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Thursday, July 03, 2014

OMNICHATTER 7-3-2014

The “Day Before July 4th” Omnichatter

Gamingboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 07:36 AM | 65 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: omnichatter

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   1. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 03:53 PM (#4742820)
Matheny said that he wanted to see a player drop the bunt on the shift once in a while..... Matt Adams just tied it and fouled it off, would have been nice, since I despise the shift when there is a man on base, it's just playing with fire if the batter can bunt at all.
   2. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 03:55 PM (#4742823)
Peralta with a two run shot, in which the Giant outfielder had absolutely no clue where the ball was (second ball so far that the left fielder has lost a ball...it's the top of the first inning)

   3. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 04:29 PM (#4742833)
Carpenter should play against the Giants more often...Another hit for him, a double to leadoff the third inning. Matt is 27 for 51 against the Giants in his career, I don't care about small sample size, that is pretty impressive with that many at bats.
   4. boteman Posted: July 03, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4742839)
How bout that Bumgarner? Helping his own cause.
   5. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 04:49 PM (#4742847)
How bout that Bumgarner? Helping his own cause.


pfftt :P....

he's struggling on the mound, against a major league offense he is probably down 6-1 right now...but he did the proper job with the bat....

Wow...that was a horrible throw by the Giants first baseman.

(McCarver is now arguing that it's best to go into second base standing up.... I get the argument, but not really agreeing with it)
   6. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 04:54 PM (#4742849)
Jon Jay does what he does of course and drives in a run to get back the run that they lost in the previous inning... 3-1 Cardinals(Giants defense helped of course...as this Cardinals team can't deliver it without a helping hand)

Carlos Martinez with a hit through the drawn in infield to drive in two more runs...5-1 Cardinals.

Anyway, the Jon Jay haters can go suck on a lemon.
   7. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 05:00 PM (#4742851)
I have to say, I mostly like McCarver so far this year, him and McLaughlin have a great rapport, and McLaughlin loses his smugness with McCarver in the booth to not be such a pompous a--. McCarver brings in a lot of good stories, a tad too many for my tastes, but at least they are mostly baseball related and rarely Yankee related.
   8. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 05:09 PM (#4742855)
I'm kinda tired of the Cardinals broadcast promoting Neshek for the all star game. It's arguable he has been the best reliever in the National league this year, but it's going to be pretty bad to see the Cardinals having Molina/Wainwright/Carpenter/Peralta/Adams on the all star team as it is, while only having a record of 5 games above .500. Adding Neshek might be overkill.
   9. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 05:13 PM (#4742858)
It's the top of the 5th inning and feels like this game should be in the 7th or later.... both pitchers are in Molasses.
   10. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 05:17 PM (#4742862)
Sandoval with a fantastic play to get a dp off of Taveras bat.
   11. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 05:32 PM (#4742869)
I'm a fan of the replay concept, and fully think it will eventually be good, but right now, it's somewhat of a failure. The first fix is to remove it from the New York offices and put it at the stadium. Even with the failures so far this season, I've moved from being adamantly against a challenge system, to leaning towards some version of a challenge system, although I'm not sold on the current system/concept.
   12. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 06:00 PM (#4742878)
Excellent play by Freeman on a swinging bunt, in which Adams made a pretty good play...Freeman bare hands the swinging bunt on the third base line(literally) and whips around and throws to first, Adams had to catch the ball on the foul base side of first. It's a play, that a more mature pitcher would have let go foul.


Giants with a man on first and a single to right.....the runner probably should have gone to third, but Taveras arm is an unknown right now.
   13. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 06:17 PM (#4742887)
Giants with a horrible play with a one bouncer to the pitcher on a double play opportunity...Cardinals up 7-2.

McCarver mentioning a point, that I somewhat agree with(without evidence to back it up) pitchers throwing balls to the base, are the highest percentage error play in baseball. (I think technically the steal attempt might be higher percentage wise, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if the pitcher error plays were the highest percentage errors)
   14. Willie Mayspedester Posted: July 03, 2014 at 06:30 PM (#4742894)
Cardsfanboy's own post/other person's post ratio is similar to Doolittle's K/BB ratio. Nice work!
   15. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 06:35 PM (#4742896)
Cardsfanboy's own post/other person's post ratio is similar to Doolittle's K/BB ration. Nice work!


Cardinals have the only day game....sitting here talking to myself....fortunately I'm a schizo so it's not unusual.

Philly and Miami just started....don't think there are going to be many fans coming in here from that game. (I think someone earlier this season pointed out that omnichatter got screwed because of the burst.net fiasco at the beginning of the season, hardly any posters here...and on my other board, there are only three people talking the Cardinals game also.)
   16. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 03, 2014 at 06:38 PM (#4742898)
Philly and Miami just started....don't think there are going to be many fans coming in here from that game.

Yeah, as a Phillies fan it's a struggle just to have baseball discussions, let alone discuss Phillies games this year.

Aaron Altherr is starting for the Phils because Demonic Brown is on paternity leave. I've seen him play at Reading and he did not look MLB-ready. Hey, he got on base via fielder's choice!
   17. Snowboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 06:43 PM (#4742900)
The first fix is to remove it from the New York offices and put it at the stadium.


I guess I need a rundown on what the replay failures have been, before I can judge whether this might fix them? Right now, that seems like a very expensive and inefficient use of space, money, and people.
   18. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 06:49 PM (#4742904)
Yeah, as a Phillies fan it's a struggle just to have baseball discussions, let alone discuss Phillies games this year.


But I love Philly fans...They are fun to "poke" and are very passionate about their team(even if they are often times a little too negative) For everyone that talks about BFIB in regards to Cardinals, I think that they could put "Most passionate fans in sports" in regards to Philly fans(not just baseball, but all of their teams).

Philly is probably, at worst, the second most passionate sports base in the U.S. and I'm not really sure that they are behind Boston.(the only other contender for this title)
   19. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 03, 2014 at 06:49 PM (#4742906)
You may recognize Aaron Altherr from the Reverse Reggie Cleveland All-Stars, along with Kirk Snyder, Troy O'Leary and Steve Jeltz.

He's good defensively at least. What they call "rangy".
   20. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 06:50 PM (#4742908)
I guess I need a rundown on what the replay failures have been, before I can judge whether this might fix them? Right now, that seems like a very expensive and inefficient use of space, money, and people.


My problem is the speed aspect, moving it from the New York offices to the stadium adds a level of awareness and speed that I feel will fix some of the speed issues. I fully think that the replay official should be a fifth umpire on the crew.

Again, I fully and whole heartedly support replay. I think it's ridiculous that there is a debate on whether it should be an option, but I also accept that it needs to be as unobtrusive as possible(and have argued for a perfect system, which is never going to happen)
   21. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 06:56 PM (#4742911)
Cardinals will finish this 10 game road trip with a .500 record on it....and yet people still act like it's a massive failure. Cardinal fans have unrealistic expectations. (while playing the first and second place teams in the NL West...and the Rockies and facing three former Cy Young winners. )
   22. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 03, 2014 at 06:59 PM (#4742914)
Thank you CFB.

Philly is probably, at worst, the second most passionate sports base in the U.S. and I'm not really sure that they are behind Boston.(the only other contender for this title)

And right now 80% of that passion is going towards the Eagles. With the Sixers following the Houston Astros "Check back on us in 3 years" plan, and the Phillies inadvertently doing the same thing behind a front office that has been universally recognized as by far the stupidest in baseball for almost half a decade now.
   23. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 03, 2014 at 07:03 PM (#4742916)
Now batting for the Marlins is Ed Lucas, who was a 31-year-old "rookie" last year after being transported here mid-career from 1950 when athletes had names like "Ed Lucas".
   24. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 07:04 PM (#4742917)
And right now 80% of that passion is going towards the Eagles. With the Sixers following the Houston Astros "Check back on us in 3 years" plan, and the Phillies inadvertently doing the same thing behind a front office that has been universally recognized as by far the stupidest in baseball for almost half a decade now.


That is part of your passion though. Even when you have crappy teams, your fans talk about it. You may hate, but you care and it's obvious. St Louis is always going to love the Cardinals, but we only care about the Blues or Rams when they are winning. Mind you, we don't require championships to care, just give us a good team that has a 50/50 shot of winning, and we'll be positive for you.

Now that the Eagles have gotten rid of Vick, they are no longer an utter cesspool of deserved hatred, go have fun and fly Eagles. (the only former NFC East team I never hated)
   25. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 03, 2014 at 07:18 PM (#4742923)
JAMIE MOYER IS SO BORING

They are talking about how Grover Cleveland Alexander threw two complete-game wins on this date in 1917.
   26. Snowboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 07:21 PM (#4742927)
With today's loss to the Cards, the Giants finish this home stand 2-8; they are 25-23 at AT&T.
   27. Gamingboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 07:27 PM (#4742930)
If the Twins/Yankees series ends with a Twins win, the Yankees might as well pack up and go home in shame.
   28. Every Inge Counts Posted: July 03, 2014 at 07:34 PM (#4742936)
Bedard has already allowed 3 home runs in the 1st inning against the Tigers.
   29. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 03, 2014 at 07:35 PM (#4742937)
Erik Bedard does not have great stuff tonight.
   30. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 03, 2014 at 07:35 PM (#4742938)
At this rate if he gets out of the first I'll be surprised.
   31. Every Inge Counts Posted: July 03, 2014 at 07:42 PM (#4742943)
After a bad inning for Bedard, the Rays go 1-2-3 on 7 pitches to help him out..
   32. boteman Posted: July 03, 2014 at 07:56 PM (#4742950)
Aloha, Mr. Hand!
   33. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: July 03, 2014 at 07:59 PM (#4742954)
Maddon tweeted about this and then did it: he's going with the Tommy Tutone lineup tonight. Check out the positions of the Rays' batting order.
   34. cardsfanboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 08:05 PM (#4742957)
Maddon tweeted about this and then did it: he's going with the Tommy Tutone lineup tonight. Check out the positions of the Rays' batting order.


I had to work that out...867-5309.... LOL...pretty funny.
   35. boteman Posted: July 03, 2014 at 08:57 PM (#4742981)
Who's position 0?? [ nvm. Designated Hitter. Of course. American League. I guess when a couple NL pitchers got key hits the last couple days it's easy to forget about the D.H. ]

Meanwhile, the Marlins tied it up on Ed "Old Skool" Lucas' RBI double in the 8th. But then they ended the inning with a 5-2-5-4 double play. I'm only listening here at work so I'd be curious how that one played out exactly; Glen Geffner let it go at that even after noting that you don't see that one every day.
   36. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:05 PM (#4742986)
Apparently the Phillies went ahead while I was at the grocery store, but then Diekman came in and obviously the Marlins took the lead again once I got home.

The 5-2-5-4:
- Jeff Baker on third, having hit a triple (WTF)
- Saltalamacchia hits a weak grounder to third. Baker caught in a rundown while Saltalamacchia reaches first.
- Saltalamacchia decides he can advance from first to second during the rundown.
- Baker doesn't extend the rundown for very long, so as soon as he gets tagged out Asche throws to second and catches Saltalamacchia too.
   37. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:10 PM (#4742988)
They tie it up in the top of the ninth!

Utley hits a double-play ball to second with one out to end the inning. But Solano bobbles it, and Ben Revere scores! Thank you Ben Revere.
   38. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:15 PM (#4742990)
Jimmy Rollins and Jose Reyes are neck-and-neck for third most steals by an active player (441).

They are also tied with Phillies deadball legend Sherry Magee for 55th all-time.
   39. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:22 PM (#4742993)
Garrett Jones, Jeff Baker, Casey McGehee, Jeff Mathis, Reed Johnson. The Marlins are where generic white guys go to die once they hit 30. Ed Lucas too, assuming he spent his 20s playing in some parallel universe.
   40. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:24 PM (#4742995)
"Koyie Hill has done a very good job framing these last two pitches." Don't remember an announcer commending a catcher on that before.

Strike three swinging! Good game, let's go eat.
   41. Snowboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:28 PM (#4742996)
Ooh, I think the ump just blew a call in Oakland (tagging a baserunner) and it might cost the Jays a run...unless this is reviewable.
   42. Snowboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:35 PM (#4743001)
Odd situation...color guy Pat Tabler says he's never seen this situation: Jays had bases loaded, 1 out. Ball hit to 1B, OAK's Frieman tags runner, but ump signals safe no tag. Then throw home, Vogt has his foot on home...so that's no run scored, 2 out.

BUT...Frieman DID apply a tag. So NOW Jays are challenging the call....they want their own runner called out via tag, which takes out the force play at home, since OAK never tagged the runner coming home, just put his foot on the plate.
   43. esseff Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:36 PM (#4743002)
Was bound to happen. MLB just found a umpire error for which replay offers no good solution.
   44. Eric P. Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:38 PM (#4743003)
And the Jays get the call.

Can't really blame Melvin for playing it under protest now. The A's could have got a double play there if the catcher knew he had to apply the tag at home. The ump's call essentially kept him from doing it. Wonder exactly what the rulebook says.
   45. Snowboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:39 PM (#4743004)
OK the umps have reversed their on-field call: now calling tag out of Jays runner on basepaths, and counting a run.
OAK manager Bob Melvin comes out to talk to them again...yesterday John Gibbons came out after a call was overturned, and he got tossed. For some reason, Melvin is not tossed out here...and the umps are going back onto the headsets?
Is that a first time, umps going back onto the headsets?

Melvin is not tossed, no other calls are overturned, but umps have announced that OAK is playing the rest of the game "under protest"
1-0 Toronto, runners on the corners, 2 out, top 2nd.
   46. 'Spos Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:40 PM (#4743005)
my favourite part was the high fives in the dugout in between the review & the protest
   47. Ziggy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:42 PM (#4743006)
Oh that's going to be a nightmare. I assume the runner touched the plate? Man, blown calls are bad, but this is worse. Put me down in the anti-replay camp.
   48. Paul D(uda) Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:45 PM (#4743008)
Melvin's not tossed because he wasn't arguing, just letting the ump know that he's playing this game under protest.
   49. Snowboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:48 PM (#4743009)
I don't blame the A's either, Vogt had all day to apply a tag at the plate, but since the ump signaled "no tag" he thought the force was still in order. Turns out to be run scored, 2 out, runners on corners, instead of no run, 2 out, bases loaded.

Rulebook, how about scorebook? How do you score that? Fielders choice, 3-unassisted-tag, and just pretend the throw home never happened?

But I thought the rule was clear, you cannot go out and talk to the umps again after a call is reviewed. And why on the headsets a second time?
   50. Ziggy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:49 PM (#4743010)
What if replay had been around for Gallaraga's perfect game? Shock and disbelief, then a review, and THEN the catcher runs up to give Gallaraga a hug?
   51. esseff Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:52 PM (#4743012)
Just a wild-ass guess, but perhaps the return to the headset was to find out if the New York crew is ultimate-ultimate authority or if their call is protest-able.
   52. Ziggy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 09:52 PM (#4743013)
How would you score it if a fielder missed a tag after a put out? Imagine there's a runner on second, the defensive team gets a force at first and then the first baseman throws the ball to third to get the advancing runner, but the thirdbaseman misses the tag. How would you score that? Because this sounds like a very badly missed tag.
   53. esseff Posted: July 03, 2014 at 10:01 PM (#4743019)
The irony (no lectures, please) is that baseball has made such an effort to put safety into plays at the plate but this is going to require contact plays that may not be necessary.
   54. Snowboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 10:08 PM (#4743020)
Ziggy I'm no pro but I would score your scenario [52] as a putout of the batter, and then runner advancing on an E5 (if the situation breaks down as simply as you describe it; it sounds like a tag should have been made, but the 3B failed.)

And that leads to the sticky situation we have in this game: does Vogt deserve an E2 for failing to apply a tag? Or do we, as I said, just pretend the throw home never happened? Scoring was easier before challenges and reversals!

EDIT: As I said previously, I don't blame Vogt. But it doesn't seem right that Gray gets hung with an earned run? Then again, there are worse Joyces out there.
   55. boteman Posted: July 03, 2014 at 10:38 PM (#4743043)
What superhuman alien has inhabited the body of Steve Pearce???
   56. Snowboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 11:08 PM (#4743056)
Well the Jays and the A's have to be happy with their SP tonight?
After a crazy review play and some odd 6p start shadows to deal with, both Dickey and Gray have been really good, and they're hitting 100 pitches and probably out.
Oakland leads 2-1 thru 7.
   57. boteman Posted: July 03, 2014 at 11:19 PM (#4743061)
So the Orioles can win a ballgame without hitting a home run. Huh, go figure.

They're headed to Boston where Joe Angel kept doubting whether the weather would allow them to get the game in tomorrow afternoon. I'm still doubtful if they can get the Cubbies early game in against the Nationals if Hurricane Arthur slings a bunch of rain toward D.C. So there might be an unscheduled double header on Saturday.
   58. Snowboy Posted: July 03, 2014 at 11:25 PM (#4743066)
C'mon Gibbons...it's not that you are making *me* look bad (who am I?) but Dickey was done. 104 pitches...yes he struck out his last batter in the 7th on a nasty knuckler, and yes the A's have a history of not hitting him well...but are you not watching? Yes, Moss has the only real hit in the game, but can't you tell from the look on his face and they way he rolls his shoulder when he leaves the mound after 7 that he's done???

Well, I guess not...because Dickey comes back out, pitches the 8th, and gives up 2 runs. Now it's 4-1 A's, to the 9th and the Doolittle.
   59. Adam S Posted: July 04, 2014 at 12:02 AM (#4743083)
Perhaps MLB should change the replay rule to prevent teams protesting decisions that went in their favor.
   60. esseff Posted: July 04, 2014 at 12:10 AM (#4743084)
Or make plays for which there is no satisfactory redress unreviewable.

Or just give the New York crew a little more leeway in determining what would have happened without the umpire error. For instance, ruling that Vogt would have easily applied a tag and completed a double play if the wrong call had not been made.
   61. esseff Posted: July 04, 2014 at 12:25 AM (#4743086)
btw, even though the A's protest dies with their victory, MLB needs to come out and say something about this situation. Like whether it was handled correctly and it's just tough luck for the A's; or if the situation is going to be addressed in some way short of requiring teams to make all sorts of just-in-case plays.
   62. Random Transaction Generator Posted: July 04, 2014 at 01:13 AM (#4743095)
For instance, ruling that Vogt would have easily applied a tag and completed a double play if the wrong call had not been made.


If the tag was announced correctly, how do we know that Encarnacion would have kept going towards home plate? Maybe he stops and forces a run down, and who knows what happens then? I think the correct call is Kawasaki is out, the other base runners return to their original bag, and the batter is safe at first.
No run counts, but no extra outs are awarded, so things even out for both teams.
   63. Snowboy Posted: July 04, 2014 at 01:30 AM (#4743098)
Perhaps MLB should change the replay rule to prevent teams protesting decisions that went in their favor.


Well, that's a problem here tonight, because the original decision did not go in favor of the Jays.
The original call was that the 1B did not tag the runner. By failing to tag the runner in a bases loaded situation, the force-out was still in effect; when the 1B threw home, the catcher (who had clearly seen the ump waving "safe, no tag") merely stepped on the plate and did not look to tag the runner.

The Jays were, in-effect, challenging an out call on the bases which had been missed, wanting themselves to be called out at first instead of home. And they were correct, a call had been blown, and replay confirmed it.
   64. Snowboy Posted: July 04, 2014 at 01:33 AM (#4743099)
esseff in [53] hits on the irony that just as MLB goes all mamby-pamby in trying to prevent touching the opposition, tonight presents an occasion where Vogt should have turned and tagged Encarnacion, even though he was out by 2 strides and the force had been done in Vogt's mind, just in case. But your point, esseff [60] that common sense and experience should help make decisions...well, that's just so radical and old school that it might not work today, even if it makes me want to watch a ballgame with you and subscribe to your newsletter.
   65. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 04, 2014 at 01:49 AM (#4743105)
The umpires have the right to rule on anything not specifically covered by the rulebook (9.01c) so I think esseff might be onto something. This might have been a case where that was appropriate and they could have called Encarnacion out at home. That would have been very very very harsh though to record an out that was never recorded. RTG's suggestion of sending Encarnacion back seems like a pretty reasonable resolution.

And that leads to the sticky situation we have in this game: does Vogt deserve an E2 for failing to apply a tag? Or do we, as I said, just pretend the throw home never happened? Scoring was easier before challenges and reversals!


Not that it's a huge deal but in your scenario Freiman gets an assist on that play. When the fielder receiving a throw is charged with an error the fielder is still given the assist. I think 3U and nothing else probably is the right ruling for the rest of the play.

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