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Saturday, February 17, 2018

OT - 2017-18 NBA thread (All-Star Weekend to End of Time edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  eliminationist rhetoric and precognition.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: February 17, 2018 at 02:09 AM | 6537 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   701. aberg Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:52 PM (#5637909)
I think their problem is that they've got a lot of ok guys, and a decent amount of money tied up on a bunch of average to good players. I guess the Harris contract moved with them getting Griffin. I think they show both how difficult it is to be good without a star, and how difficult it is to get a star.


I think that the issue is and has been for quite a while that Reggie Jackson just isn't that good. They pay and play him like a foundational piece and he might not be one of the 20 best PGs in the NBA. Even if they had the 10th best guy- someone like Kemba or Holiday- I feel like the partnership with Blake and Drummond would be plenty good enough to get them into the playoffs and maybe compete to win a series.
   702. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 14, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5637917)
Randle doesn't shoot the 3 or defend the rim. However, after the ASB, he's averaged 21/10/4 with excellent finishing (but providing very little else on offense). He can switch pretty well, but doesn't provide any shotblocking or steals (and he fouls too much).
His cap hold is going to be around $12.5, and he'll definitely get an offer that exceeds that. Yeah, he doesn't do stuff that we want 4s to do in the modern game, but the stuff he CAN do — muscle around inside, start the break by himself, good interior passing — never goes out of style. Assuming no one throws a max at him (a safe assumption), I'd still expect someone to give him... I dunno, 3 years, $48 million, maybe a little more?

It's hard to see the Rockets not matching on Capella, but the Lakers should go after him and see what max contracts they can get their hands on. After all that, if they end up with Capella, Randle would obviously walk, otherwise, they can just pick up his 5th year and see what happens. Everything hinges on which big name wants to come to LA.
   703. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 14, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5637921)
Rotoworld saying Klay Thomson has a broken thumb.
   704. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 14, 2018 at 02:12 PM (#5637933)
His cap hold is going to be around $12.5, and he'll definitely get an offer that exceeds that. Yeah, he doesn't do stuff that we want 4s to do in the modern game, but the stuff he CAN do — muscle around inside, start the break by himself, good interior passing — never goes out of style. Assuming no one throws a max at him (a safe assumption), I'd still expect someone to give him... I dunno, 3 years, $48 million, maybe a little more?

It's hard to see the Rockets not matching on Capella, but the Lakers should go after him and see what max contracts they can get their hands on. After all that, if they end up with Capella, Randle would obviously walk, otherwise, they can just pick up his 5th year and see what happens. Everything hinges on which big name wants to come to LA.

i'm not sure there's enough cap room across the league for anyone to pay randle more than the MLE.

signing capela to an offer sheet would force HOU to choose between him and any chance of signing lebron.
   705. The Good Face Posted: March 14, 2018 at 02:21 PM (#5637942)
His cap hold is going to be around $12.5, and he'll definitely get an offer that exceeds that. Yeah, he doesn't do stuff that we want 4s to do in the modern game, but the stuff he CAN do — muscle around inside, start the break by himself, good interior passing — never goes out of style. Assuming no one throws a max at him (a safe assumption), I'd still expect someone to give him... I dunno, 3 years, $48 million, maybe a little more?


The other problem with Randle and players with his skillset is they muck up your roster construction. If you want to go get a rim protector, now you're looking at having two guys on the court at the same time who can't shoot, which can muck up your spacing and limits your flexibility with the rest of your roster. Unless of course you can find a rim protector that can shoot, but those guys don't exactly grow on trees and tend to command big bucks. So you're stuck either running suboptimal offensive lineups or you're juggling rotations to keep one of your defensive big and Randle off the court at all times, which seems to defeat the purpose of having a guy like Randle, who can do lots of good stuff on the court (other than shoot 3s and protect the rim).

Could the Lakers afford Capela and George assuming they let Randle walk?
   706. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: March 14, 2018 at 02:36 PM (#5637957)
I'm not sure there's a world where the Rockets don't match Capela. He seems so critical to what they do.
   707. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 14, 2018 at 03:07 PM (#5637987)
I'm not sure there's a world where the Rockets don't match Capela. He seems so critical to what they do.
it's the world where they want to get lebron, resign paul and still have harden.

capela is good, but he's not special.
Could the Lakers afford Capela and George assuming they let Randle walk?
they can fit all 3.

capela isn't a max player.
george isn't eligible for the super-max.
randle might cost 10MM per year, but not much more.
   708. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 14, 2018 at 03:38 PM (#5638016)
I'm not sure there's a world where the Rockets don't match Capela. He seems so critical to what they do.
I agree with Spicey. On the other hand...
i'm not sure there's enough cap room across the league for anyone to pay randle more than the MLE.
I'm curious just how true this is. If another team offers Randle 3 years at $27 million, that might be something the Lakers just can't afford to match because it'll force them to eat the 2018-19 cap hold and they can't carry that AND two max contracts (I don't think). My personal preference would be for the team to keep him because I think he's useful, underrated, plays like a beast, and every team could use that kind of guy, but the Lakers have bigger problems to address first.
   709. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 14, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5638024)
I'm broadly curious about how the RFA market will shape up this year, as there are a number of good but flawed players in it. Randle, Capela, Smart, LaVine, Jabari Parker, and Nurkic are all players I would imagine their current teams would like to keep but aren't interested in overpaying, whatever that means to any given team and their cap sheet. (I assume the Magic give Gordon the max, but who knows?) They're also players I could see another team deciding they want to steal away with a big offer, but I don't know what teams would even have the money to try that this year. It seems like most of the markets for these players are going to be underwhelming, but I still expect one or two big curveballs.
   710. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 14, 2018 at 04:11 PM (#5638039)
I'm curious just how true this is. If another team offers Randle 3 years at $27 million, that might be something the Lakers just can't afford to match because it'll force them to eat the 2018-19 cap hold and they can't carry that AND two max contracts (I don't think). My personal preference would be for the team to keep him because I think he's useful, underrated, plays like a beast, and every team could use that kind of guy, but the Lakers have bigger problems to address first.

3/27 is lower than randle's cap hold, so him signing that kind of offer sheet is only a problem for the lakers if they intend to renounce randle's bird rights and resign him into cap space instead.


my (fuzzy) math could be wrong, but even after paying randle ~10MM and signing george to a max contract, i think LAL would still be 20-30MM under the cap. i think that would be enough for favors or capela. if not, you could probably fit KCP and nerlens noel.
   711. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 14, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5638054)
3/27 is lower than randle's cap hold, so him signing that kind of offer sheet is only a problem for the lakers if they intend to renounce randle's bird rights and resign him into cap space instead.
Randle's cap hold is around $12.5 million this coming year, so I think that the Lakers would do exactly that if they bring him back. Your fuzzy math looks about right to me; I think one max UFA + either an expensive RFA and or equivalent contract would be a great haul, depending on who those guys were, of course.
   712. stanmvp48 Posted: March 14, 2018 at 04:53 PM (#5638058)
If I am not mistaken, the Clippers are 12-5 since trading Blake Griffin
   713. smileyy Posted: March 14, 2018 at 05:41 PM (#5638101)
How much NCAA tournament interest is there here? I guess it hasn't really gotten started in any meaningful way, so maybe it hasn't shown up yet?
   714. Rob_Wood Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:34 PM (#5638221)
Since it is easy to start a new thread, and since some people really don't like the NCAA discussion to co-mingle with the NBA discussion, I would suggest that somebody interested in discussing the NCAA tournament start a new NCAA tourney thread.

:)
   715. JJ1986 Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:48 PM (#5638227)
The Capulator says the Lakers can sign another 30% max player with Paul George and Julius Randle's cap hold if they stretch Deng. They still have $7 million if they do PG, Capela and Randle and probably a bit more once Randle signed.
   716. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: March 14, 2018 at 10:55 PM (#5638231)
it's the world where they want to get lebron, resign paul and still have harden.

They only do that if LeBron goes on national TV (with a book entitled TROUT in the background) and says he's taking his talents to Houston if they clear space for him. They wouldn't risk it otherwise.

I also think that Paul could be a casualty in that situation. And hell, Paul may be better than LeBron at this point. Yeah I said it. They also have Ariza and Tucker, and while generally they aren't the kind of guys you let stand in the way of getting LeBron, I feel like you're severely nerfing the value of LeBron or Harden if you have all 3 of those guys. LeBron and Harden are really only LeBron and Harden with the ball in their hands. I also like Capela's age which fits nicely for stretching their window more than Paul + James does.
   717. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: March 15, 2018 at 10:01 AM (#5638311)
I'm with Hombre so far as liking Randle goes. He is one bad mofo down low and plays with a real edge.

I'm also with TGF, though, that it's really hard to fit him into a modern NBA lineup because in 2018 if you don't have at least four shooters on the floor, you lose--with the sole possible exception of having two non-shooters who are elite defenders. But Randle isn't an elite defender. He's probably more valuable to a mediocre team than one with title aspirations. I sure do enjoy watching him do his thing, though.
   718. The Good Face Posted: March 15, 2018 at 10:26 AM (#5638332)
I'm with Hombre so far as liking Randle goes. He is one bad mofo down low and plays with a real edge.

I'm also with TGF, though, that it's really hard to fit him into a modern NBA lineup because in 2018 if you don't have at least four shooters on the floor, you lose--with the sole possible exception of having two non-shooters who are elite defenders. But Randle isn't an elite defender. He's probably more valuable to a mediocre team than one with title aspirations. I sure do enjoy watching him do his thing, though.


I think he could be part of a contending team, but the fit would need to be right. Pair him with a guy like Porzingis or Anthony Davis, throw in a solid point guard, a couple 3&D wings, and baby you got a stew going. But how many KPs and ADs are there in the league really? Randle's fun to watch though, and instantly makes whatever team he's on more physical.
   719. Booey Posted: March 15, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5638361)
If Favors leaves I wouldn't mind the Jazz going after Randle (at a reasonable price, of course).
   720. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 15, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5638389)
I think he could be part of a contending team, but the fit would need to be right.
Again, I really like Randle, but he's very likely on the wrong team right now. He's probably best on a team with a slower pace, next to a big guy who provides the defense he doesn't, and everyone else will have to be able to shoot because he can't. If he played in the 90s, he'd be an All-Star point forward, but today... I dunno what he is. He's too good not to want, but not good enough to pay big money for. I do think he's good enough to keep, though. His ability to start the break on his own is really valuable to a team like the Lakers that wants to run, and while he can't shoot from any range, he's a terrific rebounder — he's 10th in the league in DRB% (minimum 1500 MP).
   721. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 15, 2018 at 12:13 PM (#5638419)
And hell, Paul may be better than LeBron at this point.

My gut reaction was to argue this. There's a lot to consider here for Houston if it really were an either or decision. They're essentially the same age (but LeBron has quite a bit more miles due to their playoff success differences), but Paul is a much bigger injury risk. Is LeBron's defense really just this now, or is it an effort thing? In a way, I could see how LeBron would benefit being on a team with guys like Harden and Capela that seem like they'd compliment his skills well.

   722. smileyy Posted: March 15, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5638581)
[718] There's probably....three of those guys? AD, KP and KAT?
   723. If on a winter's night a baserunner Posted: March 15, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5638634)
[718] There's probably....three of those guys? AD, KP and KAT?


What do we mean by "those guys"? Can play a majority of their minutes at center, anchor a good defense, and hit 3s at decent percentage and volume?

If so, I can think of AD and Horford, healthy KP, maybe KAT (not sold on his defense yet, though he certainly has the potential), maybe healthy Cousins. Green and Durant for stretches. Not a long list, though.

I wonder how a guy like Randle compares to a guy like Rubio* at this point in terms of what they take off the table for team construction. Seems like there has been an ongoing flattening of positional adjustments when it comes to the value of long-range shooting.

* Depending on how resilient his improved finishing has been this season, Rubio may not be the right guy for this thought exercise anymore; it's been a while since I've checked in on the Jazz, despite the run they've been on.
   724. The Good Face Posted: March 15, 2018 at 04:18 PM (#5638647)
[718] There's probably....three of those guys? AD, KP and KAT?

What do we mean by "those guys"? Can play a majority of their minutes at center, anchor a good defense, and hit 3s at decent percentage and volume?

If so, I can think of AD and Horford, healthy KP, maybe KAT (not sold on his defense yet, though he certainly has the potential), maybe healthy Cousins. Green and Durant for stretches. Not a long list, though.


Be interesting to see how this changes over the next few years. In the upcoming draft alone, you've got Jaren Jackson Jr., who projects as a top tier defender and is already an excellent shooter, Ayton, whose ceiling is basically Dwight Howard plus a 3 point shot, and Mo Bamba, whose ceiling is Gobert plus a 3 point shot. Bamba's shooting is much more of a work in progress than the other guys, and his floor is lower, but still. Up and coming elite bigs have very clearly noticed that shooting 3s is a skill everybody wants and seem to be reacting accordingly.
   725. Booey Posted: March 15, 2018 at 04:27 PM (#5638652)
* Depending on how resilient his improved finishing has been this season, Rubio may not be the right guy for this thought exercise anymore; it's been a while since I've checked in on the Jazz, despite the run they've been on.


Rubio has been frustratingly inconsistent this year (and I suppose every year). 68 games into the season and I'm still not sure whether I like him or not. He's often bad, but he breaks through with a brilliant game or stretch of games often enough to keep me hopeful and prevent me from writing those games off as a fluke. Which again, has basically been the story of his entire career, hasn't it?

On a semi-related note, I'm (almost certainly irrationally) excited that Dante Exum is set to return this week.
   726. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 15, 2018 at 06:31 PM (#5638728)
Rubio has been frustratingly inconsistent this year (and I suppose every year). 68 games into the season and I'm still not sure whether I like him or not. He's often bad, but he breaks through with a brilliant game or stretch of games often enough to keep me hopeful and prevent me from writing those games off as a fluke. Which again, has basically been the story of his entire career, hasn't it?

On a semi-related note, I'm (almost certainly irrationally) excited that Dante Exum is set to return this week.
yeah, i'm all the way out on rubio. he flaws are too prominent for an ambitious team to be able to mask.

i'm out on exum, too, but at least he's young. he's missed so much development time, and unlike embiid, he lacks exceptional physical tools, an uncanny feel for the sport, and he's never had success against high level competition. has he even played well in summer league?

Again, I really like Randle, but he's very likely on the wrong team right now. He's probably best on a team with a slower pace, next to a big guy who provides the defense he doesn't, and everyone else will have to be able to shoot because he can't. If he played in the 90s, he'd be an All-Star point forward, but today... I dunno what he is. He's too good not to want, but not good enough to pay big money for. I do think he's good enough to keep, though. His ability to start the break on his own is really valuable to a team like the Lakers that wants to run, and while he can't shoot from any range, he's a terrific rebounder — he's 10th in the league in DRB% (minimum 1500 MP).

i think the next wave of basketball analytics is going to be about creating extra possessions. basically, offensive rebounds and steals.

once average teams start shooting 35+ 3PAs per game, everyone is going to start looking for the next advantage they can find, and it's going to be pairing an IND/CHI/MEM/OKC front court with a HOU/GSW/POR backcourt. take a pair of guards who create their own shot and launch 10 3PAs per game, and then add a bunch of young 6'8-6'10 offensive rebounders to crash the glass and generate extra shots.


this is more fuzzy math, but in games over the last 3 years, teams that have a 3PAr over 40% with an ORB% over 30% are 82-33. if you take away games where teams shoot under 30% from beyond the arc, the record jumps to 71-16.
if you nerf those numbers down to 35% 3PAr, 26% ORB% and 30% 3P%, teams in the last 3 years are 306-147.

   727. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 15, 2018 at 09:52 PM (#5638775)
clutch loss for the knicks.
   728. TFTIO is Lounging from the flat one Posted: March 15, 2018 at 10:53 PM (#5638799)
The Grizz, too.
   729. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: March 16, 2018 at 01:08 AM (#5638828)
By many measures, this has been the worst year of Rubio's career.
   730. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 16, 2018 at 09:48 AM (#5638890)
The Grizz, too.

The Grizz actually was playing their starters in the 4th with the Bulls going all bench. MEM was up 1, but Tyreke fouled Andrew Blakeney on a 3pt shot with under 2 seconds left. He made 2 of 3 FTs, and Gasol missed a jumper to win (the Grizz actually got a putback dunk, but after time expired). The Grizzlies have earned this 19 game losing streak.
   731. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 16, 2018 at 10:07 AM (#5638903)
By many measures, this has been the worst year of Rubio's career.


I hate to play armchair psychologist, but as much as I love Rubio I get the sense than he is somewhat fragile (physically and non-physically) and kind of suspect the change in scenery really hurt his production. Take with a massive boulder of salt though.
   732. jmurph Posted: March 16, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5638953)
The Cavs are now 7-7 since the new guys started playing, and still don't look like they can guard anyone. If they get out of the East again this year Toronto and Washington need to just give up (I'll make a one year exception for Boston due to the injuries).
   733. Booey Posted: March 16, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5638954)
Speaking of Rubio, is he a major trash talker, or something? After Jared Dudley and Marquese Chriss both got themselves ejected last night for taking turns shoving Rubio to the ground, that now makes 3 opposing players in Utah's last 8 games to get tossed for a seemingly unprovoked attack on the Spanish Unicorn (Jeff Teague was ejected 2 weeks ago for shoulder checking Rubio into the sidelines for no apparent reason). I assume they had their reasons, but nothing was obvious from the replays.

Something about him really seems to rub opponents the wrong way.
   734. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 16, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5638989)
Something about him really seems to rub opponents the wrong way.
not to go full maga, but rubio looks like he uses mayonnaise for deodorant.

i don't think rubio's play this year is much different than previous years. what's different is that donovan mitchell handles the ball more than anyone he's ever played with.


dario saric, last 25 games:
50/45/87
17.6 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 2.6 APG
65% TS%, 23% usage

he needs to take more shots, and the sixers need him to take more shots.
   735. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: March 16, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5638993)
731/mellow mouse: I'm not sure that you're wrong. Part of it is also system, he hasn't been in ballhandling creator mode nearly as often with the Jazz as he was with the Wolves.
--
Marcus Smart to have thumb surgery, out for the rest of the regular season. (woj)
   736. jmurph Posted: March 16, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5639001)
Marcus Smart to have thumb surgery, out for the rest of the regular season. (woj)

Further says there's hope he'll return "sometime in the playoffs." Boston might struggle to beat anyone in the playoffs but Milwaukee or Miami at this point.
   737. TFTIO is Lounging from the flat one Posted: March 16, 2018 at 12:37 PM (#5639044)
I honestly wonder if the second best team in the East right now ... is the Bullets?
   738. jmurph Posted: March 16, 2018 at 12:45 PM (#5639049)
I honestly wonder if the second best team in the East right now ... is the Bullets?

If that's true we're in trouble, because they are not very good.
   739. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 16, 2018 at 01:02 PM (#5639064)
I honestly wonder if the second best team in the East right now ... is the Bullets?

i'm not betting against lebron.

i would not want to deal with MIL, either, because there's always a risk that things start clicking for them. they're not getting a whole lot from henson, parker, brogdon, middleton, bledsoe, but any of those guys could be a game changer for them.

   740. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: March 16, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5639069)
I honestly wonder if the second best team in the East right now ... is the Bullets?

LeBron or the Sixers.
   741. jmurph Posted: March 16, 2018 at 01:13 PM (#5639070)
i would not want to deal with MIL, either, because there's always a risk that things start clicking for them. they're not getting a whole lot from henson, parker, brogdon, middleton, bledsoe, but any of those guys could be a game changer for them.

I think the Bucks are just bad when you get down to it, and no decent team is going to let Giannis beat them 4 times in 2 weeks when a. there are very few other threats to score and b. he can't shoot even a little.
   742. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 16, 2018 at 01:31 PM (#5639078)
LeBron or the Sixers.
the sixers are going to dump 2 games out of 7, just due to youth and inexperience. this year is going to be a gutpunch and a learning experience.

I think the Bucks are just bad when you get down to it, and no decent team is going to let Giannis beat them 4 times in 2 weeks when a. there are very few other threats to score and b. he can't shoot even a little.

they have a ton of length on defense, they have at least two guys (and as many as 4) who can create off the dribble, they have shooters like teletovic, snell, dellavadova, brogdon, middleton. all of their key players are in their prime, too.

they have everything they need to contend, except coaching and shot selection.
   743. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 16, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5639082)
Yeah, I think the Bucks are going to be more dangerous in the playoffs than they look. Especially to a team like Boston.

This year is just different than they last few for the Cavs. I'm not going to doubt LeBron - he'll win a series on his own - but there's less there than the last few years (yes, injuries are hurting them, but they have injury prone guys).
   744. jmurph Posted: March 16, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5639087)
Yeah, I think the Bucks are going to be more dangerous in the playoffs than they look. Especially to a team like Boston.

I think my track record of being not particularly confident in my own team is well established, but I think a fully healthy (non Hayward division) Celtics team wins in 4 or 5. The Bucks have the underlying stats of a below .500 team. They're not good. We've been hearing about their defensive length for like three years now and they remain a bad defensive team.

Now obviously Milwaukee will win the series, because I'm a jinx.
   745. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 16, 2018 at 02:30 PM (#5639100)
I honestly wonder if the second best team in the East right now ... is the Bullets?


I read this and the responses and I got my dander up about Toronto until I reread it and saw "second best team". Never mind.
   746. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 16, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5639136)
Speaking of Rubio, is he a major trash talker, or something? After Jared Dudley and Marquese Chriss both got themselves ejected last night for taking turns shoving Rubio to the ground, that now makes 3 opposing players in Utah's last 8 games to get tossed for a seemingly unprovoked attack on the Spanish Unicorn (Jeff Teague was ejected 2 weeks ago for shoulder checking Rubio into the sidelines for no apparent reason). I assume they had their reasons, but nothing was obvious from the replays.

Something about him really seems to rub opponents the wrong way.


I was wondering the same thing, but doesn't sound like there was anything Rubio did that pissed off Dudley:
@JaredDudley619
Follow Follow @JaredDudley619
More Jared Dudley Retweeted Ricardo Roedor
Thought Quese got fouled, Ref gave them the ball while he was on the ground with my other teammate trying to help him up.. I wanted to stop the fast break( I always do this) The push was a little much but he flopped and sold it.. Flagrant 1 or 2 and you move on..


The hardest Dudley's run in years was to make that cheap shot because the Jazz had a potential fastbreak after Chriss airballed a dunk.

Rubio has been much better lately with the Jazz, especially defensively. I don't see anything dirty, but I can see how he'd annoy opponents and think this is why Teague made that cheap shot on him.

Jazz are now 20 of their last 22, and IIRC the only other times they've had a streak like this was in the two seasons they made the finals.
   747. Booey Posted: March 16, 2018 at 04:25 PM (#5639152)
Jazz are now 20 of their last 22


And their next 3 games are against tankers (SAC, ATL, DAL), so a second 11 game winning streak and a 23-2 overall record in a 25 game span seems likely. Their 11 game (and counting) road winning streak is a new franchise record and something that not even the finals teams could match.

IIRC the only other times they've had a streak like this was in the two seasons they made the finals.


Yeah. IIRC the 1997 Jazz missed a 25 game winning streak by 2 pts. They had a 15 game streak (their 2nd of the season) snapped in LAL when Shaq hit a little hook at the buzzer to give the Lakers a 2 pt win. Then the Jazz won their last 4 games of the regular season and their first 5 of the playoffs for another 9 gamer.
   748. Booey Posted: March 16, 2018 at 04:38 PM (#5639158)
Seems like there's more long winning streaks this year than usual, no? As mentioned, the Jazz will likely put up their second 11 gamer in the last 25 games. Toronto and Portland are both in the midst of double digit streaks. Houston recently lost a 17 gamer. The Pels recently lost a 10 gamer. And that's just in the last couple weeks.

Is it cuz there's more tankers than usual? Feels like there's only a few garden variety bad teams (Lakers, Pistons, Horcats), and everyone else is either over .500 and in the playoff hunt, or just plain awful and gunning for the #1 pick.
   749. jmurph Posted: March 16, 2018 at 04:46 PM (#5639161)
I'm really hoping it ends up Houston-Utah, but that seems unlikely I guess. Jazz fans are probably not hoping for that, but as a neutral (I'd probably cheer for Utah in that series), it seems like the best contrast of styles/skills.
   750. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 16, 2018 at 04:49 PM (#5639163)
...[the Bucks] have everything they need to contend, except coaching and shot selection.
Coaching has a lot to do with shot selection. I think it's all coaching and front office, and that's not something that's going to get fixed anytime soon. They need a dramatic change in philosophies. If I had to bet, I'd bet heavily that the Bucks get butchered in a first round matchup... by the Raptors, because Miami's going to catch and pass them for 7th in the conference.
   751. JC in DC Posted: March 16, 2018 at 04:58 PM (#5639165)
Don't know the answer, but the question was provoked by the streaks question: are there more terrible/tanking teams than ever? I mean, there's a ton of teams not trying at all currently.
   752. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 16, 2018 at 05:09 PM (#5639171)
I'm really hoping it ends up Houston-Utah, but that seems unlikely I guess. Jazz fans are probably not hoping for that, but as a neutral (I'd probably cheer for Utah in that series), it seems like the best contrast of styles/skills.

i think utah matches up better with GSW. HOU is actually a good rebounding team, but GSW can be shredded by UTA's frontcourt. GSW is also a lot less likely to get gobert into constant foul trouble.

Coaching has a lot to do with shot selection. I think it's all coaching and front office, and that's not something that's going to get fixed anytime soon. They need a dramatic change in philosophies. If I had to bet, I'd bet heavily that the Bucks get butchered in a first round matchup... by the Raptors, because Miami's going to catch and pass them for 7th in the conference

i wonder if MIL could swap bledsoe and jabari parker for kemba walker and marvin williams this summer.
   753. Booey Posted: March 16, 2018 at 05:16 PM (#5639172)
BTW, if the Jazz finish around where most the projections have them at (about 47-35 and the 5th seed), Quin Snyder has to get some consideration for COY, right? After losing their top 2 scorers from last season in free agency - and losing Gobert for 26 games to injury - Utah looks likely to only drop a few games off their record from last year, and probably finish right around the same playoff seed. Spoelstra got lots of votes last year for turning around an awful start to finish right at .500, and the Jazz will be well above that. I read an article that showed their turnaround could end up being the largest in NBA history - from 9 games under .500 in late January to 12-ish games over.

Who else will be in the COY conversation?

- The Raptors have a better record than anyone predicted, but they still finished 2nd (or tied for 2nd) in each of the last 2 seasons. Finishing 1st instead isn't THAT huge of a leap, especially considering that their top competition in the East (Boston, Cleveland) have dealt with some pretty major injuries.

- No one picked Portland to finish 3rd in the West, but that's mainly cuz teams like the Spurs, Thunder, and Wolves are all worse than people thought they'd be (for various reasons). The Blazers actual win total (probably around 50), isn't that much better than the pre-season predictions (about 45-ish). And without looking it up, I'd guess that 50 wins would probably be the weakest #3 seed in the West in a couple decades. Maybe there was a division winner with less than that, but for the actual 3rd best record in the conference, I doubt there was since when, the 80's?

- Indiana is a lot better than anyone thought they'd be after losing PG, so there's a contender, I guess.

- NOP is better than most people thought, but they have a top 10 player in his prime. They SHOULD be at least a 45 win team, so...meh. I think they underachieved the last couple seasons.

- Houston won 56 games last year and then added another top 10 player. They were supposed to be a contender.

- Clippers might be defying expectations a bit after losing Paul and Griffen. But no one likes Doc, anymore, right?


Who am I missing?
   754. Booey Posted: March 16, 2018 at 05:23 PM (#5639174)
I'm really hoping it ends up Houston-Utah, but that seems unlikely I guess.


Unless you mean in the WCF, I don't think this matchup is that unlikely. Jazz could finish 4th or 5th and beat another team with a similar record to move on to play Houston in the 2nd round. I'd bet on Utah against most the other teams in the West's 3-10 cluster.

i think utah matches up better with GSW.


Same. As weird as it seems since GSW is the defending champs and swept Utah out of the postseason last year, I'd much rather play the Warriors than the Rockets. Houston is one of the Jazz's losses in that 20-2 run and swept the season series 4-0 (and only one of those games was by single digits). Meanwhile, Utah has a 30 pt win vs GSW. Houston is just a really bad match up.
   755. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 16, 2018 at 05:25 PM (#5639176)
Don't know the answer, but the question was provoked by the streaks question: are there more terrible/tanking teams than ever? I mean, there's a ton of teams not trying at all currently.

this year, there are 8 teams with a win percentage under 35% (SAC, PHO, ORL, ATL, DAL, BRK, MEM, NYK).
over the previous 10 years, the average number of teams with a win percentage under 35% is 6.

the previous high was 8, in 2012 (WAS, TOR, SAC, NOH, NJ, GSW, CLE, CHA -- that's an interesting and...divergent, mix of teams)

what's interesting is that in the last 3 years, there were only 13 combined teams with a win percentage under 35%.
2017: PHO, PHI, LAL, BRK.
2016: PHO, PHI, LAL, BRK.
2015: PHI, LAL, ORL, NYK, MIN.


so, compared to the last 2 or 3 years, the number of "tanking" teams has doubled, but this year is not out of line compared to the last 10 years.
   756. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: March 16, 2018 at 05:33 PM (#5639180)
I think my track record of being not particularly confident in my own team is well established, but I think a fully healthy (non Hayward division) Celtics team wins in 4 or 5. The Bucks have the underlying stats of a below .500 team. They're not good. We've been hearing about their defensive length for like three years now and they remain a bad defensive team.


I haven't watched them in a few weeks now, but under their new coach they'd been retaining their infuriating habit of going under every single ####### screen and it gets them murdered. They just don't seem to understand how basketball is played in 2018.

Giannis is really pushing the limits of how good a basketball player can be in 2018 if he can't shoot. The Bucks need to play him at center (and get him to buy into same), surround him with shooters/slashers and go super small, IMO. John Henson is a mediocre player and also the kind of player who can't play with Giannis, because in the modern NBA you can't win with two non-shooters on the floor unless they're both elite defenders. Maybe Giannis and DeAndre could work with the right three teammates. Giannis and Henson is never going to work.

If I'm them I'm looking to add another excellent shooter and roll out a lineup of Bledsoe-???-Middleton-Parker-Giannis. And a real coach, of course.
   757. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 16, 2018 at 05:57 PM (#5639188)
it just hit me that the sixers have been waiting for the lakers pick to convey since before the lakers picked julius randle, who is now about to be a free agent. that pick was top 7 protected in 2014 (LAL picked 7th), top 5 protected in 2015 (LAL picked 2nd), top 3 protected in 2016 and 2017 (LAL picked 2nd and 2nd), and now it's finally unprotected...and the lakers are nowhere near the top 5. that's credible.

that got me looking through past BBTF threads again, and i found these:
Sure, but I think the entire problem people have with the Sixers is the meaning of the word "when" in #6 - it makes the rebuild indefinite, and the Sixers have only encouraged that view with their actions. I don't think anybody would really object to the Sixers' "plan" if they don't do all of (i) take an injured Embiid, (ii) take an MIA Saric and (iii) trade MCW for an asset two years down the road. Is the long term outlook of the Sixers materially worse with MCW and two viable actual basketball playing alternatives to Embiid and Saric? I'm not sure. They could use cap space this year to try to sign an actual good NBA player, and they would still have cap space to use next year as the cap increases, except they likely would be entering free agency with a young and competitive team that might be attractive to free agents. Maybe that team has a lower shot of coming across a transcendent superstar, but that's a pretty low probability event in any case.
it'd be pretty sweet if the sixers could come out of draft night with MCW/smart/anderson/favors/noel
[ed note: that's kyle anderson)
does anyone else see david lee as a good comp for julius randle?
A Lebron, Love, Irving trio would be pretty damn easy to build a juggernaut team around, if that could happen somehow.
I assume that people are basing this on a scenario in which Love and Rubio both commit to signing long-term in Cleveland, which is hard for me to picture actually happening. I think Cleveland should keep things as simple as possible-just take Wiggins or Embiid, make a competitive offer to Deng and/or to another FA they like better.
   758. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 16, 2018 at 06:22 PM (#5639201)
Who am I missing?

He's not the lead pipe cinch he was for the first half or so of the season, perhaps, but the work Brad Stevens has done in weathering the loss of Gordon Hayward, developing a rookie-heavy team, and managing his rotation amidst more injuries puts him squarely in contention, I'd think.
   759. Booey Posted: March 16, 2018 at 07:03 PM (#5639208)
He's not the lead pipe cinch he was for the first half or so of the season, perhaps, but the work Brad Stevens has done in weathering the loss of Gordon Hayward, developing a rookie-heavy team, and managing his rotation amidst more injuries puts him squarely in contention, I'd think.


Maybe. He's still got 2 all stars, and the team won 53 games the year before with Horford, an all star scoring PG, and no Hayward, so pretty similar to what they've got this season.

That's my reasoning, anyway. I agree that others (including the actual voters) could see it differently.
   760. PJ Martinez Posted: March 16, 2018 at 07:32 PM (#5639214)
It was Stevens's award to lose for a while. Now I imagine it's between him, Casey, and D'Antoni -- but Snyder could definitely get into that conversation as well. It's pretty much a purely narrative-driven award, and I'm not sure any narrative has fully taken hold since the Stevens story faded somewhat.
   761. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: March 16, 2018 at 07:56 PM (#5639219)
It'll be Casey.
   762. TFTIO is Lounging from the flat one Posted: March 16, 2018 at 08:09 PM (#5639221)
You know who it won't? Thibs. I'm not sure that he's any better as a coach qua coach than Mitchell was; I attribute all of the improvement of the team this year to Jimmy Butler.
   763. PJ Martinez Posted: March 16, 2018 at 08:54 PM (#5639230)
Thoughts on this idea for free-throw reform?

I think you'd have to get two shots when fouled shooting a three -- one worth two, the other worth one. But otherwise it doesn't seem that crazy to me. (I don't think it's really necessary either, but it's at least conceivable to me that it could maybe be an improvement.)
   764. TFTIO is Lounging from the flat one Posted: March 16, 2018 at 09:41 PM (#5639234)
Dallas, WTF are you doing?
   765. tshipman Posted: March 16, 2018 at 10:05 PM (#5639240)
Thoughts on this idea for free-throw reform?

I think you'd have to get two shots when fouled shooting a three -- one worth two, the other worth one. But otherwise it doesn't seem that crazy to me. (I don't think it's really necessary either, but it's at least conceivable to me that it could maybe be an improvement.)


I don't get the point of it. If you think games have too many FTs, just decide to make more plays non-FT fouls.

This year FT attempts are down 2 per game across the NBA and sit at 21.9 FTA. I checked back about 20 years and it's the lowest I could find.

This is a solution in search of a problem. Not in favor.
   766. Tin Angel Posted: March 16, 2018 at 10:54 PM (#5639255)
Durant out for at least two weeks. Klay also out two weeks, and Curry is "day to day" but I'd guess he will be out for a couple of weeks too.
   767. Tin Angel Posted: March 16, 2018 at 11:38 PM (#5639274)
...and Casspi just went down with an ankle injury.
   768. JC in DC Posted: March 16, 2018 at 11:52 PM (#5639281)
... and Virginia just went down.
   769. smileyy Posted: March 17, 2018 at 12:13 AM (#5639292)
The March Madness thread has some good coverage of it
   770. Booey Posted: March 17, 2018 at 01:00 AM (#5639312)
Warriors just lost at home to the Kings. Apparently Curry, Durant, and Thompson DO make a difference after all. Just in case anyone wasn't sure.
   771. Booey Posted: March 17, 2018 at 01:04 AM (#5639315)
Thoughts on this idea for free-throw reform?


I think you'd see a ridiculous amount of foul hunting with this rule, especially on 3's. Why would the Harden types EVER try to actually make a 3 pt shot when they could just jump into the guy and make a single 3 pt free throw instead?

Edit: And yeah, like tship said, this is attempting to "solve" a problem that doesn't exist. NBA games finish in about 2 and a half hours like clockwork (and that's already including halftime, time outs, and free throws). That's about perfect for a sporting event.
   772. stevegamer Posted: March 17, 2018 at 02:10 AM (#5639325)
Thoughts on this idea for free-throw reform?


Apparently written by a guy who only sort of watches sports.

1. Golf, only Tiger Woods is worth watching. Fast-forward the rest.
2. Baseball, fast forward the regular season. At least I think that's what he means.

Clickbait from a writer who isn't worth reading, as far as I could tell. A solution in search of a problem, when the actual problem seems to be that he's got attention span issues. Simply don't watch sports then, and just catch highlight shows. I hear ESPN might have one.
   773. PJ Martinez Posted: March 17, 2018 at 07:47 AM (#5639334)
Apparently written by a guy who only sort of watches sports.

One of the guys supporting the proposal in that exchange (which is transcribed from a podcast) is Kevin Arnovitz. He watches a lot of basketball. Josh Levin, making the case, watches a lot of sports, though my sense is that NBA basketball is not his main thing (and I can't speak to his attention span).

I tend to agree that it's not necessary, as noted in 763, and that you couldn't have any free throws worth three points, as also noted in 763. But the idea of raising the stakes of each free throw is interesting to me. It might not be an improvement, and it's not really necessary, but it *would* make things more dramatic. (Maybe there would be more foul-hunting? But as long as you tweaked the three-point rule, I'm not sure that's the case.)
   774. PJ Martinez Posted: March 17, 2018 at 07:49 AM (#5639335)
"15 of the top 16 players in our Top 100 prospects made the NCAA Tournament (everyone except Luka Doncic, shame on him). That's never happened in my 15 years covering the NBA Draft. Unfortunately 6 of them (Ayton, Bamba, Porter, Trae, Lonnie, Gafford) were eliminated after 1 game."
   775. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: March 17, 2018 at 09:30 AM (#5639341)
Andre Drummond is working on his jumper. Being a Pistons fan gets more and more awesome every day:

“That’s something I’ve worked on all season behind closed doors, taking my time to critique it, perfect it and next season, I should be shooting them consistently,” Drummond said. “Going into year seven of my career, it’s time I expand my game; the game has changed each year. “It’s about time I start shooting those little jump shots around the free-throw line; when I’m left wide open, I should be able to shoot that shot.”
   776. Booey Posted: March 17, 2018 at 10:39 AM (#5639349)
Andre Drummond is working on his jumper.


Wonder if he's watching videos of white people on the internet. Just regular white people.

Joel Embiid is an (inter) national treasure.
   777. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 17, 2018 at 11:08 AM (#5639353)
Wonder if he's watching videos of white people on the internet. Just regular white people.
they keep their elbows in and everything.

Andre Drummond is working on his jumper.
i think that's a bad idea, but i suspect it explains why drummond's FT% is at 61% this year, despite shooting under 40% from the FT line in 4 of his 5 seasons. yeah, he was that awful.


   778. JJ1986 Posted: March 17, 2018 at 12:57 PM (#5639376)
"15 of the top 16 players in our Top 100 prospects made the NCAA Tournament (everyone except Luka Doncic, shame on him). That's never happened in my 15 years covering the NBA Draft. Unfortunately 6 of them (Ayton, Bamba, Porter, Trae, Lonnie, Gafford) were eliminated after 1 game."
I'm gonna guess Troy Brown is 17th.
   779. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 17, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5639404)
today's semi-daily sixers update:

14 games left
9 home
5 road (ORL, ATL, CHA, DET, ATL)
3 B2Bs
1.5 GB of the 3 seed
magic number: 7
10 v. <.500 opponents
4 v. >.500 opponents (MIN, DEN, CLE, MIL)


they're not getting to 50 wins, but 45 would clinch a playoff spot and 48 is within their grasp.
   780. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: March 17, 2018 at 07:31 PM (#5639448)
Detroit's 6 games back of the 8 seed with 14 games left to play. The Eastern playoff teams are set, it's just about the seeding now. The 3 through 8 seeds are separated by only 3.5 games.

So is pretty much everyone on Golden State genuinely out with multi-week injuries, or is it more that the Warriors have decided to concede the 1 seed to Houston and just get everyone good and rested and fully healthy for the playoffs?
   781. TFTIO is Lounging from the flat one Posted: March 17, 2018 at 09:52 PM (#5639474)
Why TF does Jeff Teague overdribble and then take an off-balance midrange shot when Towns is on the floor?
   782. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 17, 2018 at 10:25 PM (#5639484)
The Cavaliers are 6-7 in their last 13 games with 5 of those six wins against Brooklyn, Detroit, Memphis, Chicago, and Phoenix.

They are not good right now.
   783. Booey Posted: March 18, 2018 at 12:01 AM (#5639491)
So with the Jazz winning and the Wolves and Pellies losing, Utah apparently jumps from 7th to 5th in the West. I'm honestly not sure why the Jazz are a higher seed than the Wolves right now though; they have identical 40-30 records and the Timberpups hold a 2-1 series edge. Any ideas?
   784. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 18, 2018 at 12:05 AM (#5639492)
magic number: 6
   785. tshipman Posted: March 18, 2018 at 12:33 AM (#5639498)
So with the Jazz winning and the Wolves and Pellies losing, Utah apparently jumps from 7th to 5th in the West. I'm honestly not sure why the Jazz are a higher seed than the Wolves right now though; they have identical 40-30 records and the Timberpups hold a 2-1 series edge. Any ideas?


I think it's divisional record?

This is a weird year in that it seems like half the league is on pace to win 45 games.
   786. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 18, 2018 at 12:33 AM (#5639499)
So with the Jazz winning and the Wolves and Pellies losing, Utah apparently jumps from 7th to 5th in the West. I'm honestly not sure why the Jazz are a higher seed than the Wolves right now though; they have identical 40-30 records and the Timberpups hold a 2-1 series edge. Any ideas?


Since Spurs are also tied, it goes by best record against the other two tied teams.
   787. Tin Angel Posted: March 18, 2018 at 01:24 AM (#5639504)
Huge, gutsy win for the Warriors tonight.
   788. TFTIO is Lounging from the flat one Posted: March 18, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5639546)
Some real nutcutting defence in the OKC/TOR game, huh.
   789. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 18, 2018 at 03:30 PM (#5639562)
i think that's a bad idea, but i suspect it explains why drummond's FT% is at 61% this year, despite shooting under 40% from the FT line in 4 of his 5 seasons. yeah, he was that awful.
I really did think that FT% was going to washing him out of the league sooner rather than later. He cannot be complemented enough for improving his FT% to over 60% from under 40%, and it speaks to the type of player he's become. He's only 24, in the early part of his prime. I really could not have been more wrong about him.
   790. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 18, 2018 at 03:30 PM (#5639563)
DeRozan tossed. It looked like refs had a very different whistle for the Thunder than the Raptors down the stretch.

Now Ibaka and Casey have been thrown out too. OKC played great and may have won anyway but these refs were an absolute joke.
   791. TFTIO is Lounging from the flat one Posted: March 18, 2018 at 06:11 PM (#5639592)
I expect Houston to beat the Twolves like a rented mule tonight, but I’m most interested in seeing how many points the “small ball” Jones/Rose/Crawford lineup surrenders. -20? -28?
   792. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 19, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5639713)
time for coach kobe.
   793. aberg Posted: March 19, 2018 at 01:24 PM (#5639812)
So is pretty much everyone on Golden State genuinely out with multi-week injuries, or is it more that the Warriors have decided to concede the 1 seed to Houston and just get everyone good and rested and fully healthy for the playoffs?


Kind of hard to fake a broken rib/thumb. Curry has hurt his ankles often enough that it wouldn't surprise me if they rest him to fully heal when he could otherwise play, though. They're already very unlikely to overtake Houston.

The Cavaliers are 6-7 in their last 13 games with 5 of those six wins against Brooklyn, Detroit, Memphis, Chicago, and Phoenix.

They are not good right now.


They're also missing Love, Hood, Thompson, Nance, Korver, and Osman. Oh, and Lue. In their last game, Jeff Green played 40 minutes, Calderon 36, and Zizc 20. John Holland and London Perrantes have been playing regularly for the last 2 weeks. They're a thin team that is also injured and also has been playing with 2 empty roster spots for luxury tax reasons.
   794. aberg Posted: March 19, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5639816)
By the way- does anyone know what is going on with Lue (other than the vague stuff reported by the big outlets)?

I expect Houston to beat the Twolves like a rented mule tonight, but I’m most interested in seeing how many points the “small ball” Jones/Rose/Crawford lineup surrenders. -20? -28?


Turned out to be mostly right, although Rose and Crawford oddly helped pull them back late. I still choose to think that Rose is going to win 2-3 more MVPs. I feel like the Wolves are 0-9 against the Rockets this year.

   795. jmurph Posted: March 19, 2018 at 01:42 PM (#5639826)
Wolves slip to 8th. But Denver isn't exactly a model of consistency and the Clippers might have finally realized they're not very good, so Minnesota might hold on now that the schedule is a little more favorable. They also get the Clippers, Utah, and Denver (x2) in the next 3ish weeks, which will be big.

We (errrr, I) probably fire people a little too frequently in this thread, but I'd fire Malone if Denver misses the playoffs. That team has a lot of talent and shouldn't be this up and down, even if a lot of that talent is pretty young.
   796. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 19, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5639844)
Before Lue took the LOA today, I was going to make a joke that it was something about watching the Bulls making him sick since it was the 2nd game this year against Chicago that he couldn't finish.

Obviously it must be pretty bad if he's taking leave now, so close to the playoffs starting.
   797. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 19, 2018 at 02:19 PM (#5639852)
Wolves slip to 8th. But Denver isn't exactly a model of consistency and the Clippers might have finally realized they're not very good, so Minnesota might hold on now that the schedule is a little more favorable. They also get the Clippers, Utah, and Denver (x2) in the next 3ish weeks, which will be big.
bkref has minnesota at 90% to make the playoffs, but that doesn't factor in jimmy butler's injury.
bkref has denver at 23%.
We (errrr, I) probably fire people a little too frequently in this thread, but I'd fire Malone if Denver misses the playoffs. That team has a lot of talent and shouldn't be this up and down, even if a lot of that talent is pretty young.

personally, i'd keep malone another year. that roster is talented, but it's also pretty fugly. their PG is a center, their best players are all SGs (murray, harris, barton, harris) and PFs (jokic, millsap, plumlee, faried, chandler, lyles) and none of them are particularly good at defense. they're gonna have to do some tweaking to get the chemistry right.

i wonder if they could swap millsap for batum. that would give DEN another 3+D wing who has some playmaking ability, create more playing time for lyles at the 4 and clear cap space this summer.
   798. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 19, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5639938)
Hardwood Paroxysm @HPbasketball 1h1 hour ago

Over the last 15 games, 8 Western Conference teams, all in the playoff race, have played .600 ball or better.

Denver has gone 9-6 (.600) and gone from 5th to 9th.


I have no strong opinion on Malone, but what would firing him accomplish? Would they be able to guarantee they're getting someone better?
   799. jmurph Posted: March 19, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5639959)
I have no strong opinion on Malone, but what would firing him accomplish? Would they be able to guarantee they're getting someone better?

I thought Denver was an easy playoff team entering the season and they're currently on the outside looking in. And that's with literally only 10 teams even attempting to make the playoffs. They're terrible on the road, which is possibly just a youth thing, but possibly also a preparation thing.

But sure, on the other hand I can see the case that they've improved year to year and are possibly just getting unlucky, particularly with Millsap missing a big chunk of time. Totally fair.

(Also I would never actually fire anyone in real life, I can barely stand to cut fantasy players.)
   800. aberg Posted: March 19, 2018 at 05:11 PM (#5639965)
I have no strong opinion on Malone, but what would firing him accomplish? Would they be able to guarantee they're getting someone better?


Agree. I'm in the "would not fire" camp. I think he's a good coach and he has done well with a pretty good roster in a touch conference. Preseason O/U was 43.5 wins and they are currently on pace for 44.4. Injury luck has probably been pretty average- Millsap has been out but the rest of the core has been mostly healthy. Among their young guys, Jokic and Harris have kind of plateaued while Murray and Lyles have shown positive development. They went from 4/29 ORTG/DRTG to 8/23. It seems like they are who they are, which is pretty good and unlikely to change unless Harris or Murray takes a big leap.
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