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Friday, February 15, 2019

OT - 2018-19 NBA thread (All-Star Weekend to Twelfth of Never edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  Kyler Murray and how the Galactic Empire did nothing wrong.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: February 15, 2019 at 12:14 PM | 1586 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, off-topic

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   601. JJ1986 Posted: March 13, 2019 at 01:36 PM (#5822461)
I think I'd probably take LeBron in the playoffs, but we won't get to see whether he can turn it on. I still think Curry is criminally underrated in these discussions and I'd pick him for this year.
   602. Master of the Horse Posted: March 13, 2019 at 01:38 PM (#5822462)
599: Totally get the sustained success aspect. Completely reasonable
   603. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: March 13, 2019 at 01:42 PM (#5822464)
595: Lebron? Really? I see an old guy coasting on defense who racks up numbers because of how the game is played and still having offensive skills. If LeBron makes an all NBA team that's a complete joke.

Listened to Simmons make a similar point on his pod earlier today. FWIW, by RPM, LBJ is 4th among SF/PF on a per game basis and 5th cumulatively (this counts Davis as a PF).

EDIT: Not to say RPM is the be all end all, but I like to use it as a starting point for these types of discussions.

   604. Master of the Horse Posted: March 13, 2019 at 01:49 PM (#5822467)
603--Well now my stance is completely undermined if Simmons agrees! I certainly review the same but being on the court has to matter as a base standard unless a guy has just blown up in limited time. And even then I give weight to guys being out there versus not. Others may have different thoughts obviously
   605. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: March 13, 2019 at 01:50 PM (#5822468)
I always find it curious that people bring up Steph Curry's racial identity but not Klay Thompson's when to me Klay's is more mysterious. Steph is black. I'm not sure what Klay's family history is or how he identifies.
   606. JC in DC Posted: March 13, 2019 at 01:51 PM (#5822472)
All I meant was that I'm not sure he's the peak-LBJ type who can carry a team of mediocrity on his back to the playoffs, but that he may get there. Yes, very high standard and all, but that was relevant to the point of my post: he's got room for improvement and if he does, Milwaukee may get even better despite losing some quality guys.
   607. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: March 13, 2019 at 01:52 PM (#5822473)
Also, Dolan has really lost his mind. He's now accusing Bill Simmons of conspiring with an NBA GM--Danny Ainge, I'm guessing--to torpedo the Knicks. He also says the fan he kicked out of MSG was in on an elaborate plot to undermine him. Please, KD, go to the Nets instead.
   608. Master of the Horse Posted: March 13, 2019 at 01:57 PM (#5822475)
who can carry a team of mediocrity on his back to the playoffs,

Didn't Giannis do that the two previous years? Bucks finished sixth in 2016 with Jason Kidd as coach with Tony Snell and Dellavedova getting lots of minutes. And then again last season almost upsetting the Celtics in round 1. Both those seasons there were bad head coaches and limited rosters after the top guys. Or is it winning playoff series? Again, just asking. No need to respond if you don't want to.
   609. aberg Posted: March 13, 2019 at 01:58 PM (#5822476)
I always find it curious that people bring up Steph Curry's racial identity but not Klay Thompson's when to me Klay's is more mysterious. Steph is black. I'm not sure what Klay's family history is or how he identifies.


I made a dumb joke about someone mentioning Brook Lopez. Never should've brought it up. My bad.

RE: Lebron. His play in the postseason last year made me still think he was the best player in the world at that point, and his regular season last year looked a lot like the regular season this year on defense.
   610. jmurph Posted: March 13, 2019 at 01:58 PM (#5822477)
I'd also take Curry first. And agree that he's underrated in these types of discussions (though not here, I think a lot of us here frequently had him top 2 or 3 in years past).
   611. jmurph Posted: March 13, 2019 at 02:01 PM (#5822479)
Didn't Giannis do that the two previous years? Bucks finished sixth in 2016 with Jason Kidd as coach with Tony Snell and Dellavedova getting lots of minutes. And then again last season almost upsetting the Celtics in round 1. Both those seasons there were bad head coaches and limited rosters after the top guys. Or is it winning playoff series? Again, just asking. No need to respond if you don't want to.

Seems to me there's a pretty clear and obvious distinction between almost pulling off a round 1 upset and routinely taking unimpressive teams to the Finals.
   612. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 13, 2019 at 02:02 PM (#5822481)
Kirk Goldsberry @kirkgoldsberry 11m11 minutes ago

Since 1984, only 6 rookies have scored over 20 ppg and had a TS% above 55:
Jordan
Hakeem
Robinson
Shaq
Zo
Timmy
Luka is on pace to be the 7th.
   613. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 13, 2019 at 02:03 PM (#5822482)
All I meant was that I'm not sure he's the peak-LBJ type who can carry a team of mediocrity on his back to the playoffs, but that he may get there. Yes, very high standard and all

I agree with the point of your post - and this followup - but yeah, in conversation for GOAT is a helluva high standard.
   614. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: March 13, 2019 at 02:06 PM (#5822484)
[612] I really wish some version of TS%+ or other era-adjusted efficiency stats would become readily available.
   615. jmurph Posted: March 13, 2019 at 02:08 PM (#5822486)
Also, Dolan has really lost his mind. He's now accusing Bill Simmons of conspiring with an NBA GM--Danny Ainge, I'm guessing--to torpedo the Knicks.

Ooh that's funny, but I think that Dolan comment must have referred to Morey? Unless Dolan has really lost it.
   616. Master of the Horse Posted: March 13, 2019 at 02:10 PM (#5822487)
611--the poster didn't make that distinction but I suspect that was implied which is why I wrote what I did. The post said get team to the playoffs. Not get to the Finals. Not trying to be difficult. Can only go on what I see posted.
   617. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 13, 2019 at 02:11 PM (#5822488)
[614] Agreed. Based on the graphic he also posted, it appears a point in Luka's favor is that he's the youngest of those guys.

Either way, he was terrible last night.
   618. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: March 13, 2019 at 02:11 PM (#5822489)
Ooh that's funny, but I think that Dolan comment must have referred to Morey? Unless Dolan has really lost it.

I thought Morey, too, but the Celtics makes more sense, I think--Simmons is a Celtics fan, Kyrie is rumored to go to the Knicks, Atlantic Division rivals...I think Dolan would be more paranoid about Ainge than Morey.
   619. JC in DC Posted: March 13, 2019 at 02:13 PM (#5822490)
Yes, Moses. Indeed.

Yes, MotH: deep into the playoffs; nay, even to the Finals, says I!
   620. spivey Posted: March 13, 2019 at 02:19 PM (#5822491)
I'm not sure I'd say Giannis is better than playoff LeBron or Curry, but I don't think he's worse. I think he's reached that 1/1a level. He may not be as good offensively, but he's significantly better defensively.
   621. Master of the Horse Posted: March 13, 2019 at 02:21 PM (#5822493)
619: That's cool. Thanks for the clarification.
   622. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: March 13, 2019 at 02:44 PM (#5822501)
Just like posting these from time-to-time:

Eastern Conference Odds (5Dimes)
Bucks +200
Raptors +245
Celtics +370
Sixers +425
Pacers +4500
Pistons +12000 (high point of the last decade I imagine)

Western Conference Odds
Golden State -330
Houston +750
Oklahoma City +1400
Denver +1400
Utah +3300
Spurs +4500
Blazers +4500
Clippers +15000

Title
Golden State -220
Bucks +900
Rockets +1100
Raptors +1300
Celtics +1600
Sixers +2500
   623. rr: drool-soaked and paralytic Posted: March 13, 2019 at 03:27 PM (#5822518)
I still think Curry is criminally underrated in these discussions and I'd pick him for this year.


Maybe away from here, but not here. Everybody always says Curry is a Top-5 player and Warriors fans occasionally come by and WOW him.
   624. rr: drool-soaked and paralytic Posted: March 13, 2019 at 03:53 PM (#5822532)
Wow, lot of LeBron respect when I think he has seriously damaged his rep. I think the young Lakers deserve a lot of credit for not calling out this guy for his I won't do it you do it defense and being the driver of trying to get everyone traded for Davis


This is the narrative in the Lakers fanbase among the huge subsection (more than half, probably) that never liked him to begin with and would rather he was not on the team. A few of the things I have said to that crowd when sticking up for James on those boards(this will be long so people who have seen enough of my Lakers posts should skip it):

1. He does coast on D, but so did Bryant in his 30s and so did Magic after about 1988. Harden coasts all the time now, and he is 29. Jordan coasted less on D than those guys in his last years in CHI, but he still took plays off, too. No superstar busts ass every play on D in the regular season IMO, especially after age 30. And James still grades out OK on some of the defensive metrics.

Those points made, I think Ball is/was the best defensive player on the team, and the team-based metrics reflect that. As I said before, James absolutely needs to take some responsibility for the team playing so poorly since he has been back, but I think that is more of a roster construction/health issue.

2. As to the team motivation/chemistry getting t-boned by the Davis trade rumorama, the numbers show that it is the veterans, especially Rondo, who have cratered since that happened more than the young guys. Ingram was playing the best ball of his career
until the DVT diagnosis. The biggest problem with the young guys has been staying on the floor. Ingram, Ball, and Kuzma are all out and Hart is probably going to have knee surgery after the season.

One of the big Lakers websites is run by three wiseass young guys who weirdly defended Jim Buss a lot and can't stand Magic Johnson, so they clown the Magic/Pelinka FO every day, and trashed them, pretty viciously, for supposedly getting played by Dell Demps. But I have never been 100% clear on what the alternative was, unless it was

a) Saying in public that they would prefer having the young guys to having Davis (a lot of the fanbase would agree, but as I have said there is a massive delta between how the young guys are seen inside and outside the fanbase).
b) Shutting down talks after the leaks.

3. James has been blamed for the Davis thing and is often called "passive-aggressive" and "toxic" by people inside the fanbase who don't like him. The first may be true, but James actually goes out of his way to say nice stuff about the young guys in public. As to the second, the 2004-5 Lakers, another team in transition with a raggedy roster, quit on Rudy Tomjanovich and Frank Hamblen, and Kobe Bryant was called toxic and much worse from 2004-2008, and ofc was known for going off on the FO for not trading Andrew Bynum for Jason Kidd. Then Phil came back, Bynum developed, Kupchak got Pau without trading Odom or Bynum, and then picked up Ariza cheap and bam: Kobe went from being The Joker to being The Dark Knight. But he was basically the same guy the whole time, IMO, as his surreal retirement tour and his going off for 60 in his last game showed.

So...IMO James is pretty much the same guy who gave Cleveland its only championship parade since another LBJ was POTUS,
and I think it is obvious that he learned about optics from LeDecision. He is not the best player in the league night-in-night-out anymore--Antetokoumnpo is IMO--but James is still in the Top 5, and if things break for the Lakers, as they did for the 2008-11 Lakers, then James will again be James, because he never stopped being James.
   625. Master of the Horse Posted: March 13, 2019 at 04:09 PM (#5822537)
624

Thanks for the input

1. Kind of irrelevant. Why should I care what other players have done or other teams may have condoned from veteran players? Or if the point that this is accepted behavior still sucks for the other guys on the team. That's my view anyway

2. I just empathize with the younger players position.

3. While I am in the forecasting analytics business (partially) all I can say with certainty about any pro athlete is that age will eventually erode the skillset. Not an amazing insight, I know. Though by inspection the down slope for great players is gentler. But it happens. The Lakers window with James is limited because that is how things work with an older player.
   626. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: March 13, 2019 at 04:13 PM (#5822539)
I always find it curious that people bring up Steph Curry's racial identity but not Klay Thompson's when to me Klay's is more mysterious. Steph is black. I'm not sure what Klay's family history is or how he identifies.

What's mysterious? Here's Klay and his mother. His father is 13-year NBA veteran Mychal Thompson.

I assumed Steph's mother was white too, because he's so light skinned. Apparently not.

And what people are "bringing up Steph Curry's racial identity but not Klay Thompson's" in a curious way? It doesn't seem worth talking about for more than a second.
   627. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: March 13, 2019 at 04:15 PM (#5822542)
Agreed that LeBron "damaged his rep" already in Cleveland, in his capacity as GM insisting that they give all these veterans giant contracts and avoid rookies at all costs, while not committing more than a year of his own time to allow any sort of plan to coalesce, and then last season going a step farther by attempting to lose every game until they brought in more veterans, leading to George Hill and Rodney Hood. With the Lakers he has only damaged his rep for never getting injured.
   628. John M. Perkins Posted: March 13, 2019 at 04:16 PM (#5822543)
I'm a single stat CDSN (2012 Trout over Cabrera).
I prefer ESPN Real Plus Minus Wins.

MVP
1 Paul George
2 James Harden
3 Kevin Durant
4 Jrue Holiday
5 Giannis Antetokounmpo

12 Stephen Curry
13 LeBron James

First Team
PG James Harden
SG Jimmy Butler
SF Paul George
PF Giannis Antekounmpo
C Nikola Jokic
   629. rr: drool-soaked and paralytic Posted: March 13, 2019 at 04:20 PM (#5822544)
1. Kind of irrelevant. Why should I care what other players have done or other teams may have condoned from veteran players? Or if the point that this is accepted behavior still sucks for the other guys on the team. That's my view anyway


It sucks when you lose, like everything else. If the Lakers had met expectations this year (lower playoff seed) no one would be saying much about it. No one was saying much about it when they were 20-14. He has always had "chill mode" games (his own term) pretty much since he turned 30. The other side of it is that it saves needed energy for post-season and to carry the O.

The Lakers window with James is limited because that is how things work with an older player.


Obviously. But the questions are:
1. Would they have been better off committing big money to a Russell/Randle 1990s "LakeShow" style team instead of taking a short-term shot based on James' greatness and connections to other stars?
2. Will James' presence help them sign other stars when he is done, help with branding/organizational gravitas, etc?

1 is "We don't know yet and we will know a lot more by about July 10." 2 seems kind of unlikely but James is a unique figure in the game's history, so who knows for sure.
   630. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 13, 2019 at 04:56 PM (#5822558)
Haven't read yet, but will.
   631. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 13, 2019 at 07:19 PM (#5822604)
I am not at all sure who the best player in the league is right now. I think that's great! The next few years in the Association are shaping up to be very very interesting IMO (especially if Durant leaves GS).

The Bucks will be a contender as long as they have Giannis and don't do dumb ####. Sorry if this is beating a dead horse, but my favorite way to think about this is to be a contender in a salary cap league you need to punch above it somehow.This can be done in a few ways -- guys on rookie contracts, coaching/system, shrewd signings, going into the tax. But the most common is to have a guy worth well more than the max salary. This is harder now with the supermax existing, but still, how much would Giannis get on the open market, $55M/year at least, right? That essentially gives the Bucks a $30M head start for each of the next couple years.
   632. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 13, 2019 at 07:30 PM (#5822606)
Suppose the offseason played out something like this very plausible scenario:

-- Kawhi signs with the Clippers
-- Durant and Kyrie sign with the Knicks
-- Middleton signs with the Lakers
-- Davis gets traded to Boston for Tatum + picks
-- Klay resigns with GSW, Harris with PHI, Kemba with CHA
-- Butler signs with, I don't know, let's say the Nets

In this scenario, who would be the favorite for the 2019-20 NBA title?
   633. The Mighty Quintana Posted: March 13, 2019 at 07:49 PM (#5822610)
Boston? But, I'm a Celtics fan.

Moving Tatum frees up a logjam on the perimeter. Saying bye to Kyrie ensures better ball movement. Keeping Rozier and Smart out of trade ensures that Stevens' trademark perimeter defense stays tough.

This assumes: Hayward gets to 97% of Utah player, and Jaylen Brown takes a leap forward to a Jason Richardson/Nick Anderson type of player.
   634. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 13, 2019 at 08:00 PM (#5822612)
The Nuggets.
   635. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 13, 2019 at 08:06 PM (#5822614)
I'm with Quinn that things playing out like that could play out well for the Celtics (I of course also have the same caveat), but also if the Ws resign Klay and make good depth moves (especially if they don't win the title this year and have something to prove) I think you probably have to consider them near the top of the list too.
   636. rr: drool-soaked and paralytic Posted: March 13, 2019 at 08:18 PM (#5822617)
Milwaukee: They will be relevant as long as GA is there. What we can't know is whether this will be their best shot.
2019 FA: Fun speculation post. All we know for sure is that the arcs of several franchises will be affected the first ten days of July.
   637. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: March 13, 2019 at 08:25 PM (#5822619)
The Knicks if they also end up with Zion. But I’m James Dolan so I’m drunk on entitlement and crappy watered down blues.
   638. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: March 13, 2019 at 08:53 PM (#5822626)
Suppose the offseason played out something like this very plausible scenario:

-- Kawhi signs with the Clippers
-- Durant and Kyrie sign with the Knicks
-- Middleton signs with the Lakers
-- Davis gets traded to Boston for Tatum + picks
-- Klay resigns with GSW, Harris with PHI, Kemba with CHA
-- Butler signs with, I don't know, let's say the Nets

In this scenario, who would be the favorite for the 2019-20 NBA title?
FWIW, in that scenario PHI and DAL would have around 30MM in cap space.

also, NOP is not trading davis to BOS for tatum and picks 14 + 18 + 23.


i wonder if there's a possible jimmy butler for draymond green and andre iguodala sign and trade.
   639. PJ Martinez Posted: March 13, 2019 at 08:58 PM (#5822627)
NOP is not trading davis to BOS for tatum and picks 14 + 18 + 23.
You forgot about the Memphis pick.

To Quinn's question, I think the Warriors are the favorite in that scenario. The East is probably still a fight among Philly, Boston, and Milwaukee, with Toronto presumably slipping a bit without Kawhi.
   640. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: March 13, 2019 at 09:03 PM (#5822628)
You forgot about the Memphis pick.
the #10 pick this year? or a still top 7 protected pick next year?
   641. PJ Martinez Posted: March 13, 2019 at 09:12 PM (#5822629)
It's top-8 protected this year, top-6 next year, and unprotected after that. Unless you're more optimistic about Memphis than I am, that is likely a pick in the mid-to-high single digits, with the possibility of being better than that.
   642. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: March 13, 2019 at 09:20 PM (#5822631)
It was fun being a Pistons fan for a solid 4 or 5 weeks there. Was starting to get weird. Glad things are back to normal.
   643. Moeball Posted: March 14, 2019 at 02:16 AM (#5822666)
-- Kawhi signs with the Clippers
-- Durant and Kyrie sign with the Knicks
-- Middleton signs with the Lakers
-- Davis gets traded to Boston for Tatum + picks
-- Klay resigns with GSW, Harris with PHI, Kemba with CHA
-- Butler signs with, I don't know, let's say the Nets


OK, this is going to be the summer of "K" - and I'm not talking about another record setting year for strikeouts in MLB - but Kevin (Durant), Kawhi, Kyrie, Klay, Kemba are all going to draw a lot of attention - am I missing anyone else that's obvious? And the Knicks may be the biggest beneficiary.

Here's something to think about, though, even if it's kind of krazy - Steph Kurry, as others have mentioned above, is a great facilitator. He seems to make all teammates feel welcomed and wanted, even Kousins. He distributes the ball well and when Kevin or Klay get the hot hand, he's more than happy to actively feed them all game long if its what's best for the team.

He's also the great recruiter. He was the primary driving force who went after Kevin Durant, wasn't he? If KD leaves this summer, who would Steph try to get to come to GS in KD's place? Even though $$ are going to be an issue, I wouldn't bet against Steph finding another quality name to come in, and I would think players would be looking for any way they can fit in to go there. This is something I see as a major difference from LeBron. I think most NBA stars would LOVE to find a way to get to play with Steph, and even take less $$ to do so. On the other hand, some seem quite hesitant to want to team up with LBJ.

Just a krazy thought, that's all.

On another topic...with the W's signing Bogut, who brings basically nothing offensively but was pretty good defensively last time around, does this mean as playoff time comes around that we'll see a lot less Boogie on the floor?
   644. jmurph Posted: March 14, 2019 at 09:07 AM (#5822683)
As another Celtics fan, I think a team that subs out Tatum and Kyrie for Davis is not even remotely a championship contender minus massive improvements everywhere else.
   645. spivey Posted: March 14, 2019 at 09:20 AM (#5822690)
Golden State is the favorite in that scenario. That's basically the crew that won 73 games. I'm confident in Curry's ability to re-soak up some Durant usage, or at least use his magic to get others open shots. Also pretty much every other contender gets worse in that scenario as well.

Toronto is no longer relevant in the title race in that scenario. Unlike jmurph, I think Boston is probably a contender to come out of the East just because the Knicks will have big holes, Bucks are worse without Middleton, and Philly loses one of their best players as well.
   646. jmurph Posted: March 14, 2019 at 09:23 AM (#5822692)
Golden State is the favorite in that scenario. That's basically the crew that won 73 games. I'm confident in Curry's ability to re-soak up some Durant usage, or at least use his magic to get others open shots. Also pretty much every other contender gets worse in that scenario as well.

I agree with the basic point here but I'm wondering about Draymond going forward. And then after 2019-20, do they resign him?
   647. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 14, 2019 at 09:49 AM (#5822702)
If Kawhi leaves, Toronto will probably move Lowry and Gasol, as well. They'll go full youth movement, but Ujiri has done a good job with the roster, and they'll likely still be a good playoff team. Not an ECF contender, but like a 5th seed that gives the 4th seed trouble.
   648. Booey Posted: March 14, 2019 at 10:58 AM (#5822741)
As another Celtics fan, I think a team that subs out Tatum and Kyrie for Davis is not even remotely a championship contender minus massive improvements everywhere else.


That was my thought too. I think the C's would get worse in this scenario. And honestly, if Kyrie leaves, I don't know if they'd even still be willing to make that Davis trade. Would they really gamble their future by giving up their best young player (Tatum) and all their picks for a guy who could just be a one year rental? If Davis left the following year, they'd pretty much be boned; left with an old Horford, a broken Gizzard Hagweed, and Jaylen Brown, who doesn't appear to have serious star potential. If I ran the C's, I don't think I'd trade for Davis until/unless Irving resigned.

In the above scenario, I think I'd probably have Philly as the favorites to come out of the East (I don't think losing Butler would really hurt them that badly), and still GSW in the West (not sold on Denver), although it would be much less definitive and more wide open than it has been in years.
   649. jmurph Posted: March 14, 2019 at 11:18 AM (#5822752)
And honestly, if Kyrie leaves, I don't know if they'd even still be willing to make that Davis trade. Would they really gamble their future by giving up their best young player (Tatum) and all their picks for a guy who could just be a one year rental?

The timing will be an issue as the Pelicans would presumably want to deal before the draft. The draft is before free agency begins so the Davis trade would have to happen first. Meaning they'd need a trustworthy commitment from Kyrie that he was planning to opt out and resign before pulling the trigger for Davis.

(I don't think Davis to the Celtics is going to happen, I'm just thinking through the logistics.)
   650. jmurph Posted: March 14, 2019 at 11:58 AM (#5822779)
I started listening to the latest Dunc'd On podcast on the worst contracts in the league, and I still can't believe Cleveland responded to LeBron leaving by locking themselves into two bad, long contracts for Love and Nance (less bad than Love's but still bad).
   651. spivey Posted: March 14, 2019 at 12:56 PM (#5822797)
What podcasts do people like on the NBA? I've been doing the Lowe Post for a few years, but I think I may be ready for a second, or a different change of pace.
   652. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 14, 2019 at 01:11 PM (#5822805)
I listen to Dunc’d On, although I find their analysis pretty dull. You should definitely listen to the Danny Green show.
   653. Tin Angel Posted: March 14, 2019 at 01:21 PM (#5822808)
People seem to like the JJ Redick podcast, he's always a great guest on the Lowe Post.
   654. Scott Lange Posted: March 14, 2019 at 01:25 PM (#5822811)
What podcasts do people like on the NBA?

Dunc'd On and Open Floor. The former is a bit too dry for my ideal taste, and the latter a bit too light - if they could somehow meet in the middle it'd be perfect. But they complement each other nicely.
   655. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 14, 2019 at 01:33 PM (#5822815)
We’re in a golden age for NBA offense. Teams are scoring 110.1 points per 100 possessions during the 2018-19 season, according to Basketball-Reference.com — a full 1.3 points per 100 possessions more than the previous high of 108.8, which was set two years ago.

...

In all those explanations, though, one factor has gone wildly underdiscussed: Teams just don’t turn the ball over all that much anymore. In addition to being the best overall shooting season of the 3-point era, the 2018-19 campaign also has seen teams commit turnovers at the lowest rate they ever have, as just 12.6 percent of possessions leaguewide have ended with the offense giving the ball away to the defense in one manner or another. This is down from a high of 15.8 percent during the 1982-83 season.


link
   656. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: March 14, 2019 at 02:02 PM (#5822822)
What podcasts do people like on the NBA?

I really like Redick's pod. I listen to CJ McCollum's pod, but he's fairly bland (KD incident aside). Any episode of Road Trippin with both Frye & RJ is legitimately hilarious. Tried Dunc'd On, but found it way too boring/serious. Simmons is Simmons (though I do like him working with Russillo in the sense that that's the one person willing to call him on his #### on his pod).
   657. jmurph Posted: March 14, 2019 at 02:27 PM (#5822830)
What podcasts do people like on the NBA?

Windhorst has had Pelton on a couple times recently, with Hollinger once and Arnovitz another time. Those have been good. They're under the Hoop Collective/Brian Windhorst in the apple podcast app. Shows with other guests are very inconsistent.

Howard Beck's can be good (The Full 48).
   658. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 14, 2019 at 02:35 PM (#5822835)
What podcasts do people like on the NBA?

I listen to the Lowe Post and Danny Green's, mostly. I sometimes listen to Dunc'd On, but am with others that it's a bit too dry for me. I keep trying to like the Ringer's podcast, mainly because I really like Jason Conception, but I just really dislike most of their takes, as they seem to mostly truck in media storylines and semi-informed hot takes. I've otherwise not found any NBA podcasts that are consistently what I'm looking for, which has been a bit frustrating. I guess I should try Reddick's and Beck's.
   659. Powderhorn™, arrogant local sailing champion Posted: March 14, 2019 at 04:02 PM (#5822860)
I like the Thinking Basketball podcast. Though he only puts out 1.5-2 episodes a month, so that's a side dish, not a main course.
   660. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: March 14, 2019 at 04:13 PM (#5822864)
I like the Tuesday edition of The Ringer podcast with Kevin O'Conner and Chris Vernon. It's nothing groundbreaking, but they have a good rapport, and are a good mix of a stats/salary cap guy (KOC) with a basketball IQ/chemistry guy (Vernon).

   661. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: March 14, 2019 at 05:14 PM (#5822876)
I love Jason Concepcion, but I do not want basketball analysis from him (same applies to Shea Serrano) and I cannot stand Kevin O'Connor. I really enjoyed the old version of True Hoop in terms of giving me a bit of everything (before everyone got fired/quit).

The host of the Danny Green pod is a friend from college. One of my other friends reminded me last week that Danny used to come visit us/go to parties with us in college.
   662. Tin Angel Posted: March 14, 2019 at 05:30 PM (#5822880)
The Basketball Jones used to be such a fun podcast. It's a shame what that turned into.
   663. rr: drool-soaked and paralytic Posted: March 14, 2019 at 05:41 PM (#5822883)
I would listen to a BBTF NBA Thread Podcast. Regular segments could be "Rumor!" with Der-K, Odds/Numbers Analysis from Scott Lange, "The Process Revisited" with STIGGLES, and "Anti-Lakers Bias in the Media" with me.

   664. Fourth True Outcome Posted: March 14, 2019 at 05:47 PM (#5822885)
Don't forget "It's Variance!" with tship and "Maybe I'm biased as a Cs fan but..." with a revolving cast of characters.
   665. Booey Posted: March 14, 2019 at 06:45 PM (#5822904)
Ooh! I want in on that! I'll handle "Jazz Stanning" and "Small Market Woes".
   666. tshipman Posted: March 14, 2019 at 08:37 PM (#5822914)
Don't forget "It's Variance!" with tship


This is how we appeal to the "I like Nate and Danny, but they're too dry and numbers driven sometimes" demographic.
   667. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 14, 2019 at 09:20 PM (#5822918)
I would never listen to STIGGLES' podcast sober, but honestly with a few drinks or a little weed I bet it'd be a blast. Especially the "who says no" segment every ten minutes.
   668. SteveF Posted: March 14, 2019 at 09:29 PM (#5822921)
I would never listen to STIGGLES' podcast sober, but honestly with a few drinks or a little weed I bet it'd be a blast. Especially the "who says no" segment every ten minutes.

After a while it would just end up being clips of past shows.
   669. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 14, 2019 at 10:55 PM (#5822934)
My friend Andrew wants us to start a 90s NBA/punk rock podcast. As neither of us has even the remotest idea of how to do this, or, indeed, what any human might be interested in listening to ... well, it seems pretty dumb.
   670. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: March 14, 2019 at 11:04 PM (#5822935)
I am going to cry draft lottery night. The only question is whether it will be tears of joy or sadness.
   671. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: March 14, 2019 at 11:05 PM (#5822936)
My friend Andrew wants us to start a 90s NBA/punk rock podcast. As neither of us has even the remotest idea of how to do this, or, indeed, what any human might be interested in listening to ... well, it seems pretty dumb.

Started a sports podcast with some friends a little while back and, shockingly, about 50ish people regularly listen (with a high of 100 listens).
   672. tshipman Posted: March 14, 2019 at 11:12 PM (#5822938)
I am going to cry draft lottery night. The only question is whether it will be tears of joy or sadness.


Are tears of irrelevance a type of tear?
   673. JC in DC Posted: March 15, 2019 at 07:42 AM (#5822956)
I'm expecting tears of disappointment.
   674. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: March 15, 2019 at 08:03 AM (#5822959)
Don’t forget tears of rage.
   675. jmurph Posted: March 15, 2019 at 09:07 AM (#5822970)
I am going to cry draft lottery night. The only question is whether it will be tears of joy or sadness.

I realize I'm ruining this by mentioning it, but I can't believe we haven't been treated to daily Embiid/Simmons/Zion/Butler/Harris talk from stiggles. They get the Kings pick if it's #1 overall!
   676. shout-out to 57i66135; that shit's working now Posted: March 15, 2019 at 10:08 AM (#5822982)
After a while it would just end up being clips of past shows.
the stugotz is strong in me.
I would never listen to STIGGLES' podcast sober, but honestly with a few drinks or a little weed I bet it'd be a blast. Especially the "who says no" segment every ten minutes.


137. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 06, 2012 at 09:10 PM (#4055118)
Listening to the 76ers radio feed, I'm beginning to understand Steagles better. It's not just him, it's the entire Philadelphia fanbase.
141. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: February 06, 2012 at 09:59 PM (#4055148)
calling him bipolar would be an understatement. you really should have listened to him when the sixers were 3-13 at the start of last season. they don't have a color guy in the booth, so he would just spiral downward in despair throughout the games because there was noone else on air to break his train of thought. it was really something.
   677. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 15, 2019 at 11:13 AM (#5822999)
I feel like this time every year nobody bothers talking about games anymore. Exhibit A for the NBA season being too long. It's generally relatively clear who's a contender, half the teams are coasting or tanking (or, in the case of the Lakers, both), and we aren't really going to get any more useful data until the playoffs start.

All that said, the end of the Mavs-Nuggets game last night was pretty excellent.
   678. jmurph Posted: March 15, 2019 at 11:17 AM (#5823002)
All that said, the end of the Mavs-Nuggets game last night was pretty excellent.

Celtics-Kings was pretty entertaining, too. This Kings team has so much going for it, they're really close to being damn tough next year. If Harrison Barnes was who people always thought he was going to be, he'd be such a good fit. And I'm really surprised by how good Hield has become (on offense- he looks pretty terrible to me on defense).
   679. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: March 15, 2019 at 11:21 AM (#5823004)
All that said, the end of the Mavs-Nuggets game last night was pretty excellent.

Luka has some FT issues lately, may have cost them the last 2 games.
   680. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 15, 2019 at 11:30 AM (#5823006)

All that said, the end of the Mavs-Nuggets game last night was pretty excellent.


That was an awful closeout by Plumlee.
   681. spivey Posted: March 15, 2019 at 12:04 PM (#5823014)
I feel like this time every year nobody bothers talking about games anymore. Exhibit A for the NBA season being too long. It's generally relatively clear who's a contender, half the teams are coasting or tanking (or, in the case of the Lakers, both), and we aren't really going to get any more useful data until the playoffs start.


Yeah, I've been in quite a post-ASB lull. The teams seem to be too, performances are very up and down right now.
   682. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: March 15, 2019 at 12:50 PM (#5823034)
It's been really bad the last two games, but Doncic's shot has been off all month - 7 games (all losses), 23.1% from three (52 attempts), 54.5% from the line (55 attempts).
   683. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: March 15, 2019 at 12:51 PM (#5823035)
This stretch feels particularly boring because (a) playoff teams are set and (b) the race for worst record isn't as meaningful. I have a bad feeling that it's going to seem a lot more exciting in retrospect when some team finishes with the 8th or 9th worst record and because of the flattening they jump to 1.
   684. JC in DC Posted: March 15, 2019 at 12:57 PM (#5823037)
The teams seem to be too, performances are very up and down right now.


I second this. I tried to watch the Lakers play Toronto the other night, and the performances were atrocious. The quality of play was just lousy. Yeah, I'm old school, so I still kinda get sick by the overt traveling and carrying, but I can watch without complaint when guys are shooting well, but LA was under 30% from 3, and maybe under 40% from the floor, and Toronto wasn't much better. It's just guys chucking the ball at the basket. Aesthetically very unpleasing.
   685. spivey Posted: March 15, 2019 at 02:20 PM (#5823051)
The Spurs won 47 games last year, and are on pace to do about the same this year. It's worth reiterating after their bad rodeo trip what a ####### wizard Pop and his team are. They're only 3 games out of 3rd right now. If someone gets really hot down the stretch, or cold, it could pretty drastically change the seeding.
   686. jmurph Posted: March 15, 2019 at 02:44 PM (#5823055)
The Spurs won 47 games last year, and are on pace to do about the same this year. It's worth reiterating after their bad rodeo trip what a ####### wizard Pop and his team are. They're only 3 games out of 3rd right now. If someone gets really hot down the stretch, or cold, it could pretty drastically change the seeding.

And would anyone honestly be shocked if they beat Denver in the first round? That's the current matchup, though it will certainly change several times over the next couple weeks.
   687. jmurph Posted: March 15, 2019 at 02:45 PM (#5823056)
I kind of like all the current matchups in the West:

Warriors vs Clippers
Nuggest vs Spurs
Rockets vs Jazz
Blazers vs Thunders
   688. Booey Posted: March 15, 2019 at 02:53 PM (#5823060)
And would anyone honestly be shocked if they beat Denver in the first round?


Yeah, Denver just doesn't seem that intimidating to me for a #2 seed. Of all the Jazz's potential first round opponents* (GSW, DEN, HOU, POR, OKC), I think they're my preference. If they stay at #2, I'd rather the Jazz finish in 7th than 6th (and draw the Rockets).


* Well, unless SAS or LAC goes on a huge run and finishes in Utah's bracket. I'd prefer either of them over Denver.
   689. tshipman Posted: March 15, 2019 at 03:08 PM (#5823063)
I don't think enough attention has been paid to what a weird team the spurs are.

Their stars have net negative ratings, and when they play together, are negative on the season.

Their best players by on/off are guys like Davis Bertans and Patty Mills, who almost exclusively play together on the second unit.

Their best lineups are mostly Poeltl lineups without DeRozan and Aldridge.

It's not clear to me at all what their identity is, as they seem to be an entirely different team with the bench units.
   690. tshipman Posted: March 15, 2019 at 03:18 PM (#5823065)
I should point out: the Spurs season is not exactly a clear cut case of great coaching to me.

DeRozan has been a negative on the season, and it's not at all clear to me that he and Aldridge are a good fit, or should play together. Their best lineups are not the featured lineups, and the team lacks identity.

With a different context, different coach, people would potentially be talking about this team as being held back by its coach.
   691. JC in DC Posted: March 15, 2019 at 03:50 PM (#5823069)
With a different context, different coach, people would potentially be talking about this team as being held back by its coach.


Or, they'd cease the hypothetical and still be talking about how this old coach has done yet another great job developing talent and finding pieces that work well together? Guys who are not stars, or play well as second units, might not have the same numbers as, and against, first units.
   692. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 15, 2019 at 03:51 PM (#5823070)
I would listen to a BBTF NBA Thread Podcast. Regular segments could be "Rumor!" with Der-K, Odds/Numbers Analysis from Scott Lange, "The Process Revisited" with STIGGLES, and "Anti-Lakers Bias in the Media" with me.
That would be fun. Two years ago, I did an Angels podcast for half a season, got up to around 60 subscribers, but technical issues, time, and deadbeat partners that left me holding the bag soured me on the experience. Actually doing the cast itself was a ton of fun, though, and gave me a great appreciation for people who have to fill up hours of air time every single day. "The Off-Ball Podcast with A Bunch of Baseball Geeks" would be something I'd subscribe to.
   693. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: March 15, 2019 at 03:52 PM (#5823072)
I don't think enough attention has been paid to what a weird team the spurs are.

The Spurs and Clippers are very similar. Their rosters largely consist of one-way players, and their talent distribution is exceedingly flat. Thus, their bench units tend to perform substantially better than the starters, based on the quality of their opposition.

For the Spurs, I'd argue that Derrick White is their most important player. Without him, the perimeter defense in the starting lineup is disastrous, and they'll fall too far behind. As long as they can keep the game close against the opponent's starters, they have a good chance of coming away with a win.
   694. spivey Posted: March 15, 2019 at 03:54 PM (#5823073)
Re: 690

I dunno. Their role/bench players are mostly good but also mostly pretty one or two-dimensional. DeRozan and Aldridge are also playing mostly against the strongest lineups, I suspect. I think Mills and Bertans are good players but I think if you put Mills with the starting unit and Forbes with the secondary unit, I would worry about the secondary unit having enough playmaking. I'm not sure Mills can handle more minutes over the season, at least it doesn't seem like the Spurs have really thought that in his career.

On the whole, I can kind of see why you'd come to that conclusion with the numbers, but I think if you look at the actual players that are generating these results, I don't think it holds.
   695. tshipman Posted: March 15, 2019 at 04:02 PM (#5823075)
On the whole, I can kind of see why you'd come to that conclusion with the numbers, but I think if you look at the actual players that are generating these results, I don't think it holds.


I guess I'm arguing less for "Pop is doing a bad job" and more for, "It's hard to tell what exactly is going on with the Spurs."

The Spurs and Clippers are very similar. Their rosters largely consist of one-way players, and their talent distribution is exceedingly flat. Thus, their bench units tend to perform substantially better than the starters, based on the quality of their opposition.


This is generally a good take. I'd be interested in learning more about how teams with good benches perform in the playoffs.

It seems to me that it's very hard to tell the difference between two players:
Player A: Guy who crushes mediocre second units but gets exposed against good competition
Player B: Guy who is being held back by his coaching staff and just needs a chance to be a star

Often, it is only clear in hindsight.
   696. Booey Posted: March 15, 2019 at 04:47 PM (#5823083)
For the Spurs, I'd argue that Derrick White is their most important player. Without him, the perimeter defense in the starting lineup is disastrous, and they'll fall too far behind.


Just want to gloat for a second, but back in our 2017 mock draft, I had the 24th, 30th, and 42nd picks for the Jazz and came away with John Collins, Derrick White, and Kyle Kuzma.

Good evidence that the draft is a crap shoot, since I don't know jack about college hoops.
   697. Paul D(uda) Posted: March 15, 2019 at 07:26 PM (#5823092)
I find it strange that DeRozan is apparently a consistent negative, and yet his Raptors and Spurs teams perform, at worst, to their level or above it. And he's been the first or second option on each team.
   698. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: March 15, 2019 at 07:41 PM (#5823094)
For the Spurs, I'd argue that Derrick White is their most important player. Without him, the perimeter defense in the starting lineup is disastrous, and they'll fall too far behind. As long as they can keep the game close against the opponent's starters, they have a good chance of coming away with a win.


See, this is the wizardry of Popovich / Spurs: this exact sentence was being said about Dejounte Murray coming into this season. Then Murray tore his ACL and people were like, oh, they're ######. Now this sentence is being written about the guy who replaced Murray. This #### isn't normal.
   699. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 15, 2019 at 08:54 PM (#5823099)
More
Utah Jazz guard Dante Exum has suffered a partially torn patellar tendon in his right knee and is sidelined indefinitely.


Sigh. I really liked how he was progressing before he got injured this year. I imagine Jazz will have him for at least two more years to see if he does ever develop into something, but it's pretty hard not to think he's just never going to stay healthy.
   700. NJ in NY (Now with Big Girl!) Posted: March 15, 2019 at 11:51 PM (#5823103)
[699] Not trying to be a dick, but...this is exactly why you don't hesitate to move him in a deadline deal.
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