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Saturday, February 17, 2018

OT - 2017-18 NBA thread (All-Star Weekend to End of Time edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  eliminationist rhetoric and precognition.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: February 17, 2018 at 02:09 AM | 6537 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   2001. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 16, 2018 at 06:51 PM (#5654854)
flip
   2002. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 16, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5654955)
that 2nd quarter was a jerry sloan special. it's not just that refs won't call every foul on every play, it's that when the foul count gets too one sided, refs will often look for fouls to call on the opponent so they can maintain the appearance of fairness, even at the expense of it.


there were, what, 7 fouls called against the sixers in the first 3 minutes of the 2nd quarter. GTFOOHWTBS.

1989. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: April 16, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5654650)
Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
Scott Foster and Tony Brothers is probably not a combination that will be beneficial to Philly. Would not be surprised to see game trend toward uneven pace of Game 1’s first half. twitter.com/IraHeatBeat/st…
   2003. SteveF Posted: April 16, 2018 at 09:51 PM (#5654973)
I'm starting to suspect that STIGGLES is a closet Sixer's fan. Will need more posts to verify.
   2004. tshipman Posted: April 16, 2018 at 10:16 PM (#5655007)
Brett Brown needs to make the adjustment and have the 6ers start hitting their 3p shots.
   2005. jmurph Posted: April 16, 2018 at 10:48 PM (#5655025)
Some, uh, interesting shots from Belinelli down the stretch here.
   2006. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 16, 2018 at 11:04 PM (#5655029)
Some, uh, interesting shots from Belinelli down the stretch here.


There's variance from 3-pointers, and then there's variance from Marco Belinelli's actions. God bless that man.
   2007. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 16, 2018 at 11:06 PM (#5655031)
I'm starting to suspect that STIGGLES is a closet Sixer's fan. Will need more posts to verify.

i'm not saying the sixers didn't commit any fouls. what i'm saying is that the threshold for what was and was not a foul was not the same for both teams. the refs let the heat play in the 90s, and the sixers were not given the same benefit.

the refs called three different games tonight.
the first ~6 minutes were called tight, but fair.
the next ~24 minutes, the refs let the heat get away with murder while calling every touch foul the sixers committed.
the rest of the 2nd half (especially the 4th quarter) was a free for all.

the heat did enough to win the game, so credit to them for that, but the referees ###### the sixers tonight.


moving on...
Brett Brown needs to make the adjustment and have the 6ers start hitting their 3p shots.
terrible mistake by him not to do that. i don't know what he was thinking.
   2008. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 12:20 AM (#5655051)
the referees weren't the only issue the sixers had tonight. sure, if they had called the game with any integrity at all, the sixers would have won by 20+ again, but sometimes referees like to put their thumb on the scales, and the sixers will need to figure out how to play through that before they win some titles.

among the sixers other issues:
couldn't hit 3s; 7/36 (19%) from beyond the arc.
wade went for 28 off the bench
redick, belinelli and covington combined to shoot 12/39 from the field and 4/24 from beyond the arc.
dragic, johnson and wade combined to shoot 26/37 from the field.
the heat shot 14/27 on mid-range shots/long 2s.
got nothing from fultz and mcconnell.


i know everything didn't go right for the heat either, but this game should not have been close. the fact that the score was 98-96 with 4 minutes left is an indication of how well the sixers are playing and how much upside they have this year.
   2009. tshipman Posted: April 17, 2018 at 12:33 AM (#5655053)
I love old man Pau Gasol.

I miss you Pau. Come back to LA.
   2010. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 01:08 AM (#5655056)
that's a horseshit call on draymond.
   2011. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 17, 2018 at 02:16 AM (#5655061)
if they had called the game with any integrity at all, the sixers would have won by 20+ again
One Bill Simmons is enough.
   2012. JC in DC Posted: April 17, 2018 at 07:40 AM (#5655081)
I thought the refs were good in last night's Philly game.
   2013. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:14 AM (#5655110)
The sixers absolutely adjusted to the way the game was being called. Covington committed about 10 fouls of his own the last 5 minutes of the game, he was two hand shoving guys all over the place.

While completely disagreeing with most of stiggie's specifics (it's the playoffs, of course a guy like McConnel isn't going to be a difference maker), I agree with the over all point and do expect the sixers to put this series away, probably with a couple blowout games.
   2014. spivey Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:33 AM (#5655122)
I agree that Miami got away with pretty physical defense early in the game, specifically in the 2nd quarter. But that can happen in the playoffs, and the Sixers need to be better. Redick in particular was awful. Miami played more desperate and refs will often reward that in the playoffs.
   2015. PJ Martinez Posted: April 17, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5655187)
I thought one of the luckier breaks for Miami last night was when Whiteside got into foul trouble.
   2016. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: April 17, 2018 at 12:12 PM (#5655213)
One Bill Simmons is enough

Any number is too many.
   2017. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2018 at 12:12 PM (#5655214)
The Sixers have a weird habit of just playing frantic at times. Those wild off-balance shots from Belinelli were the most obvious examples of this, but it seems to happen a lot, especially late. And it's not like it's the rookies doing it, so it's not really a youth/experience thing.

(I literally didn't notice anything about the refereeing at all, and I don't like Miami, for the record.)
   2018. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2018 at 12:17 PM (#5655217)
On a positive note, the Philadelphia crowd is crushing it. Must be great live.
   2019. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5655236)
deadspin:
Game 2 felt like a 99th percentile game for Miami, in which everything went exactly right for them. After getting torched for 130 points in Game 1, the Heat came out viciously engaged on defense, and spent the first half bullying the Sixers
And that’s the rub: Despite how perfectly executed Erik Spoelstra’s defensive game plan was, and despite Wade’s unexpected and revelatory performance, the Heat were really circling the drain late in the game.
I’m not sure if it bodes well for the Heat’s chances that after playing so well for much of the game they had to be rescued at the last minute by their 36-year-old bench player.
It feels like the Heat have a much harder road ahead of them than any team that just flipped home-court advantage should. More than anything, that’s a testament to just how deep and talented this Sixers team has become. It takes maximum effort to beat even a diminished version of this squad, and now the Heat will likely have to deal with them at full strength.
   2020. JC in DC Posted: April 17, 2018 at 12:52 PM (#5655242)
I thought one of the luckier breaks for Miami last night was when Whiteside got into foul trouble.


Agree. He's a fool, and committed some goofy fouls, but at least one was a joke on him. The refs were not the problem. Simmons is great, but he's gonna be fantastic when he becomes a bit more aggressive. There are times you just feel he could score, or take the game over, and he's currently too deferential to grab those moments.
   2021. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: April 17, 2018 at 01:20 PM (#5655271)
It feels like the Heat have a much harder road ahead of them than any team that just flipped home-court advantage should. More than anything, that’s a testament to just how deep and talented this Sixers team has become. It takes maximum effort to beat even a diminished version of this squad, and now the Heat will likely have to deal with them at full strength.


Christ, this is the 2018 Miami Heat we are talking about. How "deep and talented" do you really have to be to beat them? The Sixers are a nice collection of talent. They are not juggernuats and beating a mediocre Heat team in 5-6 games isn't going to mean much against tougher competition. The Heat outscored their opponents by .5 points a game on average this year. A contender should sweep them or 4 times out of 5 and the 5th time they take it in 5 games.
   2022. JC in DC Posted: April 17, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5655277)
Forget about the Sixers. Let's make this about the Knicks. I said a few pages ago I had a dream that Spoelstra was coaching the Knicks. Can't someone make that happen? I think he's a great coach. His teams are always ready to go.
   2023. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: April 17, 2018 at 01:34 PM (#5655281)
Can't someone make that happen?

No, but someone can make sure it CAN'T happen, and his name starts with "Erik Spoe"
   2024. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2018 at 01:55 PM (#5655302)
Let's make this about the Knicks. I said a few pages ago I had a dream that Spoelstra was coaching the Knicks. Can't someone make that happen? I think he's a great coach. His teams are always ready to go.

Not excited about the 2nd Woodson era? Although he did coach the last good Knicks team, didn't he? Mark Jackson to the Knicks would absolutely demand more regular posts from NJ.
   2025. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 01:55 PM (#5655303)
The refs were not the problem.
yeah, they ####### well were.

first 9 minutes
MIA8 fouls16 points
PHI
0 fouls25 points
PHI 
+9

next 9 minutes

MIA:  3 fouls22 points
PHI
12 fouls,  6 points 
MIA 
+16

next 18 minutes

MIA9 fouls45 points
PHI
9 fouls36 points
MIA 
+9

4th quarter 
(up to end of game fouling):
MIA6 fouls21 points
PHI
2 fouls31 points
PHI
: +10 


there are three levels to what happened last night:
firstly,
when the refs let MIA clutch and grab, the sixers offense struggled.
when they did their ####### jobs, the sixers offense thrived.

secondly,
here's a (rough) points per minute outline of those 4 segments:

minutes  1 9  1.8 MIA   2.4 PHI
minutes 10 
18 2.4 MIA   0.6 PHI
minutes 19 
36 2.5 MIA   2.0 PHI
minutes 37 
47 1.8 MIA   2.6 PHI 

0 PHI fouls in the first 9 minutes; 1.8 PPM for MIA's offense.
12 PHI fouls in the next 9 minutes; 2.4 PPM for MIA's offense.

MIA's offense wasn't impacted by the shifts in refereeing because the sixers defense isn't predicated on clutching and grabbing.

thirdly,
there was a whiplash effect from those first 18 minutes.
the refs called 0 fouls on the sixers in the first 9 minutes, then called 12 fouls on PHI in the next 9 minutes.

PHI didn't change anything about the way they played (neither did MIA, for that matter), so how the hell does that happen?


it doesn't take a 57i66135 to see what happened here.
the sixers didn't commit 0 fouls in the first 9 minutes, but they didn't commit 12 in the next 9 minutes either.
MIA absolutely committed 8 fouls in the first 9 minutes, and they sure as #### didn't commit only 3 in the next 9... or even just 9 in the following 18.


the refs ###### the sixers last night.
other things happened, too, but that happened and it impacted the outcome of the game.
   2026. PJ Martinez Posted: April 17, 2018 at 02:03 PM (#5655308)
This is less full Stiggles than full Heinsohn. I love Tommy, but ######## about the refs is the most tiresome form of homerism.

Which isn't even to say that the trajectory sketched in 2025 is wrong; maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But this is not new or unique either way. Miami mucked it up. It worked. Now Philly needs to adjust. I still expect them to win the series.
   2027. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 17, 2018 at 02:11 PM (#5655314)
Forget about the Sixers. Let's make this about the Knicks. I said a few pages ago I had a dream that Spoelstra was coaching the Knicks. Can't someone make that happen? I think he's a great coach. His teams are always ready to go.

Did you see my post the other day with Woj listing the guys they're talking to? I think I know who your favorite in that group will be. David Fizdale, Jerry Stackhouse, Mark Jackson, Mike Woodson, and David Blatt.
   2028. JC in DC Posted: April 17, 2018 at 02:15 PM (#5655318)
Right: I'm a huge fan of Fizdale. I don't really mind Woodson. Jackson is my least favorite, by far. Blatt I think has too much stacked against him, but I'm intrigued. He could be a Belichick type in the sense of washing out in one place (not of his own undoing) and being great. Stackhouse I know nothing about except he's hot right now.
   2029. Booey Posted: April 17, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5655319)
Despite the next 2 games being in Miami, I'm guessing this was the last game the Heat win in this series. They're not that good, and this series is a mismatch.

I wouldn't worry too much about it.
   2030. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5655320)
This is less full Stiggles than full Heinsohn. I love Tommy, but ######## about the refs is the most tiresome form of homerism.

Which isn't even to say that the trajectory sketched in 2025 is wrong; maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But this is not new or unique either way. Miami mucked it up. It worked. Now Philly needs to adjust. I still expect them to win the series.

no, MIA didn't just muck it up. those first 9 minutes happened. the refs called fouls like they existed when the game started... and then they stopped.

that kind of inconsistency happens sometimes.

what happened after that, calling touch fouls on one team and nothing on the other, can also happen for reasons that have been pointed out (momentum, playing at home, stars, etc.). it's still bad, but it's usually predictable.


but both of those things happening in one game, both of them favoring one team over the other, is unacceptable.
   2031. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 17, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5655322)
I wouldn't worry too much about it.


Hey! Some of us are enjoying the stiggles anxiety attack.
   2032. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5655324)
I think Miami might take one more- they're good on defense and are generally smart. And Spoelstra will continue to adjust. But yeah they're obviously outgunned, they just can't score enough.
   2033. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 02:21 PM (#5655325)
but both of those things happening in one game, both of them favoring one team over the other, is unacceptable...unless it favors the sixers.
FTFM
   2034. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2018 at 02:24 PM (#5655327)
I missed all of New Orleans-Portland. Was it roughly how the box score makes it look- the Blazers just couldn't hit a shot? Or did New Orleans do anything interesting?
   2035. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 17, 2018 at 02:27 PM (#5655330)
For the first three quarters the Blazers were ice cold. New Orleans was defending well enough, but the Blazers were missing a lot of perfectly good shots. Their offense woke up in the second half of the fourth quarter, and then the Pellies defended well to finish the game. The interesting things NO did, to my mind were: a) Anthony Davis was in fact AD b) Playoff Rondo is at least somewhat extant still, and c) Jrue had himself a game.
   2036. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 02:32 PM (#5655337)
On a positive note, the Philadelphia crowd is crushing it. Must be great live.

yup.

process skeptics have become indistinguishable from, and absorbed by, process trusters.

they're still here, but this wasn't a 'meet in the middle' situation.

every sixers fan is now 57i66135.

20,000 57i6613535 at every home game for the next decade.
   2037. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2018 at 02:45 PM (#5655347)
Thanks FTO. Gonna try to watch tonight but I am extremely an old so we'll see.
   2038. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: April 17, 2018 at 02:53 PM (#5655354)
David Fizdale, Jerry Stackhouse, Mark Jackson, Mike Woodson, and David Blatt

Fizdale>Blatt>Jackson/Woodson>Stackhouse.

Simmons is great, but he's gonna be fantastic when he becomes a bit more aggressive. There are times you just feel he could score, or take the game over, and he's currently too deferential to grab those moments.

The problem is that he can't. When you can't shoot at all, can't hit free throws, and can only finish right handed it's tough to score in the playoffs. It's a miracle he's as effective as he is offensively given his glaring weaknesses.
   2039. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 17, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5655372)
There's something very uninspiring and I dunno, desperate, about hiring a coach you've already fired once.

I think Blatt probably deserves another chance.
   2040. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 03:40 PM (#5655387)
Fizdale>Blatt>Jackson/Woodson>Stackhouse.
nah.

fizdale > stackhouse > woodson > blatt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jackson
I think Blatt probably deserves another chance.
he needs to be an NBA assistant for a few years before he gets another head job.

his lack of NBA experience hurt him immediately with the cavs*, and after lebron axed him, he ran back to europe with his tail between his legs instead of fighting for another NBA opportunity.


* i'll admit he was hired to do a different job (developing kyrie, wiggins, thompson, etc) than he wound up with (winning titles with lebron/love)
   2041. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5655396)
okay, kelly olynyk needs to be suspended for the next 25 games

that's far from his only scumbag move yesterday. he also dove into amir johnson's knees, and slewfooted dario saric.
   2042. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5655397)
I'm not big on the "these kids and their traveling and palming violations" talk but we all agree the one Harden step-back-hop-thing was a travel on Saturday, right?
   2043. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 17, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5655406)
I'd love to see that Olynyk video in better resolution but it looks like Simmons shrugging Olynyk's arm from in front of his rather than Olynyk throwing an elbow in a bizarre situation that neither Sixer seems to care about.

Edit: better resolution or from a different angle
   2044. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2018 at 04:11 PM (#5655412)
I'd love to see that Olynyk video in better resolution but it looks like Simmons shrugging Olynyk's arm from in front of his rather than Olynyk throwing an elbow in a bizarre situation that neither Sixer seems to care about.

Yeah that plus a really exaggerated "get your hand off of mine" move from Olynyk.
   2045. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5655417)
I'd love to see that Olynyk video in better resolution but it looks like Simmons shrugging Olynyk's arm from in front of his rather than Olynyk throwing an elbow in a bizarre situation that neither Sixer seems to care about.

Edit: better resolution or from a different angle
here's a youtube
   2046. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 17, 2018 at 04:20 PM (#5655421)
Ok, on that video's Zapruder-style slowdown you can see that Simmons flips's Olynyk's arm with his elbow.

You gotta take a deep breath, my man. The playoffs go on a while, and I doubt it's healthy to be running this hot for that long.
   2047. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 04:36 PM (#5655430)
The problem is that he can't. When you can't shoot at all, can't hit free throws, and can only finish right handed it's tough to score in the playoffs. It's a miracle he's as effective as he is offensively given his glaring weaknesses.

the FT thing is overblown. simmons was 11/16 from the FT line in games 1 and 2, and he shot 56% for the year. that's not great, but it's workable.

his lack of shooting actually helps the other parts of his game right now. kenny smith nailed it in the pregame. most teams back off simmons, but in doing so, they give him free reign as a playmaker. it's the rajon rondo paradox.

what MIA did yesterday was crowd simmons and try to body him with james johnson, justise winslow and josh richardson. that's the right way to defend him (for now), and MIA might actually have the bodies to make it work. spoelstra probably figured that out so quickly (at least in part) due to his own experience coaching against rajon rondo.
   2048. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 17, 2018 at 05:10 PM (#5655463)
I'm not big on the "these kids and their traveling and palming violations" talk but we all agree the one Harden step-back-hop-thing was a travel on Saturday, right?

So was this one
   2049. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 17, 2018 at 05:19 PM (#5655473)
it's the rajon rondo paradox

I don't think I've used the phrase here, but a friend of mine and I have been referring to Simmons as Jumbo Rondo all season. Plenty of differences between the two, but in many ways Simmons plays like a version of Rondo that can physically dominate and is more willing to score.
   2050. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 06:03 PM (#5655495)
Ok, on that video's Zapruder-style slowdown you can see that Simmons flips's Olynyk's arm with his elbow.

i see what you think happened, and i might buy it if:
A) olynyk didn't have a history of injuring opponents
B) olynyk didn't take cheapshots at sixers throughout the game
C) olynyk didn't stalk simmons before throwing his elbow
D) olynyk didn't stare simmons down after throwing his elbow

the goon tried to intimidate simmons, was rebuffed, then threw an elbow to try to save face.

since you're caught up on simmons' arm motion, there are two possibilities there:
1: simmons' shrugged olynyk away and their arms got tangled up. simmons then swung his own arm through the air, propelling olynyk's cocked elbow toward the back of his own head.
2: simmons' shrugged olynyk away and olynyk responded by throwing an elbow at the back of simmons' head. since their arms were tangled, simmons' arm was propelled by the attempted assault.


olynyk's elbow doesn't lie. the windup, apex and follow through are consistent with a deliberate elbow strike.

and let's not forget the time he locked a kimura on kevin love.
   2051. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 17, 2018 at 06:58 PM (#5655516)
I thought I was ready for FULL STIGGLES; I was not ready for FULL STIGGLES.
   2052. PJ Martinez Posted: April 17, 2018 at 07:19 PM (#5655528)
The camera's far away, but this is actually the best angle on the Olynyk-Simmons entanglement.

Bottom line: their arms aren't actually that close to one another's heads at the moment of swinging. Given Olynyk's history, I don't really doubt that he was trying to get up in Simmons's grill in some way, and Sixers fans aren't wrong to keep an eye on him. But nothing dangerous happened here.
   2053. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 07:36 PM (#5655533)
I thought I was ready for FULL STIGGLES; I was not ready for FULL STIGGLES.
i tried to warn you people.

on a related note, can anyone find an earlier reference to full 57i66135 than august 2012?:
I'm just warning you guys right now, I could go full Steagles on the Wolves this year. I realized this when I read "Love is among the Top 15-20 guys in the league" and unconsciously scoffed.
i'd strongly recommend it.

sports are so much more fun when you can make strangers hate your team solely because of your sickening enthusiasm for them.


on another related note:
This is at least 90% full STIGGLES. Maybe higher.
nah, still not even close.
Denying a high STIGGLES level is classic full STIGGLES.
no. just no.

it's been 5 years since any philly team was good, so i understand that you people have forgotten what it's like when i go full STIGGLES, but no, this just is not what full STIGGLES is.

Is this a joke? This is your friendly reminder that the Spurs through 3.6 games were 2.99-1 against Golden State and had a point differential of like +50, not exaggerating. They were winning by 20+ points in all 4 games.
Never go full stiggles...
i know it's been a while since full STIGGLES showed up, but that isn't even regular STIGGLES.
99% full STIGGLES
it's getting close.
I'm not so sure, "STIGGLES" was only possible when they sucked. They don't suck. They're really good.
Honestly going to be pissed if we don't get a full STIGGLES if the Sixers take the 3 seed.
full 57i66135 isn't coming out until at least the conference finals.
i'm an atheist, but...god help all of us, if that one's accurate


We love STEAGLES, but you have to prune him back every once in a while or his enthusiasm becomes as Kudzu. But passion is fun, it is what makes us fans.

this is only 70% STIGGLES -- at best. but you can rest assured, full STIGGLES is coming. when this thing turns, i'm gonna explode with passion all over your screens.


okay, now it's 75% STIGGLES.
   2054. PJ Martinez Posted: April 17, 2018 at 07:41 PM (#5655537)
sports are so much more fun when you can make strangers hate your team solely because of your sickening enthusiasm for them.

This is the perfect distillations of the Stiggles experience. I can't tell how much of my antipathy toward the Sixers right now is because of their historical rivalry with the Celtics and how much of it is because Sixers fans are driving me up a wall. (On a disinterested level, I admire the way they play and think that their success is good for the NBA. But I want them to lose.)
   2055. SteveF Posted: April 17, 2018 at 07:51 PM (#5655545)
The problem really isn't STIGGLES. It's the lack of balance. We need a STIGGLES for every NBA team.

We don't have one STIGGLES too many; we have 29 too few.
   2056. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: April 17, 2018 at 07:57 PM (#5655549)
The Barneys are making it rain tonight.
   2057. stevegamer Posted: April 17, 2018 at 07:58 PM (#5655551)
every sixers fan is now 57i66135.


False. Some of us are never going there.
   2058. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 17, 2018 at 08:02 PM (#5655553)
We don't have one STIGGLES too many; we have 29 too few.


As an art piece, I am very tempted to adopt a STIGGLES persona for the Orlando Magic.
   2059. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 17, 2018 at 08:03 PM (#5655557)
I think there are too many Celtics fans in this thread for any of us to sustain anything near a STIGGLES persona, though we all have our moments.
   2060. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: April 17, 2018 at 08:06 PM (#5655562)
Which would be the harder STIGGLES to maintain : Charlotte, or Orlando?
   2061. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 17, 2018 at 08:30 PM (#5655571)
Which would be the harder STIGGLES to maintain : Charlotte, or Orlando?

Sacramento
   2062. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 08:41 PM (#5655578)
This is the perfect distillations of the Stiggles experience.

plus, if i'm being honest, 4% "light" trolling.
   2063. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:00 PM (#5655586)
As an art piece, I am very tempted to adopt a STIGGLES persona for the Orlando Magic.
go for it.
Which would be the harder STIGGLES to maintain : Charlotte, or Orlando?

orlando. CHA's mistakes at least tend to be competent players, but ORL gave 60MM to biyombo; drafted, then cut hezonja; drafted, then traded payton; traded sabonis and oladipo for ibaka, then traded ibaka for terrence ross and a 1st round draft pick, then traded that 1st round draft pick for 2nd round draft picks in 2020, 2022 and 2023.
Sacramento

i actually kind of like what they're doing.

i like cauley-stein, i like fox, i like hield (though SAC's valuation of him was way off), i like justin jackson, i like bogdanovic.

they have a lot of work to do, but i think their biggest mistakes (drafting papagiannis, answering hinkie's phone calls, running cousins out of town) are somewhat unlikely to be repeated.
   2064. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:07 PM (#5655591)
STIGGLES is only 192 proof? We're getting ripped off.

If the Celtics somehow get to the second round it'll A) make the good teams in the East salivate and B) prove that Brad Stevens is a ####### wizard. How he isn't unanimously Coach of the Year I have no clue. Look at the contenders, the Raps nearly bottled the first seed despite having the best rotation in the NBA.

eta: And respond "system coach" all you want, he got Kyrie Irving to play above average defense. In the regular season. KYRIE IRVING.
   2065. SteveF Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:07 PM (#5655592)
How the hell can a team with Antetokounmpo be this bad?
   2066. JJ1986 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:11 PM (#5655597)
CHA's mistakes at least tend to be competent players
They did get Miles Plumlee, but were able to pass him on.
   2067. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:17 PM (#5655601)
How the hell can a team with Antetokounmpo be this bad?


Especially when they're facing a system coach with nothing but two rookies and Al Horford!
   2068. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:21 PM (#5655603)
orlando. CHA's mistakes at least tend to be competent players, but ORL gave 60MM to biyombo; drafted, then cut hezonja; drafted, then traded payton; traded sabonis and oladipo for ibaka, then traded ibaka for terrence ross and a 1st round draft pick, then traded that 1st round draft pick for 2nd round draft picks in 2020, 2022 and 2023.

I mean, this is all true, but I think the essential insanity of FULL STIGGLES is better suited to a chaotic donkey circus like Orlando than the sad, dull wet fart that is Charlotte.
   2069. nick swisher hygiene Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:23 PM (#5655605)
Bucks shot 62% from the floor and trail by 9 at the half!?
   2070. tshipman Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:29 PM (#5655609)
David Fizdale, Jerry Stackhouse, Mark Jackson, Mike Woodson, and David Blatt


Stackhouse would be my preference out of that list, and I'm curious why other people don't agree.

Fizdale, Jackson, Woodson and Blatt are all varying degrees of generic coach with some success and aren't likely to move the needle significantly.

How the hell can a team with Antetokounmpo be this bad?


I wonder this about the Bucks all the time.
   2071. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:31 PM (#5655610)
Boston somehow has only 3 turnovers.
   2072. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:32 PM (#5655613)

orlando. CHA's mistakes at least tend to be competent players, but ORL gave 60MM to biyombo; drafted, then cut hezonja; drafted, then traded payton; traded sabonis and oladipo for ibaka, then traded ibaka for terrence ross and a 1st round draft pick, then traded that 1st round draft pick for 2nd round draft picks in 2020, 2022 and 2023.


biyombo = mutombo
aaron gordon = shawn kemp
hezonja (who is still on the roster) = croatian larry bird
jonathan isaac = lamar odom
fournier = tracy mcgrady

the magic are poised to become a juggernaut in a couple of years, with a nightmare lineup of tall skilled players that might be the best defensive lineup in history. no state taxes also has them as the favorite to sign lebron this offseason.

sign lebron
sign shaun livingston
sign jj redick
hire jeff van gundy

lebron/mutombo/kemp/odom/mcgrady
bird/doncic/livingston/redick/ross

teams are going to struggle to crack 85 a game against this lineup.

the overall franchise plan is brilliant. hire mediocre temporary coaches to get more high draft picks while accumulating talent. sixers peaked too soon. doncic is the leading candidate for the mvp in 2022-2030. i set the over under on titles at 3.5.
   2073. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5655619)
I mean, this is all true, but I think the essential insanity of FULL STIGGLES is better suited to a chaotic donkey circus like Orlando than the sad, dull wet fart that is Charlotte.

it's not insanity; it's maniacal exuberance.


i'd say DAL is the best option, then. mark cuban and rick carlisle are smart enough to consistently make good decisions, but since cuban is a dumpster fire of impatience and desperation, they're liable to make some king/divac level mistakes in the near future.
   2074. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:38 PM (#5655620)
The Wizards, who are not good, have just under $125 million committed for next season. The following year they owe $107.5 million to Beal, Wall, Porter, and Mahimni.
   2075. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5655621)
Not only do they have Giannis, they also have Bledsoe and Middleton. From a talent standpoint, there's more than enough there for them to be one of the best teams in the East.
   2076. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5655622)
[2072]:

you need to let it breathe a little more. try to sprinkle in the insanity along the way, instead of leading with it and then punching us all in the mouth with it like you're some kelly olynyk.
   2077. jmurph Posted: April 17, 2018 at 09:43 PM (#5655624)
Hey do you guys think Wall will activate his $46.8 million player option for 2022-23 or nah?
   2078. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 17, 2018 at 10:02 PM (#5655636)
[2077] Oh my God, that is a real thing.

I was so excited about the Wizards' future 2-3 years ago.
   2079. spivey Posted: April 17, 2018 at 10:11 PM (#5655639)
Not only do they have Giannis, they also have Bledsoe and Middleton. From a talent standpoint, there's more than enough there for them to be one of the best teams in the East.

Not sure I agree. I mean, they have 3 good players. But 2 of them are guards/wings that can't shoot. Bledsoe is solid-good but as NBA starting PGs go he's not special. And their bench is just awful. And their bigs (plus Snell) cannot rebound to save their life. They can't rebound, can't play defense, can't shoot. They have the makings of a core of a good team, but they need both depth, a big that can rebound (and ideally stretch the floor a bit), and another big that can stretch the floor. Dieng makes some sense on their team, and seems like a guy Minnesota would be trying to get out from.
   2080. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 17, 2018 at 10:32 PM (#5655654)
Of the 16 3s the Bucks attempted 0 were from the corner - they matched 16 above the break 3s with 27 long 2s.


Screw JC's Knicks dream, Spo would do wonders in Milwaukee.
   2081. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: April 17, 2018 at 10:34 PM (#5655655)
I think the Bucks have more talent than anyone in the East short of Toronto, Cleveland and probably Philly, but it seems like they have a lack of it because their schemes are so bad, no one is put in a position to succeed. I'd argue that a huge part of great coaching is getting the most out of every player and the Bucks are just so goddam dumb.
   2082. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: April 17, 2018 at 10:37 PM (#5655658)
@haralabob on twitter: "Of the 16 3s the Bucks attempted 0 were from the corner - they matched 16 above the break 3s with 27 long 2s."

https://twitter.com/haralabob/status/986430311318761472
   2083. tshipman Posted: April 18, 2018 at 12:59 AM (#5655777)
Quick thoughts on NOP/POR:

1. Holy cow is Evan Turner killing them. Two games so far, -6 and -16 in 50 min and a combined 6/21 from the floor.
2. Mo Harkless and Ed Davis seem to be the logical adjustments. Ed Davis gives AD some issues on the glass at least, and gives reasonable effort stepping out on the perimeter, while Nurkic just keeps getting clowned.
3. Portland is probably done. Teams don't tend to win series after losing the first two at home--that said, if Mirotic is out, that helps them a ton.
4. I love McCollum and Lillard, but they just fall asleep at times. Late in the game they get E'Twan Moore to miss 2 FTs, but Lillard and McCollum are nowhere on the box out on the FT, and the Pelicans get the offensive rebound.
5. Man, I want Rondo's agent. He plays mediocre defense, turns the ball over 6 times and people keep saying, "Playoff Rondo!" Like ... congrats on this below average player?
6. You can't say enough about Jrue, Mirotic and AD. AD looked gassed down the end, though. Would love to see him get some more rest.
   2084. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: April 18, 2018 at 01:16 AM (#5655779)
I also have no idea why a player who dropped 16/10/9 on ≈55% shooting, made several big plays, and ended up a team-high +17 is getting compliments.
   2085. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: April 18, 2018 at 01:17 AM (#5655781)
Also, when did Jrue Holiday become incredibly good?
   2086. tshipman Posted: April 18, 2018 at 01:25 AM (#5655784)
I also have no idea why a player who dropped 16/10/9 on ≈55% shooting, made several big plays, and ended up a team-high +17 is getting compliments.


He had one good game! Jrue scored 30 and the post game was about the 4th best player on the team!
   2087. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: April 18, 2018 at 07:36 AM (#5655795)
Bledsoe-Brogdon-Snell-Middleton-Giannis was the smallball lineup that came from behind and almost won Game 1 for the Bucks. Prunty played that lineup together 0 minutes last night.
   2088. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: April 18, 2018 at 09:47 AM (#5655821)
The Portland guards have been just plain bad. They've shot 29 for 80 from the field and their perimeter defense has regressed to years past. Lillard tweaked his ankle earlier in the month - I have to think that's still affecting him. With McCollum, I have no idea what's been going on but he's slumped since the team's win streak ended in March.
   2089. spivey Posted: April 18, 2018 at 09:54 AM (#5655825)
Anthony Davis had a redemption year this year for me. He may be back on top of my "If I had to build a franchise..." list.
   2090. Booey Posted: April 18, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5655868)
Losing both games at home obviously looks bad, but the Blazers were a whopping 1 game ahead of the Pels this season. Their win against the Jazz in the finale aside, Portland limped into the playoffs while the Pelicans entered with some momentum. If NOP wins, it won't be nearly the upset a 6th seed beating a 3rd seed normally would be (for example, despite now having HC, I'd be very surprised if MIA beats PHI). In fact, any of the 3-9 seeds in the West could have beaten each other without it being an upset.

Also, the forever childish part of me loves that we have a POR-NO match up.
   2091. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 18, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5655870)
Losing both games at home obviously looks bad, but the Blazers were a whopping 1 game ahead of the Pels this season. If NOP wins, it won't be nearly the upset a 6th seed beating a 3rd seed normally would be (for example, despite now having HC, I'd be very surprised if MIA beats PHI). In fact, any of the 3-9 seeds in the West could have beaten each other without it being an upset.

Agreed. I don't think I put it in my official predictions, but any of the first round series - except the GS and HOU ones - could have had either team winning without it really being a shock; some would have been more surprising than others for sure and some would still be upsets*. The same thing will be true in the 2nd round - I only am positive in GS and HOU winning whatever the matchups will be.

*Yes, Wizards over Raptors would have been a pretty big upset, but the Raptors not playing well enough and the Wiz playing a little over their head wasn't completely far-fetched. That is, going into the series, now it'd be pretty ####### shocking if the Wizards even made the series competitive.
   2092. JJ1986 Posted: April 18, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5655871)
I think the Bucks have some structural roster problems despite their talent, especially when Bledsoe isn't playing well. It's hard to play Giannis and a traditional big and have enough spacing on the floor. Jabari Parker looks terrible to me and so they also have problems going small. They either have to play Middleton at the 4 or (God forbid) Shabazz Muhammad. I would try a lineup like Brogdon-Snell-Brown-Middleton-Antetokounmpo.
   2093. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: April 18, 2018 at 11:15 AM (#5655883)
Also, the forever childish part of me loves that we have a POR-NO match up.

There's something intoxicating about the series. I haven't been able to put my finger on it, but I know it when I see it.
   2094. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: April 18, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5655898)
Kawhi's already mentally checked out of the organization; if the Spurs don't get a good return for him they likely have a late-80's Orioles future looming...

I was so excited about the Wizards' future 2-3 years ago.

I think a trade of Kawhi for Beal and #15 would be good for both teams. Both organizations seem bogged down by bad relationships at the moment: Kawhi v. Pop/everyone in San Antonio and Beal v. Wall in Washington. I wasn't particularly high on Beal early in his career, but at this point I believe he can make another leap to All-NBA level in a good situation. Beal has been around so long it's hard to believe he's only 24. He's improved his decision-making such that I think he'd be a perfect fit as a co-lead guard paired with Dejounte Murray. I'd also expect his defense to improve a lot with the Spurs, mostly because he'd be an outlier otherwise. For the Wizards, adding Kawhi would at least give them the possibility of becoming a true contender, health permitting.
   2095. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: April 18, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5655925)
I think that's an interesting idea. Obviously, the return for Kawhi feels light, but it always does in these types of trades plus there are injury/contract concerns. If the Spurs do trade him, I'm guessing it'll be for a deal like this one which doesn't seem "fair" or like the most appealing one (like more young players/picks), because I doubt Pops really would want to go full rebuild. This trade would also turn out way better than we think it should, because Pops.
   2096. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: April 18, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5655948)
I agree with previous comments that Antetokounmpo should be playing a lot more center than he does.

But their most glaring need is a coach who understands the value of the three point shot and how to leverage it on offense and prevent opponents from doing the same. It is really, really glaring how Milwaukee's offense doesn't try to generate open threes and how Milwaukee's defense doesn't attempt to prevent opponents from generating open threes.

Giannis has the potential to be a drive-and-kick force of nature the likes of which only LeBron and Harden have ever been, but the Bucks just don't seem to get the concept that it's 2018 now, not 2003. A lineup of Giannis and four shooters would murder everyone on offense, if properly coached.

If Milwaukee doesn't want to play Giannis at the 5, then they should follow Philly's model with Ben Simmons and play Giannis as the 1, get a much better big than John Henson to hold down the 5, and flank Middleton with better shooters at the 2 and 4 than they currently have. I was high on the Bledsoe acquisition when it happened, but after watching them play for five months I think maybe he's not a good fit with Giannis. But we'd have to see them competently coached to be sure.
   2097. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 18, 2018 at 01:14 PM (#5655963)
Combing recent sub-threads, I would love to see Giannis in San Antonio and watch what Pop could do with him, so let's trade Giannis for Kawhi (plus whatever is needed on either side), just so we get to see that.
   2098. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: April 18, 2018 at 01:17 PM (#5655964)
I truly can't get over how bad a coaching job Joe Prunty did last night. The starters played 10 total minutes together, and were +27. Stevens went to his bench repeatedly to combat this, and Prunty responded by also going to his bench instead of continuing to play his starters together. The Bucks' high-end talent is their main advantage in this series, and Prunty played 12 players last night (11 before garbage time).

I'm going to game 4 Sunday and wouldn't mind if they lost, because I'm really, really sick of watching this team.
   2099. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: April 18, 2018 at 01:20 PM (#5655967)
From Milwaukee's perspective I don't see any way in hell to make a Giannis trade to San Antonio work. He's vastly more valuable than Kawhi with the latter's health doubts, and San Antonio is pretty bereft of other valuable assets (especially when you have to match cap values).

I fear Giannis is going to demand a trade sooner than later if Milwaukee doesn't get a real coach soon, but I honestly have a hard time coming up with any trade that works.

Also it's worth noting that Giannis gutted through most of this season on a bad knee. Let's fervently hope it fully heals with offseason rest and doesn't turn chronic on him.
   2100. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 18, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5655983)
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