/.422. Unless you think that line, compiled in his first season and with sporadic playing time, is Gamel's ceiling, I don't really find your position defensible.

I liked Gamel quite a bit when he was picked, but we have to admit a lot of our optimistic projections for him are based off of one tremendous hot streak in 2008. He certainly hit well in 2005-7, but the hitting wasn't at THAT high of a level. I'm not sure the offense seemed to imply much better than an average starter whether you live with the bad defense at third or lose the bat impact at corner OF/1B. In 2008, Mat started off the year on a ridiculous tear (I don't have the month-by-months, but he was roughly around .370/.435/.630 near his first 300 AB) and then slumped to finish the year at .325/.391/.531. Obviously that's a nice year for a 22 year old in AA, but I unfortunately don't know that that one hot streak was all that representative of Mat's real potential, and it really colored perceptions of him. I hope I'm wrong and he shows he really is an impact hitter.

Speaking of Hart and prospects, Hart was a good enough prospect coming up (90s in BA one year), but I don't recall anyone thinking except in their dreams that he would hit for power like he has this year. Nevertheless, to throw some credit to BP, a few years ago Hart's top model comp was Dave Winfield, and his upside long term career projections was one of the best of all young players. I don't remember the BP commentary playing it up though -- guess they probably didn't believe the model.

FWIW: McGehee's updated ZiPS from FanGraphs: .270/.331/.432. Gamel last year: .242/.338/.422. Unless you think that line, compiled in his first season and with sporadic playing time, is Gamel's ceiling, I don't really find your position defensible.

Gamel had 148 PAs last year. If you find that sample size convincingly large, then I really don't find your position defensible.

Gamel has not been the same since the injury. He does not look at all like the hitter of once upon a time.

Gamel is also about to turn 25 next week. Like Josh1 mentioned, nothing he's done since the first half of 2008 would make anyone think Gamel is a future star.

McGehee's updated ZiPS from FanGraphs: .270/.331/.432. Gamel last year: .242/.338/.422. Unless you think that line, compiled in his first season and with sporadic playing time, is Gamel's ceiling, I don't really find your position defensible.

Why you do find that indefensible, but you choose to use last year's projection, which ignores last year's stats? You must obviously know that Gamel's ZiPS projection coming into this year was a .694 OPS.

IIRC, and I may not RC, Gamel's lower projections are because he struck out almost a third of the time, both in the minors and in the majors.

Somewhat interesting, through yesterday's games, McGehee had basically the same number of PAs this year as he had last year. He has 3 fewer HRs and his BA is about 30 points lower, otherwise it's remarkably similar. About the same number of walks, about the same number of doubles.

we have to admit a lot of our optimistic projections for him are based off of one tremendous hot streak in 2008.

Gamel was hitting .315/.405/.606 in April-May before being called up last year. I'm not sure how you can so easily distinguish, at the age of 22, between a half-season-long "hot streak" and actual growth. Now, if you want to talk about why Gamel hit poorly after being demoted last year, I think that's a valid point, but I think it says more about his personality than his bat. Still, the personality issue is just that, an issue. I've already explained why I think Gamel's 2010 numbers are better than they appear on the surface.

Gamel had 148 PAs last year. If you find that sample size convincingly large, then I really don't find your position defensible.

So you're saying Gamel was actually over his head posting that mediocre line last year. Gotcha. I think he's a significantly better hitter than that. Not the second coming or anything, but he could be a .350/.475 guy. Nothing special at first base, but decent enough for awhile. I think it may seem like I'm coming on stronger than I am about Gamel because I was comparing him directly to Casey McGehee, in whom I have little faith. I don't think Gamel has to hit particularly a lot to outhit McGehee.

Why you do find that indefensible, but you choose to use last year's projection, which ignores last year's stats? You must obviously know that Gamel's ZiPS projection coming into this year was a .694 OPS.

IIRC, and I may not RC, Gamel's lower projections are because he struck out almost a third of the time, both in the minors and in the majors.

You RC. Again, though, Gamel's strikeouts are down significantly this year; he's only had 200 PA, but I think Pizza Cutter demonstrated that (at least in MLB) strikeout rate stabilizes in that amount of PA, so I think Gamel may still be maturing as a hitter. I didn't ever use last year's projection for either player--the line I quoted for Gamel was his actual 2009 MLB performace--but you're right that I should have mentioned Gamel's very low 2010 ZiPS. I guess it will just have to remain that I'm a Mat Gamel optimist, though a pessimist when it comes to the odds that the Brewers will ever give him an extended chance.

Speaking of Hart and prospects, Hart was a good enough prospect coming up (90s in BA one year), but I don't recall anyone thinking except in their dreams that he would hit for power like he has this year.

I think Hart was the kind of guy that if you dreamed on him he could hit 30+ homers, you just weren't sure how likely he was to do that. He was a big, lanky, toolsy athlete who was kind of raw at the plate.

Gotta love the Brewers prospect hijack on a Red Sox thread. Is 'Mat' short for anything or is that his name? I love this kind of thread.

I did Mat recently. And again, he looked dreadful.

What's not being discussed about Casey is that he is a bad third baseman. He's Carney Lansford in that all he does is lunge to his left. He's a disaster to his right. And he fumbles bunts like a bear grabbimg a fish.

The Brewers need to s#cker the Twins or White Sox into taking Casey for a couple of B arms. If Gamel doesn't work it's a chance for Lawrie. If Gamel works then the Crew has more options not fewer.

Prince may be gone via trade this offseason and is definitely gone after 2011. Weeks may leave after 2011. Milwaukee needs to get the plan together. Casey is not part of any real future. He's pure stopgap.

I did Mat recently. And again, he looked dreadful.

Jeez, Harvey. Scraping the bottom of the barrel already? It's not even winter yet.

Mattbert:

I did SEE Gamel play/bat recently.

Not the second coming or anything, but he could be a .350/.475 guy.

That is reasonable I guess. At one point an .825 OPS seemed well below my mean projection for a "good" prime Mat season (I was then hoping for ~.900 OPS), and now it seems optimistic but still quite possible. For my scouting report beyond the numbers, Harveys has seen Mat look terrible recently, so I'm not going to hold my breath.

I doubt McGehee will do much better than a .750-.775 OPS going forward, so if Mat isn't a total mess they might as well play him. Of course even if McGehee is a bad 3B (TZ says it too), Mat is probably worse. If Mat moves to right field (if he can even play that position) or 1B to replace Hart or Fielder, the Brewers would be lucky if Mat turns out to be more than filler.

Gamel had 148 PAs last year. If you find that sample size convincingly large, then I really don't find your position defensible.

So you're saying Gamel was actually over his head posting that mediocre line last year. Gotcha.

No, you don't gotcha. You're arguing that his 148 PAs indicate he was ready for the big leagues, and I'm saying that you can't look at the 148 PAs and conclude anything at all. I mean, despite McGehee having a 119 OPS+ in nearly 800 major league PAs, to you he's someone "in whom I have little faith," but the 148 PAs convinces you Gamel is the real thing?

I can understanding wanting to bring Gamel up to see what he can do, but the rush to dump a cheap, useful bat like McGehee when Gamel is at LEAST as big a question mark as McGehee, if not more so. Plus, Gamel seems to be an absolute butcher at 3rd. I'm not seeing the awesomeness.

i am also a little surprised about how fans of teams mcgehee plays on always want to dump him

agree that he is not a good fielder - but can't he play at 1B, ESPECIALLY if you trade da Prince?

as for gamel and the numbers
well, there IS something in watching a player. i can tell you that there is something seriously wrong with berkman, even if i can't tell you exactly what

agree that he is not a good fielder - but can't he play at 1B

Yes, he could. But his minor league career OPS was lower than .750, and his updated ZiPS was listed earlier at around .760

Not exactly exciting. If some contender this season was desperate enough for a 3B and was willing to give up a decent SP prospect, the Brewers should jump all over that and see if Gamel can make it as a 3B.