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Sunday, November 22, 2009

O’Neill: Hornsby - Musial - Pujols: The Greatest Cardinal?

Thankfully…Dal Maxvill and his VigRx OPS Plus fueled bat are here to answer!

For rational minds, these conversations are destined to have a “chicken or the egg” quality. A comparison of Musial and Pujols, statistically and periodically, is imperfect and illogical on multiple levels. You can begin with one batted lefthanded, the other bats right ... and you can go from there.

Musial’s parallel seasons are now some 60 years removed. They took place before television, before West Coast travel, before double-knit fabrics, before steroids, before sacrifice flies, before and after integration, before Dominicans such as Pujols played in the major leagues.

...“You couldn’t pick two better ones, both on and off the field,” said former Cardinals player and executive Dal Maxvill, who played with Musial late in his career and has watched Pujols develop from afar. “Wouldn’t it be fun to have a ball club where you could put Pujols at first and put Stan in left, and have fun watching everyone try to get them out?”

...In a texting, Twittering, information-insatiable society, where memories run short and hyperbole runs thick, those numbers are promoting Pujols to legendary heights. His name now surfaces in conversations about the best hitters to ever play major league baseball. Some might even presume a third MVP trophy would put him top shelf in that “Greatest Cardinal” debate.

Repoz Posted: November 22, 2009 at 08:09 AM | 12 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: cardinals, hall of fame, history

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1. bjhanke Posted: November 22, 2009 at 10:30 AM (#3393800)

Thankfully...Dal Maxvill and his VigRx OPS Plus fueled bat are here to answer!

Heh. Dal went to the top local school - Washington University - and played varsity ball. As far as I know, he still holds the career record for highest batting average.

As for the actual question, it has to be Musial as of now. Hornsby didn't play his entire career in STL, and Pujols' career is only about half done.

- Brock Hanke

2. Jeff K. Posted: November 22, 2009 at 12:01 PM (#3393806)

It not only has to be Musial as of now, I think there's still less than a 1 in 2 chance that Pujols ends up better than Musial, and I'm probably being conservative there.

3. KingKaufman Posted: November 22, 2009 at 05:59 PM (#3393917)

Stubby Clapp. Next question.

4. Infinite Yost (Voxter)

Posted: November 22, 2009 at 06:07 PM (#3393924)

Next question.

Dick Teed: Great catcher, or greatest catcher ever?

5. zachtoma Posted: November 22, 2009 at 06:17 PM (#3393934)

Do you know who is 2nd in total bases in MLB history? Stan Musial. (Hank Aaron is #1)

6. Dag Nabbit apealing [sic] his own check swing Posted: November 22, 2009 at 06:39 PM (#3393947)

Richelieu was the greatest Cardinal of them all.

7. Walt Davis Posted: November 22, 2009 at 06:58 PM (#3393960)

Richelieu was the greatest Cardinal of them all.

I go with Biggles.

Musial had over 3000 games in a Cardinal uniform. There's no point even having this conversation until Pujols has spent another 10 years or so in one.

Now if the question is "who was the most talented player to play for the Cardinals for an extended period of time?" ... then you've got an interesting discussion.

I'll go with Dick Allen. :-)

8. bobm Posted: November 22, 2009 at 11:37 PM (#3394106)

Here's each one through 9 seasons. They're quite similar through their age 29 seasons:

 <br>

Player        From-To   Years        G   PA   AB    R    H  2B  3B  HR  RBI SB CS  BB  SO    BA   OBP  SLG   OPS  OPS+<br>

Stan Musial   1941-1950 9 Seasons 1218 5392 4688  920 1624 343 115 174  815 49  0 652 235 0.346 0.429 0.580 1.009 171<br>

Albert Pujols 2001-2009 9 Seasons 1399 6082 5146 1071 1717 387  14 366 1112 61 30 811 570 0.334 0.427 0.628 1.055 172<br>

9. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: November 22, 2009 at 11:58 PM (#3394126)

8. Musial's SB/CS is absolutely incredible.

10. Crispix Attacks Posted: November 23, 2009 at 12:17 AM (#3394139)

There is no CS information before 1951. Musial's numbers CS from 1941 to 1950 on BB-ref are just blank spaces, not zeroes.

From 1951 through 1955 he was 20 for 47 in steal attempts, so I imagine that he had an similarly bad percentage earlier in his career.

11. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: November 23, 2009 at 03:53 AM (#3394259)

Thanks for the clarification. For a moment, I had a radically altered perception of Musial. It is worth noting that there is CS information for Babe Ruth and Jimmie Foxx (amongst others)

12. SandyRiver Posted: November 23, 2009 at 06:16 PM (#3394568)

Here's each one through 9 seasons. They're quite similar through their age 29 seasons:

That may make sense for "through age 29" but not for "through 9 seasons, as it ignores the fact that Musial's first "season" was 12 games as a late-season call-up.

However, the topic is a worthy, if premature, question. Give Albert another 5+ seasons in STL doing what he's been doing and propose it again. (And Hornsby isn't in the picture, IMO. Greatest hitting peak of the three, but mediocre fielding rep, horrible clubhouse rep, and relatively short tenure.)

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Sunday, November 22, 2009

O’Neill: Hornsby - Musial - Pujols: The Greatest Cardinal?

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