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Saturday, May 18, 2019

OMNICHATTER! for the weekend of May 18-19, 2019

Scoreboards for the Major Leagues and all minor leagues,
courtesy of Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee).

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 18, 2019 at 12:55 PM | 98 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: omnichatter

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   1. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 18, 2019 at 12:57 PM (#5843381)
HOW WILL THE ANGELS LOSE TODAY?!
   2. The Run Fairy Posted: May 18, 2019 at 01:27 PM (#5843388)
The Jays are starting Ryan Feierabend today vs the White Sox. It will be his first MLB appearance since July 27, 2014. He spent a couple seasons in Korea and now he's made it back by throwing a knuckleball 30-40% of the time.
   3. Howie Menckel Posted: May 18, 2019 at 01:42 PM (#5843391)

Tim Healey
‏Verified account @timbhealey
20m20 minutes ago

PETE ALONSO RANKS AMONG ROOKIES THIS YEAR

Homers: 14 (first)
RBI: 34 (first)
Slugging: .595 (first)
Walks: 17 (first)
Hits: 42 (tied for first)
Runs: 28 (second)
6 replies 13 retweets 87 likes
   4. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: May 18, 2019 at 04:36 PM (#5843413)
The Durham Bulls (Tampa, aaa) announced that Jake Cronenworth will be tonight’s starting pitcher.
He’s normally their starting shortstop (hitting .367/.460/.511!) and has never pitched as a pro. (Has been viewed as a possible 2-way guy before)
   5. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 18, 2019 at 04:42 PM (#5843414)
isn't there a rule change proposal to limit the number of pitchers on a 25 man roster? How are they going to handle 2 way players. And there is another rule proposal mandating a minimum run differential before a position player can come into pitch. How will they handle 2 way players?
   6. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: May 18, 2019 at 04:49 PM (#5843415)
Link [this was edited, my initial thought was incorrect]
Only pitchers and 2 way players may pitch unless the margin is 6 or more or it’s extra innings.

“A player qualifies for two-way status if he:

1) Pitches at least 20 Major League innings AND

2) Plays at least 20 Major League games as a position player or designated hitter, with at least three plate appearances in each game in either the current or previous MLB season.

Once a player has earned the two-way player designation, he maintains that status for the rest of that season and the following season. And while he has that status, his team no longer has to use one of its pitching roster spots on him.”

That provision fails Ohtani, who (hopefully) will be healed from his injury by then.

The Rays and Angels are the clear leaders in trying to develop these guys.
   7. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 18, 2019 at 04:52 PM (#5843418)
Yeah, I was specifically thinking of Ohtani. That second rule might prevent him from starting.
   8. phredbird Posted: May 18, 2019 at 04:56 PM (#5843419)

huh, cards and rangers are in a rain delay ... so i'm spared having to watch them or check the score for a while.

   9. The Run Fairy Posted: May 18, 2019 at 05:45 PM (#5843425)
Yeah, I was specifically thinking of Ohtani. That second rule might prevent him from starting.


No, it's really easy for him to be a starting pitcher next year. For his first 20 days or so on the roster, he's on the Angels roster as a pitcher (who just so happens to be his team's starting DH, which there's (AFAIK) no rule against). After 20 innings pitched, he's then magically a two-way player and he no longer counts as a pitcher on the roster.
   10. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: May 18, 2019 at 06:29 PM (#5843435)
That was my fault. My recollection / initial post was 10 games each way - which that was a logical response to.

My bad everybody.
   11. Walt Davis Posted: May 18, 2019 at 07:33 PM (#5843445)
So after another strong game, and against Scherzer, Joe decides today is a good day to sit Almora. All so we can get Bote's bat into the lineup.
   12. Howie Menckel Posted: May 18, 2019 at 07:42 PM (#5843448)
Pablo Lopez got pummeled by the Mets in his last start 5 days ago - 10 ER in 3 IP.

in today's rematch, McNeil leads off with a double and...... that was the only Mets hit in Lopez's 7-inning gem and win.
   13. bobm Posted: May 18, 2019 at 07:48 PM (#5843450)
How many more losses to the Marlins before Callaway is called away?
   14. cardsfanboy Posted: May 18, 2019 at 07:59 PM (#5843452)
Link [this was edited, my initial thought was incorrect]
Only pitchers and 2 way players may pitch unless the margin is 6 or more or it’s extra innings.

“A player qualifies for two-way status if he:

1) Pitches at least 20 Major League innings AND

2) Plays at least 20 Major League games as a position player or designated hitter, with at least three plate appearances in each game in either the current or previous MLB season.

Once a player has earned the two-way player designation, he maintains that status for the rest of that season and the following season. And while he has that status, his team no longer has to use one of its pitching roster spots on him.”

That provision fails Ohtani, who (hopefully) will be healed from his injury by then.

The Rays and Angels are the clear leaders in trying to develop these guys.



That is idiotic rule..

It's simple a player is a pitcher if he has more innings pitched than innings played as a position player... or if he has more pa than innings pitched... it's not really that tough... to go with this weird ass rule just seems like trying to over complicate a simple thing.

No one cares if a player is a "two way player" it's whether he's a pitcher or not.... and that is a pretty simple way to determine the status.
   15. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 18, 2019 at 08:00 PM (#5843453)
No, it's really easy for him to be a starting pitcher next year. For his first 20 days or so on the roster, he's on the Angels roster as a pitcher (who just so happens to be his team's starting DH, which there's (AFAIK) no rule against). After 20 innings pitched, he's then magically a two-way player and he no longer counts as a pitcher on the roster.


I was talking about the rule mandating a 5 run run differential before a position player can pitch. Ohtani will not pitch this year. What is the mechanism for him to be considered a pitcher next year for the purposes of that rule?
   16. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 18, 2019 at 08:05 PM (#5843454)
It's simple a player is a pitcher if he has more innings pitched than innings played as a position player... or if he has more pa than innings pitched... it's not really that tough... to go with this weird ass rule just seems like trying to over complicate a simple thing.


Again, how can Ohtani be allowed to start a game next year if the rule requiring a 5 run differential before a position player can pitch goes into effect? He's a position player until he logs more innings pitched than innings played, and if he goes back to his early 2018 usage pattern, he will never log more innings as a pitcher.
   17. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: May 18, 2019 at 08:16 PM (#5843456)
Gonna surmise that Lester does not have his good stuff tonight.
   18. cardsfanboy Posted: May 18, 2019 at 08:25 PM (#5843458)
Again, how can Ohtani be allowed to start a game next year if the rule requiring a 5 run differential before a position player can pitch goes into effect? He's a position player until he logs more innings pitched than innings played, and if he goes back to his early 2018 usage pattern, he will never log more innings as a pitcher.


seriously?


it's simple your qualifications as a pitcher is based upon your last season stats, you minor league stats etc... this isn't that tough, only a ####### idiot would not get this.
   19. cardsfanboy Posted: May 18, 2019 at 08:28 PM (#5843460)
anybody can pitch, his designation as a position player is what is up for debate... Gyorko can still pitch under these rules, it's not about that, it's about roster management and whether or not Ohtani is a pitcher or hitter by definition... for the most part he's a hitter.

nobody is trying to discourage dual position players, the goal is to discourage big bullpens.
   20. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 18, 2019 at 08:37 PM (#5843461)
it's simple your qualifications as a pitcher is based upon your last season stats,


That's the point. Ohtani will not pitch this year.
   21. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 18, 2019 at 08:41 PM (#5843462)
Gyorko can still pitch under these rules,


Next year, Gyorko will not be allowed to pitch unless his team is up or down by ay least 5 runs.
   22. phredbird Posted: May 18, 2019 at 08:57 PM (#5843466)

cardinals with a nice lead.

i know y'all all think i'm a fair weather fan, but i was watching the other night when TEX put up a 7 run inning, i promise. i was busy with a chore, but suffered through the whole mess. didn't have time to complain on chatter ...

   23. SoSH U at work Posted: May 18, 2019 at 08:59 PM (#5843468)
It's simple a player is a pitcher if he has more innings pitched than innings played as a position player... or if he has more pa than innings pitched... it's not really that tough... to go with this weird ass rule just seems like trying to over complicate a simple thing.


So you don't think teams should be encouraged to develop two-way players? Because any rule that requires more Innings Pitched>Innings Played to qualify as a pitcher (in a limited-roster world) would do just that.

I find it baffling that you think adjusting the minimum number of batters a reliever must face (a condition that has long existed) is an affront to the game, but mandating specific positions on the roster for the first time in history isn't.
   24. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 18, 2019 at 09:14 PM (#5843469)
What problem is the position-player rule supposed to solve?

On a happier note, it's nice to see Tyler Chatwood again.
   25. Jay Seaver Posted: May 18, 2019 at 09:25 PM (#5843470)
24 - Apparently there have been complaints that certain teams have been going to the position player pitching too often in potentially winnable games. Anecdotally, it does seem to be something that happens more often than it used to, but seemingly not enough to make a rule necessary.
   26. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 18, 2019 at 09:41 PM (#5843471)
24 - Apparently there have been complaints that certain teams have been going to the position player pitching too often in potentially winnable games.


And we discussed this several months ago, and looked at the data, and it turns out there were 0 games last year in which a position player came in to pitch that would have been prevented by the new rule.
   27. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: May 18, 2019 at 09:49 PM (#5843473)
So after beating up on also-rans to get their record above .500, the Red Sox are now playing a real team. After coughing up a lead late yesterday and losing, now trail the Astros by 7-3. Not having price or Eovaldi right now is not helping.
I've not watched much baseball live this year and have not seen the Red Sox reliever Weber pitch before. First of all, he looks like a high schooler, secondly I like that he just kind of tosses it up there without too much effort, either a 75mph curve or an 85mph "fastball" and just works with that.
   28. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 18, 2019 at 09:55 PM (#5843474)
No. 25 - Even if it's happening more than it used to, why would we care? Why do we need to stop it?
   29. cardsfanboy Posted: May 18, 2019 at 09:59 PM (#5843475)
So you don't think teams should be encouraged to develop two-way players? Because any rule that requires more Innings Pitched>Innings Played to qualify as a pitcher (in a limited-roster world) would do just that.

it's innings pitched vs plate appearances... I said it wrong in my previous comment.


Or more accurately batters faces vs plate appearances... that should be the true benchmark.
   30. cardsfanboy Posted: May 18, 2019 at 10:05 PM (#5843476)
for the record.. anyone on the roster can pitch, regardless of where they are classified... to not allow a bench player to pitch would be an idiotic rule, that even the NHL/NFL wouldn't take up... that is not even an option... if a person is on the roster, of course they can pitch or play any position, to say differently is moronicness that would never happen in even the MLBl.
   31. Brian C Posted: May 18, 2019 at 10:08 PM (#5843477)
Watching the Cubs with the sound off while listening to a new record that I can't pause, but it appears that Joe Maddon just successfully talked the umps into not allowing Sean Doolittle's pitching motion.
   32. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 18, 2019 at 10:09 PM (#5843478)
if a person is on the roster, of course they can pitch or play any position, to say differently is moronicness that would never happen in even the MLBl.


Not sure if you are being facetious here, but that is precisely what will happen next year, and my question is, what about octane? Based on what his usage will be this year, he will be a position player, and next year, position players will not be allowed to pitch unless there is a 5 run differential in the game.
   33. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 18, 2019 at 10:10 PM (#5843479)
Seems like the umpires told Maddon that his concern about a possible intermittent microscopic toe-tap was his problem, causing him to protest the game.
   34. Brian C Posted: May 18, 2019 at 10:13 PM (#5843480)
#33, ok thanks. It did look like the umps told Doolittle his original not-microscopic toe-tap was no good, but then Maddon came out a second time to argue the microscopic follow-up, and I couldn't tell what came of that.
   35. Kiko Sakata Posted: May 18, 2019 at 10:13 PM (#5843481)
Not sure if you are being facetious here, but that is precisely what will happen next year, and my question is, what about octane? Based on what his usage will be this year, he will be a position player, and next year, position players will not be allowed to pitch unless there is a 5 run differential in the game.


Would the rule distinguish between starting and relief pitching? Because at least last year, the Angels were using Ohtani as a starting pitcher. Even granting that I basically agree with Tom Naworcki in #28 - this is a solution in search of a problem - what possible issue could there be with using whoever the hell you want as your STARTING pitcher?
   36. Kiko Sakata Posted: May 18, 2019 at 10:15 PM (#5843483)
Seems like the umpires told Maddon that his concern about a possible intermittent microscopic toe-tap was his problem, causing him to protest the game.


On the one hand, this is Joe Maddon at his insufferable worst. On the other hand, this is Joe Maddon kind of at his best - implicitly sticking up for one of his struggling relievers, Carl Edwards Jr., who after spending spring training working on a new motion that apparently MLB said was okay, was told it was illegal in his second appearance of the regular season.
   37. Chip Posted: May 18, 2019 at 10:16 PM (#5843484)
WTF has Josh James done to earn the super giant strike zone?
   38. Jay Seaver Posted: May 18, 2019 at 10:27 PM (#5843490)
Even if it's happening more than it used to, why would we care? Why do we need to stop it?


I, personally, don't think it's necessary, but I could see it being treated as the most visible manifestation of the sense that teams are not trying or otherwise being competitive, especially in an era in which teams have such deep bullpens. It's a fun thing when it happens a couple times a year in really bad situations, but can start to rankle when it feels like teams are giving up, and apparently someone at MLB feels it's threatening to cross that line or already has. I get that - as a fan, why should I keep watching the game/following the team if they seem to have checked out - but you look at the elaborate rules being proposed to fight it, and it's a mess.
   39. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: May 18, 2019 at 10:59 PM (#5843495)
What problem is the position-player rule supposed to solve?

It goes with the roster-spots-allowed-for-pitchers rule, right? If you're only allowed a certain number of pitchers on the roster, someone could try to game the rules and sneak an extra pitcher in by giving him a few at bats and claiming he's a position player. (The Cubs could have done this with Travis Wood a few years back, for instance - he wasn't totally embarrassing as a hitter or, in at least one appearance, an outfielder.) If position players are only allowed to pitch in certain low-leverage circumstances anyway, the incentive to pull that sort of stunt is very limited.
   40. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 18, 2019 at 11:36 PM (#5843504)
Griffin Canning, 6 IP, 2 hits, 4 Ks. Yeah, it's the Royals, but that's pretty good for a kid who just turned 23.
   41. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 18, 2019 at 11:43 PM (#5843507)
And Ohtani homers! and everyone knew it off the bat. Still under .500, but some good things are happening for the Angels.
   42. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: May 18, 2019 at 11:49 PM (#5843508)
That AAA SS pitched an inning: pop out to the ss, walk (caught stealing), walk, struck out swinging

That knuckleballer pitched a 4 inning complete game, allowing four runs in the loss.
   43. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 18, 2019 at 11:53 PM (#5843509)
Would the rule distinguish between starting and relief pitching? Because at least last year, the Angels were using Ohtani as a starting pitcher.


The rule wasn't in place last year. It won't be until next year. And in the meantime, Ohtani will have spent an entire season as a DH.
   44. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: May 19, 2019 at 12:42 AM (#5843514)
Not sure if you are being facetious here, but that is precisely what will happen next year, and my question is, what about octane? Based on what his usage will be this year, he will be a position player, and next year, position players will not be allowed to pitch unless there is a 5 run differential in the game.
Doesn't it just mean that the Angels have to designate Ohtani as a pitcher in order to have him pitch? They can't call him a position player to get an "extra" pitcher on the roster?

I don't think the intent or the structure of the rule prevents someone from pitching that a team wants to call a pitcher.

EDIT: "Furthermore, the number of pitchers a club can carry on the active roster will be capped at a certain number, to be decided by the aforementioned joint committee. To adhere to that rule, clubs will have to designate each of their players as either a pitcher or a position player prior to each player’s first day on the active roster for a given season. That designation cannot change for the remainder of the season. Position players will not be allowed to pitch except in the following scenarios:" [etc.]

So I read that as he can't pitch, *only if they designate him as a position player*. And there's nothing that says he can't still play a position and hit because he's designated as a pitcher.
   45. Meatwad Posted: May 19, 2019 at 01:46 AM (#5843516)
Kiko and co. Just the other day the umps declaiered a seattle realivers delivery to be illeage due to a top tap. Ill have to go back and watch the video. But it wasnt just edwards this year who has had to change delivery.
   46. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 08:49 AM (#5843524)

Not sure if you are being facetious here, but that is precisely what will happen next year, and my question is, what about octane? Based on what his usage will be this year, he will be a position player, and next year, position players will not be allowed to pitch unless there is a 5 run differential in the game.


Sorry, you are right, just read the link, and it's as dumb as anyone could imagine something.

MLB needlessly over complicating something that has a simple way to implement it. Just like replay etc...

The rule should be simply "a person is categorized as a pitcher if they have pitched more innings than they have plate appearances..either in the minors, previous season or current season.... simple as that, and there is no reason to have a designation as a two way player..or have the position be locked in for the whole season etc... as that link points out, it happened 48 times last season.... this is not a problem that matters... let position players pitch, limit the number of pitcher spots on the roster and move forward... .this is not complicated at all.
   47. puck Posted: May 19, 2019 at 12:16 PM (#5843539)
Why does MLB think the rule needed? Is it supposed to be a pace of play rule? I thought there's also a rule about a pitcher having to face a minimum number of batters. Among other rules.
   48. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 01:29 PM (#5843546)
Why does MLB think the rule needed? Is it supposed to be a pace of play rule? I thought there's also a rule about a pitcher having to face a minimum number of batters. Among other rules.


probably because they are idiots... someone was walking around in an office one day and said "I can't believe that there was another game in which a position player pitched, that seems to be happening an awful lot lately."

and Rob Manfred heard that intern and decided something needed to be done, as that interns non-factually backed half ass opinion was much more important than real stuff like pace of play that he has thrown to the wayside and left as "something to be considered"...

In this era of Trumpism, where a leader reacts without thinking of why... Manfred, manned up and did something.... not something that has any basis in fact, logic or critical thinking, but just like a Trump decision, it was an action.... so we are now stuck with this monstrosity of a moronic rule change, that nobody on this planet ever wanted or asked for or needed, meanwhile we still have time clocks being ignored, and other pace of play issues that could make a difference being put on the back burner of "we'll consider it"....

   49. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 19, 2019 at 01:32 PM (#5843547)
Yankees went with Chad Green as THE OPENER, producing a scoreless 1st. He’s been scuffling this season, but this appears to be a bullpen day and he’ll likely be asked to go another inning (or 2).

EDIT: Green’s 2nd inning didn’t go nearly as well, with back-to-back solo HRs with 2 out, followed by HBP, and Green leaving the game.
   50. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 19, 2019 at 01:45 PM (#5843552)
probably because they are idiots... someone was walking around in an office one day and said "I can't believe that there was another game in which a position player pitched, that seems to be happening an awful lot lately."

and Rob Manfred heard that intern and decided something needed to be done, as that interns non-factually backed half ass opinion was much more important than real stuff like pace of play that he has thrown to the wayside and left as "something to be considered"...


And so they created a rule that, had it been in effect in 2018, would not have prevented a single instance of a position player pitching.

Doesn't it just mean that the Angels have to designate Ohtani as a pitcher in order to have him pitch? They can't call him a position player to get an "extra" pitcher on the roster?


And what happens if he hurts his pitching arm again, or becomes so ineffective they no longer want him to pitch, but he's still a valuable hitter? Can they undesignated him, or are they stuck with a non-pitcher using up one of the limited pitcher slots?
   51. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: May 19, 2019 at 02:19 PM (#5843556)
And what happens if he hurts his pitching arm again, or becomes so ineffective they no longer want him to pitch, but he's still a valuable hitter? Can they undesignated him, or are they stuck with a non-pitcher using up one of the limited pitcher slots?
Good point. The logical thing (in terms of consistency with what I assume is their intent) would be to allow someone to be "redesignated" as a position player (but not vice versa) once in season.
   52. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 19, 2019 at 02:21 PM (#5843557)
Well, there's a metaphor for the Yankees' season to date.....
   53. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: May 19, 2019 at 02:39 PM (#5843558)
Ugh, that Miley move should definitely be a balk.
   54. Howie Menckel Posted: May 19, 2019 at 03:16 PM (#5843560)
Mets Mickey Calloway's job rumored to be hanging in the balance this weekend.

so yesterday the Mets get 1-hit by the Marlins mostly by the same P - Pablo Lopez - who gave them 7 first-inning runs before retiring his first batter 5 days earlier.

today, the Mets did better - well, they got 2 hits, I mean, in a 3-0 loss. Sandy Alcantara hurls the shutout. Mets fans? they just hurl.

first time Mets did not achieve 3 hits in back-to-back games since 1967.
   55. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 03:18 PM (#5843561)
Paul Dejong is having a season... adds another double to his league leading total.
   56. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 03:22 PM (#5843563)
as a Cardinal fan, you keep expecting for DeJong to become human... and yet we are now in the third season of Dejong as a major league player, and the only thing you can say about him, is he's elite.
   57. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 19, 2019 at 03:39 PM (#5843566)
2 bases loaded BB in a 5 BB inning produce 2 runs, as a timely hit eludes Yankees. 7-5 Yankees, and bases still loaded.
   58. phredbird Posted: May 19, 2019 at 03:40 PM (#5843567)

geez ... the game's been on for almost 45 minutes, and we just ended the first inning.
   59. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 19, 2019 at 03:45 PM (#5843568)
Interesting replay in NY, Rays 1st baseman “armpitted” the throw to nip the runner who was called safe. Not clear that he had control, and replay upholds call. If he’d caught it cleanly, would his armpit be the same as “in the glove” for review”? How about imbedded in a roll of fat? 8-5, NYY.

EDIT: Bases-clearing double by Estrada makes it 11-5, NYY. I’m amazed that MLB managers can maintain their stoic demeanor when their team has an inning like the Rays are producing now.

EDIT II: Gardner 2B makes it 12-5.
   60. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 03:45 PM (#5843569)
mlb has an article on the most productive player so far this season at each position... the entire second base portion did not once mention Wong...

LaStella and his 1.5 war gets props.. not sure I think his 1.3 bWar is more productive than Wong's 1.5 bWar... but sure let's go with that.
   61. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 19, 2019 at 03:48 PM (#5843570)
Now that's ####### resilience, 2019 Yankees style. One replacement player fouls a ball off his nuts, and his replacement smashes a bases clearing double.
   62. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 19, 2019 at 03:50 PM (#5843571)
And Gardner helps by piling it on.
   63. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 19, 2019 at 03:52 PM (#5843572)
Down goes Frazier! He's really been in a funk lately.
   64. puck Posted: May 19, 2019 at 04:07 PM (#5843573)
Holy cow, what the hell was that for the "God Bless America" at Citizens Bank Park. Now they're American Idolizing that song, too. Look at me! Look at me!

Just stop bothering. Though at Coors Field they always have someone from a nearby military base band play it on the trumpet. It works.
   65. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 19, 2019 at 04:08 PM (#5843574)
LeMahieu HR makes it 13-5 in 7th. Rays had pitched quite well this season . . . until today’s game.
   66. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 04:16 PM (#5843577)
Holy cow, what the hell was that for the "God Bless America" at Citizens Bank Park. Now they're American Idolizing that song, too. Look at me! Look at me!


God bless america is a crime against nature, doing anything to that garbage song doesn't really hurt it.
   67. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 04:17 PM (#5843578)
Shildt gets ejected because the umps suck ass.. I mean those calls against Fowler was just utter garbage... this home plate ump is good enough to be an NHL referee.
   68. phredbird Posted: May 19, 2019 at 04:19 PM (#5843579)

those were some terrible strike calls on fowler.
   69. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 04:22 PM (#5843580)
those were some terrible strike calls on fowler.


seriously an understatement... I know this is a neutral site for baseball talk, but if you get a chance to look at those strike calls against Fowler in the fourth inning.... you will absolutely declare that they were bad calls... no matter who you root for... they were really that bad... I mean terrible... I mean they were horribly bad calls... Denkinger level of bad in regards to strike calls.
   70. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 04:30 PM (#5843581)
Some Cardinal fans wonder why I like Fowler so much, they keep arguing we just need to kick him to the side etc... but he is absolutely, clearly one of the best leaders in the locker room.. his positive attitude, his personality matters, add in his approach at the plate and he's a guy who will influence young players (and anyone who has read or seen interviews with the players for St Louis, knows this)

Fowler is not a great player, he's a solid veteran with benefits, and when he does what he does, he's a positive influence on the team...
   71. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 04:33 PM (#5843582)
crappy strike zone did help out Flaherty there... this ump seems to think that Eddie Gaedel's strike zone should be applied to 6 foot tall players.
   72. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 05:13 PM (#5843586)
this ump ####### sucks ass... I'll take it this time, but this ump is pretty much clear evidence we need robo umps.
   73. stanmvp48 Posted: May 19, 2019 at 05:15 PM (#5843587)
Danny Murphy 171 244 329
   74. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 19, 2019 at 05:29 PM (#5843590)
Ian Desmond, Bryan Shaw, Mike Dunn, Gerardo Parra... when was the last time the Rockies signed a free agent who wasn't a complete disaster? Wade Davis isn't horrible, until you remember he's getting $17 million a year.
   75. Walt Davis Posted: May 19, 2019 at 06:19 PM (#5843594)
Sorry, just wandered in, noticed the pither-position player rule discussion ... and am not clear why folks don't understand the rule's intent. But I just skimmed so I may have missed something, apologies.

They want to expand rosters to 26. But they also know that if they expand rosters to 26 that teams will just add a 14th pitcher. They don't want teams to add a 14th pitcher. So you say they can have only 13 which requires some rule about who counts as a pitcher and who doesn't. Team gets clever and designates some reliever as a "position player." Said "position player" is used as a regular reliever, say pitching the 6th inning of close games. League doesn't want this to happen, says therefore designated position players can only pitch in blowouts. So you can carry a 14th pitcher if you really, really want ... even a 15th ... you just won't be able to use them in close games.

The "position players only pitch in blowouts" rule is not intended to stop position players from pitching in close games, it's to prevent teams going with 14 pitchers anyway by burning a position player slot on a pitcher. CFB's rule, which seems fine, would simply make it (nearly) impossible to give the guy a position player slot, MLB's version allows them to do it but removes the incentive to do it. Neither rule deals with an Ohtani situation particularly well so MLB goes through some hoops.

Like obscenity, we all know a position player when we see one and all know a pitcher when we see one ... but it can be damened hard to define them in a rule that is not overly restrictive or creates umforeseen loopholes or will need to be re-written in 5 years because the Rays are doing crazy #### again.
   76. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 06:30 PM (#5843595)
and am not clear why folks don't understand the rule's intent. But I just skimmed so I may have missed something, apologies.


We get the rules intent, we just think it's silly.. the rule over complicates a simple issue.. I'm on board with defining positions and limiting pitchers vs non-pitchers....

The fact that they go out of their way to 1. create a dual position player and 2. that they declare straight up that a players position status cannot change once the season started... 3... and that a team can't use a position player to pitch at all except in extreme situations..


these rules are just stupid on the face of it, and add in that as pointed out, that even if these rules were in effect, it wouldn't have made one bit of a difference last season(I'm accepting a premise from another poster) it just seems like a rule created to simply exist to say we created a rule.



I'm on board with limiting the number of pitchers/position players... at the same time, the definition of pitcher should be fluid enough to allow things to change, and at no point in time should there be a rule that prevents anyone on the roster from playing any position that they can...
   77. phredbird Posted: May 19, 2019 at 06:32 PM (#5843596)

wow, i fell asleep in my chair, woke up just in time to see fowler conk that homer, justifying CFB's faith a little.

then bader hustle gets us a run.

cfb, did you notice that fowler was the first guy to greet bader when he came back to the dugout?

i'm afraid to move from my chair, lest i jinx the game.
   78. phredbird Posted: May 19, 2019 at 06:35 PM (#5843597)

hicks at 32 pitches ... um ...
   79. phredbird Posted: May 19, 2019 at 06:36 PM (#5843598)

oh ffs ...

bring in martinez or something! anything!
   80. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 06:38 PM (#5843599)
lol


No I didn't notice, but the reputation of Fowler as a great bench guy came from before he was even a Cub...add in everything he's said in the off season and he's just a guy you like, the team likes and everyone should like.
   81. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 06:41 PM (#5843600)
well that sucked....
   82. phredbird Posted: May 19, 2019 at 06:41 PM (#5843601)


that does it ...

i give up. letting hicks keep throwing after that walk was just stupid.
   83. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 06:43 PM (#5843602)
I can't even blame Shildt, he was ejected, but clearly his incompetence took form with his replacement.
   84. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 06:48 PM (#5843604)
Not sure what to think... by far the best pitcher on the staff is asked to come into a bases loaded (he intentionally walked it) extra inning game with a tied score and no outs.... it's an impossible situation for any pitcher, not good for a guy coming back from injury.... but again he's absolutely our clear best talented pitcher....


it' ought to be interesting... oops one out now.
   85. phredbird Posted: May 19, 2019 at 06:49 PM (#5843605)

what a bunch of cr@p.
   86. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 06:50 PM (#5843607)
bader... that was not a good throw.....
   87. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 06:51 PM (#5843608)
what a bunch of cr@p.


yep.... can't blame Carlos though
   88. Howie Menckel Posted: May 19, 2019 at 07:22 PM (#5843612)
any chance we come up with a maximum number of posts by one poster per day? or will the Rays figure out a way to circumvent that, too?
   89. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: May 19, 2019 at 07:36 PM (#5843617)
even if these rules were in effect, it wouldn't have made one bit of a difference last season

Because the rule works in conjunction with another rule that hasn't been implemented yet. It's not intended to keep teams from occasionally using position players to pitch the way they already do in blowouts or long extra-inning games; it's intended to remove the incentive for teams to pass off a pitcher as a position player.
   90. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 19, 2019 at 07:49 PM (#5843618)
They want to expand rosters to 26. But they also know that if they expand rosters to 26 that teams will just add a 14th pitcher.

To update an old adage, you’d only need 14 pitchers if you didn’t already have 13 decent ones. Teams, at least in the NL, should have a competitive advantage by adding a position player to a 26-man roster. No reason to go beyond that, especially with rules that would limit a team’s ability to deploy its players.
   91. Howie Menckel Posted: May 19, 2019 at 08:18 PM (#5843621)
Descalso now on a 7-for-61 tear for the Cubs.

he's struggling of late, but he's only 32 and has a career 84 OPS+ - so let him bat his way out of this slump.
   92. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: May 19, 2019 at 08:20 PM (#5843622)
The extra roster spot would be coupled with a significant diminishment in September call-ups; booooooo.
   93. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: May 19, 2019 at 08:23 PM (#5843624)
Schwarber so far today has 3 PA, 0 AB, 1 R, 2 RBI.
   94. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2019 at 08:37 PM (#5843625)
any chance we come up with a maximum number of posts by one poster per day? or will the Rays figure out a way to circumvent that, too?


nope... for the most part, I usually dominate these threads, and i've never reached a maximum limit... I mean sometimes we would have 100 post threads in which I had at least 70 or more of the posts and nobody has put a maximum on it to stop me... :)
   95. Walt Davis Posted: May 19, 2019 at 09:14 PM (#5843635)
To update an old adage, you’d only need 14 pitchers if you didn’t already have 13 decent ones. Teams, at least in the NL, should have a competitive advantage by adding a position player to a 26-man roster. No reason to go beyond that, especially with rules that would limit a team’s ability to deploy its players.

You might want to watch current baseball -- or not depending on your stomach for relievers. It is obvious teams would like to shorten starts even further. They would like to reduce 3rd-time opportunities even further. Your "adage" held for the move from 10 to 11 pitchers, 11 to 12 and 12 to 13. EVERYBODY, even the dullards in the MLB office know that a 26th roster spot will be a 14th pitcher. They further know that without some restriction on pitcher usage (something like the 3-batter requirement), a 14th pitcher will lead to even more mid-inning changes. And, correctly or not, teams have clearly decided there is not much of a competitive advantage to having an extra position player. Or even several of them -- look at Sept call-ups and it's heavily pitchers and the position player call-ups are largely third Cs, long-serving organizational soldiers and the occasional Terrence Gore. Look at 40-man rosters and it's packed with pitchers.
   96. Walt Davis Posted: May 19, 2019 at 09:15 PM (#5843637)
Anyway I wandered back in to ask if Javy just got hurt or is Joe just giving him a few innings off finally?
   97. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: May 19, 2019 at 09:35 PM (#5843650)
Anyway I wandered back in to ask if Javy just got hurt or is Joe just giving him a few innings off finally?

According to MLB.com, he hurt his ankle, tried to play through it at first and then came out.
   98. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: May 19, 2019 at 10:31 PM (#5843685)
Cishek with an old-school, come-in-with-a-runner-on 2.1-inning save. That's his longest appearance since 2012, and I believe his first-ever save of 2 or more innings (out of 129 in his career).

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