Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, May 30, 2018

OT - 2018 NBA Summer Potpourri (finals, draft, free agency, Colangelo dragging)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  complaints about mayonnaise.


EDIT: image is shrunken. Mouse over to show full size. -vi

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: May 30, 2018 at 12:56 AM | 3479 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 19 of 35 pages ‹ First  < 17 18 19 20 21 >  Last ›
   1801. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:02 PM (#5698012)
Flip
   1802. jmurph Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:03 PM (#5698013)
What a disastrous way of looking at the 2nd round, particularly for a team with so many bad contracts:
Olshey: "Anyone who thinks they're going to find a guy with the 37th pick that's going to step in right away and play on a 49-win playoff team ends up with a guy that's out of the league in a year."
   1803. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:03 PM (#5698014)
I'm not sure about Hutchison, but I like the pick of Carter for purely basketball reasons (I also like it for rootability reasons). Once Bamba and Young went in front of the Bulls, Carter was the clear #1 on my board.

That's fine, and if the Bulls flawed criteria leads them to making the right choice, I'm not going to be stubborn and hate it on principle. I don't want to make it seem like the Bulls have to make an "exciting" pick or a big trade for me to be happy. I mean, in the press conference last night, Paxson talked about how happy he is that Carter likes to set picks.
   1804. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:04 PM (#5698015)
[1798] My understanding is that the point of promising someone is so they won't work out for other teams. Even if it's just that they won't work out for teams below you, those teams could jump above you.

I agree that applied to Chandler Hutchison in this draft by the Bulls that seems very silly.
   1805. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5698020)
They kinda did the opposite of that with the Cam Payne trade, didn't they? Of course that was such a flop that they will now avoid flashy fun-loving cocky guys even more. But then again they also have Zach LaVine.

I'm drawing a blank on what you mean with regards to Payne. He's just a guy that sucks, and sucked before they traded for him. As for Lavine, I'm positive Dunn was the main draw in that trade, whether they'd admit it or not.
   1806. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:06 PM (#5698021)
I agree that applied to Chandler Hutchison in this draft by the Bulls that seems very silly.

Pretty weird indeed. It's not like he's a secret with only grainy bootleg video available. He played at Boise State, not Penn State-Mont Alto. Teams have enough info about him without a personal workout.
   1807. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:10 PM (#5698024)
Nick Friedell @NickFriedell

Bulls may still lock up restricted free agent Zach LaVine this summer -- but as an organization the near universal support LaVine once had internally isn't there anymore. Bulls will wait to see if he can find big $$$ elsewhere first and then decide if they want to match.
   1808. . . . . . . Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:11 PM (#5698025)
In the lower first round, the promise can keep a guy in the draft as opposed to going back to school.
   1809. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:12 PM (#5698027)
He was a senior, so n/a here
   1810. jmurph Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:29 PM (#5698040)
Tim Bontemps @TimBontemps
This is a bad look by the Cavs, just like it was a bad look when the Thunder gave 35 to someone. Both numbers unquestionably should be retired.

This is in reference to giving #2 to Sexton. The idea of retiring Kyrie's number after only 6 seasons is kind of nuts.
   1811. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5698043)
Kyrie Irving's number "unquestionably should be retired" by the Cavs? After 6 seasons? 381 games plus three playoffs? 4 All-Star games? After he was disgruntled and wanted to leave, and might go on to spend 12 years with the Celtics for all we know? How often does Bontemps think a team typically retires a number?
   1812. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5698048)
On the other hand Kyrie IS the sixth-best player in the franchise's 45 year history.

Dunno. Is Larry Nance's number retired?
   1813. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:44 PM (#5698056)
Cleveland Cavaliers retired numbers: More than I thought

Bingo Smith: 9 seasons
Larry Nance*: 7 seasons including two injury-marred - similar to Kyrie Irving in that way
Austin Carr: 9 seasons
Brad Daugherty: 8 seasons
Ilgauskas: 13 seasons

*(exception: relatives of Larry Nance also named Larry Nance may wear #22)

Anyway, it is still possible to retire #2 for Kyrie Irving. Collin Sexton does not sully it forever. But right now it seems like he'll end his career associated with some other team than the Cavs.
   1814. jmurph Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5698063)
I'm trying to think of a Celtics analogue: Ray Allen? He only played 5 seasons, but was a very important part of a title winning team (and another runner up). Fairly similar, I think. I wouldn't think Boston should retire his number, if I had to give an answer, but I don't have strong feelings either way.
   1815. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5698064)
What if LeBron wanted Sexton to have Kyrie's number?
   1816. aberg Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:49 PM (#5698065)
*(exception: relatives of Larry Nance also named Larry Nance may wear #22)


Does this apply to all Larrys Nance or just Jr?
   1817. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:53 PM (#5698069)
Charles Barkley's number is retired by both the 76ers and the Suns. Kind of like the Ray Allen situation. Oscar Robertson's number is retired by the Bucks and he was only there four years. Clyde Drexler's number is retired by the Rockets.

OK, I've changed my mind about this. NBA teams have plenty of numbers to go around since the rosters are so small. If someone was a crucial star of a championship team, retire the number. But you don't retire the number until the guy himself retires. And Kyrie Irving is only 26 right now - they can't be expected to keep the number "informally retired" until he retires in the year 2030.
   1818. PJ Martinez Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5698074)
I'm trying to think of a Celtics analogue: Ray Allen? He only played 5 seasons, but was a very important part of a title winning team (and another runner up). Fairly similar, I think. I wouldn't think Boston should retire his number, if I had to give an answer, but I don't have strong feelings either way.
They already gave Allen's old number to Gordon Hayward.
   1819. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 22, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5698079)
And look how that turned out for Hayward.
   1820. Booey Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5698086)
The idea of retiring Kyrie's number after only 6 seasons is kind of nuts.


Kyrie Irving's number "unquestionably should be retired" by the Cavs? After 6 seasons?


Eh, we're in an era of unprecedented star movement. The days when most stars stayed 10-15+ years with their original teams seem more like the product of a bygone era with each passing offseason.

Also, as #1812 and #1813 pointed out, the Cavs don't exactly have a long list of superstars in their franchise history. Most teams have to have significantly lower standards with their number retirements than say, the Lakers or Celtics. The Jazz, for example, retired Jeff Hornacek's number, who played just 6 and a half years with the team (1994-2000) and never once made an AS team with Utah. But he was a fan favorite and his arrival contributed to the most successful run in franchise history (prorating the strike year, they averaged 59 wins in those years and made the WCF 4 times and the Finals twice). So I get it, and I'm fine with it, even though I'd be opposed to retiring just about any other players' number with a comparable tenure but minus the team results. For example, I'd vote "no" to Deron Williams (5.5 seasons, 2 AS games), Carlos Boozer (6 seasons, 2 AS games), Mehmet Okur (7 seasons, 1 AS game), Paul Millsap (7 seasons, no AS games), and Gordon Hayward (7 seasons, 1 AS game). I'd vote "yes" to Kirilenko, though (10 seasons, 1 AS game). He's at least as noteworthy in team history as Hornacek, Eaton, or Griffith (all retired).
   1821. Booey Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5698088)
I'm trying to think of a Celtics analogue: Ray Allen? He only played 5 seasons, but was a very important part of a title winning team (and another runner up). Fairly similar, I think. I wouldn't think Boston should retire his number, if I had to give an answer, but I don't have strong feelings either way.


Celtics have had more HOFers to choose from than most teams, though.
   1822. PJ Martinez Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:18 PM (#5698095)
Irving's got a better case than Ray Allen, anyway, given that Allen was clearly the third banana on those Celtics teams, and didn't start his career in Boston, and just generally isn't as popular a player as Irving.

Totally different subject: Drew Hanlen apparently talked a bit about trying to fix Fultz's jump shot.
   1823. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:27 PM (#5698106)
The Pistons have retired pretty much everyone on the Bad Boys teams numbers and are working towards that with the 2004 team. Feels like this happened because the franchise has been in the doldrums and it gives them an excuse to sell tickets for a night. Or maybe I'm just a killjoy.

It's a good thing they'll never win anything again or they'd start running out of numbers.
   1824. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:32 PM (#5698111)
Bulls have been pretty stingy with jersey retirements. Only 4 - MJ, Pip, Sloan, and Love. I can't recall much of a push for anyone else in a while, though a few guys have taken #### for trying to take Rose's 1 (MCW chose it, but switched due to the backlash; I think someone else may have done the same thing).
   1825. Booey Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:46 PM (#5698122)
Bulls have been pretty stingy with jersey retirements.

Do they have really high standards, or has there just not been that many players with a long enough tenure?

I initially thought, "They didn't retire Rodman's number?" But then I realized that he actually only played 3 seasons with them.
   1826. jmurph Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5698125)
Totally different subject: Drew Hanlen apparently talked a bit about trying to fix Fultz's jump shot.

A (presumably extremely highly paid) personal skills coach confirming to the world that Fultz had the yips is a really, really bad look. Doesn't seem like that would be good for business.

   1827. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 22, 2018 at 04:55 PM (#5698131)
Do they have really high standards, or has there just not been that many players with a long enough tenure?

Probably the latter, but they could consider Gilmore or Chet Walker, or perhaps guys like Horace Grant or Kukoc, if they wanted more representation from the championship teams.
   1828. Booey Posted: June 22, 2018 at 05:01 PM (#5698139)
Just looked up Kukoc. 6.5 years with the team, never made an AS game (getting old - I thought he had). But if memory serves, the Bulls were pretty good in those years. So yeah, I guess that's a pretty comparable case to Hornacek.
   1829. GregD Posted: June 22, 2018 at 05:03 PM (#5698144)
Is Mark Eaton the worst NBA player with a retired jersey? (That said I obviously would have retired his jersey were I the Jazz.)

Or Dave Twardzik?

Or Tom Meschery?

Other than the special cases like Malik Sealy and Bobby Phils
   1830. jmurph Posted: June 22, 2018 at 05:06 PM (#5698145)
Not exactly a surprise here:
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine
Oklahoma City’s Carmelo Anthony does not intend to opt out of his current contract before his Saturday ETO deadline, @NYTSports has learned.
   1831. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 22, 2018 at 05:06 PM (#5698147)
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine 5m5 minutes ago

Oklahoma City’s Carmelo Anthony does not intend to opt out of his current contract before his Saturday ETO deadline, @NYTSports has learned. Full coverage here:


Shocking.

EDIT: Dammit
   1832. Booey Posted: June 22, 2018 at 05:18 PM (#5698150)
Is Mark Eaton the worst NBA player with a retired jersey? (That said I obviously would have retired his jersey were I the Jazz.)


According to Win Shares, he's not even the worst player to have his jersey retired by the Jazz. Dr Dunkenstein Darrell Griffith had half as many Win Shares in his career as Big Mark (22.0 to 44.8).

And yeah, Eaton was an obvious choice for Utah. Spent entire 11 year career with the team, made All NBA defensive 1st or 2nd team five years in a row, 2 time DPOY, 1 AS game. Led league in blocks 4 times, and still holds the single season (5.6!) and career (3.5) records for bpg.
   1833. GregD Posted: June 22, 2018 at 05:36 PM (#5698155)
According to Win Shares, he's not even the worst player to have his jersey retired by the Jazz. Dr Dunkenstein Darrell Griffith had half as many Win Shares in his career as Big Mark (22.0 to 44.8).


Twardzik had 21.8 in 4 seasons with Portland

Meschery had 26.7 in 6 years with the PHI/SF Warriors

Larry Steele had 28.2 over 9 years with POR

Lloyd Neal had 22.7 over basically 6 years with POR

Brad David, Nate McMillan, Junior Bridgeman, Avery Johnson, and Vinnie Johnson were never all-stars (though they accumulated way more Win Shares over long careers than the guys above)
   1834. . . . . . . Posted: June 22, 2018 at 05:42 PM (#5698160)
They already gave Allen's old number to Gordon Hayward.


Special case because there totally are no hard feelings between the rest of the Ubuntu Celtics and Ray.
   1835. Booey Posted: June 22, 2018 at 06:12 PM (#5698176)
Looks like Pete Maravich had 20.1 WS in about 5.2 seasons with the Jazz.

So the list of Utah's retired jersey's (players only) goes like this (by WS with the team):

Malone - 230.3
Stockton - 207.7
Dantley - 76.3
Hornacek - 55.0
Eaton - 44.8
Griffith - 22.0
Maravich - 20.1

And the most notable non retired jersey's (at least amongst the guys I could think of to look up):

Kirilenko - 68.2
Millsap - 48.1
DWill - 46.7
Okur - 45.0
Hayward - 43.0
Rickey Green - 41.3
Bryon Russell - 41.1
Boozer - 40.2
Favors - 39.7
Thurl Bailey - 39.1
Gobert - 38.5


Conclusions: AK-47 is 4th in team history, so he's a no-brainer. Hornacek is 5th, so he's a solid choice too, rather than borderline like I always thought. And Griffith and Maravich look like weak selections for a jersey retirement.
   1836. aberg Posted: June 22, 2018 at 07:01 PM (#5698195)
I'm trying to think of an analog to Eaton in basketball or another sport. He had a body and approach perfectly suited to do exactly one thing extremely well. That one thing was important, but not one of the most important things in the game. He also came along at the right time to maximize that skill.

Steph Curry shooting threes is more important to the game than Eaton's blocks and he does not stuff better than Eaton.

It kind of reminds me of a hitter who draws tons of hbps, but those are less important.

It reminds me a bit of a football player who is really good at forcing fumbles. Remember when Peanut Tillman kept forcing fumbles for the Bears? He didn't do it nearly as often as Eaton blocked shots, but each one probably mattered more.

A great kick returner, like Devin Hester or Dante Hall is also similar. Maybe 3s before they were such a big part of the game, and someone like Kerr, Legler, or Kapono. Rickey stealing 9 million bases is similar, but he was great at many things.
   1837. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 22, 2018 at 07:11 PM (#5698198)
Vince Coleman, but for the analogy to work perfectly Eaton would have to actually be harming his team slightly more than he's helping it, by messing up the rest of the defense or taking a lot of fouls or something.
   1838. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: June 22, 2018 at 07:40 PM (#5698208)
I always felt the Knicks should have retired Starks, Mason, and Oakley's jerseys.
   1839. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 22, 2018 at 08:48 PM (#5698242)
It reminds me a bit of a football player who is really good at forcing fumbles. Remember when Peanut Tillman kept forcing fumbles for the Bears? He didn't do it nearly as often as Eaton blocked shots, but each one probably mattered more.

A great kick returner, like Devin Hester or Dante Hall is also similar. Maybe 3s before they were such a big part of the game, and someone like Kerr, Legler, or Kapono. Rickey stealing 9 million bases is similar, but he was great at many things.


You just want me to post right? Tillman was good at more than just the forced fumbles. He was a good cover corner, but did have that unique skill that made him even better. Hesters returns were also undoubtedly more important than the blocked shots. Both guys were fun to root for though.
   1840. aberg Posted: June 22, 2018 at 08:55 PM (#5698246)
Yeah, the return TDs were more valuable than the blocks but there were way fewer of them.

I'm assigning tshipman to research the WPA for Eaton's blocks in his best season compared to Hester's returns in his best season because I know that he loves when people recklessly speculate on knowable questions and leave the work for him.
   1841. Chicago Joe Posted: June 22, 2018 at 09:35 PM (#5698260)
Looks like the Cavs also retired Mark Price (sure) and Nate Thurmond (wtf).
Thurmond averaged 5/7 in a little over 100 games for Cleveland. Might be the worst career segment of anyone with a retired number for the team that retired the number.
   1842. Stevey Posted: June 22, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5698261)
Cleveland Cavaliers retired numbers: More than I thought

Bingo Smith: 9 seasons
Larry Nance*: 7 seasons including two injury-marred - similar to Kyrie Irving in that way
Austin Carr: 9 seasons
Brad Daugherty: 8 seasons
Ilgauskas: 13 seasons


You missed the best one! Not Mark Price, but Nate Thurmond, who played all of 114 games in Cleveland, the vast majority off the bench, where he averaged five points a game, but was considered the leader of the "Miracle at Richfield" Cavs, who won all of one playoff series.
   1843. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 22, 2018 at 10:12 PM (#5698271)
Nate Thurmond was also a hometown hero from Akron, OH. Some may have seen rumors of him being LeBron James's biological father.

Especially important as Richfield itself was in the middle of nowhere halfway between Cleveland and Akron, despite the team name.
   1844. tshipman Posted: June 22, 2018 at 10:12 PM (#5698272)
I'm assigning tshipman to research the WPA for Eaton's blocks in his best season compared to Hester's returns in his best season because I know that he loves when people recklessly speculate on knowable questions and leave the work for him.


1. I realize this is a joke, but I was curious and looked into this.
2. I forgot Adrian Dantley played so many years for Utah.
3. I don't know how you'd go about looking at WPA, so I looked at how well Eaton's stats correlated with MOV in Utah wins in 1984-85 (his biggest block season)
3a: Blocks had a better correlation (but still low at .23) than Game Score or points.
3b: Eaton FGA had a negative correlation with MOV (lol), but so did other stats that you'd expect, like TOV and Fouls
3c: however, the highest correlation was with DREB
4. I think Eaton's blocks in highest leverage situations were probably pretty underrated. Eaton had 14 blocks in this game, and it probably made the difference between the six and seven seeds. Eaton rates out as below average that year by PER, but I'd bet he was one of the better players on their team that year.
5. That said, there were definitely games where Eaton appeared to go too hard for blocks, at the expense of rebounding. These three games, where Eaton had more blocks than D-rebounds, were all bad losses that Utah needed to win.
6. In general, Eaton's impact on winning was probably slightly underrated, but he was a flawed player who probably got better the less he tried to go for blocks (somewhat paradoxically).
   1845. Howie Menckel Posted: June 22, 2018 at 10:30 PM (#5698281)
Especially important as Richfield itself was in the middle of nowhere halfway between Cleveland and Akron, despite the team name.

can confirm.

but Richfield was a neighboring city to Cleveland, compared to Auburn Hills to Detroit. THAT was really weird.
   1846. PJ Martinez Posted: June 22, 2018 at 11:21 PM (#5698293)
Some interesting LeBron chatter between Lowe, Windhorst, and Nichols on the latest Lowe Post. Consensus is that Lakers are the favorites, though maybe only the slight favorites, with Cleveland the other main contender and Philly having an outside chance. Lowe and Windhorst agreed that Houston et al are now out of it. (Bill Simmons, for what it's worth, also says on his most recent podcast that it's down to L.A. and Cleveland, though he's been confident for a while that it will be L.A.) Windhorst thinks that James will make his decision by July 4 or so (Lowe was guessing a little later), and that his stated rationale will be that this is what will make him and his family happy, and that it won't be about the roster or championships in the short term.
   1847. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 23, 2018 at 01:47 AM (#5698317)
At this point in LeBron's career, he may figure that if he's going to lose to the Warriors regardless it might as well be in mid-May as mid-June.
   1848. sardonic Posted: June 23, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5698415)
I will say this, if Lebron actually goes to the Lakers and it ushers in an era of Celtics dominance in the East, we're going to find out in 25 years that Danny Ainge somehow manipulated Lebron into going to LA by introducing Lebron Jr. to some hot high schoolers in LA on Instagram or by using some other ####### wizardry.
   1849. dlf Posted: June 23, 2018 at 03:08 PM (#5698426)
Post playing career, Mark Eaton became a motivational speaker.

At the age of 21 Mark Eaton was an auto mechanic with no talent for basketball. In a few short years, using the teamwork principles he now teaches, he became the NBA’s Defensive Player of the Year-twice! He also earned a spot on the All-Star team and broke the NBA record for most blocked shots in a single season: 456. It is still the record today.


His website is, of course, 7ft4.
   1850. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 23, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5698434)
You, too, can go from anonymous auto mechanic to NBA star in a few short years! All you have to do is work hard, embrace teamwork, and be 7-foot-4.
   1851. puck Posted: June 23, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5698518)
"You can't teach tall."

Have the Jazz retired Frank Layden's er, glasses or sports jacket?
   1852. dlf Posted: June 23, 2018 at 05:57 PM (#5698528)
My wife went to high school with Pete Chilcutt, the 6'10" former first round pick / journey man player with a 9 year NBA career. I met him at a reunion. I'm not a small guy - 6'3" - so Chilcutt was big, but not ridiculously so. Then at a conference all 7'4" of Mark Eaton walked past me before he spoke. Oh my.
   1853. sardonic Posted: June 23, 2018 at 06:51 PM (#5698539)
If Lebron does stay in Cleveland, I could see them making a trade with the Hornets, something like George Hill, JR Smith and Collin Sexton and an unprotected 2021 1st for Kemba Walker and Nic Batum.

George Hill essentially only has this coming season left on his deal, and JR Smith has 2 more. Batum is 2 more seasons at $25M + a player option in year 3 at $27M that he seems likely to exercise.

The deal would save the Bobcats $8M in 2019-20 and $27M in 2020, essentially reset their team for 2020 instead of 2021, and they'd pick up Sexton and a likely future high lottery pick in the potentially stacked 2021 draft. They'd be trading away this coming season's chance at being #10 in the East instead of contending for the top of the lottery.

I'd probably do that if I'm Rich Cho.

In this world Cleveland would probably match an offer sheet to Rodney Hood, and I believe they'd still have the taxpayer MLE to sign a backup point guard (Fred VanVleet?), leaving them with

INITIATORS
Lebron James
Kemba Walker
Fred VanVleet

WINGS
Nic Batum
Kyle Korver
Jordan Clarkson
Rodney Hood

BIGS
Kevin Love
Larry Nance Jr.
Tristan Thompson
   1854. sardonic Posted: June 23, 2018 at 06:53 PM (#5698541)
I think the above team has the talent to be favored over Boston or Philly, though I feel like coaching could still hold them back from reaching their full potential.
   1855. sardonic Posted: June 23, 2018 at 07:13 PM (#5698546)
Meanwhile, if I'm the Lakers and Kawhi isn't getting traded and Lebron isn't coming, I think I take my ball and go home. Re-signing Julius Randle to a multiyear deal (say 4/$40M?) would leave them enough room to sign both Paul George either this year or next, and then sign Kawhi Leonard to a max in 2019 just by stretching Luol Deng.

Then you'd go into 2019-20 with:

INITIATORS
Lonzo Ball
Josh Hart

WINGS
Paul George
Kawhi Leonard
Brandon Ingram
Kyle Kuzma

BIGS
Julius Randle
Moritz Wagner

They have all their future firsts and their 2019 one could still be pretty good in this scenario plus the taxpayer MLE to add a veteran big to round out the roster.
   1856. tshipman Posted: June 23, 2018 at 08:47 PM (#5698571)
If Lebron does stay in Cleveland, I could see them making a trade with the Hornets, something like George Hill, JR Smith and Collin Sexton and an unprotected 2021 1st for Kemba Walker and Nic Batum.

George Hill essentially only has this coming season left on his deal, and JR Smith has 2 more. Batum is 2 more seasons at $25M + a player option in year 3 at $27M that he seems likely to exercise.

The deal would save the Bobcats $8M in 2019-20 and $27M in 2020, essentially reset their team for 2020 instead of 2021, and they'd pick up Sexton and a likely future high lottery pick in the potentially stacked 2021 draft. They'd be trading away this coming season's chance at being #10 in the East instead of contending for the top of the lottery.

I'd probably do that if I'm Rich Cho.


Your problem here is that Rich Cho got fired because Charlotte didn't make the playoffs and Mitch Kupchak is now the GM.

Mitch isn't looking to trade Kemba for a pupu platter, I have to imagine.
   1857. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: June 23, 2018 at 10:14 PM (#5698594)
That potential Cleveland team is still garbage on D, though better all-around.

Pete Chilcutt came to my high school basketball camp. A UNC player came every year as a guest speaker, I think Rick Fox was the previous year.

   1858. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 24, 2018 at 04:06 AM (#5698614)
[1856] Are you saying you wouldn't make that deal as the Hornets or that Kupchak wouldn't? I'd make that deal in a heartbeat as Charlotte.

Walker is getting the max after next year and the odds that he'll ever be worth more than the max seem really small to me. Not much surplus value or upside there, Charlotte is not winning a championship with Kemba Walker as their best player, period.
   1859. sardonic Posted: June 24, 2018 at 09:59 AM (#5698646)
My question for CHA (forgot about Kupchak, good call) in that scenario is who is going to do better? The top contenders next year I think are Golden State, Houston, Boston, Philly and Cleveland with Lebron, and Cleveland is the only one I could see desperate enough to rent Kemba Walker for significant future assets.

Batum has $76M/3 left on his deal (including player opt in) -- Chandler Parsons had only $45M/2 and no one would take the 4th pick to clear that contract. Cleveland is essentially giving up one lottery pick each to clear JR Smith ($30M/2) and George Hill ($19M/1). Charlotte is giving up one year of Kemba Walker to clear a worse contract than Parsons's.

If they don't make a deal and run it back... last year's team finished 10th in the East (albeit 8th in point differential) and fired its coach.
   1860. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 24, 2018 at 10:06 AM (#5698648)
If they don't make a deal and run it back... last year's team finished 10th in the East (albeit 8th in point differential) and fired its coach.


But also got rid of Dwight Howard, which can't help but be an improvement!
   1861. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 24, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5698654)
My question for CHA (forgot about Kupchak, good call) in that scenario is who is going to do better?

I'd like the Bucks to be in on any Kemba talks because I think he's a better fit next to Giannis than Bledsoe, but I wouldn't want to give up more than Bledsoe+something. I guess I would take Batum back if they took Delly or Henson.

I also think there's a non-zero chance he gets less than a max contract next off-season. Although I guess if Gordon Hayward got one then probably Kemba will too, I see them as in roughly equivalent tiers.
   1862. Oriole Tragic: doomed to mysterious ignomy Posted: June 24, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5698670)
JR Smith's last year is only guaranteed for around 3.5MM if they waive him by this time next year. So his remaining guarantee is more like 1/19MM.
   1863. sardonic Posted: June 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5698672)
Sure, I'll give the Bucks the STIGGLES treatment.

They are $30M over the cap with Jabari Parker's $20M cap hold, I wonder what they are going to do with him.

For the purposes of this exercise, let's say they renounce him, Shabazz Muhammad and the rest of their end of bench free agents. They'd still be over the cap (under the tax)

I don't think swapping Bledsoe for Kemba makes sense for CHA straight up. Bledsoe is also an FA after this season, he's the same age as Kemba and not as good.

To take Batum's contract, they'd have to match with both Henson and Dellavedova. Both have two years guaranteed, making a combined $21M/year for the next two years. But combined with Bledsoe, over the lifetime of the contracts involved the Bucks combo makes more ($57M over two vs. $49M over three)

So then the question is what other assets the Bucks would want to kick into the deal. Would you rather have one year of Bledsoe and Milwaukee's 2021 first rounder, or Collin Sexton and Cleveland's 2021 1st?

I'd argue that Sexton > Bledsoe as an asset, and Cleveland's pick is much more attractive than the Bucks's. Giannis will likely keep them out of the lottery in most years, vs. Cleveland's pick will likely be in the high lottery.

The Bucks still owe Phoenix a first round pick in one of the next 2-3 years, so 2021 is the earliest they could convey a 1st round pick in a deal this offseason, and the next one after that is 2023. The other lever they could pull would be to throw Donte DiVincenzo into the dela, but even then I'm not sure Bledsoe for a year + DiVincenzo + Bucks 2021 1st is more attractive than Sexton + Cleveland 2021 1st. CHA might favor the Bucks's package if they don't want to bottom out this coming year (unclear if Bledsoe really moves the needle there), or at least avoid the appearance of a "Process" situation. It's close enough that I don't think it'd be crazy for them to do the Bucks deal over the Cavs, would depend a lot on your evaluation of Sexton vs. DiVincenzo.

In this scenario the Bucks are definitely a lot better off, IMO:

INITIATORS
Kemba Walker
Malcolm Brogdan

WINGS
GIANNIS
Khris Middleton*
Nic Batum
Tony Snell

BIGS
Thon Maker

Man, that is rougher than I thought. They'd still have the MLE, and a crunch time lineup of GIANNIS, Kemba, Middleton, Batum and ??? would be pretty dope. But is that the core you're locking yourself into the tax for? I feel like if you're going that far, you might as well, lock in Jabari Parker too since you'll have so few options to add more talent in the next few years. The team would also be out two first round picks in the next three drafts. And you'd be deep in the tax to keep Kemba after the season, without a lot of options to replace him if he walks.

This feels pretty Blazer-y. I suppose that might not be the worst thing to be the Blazers, but with GIANNIS instead of Dame as your best player. That team would be exciting to watch, could be a regular 3-5 seed kind of team, a consistent second tier EC contender who could make a conference finals and take it to 6 games if things go right, kind of like the Grit and Grind Memphis teams.


* I feel like it's likely that he opts out right? He's gotta be able to do better than a $13M/1 year deal on the FA market. Still, if you're picking up Kemba it feels like you're ready to go all in, lock in your core and just operate over the cap/luxury tax for the next few years, so you'd use Bird rights to go over the cap and keep Middleton and pay the tax. I assume you'd do the same to match any offer sheets Brogdon gets, which I imagine wouldn't be too crazy.

   1864. sardonic Posted: June 24, 2018 at 12:04 PM (#5698673)
JR Smith's last year can be bought out for around 3.5MM. So his remaining guarantee is more like 1/19MM.


Ahh, great catch, I did not know that. That's actually huge if Cleveland wants to move those deals to take on bad salary for assets.
   1865. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 24, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5698704)
Brogdon is a nice player but pretty fungible, IMO. I don't think you're helping your team win by paying him eight figures.
   1866. sardonic Posted: June 24, 2018 at 02:10 PM (#5698720)
Will Brogdon really get 8 figure offers in RFA? He seems more like a $7M per year for 3 years kinda guy. I think that's roughly the going rate for a decent rotation piece you can play in the playoffs.

I think if the Bucks want to go for it with a Kemba trade, they'd basically be locked into keeping guys like that, because they'll have no way to add outside talent even at that level during their run.

Maybe what that's really saying is that the Bucks shouldn't be going all in this offseason. They have Giannis for three more seasons, so they can afford to be at least a little patient.

A middle road would be to sign Jabari Parker to a 4 year, $67M deal and the decide what to do after next season when Khris Middleton would presumably decline his player option.

At that point, they'd have long term:

GIANNIS - $53M over 2 years
Jabari Parker - $51M over 3 years
Tony Snell - $23M over 2 years *
Donte DiVincenzo

Whatever DJ Wilson is

They'd also have:
Team option on Thon Maker at $3.5M
Bird Rights on Khris Middleton and Early Bird on Eric Bledsoe

Depending on how Jabari develops, that might be something. Renouncing both Khris Middleton and Bledsoe would get them to $15M in cap space. If they don't sign Jabari, then they'd have near max cap room next offseason.

It feels like the team has a great start with GIANNIS and Khris Middleton as your 2nd/3rd banana. Bledsoe isn't bad, I think you can be a contender with him at PG. They really need to either keep Jabari and have him stay healthy and consistent and become Gordon Hayward lite? Or have Thon Maker make himself into Clint Capela.

I guess having typed all this out, it seems unlikely to me that Milwaukee will be able to get significantly better players than they have now, and GIANNIS, Middleton, Bledsoe and a healthy Jabari is not a bad start at all. If they can get good role players around that through drafting, the G League and using the MLE, why not them?

I think the Kemba hypothetical also illustrates how hard it is to improve on a team like this. You trade a couple decent role players and sign up for WAY more money and gut your future draft picks to upgrade Bledsoe to Kemba.

*Snell has a player option for 19-20 at $12M... yuck... if he doesn't live up to that that's really painful... imagine if that was PJ Tucker or Trevor Ariza instead?
   1867. tshipman Posted: June 24, 2018 at 02:24 PM (#5698723)
[1856] Are you saying you wouldn't make that deal as the Hornets or that Kupchak wouldn't? I'd make that deal in a heartbeat as Charlotte.

Walker is getting the max after next year and the odds that he'll ever be worth more than the max seem really small to me. Not much surplus value or upside there, Charlotte is not winning a championship with Kemba Walker as their best player, period.


I am certain Kupchak won't make that deal.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't either.

You have to get more for an all-star on a bargain contract than salary relief. Charlotte is already under the luxury tax for this year and 2019. If you dump Batum now, you trade him at his absolute nadir.

The east looks to be garbage yet again next year, and Charlotte underachieved the expected W/L yet again last year. Charlotte is trying to make the 6th seed, not win a championship. If they're bad again next year, all you have to do is let Kemba walk, and you can tank easily. They don't need to make moves to get worse.
   1868. sardonic Posted: June 24, 2018 at 02:35 PM (#5698724)
I am certain Kupchak won't make that deal.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't either.

You have to get more for an all-star on a bargain contract than salary relief. Charlotte is already under the luxury tax for this year and 2019. If you dump Batum now, you trade him at his absolute nadir.

The east looks to be garbage yet again next year, and Charlotte underachieved the expected W/L yet again last year. Charlotte is trying to make the 6th seed, not win a championship. If they're bad again next year, all you have to do is let Kemba walk, and you can tank easily. They don't need to make moves to get worse.


It's hard to fight you on this. Teams stuck in between in that 6 to 10 seed range don't have a ton of great options, so if one were to try to make the playoffs with a likable star like Kemba Walker and lose in the first round... well, it's likely that even tanking would not yield a better season than that until 2020 at the earliest.

I think moving Kemba to dump Batum and pick up a couple real assets could position Charlotte similar to where the Lakers were a couple seasons ago, with interesting assets and (edit) future cap room. That said, even after adding Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart, Brandon Ingram and D'Angelo Russell the past few years they have still not won more than 35 games.
   1869. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 24, 2018 at 02:51 PM (#5698732)
I honestly think Charlotte can stand pat and, if James Borrego is any good, have a pretty good shot at a middle playoff seed next year. They're not that bad, and they're in the East, and Cleveland will probably be dropping out of the playoffs, and no one who didn't make the playoffs last year is likely to be as good as Charlotte. If Kemba stays on the court all year they're going to be fine, IMO. Not a real contender to win the East, but there's no path for them to get that far anyway.
   1870. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 24, 2018 at 04:20 PM (#5698776)
yeah, one thing running the Bucks in this mock draft really solidified for me is that it's going to be hard for them to get much better. Most of their players are either too good to trade or too bad/expensive to trade without attaching an asset. They have very few fairly priced assets that they could move around to another team to try to improve.

That's why I'm open to them dealing Brogdon-- I have no idea how he's valued around the league and what kind of contract he'll get, but I agree that he's only valuable now because he's cheap. Once he signs a market-value contract he's just a guy, like the 25th best PG in the league or whatever.
   1871. PJ Martinez Posted: June 24, 2018 at 04:26 PM (#5698779)
During the first 12 offseasons with the max salary, just six current All-Stars changed teams via free agency. Then The Decision happened. Over the past eight summers, six All-Star free agents have changed teams, a rate more than double what we saw during the pre-max days.
   1872. sardonic Posted: June 24, 2018 at 08:21 PM (#5698882)
yeah, one thing running the Bucks in this mock draft really solidified for me is that it's going to be hard for them to get much better. Most of their players are either too good to trade or too bad/expensive to trade without attaching an asset. They have very few fairly priced assets that they could move around to another team to try to improve.


Building a championship team is so hard. I feel like for the Bucks it comes down to one of Jabari Parker or Thon Maker getting to an All Star level -- granted, Parker was the 2nd overall pick in 2014 and Maker was the 10th pick in 2015 -- and then getting someone better than Tony Snell on a big money, multiyear deal.
   1873. jmurph Posted: June 25, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5699156)
Building a championship team is so hard. I feel like for the Bucks it comes down to one of Jabari Parker or Thon Maker getting to an All Star level

The path that is at least as likely as that one is Giannis taking another leap forward and truly becoming the best player in the league, making the Bucks that much better and making possible all sorts of future roster possibilities.
   1874. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 25, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5699333)
The only way Giannis can really improve at this point is by becoming a reliable three point shooter, and that's really hard to imagine. Not saying it's impossible, but observing it's not something Milwaukee can reasonably expect--they need to assume what they see is what they have and build the team accordingly.
   1875. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: June 25, 2018 at 04:16 PM (#5699348)
The only way Giannis can really improve at this point is by becoming a reliable three point shooter, and that's really hard to imagine. Not saying it's impossible, but observing it's not something Milwaukee can reasonably expect--they need to assume what they see is what they have and build the team accordingly.

I think Giannis could become an all-NBA defender. I think it is quite unlikely to expect him to improve much at shooting, at least in the short to medium term. I think they just need to build a team with more spacing. Replacing Bledsoe for Kemba helps that a lot, but I see zero reason why Charlotte would do that. I don't think they do that even with a first.
   1876. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 25, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5699352)
Dunc'd On had their off season role playing pod today and they had a reasonable trade to send LeBron to Houston. Basically, Gordon, Tucker and 3 future unprotected #1's go to Cleveland. Houston also was able to keep Capela and Ariza. They had George staying in OKC with a 1 and 1, Durant staying with the Warriors with a 2 and 1 and Avery Bradley to the Warriors on the MLE. I'd be very happy with that. Cousins stayed with New Orleans, too.
   1877. aberg Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:07 PM (#5699446)
Dunc'd On had their off season role playing pod today and they had a reasonable trade to send LeBron to Houston. Basically, Gordon, Tucker and 3 future unprotected #1's go to Cleveland. Houston also was able to keep Capela and Ariza. They had George staying in OKC with a 1 and 1, Durant staying with the Warriors with a 2 and 1 and Avery Bradley to the Warriors on the MLE. I'd be very happy with that. Cousins stayed with New Orleans, too.


I think Windhorst said on Lowe's podcast that Lebron already decided that he's not opting-in for next year, which would take that option off the table. Even if it was a possibility, I think Cleveland might prefer to let him walk rather than pay hundreds of millions in luxury tax for a team that has no chance to even get to the ECF. Three first rounders (even late ones) are nice, but Gordon and Tucker on top of their existing contracts would cost them something like $60m next year between the two of them due to Cleveland's repeater tax.
   1878. . . . . . . Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:22 PM (#5699451)
I don’t think 28-30th picks are particularly valuable for a tax-paying rebuilding team. How do you squeeze useful surplus out of those picks?
   1879. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:49 PM (#5699508)
Whatever DJ Wilson is


He's Another One? More seriously, not even a Michigan homer like myself would have drafted him #17. He should have come back to school..except he went #17, so I guess he didn't. He certainly fits the Bucks' MO for raw, spring, rangy athletes that need skill upgrades. That said, he did play for Beilein and he can put it on the floor and shoot some. And as mentioned he's a pretty electrifying athlete, even by NBA standards.

He's a complete roll of the dice but he's already 22, which seems to stack the roll against him. Did he show much his rookie year? Doesn't seem like it. Only got in 22 games.

I don’t think 28-30th picks are particularly valuable for a tax-paying rebuilding team. How do you squeeze useful surplus out of those picks?


Seems like the the fact that 2-3 players in the 2nd round turn into solid rotation options or even more rarely more (out of the entirety of the round), weighs more heavily then the overwhelming odds that even for a good scouting club, it's likely to just be dead weight on your roster.
   1880. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 25, 2018 at 09:29 PM (#5699543)
Yeah, DJ Wilson barely played and didn't show a single NBA skill when he did. They hired Jon Horst as the new GM I think the Friday before the draft last year, so I'm willing to give him a pass for whiffing on DJ, but I'm not thrilled with the Donte pick either.

I think the most likely path to Giannis ascending even further isn't necessarily him becoming more skilled, it's having a coach that understands how to leverage his skills for greater success. He was already a dominant force on both ends in spite of Jason Kidd's idiotic schemes, so I'm looking forward to what Bud can figure out for him next season. And I imagine Bud is dreaming about it too-- he's seemed almost giddy talking about the prospect of coaching Giannis every time it's come up since his hire.
   1881. Booey Posted: June 25, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5699550)
So it's official; Simmons is ROY, despite the "ROOKIE?" van Mitchell rolled up in.

I love Donovan Mitchell. His trolling made that 'race' much more entertaining than it had any business being (The Garden crowd chanting played their part too, of course).
   1882. Booey Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:11 PM (#5699604)
DPOY RUDY GOBERT!!!!!!

Oh, also:

MVP - Harden
COY - Casey
ROY - Simmons
MIP - Oladipo
6th - Williams

So, basically everyone that was predicted to win.
   1883. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 26, 2018 at 08:08 AM (#5699655)
So, basically everyone that was predicted to win.


Which makes sense in a year where the finals match up and outcome were correctly predicted by everyone before the year even started. Sigh.
   1884. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5699790)
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine 40s40 seconds ago

Among the various options DeAndre Jordan has been weighing, according to league sources, is opting into the final season of his current contract (at $24.1 million) before Friday's midnight deadline to facilitate a trade -- with Dallas, sources say, among the teams interested


Does Dallas really want to go through that with him again?
   1885. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 26, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5699802)
I think I'd be all for starting FA before the draft.
   1886. aberg Posted: June 26, 2018 at 12:18 PM (#5699815)
Does Dallas really want to go through that with him again?


Also, if your two building blocks are as young as Smith and Doncic, why would you be trying to acquire highly paid guys in their 30s?
   1887. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 26, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5699820)
Lowe (I think) had an anecdote on his last podcast about talking to Carlisle in the weeks before the draft and asking him if he was ready for a rebuild, to which Carlisle replied that they were planning to contend, not rebuild, this year. Doncic obviously is the key there, but if the Mavs see themselves as a playoff team in the West, getting Jordan makes a lot of sense for their roster.

This also led to a conversation about the possibility Dirk playing 15 minutes for several years to come, mainly taking the scoring burden for the second team, and I hadn't previously considerd it, but I hope he has a long Kareem-style last act to his career.
   1888. jmurph Posted: June 26, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5699833)
Doncic obviously is the key there, but if the Mavs see themselves as a playoff team in the West, getting Jordan makes a lot of sense for their roster.

They were really quite bad last year. Even if they get DeAndre and Doncic is good right away, they still have to pass Denver and the LA teams, hope the Kings stay bad, and/or hope the Spurs send Kawhi East and rebuild. They have a steep climb just to get to 8.
   1889. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 26, 2018 at 12:43 PM (#5699834)
hope the Kings stay bad

I LOL'd
   1890. jmurph Posted: June 26, 2018 at 12:45 PM (#5699835)
I LOL'd

Wait'll you find out they won 3 more games than Dallas last year! (Dallas was probably the better team, of course.)
   1891. aberg Posted: June 26, 2018 at 12:51 PM (#5699838)
They were really quite bad last year. Even if they get DeAndre and Doncic is good right away, they still have to pass Denver and the LA teams, hope the Kings stay bad, and/or hope the Spurs send Kawhi East and rebuild. They have a steep climb just to get to 8.


I don't see it. The team is basically Smith (who is promising, but a young, inefficient PG), Matthews (injury-riddled shell of himself, below average player), Barnes (very average player), Dirk (great for 20 minutes per night), and 19-yo Doncic (even the best teenagers aren't very good). Even if you add DJ, I can't imagine any world where that roster has a winning record this year.

My approach would be to keep my powder dry around Smith and Doncic. If they can get a first rounder for Barnes, grab it. Otherwise, stand pat and let the contracts expire to try to create cap space right when Smith and Doncic start to hit their primes. If they can add another building block through the draft in the meantime, even better.
   1892. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 26, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5699842)
Maybe I missed it, but did anyone criticize the Kings for not making the trade with the Mavs that the Hawks did? They could have in theory still ended up with Bagley - or at worst JJJ, who probably will be better anyway - plus the Mavs pick? I know trade talks don't always work that way, but that's the type of thing that would bug me were I a Kings fan.
   1893. smileyy Posted: June 26, 2018 at 01:09 PM (#5699854)
The more I think about the the sadder I get about LeBron nearly breaking his hand after Game 1. I'm pretty sure that held him back from approaching something like a 40/10/10 line for the series, which would have been glorious to watch, even in a sweep.
   1894. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 26, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5699895)
IMO Dallas has a serious fit problem with Smith and Doncic. Doncic needs to see a lot of the ball with good off-ball players around him to fully utilize his genius. Smith is 100% an on-ball player. If I were Dallas, now that I have Doncic, I would be quietly looking for an opportunity to move Smith. It wouldn't shock me if they ended up moving him in a deal for a veteran star (probably not DeAndre, though).
   1895. jmurph Posted: June 26, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5699936)
If I were Dallas, now that I have Doncic, I would be quietly looking for an opportunity to move Smith.

I just think they're years from being competitive, and thus at least a year or two away from having to worry about that. No harm in seeing how it works this year before deciding anything.

Also Carlisle likes to play a lot of multi-ballhandler lineups, so he's probably excited about it.

Man digging into the Mavs numbers is depressing. There are very few teams in the league that have less talent than them.
   1896. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 26, 2018 at 02:32 PM (#5699940)
Considering the rumors of the Mavs going after DAJ and DMC - plus likely losing next year's 1st round pick - they're going to continue to be in the no man's land between rebuilding and being competitive. They've just made so many mistakes since winning the title.
   1897. JC in DC Posted: June 26, 2018 at 02:53 PM (#5699965)
IMO Dallas has a serious fit problem with Smith and Doncic. Doncic needs to see a lot of the ball with good off-ball players around him to fully utilize his genius.


You must have watched a ton of Doncic to draw such a definitive conclusion that he cannot coexist with Smith.
   1898. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 26, 2018 at 02:56 PM (#5699966)
To pull a stiggles

The Bulls’ undervalued Niko so much that they never even considered the possibility he’d ruin the tank. For three years, he was maddeningly inconsistent, a fever dream of pump fakes and poor shot selection, always better in theory than in reality. But when given real agency for the first time in his career, Mirotic turned into a star. With him in the lineup, the team that was 3-20 started winning at a pace that would have equaled 46 victories and the No. 5 seed in the East if spread out over the course of the entire season.

Mirotic is a top-50 player in this league, but the Bulls never realized it until Wade’s check had cleared and their draft pick was ruined. Yes, he fetched the Bulls the No. 22 pick that would eventually turn into Hutchison, but even that only happened after the Bulls ate another $16 million.

Mirotic will go down as one of the most frustrating players in franchise history, someone who was never good enough until the exact moment they stopped needing him to be good. Was that the Bulls’ fault or Mirotic’s? Regardless of how you answer that, the front office’s complete inability to properly evaluate their own player is going to impact this franchise for longer than anyone anticipated.


I don't know if I'd put Niko in the top 50, but he's a lot closer now than a year ago.
   1899. jmurph Posted: June 26, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5699983)
He really fell back to earth in New Orleans. I don't see any reason to believe that one hot shooting stretch for 25 games in Chicago is his new normal.
   1900. jmurph Posted: June 26, 2018 at 03:22 PM (#5699988)
Los Angeles Rams great Willie "FLIPper" Anderson
Page 19 of 35 pages ‹ First  < 17 18 19 20 21 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Phil Birnbaum
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

Sox TherapyHalfwayish Home
(11 - 10:41am, Jul 20)
Last: jmurph

NewsblogOTP 2018 July 16: Why Does President Trump Balk At Attending Baseball Games?
(1119 - 10:39am, Jul 20)
Last: dlf

NewsblogOT - 2018 NBA Summer Potpourri (finals, draft, free agency, Colangelo dragging)
(3479 - 10:39am, Jul 20)
Last: JJ1986

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (World Cup)
(3251 - 10:27am, Jul 20)
Last: ckash

NewsblogBBTF ANNUAL CENTRAL PARK SOFTBALL GAME 2018
(163 - 9:58am, Jul 20)
Last: catomi01

NewsblogIndians deal for ace reliever Brad Hand
(29 - 9:47am, Jul 20)
Last: snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster)

Gonfalon CubsLooking Forward
(41 - 9:11am, Jul 20)
Last: Andere Richtingen

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 7-19-2018
(36 - 5:42am, Jul 20)
Last: AndrewJ

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 7-18-2018
(25 - 12:35am, Jul 20)
Last: stevegamer

NewsblogIs one game really worth an OMNCHATTER! for July 19, 2018
(110 - 11:41pm, Jul 19)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogOT Gaming: October 2015
(802 - 11:39pm, Jul 19)
Last: PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina

Newsblog10 Years Ago, Two Trades Broke The Mold For MLB Deadline Deals
(18 - 10:33pm, Jul 19)
Last: Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams)

NewsblogRob Manfred: Mike Trout limits his popularity because he won't market himself
(94 - 8:21pm, Jul 19)
Last: What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face?

NewsblogManny Machado blockbuster makes Dodgers the NL's team to beat
(16 - 8:11pm, Jul 19)
Last: snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster)

NewsblogIs Chase Utley a Hall of Famer?
(71 - 2:17pm, Jul 19)
Last: this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant

Page rendered in 0.6733 seconds
46 querie(s) executed