Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, June 28, 2017

OT-NBA off season thread


I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none that bothered to submit a monthly thread for nearly 4 months as to avoid detracting from what this site is really about: ... white privilege

RollingWave Posted: June 28, 2017 at 07:45 AM | 2859 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off topic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 25 of 29 pages ‹ First  < 23 24 25 26 27 >  Last ›
   2401. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 20, 2017 at 02:04 PM (#5535178)
Jacob Goldstein @JacobEGoldstein
Based off the MVPScore metric from my @NylonCalculus piece, here is every NBA team's highest rated MVP Candidate for 2017-18:
pic.twitter.com/qpbn4d5z8I

   2402. JC in DC Posted: September 20, 2017 at 02:18 PM (#5535187)
Through the layers of his offensive talent, Simmons’ defensive potential isn’t mentioned. His lapses in college are two years removed and playing for a team with (good) NBA talent is the best remedy for an attitude.


From article STIGGLES linked on prior page. None of that makes sense to me as arguments FOR Simmons' defense.
   2403. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 20, 2017 at 02:37 PM (#5535208)
None of that makes sense to me as arguments FOR Simmons' defense.


The heart wants what the heart wants.
   2404. stevegamer Posted: September 20, 2017 at 02:46 PM (#5535222)
Thoughts on a couple of Sixers things:

Brown says Simmons changes other players you can have on court with him. Says he doesn't think you can have another player w/out 3 pt range


I think he's excluding the center in that sentence, otherwise that is a big issue. Embiid can shoot, but isn't a 3-point guy exactly. And the other bigs aren't very rangy.

Through the layers of his offensive talent, Simmons’ defensive potential isn’t mentioned. His lapses in college are two years removed and playing for a team with (good) NBA talent is the best remedy for an attitude.

From article STIGGLES linked on prior page. None of that makes sense to me as arguments FOR Simmons' defense.


I agree. I see no reason to believe attitude & hustle are things that suddenly get turned on because you reach the NBA. The good news is Embiid is there to cover for his lapses, but the bad news is he's only there part-time.


I really really hate the script font on the alternate 76ers uniforms for a couple reasons:

1. It's a thin script font, which looks dainty.
2. It not very easy to read, and in a fast flowing game, it'll be easy to miss.

The fact that it looks like Suxers, is actually funny to me, as it pays tribute to Hinkie.

76ers Red alternate
   2405. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 20, 2017 at 04:18 PM (#5535315)
I think he's excluding the center in that sentence, otherwise that is a big issue. Embiid can shoot, but isn't a 3-point guy exactly. And the other bigs aren't very rangy.
that's inaccurate. last year:

embiid: 37% on 4.5 3PA/36 minutes
holmes: 35% on 2.3 3PA/36 minutes
johnson: 41% on 1.5 3PA/36 minutes
okafor: div/0
   2406. Sleepless in Munich Posted: September 20, 2017 at 04:29 PM (#5535326)
The good news is Embiid is there to cover for his lapses, but the bad news is he's only there part-time.


Or not at all...
   2407. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 20, 2017 at 04:41 PM (#5535339)
Loving Embiid is a recipe for heartbreak, sadness, and melancholy. Bogut has a better injury history.
   2408. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: September 20, 2017 at 05:07 PM (#5535358)
Loving Embiid is a recipe for heartbreak, sadness, and melancholy.


In other words, exactly the comfort zone every Philadelphia sports fan seeks and needs.
   2409. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 21, 2017 at 09:15 AM (#5535673)
"It's not about being ready for the first practice or the first game," Colangelo said. "And he will be out there for the first practice and the first game. The question is how much, how little, if at all. Those things will be determined by certain criteria along the way."

what language is this?
   2410. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 21, 2017 at 10:10 AM (#5535736)
CEO speak.

That Mason Plumlee contract. Does not compute.

I was on a long road trip the last few days and I occasionally listened to the NBA channel on Sirius radio to pass the time while I still have a free trial subscription. My conclusion is that everyone on that channel is an idiot. My brain is still a little sore from all the stupidity.
   2411. Optimistic Moses Taylor, optimist Posted: September 21, 2017 at 10:59 AM (#5535801)
John Paxson on the radio today *still* talking about the Bulls bad luck with the Rose injury. It's perfectly fine for fans to be harping on it still - and also perfectly fine for others to criticize us for that - but it's not for the FO. #### man. More on why the Collins hire is so depressing.
   2412. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 21, 2017 at 11:37 AM (#5535840)
Don't worry Moses, according to Kendall Gill, interviewed on the on Sirius-XM NBA channel, Gar-Pax have done a great job rebuilding and the Bulls will be contenders in 3 or 4 years. Having Doug Collins in the organization will attract free agents because if it's one thing that attracts free agents, it's the old guy in the front office that couldn't win with Michael Jordan! At least that was basketball talk. The rest of it was a lot about whether Kyrie hearts or hates LeBron and KD's twitter account. I know it's the dead season, but jeez.

I will not be renewing Sirius-SM radio when my free trial expires.
   2413. jmurph Posted: September 21, 2017 at 01:06 PM (#5535946)
What I don't understand about the (seemingly impending) Wiggins max deal is, would this really not be available to the Wolves at the end of the season, when he's actually an RFA? What's the risk? That he has a great year, refuses to sign a 5 year max with them, they have to match the 4 year max from someone else, and then FIVE YEARS FROM NOW he leaves? Is that really worth the risk of doing it now?
   2414. Optimistic Moses Taylor, optimist Posted: September 21, 2017 at 01:26 PM (#5535973)
Bobby Marks‏ @BobbyMarks42 18m18 minutes ago

With a likely Andrew Wiggins extension, Minnesota will project to have $123M tied up between 5 players in 2019-20.
   2415. Booey Posted: September 21, 2017 at 01:30 PM (#5535975)
What I don't understand about the (seemingly impending) Wiggins max deal is, would this really not be available to the Wolves at the end of the season, when he's actually an RFA? What's the risk?


The Hayward situation is the risk. Not locking him up for an extra year and/or risk offending him by not showing him you have enough confidence to offer a max deal until someone else does it first.
   2416. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 21, 2017 at 01:36 PM (#5535985)
The Hayward situation is the risk. Not locking him up for an extra year and/or risk offending him by not showing him you have enough confidence to offer a max deal until someone else does it first.


I don't think Wiggins is worth the max and still think it is the right (least bad) move for the franchise.
   2417. Booey Posted: September 21, 2017 at 01:40 PM (#5535989)
I don't think Wiggins is worth the max and still think it is the right (least bad) move for the franchise.


Exactly. You need to gamble sometimes. Hayward wasn't worth the max back in 2014 either, but with 3 extra years of hindsight, I wish the Jazz had locked him up earlier and given us at least one more year to see what the Hayward/Gobert combo could do.

If I were a Wolves fan I think I'd want to team to take the gamble on Wiggins.
   2418. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 21, 2017 at 01:50 PM (#5536003)
is the era of the three year bridge contract over? or is wiggins just not good enough to get it/confident enough to risk it?
   2419. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 21, 2017 at 01:52 PM (#5536005)
I think the Wolves should risk it and let Wiggins get to RFA. I think they need another year to see if he's going to make any strides to being a 2 way player and they need to see how he will fit with Jimmy Butler. I still feel like those two are sort of being smooshed into the same space and want to see how it will work. If Wiggins does explode, they still have the leverage of the designated exception to entice him with in 4 years.
   2420. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 21, 2017 at 02:02 PM (#5536019)
I think the Wolves should risk it and let Wiggins get to RFA.


Honestly, if it were my money paying his salary I might think differently, but since I only care about the quality of the product I think their best shot is max and hope.
   2421. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 21, 2017 at 02:14 PM (#5536039)
Honestly, if it were my money paying his salary I might think differently, but since I only care about the quality of the product I think their best shot is max and hope.

That's the only thing I care about, as well, but the more value you can squeeze out of the salary cap, the better the product. Waiting a year to sign Wiggins doesn't affect the product on the court this coming season, but it doesn't necessarily make it better going forward after that. Butler and Towns are a nice Big 2 to try to entice another start while Towns is still on a rookie deal. That opportunity is now gone. I just think, in this case, the more conservative choice was to wait.
   2422. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 21, 2017 at 02:32 PM (#5536059)
That opportunity is now gone. I just think, in this case, the more conservative choice was to wait.


It is a decision tree. Give Wiggins the max, yes or no? If yes, then what is his production worth versus what else could have been done to better the team? (note: This is where the decision is made, because there is eally no where to go to get more talent for the team if he doesn't stay with the team)

If no then will we be able to sign him in the future or will he be lost for nothing in return? (And again if the value doesn't come from Wiggins, then where?)

I mean I get your reasoning and it is close, but I sign him and hope. Especially once the billionaire owner has the chance to look him in the ye before formally offering the contract. ;)
   2423. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 21, 2017 at 02:39 PM (#5536068)
(note: This is where the decision is made, because there is eally no where to go to get more talent for the team if he doesn't stay with the team)

This is a problem years into the future, though. The choice isn't to sign him now or lose him now so you don't have to worry about replacing him. It's true I haven't looked him in the eye, of course, but I have an imagination! Black eyes, like a doll's eyes...
   2424. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 21, 2017 at 03:44 PM (#5536125)
Embiid is a superstar-elect. He’s a defensive stalwart whose ability to communicate and feel for the game crushed opposing offenses and left ridiculous metrics in its wake. He has the ability to do everything on offense. He’s a great athlete who can also shoot 3-pointers, drive to the basket, run pick-and-roll/pop and rebound. Good luck moving him at 7-foot-2 and 275 pounds.

At 23-years-old, Embiid is already more polished than some players in their prime. And his game improved each month, peaking with a plus-16 net rating in January.

The schedule changes were serendipitous to both Embiid and the Sixers. The Sixers have a back-to-back the second and third games of the season, but won’t have another until December. With a less burdened 82-game schedule, the Sixers can better afford to play Embiid more than his 25-minute cap while Embiid gains a better opportunity to adjust to the wear and tear.


link

   2425. jmurph Posted: September 21, 2017 at 04:03 PM (#5536146)
I get the Hayward thing, but this isn't that. This is a year prior to RFA- they can absolutely give him the 5 year max next summer. Utah didn't offer that when Hayward was in RFA, leading to them matching on the 4 year. This is a full year earlier, it's not the last chance for them to lock him up.
   2426. jmurph Posted: September 21, 2017 at 04:06 PM (#5536149)
And his game improved each month, peaking with a plus-16 net rating in January, which is obviously the final month of the season.

Just fixing that quote.
   2427. jmurph Posted: September 21, 2017 at 04:08 PM (#5536152)
If no then will we be able to sign him in the future or will he be lost for nothing in return? (And again if the value doesn't come from Wiggins, then where?)

Again, just to underscore it, that future when he might be lost for nothing is a full 5 seasons from now. Butler could be gone. Towns could be gone (extremely unlikely, but still). Teague will be gone. This is not sign him now for 5 or lose him in 2018.
   2428. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: September 21, 2017 at 05:56 PM (#5536206)
Wiggins does only one thing: score. He doesn't pass and he doesn't play defense. And with Jimmy Butler in the fold to join Karl-Anthony Towns, the Wolves really do not need three elite scorers. In fact, Wiggins is such an inveterate black hole that his presence on the team probably dampens the offensive value you get from those guys.

There are three paths to substantial improvement for Wiggins:

1. Become a 40% three point shooter. This seems unlikely but it's not outlandish; he did take a big leap from 30% to 35% last year.
2. Learn to pass. This is not going to happen. A chucker is a chucker.
3. Start playing defense. This is unlikely because, again, the problem with his defense is his personality, not his skills or smarts. He just doesn't stay engaged when he's not on the ball. The idea that we should be optimistic about defensive improvement from Wiggins because he clearly has the raw tools is a trap, IMO. No amount of teaching or experience is going to change his attitude.

As I see it, you're just wishing real real hard for a miracle if you're waiting for Wiggins' personality to change. So giving him a max contract is making a $150 million bet that he can become a 40% three point shooter, because that more than anything is what the Wolves need. Everything else he brings, they already get from Towns and Butler and he's just going to take 10 points a night from them without adding much else.

Wiggins DOES have substantial value, maybe even max contract level value... just not to the Wolves. I would be looking to trade him, and content to wait out the year and re-evaluate if the right offer can't be solicited.

And if I did keep Wiggins, I would be looking to stagger my starters' minutes such that Wiggins plays a lot of minutes with the bench players. He can happily be the one-man offense he so enjoys being when Towns and Butler are sitting. But, of course, Tom Thibodeau is coaching this team so there won't be any bench players on the floor. :)
   2429. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 22, 2017 at 08:53 AM (#5536613)
Again, just to underscore it, that future when he might be lost for nothing is a full 5 seasons from now.


This is not really true. Even if he had a five year contract right now it wouldn't mean much. Unhappy players move all the time, and the return from them is typically poor.

Wiggins has talent and could become much more. The avenues for getting talent for a team like the Wolves are limited. It is not always the right thing to, but sometimes it is. In this case I think it likely is, but I don't think it is a slam dunk.

You can't keep saying that Wiggins can be replaced or turned into something better, history suggests even very good teams fail to convert one asset into another of equal value all the time. Yes they might be able to not sign him, wait and see and resign him if he devlopes and trade him if he doesn't. But that is by no means a certainty, you are just trading one risk for another.
   2430. JC in DC Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:18 AM (#5536637)
2427: Very funny. There was drool all over that article.
   2431. jmurph Posted: September 22, 2017 at 09:25 AM (#5536641)
This is not really true. Even if he had a five year contract right now it wouldn't mean much

It is literally true that they have him for the next 5 years if they want him.* If you're talking about demanding a trade mid-contract, that's pretty rare! Kyrie, Carmelo...? I'm probably forgetting someone. But DeMarcus didn't want to get moved, there's no real indication Paul George even wanted to get traded (though obviously his desire to be elsewhere forced their hand, we're still talking about a trade with only one year remaining). Butler obviously didn't request it. It's not really a thing that happens very often.

I think Wiggins will be good, but he has not yet been good. I think the risk of losing him after 5 years rather than 6 is vastly outweighed by the risk that he fails to impress again this year, and/or proves to be a bad fit with Butler.

*I guess to be completely fair we have to factor in the negligible chance that a player who (in this scenario) is getting max contract offers from other teams would instead be willing to play out his RFA year on the qualifying offer and then bolt, but I don't believe that has happened yet.

   2432. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 22, 2017 at 11:53 AM (#5536766)
this is pretty cool:
Zach Lowe ✔ @ZachLowe_NBA
For those asking, a look at Ian Eagle's prep sheet for one team
pic.twitter.com/mLzk20lBSO
   2433. JJ1986 Posted: September 23, 2017 at 01:08 PM (#5537316)
The Knicks are the worst.
   2434. Optimistic Moses Taylor, optimist Posted: September 23, 2017 at 01:10 PM (#5537318)
I kinda like his fit on the thunder.
   2435. PJ Martinez Posted: September 23, 2017 at 01:22 PM (#5537325)
One big winner of the the trade is the NBA: Golden State still likely head and shoulders above the rest, but Houston and OKC are very interesting (and the Spurs will probably be good again). The East stinks, but the Boston-Cleveland dynamic should be fun. And the Knicks, post-Phil and post-Melo, can finally focus on building around Porzingis. (I'll be skeptical of New York as long as Dolan's around, but I'm glad they've moved on from Anthony, finally.)
   2436. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: September 23, 2017 at 01:29 PM (#5537326)
I know it's fun to LOL Knicks, but never could picture any actual assets going their way for Carmelo.
   2437. Optimistic Moses Taylor, optimist Posted: September 23, 2017 at 02:00 PM (#5537337)
People have pointed out that the thunder got melo for virtually the same package the bulls used (including the actual pick) to get Payne.
   2438. tshipman Posted: September 23, 2017 at 02:02 PM (#5537338)
I know it's fun to LOL Knicks, but never could picture any actual assets going their way for Carmelo.


I dunno ... Kanter is kind of the perfect fit next to Porzingis. Kanter can guard any actual bruisers, and Porzingis can focus on being a help defender. It makes sense to me.

***

OKC has had a very interesting offseason. Westbrook/Roberson/George/Melo/Adams. Melo shot 42% last year on Catch/shoot 3s, and had an overall 55% eFG. If the famous Olympic Melo shows up in OKC, he can really help them.

All that said, though, they still look like a fake contender to me.
   2439. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: September 23, 2017 at 02:22 PM (#5537346)
I dunno ... Kanter is kind of the perfect fit next to Porzingis. Kanter can guard any actual bruisers, and Porzingis can focus on being a help defender. It makes sense to me.

LOL.

Still, I'm fine with the deal as a Knicks fan. Hope Melo finds success elsewhere.

Facing two of SAS/HOU/OKC in rounds 2 and 3 is going to be tough for GSW. Maybe they'll be softened up by CLE-GSW IV.

EDIT: If the famous Olympic Melo shows up in OKC, he can really help them.

Even better if they can get Hoodie Melo.
   2440. JC in DC Posted: September 23, 2017 at 02:29 PM (#5537349)
Why is this a bad trade for NY? This seems like a good one to me, considering that moving on WITH Carmelo was not an option. There were literally reports about the Knicks buying him out. Kanter has flaws for sure, but he's also got some skills. This gets rid of Anthony, his contract, and the way he affects the team, it adds two actual NBA players, and begins the next phase of NYK's special brand of incompetence. As things go, the trade looks pretty damned good to me. I'm actually optimistic that Kanter will look better with a pass-first PG running the offense than with Westbrook. Whether that means more actual wins? I'm not so sure.
   2441. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: September 23, 2017 at 02:49 PM (#5537353)
And teammates seem to actually like playing with Kanter. This is a 'we traded melo? Great trade, who'd we get?" situation, but I actually like Kanter a bit, especially next to KP on a go-nowhere team where Kanter can eat some possessions in a quasi-productive way.
   2442. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: September 23, 2017 at 03:05 PM (#5537362)
I dunno. Does Melo make your team appreciably better? At all? Before accounting for the fact there's scant chance he, George and Westbrook are all going to get along?
   2443. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: September 23, 2017 at 03:10 PM (#5537366)
I'm not sure how Kanter would look better on offense than he has in OKC - nor how the Knicks will help him on D.

Pretty good deal for the Thunder (it's a buyers market and it looks like the Knicks may have been afraid to keep Melo in the east for ... reasons?).
---
Pelton gave OKC an A, NYK a D. Sounds right.
   2444. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: September 23, 2017 at 03:32 PM (#5537372)
There were literally reports about the Knicks buying him out.

Sounds better than paying Kanter $39 million.
   2445. JC in DC Posted: September 23, 2017 at 03:57 PM (#5537386)
I don't suspect NY will help Kanter on D. I'm not sure who claimed that, but I didn't. I do think, however, the loss of Carmelo allows NY to develop a better D, this gets them younger, Kanter is an asset despite his limitations, even an asset to deal to a contender down the line. NY gets younger, gets rid of a sclerotic situation, and OKC gets a star for their little threesome. I'm skeptical about how Anthony will make OKC a contender, but I think this was a good deal for both teams.
   2446. jmurph Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:25 PM (#5537412)
Kanter is terrible, I don't get the "not bad" side of this one. I understand Carmelo is something of a salary dump at this stage, but Kanter is actually expensive for the next two years (assuming he opts in, which seems safe right now).
   2447. tshipman Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:31 PM (#5537419)
Kanter is terrible, I don't get the "not bad" side of this one. I understand Carmelo is something of a salary dump at this stage, but Kanter is actually expensive for the next two years (assuming he opts in, which seems safe right now).


Kanter's not terrible. He's a player with big strengths and weaknesses. He's one of the best offensive rebounders in the league, and one of the worst PnR defenders.

On a contending team, he's not very valuable because he can be game-planned against pretty easily. Just ... put him in a pick and roll. In the regular season, however, he has real basketball skills and can help you win games. Kyle Singler is terrible. Enes Kanter is just flawed.
   2448. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: September 23, 2017 at 04:53 PM (#5537426)
Kanter is terrible, I don't get the "not bad" side of this one. I understand Carmelo is something of a salary dump at this stage, but Kanter is actually expensive for the next two years (assuming he opts in, which seems safe right now).


simply put: so what? The knicks are going to be ####### awful and they mint money. Lebron isn't walking through that door; Westbrook isn't walking through that door. At least they'll get a few more buckets now and have a fun international culture.
   2449. PJ Martinez Posted: September 23, 2017 at 06:52 PM (#5537471)
"I want to say, please beat the Warriors for me. Please. I'm gonna be watching that game, so please beat the Warriors for me."
   2450. Booey Posted: September 23, 2017 at 10:03 PM (#5537548)
Crazy that 9 all stars from last season - more than a 3rd of them - have now switched teams since then. 4 switched within their conference (Cousins, Paul, Irving, Thomas), and of the 5 that jumped, the West picked up 4 all stars (Butler, George, Millsap, Melo) while only losing 1 (Hayward).
   2451. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: September 24, 2017 at 12:10 AM (#5537607)
Can I ask a really dumb question? I don't follow the NBA closely but how can someone like Kanter be deemed "terrible" as described by JMurph and lots of other people in the know if he can do something on the court that is pretty important really well? He's a big guy who can score efficiently, right? I don't think the knicks will be good at hiding his obvious flaws because they're dumb but doesn't Kanter have decent value because he's a big guy with good hands who can score and that's sort of rare? I guess I think the knicks new gm did as well as he could given the circumstances.
   2452. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: September 24, 2017 at 06:48 AM (#5537626)
Can I ask a really dumb question? I don't follow the NBA closely but how can someone like Kanter be deemed "terrible" as described by JMurph and lots of other people in the know if he can do something on the court that is pretty important really well? He's a big guy who can score efficiently, right? I don't think the knicks will be good at hiding his obvious flaws because they're dumb but doesn't Kanter have decent value because he's a big guy with good hands who can score and that's sort of rare? I guess I think the knicks new gm did as well as he could given the circumstances.

Because whatever value he adds on offense he gives all of it, and more, away on defense. Being a big who is terrible at PnR defense is not a thing that requires the opposing offense to "gameplan" to take advanage of, it's a PnR league.
   2453. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: September 24, 2017 at 12:39 PM (#5537688)
It's hard to find an assessment of Kanter's defense that doesn't have him among the worst in the league - accordingly, he's a below average player (and, as much as I'm no Melo fan, he's better than league average overall and merely "pretty bad" on D).
-----
NNNNOOOOOOOOO
ESPN won't be doing player profiles this year -- they are the primary reason I have an insider account.
Someone, somewhere, please fill this gap.
   2454. tshipman Posted: September 24, 2017 at 02:33 PM (#5537725)
Because whatever value he adds on offense he gives all of it, and more, away on defense. Being a big who is terrible at PnR defense is not a thing that requires the opposing offense to "gameplan" to take advanage of, it's a PnR league.

It's hard to find an assessment of Kanter's defense that doesn't have him among the worst in the league - accordingly, he's a below average player (and, as much as I'm no Melo fan, he's better than league average overall and merely "pretty bad" on D).


Kanter certainly has been a bad defensive big. He's notably bad in space, and when asked to defend the PnR. He's pretty okay at post defense.

Al Jefferson was a bad defensive big until he got to Charlotte. He was bad in space and when asked to defend the PnR. He got to Charlotte and contributed to the 5th best defense in the league.
Greg Monroe, bad defensive big in Detroit, contributes in Milwaukee.
Pau Gasol, bad defensive big, and super old, contributes in San Antonio.


Defense for unathletic bigs, even PnR defense, is much more about scheme than anything else. Willie Cauley-Stein, who has DPOY athleticism, has been a bad defensive big thus far in his career, both by on-off and by overall metrics. Why? Because the scheme is terrible.

Certainly if I were betting, I would say that Kanter is likely to continue to be bad defensively. However, that isn't set in stone, and scheme will matter a lot more. I think that for the Knicks, someone who can suck up possessions, defend post players, and prevent double teams on Porzingis has value.
   2455. Thok Posted: September 24, 2017 at 03:10 PM (#5537734)
Apparently I should have been way more aggressive with trying to do OKC trades during the mock draft. I didn't even try Kanter for Anthony or Oladpio for George.
   2456. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: September 24, 2017 at 04:32 PM (#5537753)
I see your point but am skeptical that the Knicks are that team. Heck, you could argue that sliding Melo to the 4 and putting him on a top tier team might induce more improvement.

Mirotic stays w CHI and not for the QO: 2/27
   2457. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: September 24, 2017 at 08:20 PM (#5537815)
Hasn't Melo vehemently resisted playing the 4 for years and years now?
   2458. PJ Martinez Posted: September 24, 2017 at 08:49 PM (#5537823)
My sense is that "vehemently resisted" is too strong. In his best season, 2012-13, he played power forward full time. But I believe he made it pretty clear he preferred to move back to small forward. That said, he's continued to play the four on occasion. I do suspect he'll be happier to move to the four with Paul George at the three than he would have been with that spot taken by, you know, Kuzminskas or whoever.
   2459. tshipman Posted: September 24, 2017 at 09:14 PM (#5537827)
I see your point but am skeptical that the Knicks are that team. Heck, you could argue that sliding Melo to the 4 and putting him on a top tier team might induce more improvement.


Okay, but that's a tautology--the move is bad because the Knicks are bad. The Knicks are bad, and have been an organization of dysfunction. If you just took a naive POV and said that every move they've made for the last 10 or 20 years has been bad because they're dysfunctional, I wouldn't argue. But sooner or later, they have to claw their way out of it.

I don't hate the move because it's a reasonable pairing for Porzingis, who is all that matters.
   2460. PJ Martinez Posted: September 24, 2017 at 09:53 PM (#5537833)
Wade was bought out by the Bulls. Woj says: "Sources: Cleveland, San Antonio and Miami are leaders for Dwyane Wade post-Bulls buyout. OKC could become factor too."
   2461. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 24, 2017 at 09:54 PM (#5537834)
Dwyane Wade Bought Out by Bulls, According to Reports
ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski also reported on the buyout, adding that in a post-Bulls buyout, the Cleveland Cavaliers, San Antonio Spurs and Miami Heat are early favorites to land his services -- with burgeoning Western Conference power Oklahoma City Thunder a dark horse candidate for his services.
   2462. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: September 24, 2017 at 10:01 PM (#5537835)
Oh yeah, Dwyane Wade, now THERE'S a guy who definitely will have no problem standing around watching Russell Westbrook play AND will help OKC not suck at defense. Great fit there.

I'm struggling to imagine what the Spurs could want him for, I admit.
   2463. Tin Angel Posted: September 24, 2017 at 11:44 PM (#5537859)
I'm struggling to imagine what the Spurs could want him for, I admit.


I don't get the Miami thing either...I thought when he left there was a lot of bad blood between him and Riley.
   2464. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 12:16 AM (#5537876)
I don't get the Miami thing either...I thought when he left there was a lot of bad blood between him and Riley.

He recently re-enrolled his kids in school there, IIRC. Shouts to Denny Neagle.
   2465. stevegamer Posted: September 25, 2017 at 12:47 AM (#5537884)
I'm struggling to imagine what the Spurs could want him for, I admit.


I can easily see it from Wade's side:

1. Spurs are a title contender. Really, they are. Maybe the Rockets or Thunder are the #2 in the West, but you have to think the Spurs looking like a preseason favorite to be a 4 seed, at worst. If you are the top 4, anything's possible.

2. Pop is a ridiculously good coach, and it's a popular place to go late in your career.

3. No state income taxes in Texas.

I'd trust Popovich to figure out a way to make Wade help the team. He's way smarter than I am at basketball.
   2466. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 25, 2017 at 09:12 AM (#5537953)
Derek Bodner‏ @DerekBodnerNBA
#sixers just sent out their training camp roster, which includes ... Emeka Okafor?
   2467. TFTIO sings Medieval Agrarian History Posted: September 25, 2017 at 09:41 AM (#5537975)
Cornering the market on Okafors. It's the new tanking.
   2468. jmurph Posted: September 25, 2017 at 10:12 AM (#5538004)
Seems like we mostly focused on the Knicks side of the trade above, so what do people think about the Melo fit for OKC?
   2469. TFTIO sings Medieval Agrarian History Posted: September 25, 2017 at 10:20 AM (#5538012)
Seems like we mostly focused on the Knicks side of the trade above, so what do people think about the Melo fit for OKC?

I wonder how well he's going to do next to Westbrook. That team has a whiff of paper tiger to it to me.
   2470. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: September 25, 2017 at 10:24 AM (#5538021)
Seems like we mostly focused on the Knicks side of the trade above, so what do people think about the Melo fit for OKC?

I like it. It gives them more scoring and shooting. I mean, it's not a perfect fit like an all-NBA player would be, but it makes them better. I'd be pretty surprised if they were better than San Antonio, though.
   2471. jmurph Posted: September 25, 2017 at 10:31 AM (#5538032)
I'm torn between those two sentiments (2469 and 2470). They've definitely solved their issue of getting basically no scoring from anyone but Westbrook- it should be easy to have at least one of Westbrook/George/Carmelo on the floor at all times.

So... Westbrook/Roberson/George/Carmelo/Adams? Is Donovan telling Carmelo and George that Roberson is the 4, just to soothe their egos? I feel like people are going to expect that team to be great defensively, but I'm not sure. We'll see if George gets it back, I guess, that looks like the key to me. And George and Carmelo are used to having a lot of time on the ball. It will be interesting, that's for sure, I'm looking forward to it.

I'd be pretty surprised if they were better than San Antonio, though.

I basically hate everything they've done all summer. One of these years they're going to fall back to the pack, right? (Maybe not?) Might as well be this year.
   2472. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 25, 2017 at 10:33 AM (#5538034)
I don't think Melo is very good anymore so I don't think this is all that meaningful for OKC. In a broader sense, I wonder what OKC's long term plan is. They must already be under the assumption they can't keep George because if Westbrook signs the supermax and Anthony opts in to his final year, they will be over the tax even before trying to re-sign George and I can't imagine they will pay that massive a luxury tax bill. From the Knicks side, I think this could be addition by subtraction and that Hornacek is finally free to coach the team free from the rock and the hard place that was Phil Jackson and Carmelo Anthony.

   2473. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: September 25, 2017 at 11:12 AM (#5538109)
I don't love Wade anymore as a player, but he has some uses. It'd be hard to give him big minutes, but if you're wondering why the Spurs would want/need him, I'd point to the Golden State Game 1 when Leonard after Leonard got hurt. Or hell, the Memphis series. They don't have a lot of guys that can go get points, that was easily their biggest weakness last year.
   2474. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 25, 2017 at 11:19 AM (#5538128)
Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
Ben Simmons on his health. "I'm ready to go. 100%. Ready to play." #sixers
   2475. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 11:21 AM (#5538134)
Ben Simmons on his health. "I'm ready to go. 100%. Ready to play."


Best shape of his life!
   2476. Norcan Posted: September 25, 2017 at 11:21 AM (#5538136)
Is Donovan telling Carmelo and George that Roberson is the 4, just to soothe their egos?


Why would their egos need soothing? Carmelo actually has played the 4 for a long stretch of time in that he's guarded typical 4s. I don't remember him making a row about it like other SFs have at the prospect of playing the 4. George I'd imagine is still going to be out on the perimeter so there's no change for him. Further, I don't think they're freaking idiots.
   2477. jmurph Posted: September 25, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5538176)
Why would their egos need soothing? Carmelo actually has played the 4 for a long stretch of time in that he's guarded typical 4s. I don't remember him making a row about it like other SFs have at the prospect of playing the 4. George I'd imagine is still going to be out on the perimeter so there's no change for him. Further, I don't think they're freaking idiots.

(I was kidding about the Donovan part) Sorting through his lineup numbers at BBRef, 2012-13 looks like the only year that his most played lineup involved Melo playing the 4. I'm perhaps jumping to conclusions, but it seems like if he wanted it to happen it would have happened more, since people have been screaming about it for years.

   2478. Optimistic Moses Taylor, optimist Posted: September 25, 2017 at 11:44 AM (#5538186)
Sounds like Wade is giving back between $8-10mil in the buyout, which is huge. None of the teams that want him/he wants can give him enough money to make up for what he gave up. So in a way, I almost am impressed he gave that much up. Keeping me from that is that now he essentially got $40+mil for one mediocre year in Chicago.

Bulls now have space to absorb a bad contract for a pick, we'll see what happens there as the season goes on.

I'll be shocked if he goes anywhere besides the Cavs; going there has to be his best shot at getting to the Finals. I don't like his fit on that team though.
   2479. Optimistic Moses Taylor, optimist Posted: September 25, 2017 at 11:50 AM (#5538201)
I don't think Melo is very good anymore

Melo is still a good player, and in the right situation, would be a positive, IMO. Playing more off the ball should help him, and as others have pointed out, he's a decent spot up shooter. He's a talented player, and while he's not made things easier for himself through the years, I think him accepting a deal to OKC shows he at least some self-awareness and I think that's the difference on whether or not he'll help them. Having said that, yeah, that team is combustible and I don't know if Donovan is the right coach/personality to make those pieces fit together optimally.

I wouldn't say they're better than the Spurs (or Rockets), but I'm not totally convinced they're worse either. The Spurs get more benefit of the doubt because of Pops/their history (and I think Kawhi is the best overall player on any of those teams), but I think they have the lowest ceiling of the 3 (IOW, we pretty much know how good they can be and I don't see some hidden extra level of greatness in there that there just might be in Houston or OKC because of the number of good to great talents).
   2480. Optimistic Moses Taylor, optimist Posted: September 25, 2017 at 01:06 PM (#5538352)
Derek Bodner‏ @DerekBodnerNBA

Amir Johnson on gaining weight as a young player. "I think Rasheed Wallace told me to drink beer once to gain weight." #sixers
11:13 AM - 25 Sep 2017
   2481. Optimistic Moses Taylor, optimist Posted: September 25, 2017 at 01:13 PM (#5538369)
Cleveland Cavaliers point guard Isaiah Thomas, who is recovering from an injured right hip, is expected to return by January, the team announced on Monday.

Thomas has "successfully continued with the rehabilitation process related to his right hip impingement," the release said. The team said it would provide updates as needed after the start of the regular season.

“It’s great news, seeing the way he’s progressed the last few weeks," Cavs coach Ty Lue said at the team's media day.

It's the first time the Cavaliers have provided a public timeline regarding Thomas's hip. They were evasive at the team's introductory press conference following the blockbuster Kyrie Irving trade that landed Thomas from the Boston Celtics. Thomas's injury is the reason the trade was initially held up in the first place.
   2482. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 25, 2017 at 01:15 PM (#5538373)
Isaiah Thomas is supposed to be back by January, according the the Cavs. If you're cynical, you'd say the Cavs have reason to push an optimistic time table for his return. But I think that's probably accurate since he's not going to have surgery and he's been playing through the pain of his hip for years already. I hope he can do enough to get paid but I think that ship has sailed for him, unfortunately. We all want him to get paid, but would you want your team to be the one to write the check?

Also, not to get political, and I won't respond to any responses to this so anyone looking for an argument will be talking with themselves, but I'm pretty happy to be a Warriors fan today.
   2483. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: September 25, 2017 at 01:16 PM (#5538375)
Returning by January is *good* news/best case scenario? Huh, I hadn't seen anything so explicitly call out the definitive missing of a big chunk of the season.
   2484. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 25, 2017 at 01:18 PM (#5538379)
Returning by January is *good* news/best case scenario? Huh, I hadn't seen anything so explicitly call out the definitive missing of a big chunk of the season.

I think that's the best case scenario. If he's really back by January, that gives him plenty of time to integrate and get in shape for the playoffs, and it also gives Derek Rose time to see if he can carve out a role on the team.
   2485. aberg Posted: September 25, 2017 at 01:29 PM (#5538398)
RE Wiggins- I agree with the post above that his paths to being a max player are 3pt improvement, playmaking improvement, or defensive improvement. Given his progress to date, I don't think the 3pt improvement is an outlandish bet (he should also get easier looks playing with Butler). The playmaking improvement seems like a long shot because he is not an elite ball-handler and he lacks great court vision. I hold out more hope for him becoming a good defender because the conditions of his first three years have done more harm than good. He has played for 3 coaches in 3 years, one of whom actively diminished him as a player. He played a ton of minutes next to Zach Lavine, which was one of the worst defensive wing pairings imaginable and put him behind the 8-ball constantly. I don't agree with the conclusion that he has a poor defensive temperament; I think the "disengagement" has been a symptom of not knowing what to do as things are breaking down, and that is fixable. As someone mentioned in reference to Kanter, good defense is a team activity, and my opinion is that he can be part of a good team defense.

RE Melo- I don't think he's worth much at this point, but I'm in the camp that thinks that Kanter is less than nothing, so even if Melo is just average, it probably helps OKC. It also aligns their rotation more with the small-ball contenders in their conference, which is probably just an accidental outcome of the talent accumulation. Two other things to watch with OKC- their offensive rebounding was a bit part of their identity last year, and they will have to pivot away from that offensively. Russ was obviously going to have to be more discerning with his approach anyway, but I will be watching to see how their transition game changes with it. Second, their bench is pretty horific. After PatPat, they're basically crossing their fingers on Abrines.

RE Wade- I think he fits with the Cavs in the sense that they need to accumulate as much talent on the wing as possible to throw at GS. If the Finals rotation next to Lebron includes Crowder, Wade, JR, and Korver, those are minutes they don't have to give to RJ or Shumpert (or Jeff Green). The argument for the Spurs is pretty similar- they just need another good player. They look to have quite a bit less talent than they have had in several years. As always, I will bet on Pop, but I'm less comfortable doing so than I have been in other seasons.
   2486. cmd600 Posted: September 25, 2017 at 01:38 PM (#5538412)
If you're cynical, you'd say the Cavs have reason to push an optimistic time table for his return.


The Cavs have reason to push an accurate timetable, or be completely vague if they don't have one. Saying that he'll be back in January, and then him not being ready by then, is going to go over really really poorly.
   2487. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 25, 2017 at 01:45 PM (#5538424)
Jessica Camerato @JCameratoCSN
Jahlil Okafor said he misses Sausage McGriddles from McDonald's since going vegan.
Keith Pompey @PompeyOnSixers
.@NStauskas11 took up pilates this summer.
Keith Pompey‏ @PompeyOnSixers
Embiid "I'll be honest, I don't think I'll play 82 games."
   2488. Fourth True Outcome Posted: September 25, 2017 at 01:56 PM (#5538443)
Somehow Jahlil Okafor going vegan makes Damian Lillard's newfound veganism much more ominous.
   2489. jmurph Posted: September 25, 2017 at 01:57 PM (#5538446)
Somehow Jahlil Okafor going vegan makes Damian Lillard's newfound veganism much more ominous.

Seems like a transparent attempt to curry favor with Lillard, at which point Okafor will eat him.
   2490. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:04 PM (#5538458)
say what you want, but okafor has put in a ton of work this summer and he looks pretty great.

here's a good video of him training and it's ridiculous how much faster he's moving compared to last year.
   2491. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:05 PM (#5538459)
The Cavs have reason to push an accurate timetable, or be completely vague if they don't have one. Saying that he'll be back in January, and then him not being ready by then, is going to go over really really poorly.

Or, they don't give a timetable now and it goes over poorly. It seems to be Gilbert is invested on making it look like the Cavs "won" the trade and pushing the idea he's only out half the season helps in that cause. That's if you're cynical. Like I said, I think it's probably an accurate target because IT is a goddam warrior.
   2492. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:12 PM (#5538471)
say what you want, but okafor has put in a ton of work this summer and he looks pretty great.

here's a good video of him training and it's ridiculous how much faster he's moving compared to last year.


That didn't look to be a speed drill, mind you, but I don't think he was moving fast at all there. I could do that faster than he did.
   2493. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:14 PM (#5538473)
That didn't look to be a speed drill, mind you, but I don't think he was moving fast at all there. I could do that faster than he did.

Are you accusing STIGGLES of over-hyping a 76er? Not cool, Spicey, not cool at all.
   2494. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:15 PM (#5538478)
That didn't look to be a speed drill, mind you, but I don't think he was moving fast at all there. I could do that faster than he did.
(that's the joke)
   2495. jmurph Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:16 PM (#5538480)
Okafor is the... 4th center in the rotation? I can't imagine they're planning to give him a lot of minutes.
   2496. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:19 PM (#5538484)
I think Okafor will get traded to the Spurs for Lauvergne and a conditional second round pick and then become an all star within 3 years.
   2497. cmd600 Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:21 PM (#5538487)
Or, they don't give a timetable now and it goes over poorly.


I'm not seeing how that goes over poorly. They just let all the dust settle on the reaction to Thomas being more hurt than initially thought. Status quo had become that he's going to miss an undetermined amount of time and we'll all just have to be patient. Providing too optimistic a timeline is only going to feed into the idea that the Cavs got screwed over if he doesn't hit it. Gilbert can't "win" the trade until the Cavs beat the Celtics in the playoffs. No one buys that he won the trade by saying that Thomas will be back in January, they will buy it if Thomas eventually comes back and plays well in the playoffs.
   2498. Optimistic Moses Taylor, optimist Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5538494)
Lue saying it's "great news" that he'll be back in January is a red flag to me. Of what, I'm not sure.
   2499. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:31 PM (#5538579)
Media day's almost got me convinced my team won't be terrible.
   2500. jmurph Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:39 PM (#5538586)
flip
Page 25 of 29 pages ‹ First  < 23 24 25 26 27 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
HowardMegdal
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogLCS OMNICHATTER for October 17, 2017
(309 - 11:59pm, Oct 17)
Last: Voodoo

NewsblogOT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread
(290 - 11:55pm, Oct 17)
Last: tshipman

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-17-2017
(9 - 11:47pm, Oct 17)
Last: KJOK

NewsblogOTP 16 October 2017: Sorry, Yankee fans: Trump’s claim that he can ensure victory simply isn’t true
(780 - 11:46pm, Oct 17)
Last: Shredder

NewsblogYankees even ALCS with late rally vs. Astros | MLB.com
(3 - 11:39pm, Oct 17)
Last: ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick

NewsblogThe Cubs could really use 2016 Javier Baez right about now - Chicago Cubs Blog- ESPN
(40 - 10:59pm, Oct 17)
Last: Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant

NewsblogOT Gaming: October 2015
(682 - 10:31pm, Oct 17)
Last: PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina

NewsblogPerrotto: Managerial Rumors and Rumblings
(18 - 8:50pm, Oct 17)
Last: PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina

NewsblogAstros' Lance McCullers will start Game 4 of ALCS - Houston Chronicle
(36 - 8:10pm, Oct 17)
Last: Walt Davis

Gonfalon CubsFive minute Los Angeles Dodgers Preview
(49 - 7:24pm, Oct 17)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogEXPANSION COULD TRIGGER REALIGNMENT, LONGER POSTSEASON
(106 - 6:39pm, Oct 17)
Last: catomi01

NewsblogOT: New Season August 2017 Soccer Thread
(1146 - 5:40pm, Oct 17)
Last: Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB)

NewsblogfrJohn Manuel - Leaves BA and Joins the Twins Organization
(16 - 5:20pm, Oct 17)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogNick Cafardo: Brian Cashman and the Yankees followed the Red Sox’ blueprint — and may have done it better
(70 - 5:14pm, Oct 17)
Last: jmurph

NewsblogOT - 2017 NFL thread
(138 - 5:13pm, Oct 17)
Last: Dog on the sidewalk

Page rendered in 0.7742 seconds
47 querie(s) executed