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Saturday, February 17, 2018

OT - 2017-18 NBA thread (All-Star Weekend to End of Time edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  eliminationist rhetoric and precognition.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: February 17, 2018 at 02:09 AM | 6537 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   801. aberg Posted: March 19, 2018 at 05:12 PM (#5639967)
flip
   802. JJ1986 Posted: March 19, 2018 at 05:43 PM (#5639984)
Jokic and Plumlee are obviously not power forwards in today's game.
   803. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: March 19, 2018 at 09:17 PM (#5640023)
Good teams can score on Denver whenever and however they like; they play dynamic offense but they can't get stops when they need them. I agree with aberg that that's pretty much who they are. I don't know that it's realistic to expect a coach to make a competent defensive team out of this group of players.
   804. sardonic Posted: March 19, 2018 at 09:49 PM (#5640026)
Some more details coming out about Lue's situation.

Lue has also been coughing up blood, team sources told ESPN's Dave McMenamin.


I don't care for him as a coach, but hope he's okay.
   805. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 19, 2018 at 10:46 PM (#5640034)
I know that LeBron's interest in playing defense is limited more often than it should and that the Cavaliers are having a mediocre year but the fact that LeBron is currently leading the league in minutes played, in is 15th NBA season, after reaching the Finals in 7 consecutive seasons, is just crazy. Especially when you consider that he is still capable of doing incredibly athletic things. The guy is 33 years old with a billion miles on him.

He recently had the posterization of Nurkic and today he grabbed a rebounded against Giannis, raced paced him, and went end to end for a slam to ice the game.

I am a LeBron fanboy and admit it. But this year has been amazing in a lot of ways.
   806. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 19, 2018 at 11:03 PM (#5640039)
@ESPNStatsInfo
According to @EliasSports, Ben Simmons is the first rookie with 3 triple-doubles in a 4-game span since Oscar Robertson in Feb. 1961. Robertson had several such spans as a rookie.

@ESPNStatsInfo
Ben Simmons has his 19th 10-assist game this season, passing Allen Iverson for the most by a rookie in 76ers history.

Simmons' 19 such games are the most by ANY rookie since John Wall (25) in 2010-11.


click this tomorrow.
click this whenever.


magic number: 4 (will be 3 if SAC beats DET tonight)
   807. RJ in TO Posted: March 19, 2018 at 11:16 PM (#5640042)
Lue has also been coughing up blood, team sources told ESPN's Dave McMenamin.

There are pretty much no situations where this is even close to good, right?
   808. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 19, 2018 at 11:38 PM (#5640048)
There are pretty much no situations where this is even close to good, right?

Sometimes relatively benign things like pneumonia or another type of infection can cause that. Sometimes a blood clot of the lung similar to what caused Chris Bosh to retire can cause them as well.

Basically, it's not necessarily always something like cancer.
   809. stevegamer Posted: March 19, 2018 at 11:43 PM (#5640050)
There are pretty much no situations where this is even close to good, right?


Short of it being some sort of theater, or possibly a vampire simply having blood go down the windpipe, no.
   810. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:06 AM (#5640055)
I mean it'd not be close to good were he a vampire: he has day games to coach!
   811. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:14 AM (#5640058)
I mean it'd not be close to good were he a vampire: he has day games to coach!


Well, but they're inside, right? I think it would be possible for a vampire to play in the NBA.

I'm assuming there is a movie with this premise.
   812. tshipman Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:42 AM (#5640068)
There are pretty much no situations where this is even close to good, right?


Where's theboyqueen when you need him? Just because the Kings are unwatchable ...

the best case scenario I've read/heard/thought about is that he had an ulcer exacerbated by stress and was told to stay away for that reason.

But yeah, seems not great, and best wishes to Lue while he recovers. Hopefully it's just a short thing.
   813. stevegamer Posted: March 20, 2018 at 02:56 AM (#5640072)
I mean it'd not be close to good were he a vampire: he has day games to coach!


Having investigated a claim of vampirism (yes, really) at one time, I can say that there would be no reason a vampire couldn't coach in the NBA, excluding things like an outdoor press conference. One can easily avoid direct sunlight for months at a time, if working in a field that is 100% indoors. I've seen it. Unsurprisingly, they were not a vampire.

It being a winter sport, with chartered flights usually at night, things should be pretty easy.
   814. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 20, 2018 at 07:32 AM (#5640088)
I mean, Thibs has the CRT tan and overall mien of the long undead.
   815. Booey Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5640181)
Well, but they're inside, right? I think it would be possible for a vampire to play in the NBA.

I'm assuming there is a movie with this premise.


And they'd be playing against Teen Wolf's team in the Finals. Movies like Underworld and Twilight taught us that vampires and werewolves are mortal enemies. Why not settle it on the court?

It's a billion dollar blockbuster idea. $$$$$
   816. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5640248)
click this tomorrow.
boom.

also, ben simmons now leads the 2016 draft class in win shares, despite missing all of last season.

also, ben simmons is the first rookie in NBA history to average X, X, X and X.
   817. aberg Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5640261)
Having investigated a claim of vampirism (yes, really) at one time, I can say that there would be no reason a vampire couldn't coach in the NBA, excluding things like an outdoor press conference. One can easily avoid direct sunlight for months at a time, if working in a field that is 100% indoors. I've seen it. Unsurprisingly, they were not a vampire.


The problem is that championship parades are always outdoors. In game 7 of the Finals, with exposure to sunlight and public knowledge of your vampirism on the line, you don't think the coach is compromised? We saw Butch van Breda Kolff bench Wilt down the stretch in the 69 Finals, and he didn't even have likely death to worry about.
   818. SteveF Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5640276)
also, ben simmons is the first rookie in NBA history to average X, X, X and X.

Obligatory.
   819. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: March 20, 2018 at 02:01 PM (#5640370)
@World_Wide_Wob:
Win or lose it is now every Cavs reporter’s responsibility to ask Kevin Love after game what exactly he was doing here
   820. jmurph Posted: March 20, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5640396)
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine
Detroit has expressed interest in hiring the former Pistons star Chauncey Billups to work in tandem with Arn Tellem in a totally revamped front office, according to league sources
   821. smileyy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 02:48 PM (#5640419)
[819] ROFL

My best explanation is that he was getting himself to a spot where he could roll over and stand up. That's the best I got.
   822. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: March 20, 2018 at 05:22 PM (#5640573)
also, ben simmons is the first rookie in NBA history to average X, X, X and X.

Obligatory.


MCW leads by 3% in scoring, trails by 25% in Rebounds and Assists, but Simmons has to go 90 for his next 73 Free Throws to catch MCW in that category.
   823. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:07 PM (#5640597)
John Schuhmann @johnschuhmann 37m37 minutes ago

On-off DefRtg leaders (team's DefRtg w/ player on floor - w/ player off floor)...
1. Andre Roberson (-11.6)
2. Yogi Ferrell (-10.3)
3. Kyle Korver (-10.1)
4. Jrue Holiday (-10.0)
5. Jimmy Butler (-9.4)

John Schuhmann @johnschuhmann 36m36 minutes ago

At the bottom of the on-off DefRtg list..
285. Wesley Matthews (+10.1)
284. LeBron James (+9.2)

The Cavs have been 9.2 points per 100 possessions better defensively w/ James off the floor (102.5 allowed) than they've been with him on the floor (111.6).
   824. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:13 PM (#5640605)
LeBron should get some defensive tips from his teammate Kyle Korver and noted defensive stopper Yogi Ferrell.

(For all the noise I think there is in that stat, it's a shame to see Wesley Matthews down at the bottom. His max effort, hard-nosed defense was fun to watch pre-Achilles injury.)
   825. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 20, 2018 at 08:30 PM (#5640670)
The refs didn't give it to him, but Russell Westbrook just threw that one of the all-time great in-game dunks ever seen.
   826. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 20, 2018 at 08:43 PM (#5640677)
@tomhaberstroh
Utah Jazz have gone 14-1 since acquiring Jae Crowder. The Rubio/DMitchell/Ingles/Crowder/Gobert lineup (it's 2nd most-used since trade) has a 76.4 DRtg in 119 minutes. That is f'ing sickening.
@tomhaberstroh
To illustrate how good Utah's defense is these days, check this out:

Lowest DRtgs since Feb 11 (UTA-CLE-LAL-SAC trade)
---
103 | IND (102.6) HOU (102.7)
102 | POR (101.6), SAS (102.3), GSW (102.4)
101 |
100 |
99 |
98 |
97 |
96 |
95 |
94 |
93 | Jazz (93.0)
   827. Booey Posted: March 20, 2018 at 08:50 PM (#5640679)
Is it possible for Gobert to win DPOY despite missing 26 games?
   828. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5640687)
Is it possible for Gobert to win DPOY despite missing 26 games?
Sure. I think it's going to be Embiid, though.
   829. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:28 PM (#5640691)
Not Anthony Davis?
   830. Tin Angel Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:57 PM (#5640694)
The refs didn't give it to him, but Russell Westbrook just threw that one of the all-time great in-game dunks ever seen.


Link? Searched and didn't see it on twitter.
   831. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:14 PM (#5640696)
Offensively, Crowder looks like he has been awful with the Jazz.
   832. tshipman Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:19 PM (#5640698)
1. Players Only is terrible.
2. This OKC/BOS game is almost as bad as the announcers.
   833. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:32 PM (#5640705)
Pretty sure Joe Ingles got called for a foul because Prince hit his nose with his own arm. I'm not sure what the point of replay is if the refs can look at it to determine if Ingles deserved a flagrant only to see there was no foul at all but are incapable of reversing the call.
   834. tshipman Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:36 PM (#5640709)
Ok, the OKC/BOS game got better at the end, but everyone still played like crap.

The announcers were extra garbage.
   835. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:52 PM (#5640714)
Sure. I think it's going to be Embiid, though.

i'd go with gobert. i haven't thought embiid deserves it this year because he hasn't been as good as he was last year, but i don't see many other compelling options. gobert and anthony davis are good ones, but beyond them? meh.

this seems like a good year to give it to someone like marcus smart, ben simmons, james johnson, paul george, joe jingles, ariza or LRMAM.
   836. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:32 PM (#5640727)
Jazz lost both games against the Hawks. Rubio got torched by Schroder all night, and there's a good chance this game is the difference between playing a competitive first round/possibly making it to the second and getting swept by either the Rockets or Warriors.

Mitchell also needs to stop thinking that off the bounce above the break threes are ever a good shot for him before like 6 seconds left on the clock.
   837. Booey Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:42 PM (#5640730)
That one hurts. Bad loss at a bad time.

A win and the Jazz would've been back in 5th. The loss drops them to 8th.
   838. stevegamer Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:07 AM (#5640736)
#818 made me smile, because we heard all about MCW that first year in Philly. I'm a 76ers fan, but the incredible over-the-top stuff just amazes me from people.

The Western playoff race is absolutely bonkers, and it's fun. Glad a team I'm rooting for isn't in it, though. Might pull out some hair, and I have almost none left.
   839. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 21, 2018 at 01:36 AM (#5640741)
On Jan. 20, they hired Don Vaden, the former Director of Officials for the NBA and later the WNBA, as a consultant. Over the past couple of weeks, he’s been educating players on how to communicate better with referees and how to better ensure that the whistle goes their way, on both ends of the floor.

“In Minnesota, specifically, CJ definitely got fouled on a three,” Meyers Leonard said. “We had a couple instances in Minnesota where a guy could have fallen on a three-point attempt but didn’t, similar to what [Timberwolves guard] Jamal Crawford does.

“[Don] says, ‘you gotta fall. Let them know you got hit.’”
And then there’s Evan Turner, Portland’s skeptic.

“Don has definitely helped tremendously, but me personally, I just go out and do my best and try and guard,” he said. “[But] some dudes, you can’t touch certain dudes, no matter what. I’ll get hit the exact same way I hit somebody. They get a foul, I don’t.

“If I’m guarding whoever, they gonna get their nine foul shots and #### regardless."
@DamianTrillard
On Jan. 20, the Blazers hired a referee consultant. Prior to that, their free throw rate was 0.237 and their opponent free throw rate was 0.262. Since then, those figures have flipped the other way. I talked to players about early effects/takeaways here:
link
   840. SteveF Posted: March 21, 2018 at 07:59 AM (#5640760)
#818 made me smile, because we heard all about MCW that first year in Philly. I'm a 76ers fan, but the incredible over-the-top stuff just amazes me from people.

Just to be clear, I don't really think Simmons is in any way comparable to MCW. Simmons is already a better player than I thought MCW could ever be.
   841. puck Posted: March 21, 2018 at 10:08 AM (#5640805)
“In Minnesota, specifically, CJ definitely got fouled on a three,” Meyers Leonard said. “We had a couple instances in Minnesota where a guy could have fallen on a three-point attempt but didn’t, similar to what [Timberwolves guard] Jamal Crawford does.

“[Don] says, ‘you gotta fall. Let them know you got hit.’”


Reminds me of this ad.
   842. jmurph Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:26 PM (#5640927)
So glad I turned off the Celtics game with like 40 seconds left. I mean I got like 2 extra minutes of sleep, it was definitely worth it.
   843. aberg Posted: March 21, 2018 at 04:33 PM (#5641157)
ROY debate topic: compare the defensive contributions of Simmons and Mitchell. To my eye, Mitchell has been better, but Simmons is solid, too. Not sure what the advanced numbers say.
   844. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 21, 2018 at 04:55 PM (#5641169)
ROY debate topic: compare the defensive contributions of Simmons and Mitchell. To my eye, Mitchell has been better, but Simmons is solid, too. Not sure what the advanced numbers say.

simmons defends 1 through 5; mitchell doesn't.

DRB%: 18 v 10
STL%: 2.4 v 2.2
BLK%: 2.2 v 1.0
fouls per 36: 2.8 v 3.0
Drating (on court): 106.1 v 103.5
Drating (on-off): -1.2 v -1.8
DBPM: 3.1 v -0.1

   845. jmurph Posted: March 21, 2018 at 05:10 PM (#5641175)
I think the reasonable case for Mitchell is on offense- he's carrying the scoring load on a team that has overcome the loss of its best offensive player to (almost certainly) make the playoffs.

But yeah Simmons clearly has better numbers overall, and I imagine will win pretty comfortably.
   846. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 21, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5641184)
I think Simmons will win and deserves to win, but the thing I keep struggling with whether to dock him at all for essentially redshirting a year, and if so how much. It's not his fault, per se, but it did give him a chance to get up to speed with the NBA game, condition like a pro, and not have his time wasted with any NCAA nonsense, while Mitchell et al. had to hit the ground running. I guess I'd treat that like a tiebreaker, and I don't quite see it as a tie, but I find myself vacillating on it.

   847. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 21, 2018 at 05:25 PM (#5641187)
Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach 36m36 minutes ago

NBA’s Last 2 Minute Report from last night says Marcus Morris should have been called for a 5-second violation before final inbounds pass, and that he traveled before hitting his game-winning 3. Also, enhanced video showed Terry Rozier traveled twice. No missed violations on OKC.


That's one of the more interesting reports I've seen. For one that appears to favor one team so much over the other, I haven't seen a lot of complaining from OKC.
   848. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 21, 2018 at 05:29 PM (#5641193)
I think Simmons will win and deserves to win, but the thing I keep struggling with whether to dock him at all for essentially redshirting a year, and if so how much. It's not his fault, per se, but it did give him a chance to get up to speed with the NBA game, condition like a pro, and not have his time wasted with any NCAA nonsense, while Mitchell et al. had to hit the ground running. I guess I'd treat that like a tiebreaker, and I don't quite see it as a tie, but I find myself vacillating on it.
ben simmons is 49 days older than donovan mitchell.
7141. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: June 23, 2017 at 03:29 PM (#5481843)
i think there's a good chance that simmons comes out of the gates with a 20 PER. he's has a great skillset/physical profile, he's had a year to adjust to the NBA lifestyle and focus on the mental/preparation aspect of the sport and he'll be 21 years old. would anyone be able to tell if his jumpshot is rusty?

fultz has a much bigger adjustment (he's younger, less physically talented, coming straight out of college, played on a losing team, has to adjust to the NBA 3P line), but simmons and embiid should hit the ground running.
7192. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: June 25, 2017 at 02:03 PM (#5482413)
YMMV, but i think simmons' rookie year will look a lot like blake griffin's. simmons should have fewer rebounds and points, but more assists. 55 TS%, 20 PER, +2 BPM, 25% usage.
7193. don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all Posted: June 25, 2017 at 02:26 PM (#5482416)
there are 5 big questions for the sixers this year:
1: can embiid stay healthy and continue to improve?
2: can simmons play at a top 25 level?
3: can saric recapture his euroleague efficiency?
4: can fultz surpass the lin/teague/beverley tier of PGs?
5: can any of okafor/holmes/luwawu/mcconnell/korkmaz/anderson/stauskas take a step forward?


if 1 of those questions is answered positively, the sixers will be in playoff contention.
2: they should make the playoffs comfortably.
3: ECF contender
4 or 5: cleveland will have immediate problems.
   849. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 21, 2018 at 06:00 PM (#5641219)
ben simmons is 49 days older than donovan mitchell.

Sure, which is why age isn't one of the points I brought up.
   850. smileyy Posted: March 21, 2018 at 06:31 PM (#5641237)
cleveland will have immediate problems


well that turned out to be true
   851. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 21, 2018 at 06:59 PM (#5641242)
well that turned out to be true

shoulda kept kyrie.

BTW, 8 months after forcing his way out of cleveland by threatening to have surgery on his knee, kyrie will apparently need to have surgery on his knee.
Sure, which is why age isn't one of the points I brought up.
it mitigates alot of the difference, imo.

personally, i think redshiting has helped the sixers, but it's also important to remember that simmons, noel, embiid, fultz, missed entire years of development along the way.
   852. PJ Martinez Posted: March 21, 2018 at 07:07 PM (#5641246)
ESPN polled a "panel of experts" (they don't say how many) on where LeBron will play next season (among other James-related matters), and these were the results (the percentages were weighed in some unspecified fashion to account for first, second, and third-place votes):

1. CLE 36.5
2. LAL 22.1
3. HOU 21.7
4. PHI 12.3
5. SAS 2.5
6. MIA 2.0
7. GSW 1.6
8. TOR 0.8
9. LAC 0.4
   853. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 21, 2018 at 07:24 PM (#5641250)
I think Simmons will win and deserves to win, but the thing I keep struggling with whether to dock him at all for essentially redshirting a year, and if so how much.


I'm a Jazz fan and I don't think it matters at all, at least for the ROY. A month or two ago I thought Donovan had a legit case for ROY, but he's slumped a bit and Simmons has gone nuts again.

Also, watching Dante Exum, I don't think hanging out with an NBA team while injured necessarily does anything for young players' development.
   854. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 08:09 PM (#5641262)
Most shocking thing about that ESPN LeBron piece is that 10% of ESPN "experts" think LeBron isn't a Top 5 all time player. I can't think of a way one would do a ranking that would give you 5 guys better than LeBron.
   855. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 21, 2018 at 08:12 PM (#5641265)
The Cavs are so horrible on defense.
   856. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 21, 2018 at 08:19 PM (#5641269)
That second quarter of TOR @ CLE was brutal. Toronto's bench is playing better than Cleveland's starters.
   857. tshipman Posted: March 21, 2018 at 08:22 PM (#5641270)
Most shocking thing about that ESPN LeBron piece is that 10% of ESPN "experts" think LeBron isn't a Top 5 all time player. I can't think of a way one would do a ranking that would give you 5 guys better than LeBron.


Let me be clear that I don't agree with anyone who doesn't have LeBron top 5.

Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Wilt, Bird, Magic

If you take 5 of those 6 ahead of LeBron, for some dumb reason, you can get there.
   858. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 21, 2018 at 08:26 PM (#5641271)
That second quarter of TOR @ CLE was brutal. Toronto's bench is playing better than Cleveland's starters.

I just simply don't think that, as good as LBJ is, he can carry this team to the finals.
   859. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 21, 2018 at 08:30 PM (#5641273)
ESPN polled a "panel of experts" (they don't say how many) on where LeBron will play next season (among other James-related matters), and these were the results (the percentages were weighed in some unspecified fashion to account for first, second, and third-place votes):

1. CLE 36.5
2. LAL 22.1
3. HOU 21.7
4. PHI 12.3
5. SAS 2.5
6. MIA 2.0
7. GSW 1.6
8. TOR 0.8
9. LAC 0.4
SAS, PHI, LAC, DAL too low.
LAL too high.
   860. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 21, 2018 at 08:36 PM (#5641274)
I just simply don't think that, as good as LBJ is, he can carry this team to the finals.

To be honest, I don't think so either.

That said, this team is still missing Rodney Hood, Tristan Thompson, and Larry Nance. I believe that Hill and Hood are considered averagish defenders and Nance is regarded as a good defender.

You hope that LeBron can play significantly better defense, and that Tristan can be a good defender as well.

Offense has not been the problem for the Cavs.
   861. JC in DC Posted: March 21, 2018 at 08:36 PM (#5641275)
Hey, I get it, we're in the Lebron moment so we're all swayed, but there are defensible reasons for going, say, KAJ, MJ, Russell, Wilt, LBJ.
   862. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 21, 2018 at 08:41 PM (#5641276)
Hey, I get it, we're in the Lebron moment so we're all swayed, but there are defensible reasons for going, say, KAJ, MJ, Russell, Wilt, LBJ.

But who's #5 that you slot in above Lebron? Magic? Bird?
   863. JC in DC Posted: March 21, 2018 at 08:42 PM (#5641277)
Presumably someone put Magic in. Bird seems less defensible.
   864. JC in DC Posted: March 21, 2018 at 08:45 PM (#5641280)
In their eternal wisdom to #### NYK fans over, the current administration is playing FN off the bench. So, tonight, he came into the game with Troy Williams, Isaiah Hicks, Kyle O'Quinn, and initially Courtney Lee. I mean, if you want to #### a guy over and his development, don't play him with the only two pros on the team (Hardaway Jr and Kanter) and the only scorer (Beasley, who's such an incredible f-up). They are going to crush this kid and he's got ability.
   865. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 21, 2018 at 09:30 PM (#5641303)
I just simply don't think that, as good as LBJ is, he can carry this team to the finals.
Just like with this game, I think it's too early to count Lebron out.
   866. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 21, 2018 at 09:33 PM (#5641306)
Just like with this game, I think it's too early to count Lebron out.

He is a ####### magician.
   867. tshipman Posted: March 21, 2018 at 09:33 PM (#5641307)
Hey, I get it, we're in the Lebron moment so we're all swayed, but there are defensible reasons for going, say, KAJ, MJ, Russell, Wilt, LBJ.


The problem is that the arguments for Wilt and Russell are opposite.

If you say Russell over LeBron, it's a rings argument, but you can't make that argument for Wilt.
   868. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 21, 2018 at 09:38 PM (#5641310)
He is a ####### magician.

I didn't watch the whole game, only the last five minutes, but it did look like the Cavs were at least trying more on defense than they typically have this year. Anyone watch the whole game?

Love hit the big shot to win the game, on a pass to LeBron. LBJ with 35 points, 17 assists, no turnovers, 7 boards.
   869. JC in DC Posted: March 21, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5641311)
I'm not the person to make that argument. Were he here, Kevin might. But I think you could make a "dominance" argument: Russell dominated the sport. He won rings because he dominated. His domination was primarily defensive, but there were other aspects to his game. Likewise, Wilt dominated. And so on.
   870. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 21, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5641312)
That said, this team is still missing Rodney Hood, Tristan Thompson, and Larry Nance. I believe that Hill and Hood are considered averagish defenders and Nance is regarded as a good defender.


Hood is well below average. Hill I think was averageish last year, but not sure if age and injuries have caught up to him.
   871. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 09:45 PM (#5641315)
I didn't watch the whole game, only the last five minutes, but it did look like the Cavs were at least trying more on defense than they typically have this year. Anyone watch the whole game?

Watched the whole game. They are trying more (harder closeouts and more step in and take the charge moments), but still a ton of easy buckets for the Raptors (a lot of them on miscommunication so perhaps that will get better in the next 10 games). Ultimately, I think CLE's offense will be a fine and as long as they get the right matchups for their defense they should make the Finals. The worst matchups for their defense are probably WAS and TOR.
   872. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 21, 2018 at 09:47 PM (#5641320)
I didn't watch the whole game, only the last five minutes, but it did look like the Cavs were at least trying more on defense than they typically have this year. Anyone watch the whole game?
The Cavs were bailed out in the 3rd by Hill and Calderon suddenly playing out of their minds. Swapping Calderon for Clarkson was a big defensive boost as well, and Cleveland just did a really good job forcing DeRozan into tough attempts.

I'm with the group in that I have a hard time seeing Cleveland make the Finals, but when Hood and Nance and Thompson are all back and healthy, it's not hard to see Lebron leading the Cavs on another deep playoff run.
   873. tshipman Posted: March 21, 2018 at 09:47 PM (#5641321)
Guys, the Cavs won because they shot 62% on 3pers.

Let's not give credit to the defense here ...
   874. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 21, 2018 at 09:53 PM (#5641323)
Swapping Calderon for Clarkson was a big defensive boost as well, and Cleveland just did a really good job forcing DeRozan into tough attempts.

That's not a good look for Clarkson, if an ancient Calderon is an upgrade on defense.

Let's not give credit to the defense here ...

They gave up 129 points. Of course it wasn't because of the defense.
   875. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 10:06 PM (#5641325)
The Backpicks guy has seven slots left, and has already had Wilt, Magic and Bird. So it is conceivable he has Lebron #6 or 7 and none of those three above him (though I expect LeBron to be no lower than #3).
   876. tshipman Posted: March 21, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5641327)
I'm not the person to make that argument. Were he here, Kevin might. But I think you could make a "dominance" argument: Russell dominated the sport. He won rings because he dominated. His domination was primarily defensive, but there were other aspects to his game. Likewise, Wilt dominated. And so on.


I mean, sure, but how has LeBron not dominated his era?
   877. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 21, 2018 at 10:11 PM (#5641329)
I'm not the person to make that argument. Were he here, Kevin might. But I think you could make a "dominance" argument: Russell dominated the sport. He won rings because he dominated. His domination was primarily defensive, but there were other aspects to his game. Likewise, Wilt dominated. And so on.


Russell's teammates alone were worth approximately 11 more wins than Chamberlain's per regular season... And in the playoffs since 1957, teams with 10-12 more regular-season wins than their opponent won 71 of 85 series (83.5%). So should it have been any surprise that Russell and the C's were coming out ahead of Chamberlain's Warriors & Sixers?

Bill Simmons disagrees

link
   878. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: March 21, 2018 at 10:12 PM (#5641331)
magic number: 3
   879. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 21, 2018 at 10:12 PM (#5641332)
Do the Spurs just play music during gameplay? It's weird and annoying.
   880. PJ Martinez Posted: March 21, 2018 at 10:13 PM (#5641333)
Re: TOR/CLE, probably worth noting that the Raptors were on the second night of a road back-to-back.
   881. nick swisher hygiene Posted: March 21, 2018 at 10:25 PM (#5641337)
875--Right, he has Wilt #9 and KG #8. Assuming Hakeem, Timmy, and Shaq in some order for #7-#5, he gets to what seems like the consensus top 4 of Kareem, Russell, MJ and LeBron.

Considering the case for putting Wilt much higher (it's not clear to me that Backpicks guy cares enough about separating "makes teammates better" from "raw quality of teammates"), I guess I'd say #5 seems like about the lowest plausible spot for LeBron right now.
   882. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 21, 2018 at 10:30 PM (#5641338)
Guys, the Cavs won because they shot 62% on 3pers.

Let's not give credit to the defense here ...


I came here to ask tship if Cavs fans were allowed to be happy about this win, and I'm glad to see he's already answered that in the negative.
   883. tshipman Posted: March 21, 2018 at 10:48 PM (#5641345)
875--Right, he has Wilt #9 and KG #8. Assuming Hakeem, Timmy, and Shaq in some order for #7-#5, he gets to what seems like the consensus top 4 of Kareem, Russell, MJ and LeBron.


It's not at all clear to me that Russell should be ahead of any of those three.
   884. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:01 PM (#5641352)
Re: TOR/CLE, probably worth noting that the Raptors were on the second night of a road back-to-back.

That's certainly very important and provides some context as to why the Raptors may have ran out of gas.

Dwight Howard put up 32 points and 30 rebounds tonight. Wow.
   885. tshipman Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:06 PM (#5641354)
I came here to ask tship if Cavs fans were allowed to be happy about this win, and I'm glad to see he's already answered that in the negative.


Are we talking basketball or talking about other posters here?
   886. JC in DC Posted: March 22, 2018 at 08:54 AM (#5641407)
The NBA released a statement that Morris's gamewinner shouldn't have counted the other night because of (1) a 5 second violation on the inbounds pass, and (2) a travel by Morris on his shot-fake and move. What on earth is the point of this kind of statement? Just to generate news and get the NBA in the paper? To set the historical record straight? To give the appearance of good processes and the search for officiating perfection? His travel was a travel, but good lord, I rarely see that called, and routinely see worse travels that have become parts of the game. The 5 second violation? When was the last time Boston was called for one of those in the Garden? Something about the whole "Official NBA Press Release: Game should've ended differently, but didn't, and we can't fix it" seems kinda strange to me.
   887. jmurph Posted: March 22, 2018 at 09:25 AM (#5641415)
Just like with this game, I think it's too early to count Lebron out.

He had one of the best games anyone has had all season and they won by 3, at home, clinched by a last-second 3, on a night that they shot 60% from the floor and 62.5% from three. It was an impressive win and great comeback, but I don't know how this does anything but cement the idea that LeBron is going to have to basically be perfect for a month and a half to get to the Finals again. Or...

In reality, I think the most likely scenario for Cleveland getting to the Finals is that Toronto will crap the bed again, Boston is ravaged by injuries, and everyone else is mediocre to bad. I think that path is much more likely than the one in which Cleveland is all of a sudden a great team.

   888. jmurph Posted: March 22, 2018 at 09:26 AM (#5641416)
SAS, PHI, LAC, DAL too low.

(that's re: LeBron's future)

A big LOL to Dallas.
   889. jmurph Posted: March 22, 2018 at 09:33 AM (#5641418)
Even though it's largely a combination of bad defense and teams tanking, I love some of these scorelines we're seeing every night. 132-129, 135, 127-120, two separate 119s, all last night, all in regulation.
   890. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 22, 2018 at 10:20 AM (#5641452)
[889] Tom Thibodeau must be rolling over in his coffin (the one he sleeps in during the day).
   891. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 22, 2018 at 10:27 AM (#5641460)
[889] Tom Thibodeau must be rolling over in his coffin (the one he sleeps in during the day).

At least his team is protecting his sterling reputation with their lockdown defence.
   892. jmurph Posted: March 22, 2018 at 10:28 AM (#5641462)
Hey the Wolves aren't exactly the early 2000s Pistons either. Their last 4 points totals: 116, 101, 120, 123.

   893. Booey Posted: March 22, 2018 at 10:56 AM (#5641485)
The NBA released a statement that Morris's gamewinner shouldn't have counted the other night because of (1) a 5 second violation on the inbounds pass, and (2) a travel by Morris on his shot-fake and move. What on earth is the point of this kind of statement?


Obviously they can't change the incorrect calls after the fact, but I still like the NBA's last 2 minutes report because:

A) highlighting officiating mistakes puts pressure on them to get it right,

and

B) I think it helps fans understand the actual rules and why certain calls were made or not made. There's been several instances where a call looked wrong to me at the time, but after reading their explanation it made sense.
   894. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 22, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5641500)
He had one of the best games anyone has had all season and they won by 3, at home, clinched by a last-second 3, on a night that they shot 60% from the floor and 62.5% from three. It was an impressive win and great comeback, but I don't know how this does anything but cement the idea that LeBron is going to have to basically be perfect for a month and a half to get to the Finals again. Or...

In reality, I think the most likely scenario for Cleveland getting to the Finals is that Toronto will crap the bed again, Boston is ravaged by injuries, and everyone else is mediocre to bad. I think that path is much more likely than the one in which Cleveland is all of a sudden a great team.


In addition, the Raptors were playing the second game of a back to back (although DeRozan didn't play and only Kyle Lowry played more than 30 min in the first game against the Magic).

The Cavs have an excellent offense and a terrible defense. How much of their problems on defense is poor effort and a lack of attention to detail is not completely clear but a big problem is they also have some pretty bad defenders on the team as well.
   895. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 22, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5641528)
   896. JC in DC Posted: March 22, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5641542)
[895] That is fantastic.
   897. jmurph Posted: March 22, 2018 at 12:13 PM (#5641581)
Hey Moses, what's the verdict on LaVine's short stint this year (apparently his season might be over)? It's probably hard to evaluate him given the surrounding cast and the fact that he was coming back from the ACL injury, but did you see anything you liked?
   898. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: March 22, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5641628)
In reality, I think the most likely scenario for Cleveland getting to the Finals is that Toronto will crap the bed again, Boston is ravaged by injuries, and everyone else is mediocre to bad. I think that path is much more likely than the one in which Cleveland is all of a sudden a great team.

I realize they're a young team, but I feel strongly that PHI is being overlooked as a Finals contender.
   899. jmurph Posted: March 22, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5641645)
Oh man I cannot see Philly beating a good team 4 times out of 7. But I guess their path would be to get to the 3 seed, beat the winner of an injury-raddled Boston/Miami in the 2nd round, and then beat the survivor of Toronto and Cleveland in the ECF? That's a lot of unlikely things, I think.
   900. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: March 22, 2018 at 01:10 PM (#5641661)
Flip.
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