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Wednesday, June 28, 2017

OT-NBA off season thread


I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none that bothered to submit a monthly thread for nearly 4 months as to avoid detracting from what this site is really about: ... white privilege

RollingWave Posted: June 28, 2017 at 07:45 AM | 2859 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off topic

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   2501. jmurph Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:40 PM (#5538587)
Media day's almost got me convinced my team won't be terrible.

I love that the NBA took no break this year, it's so great. I want games now!
   2502. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:49 PM (#5538597)
I love that the NBA took no break this year, it's so great. I want games now!

Me, too. The first 3 days you get Celtics at Cavs, Rockets at Warriors, Knicks at OKC and Wolves at Spurs.
   2503. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:58 PM (#5538673)
Cody Westerlund‏ @CodyWesterlund

Fred Hoiberg calls Doug Collins a "great resource" and adds in a 2-hour meeting, Collins talked for 1 hour, 55 minutes of it.
3:01 PM - 25 Sep 2017


That's not a meeting.

Mike McGraw‏ @McGrawDHBulls 39m39 minutes ago

LaVine claims he's running faster and jumping higher than pre-injury already. #Bulls

   2504. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 05:11 PM (#5538679)
LaVine claims he's running faster and jumping higher than pre-injury already. #Bulls


Uh ... that was never an issue with Zach. Still I wish him and the Bulls the best, LaVine has amazing physical ability and has shown amazing work ethic and ability to get better. If he makes the trade look great for the Bulls, more power to him. I have always liked him and cheer for him (And I still think there is a fair chance he has a better career than Wiggins).
   2505. TFTIO sings Medieval Agrarian History Posted: September 25, 2017 at 07:29 PM (#5538766)
LaVine always seemed like a good egg, and a very hard worker, and he's come quite a distance as a player. I always preferred Wiggins, but that was more aesthetic than anything else. I wish LaVine well in Chicago -- I hope he continues to develop and then explodes.
   2506. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: September 25, 2017 at 07:38 PM (#5538771)
I wish LaVine well in Chicago -- I hope he continues to develop and then explodes.


Isn't that basically what he did in Minnesota?
   2507. TFTIO sings Medieval Agrarian History Posted: September 25, 2017 at 07:41 PM (#5538773)
Well, less his knee exploding. I sort of want him to turbocharge his development and become one of the 10 best players in the league, even if it is for the Bulls.
   2508. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: September 26, 2017 at 10:25 AM (#5539025)
It's college ball, but Chuck Person is caught up in it, so: ten are facing federal corruption, bribery, etc... charges, including 4 college assistants.
   2509. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 26, 2017 at 11:17 AM (#5539103)
Interestingly enough, all that talk about rebuilds taking six or seven years according to the Bulls’ research isn’t that accurate anymore. Funny how that works when you’re trying to sell tickets and keep jobs.

“I think I said it can [take that long],” Forman said. “Historically you look at it and it can. But there are situations where it’s been much quicker. And that goes back to the point we mentioned at the start: In our opinion, I think we have a leg up. We’re not starting at ground zero because of the three young core pieces we got in the trade and some of the young players we have here. We need them to grow and develop. But we have our draft assets as far as first-round picks into the future. And then having (financial) flexibility. So we would never put a timeline on it. But those things have set the course and given us a head start as we head down that road.”


My god I hate the Bulls FO so much. They've been talking about "financial flexibility" as an asset for them since before The Decision 1.0.
   2510. aberg Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:00 PM (#5539180)
Chuck Person is caught up in it


Caught up in it? How so? Might one say he's a Person of interest?

I'll show myself out.
   2511. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:15 PM (#5539200)
Adrian Wojnarowski‏ @wojespn 9m9 minutes ago

Dwyane Wade is nearing a commitment to sign with Cleveland and could finalize decision as soon as Wednesday, league sources tell ESPN.
   2512. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:30 PM (#5539223)
If the Cavs flip that Nets pick for someone like Cousins or Gasol, then shit gets real. All Wade does is give the Warriors another guy to attack. I'm a bit bummed Melo didn't hold out for a trade to the Cavs, though. It would have been fun to see those 3 guys get to play together. An Olajuwon, Barkley, Drexler vibe for these crazy times.
   2513. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:43 PM (#5539247)

The TV skit portrayed the game as 5-on-5, half court. In reality, it was the Murphy brothers and their uncle, Ray, against Prince, his brother, Duane, and Free.

Murphy’s crew changed into athletic gear. And Prince’s crew?

“Yes, it’s true, we had on ‘blouses,’ and frilly shirts,” Free said. “The same clothes we had at the club. Prince played in 6-inch heels!”

And after the game?

“It was just like they showed on TV,” Free said. “His chef served us blueberry pancakes, for real!”

link
   2514. Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:53 PM (#5539258)
[2513] I was really hoping the Free was World B. Free, and was sad to find out it wasn't. Still, a great story.
   2515. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 26, 2017 at 01:09 PM (#5539270)
It's college ball, but Chuck Person is caught up in it, so: ten are facing federal corruption, bribery, etc... charges, including 4 college assistants.
this has been going on since back in the 70s. what do you think nike was buying when they gave john thompson hundreds of thousands of dollars so that georgetown would wear their sneakers and jerseys?

i'm curious at how this investigation got started. sure, there appears to have been crimes committed, but it strikes me as odd that any of these crimes are egregious enough to get onto the FBI's radar. my guess would be that some coach who lost a recruit has a friend or brother who works at the FBI. either that, or someone got caught with a prostitute or drugs and started talking to get the charges reduced or dropped.

   2516. DCA Posted: September 26, 2017 at 01:54 PM (#5539315)
[2514] I was about to click on the link just to see if that was the case!
   2517. jmurph Posted: September 26, 2017 at 02:20 PM (#5539351)
“I’ve seen a guy that played for that (Pacers) organization, gave that organization everything they had, or everything he had, and was essentially traded to the dogs. And I’m speaking on Danny Granger, who was one of the better players in Pacers history,” said George in USA TODAY Sports’ A to Z podcast. “And at the time, they traded him to the Philadelphia 76ers. And this was a guy that was battling injuries, and that’s where you send him? The guy is trying to get back on his feet, trying to work back to this league, (and) you send him to the Philadelphia Sixers?”

   2518. smileyy Posted: September 26, 2017 at 04:13 PM (#5539449)
Re: [2508] and the NCAA bribery charges:

There's a possibility Louisville faces the so-called "death penalty" for violations within 5 years of the last ones and while on probation. I doubt the NCAA would go that far, but I doubt Pitino survives and Louisville will hit hard.

My team, Xavier, is potentially connected through former assistant coach Book Richardson, who was Xavier's most successful recruiter during Sean Miller's tenure.
   2519. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: September 26, 2017 at 04:52 PM (#5539473)
I think that Richardson has already been axed
   2520. Famous Original Joe C Posted: September 26, 2017 at 05:17 PM (#5539487)
We can all agree Wade doesn't move the needle on the Cavs in any meaningful way and if anything could hurt them against the elite teams, right?
   2521. cmd600 Posted: September 26, 2017 at 05:26 PM (#5539494)
We can all agree Wade doesn't move the needle on the Cavs in any meaningful way and if anything could hurt them against the elite teams, right?


I like Wade as a 15 minute a night guy who keeps the Cavs offense from tripping over its own shoelaces whenever Lebron leaves the court. I will not be enjoying him and Thomas playing 30+ minutes in the Finals against Curry and Thompson.
   2522. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: September 26, 2017 at 07:12 PM (#5539543)
I will not be enjoying him and Thomas playing 30+ minutes in the Finals against Curry and Thompson


Not if they can't beat the Celtics, you won't.

(I don't know about all the rest of you, but once again, I am FEELING that sweet, sweet preseason optimism)
   2523. TFTIO sings Medieval Agrarian History Posted: September 26, 2017 at 07:50 PM (#5539556)
(I don't know about all the rest of you, but once again, I am FEELING that sweet, sweet preseason optimism)

I'm starting to fear that the wheels will come off the Thibs train this season. I feel for no good reason that his particular insights spread very quickly to other teams, and yet he is stuck on a Derrick Rose offense.
   2524. cmd600 Posted: September 26, 2017 at 09:37 PM (#5539655)
Not if they can't beat the Celtics, you won't.


Heh. Boston has felt the wrath of angry Lebron a couple times. One would think you guys would know whats in store for you and your shiny new toy.
   2525. Chicago Joe Posted: September 27, 2017 at 12:07 AM (#5539820)
'm curious at how this investigation got started. sure, there appears to have been crimes committed, but it strikes me as odd that any of these crimes are egregious enough to get onto the FBI's radar. my guess would be that some coach who lost a recruit has a friend or brother who works at the FBI. either that, or someone got caught with a prostitute or drugs and started talking to get the charges reduced or dropped.


Patient Zero is Marty Blazer. Damned Pennsylvanians
   2526. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 27, 2017 at 01:13 AM (#5539834)
Heh. Boston has felt the wrath of angry Lebron a couple times. One would think you guys would know whats in store for you and your shiny new toy.

Eh, they are what 2-4 in the playoffs against him? They won the 2 series where they were relatively close in terms of talent, and lost the 4 where the Heat/Cavs teams were prohibitively better. Big whoop. It will likely come down to which team has the better talent (and possibly coaching) again.

Obviously having LeBron is a big step in that direction, which is why he is 4-2 against the Celtics to begin with. But this is probably the Celtics team with the best chance of actually being better than a LeBron team in the last 7 years or so.
   2527. cmd600 Posted: September 27, 2017 at 01:44 AM (#5539836)
they are what 2-4 in the playoffs against him?


Playoff series specifically against the Celtics, and especially pre-Miami, is not really the measure of angry Lebron.

But I would be interested in learning which of Ilgauskas, Szczerbiak, West and Gibson you would consider relatively close to the lesser four of Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Rondo, and Perkins.
   2528. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 27, 2017 at 02:30 AM (#5539839)
Playoff series specifically against the Celtics, and especially pre-Miami, is not really the measure of angry Lebron.

Sooo the Celtics haven't really felt the wrath of angry LeBron? Or only in the series you think validates your point? If you are narrowing it down to series where the LeBrons clearly outmatched the Celtics, does it really matter?

But I would be interested in learning which of Ilgauskas, Szczerbiak, West and Gibson you would consider relatively close to the lesser four of Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Rondo, and Perkins.

Yes, I should have said "where they were better or relatively close". I was writing a quick 2 minute post, excuse me for not breaking everything down to minute detail. The 08 Celtics were a beast and clearly better than the Cavs. The 10 Celtics were probably worse, but it's arguable and close. Every other LeBron team has been significantly better.
   2529. jmurph Posted: September 27, 2017 at 09:32 AM (#5539915)
For the record, before tship and hombre swoop in and start accusing all Celtics fans of thinking LeBron doesn't own a majority share of the team: LEBRON OWNS A MAJORITY SHARE OF THE CELTICS.
   2530. jmurph Posted: September 27, 2017 at 09:34 AM (#5539917)
We can all agree Wade doesn't move the needle on the Cavs in any meaningful way and if anything could hurt them against the elite teams, right?

This was my initial response but, eh, I mean he's on the minimum, right? He certainly beats whatever else they could have got for that. I agree with cmd: he'll provide offensive options outside of LeBron, which they will be lacking until Isaiah gets back. I also don't love him against the Warriors, but I could see him helping them get there, at least a bit.
   2531. Fourth True Outcome Posted: September 27, 2017 at 11:26 AM (#5540007)
Yeah, for all that Dwyane Wade isn't who he used to be, he's a useful guard on a team that has been sunk by its lack of depth. (Well, that and the simple fact that the Warriors are too damn good. But if LeBron is going to steal another title he needs his team to be in shouting distance.) If Wade is playing 35 minutes a game come May, the Cavs are in trouble. If he is giving them a good 15-20 and helping the scoring when LeBron is sitting, say, this will be a good pickup.
   2532. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 27, 2017 at 11:55 AM (#5540047)
Kent Taylor‏ @KentTaylorWAVE 32m32 minutes ago

According to sources, Tom Jurich was asked to fire Rick Pitino, refused, both were fired


That's a pretty dumb hill to die on.
   2533. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 27, 2017 at 12:21 PM (#5540090)
   2534. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 27, 2017 at 12:51 PM (#5540133)
Dick Vitale is shocked, shocked I tell you! College basketball people are the biggest phonies in sports this side of FIFA or college football. The funny thing is, Kevin Durant dropped this bomb already on Bill Simmons' podcast earlier this summer but the media was so intent on making it a "Kevin Durant disses Steph Curry's shoes story!" they missed the point of Durant's comments. It wasn't that kids hate Under Armour but they don't want to go to schools sponsored by Under Armour because they're being funneled to schools sponsored by Nike and Adidas. He was making that point in the context of a question about why he didn't consider Maryland.
   2535. aberg Posted: September 27, 2017 at 02:18 PM (#5540262)
they don't want to go to schools sponsored by Under Armour because they're being funneled to schools sponsored by Nike and Adidas


There's a big difference between "go to Louisville and it will help build a foundation for a business relationship down the road" and "go to Louisville and we will give you a check for $150,000 right now." You could probably argue that both are immoral to do to a teenager and inequitable in a game that is supposed to be on a level playing field, but they are clearly not equivalent legally.
   2536. JC in DC Posted: September 27, 2017 at 02:30 PM (#5540274)
It's quite the moral descent from the time when a young black athlete got his shoes bought by the local drug dealers. [btw: that's a Hoop Dreams reference] I'm outraged.

In all seriousness, colleges/universities are unsustainable as it is. Sports in colleges is probably as well (at least at DI levels). The pro leagues should just pop the "amateur" stuff away entirely and find a different model.
   2537. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 27, 2017 at 02:32 PM (#5540276)
College basketball people are the biggest phonies in sports this side of FIFA or college football.


The Olympics are hurt you think anyone but perhaps FIFA is a bigger phony than they are. If you pass them enough money though, they will forgive you and award your city an Olympic games.
   2538. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 27, 2017 at 02:39 PM (#5540285)
There's a big difference between "go to Louisville and it will help build a foundation for a business relationship down the road" and "go to Louisville and we will give you a check for $150,000 right now." You could probably argue that both are immoral to do to a teenager and inequitable in a game that is supposed to be on a level playing field, but they are clearly not equivalent legally.

I'm not a lawyer so I can't comment on your last point. Is a verbal contract to pay someone later really that different legally than an immediate payment? Morally, I think it's the same. Really, I wouldn't be shocked by anything when it comes to college basketball or football. There's a lot of money at stake and there's a market for players but not a legal one. Point guards are the new cocaine! (If cocaine wasn't still the new cocaine. Or is cocaine the new point guards? I get confused.)
   2539. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 27, 2017 at 02:40 PM (#5540287)
There's a big difference between "go to Louisville and it will help build a foundation for a business relationship down the road" and "go to Louisville and we will give you a check for $150,000 right now." You could probably argue that both are immoral to do to a teenager and inequitable in a game that is supposed to be on a level playing field, but they are clearly not equivalent legally.
that distinction is a fig leaf.

sure, most shoe companies don't write checks to teenagers....but they do write checks to those teenagers' coaches and family members and "advisers" for the same purpose. i'd say they were cutting out the middlemen, but most of the guys who got indicted are middlemen. it's more like 4 middlemen cut out the 5th.


i think this falls under the auspices of "defining deviancy down". there's so much shady #### in recruiting, that something like this, something that appears to be blatantly illegal, barely registers as immoral. i think the only way to clean it up is for the NCAA to start ruling significant percentages of AAU participants ineligible, but that's a nose/face/spite quandary.
   2540. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 27, 2017 at 02:44 PM (#5540290)
NBA news! JaMychal Green finally re-signs with the Grizz. Chandler Parsons feels great! The Hawks are REDUCING their seating capacity. Atlanta is just not a good NBA city, is it?
   2541. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: September 27, 2017 at 02:45 PM (#5540292)
Griz are signing J.Green to a 2/17+m deal.

Onuaku suggested that he left for the NBA when he did in part because of all the stuff swirling around the Louisville program.
   2542. JC in DC Posted: September 27, 2017 at 02:45 PM (#5540293)
Is this investigation supposed to grow? Can we assume Nike and UA trails are also being investigated? If not, isn't the most likely scenario some people get fired, the NCAA pledges to do better, and we all start filling out our March Madness brackets? In my heart, I'd burn it all down: basketball and football, perhaps lax as well. But I'd torch it all. Professional sports and academics do not mix.
   2543. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: September 27, 2017 at 02:46 PM (#5540294)
Coke to Shooty!
No, ATL isn't. Phillips will now be the smallest arena in the league.
I think Wade can help Cleveland, but that's dependent on who they pair him with and his willingness to be a backup.
   2544. JC in DC Posted: September 27, 2017 at 02:46 PM (#5540295)
Atlanta's not a really good sports city, is it?
   2545. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 27, 2017 at 03:23 PM (#5540322)
Is this investigation supposed to grow? Can we assume Nike and UA trails are also being investigated?

Yes:
Darren Heitner‏ @DarrenHeitner 2h2 hours ago

Sources: Employees of Nike's EYBL grassroots division, along with documents, have been subpoenaed by FBI in furtherance of investigation


I'm sure tons of colleges not directly involved now are feeling tons of pressure and probably waiting for the next shoe to drop; Illinois (Nike school) just hired Underwood away from OkSt, and the indicted ass't there worked with Underwood at multiple stops (they wanted to bring him to UI, but he stayed); the UofL ass't used to work at Indiana, etc, etc.
   2546. jmurph Posted: September 27, 2017 at 03:41 PM (#5540334)
So are we a few years from the NBDL being a much more fully formed minor league, with the advent of the two-way contract? It seems like it's there for the taking, if the NBA wants it, though the argument that the NCAA serves as a free minor league is fairly compelling, too. But, and I've put about 1 minute of thought into this so it's possibly dumb, add a 3rd and 4th round to the draft (same rules as the 2nd, no contract guarantees), expand the number of two-way contracts teams are allowed to carry, eliminate the age minimum, and we're there. Is that necessarily prohibitively more expensive than the current model?
   2547. TFTIO sings Medieval Agrarian History Posted: September 27, 2017 at 04:50 PM (#5540368)
Is that necessarily prohibitively more expensive than the current model?

Depends on if that's sufficient. It certainly seems that the marketing aspect of the NCAA is less significant now than it's been in recent memory. If the NBA wanted to get that stuff back, the equation changes.
   2548. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 27, 2017 at 04:51 PM (#5540370)
Derek Bodner‏ @DerekBodnerNBA
Markelle Fultz on sharing court with Ben Simmons "It's unpredictable. I feel sorry for the teams that are going to have to go against that."
(note: embiid isn't even on the court yet)
Derek Bodner‏ @DerekBodnerNBA
#sixers also have the 5th best odds (20/1) to win the Eastern Conference, per Bovada.
   2549. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 27, 2017 at 04:58 PM (#5540374)
(note: embiid isn't even on the court yet)

That's the subtitle to the eventual book that'll be written about these Sixers.
   2550. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 27, 2017 at 05:00 PM (#5540376)
Primey for #2549.
   2551. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 27, 2017 at 05:02 PM (#5540380)
That's the subtitle to the eventual book that'll be written about these Sixers.
(that's the joke)
   2552. billyshears Posted: September 27, 2017 at 05:42 PM (#5540419)
There's a big difference between "go to Louisville and it will help build a foundation for a business relationship down the road" and "go to Louisville and we will give you a check for $150,000 right now." You could probably argue that both are immoral to do to a teenager and inequitable in a game that is supposed to be on a level playing field, but they are clearly not equivalent legally.


I'm not a lawyer so I can't comment on your last point. Is a verbal contract to pay someone later really that different legally than an immediate payment? Morally, I think it's the same. Really, I wouldn't be shocked by anything when it comes to college basketball or football. There's a lot of money at stake and there's a market for players but not a legal one. Point guards are the new cocaine! (If cocaine wasn't still the new cocaine. Or is cocaine the new point guards? I get confused.)

It's been a long while since contract law, but I wouldn't think the former qualifies as being a sufficiently specific form of consideration to form the basis of a contract, and I would imagine the same holds true as far as its basis as inducement for a charge of bribery.

Edit: And by "the former", I mean the specific given example in the prior quote.
   2553. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 27, 2017 at 08:37 PM (#5540544)
this is impressive
   2554. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 27, 2017 at 09:25 PM (#5540620)
this is good:

Arnovitz: As one person inside the locker room told me, “Do you know how hard it is to make Dennis Schröeder the good guy in an internecine warfare between players?” Do you know how hard it is to have a locker room pro-Dennis in terms of just mood and personality? And, you know, that lasted two or three good weeks and then Dwight was just kvetching about not getting the ball.

   2555. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 27, 2017 at 09:45 PM (#5540651)
this is pretty much in line with my thoughts:
The feds are doing what the NCAA has failed and refused to do. By constantly combatting the notion that college athletes in these increasingly lucrative sports deserve to be recognized as paid professionals, the NCAA simultaneously helped create and outlaw a billion-dollar market. Instead of a world where this market is legalized and regulated, we are now subject to an investigation that just swaps out nouns. “Bribe” is put where “signing bonus” should be, “fraud” is in place of “negotiate,” and the actual government is put in a place where it’s enforcing the NCAA’s arbitrary and bullshit rules as if they were the word of God.

When Kim and the FBI speak of the $100,000 “bribe” made by Jim Gatto, director of global sports marketing for basketball at Adidas, to Louisville player Brian Bowen, what they’re actually discussing is a “signing bonus” that Bowen earned by being one of the best high school players in the entire nation. When they discuss coaches like Chuck Person committing “fraud” by allowing a player to receive both financial aid from Auburn and a payment for his future commitment to a certain agent or advisor, they’re purposefully ignoring the player’s right to receive both if they qualify.
   2556. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 27, 2017 at 09:52 PM (#5540659)
For the record, before tship and hombre swoop in and start accusing all Celtics fans of thinking LeBron doesn't own a majority share of the team: LEBRON OWNS A MAJORITY SHARE OF THE CELTICS.
I'm just here to share this shirt with you all. You're all my brothers. I love you all.
   2557. Tin Angel Posted: September 27, 2017 at 10:38 PM (#5540696)
   2558. Fourth True Outcome Posted: September 27, 2017 at 11:14 PM (#5540704)
Primey for whoever made the shirt in 2556.That is just top notch.
   2559. stevegamer Posted: September 28, 2017 at 12:03 AM (#5540720)
The video in 2557 doesn't have anyone getting injured, though.
   2560. jmurph Posted: September 28, 2017 at 09:35 AM (#5540786)
I'm just here to share this shirt with you all. You're all my brothers. I love you all.

That is delightful.
   2561. JC in DC Posted: September 28, 2017 at 11:18 AM (#5540897)
It is, but in fairness' and accuracy's sake, you could sub "Pitino" for "FBI" and Louisville still comes out the loser. That total p.o.s. has had more lives than 5 cats.
   2562. TFTIO sings Medieval Agrarian History Posted: September 28, 2017 at 11:34 AM (#5540915)
It is, but in fairness' and accuracy's sake, you could sub "Pitino" for "FBI" and Louisville still comes out the loser. That total p.o.s. has had more lives than 5 cats.

And yet, the system kept giving him jobs. Burn the whole ####### thing to the ground, is my thinking.
   2563. JC in DC Posted: September 28, 2017 at 11:59 AM (#5540950)
His next job will be ESPN. Where he'll say, "I was distracted and lost some control over what my people were doing. It's true I should've had better oversight, but I never suspected anything like this was going on, and had I known, I would've done everything in my power to root it out. The kids, the school; they're too important to me."
   2564. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 28, 2017 at 12:08 PM (#5540963)
His next job will be ESPN. Where he'll say, "I was distracted and lost some control over what my people were doing. It's true I should've had better oversight, but I never suspected anything like this was going on, and had I known, I would've done everything in my power to root it out. The kids, the school; they're too important to me."

I love the irony that paying hookers doesn't get you fired but paying athletes does.
   2565. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 28, 2017 at 12:10 PM (#5540965)
His next job will be ESPN. Where he'll say, "I was distracted and lost some control over what my people were doing. It's true I should've had better oversight, but I never suspected anything like this was going on, and had I known, I would've done everything in my power to root it out. The kids, the school; they're too important to me."

That's always been his defense. It might not actually work this time:

Louisville men's basketball coach Rick Pitino, who has been placed on unpaid administrative leave amid a federal investigation into fraud and corruption, is the "Coach-2" who played a role in funneling money to a recruit, a source confirmed to ABC News on Thursday.

According to court records, Christian Dawkins, the former agent for ASM Sports who was charged in both parts of the college basketball case, told the cooperating witness, Marty Blazer, that he helped funnel $100,000 to the family of recruit Brian Bowen "at the request of a coach," identified as "Coach-2."

Because two Adidas employees involved in the scheme were having difficulty getting the money, they wanted to funnel the payments through Augustine's AAU program, which was sponsored by Adidas. According to FBI documents, at one point during the conversation in the hotel room, Augustine allegedly said, "No one swings a bigger [expletive] than [Coach-2] at [Adidas]" and added "all [Coach-2] has to do is pick up the phone and call somebody [and say], 'These are my guys; they're taking care of us.'"

According to the sealed complaint against Gatto, Adidas employee Merl Code, Dawkins, Augustine and financial adviser Munish Sood, Coach-2 also had two phone conversations with Gatto on May 27 and a third call on June 1. The FBI did not have a wiretap on Gatto's phone, so what they talked about is not known.

"On or about June 3, 2017, [Bowen] officially committed to [Louisville] in return for the commitment by Gatto and [Adidas] to pay $100,000 for his family," the FBI complaint says.


Well, I sure hope it doesn't work.
   2566. There are a lot of good people in alt-Shooty Posted: September 28, 2017 at 12:28 PM (#5540991)
What happens to Bowen now? Does the NCAA suspend him?
   2567. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 28, 2017 at 01:20 PM (#5541051)
Mike O'Connor‏ @MOConnor_NBA
TJ is out here diving for loose balls and screaming at refs in training camp and I love it

Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
T.J. goes down without a foul call, complains to fill-in practice ref "open your f'ing eyes", pounds the floor.
   2568. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 28, 2017 at 01:29 PM (#5541067)
And yet, the system kept giving him jobs. Burn the whole ####### thing to the ground, is my thinking.


I am glad the FBI is investigating. I want there to be rules and to have them enforced. I agree College Sports are ethically problematic by their very nature at best. And yet I am still a fan and don't really get that outraged by this stuff or even care that much either way. Maybe I should, but I will be honest and admit I don't. I am not a huge college sports fan, but I am a fan.

I love the irony that paying hookers doesn't get you fired but paying athletes does.


Ditto.

What happens to Bowen now? Does the NCAA suspend him?


A really good question. I bet he is screwed though. Not without reason, but still.
   2569. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 28, 2017 at 01:42 PM (#5541078)
From the article I linked:

Interim Louisville president Greg Postel said Wednesday that one Cardinals player has been suspended indefinitely and withheld from practices and workouts. Sources told ESPN that Postel was referring to Bowen, who is featured prominently but not named in federal prosecutors' allegations of corruption in college recruiting.


Yeah, no way he plays in the NCAA this year.
   2570. smileyy Posted: September 28, 2017 at 02:44 PM (#5541113)
What happens to Bowen now? Does the NCAA suspend him?


I can see why and also I hope not. He broke the rules, and he also did it playing a corrupt game that those with actual power created.

Pay the damn kids already.
   2571. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 28, 2017 at 02:47 PM (#5541118)
I can see why and also I hope not. He broke the rules, and he also did it playing a corrupt game that those with actual power created.


New to following college sports? (not a serious question)

The kids always take it in the shorts, because they are by and large disposable. They have little power, which is one reason I have never begrudged them the opportunity to flee to the pros ASAP, and have never cared a whit for the "But it is hurting the college game" argument.

Best case he goes to Europe or somewhere, makes some money, and then makes it to the pros (if he is good enough).
   2572. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: September 28, 2017 at 02:48 PM (#5541119)
I love the irony that paying hookers doesn't get you fired but paying athletes does.


Amen. He should have resigned or been fired three years ago.

Atlanta is a fine sports town. We have passionate fans of UGA football, Tennessee football, 'Bama football, Auburn football, Clemson football......
   2573. smileyy Posted: September 28, 2017 at 03:07 PM (#5541128)
The kids always take it in the shorts, because they are by and large disposable. They have little power, which is one reason I have never begrudged them the opportunity to flee to the pros ASAP, and have never cared a whit for the "But it is hurting the college game" argument.


+1
   2574. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 28, 2017 at 03:32 PM (#5541155)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 27m27 minutes ago

The NBA's Board of Governors passed draft lottery reform today, league sources tell ESPN. New rules will start with 2019 Draft.

Adrian Wojnarowski‏ @wojespn 29m29 minutes ago

Sources: New player resting rules passed with NBA Board of Governors too.
   2575. JC in DC Posted: September 28, 2017 at 03:33 PM (#5541157)
What all this exposes has been known for some time: NCAA football and basketball are not really college games. They are professional sports where the largest benefits accrue to the schools, the coaches, and the rest of the student body, all at the expense of education. The farce of the by-far-highest salaried people being coaches is a symptom of this. The farce of a governing body (the NCAA) that routinely punishes the players first (no bowl games for you!), and allows coaches to dodge penalties and move on to new positions is another symptom of this. But parents, students, faculty, administrators, and fans have abetted this. We've all profited from a system that induces poor people to break rules (because everyone is doing it) and then leaves them punished, as in the case of Bowen, or uneducated and incapable of advancing in our economy unless they're among the very few who athletically and financially succeed. It's beyond gross. And I didn't even mention the slime of the AAU!

Burn the whole thing down.
   2576. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: September 28, 2017 at 03:44 PM (#5541168)
Yup.
---
The new draft odds are too flat - it's not hard to see scenarios where teams are reluctant to be, say, the 8 seed in the West.
Sidenote: This should tweak the value of draft picks in trades.
   2577. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 28, 2017 at 04:13 PM (#5541194)
But, JC, the free education! Remember, they're student-athletes, not athlete-students. How can you begin to assign a dollar value to that?
   2578. jmurph Posted: September 28, 2017 at 04:58 PM (#5541234)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Sources: The NBA's draft lottery reform passed 28-1-1. Oklahoma City voted "No" and Dallas abstained. NBA needed 3/4th majority for passage.

OKC makes sense, as they could be headed for the biggest single season loss of talent in a long damn time.
   2579. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 28, 2017 at 05:01 PM (#5541240)
But, JC, the free education! Remember, they're student-athletes, not athlete-students. How can you begin to assign a dollar value to that?


I had the misfortune of listening to Bomani Jones on ESPN radio*** last night and he was saying, in his hipster doofus way, that the scholarships don't put food on the table. Hmm, i believe the student athletes do get R&B along with the scholarship, and eat better than almost all of us. That guy is awful. His ridiculous argument almost made me revert to the purist amateur viewpoint.

*** Misfortune of living in a ruralish area, limited radio choices unless you really, really like current country music.
   2580. jmurph Posted: September 28, 2017 at 05:03 PM (#5541241)
Edmundo I think you're about to learn that a giant percentage of posters in this thread (myself included!) think Bomani is pretty great.
   2581. JuanGone..except1game Posted: September 28, 2017 at 05:14 PM (#5541251)
Edmundo I think you're about to learn that a giant percentage of posters in this thread (myself included!) think Bomani is pretty great.

I do like Bomani, but if you are hearing that as literally just about the player, then I'm guessing that he may not be the amateur here. A good number of these players come from poor backgrounds, and as mentioned in #2575, watch coaches and schools making millions off of their work. Rick Pitino gets R&B too, but so does his family who gets to live off his bi-weekly very large check in I'm guessing a large house with butlers who guard his coffin during the day. Sorry that you can't contemplate how terrible it would be for a NCAA player to, yes get to eat during school, but know that his family can't and he can't when he goes to visit them, while officials make millions off of his effort.
   2582. smileyy Posted: September 28, 2017 at 05:34 PM (#5541272)
scholarships don't put food on the table


I feel like I've heard stories of athletes having trouble with food and other life-basics, especially in the off-season. "Value" is one thing, but its not cash-in-hand.
   2583. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 28, 2017 at 05:59 PM (#5541290)
I feel like I've heard stories of athletes having trouble with food and other life-basics, especially in the off-season. "Value" is one thing, but its not cash-in-hand.
shabazz napier talked about it a few years ago after uconn won the national championship.

   2584. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 28, 2017 at 06:04 PM (#5541295)
I also was being *very* sarcastic in my post.
   2585. smileyy Posted: September 28, 2017 at 06:08 PM (#5541300)
That came through for me, Moses
   2586. JJ1986 Posted: September 28, 2017 at 06:17 PM (#5541305)
Is draft lottery reform just flattering the odds or did they also implement the stupid rule about teams not drafting in the top 3 in consecutive years?
   2587. Harlond Posted: September 28, 2017 at 07:46 PM (#5541345)
I don't see how that lottery reform solves the problem. By increasing the odds that non-last place teams will get the first pick, seems to me it increases the incentive for more teams to tank. And now you can up your odds without becoming the worst team in the league. From the point you know you're out of the playoffs, you have a strong incentive to get into the bottom three. Time will tell.

Philly got the first pick once, and still they tanked. You need more than one player to ascend to contender status, and even if you don't get the first pick, you benefit from higher picks and more picks.

So, I don't know, I'm no Sam Hinkie, but I think tanking is not dead, just more widely distributed. I'm sticking to my lottery tax idea. I need to develop an entire plan, but I think it could work.
   2588. PJ Martinez Posted: September 28, 2017 at 08:02 PM (#5541346)
And now you can up your odds without becoming the worst team in the league.

I think this is the point -- that it removes the incentive to go out of your way to insure that you are absolutely, without question, the worst team in the league by a safe margin (also known as The Full Hinkie). Whether that was actually a thing that was going to keep happening in a regular and somewhat embarrassing manner, I don't know. And whether that's offset by, as you note, the incentive to get into the bottom three, I also don't know. I imagine the effect will be minor, if it's detectable at all.
   2589. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: September 28, 2017 at 08:10 PM (#5541348)
I see the game-theory perspective that under the new rules a franchise is incentivized to avoid reaching the playoffs if they're in the position that e.g. Denver and Portland and Memphis are in right now (that is, no chance in hell of getting as far as the conference final).

In practice, the pressure from ownership and from Marketing will always be intense to reach the playoffs if at all possible. It will be very, very rare to see a GM--much less a coach--secure enough in his job to actually try to avoid reaching the playoffs, if the 8 seed is within his team's reach.

I think the new system is a little bit better than the old one (though I think the ideal system involves having no draft at all).
   2590. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: September 28, 2017 at 08:30 PM (#5541357)
Is draft lottery reform just flattering the odds


The other significant bit is that now the first FOUR slots will be determined by lotto, not the first three. So mediocre teams have more chances to jump up and bottom-3 teams can slide one spot further.
   2591. jmurph Posted: September 29, 2017 at 09:41 AM (#5541483)
I think this is the point -- that it removes the incentive to go out of your way to insure that you are absolutely, without question, the worst team in the league by a safe margin (also known as The Full Hinkie). Whether that was actually a thing that was going to keep happening in a regular and somewhat embarrassing manner, I don't know. And whether that's offset by, as you note, the incentive to get into the bottom three, I also don't know. I imagine the effect will be minor, if it's detectable at all.

Agree with all of this. Feels like the signal from the league is: we know you sometimes have to tear down and rebuild through the draft, but we don't want you playing a roster full of D League guys to ensure you're winning 10 games a year.
   2592. Rally Posted: September 29, 2017 at 10:09 AM (#5541507)
scholarships don't put food on the table


It might put food on the table for the athlete. It doesn't do much for his poor single mother and 7 younger siblings. Cash from shoe companies helps a lot more for that.
   2593. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 29, 2017 at 01:22 PM (#5541678)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 38m38 minutes ago

Sources: Hawks guard Dennis Schroder was arrested on a misdemeanor battery charge in early morning hours on Thursday in Atlanta suburb.


   2594. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: September 29, 2017 at 01:58 PM (#5541690)
In practice, the pressure from ownership and from Marketing will always be intense to reach the playoffs if at all possible. It will be very, very rare to see a GM--much less a coach--secure enough in his job to actually try to avoid reaching the playoffs, if the 8 seed is within his team's reach.

Agree completely. I also think that's true from the fans. I think as a fan, I'd much rather see my time get blitzed in the playoffs by the Warriors than get a very small sliver of a chance of getting the #1 pick.

Also think right now you're talking about one team that's in the GOAT discussion that makes that true. There have been recent 8-1 upsets and there will continue to be due to both widespread talent in the game and the 3 ball.
   2595. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 29, 2017 at 02:37 PM (#5541710)
Sources: Hawks guard Dennis Schroder was arrested on a misdemeanor battery charge in early morning hours on Thursday in Atlanta suburb.
And yet he never hits anything when a game is on the line.
   2596. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 29, 2017 at 03:24 PM (#5541758)
Mike Meech @meechone
Brett Brown playing ping pong may very well be the greatest sports photo ever taken (via @JCameratoCSN)
pic.twitter.com/gSZEetn1JF
   2597. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: September 29, 2017 at 03:28 PM (#5541763)
Bryan Kalbrosky @BryanKalbrosky
Russell Westbrook signed the biggest total contract in NBA history on the birthday of Kevin Durant. That's such a petty move and I love him.


5/205
   2598. jmurph Posted: September 29, 2017 at 03:44 PM (#5541783)
Wow I honestly did not expect that to happen.
   2599. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: September 29, 2017 at 03:47 PM (#5541787)
schroder is on the short list for my least favorite hawk of all time.

man, presti's having a great offseason.
   2600. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 29, 2017 at 03:57 PM (#5541793)
Presti's having a great CAREER.
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