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Saturday, February 17, 2018

OT - 2017-18 NBA thread (All-Star Weekend to End of Time edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  eliminationist rhetoric and precognition.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: February 17, 2018 at 02:09 AM | 6537 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   5401. smileyy Posted: May 28, 2018 at 03:53 PM (#5680754)
Hot take: flip
   5402. smileyy Posted: May 28, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5680755)
If I had the #1 overall pick in the all-time draft and wanted Magic I'd trade down to at least the 4 and pick up an additional draft pick or two.
   5403. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5680758)
Magic is definitely better than Thompson in a vacuum, but do you get diminishing returns with a second lead ballhandler (you have 2.5 if you count Durant)? Klay's skills are a perfect complement to the rest of the Warriors, imo he is the Apex 3+D player in the league right now. Just enough off the bounce juice to exploit collapsing defenses, but not so much that you need to cater to him. Plus chemistry wise his chill-to-the-point-of-being-stoned personality and his contentment being the 3rd/4th banana and doing his own thing is pretty unique amongst other players in the top 30 in the league.
   5404. strong silence Posted: May 28, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5680760)
Probably? He had an unequalled ability to find any open player.
   5405. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5680761)
I mean, how could Magic fit in personality wise better than Klay? Do we even know what his take is on scaffolding in NYC? Can he be an active member of the community and spit the truth like Klay?
   5406. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5680763)
I mean yeah, I'd make that trade and take my chances to figure it out, but it probably wouldn't be as much of a boost as you would think given the overall difference in talent.
   5407. strong silence Posted: May 28, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5680764)
5398 puts my thought well. He did drag Worthy. But also pushed Kareem. Kareem would not be in the GOAT conversation without Magic.
   5408. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5680766)
So, Iggy's out, which hurts GSW.

And, Marcus Smart kicks off free agency by making it clear he's worth a lot of $$$. I'd be very hesitant to sign that guy, with his limitations and physicality, to big money.
   5409. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: May 28, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5680768)
Plus chemistry wise his chill-to-the-point-of-being-stoned personality

FTFY.
   5410. strong silence Posted: May 28, 2018 at 04:22 PM (#5680774)
I have forgotten Game 6 in 1980.

Magic + good and decent players (Chones, Nixon, Wilkes, Cooper) beat Cheeks, Erving, Dawkins, Jones, Hollins.

Without Kareem. !

I'll change my opinion: Magic could carry this Cleveland team as far as LeBron has.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198005160PHI.html
   5411. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 28, 2018 at 05:01 PM (#5680792)
Neil Paine's take in 538 on LeBron's "masterpice":
All things considered, then, this NBA Finals run has to be considered one of James’ crowning achievements. Although James talked up his supporting cast in his postgame comments, I went back and re-ran the numbers from this story, in which we used Basketball-Reference’s Box Plus/Minus to estimate the true talent4 of every player LeBron played with on an NBA Finals run. And that method says that this is easily the worst crop of teammates James has ever dragged to an NBA Finals — even worse than the one he had while being swept by the San Antonio Spurs as a 22-year-old in 2007...

That means James and the Cavs are destined to be a heavy underdog in the Finals, whether they’ll face the Houston Rockets or Golden State Warriors. But what else is new? Much of James’ poor NBA Finals record (he’s 3-5 all-time in championship series) is because he’s gone into the matchup facing such long odds in the first place. That’s a direct product of his ability to carry shorthanded teams deeper into the playoffs than any other player would be able to — and in Sunday night’s win, James just provided the best example of that yet.

AFAIC this cements LeBron's career as the GOAT. No knock against Jordan, but no player's ever done as much with as little as LeBron has in both of his runs with the Cavs.
   5412. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: May 28, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5680793)
GSW is currently given odds of over 60% to be NBA champion, and are (obviously) significant favorites tonight.
   5413. Howie Menckel Posted: May 28, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5680795)
I picture Ivan Lendl - whose matching 3-5 record I've mentioned in a string of 8 consecutive U.S. Open tennis tournaments - gave LeBron a golf clap last night.
   5414. tshipman Posted: May 28, 2018 at 05:38 PM (#5680808)
Re: LeBron this year: I think the backpicks.com guy's framework is really helpful to understand LeBron's effort this postseason.

LeBron is raising his team's floor to a higher degree than ever, perhaps. With LeBron on the court, the Cavs simply do not bottom out because they can throw it to LeBron.

However, he's not very scalable. No one else on the Cavs looks like they're worth a damn, but in part that is due to how the Cavs are playing.

If Magic were playing at his peak instead of LeBron, the Cavs might be worse, might be better, but they'd look very, very different.

GSW is currently given odds of over 60% to be NBA champion, and are (obviously) significant favorites tonight.


I think Houston should be favored.
   5415. SteveF Posted: May 28, 2018 at 05:59 PM (#5680812)
I think the backpicks.com guy's framework is really helpful to understand LeBron's effort this postseason.

Good call. That's a really interesting site and a place I'd recommend to those that care about GOAT discussions.
   5416. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 28, 2018 at 06:15 PM (#5680818)
Kyrie Irving for Kris Dunn and #7 is laughable. I thought these hypothetical trades were only made when beneficial to the 6ers.
   5417. SteveF Posted: May 28, 2018 at 06:29 PM (#5680820)
I thought these hypothetical trades were only made when beneficial to the 6ers.

That hypothetical trade would be beneficial to the sixers.
   5418. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 07:03 PM (#5680823)
BTF RT:
Latest on Chris Paul from a Rockets source, "He’s trying his best."

— Marc J. Spears (@MarcJSpearsESPN) May 28, 2018


There's no way he plays right? Or if he does, I don't think there's any way that's a good idea.
   5419. JJ1986 Posted: May 28, 2018 at 07:11 PM (#5680826)
I predict that Paul will try to play but be too limited to help at all.
   5420. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 07:21 PM (#5680829)
BTF RT:

Chris Paul will not play in Game 7, Mike D'Antoni says.

— Anthony Slater (@anthonyVslater) May 28, 2018
   5421. it's hittin' 53450n. Posted: May 28, 2018 at 07:45 PM (#5680834)
@RobDauster
Here’s video, courtesy @astrait25, of Joel Embiid bouncing a ball off a dude’s face and then windmilling on his head at a park at 9th and South in Philly. Phenomenal. pic.twitter.com/XS99pFhXat
   5422. PJ Martinez Posted: May 28, 2018 at 08:36 PM (#5680846)
I hope somebody in that game called Embiid for traveling on that play.

Apparently Aron Baynes broke his nose in Game 6. He's getting surgery. He added a lot more to the team than I was expecting; I hope the Celtics bring him back.
   5423. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:01 PM (#5680850)
I really dislike Reggie Miller and cannot believe he's calling these games.
   5424. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:02 PM (#5680851)
This is it folks! Not having CP3 takes some of the hype out of this game, but I've been loving the game a day pace of the conference finals, and having the thread to watch along with. I love Golden State of Mind but I think if I game threaded there I'd go insane.
   5425. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:04 PM (#5680852)
Holy crap, they called that a foul on Looney?
   5426. SteveF Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:07 PM (#5680853)
1:12 gone and already in the penalty.
   5427. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:09 PM (#5680854)
Well, that was an ugly turnover.
   5428. JJ1986 Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:09 PM (#5680855)
Sloppy turnovers from Houston.
   5429. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:11 PM (#5680856)
Well, Klay is probably on the bench for the rest of the half. Warriors just need to weather these minutes.
   5430. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:11 PM (#5680857)
Stupid play by Thompson.
   5431. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:13 PM (#5680859)
Halftime feels forever away right now.
   5432. Tin Angel Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:14 PM (#5680861)
I really dislike Reggie Miller and cannot believe he's calling these games.


Yeah, I mean I realize the idea for most businesses is money over efficiency/talent, but Miller and Webber calling this game is just like...are you actively choosing the worst people? Just ####### awful.
   5433. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:15 PM (#5680862)
If Houston wins this game I don't know if I'll be more impressed with them or more disappointed in Golden State. I'll watch and see I suppose.
   5434. JJ1986 Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:15 PM (#5680863)
Brent Barry should be the lead analyst for TNT and Doris Burke should be the lead analyst for ESPN.
   5435. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:15 PM (#5680864)
I think Webber is much better than Miller. I'd take Webber alone with Marv (who is wrong all the time, and has been wrong twice already tonight), or with someone else, but Reggie's a doof. Gotta play Klay with two fouls because ... there's no tomorrow. WTF????
   5436. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:15 PM (#5680865)
Halftime feels forever away right now.

As someone rooting for HOU I feel the same. Every amount of time feels like too much time given how explosive GSW's offense is.

EDIT: This whole announce team is terrible. Marv has lost his fastball.
   5437. JJ1986 Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:17 PM (#5680866)
h-a capella.
   5438. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:18 PM (#5680867)
I don't like the strategy of your non-centers intentionally fouling Capela when Golden State is already down Thompson for the half.
   5439. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:18 PM (#5680870)
Has Gerald Green every seen a shot he didn't like?
   5440. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:21 PM (#5680871)
Jesus, that last KD shot was a NO NO NO YES shot the way he's been going. GS looks out of sorts on offense without Klay's movement.
   5441. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:24 PM (#5680873)
In case anyone was wondering, Gerald Green averaged 11.5 3 point attempts per 36 minutes this season. That's absurd.
   5442. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:24 PM (#5680874)
Part of me feels like GSW made a mistake in shortening their bench so much and rendering their depth inconsequential. I think they could have found minutes for alternative lineups to shake up Houston or wear them down.
   5443. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:26 PM (#5680875)
GSW's spacing is awful. Really terrible.
   5444. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:28 PM (#5680877)
GSW's depth is a lot worse than it was last year. Iguodala is hurt, Livingston is old and hitting the wall, Swaggy P, recipient of the full taxpayer MLE, has not worked out, Jordan Bell started off strong but missed the last part of the regular season, and then you're doing to G League callup Quinn Cook, who didn't have a guaranteed contract until the last couple weeks of the season when Curry got hurt. McCaw regressed in year two, was a second round pick and then got hurt to end the season.
   5445. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:28 PM (#5680878)
This game's got that frantic, Game 7 vibe going on.
   5446. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:28 PM (#5680879)
Oh yeah, I forgot about Omri Casspi, who started off the season well, but bizarrely refused to shoot open 3s even though he's been a plus 3 point shooter, and then hurt is back and never really recovered.
   5447. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:30 PM (#5680880)
Also, Jordan Bell, if you can hear me, not everything needs to be a !#@$#@$%#@% putback dunk, rook. Just rebound the damn ball.
   5448. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:32 PM (#5680881)
Reggie Miller has a bizarre love affair with Joe Johnson.
   5449. JJ1986 Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:32 PM (#5680882)
It would be nice to see a replay of the out-of-bounds that d'Antoni is pissed about.
   5450. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:33 PM (#5680883)
Yikes, is there really a foul to give there Marv?
   5451. JJ1986 Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:33 PM (#5680884)
Curry and Durant are going to play the whole quarter. I'll bet Durant starts the second too.
   5452. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:35 PM (#5680885)
Oh, I guess Marv was right but the bonus graphic on the score wasn't... come on TNT.
   5453. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5680886)
IIRC, one of the Jazz fans here is Dr. of some sort? Having a hard time figuring out why Igoudala has been missing for so long and haven't seen any good reports on it.
   5454. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5680887)
You know Houston's playing them tough. A lot of that is the Warriors being sloppy, but all considered I think I'd take Houston's shots over Golden State's in the first there. Paul has mostly slayed his playoff demons this year. This would cure a lot of past playoff success baggage for Harden, too.

Also someone mentioned it up thread and I agree - Houston winning this and Paul unable to really play or be effective does leave a bit of a door open in the Finals.
   5455. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5680888)
TNT's production sucks.
   5456. Tin Angel Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5680889)
Part of me feels like GSW made a mistake in shortening their bench so much and rendering their depth inconsequential. I think they could have found minutes for alternative lineups to shake up Houston or wear them down.


Yep...why do they have three centers on the roster, none of whom barely play?
   5457. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:38 PM (#5680890)
IIRC, one of the Jazz fans here is Dr. of some sort? Having a hard time figuring out why Igoudala has been missing for so long and haven't seen any good reports on it.


Has a bone bruise, which wasn't originally diagnosed. It's typically a multiweek injury.
   5458. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:38 PM (#5680891)
IIRC, one of the Jazz fans here is Dr. of some sort? Having a hard time figuring out why Igoudala has been missing for so long and haven't seen any good reports on it.

Kerr said it's a bone bruise. I think it's one of those slow healing injuries because it's in your legs.
   5459. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:39 PM (#5680892)
It's amazing fans are seeing replays we're not.
   5460. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:39 PM (#5680893)
Eric Gordon has shown me something in this playoff series. His ability off the bounce is more than I gave him credit for.
   5461. JJ1986 Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5680894)
Yep...why do they have three centers on the roster, none of whom barely play?
Three is underestimating it. They have 4 glued to the bench - Jones, Pachulia, McGee and West - and only have been playing Bell sparingly.
   5462. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:41 PM (#5680895)
To be fair most of their centers did play during the regular season. This is a unique matchup both ways. Pelton made the point on twitter that Houston also has 6 centers if you count Ryan Anderson as one.
   5463. smileyy Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:42 PM (#5680896)
Thanks for the backpicks.com link. Really good stuff.
   5464. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:42 PM (#5680897)
Refs are allowing physical play. I wouldn't go so far as to say there've been clear missed calls, but Houston is being more physical on loose balls and on some off ball stuff, and they're not getting called on it.

Road games are tough, yo.
   5465. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:43 PM (#5680898)
Yep...why do they have three centers on the roster, none of whom barely play?
Three is underestimating it. They have 4 glued to the bench - Jones, Pachulia, McGee and West - and only have been playing Bell sparingly.


Each individual one has some justification, but yeah collectively this is clearly a roster construction screw up by the front office. Given that they already reached into the G League for Quinn Cook, it's mostly been a few key decisions turning out wrong when putting the wing rotation together.
   5466. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:44 PM (#5680899)
Thanks for the bone bruise info, all.
   5467. JJ1986 Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:44 PM (#5680900)
To be fair most of their centers did play during the regular season.
Yeah, only Jones is really useless and he should be their 15th guy. The problem with their roster is that they needed one of Casspi, Young or McCaw to work out and went 0/3.
   5468. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:45 PM (#5680901)
What happened to McGee? With his athleticism and length, I thought he'd be usable, but I must admit not having watched him much this year.
   5469. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:45 PM (#5680902)
I think Webber is much better than Miller. I'd take Webber alone with Marv (who is wrong all the time, and has been wrong twice already tonight), or with someone else, but Reggie's a doof. Gotta play Klay with two fouls because ... there's no tomorrow. WTF????

Miller is awful.

Webber sucks and isn't willing to go against Miller, so Miller kind of drives the show unfortunately. Marv is terrible, as is the fake Marv Albert on ESPN.

Webber was good in the booth, but it's way easier to say and be smart when you have time to prepare soundbites with smart people talking into your ear than when you're speaking non-stop for 2.5 hours.
   5470. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:46 PM (#5680904)
This thread is the only thing keeping me from being in the fetal position right now. Don't feel nearly as good about this game as I did Game 6 when GS was down early.
   5471. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:46 PM (#5680905)
Luckily neither Gordon or Curry looked hurt on that play. Either or both could have twisted an ankle there.
   5472. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:47 PM (#5680906)
What happened to McGee? With his athleticism and length, I thought he'd be usable, but I must admit not having watched him much this year.
   5473. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:47 PM (#5680907)
That is the second biffed 2-on-1 fast break by Curry and Klay in two games.
   5474. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:48 PM (#5680908)
McGee would get absolutely destroyed in the PnR.
   5475. JJ1986 Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:48 PM (#5680909)
What Houston's doing is working, but I'd be trying to get Klay on Harden and go at him.
   5476. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:48 PM (#5680910)
This thread is the only thing keeping me from being in the fetal position right now. Don't feel nearly as good about this game as I did Game 6 when GS was down early.

Teams can and wilt on the road at Golden State when they make a run. Less likely at home.

Capela is getting way easier rim runs than I remember all series.
   5477. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:49 PM (#5680911)
No energy from GSW. Durant sleepwalking. Curry playing lax. Green and Thompson the only consistent energy right now.
   5478. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:50 PM (#5680914)
What Houston's doing is working, but I'd be trying to get Klay on Harden and go at him.

I had this thought...but (a) Klay is a great defender and (b) you don't want to let the hunt for the mismatch get you out of what you want to do offensively.
   5479. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:50 PM (#5680915)
Klay does so much for the offense with his motion off the ball.

Also expanding on McGee, you know all those times Looney gets switched on Harden and Paul and moves his feet and stays down? McGee would be jumping like a pogo stick on every pump fake.
   5480. Tin Angel Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:51 PM (#5680916)
As a Warriors fan, I'd much rather watch Thompson than Durant for the next few years.
   5481. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:52 PM (#5680918)
I get what you're saying sardonic, but you're emphasizing only the negatives on bench guys. McGee gives you much more length, more experience than Looney. I like Livingston, and don't think he's toast. He brings some good qualities. All I'm saying is that GSW never tried to force Houston to match them. They've been reactive, it seems to me.
   5482. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:52 PM (#5680919)
So far the game is slow, Houston is outshooting GS from 3 (40% on 15 shots) and winning the turnover battle (6 to 7). GS really needs to turn two of those trends around if they want to win.
   5483. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:53 PM (#5680920)
Golden State getting killed on the glass.
   5484. JJ1986 Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:53 PM (#5680921)
Durant is the worst.
   5485. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:54 PM (#5680922)
As a Spurs fan, I'd rather they trade for Durant than Klay.
   5486. JJ1986 Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:54 PM (#5680924)
Why do they keep calling Tucker the "smallest guy on the court?" when a. Curry is on the court and b. Gordon is on the court and a Rocket.
   5487. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:55 PM (#5680926)
Draymond is going to blow a gasket. I love it.

You know the Warriors will have their stretch or two where they hit 2 or 3 3s in a row.
   5488. jmurph Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:56 PM (#5680927)
Why do they keep calling Tucker the "smallest guy on the court?" when a. Curry is on the court and b. Gordon is on the court and a Rocket.

I just walked to get the laptop and come here to ask this very question. It's at least the second time Webber has said that this series.
   5489. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:56 PM (#5680928)
Listening to you guys makes me happy that I've been watching both series on mute since game 2. Well, not happy, per se, both series could use some iconic announcers since this is one of the pre-eminent conference finals of my adult life. But so it goes.
   5490. PJ Martinez Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:56 PM (#5680929)
As a Warriors fan, I'd much rather watch Thompson than Durant for the next few years.

As a non-Warriors fan (but an admirer of their style of play at its best), they're more fun to watch when Curry and Thompson are out there together than when it's one of those guys plus Durant. (And w/r/t 5845, sure, if the Celtics could have one of those two guys I'd take Durant.)
   5491. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:57 PM (#5680930)
PJ Tucker is really good. (Edit: he also fouled the #### out of Klay on that steal, though.)
   5492. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:58 PM (#5680932)
All of this is why there's an undercurrent amongst GS fans where they haven't totally accepted KD. In general we love Klay a lot more than KD.
   5493. aberg Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:59 PM (#5680933)
All these offensive rebounds reminds me of the 10 game 7. Makes me think about fatigue and strength of will, as well. Still think I'd take GS as the likely winner at this point.
   5494. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:59 PM (#5680934)
Can you imagine if Tucker and Nick Young were switched (I know Tucker got the full MLE and Nick Young the Taxpayers, and Tucker gets to start with Hou, but bear with me...)
   5495. PJ Martinez Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:59 PM (#5680935)
Dear James Harden: go for the bucket, rather than the foul. Thanks.
   5496. jmurph Posted: May 28, 2018 at 09:59 PM (#5680937)
It's impossible for me to ever feel sorry for Harden not getting a call (Bell clearly fouled him).
   5497. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:00 PM (#5680938)
How was that not a kicked ball??
   5498. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:00 PM (#5680940)
Can you imagine if Tucker and Nick Young were switched (I know Tucker got the full MLE and Nick Young the Taxpayers, and Tucker gets to start with Hou, but bear with me...)

I can imagine it. 7 centers.
   5499. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:02 PM (#5680941)
I can imagine it. 7 centers.


I chuckled.
   5500. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:02 PM (#5680942)
Harden's had a poor quarter. Houston will probably regret not building this lead up more. But hey, they're up.
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