Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Saturday, February 17, 2018

OT - 2017-18 NBA thread (All-Star Weekend to End of Time edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  eliminationist rhetoric and precognition.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: February 17, 2018 at 02:09 AM | 6537 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 7 of 66 pages ‹ First  < 5 6 7 8 9 >  Last ›
   601. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 10, 2018 at 01:14 AM (#5636376)
flip
   602. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 10, 2018 at 01:52 AM (#5636378)
and thus begins my yearly dive into NBA draft PG prospects.


khyri thomas: i want to like him...he has good size, he's a good athlete and defender, shooting 54/42/80...but i don't.

his driving is very loopy. he lets defenders ride him towards the baseline and a lot of his finishes are fading away from the rim.
his decision making isn't very quick or advanced.
not much wiggle.

he's more like avery bradley than any decent PG.
   603. Paul D(uda) Posted: March 10, 2018 at 05:49 AM (#5636380)
This is a game you should win.

Yes, us pathetic Toronto fans, excited to beat the best team in the league who had a 17 game win streak coming into the game.
   604. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 10, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5636446)
jevon carter:
less athletic than i expected.
he has a burst when he sees something he likes.
he looks like a 40 year old when he's initiating offense.
he has a great feel for manipulating defenses using the pick and roll.
he can shred lazy pick and roll defense.
he has some interesting pull up/step back potential.
good vision to find spot up shooters when he drives the paint.
decent cutter.
his defense is comparable to tj mcconnell.
he's more of a pest than a blanket.


i don't see him as a sixer because he has some ball-stopping tendencies, but i wouldn't be surprised if he has a darren collison-esque career, where he's the 25th best PG in the NBA for close to a decade.
   605. tshipman Posted: March 10, 2018 at 01:13 PM (#5636454)
Yes, us pathetic Toronto fans, excited to beat the best team in the league who had a 17 game win streak coming into the game.


I didn't call you pathetic, I called you hilarious, and the absurd defensiveness is a good example of why.

The Raptors are a great team! They have a point differential that supports a 58-60 win team! They were playing at home! You should be confident that a 58-60 win team wins at home against literally any opponent.
   606. PJ Martinez Posted: March 10, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5636467)
I'm Team Paul D. That was a big win for Toronto. It makes sense that their team and their fans were pumped.
   607. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: March 10, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5636469)
I didn't call you pathetic, I called you hilarious, and the absurd defensiveness is a good example of why.

The Raptors are a great team! They have a point differential that supports a 58-60 win team! They were playing at home! You should be confident that a 58-60 win team wins at home against literally any opponent.


Really, the Raptors should be confident of beating a team that is better than the Raptors? This is still the Raptors right, not the Cavaliers? What is this argument about again, and why did you start it?
   608. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 10, 2018 at 03:57 PM (#5636471)
allonzo trier:
mixed bag, imo, but i like him a lot despite that
good size, decent athlete
good shooter off the catch
good touch around the rim
not a great distributor or passer
not a quick decision maker
has some wiggle
his off-ball movement is mediocre
not much of a threat on cuts
doesn't have a great pull up or step back jumper
didn't see much pick and roll success
not a threat above the rim

so, why do i like him?

i love his finishing off drives. he has enough wiggle to get a step ahead of defenders, and when he gets it, he glides to the rim in a flash. he's not as sudden as deaaron fox, but trier has the same kind of smoothness when he beats his defender off the dribble.


i don't know that he's a fit for the sixers because he lacks offensive awareness off the ball, but his shooting, his finishing off the dribble and his ability to draw fouls make him an intriguing option.
   609. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 10, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5636476)
the official 57i66135 order of preference, in order of preference:
shamet
trier
carter
thomas
   610. tshipman Posted: March 10, 2018 at 04:16 PM (#5636477)
Really, the Raptors should be confident of beating a team that is better than the Raptors? This is still the Raptors right, not the Cavaliers? What is this argument about again, and why did you start it?


Yes?
Home court is worth about 3 points.

Houston has a 8.58 SRS, Toronto has an 8.05 SRS. You would expect Toronto to be favored in that matchup.

I'm not arguing with anyone!
   611. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 10, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5636479)
keenan evans:
i like this guy.
blistering speed
sharp step back jumper
not afraid of contact in the paint
good shot
good range
bigger than he looks
not a ton of wiggle
not much playmaking ability
i don't love his decision making.


he's a microwave scorer and an 0-guard.

preference ladder: shamet, trier, evans, carter, thomas
   612. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 10, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5636483)
kerwin roach: just a guy.
rawle alkins: just a guy.

preference ladder: shamet, trier, evans, carter, thomas, roach, alkins.
   613. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 10, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5636485)
Houston has a 8.58 SRS, Toronto has an 8.05 SRS. You would expect Toronto to be favored in that matchup.
Yeah. I don't even know why Raptor fans bothered to watch the game, much less get excited about the game that went right down to the wire against the team riding one of the great winning streaks in NBA history. Pfft.
   614. TFTIO is Lounging from the flat one Posted: March 10, 2018 at 08:41 PM (#5636525)
I hate the Heat, and everything they stand for, and Pat Riley, and &c. &c. but oh man their Miami Vice jerseys are amazingly great.
   615. Scott Lange Posted: March 11, 2018 at 08:21 AM (#5636569)
Home court is worth about 3 points.

Houston has a 8.58 SRS, Toronto has an 8.05 SRS. You would expect Toronto to be favored in that matchup.


They weren't though.
   616. PJ Martinez Posted: March 11, 2018 at 09:29 AM (#5636575)
"For the first time in 21 seasons, the Spurs will have a losing record on the road, the longest streak of it's kind in NBA history. The last time it happened Tim Duncan was an All-American at Wake Forest."

The streak of 50-win seasons, which is at eighteen, I think, will also likely end this year.
   617. JC in DC Posted: March 11, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5636597)
[613] put differently, numbers are unemotional; fans are not.
   618. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 11, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5636599)
we've talked about lonzo ball's defensive capability a handful of times, but i think this video (it's only 30 seconds) fills in the gaps of how he's been one of the best defensive PGs in the league without much quickness.

he's a terror on double teams, he's a terror in passing lanes and he's willing to switch onto anyone.


i pulled the video link from this article. it's good stuff:
Lonzo’s defensive translation to the NBA can afford us valuable insight via the value of team defense at the next level and what qualities to search out. How a player defends in the team construct is one of the best indicators of intelligence on the court. You can tell a lot about how a prospect feels the game via their defense in a team setting, not just creating events but having sound positioning, reacting quickly and knowing where to be. It’s probably surprising that Lonzo has been this effective as a team defender this quickly, but when you pair his 6-foot-6 height with a 6-foot-9 wingspan, considerable closing speed, high effort and top-notch intellect, it wasn’t unforeseeable. Lonzo again still has considerable warts on that end of course via lateral quickness and most significantly navigating screens, but the fact he can still be an impact defensive player in the league with notable blemishes in key analysis areas affords some perspective on how a more subtle trait like team defense can compensate for other weaknesses.

Collectively, The Stepien has written feature pieces on players like Jaren Jackson, Mikal Bridges, Luka Doncic, Troy Brown and Zhaire Smith, all players who stand out as team defenders, so I wont go into detail there other than to say: 1) Lonzo’s size + instincts + effort intersection translating to defensive effectiveness bodes well for Doncic who gets similarly knocked for lateral quickness deficiencies (and Luka is bigger and stronger) and 2) Jaren Jackson is the best team defender for a big I’ve seen since covering the draft seriously.

   619. Booey Posted: March 11, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5636603)
The streak of 50-win seasons, which is at eighteen, I think, will also likely end this year.


And it would have been 20 straight seasons if not for the 1999 lockout (Spurs tied for the best record in the league at 37-13, pace for 61-21). Throw in their 15-2 postseason record and they were at 52-15 that year.
   620. Sean Forman Posted: March 11, 2018 at 12:26 PM (#5636606)
we've talked about lonzo ball's defensive capability a handful of times, but i think this video (it's only 30 seconds) fills in the gaps of how he's been one of the best defensive PGs in the league without much quickness.


Would be curious if this means he's at his defensive peak. Most of the projectability on the defensive side is due to learning how to play it. Does he have additional upside there?
   621. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 11, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5636610)

And it would have been 20 straight seasons if not for the 1999 lockout (Spurs tied for the best record in the league at 37-13, pace for 61-21).


Wait, why would you count 1998-99 at all in such streaks??? Surely the streak stands at 19 straight seasons.
   622. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 11, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5636624)
Would be curious if this means he's at his defensive peak. Most of the projectability on the defensive side is due to learning how to play it. Does he have additional upside there?

i think it's unlikely that ball is as good a defender as he'll ever be, but i wouldn't be shocked if most of his future improvement is invisible to most traditional statistics.

check that. i think he'll get over 2.5 steals per game at some point in the near future.
   623. maccoach57 Posted: March 11, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5636631)
Basic thoughts on Toronto:

Ujiri and Co. deserve a lot of credit for putting that team together, but I am still not sold on them doing any better in postseason. DeRozan's and Lowry's playoff PERs are 15.0 and 15.7, respectively. Even accounting for the tougher competitive environment, that is a huge dropoff, and if that doesn't change, I don't see them getting out of the East. As a fan, I would rather see them in the Finals than Cleveland or, obviously, Boston. But if I had to put money down right now on who comes out of the East, it would still be on LeBron James's team (not that anyone cares, but my favorite East team to root for is Washington).

As to the Houston game, yes, Toronto fans are obviously going to be stoked, given how good Houston is, Houston's winning streak, and Toronto's playoff history. Some parts of the fan experience have nothing to do with SRS and point differential.
   624. tshipman Posted: March 11, 2018 at 02:35 PM (#5636635)
Would be curious if this means he's at his defensive peak. Most of the projectability on the defensive side is due to learning how to play it. Does he have additional upside there?


I highly doubt that any 20 year old has peaked on defensive value.

Certainly this could be the peak of Lonzo's defensive ability (although I sort of doubt that because he's likely to get stronger in the next couple years), but I doubt that a smart player, new to the NBA, has peaked on defense in their first year.

Jason Kidd had his best defensive year (per DBPM) at age 32. The Glove peaked at age 27. Ron Harper was equally good at 25, 32 and 36.

I doubt Lonzo has NBA defense entirely figured out.
   625. tshipman Posted: March 11, 2018 at 03:09 PM (#5636640)
As to the Houston game, yes, Toronto fans are obviously going to be stoked, given how good Houston is, Houston's winning streak, and Toronto's playoff history. Some parts of the fan experience have nothing to do with SRS and point differential.


Just for the record, this is the post that I was responding to:
Toronto celebrating like they won the championship. The announcer called Valanciunas's final two free throws "the most important free throws of his life." It's early March guys.

Both things can be true.


Valunciunas has been to the conference finals.
   626. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 11, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5636649)
kevin knox should be a great NBA prospect, but i don't trust his basketball IQ.

he's 6'9 with length and athleticism, so how is he not a better rebounder? how is he not a more disruptive defender? how is his assist rate so low?

the only thing i can figure is he has well below average instincts and/or feel for the game. i tend to think guys like that are unlikely to reach their upside, but with his physical ability, any marginal increase in his awareness could pay huge dividends in production.


my head says let someone else take the risk on him; my heart says bet on the upside take him if he's there. my gut says...i'm in the mood for some crawfish.
   627. Tin Angel Posted: March 11, 2018 at 05:00 PM (#5636657)
Just for the record, this is the post that I was responding to


In retrospect, I think most of annoyance was having to see a cut to Drake every three seconds.
   628. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 11, 2018 at 06:14 PM (#5636676)
15. The sheer number of centers in this draft should tell us something about their likely value going forward. I’ve even left out Mitchell Robinson, who by some sources is estimated to be the best defensive player of all of them. I’ve left out Robert Williams, who puts up real deal defensive numbers while often playing out of position at power forward due to the presence of Tyler Davis. The fact is center is probably the deepest position in the NBA right now. They can’t all be a top 5 or a top 10 player at their position. And without injury, none of these players are particularly likely to overtake Joel Embiid or Anthony Davis (thank god he’s now playing center). Perhaps it’s possible for a player like Jaren Jackson, but also not entirely likely.

link


i actually think this is a weak year for college bigs. i see a lot of christian wood/kevon looney types, so outside of carter, jackson and ayton (and maybe williams), noone really jumps out at me as a good value pick.
   629. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: March 11, 2018 at 07:14 PM (#5636696)
Point/scoring guard is the deepest position in the NBA right now and it isn't close.
   630. Booey Posted: March 11, 2018 at 07:25 PM (#5636701)
Jazz with 6 in a row now (and 11 straight on the road). Obviously you can never count your wins before they happen, but their next 5 games are at home vs DET, PHX, SAC, and ATL, and then @ DAL. I like their chances for another 11 game winning streak.

I wish GSW could've helped them out by taking care of business against POR and MIN though.
   631. JJ1986 Posted: March 11, 2018 at 08:06 PM (#5636711)
Point/scoring guard is the deepest position in the NBA right now and it isn't close.
I think it's the deepest to 5 and 15 and 25, but center is the deepest to like the 40th or 50th best player.
   632. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 11, 2018 at 08:47 PM (#5636719)
I think it's a supply and demand thing. There are more cromulent lead guards than centers, but you play 1-2 lead guards at a time and 0-1 centers in today's game, so center is still deeper relatively speaking.
   633. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 11, 2018 at 10:44 PM (#5636737)
I think it's a supply and demand thing. There are more cromulent lead guards than centers, but you play 1-2 lead guards at a time and 0-1 centers in today's game, so center is still deeper relatively speaking.

there are 79 players 6'9 or taller that have a PER over 15 and play 10 minutes per game. (63 of them also have a DBPM > 0)
there are 40 players between 6'4 and 6'8 that have a PER over 15 and 10 minutes per game.
there are 25 players 6'3 or shorter that have a PER over 15 and play 10 minutes per game.


that's not rigorous analysis, but i think it's a strong indication that replacement level at forward is much higher than replacement level at other positions.

when you add in the fact that most teams exclusively play 1 forward lineups, the supply for forwards massively exceeds the demand.
   634. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 12, 2018 at 12:47 AM (#5636743)
LeBron's latest piece of wizardry. Amazing.
   635. tshipman Posted: March 12, 2018 at 01:26 AM (#5636744)
With the win over the Cavs, Lakers hit 30 wins for the first time since 2013.

They need to go 10-6 over the last 16 in order to hit 40 wins, which is what I'm targeting as a stretch goal.

They have the following home games left:

Nuggets
Heat
Mavericks
Bucks
Kings
Spurs
Timberwolves
Jazz
Rockets
Clippers (technically away, but at Staples).

In addition, they have a road game at the Grizzlies.

I think that 38 wins is probably the most likely outcome, but 40 or 41 is not absurd. Given that they were 11-27 at one point, that's a great sign for next season.
   636. . . . . . . Posted: March 12, 2018 at 07:33 AM (#5636750)
There are two factors to consider in valuing positions: the replacement level and the standard deviation around the mean. Sometimes you have a low replacement level but the players are tightly stacked and it can still be a hard position to generate value from.
   637. jmurph Posted: March 12, 2018 at 10:00 AM (#5636798)
Nice win for the Wolves yesterday- obviously it helped that Curry was out, but it was pretty close to a must win at this point in the year and they got it done. Huge game from Towns, I wish they fed him the ball like that more consistently.

Denver is the team at the bottom of the playoff chase that I don't get. I know Millsap missed a lot of time, but they still should be better than they've been.
   638. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 12, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5636811)
dispatches from sixers games:
@outsidethenba
barclays center: jahlil okafor is shooting free throws and markelle fultz is at the other end of the court yelling HELL NAH and SHORT
James Herbert
@outsidethenba
mozgov just missed a dunk at the buzzer in a game the nets lost by 23

James Herbert
@outsidethenba
unbelievable
pic.twitter.com/87E3Ha95s1
   639. jmurph Posted: March 12, 2018 at 11:09 AM (#5636823)
mozgov just missed a dunk at the buzzer in a game the nets lost by 23

The victory laps on the Kyrie trade have already been taken, mostly correctly, but it's at least worth acknowledging (and as a Celtics fan, fretting over) the possibility that Cleveland lands the top pick and oh also hey no big deal Kyrie has a chronic knee injury.
   640. jmurph Posted: March 12, 2018 at 01:52 PM (#5636975)
Well ####, Daniel Theis to miss the rest of the season after meniscus surgery. He's been a very useful bench guy.
   641. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 12, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5637041)

click this now


After establishing the skill set and tendencies of a player (“Scouting Report”), I then leverage data to quantify the effect of these tendencies (“Impact Evaluation”). All of this ultimately leads to a numerical valuation that allows me to compare the impact of different seasons. The high-level criteria for determining “best career of all-time:”

To simplify things, each player-season can be slotted into different tiers:

GOAT Season (30 percent or more chance of a title on a random team, or about +7 points per game on an average team)
All-Time Season (23-30 percent or +6)
MVP Season (17-23 percent or +5)
Weak MVP Season (12-17 percent or +4)
All-NBA Season (8-12 percent or +2.5)
All-Star Season (5-8 percent or +1)
Strong Role Player (3-5 percent or 0)
Role Player (1-3 percent or -2 to -0.5)

This allows for easy comparisons between multiple seasons; we can see if two MVP-level Bill Walton seasons are more valuable than, say, five All-NBA seasons from John Stockton.
   642. jmurph Posted: March 12, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5637069)
Well ####, Daniel Theis to miss the rest of the season after meniscus surgery. He's been a very useful bench guy.

EACH OF THE CELTICS ARE INJURED. Smart now out, too.
   643. tshipman Posted: March 12, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5637084)
RE: Backpicks:

I see Stiggles also listens to Dunc'd On.

I think it's really interesting. Some of the stuff I don't understand, like how he has Steph Curry's 2017 ranked over his 2016, but the overall framework is great.

***

Speculating baselessly about his top 8, seems like he must have in some order:

MJ
LeBron
Kareem
Shaq
Hakeem (which is surprising!, Hakeem often falls down these rankings)
Duncan
???
???
   644. jmurph Posted: March 12, 2018 at 05:06 PM (#5637087)
???
???

Russell hasn't been ranked yet, so he'll be in there...
   645. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 12, 2018 at 05:10 PM (#5637090)
The Celtics are 3.5 back of 1st and 7 up on 3rd in the EC, so I'd expect for them to get very careful with managing injuries for the remainder of the regular season.
   646. JC in DC Posted: March 12, 2018 at 05:15 PM (#5637092)
[643] Does a weird modern guy get on there, like Wade, or AI isn't listed, or is there something else?
   647. Booey Posted: March 12, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5637095)
In case anyone doesn't want to click on Stiggles link, this guys evaluations puts the top 40 all time players as such:

40 - Ray Allen
39 - Clyde Drexler
38 - Kevin McHale
37 - Elgin Baylor
36 - Artis Gilmore
35 - Paul Pierce
34 - Jason Kidd
33 - Walt Frazier
32 - Steph Curry
31 - John Havlicek
30 - Bob Pettit
29 - Reggie Miller
28 - Rick Barry
27 - Patrick Ewing
26 - Kevin Durant
25 - John Stockton
24 - Moses Malone
23 - Scottie Pippen
22 - Dwyane Wade
21 - Chris Paul
20 - Charles Barkley
19 - Steve Nash
18 - Dirk Nowitzki
17 - Jerry West
16 - Julius Erving
15 - David Robinson
14 - Kobe Bryant
13 - Karl Malone
12 - Oscar Robertson
11 - Larry Bird
10 - Magic Johnson
9 - Wilt Chamberlain

He hasn't done 1-8 yet, but looking at who hasn't been listed I assume it's got to be Jordan, Kareem, LeBron, Shaq, Russell, KG, Duncan, and Olajuwon in some order.

It's a career ranking so shorter career guys like Magic and Bird take a slight hit, and since it's a mostly statistical based formula it doesn't take narrative or "count da ringz!" into account like many lists do. There's a few surprises (Nash top 20? KG top 10?), and old timey guys like Baylor and Pettit are ranked a little lower than the usual general consensus, but overall I think it looks pretty good. The rankings for active guys like Paul, KD, and Steph are probably about right for what they've accomplished so far.
   648. Booey Posted: March 12, 2018 at 05:23 PM (#5637096)
643/644 - KG has got to be the remaining guy. I can't imagine any statistical formula - especially one that values longevity - could leave him out of the top 40.
   649. jmurph Posted: March 12, 2018 at 05:24 PM (#5637097)
Garnett, man I was racking my brain trying to get the 8th one from tship's list.
   650. JC in DC Posted: March 12, 2018 at 05:42 PM (#5637100)
Mike Wise is a senior writer and columnist at The Undefeated. Barack Obama once got to meet him.


Funny. I like Mike Wise.
   651. tshipman Posted: March 12, 2018 at 06:17 PM (#5637105)
643/644 - KG has got to be the remaining guy. I can't imagine any statistical formula - especially one that values longevity - could leave him out of the top 40.


Ahhhhh, that's the one I couldn't think of. I got Russell, just forgot to put him in there, and then couldn't come up with 8.
   652. Booey Posted: March 12, 2018 at 06:22 PM (#5637107)
Ahhhhh, that's the one I couldn't think of. I got Russell, just forgot to put him in there, and then couldn't come up with 8.

Lakers fan leaving out the 2 Celtics. I see how it is. ;-)
   653. tshipman Posted: March 12, 2018 at 06:28 PM (#5637109)
Lakers fan leaving out the 2 Celtics. I see how it is. ;-)


KG is a Timberwolf.
Grrrr
   654. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 12, 2018 at 06:33 PM (#5637110)
KG is a Timberwolf.
Grrrr
what's kevin mchale?

   655. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 12, 2018 at 06:37 PM (#5637112)
KG is a Timberwolf.

While I do agree with you, he did play twice as many playoff games with the Celtics than he did with Minnesota, despite the fact that he missed an entire playoff series because of injury.

Minnesota really did a terrible job building teams around him.
   656. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 12, 2018 at 07:21 PM (#5637118)
While I do agree with you, he did play twice as many playoff games with the Celtics than he did with Minnesota, despite the fact that he missed an entire playoff series because of injury.

Minnesota really did a terrible job building teams around him.
the joe smith thing screwed them pretty badly. and it didn't help that western conference was stacked through KG's prime.
   657. tshipman Posted: March 12, 2018 at 07:30 PM (#5637121)
what's kevin mchale?


That's an easy one.

Kevin McHale is an #######.
   658. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 13, 2018 at 12:26 AM (#5637171)
While I do agree with you, he did play twice as many playoff games with the Celtics than he did with Minnesota, despite the fact that he missed an entire playoff series because of injury.
He spent 14 of his 22 seasons and two-thirds of his games in the league with the Wolves. His ring was in Boston, but I guess because I'm a Western Conference guy and saw him for all those years before then, I'll always think of him as the young skinny guy who was tearing the rim off in Minnesota blue.
   659. tshipman Posted: March 13, 2018 at 12:31 AM (#5637173)
Due to tiebreaks, the Spurs are now in 10th place in the West. Per 538, they are only at 51% to make the playoffs.
   660. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:17 AM (#5637199)
If Leonard doesn't come back I don't see the Spurs making the playoffs. Starting to reach the point in the season where that won't even guarantee they make it, unless he plays well and reasonably large minutes out of the gate.

We could miss the playoffs with like 46 wins, get the #1 pick and reload, though.
   661. jmurph Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:36 AM (#5637210)
Back to KG, I'm a Celtics fan but definitely think of Garnett as a Timberwolf first. But this merits a lengthy ban:
Kevin McHale is an #######.

Kevin McHale is a national treasure.
   662. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:46 AM (#5637218)
Kevin McHale is a national treasure.


He is just like a terrible movie? OK.

Wolves fan still bitter about McHale, though the real blame is with ownership.
   663. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: March 13, 2018 at 09:48 AM (#5637221)
Garnett is a clear Timberwolf for me. Boston got like 1 of his 10 best years. So it's not just the # of games played, but his best seasons were there. He was a great offensive player in his prime, and for all but his first Boston year he was pretty mediocre offensively post-Minnesota.
   664. Booey Posted: March 13, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5637261)
It was a joke. Yes, Garnett is obviously a Woof.
   665. jmurph Posted: March 13, 2018 at 12:20 PM (#5637321)
It was a joke. Yes, Garnett is obviously a Woof.

Hey you never know. I personally think of Karl Malone as a Laker first *runs out of room before Booey catches me.*
   666. Booey Posted: March 13, 2018 at 12:40 PM (#5637330)
And Jordan a Wizard, Olajuwon a Raptor, Pippen a Rocket, and Ewing a Sonic or a Magic...ian!
   667. jmurph Posted: March 13, 2018 at 12:43 PM (#5637333)
I'm the furthest from a Knicks fan but Ewing's stints elsewhere might bother me the most, of that group. Maybe Olajuwon, too.

Pippen is obviously a Blazer first, though.
   668. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 13, 2018 at 01:14 PM (#5637353)
Call me a traditionalist, but I will forever consider Kobe Bryant a Hornet.
   669. Booey Posted: March 13, 2018 at 01:42 PM (#5637373)
Paul Pierce is a Net/Wizard/Clipper!

(for the Celtics fans) ;-)
   670. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: March 13, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5637375)
Does Iverson go into the HOF as a Grizzly or a Besiktas Cola Turka?
   671. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 13, 2018 at 02:22 PM (#5637410)
Call me a traditionalist, but I will forever consider Kobe Bryant a Hornet.
I have a friend in North Carolina who's still mad about that.
   672. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: March 13, 2018 at 02:48 PM (#5637421)
And Jordan a Wizard, Olajuwon a Raptor, Pippen a Rocket, and Ewing a Sonic or a Magic...ian!

Not to disagree with the larger point about KG's legacy with Minnesota, but his Celtics stint was rather a bigger part of his career than any of these.

And in '09 he didn't miss one playoff series, he missed 4. The Celtics were the best team in the league by some margin when he pulled up with that knee injury. (I realize I'm opening myself up to a certain amount of ridicule here, but I'm still a little salty about it: I was a more impressionable age at the time, and it made quite an impression.)
   673. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 13, 2018 at 03:54 PM (#5637452)
And in '09 he didn't miss one playoff series, he missed 4. The Celtics were the best team in the league by some margin when he pulled up with that knee injury.
This reminds me of Bill Simmons and how the Celtics would have won every championship ever except for injuries and bad luck.
   674. aberg Posted: March 13, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5637453)
If anyone else likes stuff like this, someone remastered 11 minutes of Bill Russell highlights from the 1963 finals in HD: Link

Garnett is a clear Timberwolf for me. Boston got like 1 of his 10 best years. So it's not just the # of games played, but his best seasons were there. He was a great offensive player in his prime, and for all but his first Boston year he was pretty mediocre offensively post-Minnesota.


The first thing Garnett said when he won a title in Boston was, "this one's for 'Sota." Seems relevant.
   675. jmurph Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:22 PM (#5637464)
The first thing Garnett said when he won a title in Boston was, "this one's for 'Sota." Seems relevant.

It wasn't "anything is possiblllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllle?"
   676. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:42 PM (#5637474)
It was definitely that or "Go to bed, Boo Boo"
   677. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 13, 2018 at 04:54 PM (#5637481)
when this happens next year, we'll be able to call it a processing glitch.
   678. aberg Posted: March 13, 2018 at 05:10 PM (#5637492)
The first thing Garnett said when he won a title in Boston was, "this one's for 'Sota." Seems relevant.

It wasn't "anything is possiblllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllle?"


I had to go back and re-watch. We were both wrong. The very first thing was "I'm so hype right now." Then "anything is possibllllllllle." Then "this is for everybody in 'Sota." Then lots of shout outs I couldn't understand. But it definitely ended with a James Cagney quote.
   679. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: March 13, 2018 at 07:45 PM (#5637551)
This reminds me of Bill Simmons and how the Celtics would have won every championship ever except for injuries and bad luck.

Like I said, I'm opening myself up to ridicule. But as of 2/19/09, when KG pulled up lame, the Celtics were 44-11 with a +9.3 point differential, had reeled off a 19-game win streak earlier in the season, and were 3-1 against the eventual ECF teams, with only one of those victories by single digits. I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb by suggesting they would have made the Finals. YMMV.
   680. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 13, 2018 at 08:17 PM (#5637556)
@JCameratoNBCS
Markelle Fultz free throws after shootaround:
pic.twitter.com/PCjTL8s72y
   681. PJ Martinez Posted: March 13, 2018 at 10:04 PM (#5637583)
680: His form still looks pretty awkward, no?
   682. JC in DC Posted: March 13, 2018 at 10:15 PM (#5637589)
It does. Still a hitch up top and kinda bizarre how he brings it into his belly. But, they went in, and you can see he's trying to keep everything tight. Nothing fluid about it right now, but 3-3!
   683. JC in DC Posted: March 13, 2018 at 10:16 PM (#5637590)
Other issue: does Stan van Gundy lose both jobs, or just one this offseason?
   684. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 13, 2018 at 11:00 PM (#5637628)
680: His form still looks pretty awkward, no?

he looks like someone who knows what a basketball is. that's a massive improvement.
   685. tshipman Posted: March 13, 2018 at 11:08 PM (#5637634)
Other issue: does Stan van Gundy lose both jobs, or just one this offseason?


I think that's up to Stan. He's getting 7 million regardless. Does he really even want to coach the Pistons?

***

The Suns are kind of not even trying at this point.
   686. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 13, 2018 at 11:21 PM (#5637647)
If Stan Van gets double fired I hope he ends up on tv, ideally swapped in for his brother (who could use a sabbatical). He seems like he'd be a great color guy.
   687. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 13, 2018 at 11:35 PM (#5637661)
Jazz at home were pretty big favorites anyway, but Pistons' effort and focus were both horrible tonight. I would probably give him another year as coach only, though.
   688. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 13, 2018 at 11:39 PM (#5637662)
If Stan Van gets double fired I hope he ends up on tv, ideally swapped in for his brother (who could use a sabbatical). He seems like he'd be a great color guy.
i can't imagine SVG would be willing to comply with ESPN's politics gag order, so that seems like something destined to blow up. i think he'd be a great get for youtube or twitch or one of those internet video things. buy him a suit, put him in a sauna and let him rant about whatever until he passes out. it could even be a game show. you could call it "(heat)stroke of genius".
Other issue: does Stan van Gundy lose both jobs, or just one this offseason?
i'd give him another year, but i also think the blake griffin trade was outstanding for DET.

his drafting is pretty godawful, though. it's not easy to find good starters outside of the top 10, but you have to do better than kennard/ellenson/johnson.
   689. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 14, 2018 at 12:00 AM (#5637669)
I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb by suggesting they would have made the Finals. YMMV.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but the "my team would have won if not for injuries" game is not my favorite game, because anyone can play it for any team that gets remotely close to anything meaningful, which makes the game's results meaningless.
   690. tshipman Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:04 AM (#5637679)
I really wonder what happens with Julius Randle this offseason.

Randle doesn't shoot the 3 or defend the rim. However, after the ASB, he's averaged 21/10/4 with excellent finishing (but providing very little else on offense). He can switch pretty well, but doesn't provide any shotblocking or steals (and he fouls too much).

There's a glut of big men, and very little cap room out there.
   691. PJ Martinez Posted: March 14, 2018 at 07:43 AM (#5637689)
"Since Lavar Ball made the comments about the Lakers not wanting to play for Luke Walton, they've responded by going 20-9,* ref for the 7th-best record in the NBA. They rank inside the top 10 in both offensive and defensive efficiency over that span."

* I doubt Ball's comments have anything to do with this, but they've been surprisingly good for nearly half the season now. (I assume "ref" is a typo, but I'm not sure for what.)
   692. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: March 14, 2018 at 09:06 AM (#5637700)
The end of the Dumars era in Detroit stunk, but it just sort of felt like he lost his mind. It ended with the Josh Smith fiasco.

Somehow the SVG era is going to end on an even more depressing note. I had hopes for it until even a few months ago, so in a way it's more of a let down.
   693. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:04 AM (#5637725)
Detroit really has been less than the sum of its parts, probably due to lack of consistency: Reggie Jackson has missed a lot of time, and they reshuffled the roster by trading for Griffin.

It's not hopeless though: Stanley Johnson, Reggie Bullock, and Luke Kennard aren't all-stars, but they are okay rotation players. I would bring most of the team back, and cross my fingers for better health and roster gelling. Losing that first-round pick to the Clippers hurts, but maybe they'll get lucky and land in the Top 4.
   694. The Good Face Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5637738)
I really wonder what happens with Julius Randle this offseason.

Randle doesn't shoot the 3 or defend the rim. However, after the ASB, he's averaged 21/10/4 with excellent finishing (but providing very little else on offense). He can switch pretty well, but doesn't provide any shotblocking or steals (and he fouls too much).

There's a glut of big men, and very little cap room out there.


Randle's just tough to figure out... how much is a big that can't space the floor or protect the rim really worth? A lot of Lakers fans seem to be leaning towards wanting to pay Randle, sign Paul George, and hope their young core of Ball/Ingram/Kuzma/Hart keep developing. It's not a terrible plan... that's a young, tall, versatile, physical team that can play switchy defense and positionless offense, although they'd be lacking rim protection and really counting on Ball/Ingram/Kuzma/Hart for 3p shooting, which may or may not work out.

   695. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:09 PM (#5637866)
Randle's just tough to figure out... how much is a big that can't space the floor or protect the rim really worth? A lot of Lakers fans seem to be leaning towards wanting to pay Randle, sign Paul George, and hope their young core of Ball/Ingram/Kuzma/Hart keep developing. It's not a terrible plan... that's a young, tall, versatile, physical team that can play switchy defense and positionless offense, although they'd be lacking rim protection and really counting on Ball/Ingram/Kuzma/Hart for 3p shooting, which may or may not work out.

depending on the sequencing, LAL should have room for a clint capela offer sheet, plus george and randle.

nerlens noel is a great buy-low candidate.

i think someone like valanciunas, vucevic or shiteside is gonna get traded this offseason.

robin lopez, dwayne dedmon, marcin gortat, marc gasol, dwight howard and a lacrosse team of plumlii are always available.

you could swap deng for noah or chandler or kanter.

favors, monroe, brook lopez are free agents.


LAL's best options, imo (taking into account price, cost, fit, upside, etc and assuming you sign paul george), would be:
1: favors
2: capela
3: noel
4: vucevic
5: marc gasol
   696. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:20 PM (#5637874)
K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop 13m13 minutes ago

In (not so) huge news, Markkanen, who arrived with a buzzcut, promised more wild hair days. Here's exchange with @vgoodwill:

You look like 1982-ish Larry Bird?
“Just wait until after the summer."

Gonna have an afro?
“You'll see. You'll see."


Bulls tank is still on track.
   697. aberg Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5637884)
a lacrosse team of plumlii


Last night was the anniversary of AC Green playing his 1000th consecutive game (without any restorative sex). That got the TV announcers talking about NBA iron men, and they pointed out that Mason Plumlee is the active leader in consecutive games played with somewhere around 300. That raised several questions for me:

1. Which one is he?
2. Is he good?
3. What team is he on?
4. How did he go ~4 seasons without a DNP?
5. Huh?
   698. Manny Coon Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:37 PM (#5637894)
Mason is easily the best Plumlee, he is an above average player by pretty much all metrics. He can score fairly efficiently, pass and rebound. He's on the Nuggets.

Would the Lakers be willing to throw a max contract a DeAndre Jordan? Would the Clippers be willing to pay him just as much if they did?
   699. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5637897)
It's not hopeless though: Stanley Johnson, Reggie Bullock, and Luke Kennard aren't all-stars, but they are okay rotation players. I would bring most of the team back, and cross my fingers for better health and roster gelling. Losing that first-round pick to the Clippers hurts, but maybe they'll get lucky and land in the Top 4.

I think their problem is that they've got a lot of ok guys, and a decent amount of money tied up on a bunch of average to good players. I guess the Harris contract moved with them getting Griffin. I think they show both how difficult it is to be good without a star, and how difficult it is to get a star.
   700. aberg Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5637907)
A few notes from the Wolves game last night:

-They won @WAS, which marks the 18th! consecutive game between the two teams that has alternate winners. Both teams had stretches where they lead by high single digits, but nobody ever really pulled away and the Wolves closed out hotter to get a big 116-111 win.

-Towns was getting meaningful touches (not just dribble handoffs) early in possessions and he made the most of it. He still only attempted 17 FGs, but finished with 37 points, including a corner three in the last minute that was functionally the game winner.

-Bjelica is making a strong argument for more playing time even when Butler returns. In 7 games since Butler got hurt, he's averaging 14-8-3 plus 2 S+B on .487/.441/.800 (2.1 made 3PA). He isn't fast, but he anticipates well enough to play surprisingly good defense.

-Wiggins has also looked much better on defense lately. He still spaces out sometimes, but he has been consistently engaged at crucial moments and making some extremely athletic plays.

-Wolves are now 2-3 in a hellish 7 game stretch against all playoff teams. All 5 games decided by single digits. Butler has been out for all of them. Next two are @SA,vHOU on a nasty b2b. I said going in that I hoped they could get 2 out of the 7 and I'd be elated with 3. That SA game might be within reach, so I'll hold out hope for elation. I probably should've lumped the following game (vLAC) in to make it 8 tough ones in a row. After that, it cools considerably. The final ten includes 4 possible/likely playoff teams, 4 tankers, and 2 garden-variety bad teams.
Page 7 of 66 pages ‹ First  < 5 6 7 8 9 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Stormy JE
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOTP 2018 September 17: How Brett Kavanaugh explains his baseball ticket debt
(1553 - 12:13am, Sep 21)
Last: zenbitz

NewsblogWho needs Justice when you have OMNICHATTER! for Sept. 20, 2018
(157 - 12:07am, Sep 21)
Last: villageidiom

NewsblogIs Red Sox' slump temporary, or did they come back to earth?
(11 - 11:49pm, Sep 20)
Last: Bote Man the walk-off king

NewsblogOT - 2018 NBA Thread (Pre-Season Edition)
(445 - 11:49pm, Sep 20)
Last: tshipman

NewsblogWillians Astudillo Should Be Your New Favorite Player
(19 - 11:41pm, Sep 20)
Last: QLE

NewsblogDodgers bash their way to MLB history with record-tying seven 20-homer hitters
(26 - 11:20pm, Sep 20)
Last: Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant

NewsblogSnell wins 20th, ties Rays record in 4-0 victory over Texas
(45 - 11:10pm, Sep 20)
Last: Buck Coats

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (September 2018)
(371 - 10:55pm, Sep 20)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogIt's not a tantrum, it's a cry for OMNICHATTER! for Sept. 19, 2018
(91 - 10:35pm, Sep 20)
Last: ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick

NewsblogThe Orioles became the first professional sports team to wear Braille jerseys
(52 - 9:50pm, Sep 20)
Last: What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face?

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (2018-19 season begins!)
(817 - 9:32pm, Sep 20)
Last: Richard

NewsblogOrioles match club record with 107th loss, 5-0 to Blue Jays before tiny home crowd
(59 - 5:50pm, Sep 20)
Last: escabeche

Sox Therapy11 Days Later
(76 - 5:15pm, Sep 20)
Last: Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature

Sox Therapy6,036 Days
(15 - 2:49pm, Sep 20)
Last: Nasty Nate

Gonfalon CubsThe Final Push
(134 - 1:55pm, Sep 20)
Last: What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face?

Page rendered in 0.6629 seconds
46 querie(s) executed