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Saturday, February 17, 2018

OT - 2017-18 NBA thread (All-Star Weekend to End of Time edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  eliminationist rhetoric and precognition.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: February 17, 2018 at 02:09 AM | 6537 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   501. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 07, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5634845)
To be fair, it might be a bit presumptuous to give Harden the award now considering how Anthony Davis is balling at the moment.
   502. jmurph Posted: March 07, 2018 at 10:59 AM (#5634848)
Also, for all the people who complain about predictability, I think the playoffs this year are going to prove you wrong. I think there's only one guarantee - the Warriors and Rockets will play in the WCF and the winner wins the title - but nothing else is for sure. 3-8 in the East are separated by 4 games, and I'm not going to write off any of those teams beating any of the others in that group (or even Tor and Bos, even though I do think they are clearly the 2 best in the East). 3-10 in the West are separated by 4.5 games, and while none of them can beat GS/HOU, I'm not writing off any of them beating any of the other ones in that group.

Agree with this, and I'd add I'm not even certain about the GS/Houston part. I agree that's very, very likely to be the outcome, but I think it's fair to wait to see Houston actually do it before getting too confident in their playoff success, and the Warriors, though obviously great, are on year 4 of this run and have a lot of physical/mental mileage. What both teams have going for them, of course, is that the other teams in the west aren't exactly making a strong case for themselves as outside contenders.
   503. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 07, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5634849)
What would you do if you were Memphis's GM?

They look totally screwed as far as I can tell. I'm not sure they have a player with positive trade value -- maybe Gasol, but he is having a pretty bad year (shooting 2's at an all-time worst .452, career high in turnovers) and is 33 and is owed $24M next year. Chandler Parsons has 2/$49 remaining, Conley has 2/$62, both guys are coming off injuries (and at 29 and 30 respectively aren't spring chickens anymore), yikes. They don't have any prospects who are (IMO) good bets to have legitimate careers in the Association. To top it off, they owe a future first to Boston (1-8 protected in 2019, then 1-6, then unprotected).

So... what can you do? They are screwed, right?

But hey, at least they got rid of Fizdale.

sign a couple PFs like thomas robinson, jordan mickey, anthony randolph, tarik black, trevor booker, and maybe trade for a kenneth faried. i guess MEM already has green, martin, johnson, rabb and davis, so they might already have the right PFs to run my system.

get some guards/wings like jodie meeks, cj miles, dion waiters, nick young, jr smith, isaiah canaan, KCP.

draft BPA, or maybe even trade down.

if someone makes a good offer on gasol (a pick in the 10-20 range, plus a pair of lottery tickets), i'd trade him. if not, i'd keep him until the deadline.

i'd keep conley. you just have to eat parsons.

then go into the season, play as fast a pace as possible, launch 40+ 3s every game and crash the glass with reckless abandon. i think that style of offense could be surprisingly effective if you commit to it, without actually winning any games.
   504. jmurph Posted: March 07, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5634850)
I still don't enjoy watching Harden, I guess I'm an outlier on that one.
   505. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 07, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5634855)
More on the Bulls being told to stop sitting healthy good players:

K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop 16h16 hours ago

Bulls indeed had dialogue with league office over Lopez, Holiday, who both are on record as opting not to play reserve roles for now. Cooperative talks led to plans for limited roles for Lopez, Holiday down stretch.

K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop 15h15 hours ago

This situation stems from league’s new rest rules. Dialogue between Bulls and league office cordial and cooperative throughout. Roles for Lopez, Holiday will be limited. And rest rules allow for 1 to still sit at road games, though unknown if Bulls will choose that route.

K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop 15h15 hours ago

Correction: Can sit 1 healthy player for home games if they so choose. Though based on cooperative dialogue between Bulls, league office, would guess Bulls don’t take this route.


I guess it makes sense that the Bulls would try and clear a plan with the league to avoid punishment, but this could also be read cynically in how the league is involved in player time allocation.

Take it to an extreme situation - both Lopez and Holiday said they're rather sit than not start, but it wouldn't be hard to imagine a player refusing to be benched (or play off the bench) for what is very clearly non-performance related reasons. Will the team or league fine or punish the player? How will the union feel about that? I'm sure the league really only cares about the perception of tanking, so they're letting the Bulls do the minimum in an attempt to avoid any PR hit that just about everyone should be able to see through (and I personally have no problem with the Bulls tanking here).
   506. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 07, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5634856)
Anthony Davis in his last 9 games: 38 points, 15 rebounds, 6 stocks, and 2 assists on 53/42/85 shooting. Yikes.
   507. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 07, 2018 at 11:15 AM (#5634867)
ben simmons, over the last 20 games:
17 PPG, 7 RPG, 8 APG, 1.5 SPG, 1 BPG
60/00/61, 62% TS%

dario saric, over the last 43 games:
17 PPG, 7 RPG, 3 APG, 1 SPG + BPG
47/41/90, 61% TS%

jj redick, full season:
17 PPG, 3 RPG, 3 APG
45/41/93, 60% TS%

and of course, embiid, for the full season, which is now 50+ games played:
24 PPG, 11 RPG, 3 APG, 2 BPG, 1 SPG
49/30/76, 58% TS%
   508. Booey Posted: March 07, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5634872)
Also, for all the people who complain about predictability, I think the playoffs this year are going to prove you wrong. I think there's only one guarantee - the Warriors and Rockets will play in the WCF and the winner wins the title


That's kinda a big one though...
   509. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 07, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5634890)
@JCameratoNBCS
Here’s a Markelle Fultz 3 from Charlotte:
pic.twitter.com/PBfbajsRSR

that one looks a lot like those pre-game steph curry shots from the 18th row at half-court.
@JCameratoNBCS
Here’s another look at Fultz 3s:
pic.twitter.com/Uitqw4nd1Z
   510. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 07, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5634893)
Pitt often didn’t attract the best high school prospects in the country, but it kept getting players who fit its efficient, defense-minded system. Pitt won a lot of games. Pitt was fun.

And then it wasn’t. Pitt finished this season with 19 consecutive defeats, and it went 0-19 in the ACC, including a season-ending loss to Notre Dame on Tuesday in the first round of the ACC tournament. The Panthers are the only Division I program not to win a game in conference play this year.
Pitt 30 point losses in 13 seasons under Jamie Dixon: Zero.
Pitt 30 point losses under Kevin Stallings: 5.
— Andrew Fillipponi (@ThePoniExpress) February 11, 2018

link
   511. Booey Posted: March 07, 2018 at 12:24 PM (#5634924)
Are the 1982 (Kareem, Magic, McAdoo)/2004 Lakers (Shaq, Kobe, Malone) the only team that had 3 guys who would win NBA MVPs on their roster at the same time?


1985/1986 Sixers (Dr J, Moses, Chuck)
   512. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 07, 2018 at 12:40 PM (#5634941)
2018-19 Sixers (LeBron, Simmons, Embiid)
   513. smileyy Posted: March 07, 2018 at 01:18 PM (#5634977)
The (presumptive) MVPs in 3 straight drafts is impressive. Is trading Harden one of the worst GM/owner decisions of all-time? I don't recall any of the 3 being unhappy being on the same team, though Harden likely would not be HARDEN while sharing the court with Durant and Westbrook.
   514. smileyy Posted: March 07, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5634979)
6 bpg over 9 games? That's fearsome. Fear the Brow!

Has STIGGLES managed to get Davis onto the Sixers somehow? Like, a trade involving LeBron or something?
   515. Booey Posted: March 07, 2018 at 03:19 PM (#5635034)
6 bpg over 9 games?


I think that was stocks (steals + blocks). Still...
   516. smileyy Posted: March 07, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5635036)
Ah...thought that was an auto correct typo.
   517. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 07, 2018 at 03:47 PM (#5635049)
6 bpg over 9 games? That's fearsome. Fear the Brow!

Has STIGGLES managed to get Davis onto the Sixers somehow? Like, a trade involving LeBron or something?

i could argue that a package of saric/fultz/2018 LAL #1 is significantly better than the package CHI got for jimmy butler, but noone wants to hear that with fultz shooting like carl lewis sings.

if the following things happen over the next 18 months, the sixers could absolutely wind up with davis, lebron, simmons and embiid going into 2019/20:

lebron signs with the sixers this summer
fultz recovers
the sixers draft someone good with the lakers pick
davis demands out of new orleans after next year


the scariest thing about that isn't actually anthony davis, it's that davis's name could be replaced by butler, kawhi, lillard, westbrook, giannis, etc, or any potential disgruntled superstar.
   518. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 07, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5635057)
i could argue that a package of saric/fultz/2018 LAL #1 is significantly better than the package CHI got for jimmy butler, but noone wants to hear that with fultz shooting like carl lewis sings.

Even if the first part were true, AD is worth more than Jimmy.
   519. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: March 07, 2018 at 04:47 PM (#5635073)
Anthony Davis is really amazing during the four to six weeks a year that he's healthy.

I still don't enjoy watching Harden, I guess I'm an outlier on that one.


I'm finally and for the first time able to enjoy watching Harden, now that I've finally found a way to skip instantly past free throws while watching yesterday's games.
   520. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 07, 2018 at 04:50 PM (#5635075)
I find my enjoyment of James Harden's game is almost entirely a question of whether I'm rooting for his opponent or not. If so, his foul-drawing drives me nuts. If not, I can appreciate a craftsman at work.
   521. PJ Martinez Posted: March 07, 2018 at 05:08 PM (#5635079)
Anthony Davis is really amazing during the four to six weeks a year that he's healthy.

He's missed, what, six games this year? And he missed seven all of last year. He's never played fewer than sixty games in a season. He's also played more than seventy just once (though he could do so again this year, which would mean two years in a row), so I understand the reputation, of course, but it's possibly overblown.
   522. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 07, 2018 at 05:29 PM (#5635083)
Even if the first part were true, AD is worth more than Jimmy.
davis is on another level, but butler was still a top 10 player, in his prime, with a reasonable contract.

assuming fultz is healthy, the quality of the packages are in proportion to the quality of the players. markkanen = LAL pick; saric >> lavine (without an ACL); healthy fultz >>> dunn.
   523. PJ Martinez Posted: March 07, 2018 at 06:30 PM (#5635097)
Butler's contract is a bit of a bargain, but he's more than three years older than Davis, so there's the difference between trading for a 28-year-old and trading for a 25-year-old who's already better than the 28-year-old has ever been. Plus, when the Butler deal happened, everyone thought Chicago didn't get enough; even though things worked out a little better than expected for them, I don't think it establishes much of a benchmark. Finally, Markannen was the seventh pick; there's a pretty good chance the LAL pick is no. 11 -- that's where'd it be if the lottery happened tomorrow and everything went according to the odds.

What will matter, in a Davis trade, is whether Philly is willing and able to give up more than Boston, LA, Phoenix, etc. The Sixers would be in the conversation, I'm sure, but unless Fultz impresses quickly or that pick lands a stud, I wouldn't expect them to come out on top.
   524. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 07, 2018 at 10:28 PM (#5635185)
Butler's contract is a bit of a bargain, but he's more than three years older than Davis, so there's the difference between trading for a 28-year-old and trading for a 25-year-old who's already better than the 28-year-old has ever been. Plus, when the Butler deal happened, everyone thought Chicago didn't get enough; even though things worked out a little better than expected for them, I don't think it establishes much of a benchmark. Finally, Markannen was the seventh pick; there's a pretty good chance the LAL pick is no. 11 -- that's where'd it be if the lottery happened tomorrow and everything went according to the odds.

nearly every time a top 30 player gets traded, the immediate reaction is that the return wasn't enough. the only exceptions i can remember off the top of my head are kyrie to BOS, melo to NYK and deron williams to NJ.

the difference in quality between the 7th pick in one year and the 11th pick in another year can vary wildly. in this case, i don't think it's significant.
What will matter, in a Davis trade, is whether Philly is willing and able to give up more than Boston, LA, Phoenix, etc. The Sixers would be in the conversation, I'm sure, but unless Fultz impresses quickly or that pick lands a stud, I wouldn't expect them to come out on top.

phoenix doesn't matter.
boston...who's the last team to get the better end of a danny ainge trade?
LAL: i think it'd take ball and ingram to top a potential sixers offer, but that's worth it for davis. for kawhi? for kemba? for lillard? for krisaps? for butler? not so much.


NYK fans: does the latverian unicorn get put on the market this summer?
   525. spivey Posted: March 07, 2018 at 10:30 PM (#5635186)
boston...who's the last team to get the better end of a danny ainge trade?

Should have been Charlotte. Oh my goodness how beautiful that would have been to ruin all of this stupid ####### mystique about Danny Ainge.
   526. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 07, 2018 at 10:40 PM (#5635191)
Should have been Charlotte. Oh my goodness how beautiful that would have been to ruin all of this stupid ####### mystique about Danny Ainge.

one bad trade would not zero out ainge's reputation, it would just inspire conspiracy theories that ainge purposefully tanked one trade to throw people off his scent.
   527. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 07, 2018 at 11:16 PM (#5635200)
NYK fans: does the latverian unicorn get put on the market this summer?
ah, ####.

now that i'm thinking about it, kristaps is the perfect target for the sixers this summer. NYK may not want to pay him because he's injury prone, he may not want to stay there because NYK is a terrible organization, and the sixers might be able to get him because noone else would be willing to pay a premium while he's still rehabbing a torn ACL.

porzingis would fit beautifully on offense, he'd add a ton of length and athleticism on defense, and he could kick over to the 5 when embiid is resting, "resting" or injured.

the sixers could also use the trade to dump enough salary to create max cap space for lebron.


G: simmons -- mcconnell / ???
W: covington -- redick
W: lebron -- anderson / korkmaz
F: porzingis -- bolden / ???
F: embiid -- o'quinn
   528. tshipman Posted: March 08, 2018 at 12:06 AM (#5635206)
porzingis would fit beautifully on offense, he'd add a ton of length and athleticism on defense, and he could kick over to the 5 when embiid is resting, "resting" or injured.


Porzingis is like the worst possible fit next to Embiid. They both require the ball to be effective, are best as help defenders, and are super tall and injury prone.
   529. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 08, 2018 at 01:17 AM (#5635210)
Porzingis is like the worst possible fit next to Embiid. They both require the ball to be effective, are best as help defenders, and are super tall and injury prone.

1: porzingis doesn't need to be ball dominant to be effective. he's good on the pick and roll, the pick and pop and he's a threat to catch and shoot. those things are also more or less true for embiid, but he actually does need the ball to score in the post and get to the FT line.
2: embiid is a damn good on-ball defender. with him and porzingis on the floor, one of them will always be available to help from the weak side.
3: the injury prone thing isn't good, but the upside on both ends is massive.
   530. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: March 08, 2018 at 09:15 AM (#5635278)
Porzingis is like the worst possible fit next to Embiid. They both require the ball to be effective, are best as help defenders, and are super tall and injury prone.


Yeah, but given how fragile both of them are the redundancy would be nice!
   531. Paul d mobile Posted: March 08, 2018 at 09:19 AM (#5635280)
This DeRozan dunk from last night was awesome.

Not sure how Detroit lets that happen with 7 seconds left in a one point game though.
   532. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: March 08, 2018 at 09:24 AM (#5635283)
I'm have Jazz-Pacers from last night on, still in the first quarter... Gobert took exception to some uncalled contact from Myles Turner, then went down the other end and crushed Oladipo going in for a layup. Oladipo stayed down for a while, during which Gobert pointed angrily and yelled something at the ref, who promptly teed him him--I think for admitting the hard foul on Oladipo was retaliatory.

Don't think I've seen Gobert that pissed off before.

----------------------------

Incidentally, I generally only want to watch a game if it's not a mismatch and both teams are trying their damnedest to win; this late in the season it gets difficult finding games worth watching. Almost no game involving a team on the back end of a back-to-back is worth watching, and a third of the league is tanking and/or indifferent now. There's rarely more than one interesting game a night, sometimes none. Utah-Indiana was the only one last night. Thank goodness for the eight team battle royale for the last six playoff spots in the West.

I guess maybe I should just be more willing to watch a superstar punk a bad/tanking team, as in New Orleans-Sacramento? I can always turn it off when the good team is up 20 in the third quarter and the superstar calls it a night. But I have trouble investing in watching a game if the outcome isn't in doubt.
   533. stanmvp48 Posted: March 08, 2018 at 10:16 AM (#5635312)
Did anyone see the end of the Lakers-Orlando game?
   534. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 08, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5635341)
   535. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: March 08, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5635355)
thibs just can't help himself, huh?
   536. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 08, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5635377)
Did anyone see the end of the Lakers-Orlando game?
I'm not familiar with the rules, but it seems to me the obvious solution to the clock issue would be to just reset the clock to where it was before and give the Magic a re-do. Instead, through no fault of their own, they lose the possession and any shot at tying or winning the game. I guess the Lakers were fine with it, but the Laker announcers were completely befuddled and didn't sound at all happy about the way it all went down. I don't blame the Magic for being upset.
   537. Booey Posted: March 08, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5635388)
Are the officials allowed to use discretion in an instance like this where the textbook interpretation of a rule is clearly unfair to one of the teams?
   538. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 08, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5635400)
Incidentally, I generally only want to watch a game if it's not a mismatch and both teams are trying their damnedest to win; this late in the season it gets difficult finding games worth watching. Almost no game involving a team on the back end of a back-to-back is worth watching, and a third of the league is tanking and/or indifferent now. There's rarely more than one interesting game a night, sometimes none. Utah-Indiana was the only one last night. Thank goodness for the eight team battle royale for the last six playoff spots in the West.

i think that's harsh. cavs/nugs was a good matchup, so was det/tor, and both of those games were on ESPN.

the sixers are now 7 games up on the 9-seed pistons with 19 games left. it's possible that they'll screw it up, but that's not gonna happen. the process is going to the playoffs.
   539. aberg Posted: March 08, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5635446)
I have decided to be relentlessly positive about the Wolves signing Rose.

We got a former MVP! Every former MVP has made the HOF and Rose has a long way to go, so he is due for a big run with the Wolves! He just needed to get reunited with Thibs. Look out Warriors.
   540. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: March 08, 2018 at 12:34 PM (#5635454)

i think that's harsh. cavs/nugs was a good matchup, so was det/tor, and both of those games were on ESPN.


Nuggets and Raptors both on the back end of a back-to-back. Over time I've just gotten to the point where I don't watch those games. Teams very noticeably play worse in those games and I really wish the NBA would just get rid of them.

Nuggets and Raptors are both among my five or six favorite teams to watch, though.
   541. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 08, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5635533)
the process is going to the playoffs.


and, this is my preference for playoff opponents, in order:
CLE
IND
MIA
WAS
BOS
MIL
TOR
   542. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 08, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5635542)
I have decided to be relentlessly positive about the Wolves signing Rose.


The season is ... sadly over. Not really, of course, the young players need to play, especially without Butler, but relative to expectations ... over.

I don't think Rose moves the bar at all either way and in fact I don't think it means anything, other than Thibs has well and truly filled his pre-hire Bingo card. Pretty much every single expectation for him pre-hire has been met. Well except for the defense one. That one is kind of sitting there, dead in the sun. Maybe next year it will spring to life on the backs of a rejuvenated Towns and Wiggins and with a healthy Butler, but until then ... sigh.

The saddest part about this season is that it is still the best season in a long long time for the Wolves.
   543. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 08, 2018 at 02:43 PM (#5635558)
I'm no longer angry or get upset when Rose pops up in the news. I just feel sad. Not exactly for him, but also a little for him.
   544. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 08, 2018 at 02:43 PM (#5635560)
LOS ANGELES (AP) — Reggie Theus is out as men's basketball coach and Brandon Martin has been let go as athletic director at Cal State Northridge. Campus police are investigating an alleged physical altercation between the men.

University President Dianne Harrison says in a statement that the school is "parting ways" with both men. No reason was given and she made no reference to their alleged encounter in her statement.

According to campus police, Theus filed a complaint of battery against Martin on Tuesday. Martin hired Theus for the job.
   545. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 08, 2018 at 03:11 PM (#5635585)
for anyone who's interested in the 2018 draft, projected top 5 pick (and possible #1 overall pick) michael porter is about to play for the first time this year. tip off is about 10 minutes from now, on something called the SEC network.

he's not expected to start, but he is expected to player about 15-20 minutes.
   546. aberg Posted: March 08, 2018 at 03:19 PM (#5635593)
The season is ... sadly over. Not really, of course, the young players need to play, especially without Butler, but relative to expectations ... over.

I don't think Rose moves the bar at all either way and in fact I don't think it means anything, other than Thibs has well and truly filled his pre-hire Bingo card. Pretty much every single expectation for him pre-hire has been met. Well except for the defense one. That one is kind of sitting there, dead in the sun. Maybe next year it will spring to life on the backs of a rejuvenated Towns and Wiggins and with a healthy Butler, but until then ... sigh.

The saddest part about this season is that it is still the best season in a long long time for the Wolves.


Once they get through the hellish stretch they are in (2 down, 5 to go), the rest of the schedule is pretty friendly. Some of the western morass is also struggling. If Davis is out for awhile, NO is going to really struggle. Neither Denver nor OKC are playing very well right now. If the Wolves can stay as high as 6th, I don't think there's a possible 3 seed who would dominate them if Butler makes it back. Even if they finish 7/8, at least that breaks the postseason streak.
   547. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 08, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5635610)
for anyone who's interested in the 2018 draft, projected top 5 pick (and possible #1 overall pick) michael porter is about to play for the first time this year. tip off is about 10 minutes from now, on something called the SEC network.

he's not expected to start, but he is expected to player about 15-20 minutes.
90 seconds in:

porter is the #1 overall pick.


(that's a joke...but it's not a joke. in literally 90 seconds, porter showed the defensive awareness to rotate and double team, the ability to defend in the paint and on the perimeter, rebounding, off ball movement and he jump started a fast break with a defensive rebound, one dribble, two steps and an outlet pass. he's legit.)
   548. aberg Posted: March 08, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5635614)
for anyone who's interested in the 2018 draft, projected top 5 pick (and possible #1 overall pick) michael porter is about to play for the first time this year. tip off is about 10 minutes from now, on something called the SEC network.

he's not expected to start, but he is expected to player about 15-20 minutes.


It's so weird to me that a guy who was coached by Brandon Roy in HS goes into the draft with the major question being around a long-term injury that could shorten his career.
   549. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 08, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5635623)
I sure hope Porter shows enough, especially that he's healthy. It makes the draft that much better.
   550. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 08, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5635629)
this yante maten guy seems like he has a chance to stick in the NBA. decent size, decent athleticism, low foul rate, low turnover rate, high FT%, great motor, good offensive rebounding, potential stretch 4/small ball 5.

   551. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 08, 2018 at 05:48 PM (#5635664)
Is Brandon Roy still entirely undefeated as a HS basketball coach? He was very recently, and given that the program he took over was not a complete powerhouse, it's pretty impressive. (Ok, I used the powers of google to check, and it looks like he suffered his first coaching loss on Valentine's Day. Still, starting your career with a 51 game winning streak is something.)
   552. aberg Posted: March 08, 2018 at 07:05 PM (#5635679)
Roy's team (Garfield) is so loaded. They have:

J Raan Brooks, who is a top 100 recruit and has decommitted from both USC and St Johns. UW is still after him hard.
PJ Fuller is a JR, highly rated PG. USC and UW both going after him.
Ed Chang moved from Nebraska. He hasn't been used as much so his rating went from 4* to 3*. He is committed to UW, but didn't sign his LOI yet.
Jamon Kemp is Shawn's son.
Pierre Crockrell is a JR who is being recruited by Kansas, Texas Tech, Oregon, and others. He played AAU with Gary Trent Jr. before relocating to WA.
Marjon Beauchamp is only a SO, but he is the #33 player in his class and has offers from Arizona and UW already.
   553. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 08, 2018 at 09:59 PM (#5635754)
Great piece by Steve Francis over at the Players' Tribune.
   554. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 08, 2018 at 10:04 PM (#5635755)
Whiteside and Embiid have a little bit of a rivalry and Embiid has gotten the best of Whiteside for the most part. Whiteside was a bit better tonight though.
   555. PJ Martinez Posted: March 08, 2018 at 10:15 PM (#5635762)
Interesting stat from Micah Adams:

Philly ranks in offensive efficiency:
1st quarter: T-3rd
2nd quarter: 17th
3rd quarter: 17th
4th quarter: (gulp) 29th

Only Memphis has a worse 4th quarter offense.

A youth thing, maybe? Or does Embiid get tired? Both?
   556. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 09, 2018 at 12:08 AM (#5635808)
Whiteside and Embiid have a little bit of a rivalry and Embiid has gotten the best of Whiteside for the most part. Whiteside was a bit better tonight though.

embiid and covington lost this game for the sixers. this could have been, should have been, a win, but those two could not make a damn shot. it also didn't help that simmons disappeared after the 1st quarter.

this is a bad loss. it's not a stepping stone, there's nothing to learn from it. it's just a game that should have been a win, that they pissed away.

Interesting stat from Micah Adams:
Philly ranks in offensive efficiency:
1st quarter: T-3rd
2nd quarter: 17th
3rd quarter: 17th
4th quarter: (gulp) 29th

Only Memphis has a worse 4th quarter offense.
A youth thing, maybe? Or does Embiid get tired? Both?

the sixers have no bench scoring. they get away with it in the first quarter because their starting 5 is so strong, but they lose alot of their scoring potential when the bench rotates in.

the sixers also lack players who can create their own shot off the dribble. it's basically just embiid and redick and neither is very good at it. that's why they traded up for fultz. he is supposed to be that dead eyed assassin that completes their ensemble.

they struggle with turnovers in general, but when officials let 4th quarters turn into rugby, the sixers often crumble. it's hard to run a motion offense when there's an extra hand inside your shirt.


the good news for the sixers is they have some options -- getting redick/belinelli/covington to shoot more 3s, coaxing saric into taking more shots (he had 20 points on 5/10 shooting tonight, which is great, but the sixers might be better with him taking 15+ shots every game instead of 10), getting fultz back. the bad news is most of those options involve taking the ball out of their best players' hands.



signing lebron would singlehandedly fix this problem, btw.
   557. tshipman Posted: March 09, 2018 at 12:36 AM (#5635816)
If you guys haven't already, you owe it to yourselves to listen to the Lowe Post pod with Monty McCutchen.

Some interesting highlights:

Monty is very insistent on being called by his first name. He learns every player's name, even the guys on 10 days, and insists on players calling him by name as well.
Monty says that the standard for an NBA referee isn't perfection, but excellence. In his view, if the ref gets 90%+ of the calls right in the game, fans should keep perspective on bad calls.
Lots more detail in the pod. It's very interesting!
   558. jmurph Posted: March 09, 2018 at 09:46 AM (#5635889)
Philly ranks in offensive efficiency:
1st quarter: T-3rd
2nd quarter: 17th
3rd quarter: 17th
4th quarter: (gulp) 29th

Only Memphis has a worse 4th quarter offense.
A youth thing, maybe? Or does Embiid get tired? Both?

I've never understood why I'm supposed to believe that Brett Brown is a good coach. Everyone I think is smart that talks about the NBA thinks he is, and I'm inclined to defer to them because they're smarter than me. I just don't see it.
   559. jmurph Posted: March 09, 2018 at 09:49 AM (#5635891)
NYK fans: does the latverian unicorn get put on the market this summer?

Hot take #2 for the morning: are we 100% sure Porzingis is/is going to be a perennial all star level of player?
   560. JC in DC Posted: March 09, 2018 at 09:54 AM (#5635896)
Yes, I think KP, bracketing out injury concerns, is an all-star level player. He's got stuff to work on for sure, but he's already an elite talent.

Shifting gears: there are stories, some of which STIGBOMB alludes to constantly, about LBJ's preferred landing spots. How, if at all, does that alter his GOAT narrative? Moses, or someone who recalls, why did Jordan choose Washington in his last seasons? Was it just for a piece of ownership? The point of my question is, why didn't he seek out a place a la Barkley, Malone, and perhaps LBJ, where he could get another title or two?
   561. JC in DC Posted: March 09, 2018 at 10:06 AM (#5635903)
Another thing I find interesting: Curry hurt his ankle again last night. We're probably on the downward slope of his career now, right? He's literally about to turn 30 and he is a chronically gimpy ankle. I'm not saying the slope will be steep, or short, but that ankle isn't going away over the rest of his career, and he's now entering his 30s. He's not going to be a 75+ game/yr. player anymore in all likelihood. Time moves fast. And for this year, the ankle certainly makes GS look less inevitable.
   562. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 09, 2018 at 10:10 AM (#5635906)
And for this year, the ankle certainly makes GS look less inevitable.


Nothing would make me happier* than being wrong about the inevitability of this year.

* An exaggeration. There are literally thousands of things that would make me happier.
   563. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 09, 2018 at 10:22 AM (#5635918)
Moses, or someone who recalls, why did Jordan choose Washington in his last seasons?

Remember, he had been retired from the Bulls the 2nd time for 3 years before he came back. He already had a piece of ownership in the Wiz and was the team Pres or something, but the league made him sell his stake before he could play again. I think it was his intention to rebuy after he played, but things changed. So it probably was purely an investment thing.

Now to google to check my memory....

Basketball-Ref lists him as a Wiz exec 1/19/00-5/7/03, which includes this signing:
September 25, 2001: Signed Michael Jordan as a free agent.

Wikipedia:
After the season, Wizards' majority owner Abe Pollin fired Jordan as team president, much to the shock of teammates, associates, and the public. Michael Jordan felt he was betrayed, thinking that he would get his ownership back after his playing days ended, but Pollin justified Jordan's dismissal by noting that Jordan had detrimental effects on the team, such as benching Larry Hughes for Tyronn Lue, making poor trades, and squandering the teams' 2001 1st round draft pick on high schooler Kwame Brown who never panned out. Without Michael in the fold the following year, the Washington Wizards were not expected to win, and they didn’t. Despite the signing of future All-Star point guard Gilbert Arenas, which had been made possible by Jordan's previous cap-clearing maneuvers as a team executive, the team stumbled to a 25-57 record in the 2003-04 season.

After his third retirement, Jordan assumed that he would be able to return to his front office position as Director of Basketball Operations with the Wizards.[122] However, his previous tenure in the Wizards' front office had produced the aforementioned mixed results and may have also influenced the trade of Richard "Rip" Hamilton for Jerry Stackhouse (although Jordan was not technically Director of Basketball Operations in 2002).[97] On May 7, 2003, Wizards owner Abe Pollin fired Jordan as Washington's President of Basketball Operations.[97] Jordan later stated that he felt betrayed, and that if he had known he would be fired upon retiring he never would have come back to play for the Wizards.[52]
   564. jmurph Posted: March 09, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5635921)
Basketball-Ref lists him as a Wiz exec 1/19/00-5/7/03, which includes this signing:
September 25, 2001: Signed Michael Jordan as a free agent.

He should probably get more credit for coaxing the greatest player of all time out of retirement.
   565. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 09, 2018 at 10:27 AM (#5635924)
With Curry, I don't think the Warriors beating the Rockets is inevitable. Houston is much better than I thought possible when they made the Paul trade.
   566. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 09, 2018 at 10:35 AM (#5635933)
I've never understood why I'm supposed to believe that Brett Brown is a good coach. Everyone I think is smart that talks about the NBA thinks he is, and I'm inclined to defer to them because they're smarter than me. I just don't see it.

i think people are hesitant to criticize brown because of how hopeless his rosters have been up until now. people give him credit when something works, but they don't really blame him when something doesn't.

he also has a pretty great resume. he coached around the world, and was a longtime spurs assistant.

and the sixers have actually played pretty decent defense during his tenure. for a perpetually young team, with a revolving door of a roster, that's not a bad indication of some coaching talent.
   567. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 09, 2018 at 10:39 AM (#5635938)
Maybe Brown is a good coach in getting a roster of Process victims to over perform, but a poor one when trying to move a team up a tier in quality of play. I don't know, but I think it's important to remember that coaches are just as subject to context and roster composition and the vagaries of the season as players, when trying to assess their relative quality.
   568. jmurph Posted: March 09, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5635957)
The season is ... sadly over. Not really, of course, the young players need to play, especially without Butler, but relative to expectations ... over.

Saw a version of this thought on twitter last night: it appears that the Wolves entire turnaround/improvement this year can be chalked up to employing Jimmy Butler (I'd add Taj to that statement). Which is certainly a thing Thibs gets credit for, but it's still a little disappointing relative to expectations when he was hired.
   569. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 09, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5635962)
Shifting gears: there are stories, some of which STIGBOMB alludes to constantly, about LBJ's preferred landing spots. How, if at all, does that alter his GOAT narrative? Moses, or someone who recalls, why did Jordan choose Washington in his last seasons? Was it just for a piece of ownership? The point of my question is, why didn't he seek out a place a la Barkley, Malone, and perhaps LBJ, where he could get another title or two?

GOAT is 90% narrative and lebron's career will never tell a story as good as wilt, russell, kareem, jordan, embiid.
Hot take #2 for the morning: are we 100% sure Porzingis is/is going to be a perennial all star level of player?
100% sure? no.

porzingis's reputation, to this point in his career, is better than his actual performance. there are reasons for that (NYC, shooting from 28 feet, dunks, points, unicorn), but his efficiency is mediocre and his defense is more flashy than effective.
   570. Conor Posted: March 09, 2018 at 11:18 AM (#5635985)

porzingis's reputation, to this point in his career, is better than his actual performance. there are reasons for that (NYC, shooting from 28 feet, dunks, points, unicorn), but his efficiency is poor and his defense is more flashy than effective.


The efficiency part I can buy, but his rim protection #'s are excellent, and the Knicks defense is 4.3 per 100 worse when he sits.

This is a fun stat, I think.

When Porzingis plays, the Knicks have a 109.5 defensive rating.
When he sits, they are at 114.2
When he plays with Kanter, they are at 110.3.
When he plays without Kanter, they are at 107.9
And when Kanter plays and Porzingis sits, they have a 123.9 defensive rating.

I think his offense needs some work for sure, he takes too many long jumpers, but I think he is a good defensive player
   571. jmurph Posted: March 09, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5635993)
I think his offense needs some work for sure, he takes too many long jumpers, but I think he is a good defensive player

He does essentially nothing without the ball on offense. And even with the ball it's largely bad outside shots (he is obviously an elite 3 point shooter for a big, but sub 44% from the field overall is pretty horrific). He never passes. He has poor rebounding numbers. I have no idea if that's bad instincts or he's unmotivated, or it's laziness or he's in bad shape, or some combination of all of those things.

I'm being overly harsh, as he's still very young and has a ton of talent. But I think the way stiggles puts it sums him up for me so far:
porzingis's reputation, to this point in his career, is better than his actual performance.
   572. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 09, 2018 at 12:07 PM (#5636026)
The efficiency part I can buy, but his rim protection #'s are excellent, and the Knicks defense is 4.3 per 100 worse when he sits.

This is a fun stat, I think.

When Porzingis plays, the Knicks have a 109.5 defensive rating.
When he sits, they are at 114.2
When he plays with Kanter, they are at 110.3.
When he plays without Kanter, they are at 107.9
And when Kanter plays and Porzingis sits, they have a 123.9 defensive rating.

I think his offense needs some work for sure, he takes too many long jumpers, but I think he is a good defensive player

i think it's arguable whether or not porzingis has been a good defender, but even if you give him the benefit of the doubt, "good" and "overrated" are not mutually exclusive.

he has the potential to be great (on both ends of the floor), but he has a lot of work to do to get there.
   573. Conor Posted: March 09, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5636039)
I think most of the offensive criticisms are fair, he handles double teams very poorly, so his assist numbers are pretty brutal. He isn't that strong, so he gets moved pretty easily and settles for a lot of long-ish 2 pointers.

I think he's a good defensive player though. I was more taking issue with "flashy as opposed to effective". His rim protection numbers are good, the team defends better with him on the court, and even though the rebounding numbers aren't great, the team rebounds a little better when he plays.

For the rim protection #'s, I picked 100 as the minimum for field goal attempts defended, seemed like a reasonable number, he's third in the nba this year. If you made it 150 instead, he'd be first. (The two guys ahead of him, Zach Collins and Paul Millsap, are right around 110).
   574. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 09, 2018 at 01:09 PM (#5636073)
Monty says that the standard for an NBA referee isn't perfection, but excellence. In his view, if the ref gets 90%+ of the calls right in the game, fans should keep perspective on bad calls.


I loved the ep too, tship. And this is something in both baseball and basketball I've started to accept as most replays don't improve the quality of the game for me and just slow down the action. I don't want to get rid of replay completely, but I could do without almost all replays that stop action in the first 45 or so minutes of the game (especially clear path fouls, which they discuss).
   575. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: March 09, 2018 at 01:22 PM (#5636086)
Boy has Robert Covington been a horror show basically since the day he signed his big extension. I think he's been playing through several injuries but, if true, the Sixers probably should just let him rest because he isn't helping them.

There's no team in the league that fouls hard as consistently as Miami does. When those guys send you to the line they get their money's worth. Just something I've found interesting.
   576. jmurph Posted: March 09, 2018 at 01:37 PM (#5636103)
I'm a Covington skeptic, too, but his contract is much more reasonable after this year- it's basically 10-11-12-13 over the next four. So as long as he remains a good defender and average-ish 3 pt shooter I imagine they'll be happy.
   577. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 09, 2018 at 01:42 PM (#5636106)
I loved the ep too, tship. And this is something in both baseball and basketball I've started to accept as most replays don't improve the quality of the game for me and just slow down the action. I don't want to get rid of replay completely, but I could do without almost all replays that stop action in the first 45 or so minutes of the game (especially clear path fouls, which they discuss).

the problem with replay isn't replay itself, it's the announcers.

rugby gets it right. they mic the ref and the replay official and they sync the TV feed to what they're looking at. it lets fans see how the decision gets made, which adds clarity, is more interesting to watch and speeds up the process.
   578. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 09, 2018 at 01:49 PM (#5636112)
I'm a Covington skeptic, too, but his contract is much more reasonable after this year- it's basically 10-11-12-13 over the next four. So as long as he remains a good defender and average-ish 3 pt shooter I imagine they'll be happy.

the sixers essentially gave covington a 15MM signing bonus this year to lower his cap hit in future years.

he's limited offensively and he has some bad shooting slumps, but he's a hell of a role player when he's making shots.
   579. jmurph Posted: March 09, 2018 at 02:22 PM (#5636139)
Right, in three years Philly is hoping to have three players on a max (Embiid, Simmons, some other free agent/trade acquisition). Having a perfectly cromulent starter/key bench guy locked in at that rate is pretty useful.
   580. JC in DC Posted: March 09, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5636199)
And they'll be defending their back-to-back-to-back titles!
   581. jmurph Posted: March 09, 2018 at 04:01 PM (#5636212)
Well yeah that goes without saying.
   582. aberg Posted: March 09, 2018 at 04:26 PM (#5636227)
rugby gets it right. they mic the ref and the replay official and they sync the TV feed to what they're looking at. it lets fans see how the decision gets made, which adds clarity, is more interesting to watch and speeds up the process.


My problem with replay is it takes drama and emotion out of every play. Especially in football, I never get very excited about a play because I know there is a chance that it can be overturned. By the time the review happens, the tension has mostly dissipated. It's a bigger problem than I think most have acknowledged because it flattens out the emotional roller coaster that is crucial to the allure of watching sports in the first place.
   583. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 09, 2018 at 04:41 PM (#5636240)
My problem with replay is that it promises something it can't deliver, and in exchange, it ruins the pacing of the game. I don't watch football, but I'd rather the Wolves lose on a bad call than win after the game has ground to a halt while there's some stupid replay nonsense happening.
   584. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 09, 2018 at 04:43 PM (#5636242)
My problem with replay is it takes drama and emotion out of every play. Especially in football, I never get very excited about a play because I know there is a chance that it can be overturned. By the time the review happens, the tension has mostly dissipated. It's a bigger problem than I think most have acknowledged because it flattens out the emotional roller coaster that is crucial to the allure of watching sports in the first place.

nah.

i hear you, but what you're describing sounds alot like aging. have you tried using "flaxseed oil"?
   585. Tin Angel Posted: March 09, 2018 at 05:41 PM (#5636264)
If anyone needs some flaxseed oil at this point it's Embiid.
   586. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 09, 2018 at 08:13 PM (#5636307)
Something weird is going on in Toronto. Is Harden broken?
   587. SteveF Posted: March 09, 2018 at 08:52 PM (#5636314)
Something weird is going on in Toronto. Is Harden broken?

Toronto has twice as many 3pt attempts. Very weird.
   588. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 09, 2018 at 08:53 PM (#5636315)
I had sort of forgotten how much I dislike Chris Paul.
   589. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 09, 2018 at 09:08 PM (#5636320)
Oh God, the Toronto Barney is wearing Drakeface. This is humiliating for everybody involved.
   590. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 09, 2018 at 09:26 PM (#5636329)
Please let this be the finals matchup.
   591. Sean Forman Posted: March 09, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5636336)
Replay sucks. If you can't overturn it after two full speed replays it's not worth revisiting and well within the level of randomness I'm willing to accept in a sporting event.. The two referees watching and then kibitzing with the third for 45 seconds just drives me nuts. It's the only end of game thing I'd change about the NBA.
   592. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 09, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5636337)
Holy wow
   593. Paul d mobile Posted: March 09, 2018 at 09:50 PM (#5636340)
Game on NBA.
   594. Tin Angel Posted: March 09, 2018 at 09:53 PM (#5636343)
Toronto celebrating like they won the championship. The announcer called Valanciunas's final two free throws "the most important free throws of his life." It's early March guys.
   595. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 09, 2018 at 09:54 PM (#5636344)
Toronto celebrating like they won the championship. The announcer called Valanciunas's final two free throws "the most important free throws of his life." It's early March guys.

Both things can be true.
   596. tshipman Posted: March 09, 2018 at 10:27 PM (#5636356)
Toronto fans are hilarious.

This is a game you should win.
   597. Howie Menckel Posted: March 09, 2018 at 10:47 PM (#5636358)
any Steve Francis fans in the house?

it's one of those Players Tribune pieces, and some of them are really good. this one.... meanders.

"Four years before I was on that plane with Hakeem telling me we’re going shopping for cashmere suits together — four years before I was about to go play against Gary Payton — I was on the corner of Maple Ave in Takoma Park, Maryland, selling drugs outside the Chinese joint.

My mother had passed away. My father was in a federal penitentiary. We had 18 people living in one apartment. I had dropped out of high school. No scholarships. No GED. No nothing.

This is ’95! I’m watching Allen Iverson killing it for Georgetown just up the road from me, and I’m standing on the corner all day building my little drug empire, just trying not to get robbed, and then at night I’m playing pickup ball in the basement of a firehouse."
   598. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 10, 2018 at 12:03 AM (#5636364)
Someone linked it earlier - beating me to it - and I couldn't disagree with you more. It's fantastic.
   599. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: March 10, 2018 at 01:10 AM (#5636374)
Agree with Moses. Loved the Francis piece.

I share many of the Porzingis concerns brought up above. My hope is pinned on the fact that his issues are more approach based than ability based.
   600. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 10, 2018 at 01:10 AM (#5636375)
landry shamet moves a lot like lonzo ball. he's not as big, as long or as athletic, he doesn't have the same vision or instincts as a passer and his shot selection is less sabr-y, but the way he drives, the way he cuts to the basket, the way he finishes at the rim. he makes quick decisions when the ball rotates or kicks out to him. he has a great feel for spacing, which helps him as a cutter and as a spot-up shooter. he doesn't have much wiggle, but he uses his size and changes of pace to drive past defenders.

that kind of stuff is pure lonzo.

he can score in the mid-range, and he's got a variety of floaters that should serve him well in the NBA.

i'm not sure he's athletic enough or a good enough defender to be more than an 8th or 9th man.

i wouldn't hate it if the sixers took him in the mid-20s. his cuts and spot ups are right out of their playbook and he'd be a good second ballhandler. limited potential, though. his realistic upside is an efficient 14 and 5, without killing you on defense. that's valuable, but not exactly rare.
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