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Wednesday, July 26, 2017

Olney: Trade Sonny Gray to Yankees, as time is right for big markets to get their ace

When the Yankees made their big trade last week for Tommy Kahnle, David Robertson and Todd Frazier, the rationale was to acquire pitchers who can help them beyond 2017. This is true for Gray, as well. He would help their chances of making the playoffs this year and of winning in the postseason, as Gray is known as a big-stage performer after his strong October showing against the Tigers as a rookie. And he would also help the Yankees’ chances in 2018 and 2019, before he finally reaches free agency.

And there’s no doubt about this: The Yankees need starting pitchers for 2018. Luis Severino will be back, but Michael Pineda was lost to an elbow injury (and would’ve been gone as a free agent, anyway). CC Sabathia’s contract is about to expire, and Masahiro Tanaka could opt out of his deal (and is a major health risk if he stays). Gray would slot in next year and the year after that as the No. 2 or No. 3.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 26, 2017 at 02:28 PM | 27 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: athletics, buster olney, cubs, justin verlander, rangers, sonny gray, tigers, trade rumors, yankees, yu darvish

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   1. ReggieThomasLives Posted: July 26, 2017 at 03:01 PM (#5500191)
The Yankees should get Stanton too because they are a big market team and small market teams don't deserve their stars.
   2. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: July 26, 2017 at 03:07 PM (#5500198)
1 - Seriously. This is an absolutely terrible article, 3 trades all of which are "big team should get star" without any discussion of the return for the "lesser" team. For all we mock Dave Cameron for his occasional off the wall trade ideas I would rather read that sort of thing than this piece of crap. This is lazy writing at its best.
   3. Batman Posted: July 26, 2017 at 03:19 PM (#5500211)
Friends say Verlander wants to win now and get back to the World Series,
What a scoop! Friends also say he's attracted to swimsuit models.
   4. rconn23 Posted: July 26, 2017 at 03:22 PM (#5500215)
I agree it's not the best laid out article, but I don't disagree with Olney's arguments for those teams to acquire those pitchers.

Apparently Darvish really likes the Rangers, so they could trade him for a good haul and resign him after the season.

Gray is not going to resign with the A's so trade him now while he has a couple years of control left and get more in return. The Yankees need a controllable young pitcher more than most teams because Pineda will be gone, C.C. is a free agent and Tanaka and opt out and is a health risk.

   5. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: July 26, 2017 at 03:35 PM (#5500233)
agree it's not the best laid out article, but I don't disagree with Olney's arguments for those teams to acquire those pitchers.


Yeah but that's not exactly newsworthy. I mean the Red Sox could use Josh Donaldson but an article "the Red Sox should acquire Josh Donaldson" is kind of pointless if you don't get into the nitty gritty. What contending team WOULDN'T be interested in those pitchers?
   6. cmd600 Posted: July 26, 2017 at 03:40 PM (#5500238)
You all seem to have way too high an opinion of Olney in the first place. This is some of his better work.
   7. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 26, 2017 at 03:56 PM (#5500244)
Yes, because -- as was written and codified by Abner Doubleday, Alexander Cartwright and Doc Adams -- every team must roll over and give the Yankees whatever they need, because the Yankees.

And thank them for the privilege...
   8. rconn23 Posted: July 26, 2017 at 04:14 PM (#5500249)
Or you could choose to deal with them because they have the best prospect package to offer, but that wouldn't fit the tiresome narrative.
   9. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 26, 2017 at 04:17 PM (#5500250)
The Yankees should get Stanton too because they are a big market team and small market teams don't deserve their stars.

It's not like Olney is arguing for MLB to adopt some version of eminent domain that allows large market teams to just seize players from the also-rans. It's already clear that the players mentioned are on the trading block - the premise of Olney's article is that makes sense for the Dodgers, Cub & Yankees to go for it this year, and obtain the players in question. The exact parameters of those trades isn't the focus of his article.

I suppose one can dislike this type of article, but the premise is that the also-rans have placed the players on the market, these contenders would benefit from acquiring them, and the the unspoken assumption is the price will be in line with similar recent trades.
   10. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 26, 2017 at 04:19 PM (#5500256)
The Yankees should get a pony too.

(wait for it...)
   11. rconn23 Posted: July 26, 2017 at 04:25 PM (#5500260)
"What contending team WOULDN'T be interested in those pitchers?"

Well, the Red Sox don't need them.
   12. rconn23 Posted: July 26, 2017 at 04:27 PM (#5500262)
Thank God the Yankees are the only team that buy free agents or trade prospects for players, because the game would be ruined if other teams were allowed to do so. We should all be thankful there are those scrappy "little engines that could" teams like the Red Sox, Mets and Cubs that do it the right way. #Murica
   13. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 26, 2017 at 04:29 PM (#5500264)
It's not like Olney is arguing for MLB to adopt some version of eminent domain that allows large market teams to just seize players from the also-rans.


Indeed, baseball's economic model works along quite the opposite intent. As if the league's confiscatory Bushovism model weren't punitive enough, and as if the targeted desire to artificially suppress player salaries via arbitrary "luxury tax" weren't overt enough, the newly-imposed "qualifying offer" system makes it quite clear that the league would very much prefer all popular and successful teams lose their players and be punished for signing new ones as often as possible.
   14. Nasty Nate Posted: July 26, 2017 at 04:31 PM (#5500267)
An article from the contenders' point of view is fine, but what a terribly matched headline - it is directed at the sellers.
   15. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: July 26, 2017 at 04:39 PM (#5500270)
I suppose one can dislike this type of article, but the premise is that the also-rans have placed the players on the market, these contenders would benefit from acquiring them, and the the unspoken assumption is the price will be in line with similar recent trades.


I have no problem with the idea that these teams are likely good matches for the teams/players in question but without addressing the return it doesn't really serve a purpose.
   16. bfan Posted: July 26, 2017 at 06:17 PM (#5500326)
As if the league's confiscatory Bushovism model weren't punitive enough, and as if the targeted desire to artificially suppress player salaries via arbitrary "luxury tax" weren't overt enough, the newly-imposed "qualifying offer" system makes it quite clear that the league would very much prefer all popular and successful teams lose their players and be punished for signing new ones as often as possible.


Well, it is a "league", which suggests at least by its very name that it is a collection of organizations mutually invested in one another's health and/or survival. Now I know that the salary cap has been absolutely devastating to the financial success of the NBA and the NFL franchises...
   17. Walt Davis Posted: July 26, 2017 at 06:24 PM (#5500328)
One reason you have to discuss the return is that the first question you should ask in reading this is "why shouldn't the Cubs get Darvish or Gray instead of Verlander?" Any defense of that position includes "the Cubs don't have the prospects to land the other two but might be able to land Verlander for little more than taking on his salary."

Meanwhile the notion that Sonny Gray is a "big-stage performer" because he had one excellent (and one not good) start in the playoffs 4 years ago is entertaining.
   18. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: July 26, 2017 at 07:34 PM (#5500366)
Sonny Gray sucks by the way.
   19. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: July 26, 2017 at 09:28 PM (#5500405)
Sonny Gray does not suck, outside of 2016.
   20. Walt Davis Posted: July 26, 2017 at 10:48 PM (#5500460)
Sonny Gray does not suck, outside of 2016.

I see he's been on a roll. His ERA was 4.84 on June 20. His last 6 starts are 39 IP and 6 ER for an ERA of 1.37. However, 5 UER in that span although obviously 11 RA in 39 IP is still plenty good. Anyway, his ERA is down to 3.43 but his RA9 is a full run higher at 4.45. That's still in "OK" rather than "suck" territory but it's less inspiring.
   21. Cargo Cultist Posted: July 26, 2017 at 11:00 PM (#5500467)
I The Yankees should get Stanton too because they are a big market team and small market teams don't deserve their stars.


And Trout. And Harper.
   22. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2017 at 09:34 AM (#5500575)
Well, it is a "league", which suggests at least by its very name that it is a collection of organizations mutually invested in one another's health and/or survival.


Oh nobody is suggesting the "league" doesn't have the right to impose a variety of ill-conceived edicts on its members, from disallowing the Negro to the Reserve Clause to funneling hundreds of millions of dollars to The Commissioner's daughter while the Commissioner himself takes secret under-the-table loans from league members - all defensible in one way or another. These are all bad ideas, but well within the legal leeway granted to the league itself. I don't see any reason to ignore bad ideas once codified simply by virtue of "the league" and its authority to do so.
   23. Rally Posted: July 27, 2017 at 10:00 AM (#5500589)
I The Yankees should get Stanton too because they are a big market team and small market teams don't deserve their stars.


The Yankees found it cheaper to clone Stanton than to take on his contract. I'd say it's worked out pretty well for them. I hope they don't turn around and clone Trout.
   24. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 27, 2017 at 10:12 AM (#5500600)
I hate when Rob Manfred disallows the Negro.

The Yanks have long suffered from the MLB system where young players are good and make little money while old players are expensive and bad. As the team that can afford the most bad old players it has been a struggle to contend practically since the end of the Tino Martinez era. But this year they've figured out how to win again.
   25. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2017 at 10:19 AM (#5500610)
I hate when Rob Manfred disallows the Negro.


I think he's mainly focused on trying to pay foreigners as little as possible through a complex series of gimmicks and wheedles designed to artificially suppress their market.

The Yanks have long suffered from the MLB system where young players are good and make little money while old players are expensive and bad. As the team that can afford the most bad old players it has been a struggle to contend practically since the end of the Tino Martinez era.


Overpaying bad old players seems good for the players. Why would anyone want to restrict a team's ability to do that? "Save me from myself?"
   26. PreservedFish Posted: July 27, 2017 at 10:23 AM (#5500612)
The Yanks have long suffered from the MLB system where young players are good and make little money while old players are expensive and bad. As the team that can afford the most bad old players it has been a struggle to contend practically since the end of the Tino Martinez era.


Interesting perspective.
   27. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 27, 2017 at 10:30 AM (#5500615)
I hate when Rob Manfred disallows the Negro.

In fairness, at present he's only considering disallowing the Negro.

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