Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, December 12, 2007

O’s trade Tejada to Astros

Team gets OF Scott, pitchers Albers, Patton, Sarfate, 3B Costanzo in return

MSI Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:43 PM | 150 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: astros, orioles

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 
   1. MSI Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:49 PM (#2642575)
Scott and Patton seem like useful players, but are any of the other 3 very intriguing? It seems like a lot of mediocre talent instead of 1 really good prospect, which I'd rather have. But still, it's only Miguel Tejada.
   2. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:52 PM (#2642577)
But still, it's only Miguel Tejada. He at least should help Houston next year.

Help them do what? How likely are they to be any good, even with Tejada?

It seems like this is a fairly big trade that doesn't do all that much for either team.
   3. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:52 PM (#2642579)
What happens to Adam Everett?
   4. Champions Table Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:53 PM (#2642582)
He plays at the left hand of Miggy.
   5. DKDC Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:53 PM (#2642583)
Sickels's ratings:

Patton B+
Costanzo B-

Albers is not eligible, but he was rated B+ a year ago.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Scott flipped to a contender.

Bedard and Roberts are probably going to be shipped out very soon.
   6. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:54 PM (#2642584)
What happens to Adam Everett?

Tejada to third, perhaps? Reports on his defense are not good.
   7. The Piehole of David Wells Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:54 PM (#2642585)
What happens to Adam Everett?


they cut off his eyelids, cover him with honey, tie him up and leave him in the desert. who cares really?
   8. JJ1986 Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:56 PM (#2642588)
I kind of like the trade for the Orioles. Houston pitching prospects seem to all flop in recent years, but Albers and Patton are both decent gambles. Scott is probably the second best hitter on their team now, especially if Roberts gets traded.

I hate it for the Astros. They're not going to compete this year. Tejada at third, Bourn in center, Pence in right is worse offensively than Wigginton at third Scott in right, Pence in center and this is a team that's already punting shortstop, second base and catcher sometimes at the plate.
   9. DKDC Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:57 PM (#2642589)
Does this trade signal that Tejada isn't in the Mitchell report? Or does the mediocre return signal the opposite?
   10. MSI Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:57 PM (#2642590)
What happens to the Astros rotation?

Oswalt
Woody Williams
Wandy Rodriguez
Brandon Backe
....
   11. The Essex Snead Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:57 PM (#2642591)
they cut off his eyelids, cover him with honey, tie him up and leave him in the desert. who cares really?

The ants, for one.
   12. AROM Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:57 PM (#2642592)
I think Scott stays. I like him, but he hasn't really been a fulltime player (though he's handled lefties OK in limited tries). He's a decent player, but its hard to find a contending team that would see him as an upgrade.
   13. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:59 PM (#2642595)
Rerto-shiite will get pissed at this suggestion, but I was hoping that Tejada could have fetched somebody like Rich Hill. I would have liked such a one-for-one deal far better than this. Then again, I don't know anything about the any of these players. I've only heard of Scott.
   14. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:59 PM (#2642596)
What a pointless trade for the Astros. I expect Tejada to have a pretty big start and then fade when he realizes he's still not on a good team.

Edit: Woody Williams is still pitching? No ####.
   15. AROM Posted: December 12, 2007 at 06:59 PM (#2642597)
I hate it for the Astros. They're not going to compete this year.


I can't find a reason to disagree. If Tejada couldn't take the losing in Baltimore, he's not going to be much happier here.
   16. Wakefieldfan Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:01 PM (#2642598)
they cut off his eyelids, cover him with honey, tie him up and leave him in the desert. who cares really?


Considering that he's easily the best defensive SS in baseball, probably fans of the Astros. Both of them.
   17. Moe Greene Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:02 PM (#2642599)
Sickels's ratings:

Patton B+


Huh. That's the same grade Sickels gave to Homer Bailey last week.

As a Reds fan, I hope that Bailey's chances of success aren't the same as Patton's.
   18. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:03 PM (#2642600)
I think Scott stays. I like him, but he hasn't really been a fulltime player (though he's handled lefties OK in limited tries). He's a decent player, but its hard to find a contending team that would see him as an upgrade.

If the Dodgers still have an interest in Bedard, I could see Scott going there to replace Kemp. But who knows given the Kuroda situation.

My first reaction to this was meh, but after further thought I think it's a decent return for Tejada. They weren't going to get an A prospect, and so quantity over quality isn't a bad idea. Put another way, are these five guys worth more than, say, Brandon Wood? Hard to say, but there's a decent chance Wood never does anything, and then the trade would be horrible. Here there's a good chance 1-2 players aside from Scott turn into something useful.
   19. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:03 PM (#2642601)
What's the upside of Albers? I've only taken a cursory glance of the Houston players but the trade seems like Tejada for Patton and a bunch of spare parts. I would rather have Patton and another good prospect.
   20. Jonah Keri Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:04 PM (#2642602)
Hey, and the Mitchell Report's about to come out. Imagine that.
   21. Loren F. Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:06 PM (#2642605)
What do the O's want in Luke Scott? Markakis is already in RF, and is younger and better in every way. Plus, as AROM points out, it's hard to think of a contender that would have use for him.

I realize that the key was to shed Tejada's contract and get young pitching. But I am still not impressed with Baltimore's haul. Not that Tejada provides a lot of help for Houston; it looks like a deal between two teams without grand strategies.
   22. Champions Table Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:08 PM (#2642608)
RE: Everett -- IIRC, he's coming off a broken leg. Are there any concerns about his range/mobility going forward?
   23. Exploring Leftist Conservatism since 2008 (ark..) Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:09 PM (#2642609)
Just checked his stats again, which reminded me that Miggy's been on a HOF career path. Who thinks he'll actually make it in?
   24. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:09 PM (#2642610)
I would rather have Patton and another good prospect.

The Astros don't have one.
   25. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:09 PM (#2642611)
What do the O's want in Luke Scott? Markakis is already in RF, and is younger and better in every way. Plus, as AROM points out, it's hard to think of a contender that would have use for him.

Can Markakis handle CF?
   26. The Essex Snead Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:09 PM (#2642612)
What do the O's want in Luke Scott? Markakis is already in RF, and is younger and better in every way. Plus, as AROM points out, it's hard to think of a contender that would have use for him.

Given they had Jay Payton & Friends in LF last year, I'd think they'd give Scott a chance to do his thing over there.
   27. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:09 PM (#2642613)
This is a good deal for Baltimore. Patton and Albers add to the rotation depth (which will be necessary when Bedard is traded), Sarfate is a potentially useful swing man, Scott will help the OF situation, and anything they get from Costanzo will be a bonus (I'm not high on him).

It's also not a terrible deal for Houston - their farm system is such that there's no immediate help anywhere, and the NL Central is so weak that they might as well take a shot at trying to winkle out a division title over the next year or two while seeing what happens with the lower reaches of the system.

-- MWE
   28. JJ1986 Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:09 PM (#2642614)
What do the O's want in Luke Scott? Markakis is already in RF, and is younger and better in every way. Plus, as AROM points out, it's hard to think of a contender that would have use for him.

They also have Aubrey Huff at DH and Jays Gibbons and Payon in LF. Scott's a better hitter than any of those players. Plus, Scott could be very useful to some contenders. Cleveland, San Diego, Toronto (if they're willing to trade him in the division), The Cubs maybe if they get Pie back in a Roberts deal.
   29. zoobird Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:09 PM (#2642615)
Sickels's ratings:

Patton B+

Huh. That's the same grade Sickels gave to Homer Bailey last week.

As a Reds fan, I hope that Bailey's chances of success aren't the same as Patton's.


Both suck right now, but at least Bailey is a year younger and has shown a high K/9 rate at AA.
   30. DKDC Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:11 PM (#2642616)
What do the O's want in Luke Scott? Markakis is already in RF, and is younger and better in every way.

I'm probably going out on a limb here, but I think Scott might be able to make the transition to LF.

On second thought, the Orioles would prefer to move Payton, Gibbons, or Huff and keep Scott, but I'm guessing there's almost zero market for those guys.

I'm liking this trade more and more: trade Tejada for depth prospects, and get the elite guy(s) from a Bedard trade.
   31. standuptriple Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:11 PM (#2642618)
The timing of this deal is more than a little suspect.
   32. Loren F. Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:12 PM (#2642619)
Thank you, all. I now realize Scott may have some use, especially compared with Payton et al.
   33. The Essex Snead Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:13 PM (#2642622)
I wonder if any prospective Bedard deal will involve the other team picking up one of the Huff / Gibbons / Payton / Millar / Nokes / Tartabull cadre.
   34. Lassus Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:15 PM (#2642623)
Oh Lord, everything's suspect now. Whatever.
   35. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:15 PM (#2642624)
Luke Scott is already 29 years old. Were the arms the centerpiece of this one, for the Orioles?
   36. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:17 PM (#2642625)
Luke Scott is already 29 years old. Were the arms the centerpiece of this one, for the Orioles?


Yup.

-- MWE
   37. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:18 PM (#2642627)
The Astros don't have one.

Then don't trade him. At this point, I'm worried that this trade looks like a Syd Thrift trade from the 2000 purge. Scott, Albers, Costanzo are the new Chris Richard, Leslie Brea, and Jose Leon. I'm happy with Patton but I would rather have a better prospect than Costanzo. The rest of the guys just add to the mediocrity which the O's specialize in.
   38. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:20 PM (#2642635)
Can Markakis handle CF?

I don't think he'd be great out there, but he's been very impressive in the 30 some games I've seen him in RF. Camden isn't all that big of a centerfield, I wouldn't be surprised if he could handle it. I will of course, defer to the opinion of any O's fan that is subsequently posted.
   39. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:21 PM (#2642636)
Then don't trade him. At this point, I'm worried that this trade looks like Syd Thrift trade from the 2000 purge. Scott, Albers, Costanzo are the new Chris Richard, Leslie Brea, and Jose Leon. I'm happy with Patton but I would rather have a better prospect than Costanzo. The rest of the guys just add to the mediocrity which the O's specialize in.

Yeah. My first reaction was that was an awful lot of prospects from a team with a barren farm system. I think they should have absorbed some of the contract if it meant they could get better prospects from somebody.
   40. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:23 PM (#2642641)
On second thought, the Orioles would prefer to move Payton, Gibbons, or Huff and keep Scott, but I'm guessing there's almost zero market for those guys.

I'm pretty sure all three of those guys will be gone before opening day, even if the Orioles have to eat some or all of their salaries.
   41. DKDC Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:26 PM (#2642643)
I will of course, defer to the opinion of any O's fan that is subsequently posted.

He's a very good defensive RF to my eye, although most metrics have him as average.

I think he played some CF in the minors, and has filled in at CF once or twice in the majors.

Markakis has a plus ability to make diving catches, and a very strong arm, but he may not have enough speed to play CF full time.

I'm all for trying it out, since there's nothing to lose. If he can handle CF, Markakis becomes one of the most valuable players in the majors.
   42. Dingbat_Charlie Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:27 PM (#2642644)
It's sad to think that we might have gotten Pence and Hirsh if they'd pulled the trigger just a year ago (it was my favorite of the 2006 hot stove Tejada rumors).
   43. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:27 PM (#2642645)
Markakis has a plus ability to make diving catches

This is pretty much the first thing that comes to mind when I think of him, he's just good at going down and getting those balls at the edge of his range.
   44. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:29 PM (#2642646)
It's sad to think that we might have gotten Pence and Hirsh

Never heard that one, I thought it was Oswalt, Everett, Ensberg, and another player I can't remember. And I remember a lot people saying that Ensberg would bounce back.
   45. DKDC Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:31 PM (#2642648)
It's sad to think that we might have gotten Pence and Hirsh if they'd pulled the trigger just a year ago (it was my favorite of the 2006 hot stove Tejada rumors).

Yeah, but the best rumors are always better than the actual trades.

Wasn't there a Tejada to the Angels for Wood and Weaver rumor just a couple weeks ago?
   46. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:41 PM (#2642651)
I think it would have been Tejada for Wood and Santana, I never heard Weaver in connection to the Tejada rumor.
   47. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:46 PM (#2642656)
Something interesting from mlbtraderumors.com on this deal. The blogger wrote that that Zreibec's announcement comes on the "heels of a Rosenthal report to the contrary," but his link to the Rosenthal report contains no references to Tejada.

I'd be surprised if Rosenthal pulled a Will Carroll on this one.
   48. Boriole Forester Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:48 PM (#2642659)
I'm sure if MacPhail had been offered more, he'd of taken it (duh). Hopefully, some of the pieces will get moved in subsequent trades. Otherwise, meh.
   49. MSI Posted: December 12, 2007 at 07:53 PM (#2642661)
Rosenthal has such good credibility at this point it doesn't matter.
   50. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: December 12, 2007 at 08:01 PM (#2642666)
#49:

Sure, but it matters for whatever credibility mlbtraderumors.com is trying to garner.

It seems any blogger needs to be careful when calling out (if that's what it was) someone like Rosenthal, especially "on the heels" of Tim Dierkes' interview with none other than...Will Carroll.
   51. Dingbat_Charlie Posted: December 12, 2007 at 08:05 PM (#2642671)
I'm on the fence. If any of these parts are used to get higher-ceilinged prospects I'll like it more. I'm looking forward to the Transaction Oracle entry on this one.
   52. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: December 12, 2007 at 08:08 PM (#2642674)
If any of these parts are used to get higher-ceilinged prospects I'll like it more.

Yeah, Scott could be flipped for something better if he starts out strong. Otherwise, he's too old for what the O's should be doing. The O's need young players with lots of upside and Scott is just too old to fit that bill. If the O's ever contend again, he'll be on the wrong side of 30.
   53. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 12, 2007 at 08:14 PM (#2642680)
Luke Scott is already 29 years old. Were the arms the centerpiece of this one, for the Orioles?


Yup.


But doesn't this trade utterly fail to address the biggest need of the Orioles, which is core position players (and young ones, as opposed to Luke Scott)? On the major league team they basically just have Markakis who can be part of the next good Orioles team (Roberts is already 30). Wieters and Rowell look good as prospects but they've got a long way to go and the system needs more talent in the pipe line.
   54. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: December 12, 2007 at 08:16 PM (#2642685)
It's pretty sad when you can say, "If the O's ever contend again," and remain immune to charges of exaggeration.
   55. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 12, 2007 at 08:17 PM (#2642686)
Yeah. My first reaction was that was an awful lot of prospects from a team with a barren farm system.

Technically Costanzo is from the Phillies farm system, they got him in the Lidge trade.

He probably strikes out too much to be a worthwhile major-league regular, despite his power, but you could say that about an awful lot of prospects these days.
   56. DKDC Posted: December 12, 2007 at 08:22 PM (#2642691)
But doesn't this trade utterly fail to address the biggest need of the Orioles, which is core position players

True, but this is obviously just the first of multiple trades, so those needs will be addressed. Evaluate this trade based on what the Orioles got back, not based on what they didn't get back.

I like the idea of dealing with the NL Central teams since they all (rightly) feel they are just a piece or two away from being serious competitors.

Bedard to the Reds.
Roberts to the Cubs.
Payton to the Pirates.
Hernandez to the Brewers.
Bradford to the Cards.
   57. Willie Mayspedester Posted: December 12, 2007 at 08:42 PM (#2642704)
Haren to the Reds
Ellis to the Cubs
Kotsay to the Pirates
Blanton to the Rangers for Salty, Salty to the Brewers
Street to the Cards
   58. Dingbat_Charlie Posted: December 12, 2007 at 08:42 PM (#2642705)
I've always found Scott to be an interesting hitter. He didn't do much in the minors until he seemed to discover plate discipline in his age 26 season. After that he put up strong numbers at AAA (yes, he was old for a prospect and it was the PCL, but isn't New Orleans actually a pretty strong pitchers park?). His performance in the majors has been up and down but his home/road and L/R splits don't indicate any major weaknesses. Though, if I recall correctly, he is prone to misadventures in the outfield. I'm going to don my orange and black sunglasses and hope he's a late bloomer, or that he'll be used in a deal that returns Bruce, Kemp, or even Murton.

In any event, at least it's O's news that doesn't involve steroid allegations, arrests, or attempts to sign Jeromy Burnitz.
   59. Benny Distefano's Mitt Posted: December 12, 2007 at 08:51 PM (#2642709)
I like it for the Astros. With Berkman, Lee, Pence and Tejada, the lineup may be able to support Everett and Matsui. And Bourn. And Towles.

Maybe not.
   60. Petro Posted: December 12, 2007 at 08:53 PM (#2642712)
Remember that Tejada is owed 26 million for two years, which is probably more than he's worth on the open market given his declining defense, power and ability to stay completely injury free.

So for the Orioles to "win" this trade, they just need to get ANY value out of the 5 players they got back. I don't think any of the five players are special, but all together, they'll probably be worth at least 5-10 mil, and if any of them become more than just spare parts, the O's will have fleeced the 'Stros.
   61. John DiFool2 Posted: December 12, 2007 at 08:54 PM (#2642714)
Rerto-shiite will get pissed at this suggestion, but I was hoping that Tejada could have fetched somebody like Rich Hill. I would have liked such a one-for-one deal far better than this.


This seems like the kind of trade you often could make in Baseball Mogul, just keep adding various B- to C- prospects until the AI caves and gives you the player you want.

Costanzo appears to me, after a cursory check of their minors stats, to be the only guy with some decent upside (3B with power and walks)-the various pitching prospects range from guys with some velocity but no control, to guys with control but no velocity. Scott is one of those late bloomers who often tend to hit the wall around age 30.
   62. Spahn Insane Posted: December 12, 2007 at 09:04 PM (#2642719)
Rerto-shiite will get pissed at this suggestion, but I was hoping that Tejada could have fetched somebody like Rich Hill.

I'm not at all pissed at the suggestion. Were I in your position, I'd've preferred that, too.
   63. The District Attorney Posted: December 12, 2007 at 09:05 PM (#2642721)
Apparently they're being smart and leaving Tejada at SS. So who needs Everett? You'd figure somebody.
   64. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: December 12, 2007 at 09:07 PM (#2642724)
This seems like the kind of trade you often could make in Baseball Mogul, just keep adding various B- to C- prospects until the AI caves and gives you the player you want.


This is the money quote of the thread.

Right now, I'm disappointed, b/c this looks like an empty salary-dump move that I (perhaps naively) expected MacPhail to avoid. There's no obvious quality coming back to the O's.
   65. DKDC Posted: December 12, 2007 at 09:13 PM (#2642728)
While looking for good Luke Scott comps, I found an eerily good one (down to the number of letters in the first and last name):

Trot Nixon age 27-29: .279/.369/.514 (.883 OPS, 128 OPS+)
Luke Scott age 27-29: .273/.366/.518 (.882 OPS, 125 OPS+)
   66. Spahn Insane Posted: December 12, 2007 at 09:21 PM (#2642732)
Right now, I'm disappointed, b/c this looks like an empty salary-dump move that I (perhaps naively) expected MacPhail to avoid. There's no obvious quality coming back to the O's.

Well, there aren't any sure things (and I'm a little surprised they couldn't get more than this), but it isn't THAT bad. Patton's a good prospect, and Albers a decent one; there's a decent chance you get a quality major league starter out of one of them. The rest are crapshoots without a whole lot of upside.

Contrary to DKDC's comment in the Fukudome thread, I think the proposed Cub package (whether it was actually offered, I have no clue) of Gallagher/Murton/Cedeno/Veal is a better package than what the O's got; it almost certainly has more upside.
   67. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: December 12, 2007 at 09:23 PM (#2642735)
There's no obvious quality coming back to the O's.

Sickels rates Patton as a B+ prospect. I'll trust Sickels and say he looks like a decent prospect. The only other prospect is Constanza which Sickels rates as B-. He probably duplicates Scott Moore.
   68. shock Posted: December 12, 2007 at 09:34 PM (#2642737)
Wow.

You have to love it when the team with the worst minor league system in baseball is able to make a prospects-for-now type deal. NOW how bad is Houston's system?
   69. DKDC Posted: December 12, 2007 at 09:36 PM (#2642738)
Sickels has rated 12 teams so far, and these are the 10 pitchers he's rated B+ or higher:

Adenhart B+
Bailey B+
Cueto A-
Detwiler B+
Guerra B+
Hanson B+
Hurley B+
Patton B+
Porcello B+
Robertson B+

Sickels seems to be higher on Patton than most, but it looks like he considers him to be one of the top 25-30 pitching prospects in the majors. Gallagher was rated a B, by the way.
   70. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 12, 2007 at 09:41 PM (#2642740)
Contrary to DKDC's comment in the Fukudome thread, I think the proposed Cub package (whether it was actually offered, I have no clue) of Gallagher/Murton/Cedeno/Veal is a better package than what the O's got; it almost certainly has more upside.


Not unless Veal figures out how to find the strike zone consistently.

-- MWE
   71. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 12, 2007 at 09:43 PM (#2642742)
Albers was a B+ pitching prospect a year ago, but he got hurt this year.

DKDC has it right in #56; this is the first of what will likely be at least three major Oriole trades, the other two of which will involve Roberts and Bedard.

-- MWE
   72. Spahn Insane Posted: December 12, 2007 at 09:46 PM (#2642746)
Not unless Veal figures out how to find the strike zone consistently.

Meh. Leaving Veal out of the equation, Gallagher/Patton's more or less a wash (edge to Patton), ditto Murton/Scott (I'd rather have Murton), and his miserable MLB performance notwithstanding, Cedeno's got more upside than anyone else the Orioles got for Tejada, and would fill their immediate need for a shortstop. I'd take Albers over Veal because he's more developed and more likely to contribute SOMETHING, but the other guys the O's got are pretty much non-entities.
   73. 3RunHomer Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:10 PM (#2642766)
I would've preferred the rumored Cubs trade too. Murton and Cedeno might be part of a Roberts trade with the Cubs.

But ... getting pitchers for Tejada means that the return for Bedard can be all hitters. And he should return some really good hitters.
   74. Suff Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:12 PM (#2642771)
Is there any indication that the Astros intend to use him at 3B rather than SS? They've seemed to be pretty Wigginton-happy since they've gotten him.
   75. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:17 PM (#2642777)
If the Orioles can get something like Cedeno/Gallagher/Murton for Roberts, something like Votto/Cueto/Encarnacion for Bedard, and dump the dead weight, they'll have the foundation for a decent young team in a couple years: C Weiters, 1B Votto, 2B ??? SS Cedeno, 3B Encarnacion (maybe Rowell), RF Scott, CF Markakis, LF Murton (or move Scott and find a real CF), DH Moore or Constanza, staff: Guthrie, Loewen, Cueto, Patton, Gallagher, Penn, Olsen, Liz, Arrieta.
   76. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:32 PM (#2642809)
I was whining about "no obvious quality" because I saw the Tigers-Farm-System-for-Cabrera deal and figured that the O's could have gotten at least one of somebody like Miller or Maybin back.

In that Tigers thread, somebody estimated that Maybin has a 30% chance to have Sammy Sosa's career. Instead, the O's got Trot Nixon upside and some "non-entities" from the "worst minor league system in baseball." That's like getting nothing.

Tejada-for-filler. Great. Can't wait to see what Bedard brings.
   77. MSI Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:33 PM (#2642813)
That's still a mediocre pitching staff, and that's if they make it out of the injury nexus.
   78. zonk Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:35 PM (#2642816)
When someone figures out what Ed Wade is trying to do in Houston, please let me know.
   79. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:36 PM (#2642817)
I was whining about "no obvious quality" because I saw the Tigers-Farm-System-for-Cabrera deal and figured that the O's could have gotten at least one of somebody like Miller or Maybin back.

In that Tigers thread, somebody estimated that Maybin has a 30% chance to have Sammy Sosa's career. Instead, the O's got Trot Nixon upside and some "non-entities" from the "worst minor league system in baseball." That's like getting nothing.

Tejada-for-filler. Great. Can't wait to see what Bedard brings.


I don't understand your complaint. Fairly or unfairly (and I think he's been undervalued), Tejada has nowhere near the trade value of Cabrera or Bedard. Cabrera is 24 on a HOF trajectory. Bedard is 28, cheap for the next two years, and was one of the best pitchers in baseball last year. Bedard should bring back a couple top prospects. The Orioles were never going to get an A prospect for tejada, and so getting back a bunch of role players isn't a bad return. As I said in the Mariners thread, decent role players are extremely important.
   80. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:36 PM (#2642818)
#78: He's fleecing the Orioles.
   81. jmurph Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:42 PM (#2642827)
When someone figures out what Ed Wade is trying to do in Houston, please let me know.


I think you're assuming he's trying to do anything, which might be a false assumption. Teams like Houston, Cincinatti, San Francisco, Pittsburgh (until now, maybe), Texas, the White Sox (07 and 08 models), and probably somebody else that I'm missing, always seem to think they're just one or two vets away from really putting it all together.

That being said, maybe I'm not being fair- Houston might just be stuck. You have Berkman, Lee, and Oswalt all in their primes, so you either go for it now or trade all of those guys away. You can't really blame them for going for it, especially in that division. But really going for it is going to involve getting some guys behind Oswalt, which might be impossible.
   82. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:44 PM (#2642835)
#79: I knew I should have been clearer about comparing this with the Tigers trade. I'll try again.

Cabrera and Willis brought in two A'ish prospects, plus four more players. I figured that, at worst, the O's could get one A'ish prospect and nothing else for Tejada.

I didn't see that as unreasonable.
   83. T.J. Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:47 PM (#2642844)
From Yahoo! Sports:

Wade said while Tejada may not cover quite as much ground as he once did, the Astros are confident he'll be solid in that spot. Adam Everett, Houston's shortstop this season, will become an unrestricted free agent by Thursday, Wade said.
   84. DKDC Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:52 PM (#2642854)
Wade said while Tejada may not cover quite as much ground as he once did, the Astros are confident he'll be solid in that spot.

Good move by the Astros.

It still baffles me that MacPhail openly discussed that he was marketing Tejada to other teams as a third baseman. He's far more valuable as an average-to-below-average fielding shortstop.
   85. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:52 PM (#2642857)
Cabrera and Willis brought in two A'ish prospects, plus four more players. I figured that, at worst, the O's could get one A'ish player and nothing else for Tejada.

I didn't see that as unreasonable.


I just looking for two B/B+ prospects. Pattton is fine, maybe Scott can be flipped for another B+ prospect if he starts out well next year.
   86. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:53 PM (#2642858)
I figured that, at worst, the O's could get one A'ish prospect and nothing else for Tejada.

SUre, I was hoping for that too. And I'm sure MacPhail would have preferred getting a Maybin type back for tejada, but I doubt that was on the table. As it is, he did get a good return for Tejada. The key to this offseason has always been Bedard. If the Orioles can get 2 or even 3 top tier prospects for him they'll be in great shape. The Roberts and Tejada trades will round out the roster will useful role players.
   87. JMPH Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:55 PM (#2642864)
Cabrera and Willis brought in two A'ish prospects, plus four more players. I figured that, at worst, the O's could get one A'ish prospect and nothing else for Tejada.


But instead they got five players, including Patton, who is just 22 years old and has a pretty solid minor-league track record. He's not Clay Buchholz or Phil Hughes, but he's got some upside. Luke Scott is no slouch, and I'm sure he's not meant to be a long-term solution in Baltimore. I think if anyone made a bad trade here, it was Houston, not Baltimore.
   88. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: December 12, 2007 at 10:55 PM (#2642865)
The Transaction Oracle is pretty high on the trade. Dan knows more about Tejada's trade value than anybody around, so I guess I can feel better.
   89. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 12, 2007 at 11:03 PM (#2642873)
Tejada may go ape willies in that ballpark in this league. He better because the gap between his defense and Adam's is large enough so that if Miguel is just a 110 OPS+ player at short this is a loser deal for the Astros.

I am a big fan of Everett's and am surprised that folks are falling back on the old canard that "any old shortstop will do if he can hit" routine.

There are shortstops and then there are SHORTSTOPS.
   90. Ennder Posted: December 12, 2007 at 11:10 PM (#2642884)
I think the Astros just downgraded at SS once you add in defense. I'm guessing this means Everett to 2B with Burke as a utility guy?
   91. Ennder Posted: December 12, 2007 at 11:29 PM (#2642915)
Actually that can't be right, forgot they signed Matsui. Everett must be available for trade or gonna play 3B where his defense is downplayed and his bat is even worse looking.
   92. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 12, 2007 at 11:31 PM (#2642919)
"But doesn't this trade utterly fail to address the biggest need of the Orioles, which is core position players (and young ones, as opposed to Luke Scott)?"

The Orioles' rotation last year included two good starters (Bedard and Guthrie), a talented-but-ineffective enigma (Cabrera), a terrifying-but-improbably-mediocre Steve Trachsel, and a collection of filler (Brian Burres, Jon Leicester, Jaret Wright, Victor Zambrano, Victor Santos, Kurt Birkins, and a not-ready-for-prime-time Garrett Olson and Radhames Liz). They'll get Loewen back next year, but they'll also probably flip Bedard, so there are still plenty of starts out there for "the field".
   93. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: December 12, 2007 at 11:35 PM (#2642927)
Actually that can't be right, forgot they signed Matsui. Everett must be available for trade or gonna play 3B where his defense is downplayed and his bat is even worse looking.

See post 83, you won't be happy.
   94. The District Attorney Posted: December 12, 2007 at 11:37 PM (#2642929)
Anyone who doesn't know where Tejada is playing, or what they're doing with Everett, needs to RTFC (read the f-ing comments.) Right or wrong, they're putting Tejada at SS and dumping Everett. And it well might be wrong, given that Wigginton is nothing great, and that I seem to recall MGL arguing that Everett's defense was so good that he was a decent player despite his putrid offense. But, that's what they're doing.

Tampa seemed like by far the most logical landing spot for Everett before they got Bartlett. Now, I dunno. You'd need either a terrific hitting team that can contend but has a SS hole, or a rebuilding team that wants to ease life for its young pitchers. I don't see very many fits here at all, but the Nats strike me as an excellent one, in the latter category. Not only would Everett himself help the D, but moving Lopez to 2B essentially helps it twice... and if they're gonna have Milledge, who will probably be good defensively eventually but isn't yet, and Wily Mo and Dmitri Young, who will never be good defensively, all out there at the same time... well, it'd be nice if someone could field.

To be fair, this is all assuming that Everett still is an all-world fielder after a serious leg injury, which I don't think we know.
   95. Mayor Blomberg Posted: December 12, 2007 at 11:38 PM (#2642932)
If Tejada will be "solid" in his spot, the Stros should bring back Biggio. They could start their own Monument Valley in the infield.
   96. lincarnate Posted: December 12, 2007 at 11:40 PM (#2642938)
Adam Everett to Tampa anyone?
   97. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 12, 2007 at 11:45 PM (#2642946)
Cedeno's got more upside than anyone else the Orioles got for Tejada, and would fill their immediate need for a shortstop.


Cedeno's got almost no upside. The only place he's hit in the minors is in the PCL (yeah, Iowa, but still the PCL). He didn't hit in A-ball, he didn't hit in AA, and he didn't hit as a regular with the Cubs in 2006. He's got a lot more PAs of non-hitting than he does of hitting.

-- MWE
   98. Ennder Posted: December 12, 2007 at 11:48 PM (#2642957)
Everett to the Brewers with Hardy moving to 3B and Braun to LF? They certainly have the offense to absorb his bat and they could use the defensive upgrade. A lot of people think Hardy is going to move to 3B as he ages anyway since he is big for a SS.
   99. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: December 12, 2007 at 11:52 PM (#2642970)
Well this thread seems like a big Oriole circle Jerk.
I like this trade from the Astros perspective ..

Pence
Berkman
Lee
Tejada .

thats a very formidable heart of the order.
Probably the best in the NL central if not the NL.
   100. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: December 12, 2007 at 11:58 PM (#2642980)
Everett would fit well on the A's. They're semi-rebuilding, have a giant giant question mark/black hole at shortstop, and have young pitchers. However, the farm system is pretty awful, I don't know what we have that the Astros might want. Not that Everett merits a huge return, though, of maybe it could happen.
Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
The Id of SugarBear Blanks
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogMariners notebook: Zduriencik fires back at critics | Mariners Insider - The News Tribune
(11 - 11:52am, Aug 01)
Last: Ron J2

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread July, 2014
(564 - 11:51am, Aug 01)
Last: J. Sosa

NewsblogOT: Politics, August 2014: DNC criticizes Christie’s economic record with baseball video
(30 - 11:49am, Aug 01)
Last: The Id of SugarBear Blanks

NewsblogCubs deal Emilio Bonifacio, James Russell to Braves
(14 - 11:45am, Aug 01)
Last: bfan

NewsblogMiklasz: Mozeliak sets off a loud wake-up call
(6 - 11:37am, Aug 01)
Last: Ron J2

NewsblogThe Dark Side of Booming Local TV Deals
(11 - 11:23am, Aug 01)
Last: David Nieporent (now, with children)

NewsblogRanking The Prospects Traded At The Deadline - BaseballAmerica.com
(4 - 11:11am, Aug 01)
Last: RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)

NewsblogCliff Lee Re-Injures Elbow
(27 - 11:10am, Aug 01)
Last: 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people

NewsblogBrewers acquire outfielder Gerardo Parra from D-backs
(8 - 10:56am, Aug 01)
Last: RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)

NewsblogOTP - July 2014: Republicans Lose To Democrats For Sixth Straight Year In Congressional Baseball Game
(4025 - 10:40am, Aug 01)
Last: The Id of SugarBear Blanks

NewsblogA's Acquire Lester, Gomes For Cespedes
(132 - 10:24am, Aug 01)
Last: Nasty Nate

NewsblogAmaro says Phils didn't overvalue players at Deadline | phillies.com: News
(4 - 9:59am, Aug 01)
Last: Batman

NewsblogGeorge "The Animal" Steele Mangles A Baseball
(153 - 9:43am, Aug 01)
Last: NJ in DC (Now unemployed!)

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 8-1-2014
(2 - 9:36am, Aug 01)
Last: Rennie's Tenet

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread- July 2014
(1076 - 9:34am, Aug 01)
Last: Der-K and the statistical werewolves.

Page rendered in 0.4515 seconds
53 querie(s) executed