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Saturday, February 17, 2018

OT - 2017-18 NBA thread (All-Star Weekend to End of Time edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  eliminationist rhetoric and precognition.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: February 17, 2018 at 02:09 AM | 6537 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   6501. Just TFTIO Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5685560)
Flip.
   6502. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5685562)
My read of this again is that no one knew wtf Smith was doing until it was too late.


I'm in this camp.

How the hell is JR still on this team? I know he's got his uses, but it amazes me they've not upgraded that position.


For all his quirkiness, JR adds actual, tangible value. That puts him in a league with like 3-4 other Cavs.

I do feel bad for JR. He has always seemed like a genuinely good guy -- will always have a soft spot for him after what he went through with his daughter.
   6503. JC in DC Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:04 PM (#5685564)
Look, I'm sure Brad Stevens would've called a timeout, because he never makes mistakes, but IF you think that about Lue then you're suggesting that EITHER LBJ did not know how many TOs his team had OR that he failed to call a TO as well, which would've been easier for him as he's on the court and in front of the refs. The reason everyone thinks JR ###### up is because NO ONE thought a player wouldn't know the situation, they all assumed, until the very last second, that he was running a play. Catching GSW scrambling is the play there, not calling a TO and letting them get set.
   6504. Just TFTIO Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:05 PM (#5685566)
I do feel bad for JR. He has always seemed like a genuinely good guy -- will always have a soft spot for him after what he went through with his daughter.

This is where I'm at. My older daughter had to have open heart surgery at six months, so I'm a sucker for sick kid stories that end well.
   6505. jmurph Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:07 PM (#5685567)
Look, I'm sure Brad Stevens would've called a timeout, because he never makes mistakes, but IF you think that about Lue then you're suggesting that EITHER LBJ did not know how many TOs his team had OR that he failed to call a TO as well, which would've been easier for him as he's on the court and in front of the refs. The reason everyone thinks JR ###### up is because NO ONE thought a player wouldn't know the situation, they all assumed, until the very last second, that he was running a play. Catching GSW scrambling is the play there, not calling a TO and letting them get set.

Troll someone else about Stevens, I've never been that guy here.

NJ pointed out on the last page (and we all saw it in real time) that LeBron tried to call timeout. Visibly. With under two seconds, if I recall correctly. The refs didn't grant it.
   6506. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:07 PM (#5685568)
IF you think that about Lue then you're suggesting that EITHER LBJ did not know how many TOs his team had OR that he failed to call a TO as well

Again, LeBron DID call timeout on the court and we are trying to decipher LeBron's mindset. So, in his head, he called timeout on the court and didn't get it, so I think it's safe to assume he thinks "oh, we must not have had any and the refs just ignored me because of that"...and then he finds out (a) they did and (b) his coach didn't call one.
   6507. spivey Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:07 PM (#5685571)
I'm pretty ok with nobody calling the timeout. For much of JR's antics there it seemed like he was in a position to have a good shot. You just can't predict what happened, even for a space cadet like JR that wasn't normal. I think you're much more likely to get a decent shot in the flow of the game there. What's funny is if I recall correctly as he's dribbling out it's not until the very end that Klay comes and guards him. He could have gotten a pretty uncontested jumper right at the end of the clock there.
   6508. Just TFTIO Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:08 PM (#5685574)
What's funny is if I recall correctly as he's dribbling out it's not until the very end that Klay comes and guards him

Yeah, it looked a lot like nobody knew what the #### was going on.
   6509. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5685576)
What's funny is if I recall correctly as he's dribbling out it's not until the very end that Klay comes and guards him

Klay and KD immediately sprinted at LeBron and then Klay realized that J.R. has no one on him so he ran towards him.
   6510. JC in DC Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5685590)
Yeah, maybe.
   6511. JC in DC Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5685599)
That could've been the best deke ever if someone on GSW had been uncertain about the score and intentionally fouled JR. That would've been cool.
   6512. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5685601)
Yeah, it looked a lot like nobody knew what the #### was going on.
link
​Don't worry, J.R. Smith, you weren't the only one to think you ​were up at the end of Game 1. As it turns out, ESPN radio broadcaster Mark Kestecher also thought Cleveland was ahead108-107 in the closing seconds on Thursday night, and went on to celebrate Cleveland's win after time expired.

   6513. villageidiom Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:35 PM (#5685603)
Here's the problem: If the Cavs kick every player off the court for playing shitty basketball, they'll be left with LeBron playing 1 on 5.
Or 0 on 5, on occasion when GSW has the ball.
   6514. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5685612)
Again, LeBron DID call timeout on the court and we are trying to decipher LeBron's mindset. So, in his head, he called timeout on the court and didn't get it, so I think it's safe to assume he thinks "oh, we must not have had any and the refs just ignored me because of that"...and then he finds out (a) they did and (b) his coach didn't call one.


Setting aside the absurdity of the refs ignoring what should be a violation, Lebron and Lue don't come off covered in glory here either. On a miss everybody should have been on the same page, and clearly, nobody was on the same page.

On a miss, unless you have a wide open layup or look you CALL TIMEOUT. How does that not get communicated? And are we really to believe Lebron didn't know they had a TO, even though he was calling one, when "informed" by Lue in that video? Come on. Dude was acting. Lebron has made an argument he's the GOAT but that's just awful leadership and sulking at a time he needed to be focused on OT. Sulk after the game. You're the GOAT you gotta be better.

___________________

As for last night's game, as others said when the Warriors have it going like that, with Steph and Durant both having hot hands they are almost impossible to beat, and certainly a mediocre other than Lebron Cavs team isn't up to the task. I think Cleveland will win a dead cat bounce game 4, but I see Warriors in 5. I guess 6 if Lebron can pull another 50+ game out. I think he's gassed though and I don't think he has it in him. Maybe if he was 27 or 29.
   6515. jmurph Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5685616)
And are we really to believe Lebron didn't know they had a TO, even though he was calling one, when "informed" by Lue in that video? Come on. Dude was acting.

Good. Lord.
   6516. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:51 PM (#5685621)
Good. Lord.


Lebron knew they had a TO dude. It's why he tried to call one. Did he just "forget" a few minutes later when informed by Lue? Come on. I'm a little confused as the ball washing here for him. There's three things that can be true and none of them are a good look for him. The best look is that he didn't know, in a critical situation, that they had a TO? OK, but I find that hard to believe, because it's Lebron. Of course he knew if they had a TO, right? It's...like..his life work.
   6517. jmurph Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:59 PM (#5685629)
The best look is that he didn't know, in a critical situation, that they had a TO? OK, but I find that hard to believe, because it's Lebron. Of course he knew if they had a TO, right? It's...like..his life work.

He called timeout on the court. What are we even discussing, honestly? He calls timeout. It's not granted. Gets to the bench, is processing everything, confirms with Lue that they had a timeout, and is upset by this. As someone already speculated, he was probably wondering why it wasn't granted on the court, so he was double-checking with Lue.
   6518. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:10 PM (#5685638)
Gets to the bench, is processing everything, confirms with Lue that they had a timeout, and is upset by this. As someone already speculated, he was probably wondering why it wasn't granted on the court, so he was double-checking with Lue.


This is plausible but I still contend that regardless of his state of mind -- reacting to this "news" he has to be better. Process it after the game but in that moment you've gotta just move on. Look at his team mates trying to pump him up, that can't be how it goes down in that moment.
   6519. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5685641)
reacting to this "news" he has to be better. Process it after the game but in that moment you've gotta just move on. Look at his team mates trying to pump him up, that can't be how it goes down in that moment.

Multiple people already said this.
   6520. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:17 PM (#5685648)
I would like it if LeBron were doing more on defense. Frankly, I don't think he has a lot of choice - he's playing very heavy minutes and is being heavily leveraged on offense.
Blaming the best player on a team for that team's failures is an old and foolish tradition. He has been fantastic and is my choice for series MVP at this point.
   6521. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:20 PM (#5685652)
I said when it happened: when the 4th quarter buzzer sounded after Game 1, I also thought Cleveland had won. I was applauding Smith for his heady play!
   6522. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:25 PM (#5685661)
Multiple people already said this.


Eh, I read the thread, you and JC said it, jmurph pushed back. So I guess that's 2/3 of the reaction, I guess my reaction makes it 3/4 in the "be better" camp.

Blaming the best player on a team for that team's failures is an old and foolish tradition. He has been fantastic and is my choice for series MVP at this point.


I give him the benefit of the doubt. He's 33, it's a miracle he's as healthy and robust and productive and energetic as he is. If he could be doing more he would. He's just leveraged beyond belief on this shitty Cavs team. FFS, it was only a few weeks ago this Cavs team looked ripe for a first round exit.
   6523. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5685662)
I would like it if LeBron were doing more on defense. Frankly, I don't think he has a lot of choice - he's playing very heavy minutes and is being heavily leveraged on offense.
Blaming the best player on a team for that team's failures is an old and foolish tradition. He has been fantastic and is my choice for series MVP at this point.


Right. And no one else is held to that standard. GOAT, I get it, but it's easy to find myself nitpicking him more than anyone else. I'm trying to just enjoy his performance this series for what it is, because I truly believe there's no chance of them winning it and no matter what choice he makes this offseason, next year will just be different.
   6524. Booey Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:32 PM (#5685666)
I said when it happened: when the 4th quarter buzzer sounded after Game 1, I also thought Cleveland had won.


I actually did too.

That said, I think it's fair to hold the players and coaches to a higher standard. After all, it's literally their job to pay attention to details like that. I'm just some guy watching on the couch between other projects.
   6525. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:33 PM (#5685667)
He had a near certain upset victory ripped away from him by an incompetent coach and teammate

What are the odds of scoring on a sideline-out-of-bounds play with 3 seconds left? Gotta be less than 50%, right? "Near certain upset victory" seems like a pretty big overreach.

Are we tabling a mock draft until the Finals are over? After drafting Jordan Bell first among the many teams that drafted him last year, I'd like to participate again. Any team is fine by me.
   6526. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5685672)
What are the odds of scoring on a sideline-out-of-bounds play with 3 seconds left? Gotta be less than 50%, right? "Near certain upset victory" seems like a pretty big overreach.

This was the analysis I was hoping to see. Don't know if anyone did it and I missed. What was the win probability (1) at the point Hill was fouled (2) after he made the first FT (3) after he missed the second but before JR rebounded (4) once CLE had live ball possession (5) if CLE had dead ball possession.
   6527. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:45 PM (#5685678)
On a miss, unless you have a wide open layup or look you CALL TIMEOUT. How does that not get communicated? And are we really to believe Lebron didn't know they had a TO, even though he was calling one, when "informed" by Lue in that video? Come on. Dude was acting. Lebron has made an argument he's the GOAT but that's just awful leadership and sulking at a time he needed to be focused on OT. Sulk after the game. You're the GOAT you gotta be better.

Along with the factual wrongness that has already been pointed out, this is a no-win situation for LeBron. If he doesn't react, the same people getting on his case now, would be crying that he was checked out, didn't care, doesn't have TWTW, and the eye of the tiger and whatnot. These are people who want to find a reason to rip LeBron finding a reason to do so.
   6528. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5685691)
Agreed, FCTBPH/6527. The video is interesting, but I'm not inclined to overly credit or blame anyone for their reactions there,
   6529. Moeball Posted: June 04, 2018 at 03:49 PM (#5685766)
OK, I'm going to propose a theory on the other bit of controversy in G1, the charge/block switcheroo. Let's say in an alternate universe the refs DON'T overturn the charge call on Durant. Everyone assumes this means it's 100% guaranteed that CLE wins the game, getting the ball with 36 seconds to go and a 2 point lead. Of course LeBron would have worked the clock down and scored to give the Cavs a 4 point lead and the game, right? Well, just a moment there. Maybe it's not as automatic as people think. Maybe LeBron actually misses the shot and GSW gets the rebound with 12 seconds left and down by 2. Hey, it could happen. As great as LeBron is, he does actually miss a shot sometimes. 12 seconds is a lot of time for Curry to work with and it is quite possible that the Ws get a 2 to tie or a 3 to win. Crazier things have happened. Heck, crazier stuff actually DID happen. At least JR's blunder may have made some people forget that McGee had a dunk blocked by the rim! Although I think the rim may have fouled him...
   6530. jmurph Posted: June 04, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5685781)
Along with the factual wrongness that has already been pointed out, this is a no-win situation for LeBron. If he doesn't react, the same people getting on his case now, would be crying that he was checked out, didn't care, doesn't have TWTW, and the eye of the tiger and whatnot. These are people who want to find a reason to rip LeBron finding a reason to do so.

Yeah all of this.

What are the odds of scoring on a sideline-out-of-bounds play with 3 seconds left? Gotta be less than 50%, right? "Near certain upset victory" seems like a pretty big overreach.

Sure, this is correct, I exaggerated. I was trying to describe what was happening in the moment, because at the time it went from Hill is about to put them ahead to JR dribbling out the clock on regulation without even taking a shot pretty quickly, and it certainly felt like a near sure victory was squandered (I say this as someone cheering against Cleveland- I sure as hell thought it was ballgame entering that last sequence of events).
   6531. zenbitz Posted: June 04, 2018 at 05:31 PM (#5685837)
the end of regulation G1 for CLE #feelbadman way beyond the norm because they are such an underdog in the series, especially playing a game in Oakland.

If it was, say, McGee missing a dunk at then end of regulation -- even in Cleveland -- GWS fans would be like 'oh well get 'em next time'.
   6532. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 04, 2018 at 08:36 PM (#5685914)
I said when it happened: when the 4th quarter buzzer sounded after Game 1, I also thought Cleveland had won. I was applauding Smith for his heady play!
here's what i said when it happened:
6108. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: May 31, 2018 at 11:27 PM (#5683721)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

6114. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: May 31, 2018 at 11:28 PM (#5683727)
AHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
   6533. aberg Posted: June 05, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5686227)
Can we shut down this thread now and just migrate to the other one? We're not really dividing them in a meaningful way anyway. It's just confusing.
   6534. Booey Posted: June 05, 2018 at 01:24 PM (#5686260)
Can we shut down this thread now and just migrate to the other one? We're not really dividing them in a meaningful way anyway. It's just confusing.


Where is that one?
   6535. jmurph Posted: June 05, 2018 at 01:29 PM (#5686262)
   6536. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: August 06, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5721844)
Look like the NBA thread was closed - time for a new one?

Greg Monroe to TOR for the minimum. Nice signing (he's a potent scorer/passer, even if he doesn't stretch the floor or defend well), though he doesn't offer the change of pace from JV I'd like for them.
   6537. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 06, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5721852)
Yep. New thread.
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