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Saturday, February 17, 2018

OT - 2017-18 NBA thread (All-Star Weekend to End of Time edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  eliminationist rhetoric and precognition.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: February 17, 2018 at 02:09 AM | 6537 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   5501. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:03 PM (#5680944)
Flip
   5502. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:05 PM (#5680945)
Houston is unlucky to be up only 11.
   5503. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:05 PM (#5680946)
It's okay, it's not like you had a foul to give or anything.
   5504. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:06 PM (#5680948)
Now to see if Houston can withstand the 3rd Quarter haymaker from GSW.
   5505. PJ Martinez Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5680949)
Zach Lowe: "Warriors: 3/8 on free throws, 10 turnovers, 11 offensive rebounds allowed, Gordon goes to coast to coast w/ less than 5 seconds left in a quarter for the second straight game. Absolutely embarrassing half. Rockets just want this game more right now, are playing smarter."
   5506. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5680950)
Houston ended the half 6/23 from three after starting 6/15. GS dodged a huge bullet there and is lucky to not be buried right now.
   5507. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:09 PM (#5680951)
The tension of this game is making me crazier than I need to be, but if KD could stop getting punked by PJ Tucker on the glass, that would be nice.

GS is definitely still in this game, but the need to come out in the second half with a different attitude. Totally agree with Zach Lowe above.
   5508. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5680952)
3/5 misses from FT are Durant's; he's sucked on the defensive boards, blown defensive assignments, and is stifling the offense. Other than that, he's been great!
   5509. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5680953)
I grant that Houston is probably the best team the post-STEPH Warriors have faced, so it's not shocking they're being pushed. But man Golden State on the whole has not played great this series. In games 4, 5, and thus far this game they'd be at risk of losing to *any* playoff team imo.
   5510. strong silence Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:13 PM (#5680956)
Post-STEPH. What does this mean? Genuine question.

Does it mean since Stephen Curry joined GSW?
   5511. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:15 PM (#5680957)
I grant that Houston is probably the best team the post-STEPH Warriors have faced, so it's not shocking they're being pushed. But man Golden State on the whole has not played great this series. In games 4, 5, and thus far this game they'd be at risk of losing to *any* playoff team imo.


Agreed. FWIW going back to an earlier thread, JC, I mostly put the Warriors lack of depth more on the front office than the coaching staff, if that makes sense. The bench players all have stuff they bring to the table, but I would also agree with Spivey that this Houston team is the best team they've faced in the past four years of playoff runs. Houston is standing toe to toe with them, and it's not the kind of series where I think you want to reach into your back pocket and find Kevon Looney and Jordan Bell (two players who in general I love btw).
   5512. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:16 PM (#5680958)
Post-STEPH. What does this mean? Genuine question.

It means when he turned from an all-star to a top 3 player in the NBA.
   5513. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:16 PM (#5680959)
Not to speak for SPICEY, but I'm pretty sure he's referring to when Steph Curry reached his MVP form in 2014 to 2015, thereby becoming STEPH (with emphasis) vs. just Steph, a nice shooter with paper mache ankles.
   5514. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:20 PM (#5680961)
Okay, I've taken some deep breaths. It's just a basketball game, and whatever happens the Warriors are well set up for the future -- maybe their run will be more Spursian than back to back.

Also, they've got Steph, KD, Klay and Draymond and 24 minutes to live, and are down only 11.
   5515. PJ Martinez Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:23 PM (#5680965)
That was in the act of shooting.
   5516. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:23 PM (#5680966)
Harden has been getting an awful whistle. What the ####.
   5517. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:26 PM (#5680968)
How is it up to Curry to hustle for offensive rebounds so that KD can get an open 3?

Also from the GS side yeah, Harden was shooting.
   5518. strong silence Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:26 PM (#5680969)
I don't watch a lot of basketball these days. Is Harden more cavalier/schoolground/nonchalant than an MVP should be?

He puts up shots like like kids eat jelllybellies.
   5519. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:26 PM (#5680970)
Houston's gonna want to make some shots.
   5520. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:27 PM (#5680971)
GS pushing the pace a lot better this quarter, if they can keep doing that they'll be able to reel Houston in.
   5521. jmurph Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:27 PM (#5680972)
Two close series going out with something less than their best quality.
   5522. aberg Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:28 PM (#5680973)
You don't have to do any mental gymnastics to figure out that Houston should be up 8-10 more if those calls on harden were made correctly.
   5523. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:29 PM (#5680974)
I don't watch a lot of basketball these days. Is Harden more cavalier/schoolground/nonchalant than an MVP should be?


In short, yes. It's partially just his demeanor, and to be honest his motor just isn't that great. I don't mean it as a knock on him, but he's so elite at a bunch of stuff that it still nets out as an MVP caliber player.
   5524. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:31 PM (#5680975)
Gordon got hammered there.
   5525. strong silence Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:32 PM (#5680976)
Why would the refs or the NBA prefer GSW? Would TV ratings be better?
   5526. aberg Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:34 PM (#5680977)
Donaghy caliber.
   5527. smileyy Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:34 PM (#5680978)
There has to be some CLE/GSW fatigue, no? CLE/HOU would draw fresh eyeballs, I think.
   5528. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:34 PM (#5680979)
Harden is gonna need to have another good stretch for Houston to win.
   5529. JJ1986 Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:36 PM (#5680981)
Golden State is fouling like crazy on everything because the refs won't call it.
   5530. jmurph Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:36 PM (#5680982)
CLE/HOU would draw fresh eyeballs, I think.

I'm possibly in the minority on this but that would be the least appealing matchup to me in recent memory. Spurs-Pistons is the last one I can come up with.
   5531. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:36 PM (#5680983)
The officiating is embarrassingly bad. They're overcorrecting on the first half, so as players you have no idea what are fouls and what aren't. They've let GS back into this game.
   5532. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:37 PM (#5680984)
The refs are just letting both teams be very physical. I don't think Houston is getting robbed by any means. But Golden State has upped the physicality as they saw Houston was getting away with it.

The last 16 minutes I expect to be a drag out fight. This probably goes without saying, but Houston cannot keep missing 3s and win.
   5533. strong silence Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:37 PM (#5680985)
Is reffing really as hard as it seems to be?
   5534. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:37 PM (#5680986)
Harden on the receiving end of bullshit foul calls is so wonderful.
   5535. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:38 PM (#5680987)
God, Jordan Bell is going to give me an aneurysm. How did it come to this?

And there's probably not a lot of upside in me engaging in a discussion about refs, but I'll acknowledge that GS has played very physical so far (which in general they need -- the intensity in the first half wasn't getting it done) and hasn't been called for a lot of fouls.
   5536. aberg Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:39 PM (#5680988)
Houston is getting robbed because they failed to call very clear fouls on 3 harden 3s, one of which went in. That's just erasing 8+ points from the board. Way bigger impact than a normal missed call.

They have also botched 3 more no calls in GS's favor in the last 3 minutes (moving screen, Gordon and ariza drives).
   5537. strong silence Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:39 PM (#5680989)
Has Harden traditionally received more than his fair share of calls?
   5538. PJ Martinez Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:39 PM (#5680990)
Is reffing really as hard as it seems to be?

Harder, I would bet.
   5539. aberg Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:40 PM (#5680991)
Clearly not GS's fault for being physical. Refs just have to call the fouls.
   5540. PJ Martinez Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:41 PM (#5680992)
That little play with Jordan Bell setting the screen for Curry is clever (and the second time the screen looked like it was probably legal, even).
   5541. aberg Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:41 PM (#5680994)
Harden hunts for contact so he gets a ton of calls, including exploiting contact that is often considered incidental. He probably gets more close calls than most but mostly because he creates more situations where the refs have to make close calls. Don't think the proportion is off.
   5542. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:42 PM (#5680995)
Nick Young has played some ball.
   5543. zenbitz Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:42 PM (#5680996)
How is jumping into a defender a foul on that defender? This sport.
   5544. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:42 PM (#5680997)
Has Harden traditionally received more than his fair share of calls?

Drawing fouls is a skill. He's the best I've ever seen at it.
   5545. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:43 PM (#5680998)
That little play with Jordan Bell setting the screen for Curry is clever (and the second time the screen looked like it was probably legal, even).


Andrew Bogut practically invented the between the legs pass to Curry on that play, something Zaza picked up as well. Bell is part of a proud tradition of GS screen setting centers on that play.
   5546. JJ1986 Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:43 PM (#5680999)
You cannot have Anderson on Curry.
   5547. PJ Martinez Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:44 PM (#5681000)
Man, that was a brutal sequence for Houston.
   5548. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:44 PM (#5681002)
Houston is close to giving up. If Golden State hits another couple of shots they may just do it.
   5549. Howie Menckel Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:45 PM (#5681003)
no dog in the hunt here

this is UN WATCHABLE

can't believe I've only caught glimpses of a tight Stanley Cup Final Game 1 for this
   5550. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:45 PM (#5681004)
Good Lord.
   5551. aberg Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:45 PM (#5681005)
Houston picked a bad time to become the other cavaliers.
   5552. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:45 PM (#5681006)
Terry Rozier is happy to see people are gonna forget his name by the end of the night.
   5553. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:46 PM (#5681007)
Houston is close to giving up. If Golden State hits another couple of shots they may just do it.


I think this Houston team has heart despite their demeanor sometimes -- I thought that when they were down 10 going into the 4Q in Game 4.
   5554. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:46 PM (#5681009)
sardonic: This is what I meant. This has happened with Thomas out, Young in. They needed to use other guys.

Man, Houston is super cold.
   5555. aberg Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:47 PM (#5681010)
23 straight missed 3s. Twenty three!
   5556. aberg Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:47 PM (#5681011)
That's 0% on 23 attempts!
   5557. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:48 PM (#5681012)
sardonic: This is what I meant. This has happened with Thomas out, Young in. They needed to use other guys.


They've been forced into it for sure, and believe you me, I am glad that Swaggy P is stepping up. Based on his regular season performance I was not expecting this, but I will take it.
   5558. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:49 PM (#5681013)
It occurs to me that the Houston Rockets actually proudly own "jump shooting team" tag that Charles Barkley used to try to stick on the Warriors back in the day.
   5559. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:50 PM (#5681014)
They've been forced into it for sure, and believe you me, I am glad that Swaggy P is stepping up. Based on his regular season performance I was not expecting this, but I will take it.

The Swags seems like he had a extremely typical Swaggy P season. He shot in the low 40%, around 38% from 3, and was around his career norms in rebounds/assists/etc per 36. I mean, he's a gunner that can get you some points/spacing off the bench.
   5560. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:51 PM (#5681015)
It occurs to me that the Houston Rockets actually proudly own "jump shooting team" tag that Charles Barkley used to try to stick on the Warriors back in the day.

Wouldn't be shocked if they get more points in the paint and free throw line than Golden State, actually. But that didn't matter in the 3rd quarter, it was basically like Purge in the lane there.
   5561. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:52 PM (#5681016)
It occurs to me that the Houston Rockets actually proudly own "jump shooting team" tag that Charles Barkley used to try to stick on the Warriors back in the day.

This is why Chris Paul is such a huge loss for them. When they get cold, that's when you can put the ball in his hands.

   5562. tshipman Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:52 PM (#5681017)
Weirdly, the Refs toned down the physicality in the last two minutes of the quarter. I don't get why it was a wrestling match for like 6 min there.

Houston really getting boned by variance, but these guys are also exhausted.
   5563. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:54 PM (#5681019)
I'm thinking more of D'Antoni's push to get them to up 40-50 three pointers per game. I get why they do it but man does it look bad when they go cold.
   5564. aberg Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:54 PM (#5681020)
boned by variance


Terrible name for a sex tape
   5565. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:55 PM (#5681021)
Livingston forced Harden to his RIGHT. How'd they miss that?
   5566. JJ1986 Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:56 PM (#5681022)
Marv Albert has no idea who anyone is.
   5567. jmurph Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:56 PM (#5681023)
boned by variance

But a record named boned by an artist named variance is solid.
   5568. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:56 PM (#5681024)
Houston has taken some stupid 3s, but a whole bunch of these have been open. It's one of the worst shooting droughts I've ever seen at the NBA level (college doesn't count, because those kids don't know how to play basketball).
   5569. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:56 PM (#5681025)
5566 is so true. He's so done.
   5570. tshipman Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:56 PM (#5681026)
Marv Albert has no idea who anyone is.


Marv calling this game is like a PSA for dementia awareness.
   5571. jmurph Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:56 PM (#5681027)
Marv Albert has no idea who anyone is.

"Now they're calling it a two" a minute ago when all of Klay was a couple feet inside the arc.
   5572. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:57 PM (#5681028)
The Rockets are consistently generating GOOD looks from 3 and making none of them. Infuriating.
   5573. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:58 PM (#5681029)
I do like Marv Albert's "now they're calling it a 2." Actually they were always calling it a two, clown.
   5574. KronicFatigue Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:58 PM (#5681030)
I almost feel bad for Houston because of their three point woes but then I remember John Starks
   5575. PJ Martinez Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:58 PM (#5681031)
My guess with Marv is that his eyesight is going.
   5576. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:58 PM (#5681032)
We also got the "Curry draws the foul" on the "Curry charges". He's so done.

All game long, Miller has said, force Harden to his right. They do. He doesn't notice.
   5577. PJ Martinez Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:59 PM (#5681033)
"The Rockets are 6-for-39 from three. The Celtics were 7-for-39 last night."
   5578. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:59 PM (#5681034)
Yeah, I'll never forget that Starks game. This game is making that game look like he was Ray Allen.
   5579. tshipman Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:59 PM (#5681035)
Houston has taken some stupid 3s, but a whole bunch of these have been open. It's one of the worst shooting droughts I've ever seen at the NBA level (college doesn't count, because those kids don't know how to play basketball).


I'm kinda willing to consider that some guys on Houston could be suffering from fatigue. The every other day schedule has really hurt the shooting performance of all the teams.

Last 3 games, Ariza has played 39, 42, and 40 min after averaging 34 MPG in the regular season. That probably takes a toll.

That said, I think our initial explanation should be variance.
   5580. KronicFatigue Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:01 PM (#5681036)
5571 that call was so bad, he sounded like Vince McMahon back when he was an announcer. "1-2 he got him, no wait he didn't"
   5581. Davo Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:01 PM (#5681037)
5518. strong silence Posted: May 28, 2018 at 10:26 PM (#5680969)
I don't watch a lot of basketball these days. Is Harden more cavalier/schoolground/nonchalant than an MVP should be?

He puts up shots like like kids eat jelllybellies.

They do, but I think it's with the approval of the team. Think of it maybe like the TTO trend in baseball--the smart teams figured out pretty quick that swinging for the fences all the time was a good strategy because even though it resulted in a ton of strikeouts, it also resulted in a ton of homers.

The Rockets are like that when it comes to 3-pointers; they ran the numbers and discovered that their good shooters should basically just fire up 3s any time they are even remotely open. (Over half of their field goal attempts this year were from behind the 3-point line; they shattered the all-time records for attempts and makes in a season.)

So, you know, Harden is gonna shoot a lot of 3-pointers that look like bad shots. In your head, just try to like....pretend you're just watching Aaron Judge strike out 200 times. The bad stuff is gonna look really bad.
   5582. PJ Martinez Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:03 PM (#5681038)
Rockets starting to look demoralized.
   5583. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:03 PM (#5681039)
5571 that call was so bad, he sounded like Vince McMahon back when he was an announcer. "1-2 he got him, no wait he didn't"


Maybe he's fatigued too! I wouldn't rule out variance as an explanation either, Marv is clearly guessing out there.
   5584. PJ Martinez Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:04 PM (#5681040)
27 in a row. Wow.
   5585. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:04 PM (#5681041)
The Warriors are going to sweep the Cavs.

I think the fatigue factor is really big.
   5586. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:04 PM (#5681042)
That said, I think our initial explanation should be variance.

We know.

But, I do generally agree it's mostly variance. There's definitely some fatigue. The players out there are tired. They're also professional athletes. Golden State look gassed after games 4 and 5 and still playing a short bench has caught fire. Granted, they're better shooters, but the difference is substantial.
   5587. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:04 PM (#5681043)
1 for 28
   5588. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:04 PM (#5681044)
Eric Gordon has been great for Houston.
   5589. tshipman Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:04 PM (#5681045)
I wonder if the Warriors' 3s are getting in the Rockets' head. Harden took a really bad shot right after Curry and Durant nailed ridiculous ones.

Tucker finally ends the drought.

They do, but I think it's with the approval of the team. Think of it maybe like the TTO trend in baseball--the smart teams figured out pretty quick that swinging for the fences all the time was a good strategy because even though it resulted in a ton of strikeouts, it also resulted in a ton of homers.

The Rockets are like that when it comes to 3-pointers; they ran the numbers and discovered that their good shooters should basically just fire up 3s any time they are even remotely open. (Over half of their field goal attempts this year were from behind the 3-point line; they shattered the all-time records for attempts and makes in a season.)


I think the validity of this theory is still very much in question.
   5590. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:06 PM (#5681047)
I question that theory aesthetically.
   5591. sardonic Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:06 PM (#5681048)
I think Harden has one more flurry in him.
   5592. Howie Menckel Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:07 PM (#5681050)
wow, spectacular finish in the Vegas vs Washington hockey game

the trailing team actually took some shots close to the net!
   5593. JC in DC Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:10 PM (#5681051)
GSW is becoming too Durant dependent.
   5594. PJ Martinez Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:12 PM (#5681052)
Two teams without their star PGs lose a 3-2 lead including G7 at home under an avalanche of missed threes.

Could be a really rough few days for Ainge and his original protege who built teams brilliantly but got rotten luck.
   5595. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:12 PM (#5681053)
I ####### hate replay.
   5596. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:12 PM (#5681054)
They could delay a 3-point review til the next TO, couldn't they? As long as it was 't late in the game and close?

EDIT: I mean, I suggest that rule change.
   5597. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:13 PM (#5681055)
I think Harden has one more flurry in him.

He's been very passive for a while now.
   5598. spivey Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:13 PM (#5681056)
Harden is mentally soft. He can't handle adversity. Normally I think that would just be hot take garbage, and maybe it still is. But I'll always be a skeptic after how he closed out the Spurs series last year.

Also, dude needs to get in better shape. Someone needs to take his ass to some summer boot camp and make him get in like 40 miles a week.

There's still shockingly a good amount of time here, but I figure Durant or Curry will hit a couple of daggers (and Durant just did as I was typing this sentence).
   5599. tshipman Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:13 PM (#5681057)
Even with replay, not at all clear to me that Klay's shot should not have been a 3.
   5600. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 28, 2018 at 11:13 PM (#5681058)
Warriors going hack-a-Capella here is so annoying, and feels especially tacky coming from the Warriors up by double digits.
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