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Wednesday, May 30, 2018

OT - 2018 NBA Summer Potpourri (finals, draft, free agency, Colangelo dragging)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  complaints about mayonnaise.


EDIT: image is shrunken. Mouse over to show full size. -vi

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: May 30, 2018 at 12:56 AM | 3814 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   201. JC in DC Posted: June 07, 2018 at 12:38 PM (#5687801)
Well, I was wrong if that all turns out to be true. Women!
   202. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 07, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5687809)
@ShamsCharania
In statement following resignation as 76ers president, Bryan Colangelo says: "I vigorously dispute the allegation that my conduct was in any way reckless. At no point did I ever
purposefully or directly share any sensitive, non-public, club-related information with her.
   203. JJ1986 Posted: June 07, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5687815)
I'll bet the Sixers look at Shane Battier and James Jones
   204. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:01 PM (#5687817)
Does anybody really believe it was all his wife's doing? Come on.
   205. Chicago Joe Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:03 PM (#5687818)
Barnes
Danny Green
Reggie Bullock
   206. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:10 PM (#5687823)
I'm more willing to believe that it was all his wife's doing than I am that he didn't share sensitive material with her.
   207. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:14 PM (#5687828)
I'll bet the Sixers look at Shane Battier and James Jones

not sure about jones, but battier might be worth a look.

the biggest issue is the time frame. whoever gets hired either has to be fully up to speed (with the draft, the league, the cap, sixers personnel) from day 1, or willing to defer a ton of responsibilities to people he didn't hire and may not have met before.

@imbeccable
colangelo’s wife did a factory reset of her iphone, but eric jr posted tweets from an android
   208. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:15 PM (#5687830)
Barnes
Danny Green
Reggie Bullock
bullock is one.

3 left:
1 guard, 1 wing, 1 big.
   209. aberg Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:16 PM (#5687831)
Does anybody really believe it was all his wife's doing? Come on.


I think it's possible that the actual posts (and thereby the publicizing of the information) were done exclusively by his wife and without his knowledge at the time. Even if that's true, there is a bunch of information in those posts that he should not be sharing outside of the org and he is responsible for anything that goes public. If he is sharing confidential team information with his wife, that's probably pretty standard, but if he is failing to make it clear that the information CANNOT go public or his job is on the line, then it's pretty clear that he's alone in that.

It's possible to read that as saying that he needs to keep his wife in check, but that's not what I'm getting at. What I'm saying is that he is liable for confidential information going public if he shares it with anyone, and he is therefore responsible for any loose lips down stream.
   210. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:18 PM (#5687832)
Philly is probably going to hold off on naming a new GM until they’ve offered LeBron the chance to pick who he wants, right?
   211. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5687833)
I think it's possible that the actual posts (and thereby the publicizing of the information) were done exclusively by his wife and without his knowledge at the time. Even if that's true, there is a bunch of information in those posts that he should not be sharing outside of the org and he is responsible for anything that goes public. If he is sharing confidential team information with his wife, that's probably pretty standard, but if he is failing to make it clear that the information CANNOT go public or his job is on the line, then it's pretty clear that he's alone in that.


I just don't buy it. Especially in light of #207. It's entirely ####### plausible that Colengelo, much like former Michigan AD Dave Brandon, is a complete idiot, despite wealth and a CEO/GM/AD gig, and cannot help making sock accounts online and taunting/responding to random fans online.

Maybe his wife knew about it, maybe she helped, maybe she even ran one or two of the accounts but FFS the primary mover here is a petty, in over his head, over-promoted idiot.
   212. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:25 PM (#5687839)
@KyleNeubeck
Sources tell PhillyVoice: Part of delay in Sixers process was due to pressure from Jerry Colangelo, who threatened to damage team relationships in the event Bryan was fired. https://t.co/0dWUPPtgBz

If true, they should can his ass too. What a joke.
   213. jmurph Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:33 PM (#5687845)
If true, they should can his ass too. What a joke.

Well, maybe tomorrow?
Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
"That's not today's issue," Harris says to @rich_hofmann's question of whether Jerry Colangelo will remain in his role as senior advisor.

   214. QLE Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5687848)
To each their own, but for me "rivalries" is just a fancy way of saying, "The same teams meeting up year after year", which as we're seeing with Warriors/Cavs, it can start to get old. Personally I think Lakers/Celtics and Yankees/Red Sox are the most boring match ups in sports.


It also doesn't help that that sort of thing isn't good for a sport- there's a convincing argument that part of why baseball lost popularity after WWII was because the World Series basically became the NYC city championship for a decade, the NCAA tournament notably only gained in popularity after its days of being the John Wooden Invitational were over, and that the NBA was kind of on the fringes as a popular sport in the era when it was the Celtics beating whoever was currently employing Wilt Chamberlain every year.
   215. Oriole Tragic is too lit to play in NYC Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5687849)
Did Richard Jefferson go to UNC?
   216. aberg Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5687853)
Did Richard Jefferson go to UNC?


Arizona. Maybe we can do them next.
   217. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: June 07, 2018 at 01:53 PM (#5687866)

It also doesn't help that that sort of thing isn't good for a sport- there's a convincing argument that part of why baseball lost popularity after WWII was because the World Series basically became the NYC city championship for a decade, the NCAA tournament notably only gained in popularity after its days of being the John Wooden Invitational were over, and that the NBA was kind of on the fringes as a popular sport in the era when it was the Celtics beating whoever was currently employing Wilt Chamberlain every year.

Isn't this more because the same team was winning every year? I feel like when there's a real rivalry, like Celtics-Lakers in the 80s, or even when there's a dynasty but they occasionally lose, sports actually do quite well. The problem is that Cleveland has not made it close the last two years.
   218. smileyy Posted: June 07, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5687880)
The problem is that Cleveland has not made it close the last two years.


I don't think the problem is Cleveland.

It's funny how adding a top-5 player to a team that already had a top-5, 2 more top-20 and another top-50 player really affected the competitiveness of the Finals. I'm having more and more negative feelings about Durant to the Warriors. Durant-less Warriors vs. Cavs would have been two good Finals the last two years.
   219. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 07, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5687881)
I'm more willing to believe that it was all his wife's doing than I am that he didn't share sensitive material with her.


Agreed. The tweets seem just a little weird to be from him personally. You could easily imagine being in his position and venting online and arguing with people and trying to get attention by hinting at inside information. You would periodically think "If this is made public, I'll look like an arsehole" but keep doing it.

But when you start typing "I know Bryan and he's a class act" or "Actually his shirts are the height of fashion", I think you start getting nervous and think "If this is made public, I'll look like a pathetic loser".

Aside from the other evidence, the accounts following elite Toronto lifestyle mavens and people who tweet in Italian, the general lack of interest in actual basketball, etc.

And of course he should go. Letting any family member in on this private information should be a firing offense. It is for anyone below his level.
   220. jmurph Posted: June 07, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5687882)
Anthony Slater @anthonyVslater
LeBron asked what makes the Warriors defense unique: “Draymond”
   221. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 07, 2018 at 02:19 PM (#5687883)
Warriors/Cavs is of course getting old and actual basketball fans don't like it, but isn't that normally outweighed by people who are not basketball fans tuning in in large numbers?
   222. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: June 07, 2018 at 02:44 PM (#5687890)

I don't think the problem is Cleveland.

It's funny how adding a top-5 player to a team that already had a top-5, 2 more top-20 and another top-50 player really affected the competitiveness of the Finals. I'm having more and more negative feelings about Durant to the Warriors. Durant-less Warriors vs. Cavs would have been two good Finals the last two years.


A Durant-less Warriors probably wouldn't have gotten past Houston this year, but yeah I know what you mean.

Part of this is just a result of the two best teams being in the West, which has happened a number of times before.
   223. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 07, 2018 at 02:45 PM (#5687891)
I don't know what the actual ratings are, but I would think that by now even the non-basketball fans feel like they've watched this movie before.
   224. Booey Posted: June 07, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5687898)
Part of this is just a result of the two best teams being in the West, which has happened a number of times before.


It happens more often than not in the past couple decades. The WCF loser has had a better record than the EC winner in 15 of the 20 post MJ Finals. Exceptions were 2008, 2009, 2011, 2013, and 2016.*

* TBF, that number is boosted by the West loser being better (by record) every year from 1999-2007. It's slowed down to 50/50 in the last decade.
   225. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 07, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5687915)
there were 19 active NBA players from UNC in 2018. i'll spot you vince carter and raymond felton.

name the other 17.
here's the final answer.
   226. yo la tengo Posted: June 07, 2018 at 04:11 PM (#5687935)
I would bet that there is a decent list of former Gators these days. Certainly not 19 but I would not be surprised if it were around 10
   227. SteveF Posted: June 07, 2018 at 04:15 PM (#5687941)
There's eight.

Edit: BB-Ref has nine.
   228. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: June 07, 2018 at 04:15 PM (#5687942)
Travis Wear is cheating, since he graduated from UCLA. Should have picked up on Bradley.







   229. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: June 07, 2018 at 04:52 PM (#5687970)
How transient you think this problem is depends on whether you think the Eastern Conference's relative lack of competitiveness is structural or transitory.

I haven't seen anyone try to explain why the West has been so dominant; until that is understood, the problem (such as it is) should be treated as transient.
   230. Booey Posted: June 07, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5687973)
I haven't seen anyone try to explain why the West has been so dominant; until that is understood, the problem (such as it is) should be treated as transient.


Even if it's been that way for 20 years now? (and doesn't look likely to change anytime soon)

Seeding the playoffs 1-16 could be a permanent solution, unlike re-alignment which would have to keep happening every few years.
   231. SteveF Posted: June 07, 2018 at 05:08 PM (#5687978)
Draft order is determined by record/playoffs. If the schedules are unbalanced you have teams in the west consistently picking higher in the draft than their team quality would otherwise dictate. Recent (and future) changes in the draft lottery could make this effect stronger.

There's also the obvious positive feedback loop with free agency. Free agents prefer to go to better teams.

And there's the issue of geography. Western conference teams have better weather (on average) in the winter. That impacts free agent decisions as well.
   232. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 07, 2018 at 06:29 PM (#5687999)
I offered to draft for my Bucks in the old thread but it was in the middle of spirited Colangelo discussion so I'm not surprised it got lost, and then I went camping for a week so I wasn't able to chime in until now. I'll still draft for them if stevegamer wants to switch to another team, or I can sit this one out. I don't mind much either way.

Taking the liberty of assigning some of the volunteers to teams who I don't think will otherwise get taken quickly. Feel free to overrule if someone else wants one of these teams.

BTF 2018 MOCK DRAFT:

FIRST ROUND
1. Suns - Oriole Tragic
2. Kings - smileyy
3. Hawks - Der-K
4. Grizzlies
5. Mavericks
6. Magic - Athletic Supporter
7. Bulls - Moses
8. Cavs
9. Knicks - NJ/JC
10. 76ers - 57i66135
11. Hornets - Berg
12. Clippers
13. Clippers
14. Nuggets - Dandy
15. Wizards - Votto
16. Suns - Oriole Tragic
17. Bucks - stevegamer
18. Spurs
19. Hawks - Der-K
20. Timberwolves - Mouse
21. Jazz
22. Bulls - Moses
23. Pacers - Paste
24. Trailblazers
25. Lakers - Hombre/rr
26. 76ers - 57i66135
27. Celtics - MHS
28. Warriors - sardonic
29. Nets - JJ1986
30. Hawks - Der-K

SECOND ROUND
31. Suns - Oriole Tragic
32. Grizzlies
33. Mavericks
34. Hawks - Der-K
35. Magic - Athletic Supporter
36. Knicks - NJ/JC
37. Kings - smileyy
38. 76ers - 57i66135
39. 76ers - 57i66135
40. Nets - JJ1986
41. Magic - Athletic Supporter
42. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless
43. Nuggets - Dandy
44. Wizards -Votto
45. Nets - JJ1986
46. Rockets
47. Lakers - Hombre/rr
48. Timberwolves - Mouse
49. Spurs
50. Pacers - Paste
51. Pelicans
52. Jazz
53. Thunder
54. Mavericks
55. Hornets - Berg
56. 76ers - 57i66135
57. Thunder
58. Nuggets - Dandy
59. Suns - Oriole Tragic
60. 76ers - 57i66135
   233. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: June 07, 2018 at 08:11 PM (#5688048)

Seeding the playoffs 1-16 could be a permanent solution, unlike re-alignment which would have to keep happening every few years.

But my point is that neither is required. I do not think that there is a structural reason for the West's dominance over the last twenty years.

If one wants to level the playing field, I would think that tax harmonization would be a better place to start than playoff seeding.
   234. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: June 07, 2018 at 08:20 PM (#5688050)
Then again, I am notoriously Tory in my sensibilities when it comes to sports, so take with appropriate measure of salt.
   235. Howie Menckel Posted: June 07, 2018 at 09:15 PM (#5688083)
saw the last 5 minutes of "Celebrity Family Feud" just now

apparently it featured Kareem's family against Ralph Sampson's family. I wonder how many 7-footers turned this down before the Sampsons (THE SAMPSONS!) accepted.

anyway, no one on this thread has as little body fat as 57-year-old Ralph
   236. nick swisher hygiene Posted: June 07, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5688085)
That Tar Heel active team......suuuucks.

Who do you start? Go small with Ed Davis, Barnes, two of Green/Ellington/Bullock. and Felton/Paige? Maybe some young guys develop, and I remain convinced Brice Johnson is at worst a useful.bench scorer on even a good team...but stilll. Those 18 guys are not a good roster.

   237. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: June 07, 2018 at 09:23 PM (#5688091)
Those 18 guys are not a good roster.

"Quantity has a quality all its own."
   238. nick swisher hygiene Posted: June 07, 2018 at 09:31 PM (#5688096)
####, there are 19 (nineteen) active Dookies!
   239. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 07, 2018 at 09:35 PM (#5688102)
@Patrick_Fenelon
You know what’s bad for the nba? The finals only lasting 4 games. Ratings don’t mean #### when that happens. The short series last year is why cap shrunk. Seriously...this is a problem



That Tar Heel active team......suuuucks.

Who do you start? Go small with Ed Davis, Barnes, two of Green/Ellington/Bullock. and Felton/Paige? Maybe some young guys develop, and I remain convinced Brice Johnson is at worst a useful.bench scorer on even a good team...but stilll. Those 18 guys are not a good roster.

that's kind of why i brought it up. i don't think there are any top 100 players from UNC in the NBA right now.
   240. nick swisher hygiene Posted: June 07, 2018 at 09:37 PM (#5688104)
Yeah, I think they lose a 7-game series to the Dook alums.

Unless we can assume Kyrie is hurt?

& Okafor is healthy?
   241. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: June 07, 2018 at 09:51 PM (#5688117)
Rodney Hood
Jahlil
Tyus jones
Justice Winslow
Kyrie
Quinn Cook
Singler
Jabari
Tatum
Luke Kenard
Redick
2 or 3 Plumlees (I think Marshall got into at least one game)

Is Dahntay Jones still on a roster?

   242. tshipman Posted: June 07, 2018 at 09:59 PM (#5688121)
I don't think the problem is Cleveland.

It's funny how adding a top-5 player to a team that already had a top-5, 2 more top-20 and another top-50 player really affected the competitiveness of the Finals. I'm having more and more negative feelings about Durant to the Warriors. Durant-less Warriors vs. Cavs would have been two good Finals the last two years.


1. I think Cleveland is absolutely a problem. They've gotten just so much worse on defense since 2016. They were a top 10 defense in 2016! They were 29th this year, which is basically last because the Kings aren't an NBA team. The Warriors are worse than last year, but the Cavs have degraded more.
2. I think Toronto is the other problem. They really should have been the team from the East, but they are just like pathologically incapable of showing up in the playoffs.

***

I'll take some team no one else wants. Grizzlies, Mavericks, Clippers, whatevs.
   243. KronicFatigue Posted: June 07, 2018 at 10:19 PM (#5688129)
This might sound like asking Ms Lincoln how the rest of the play was, but can we waive away some of the West Coast dominance by saying it's just because of the Lakers, Spurs, and Warriors dynasties? You know, besides those three teams, has the WC really been that dominant? Yes the Lakers are the West Coast Lakers, who get free agents in part because of their location, weather, Hollywood, etc etc. But the Spurs have none of that. The Spurs have a once in a generation coach and the Robinson-->Duncan lottery situation can't be replicated. Likewise, I think the Warriors situation can't be replicated easily. They have star players who buy into a team system (incluing pay cuts) in a way that is extremely rare.

Yes the WC has had better regular season records, top to bottom, as well. But does that really matter if our focus is on disappointing finals? Since '99 those 3 teams have been the WC representative for all but 3 years (2 Mavericks, and 1 Thunder, neither of which are west-coast-y)

EDIT: and just to #### on my Knicks a little, the #1 market being incompetently run for so long can't help the situation. Is there any other sport where the franchise that SHOULD be #1 almost never holds up their end of the bargain?
   244. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 07, 2018 at 10:37 PM (#5688145)
EDIT: and just to #### on my Knicks a little, the #1 market being incompetently run for so long can't help the situation. Is there any other sport where the franchise that SHOULD be #1 almost never holds up their end of the bargain?
cubs (until 2016)
red sox (until 2004)
penn state wrestling (until about 10 years ago)
lsu football (until nick saban)
maple leaves (still going strong!!)
   245. nick swisher hygiene Posted: June 07, 2018 at 10:46 PM (#5688148)
241–All three Plumlii are indeed active! You missed Ingram, Rivers, Deng, and McRoberts......
   246. PJ Martinez Posted: June 07, 2018 at 10:51 PM (#5688150)
I think 243 makes a good point about the Knicks (and I don't think any of the teams in 244 are particularly comparable).
   247. KronicFatigue Posted: June 07, 2018 at 10:52 PM (#5688152)
Cubs, Redsox and Leafs all have above .500 records. The Knicks have a losing record!! Also, I don't think anyone could argue that the Cubs or Sox SHOULD be the best franchise in baseball. I don't know how one would go about measuring something like that, but don't the Yankees and Dodgers comfortably have that title by any conceivable measure?

The only 3 NBA teams with any right to claim that are the Lakers, Celtics or Knicks. The Celtics history makes them top dog in the east. But there's no excuse for the Knicks to not be right there. They can't claim a split market (like the Mets, for example).

Isn't it rumored that the NBA cheated to let the Knicks get Ewing? The Knicks being a dominant franchise would be a license to print money. But they're not living up to their end of it.
   248. Oriole Tragic is too lit to play in NYC Posted: June 07, 2018 at 11:14 PM (#5688157)
Athletic Supporter, please disregard my BBTF email. We can revisit a deal when you are ready once the draft starts.
   249. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 07, 2018 at 11:32 PM (#5688160)
The Sixers fans on Twitter have done a pretty good job of dissecting every angle of this. I can't really pinpoint anything they've missed. It couldn't have happened to a more passionate or wackier fan base, and I say that lovingly.

...I'm wondering if someone might hack into an NBA team's scouting database someday (like what happened with the Houston Astros) and put everything out, similar to what we saw with the Atlanta Hawks/Luol Deng situation. That could get ugly.

...Given the amount of confidential information teams hold and the ease of posting on social media, more scandals are probably inevitable.

... It doesn't appear that Colangelo was all that popular with the roster anyway, especially considering the circumstances in which he was hired. The face of the franchise still tweets props to former GM Sam Hinkie, for crying out loud. The Sixers have largely handled a bizarre, impossible-to-anticipate situation pretty well.

...despite the scandal with Bryan Colangelo, there is stability with the recent extension of Brett Brown and 12 players under contract.

...any player thinking about joining the Sixers was going to do so because of Brett Brown and the potential of playing with Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid, not Bryan Colangelo.

link
   250. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 07, 2018 at 11:35 PM (#5688161)
I think 243 makes a good point about the Knicks (and I don't think any of the teams in 244 are particularly comparable).


The Maple Leafs were very much the Knicks of the NHL for about 10-15 years, but they finally turned it around a couple years ago. Now the Knicks stand alone.
   251. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 07, 2018 at 11:57 PM (#5688166)
putting aside the ruckus brought about the anonymous accounts, Colangelo’s tenure was quite forgettable: His best decision was to keep Brown as head coach, and the addition of Ringer podcaster J.J. Redick was savvy. But he botched solving the Noel-Okafor frontcourt logjam, hasn’t made any other notable signings or non-lottery draft picks, and dealt the draft pick used on Jayson Tatum and a future first from the Kings to the Celtics to trade up to no. 1 for Fultz.

link


that article also kicked up these nuggets from before the sixers traded for fultz:
Fultz just went 4-for-18 shooting 3s in around-the-world format.
— Tom Moore (@TomMoorePhilly) June 18, 2017
Fultz struggled to hit his 3-point shots consistently in drill. Have to wonder if he's feeling effects of the trip here.
— Jessica Camerato (@JCameratoNBCS) June 18, 2017
Fultz from beyond arc
pic.twitter.com/TrB2P9nHBr
— Jon Johnson (@jonjohnsonwip) June 18, 2017
   252. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 08, 2018 at 01:17 AM (#5688172)
@RealMattCarey
Woj: What I heard around the league today was a lot of good GMs in good jobs calling their agents seeing if there's a way out of their contracts. "Everybody wants the Sixers job."
   253. maccoach57 Posted: June 08, 2018 at 01:35 AM (#5688173)
Yep. If LBJ heads west, he'll just get to lose to the Warriors a round or two earlier.


If James' top priority is taking out the Curry/Durant Warriors, then he will focus on Houston. If his priority is getting to the Finals out of the East, then he will focus on Philadelphia. If he has other priorities, then I could see him focusing on Miami or Los Angeles, or even staying in Cleveland if they can get a second star.
   254. Sean Forman Posted: June 08, 2018 at 01:59 AM (#5688174)
God, I am so relieved/happy Colangelo is gone. Phew.
   255. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:27 AM (#5688177)
It's hard for me to see James going back to Cleveland. They're locked into a backcourt group of Hill, Korver, Clarkson, and Smith for $53.78 million next season... and then all four are still under contract for two years from now. I have a hard time believing James wants to come back for another year or two of that noise.
   256. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: June 08, 2018 at 06:18 AM (#5688182)
Even if it's been that way for 20 years now? (and doesn't look likely to change anytime soon)


Between 1982 and 1987, the NFC went 15-1 in Super Bowls. That followed a 13-4 stretch by the AFC.
   257. Thok Posted: June 08, 2018 at 06:55 AM (#5688183)
I'm willing to pick for any team that isn't the Thunder and doesn't yet have somebody slotted for them. Of the teams with first rounders still available as of posts 63/232, my preference is Clippers>Mavs>Grizzlies>Cavs>Jazz>Spurs.
   258. JJ1986 Posted: June 08, 2018 at 09:02 AM (#5688219)
Assigning a few more people and updating the list a bit. If stevegamer wants the Cavs, Spurs or Blazers, then Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw can take the Bucks. I think we can start without the Pels, Thunder and Rockets being assigned or maybe have someone draft for all three.


BTF 2018 MOCK DRAFT:

FIRST ROUND
1. Suns - Oriole Tragic
2. Kings - smileyy
3. Hawks - Der-K
4. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball
5. Mavericks - tshipman
6. Magic - Athletic Supporter
7. Bulls - Moses
8. Cavs
9. Knicks - NJ/JC
10. 76ers - 57i66135
11. Hornets - Berg
12. Clippers - Thok
13. Clippers - Thok
14. Nuggets - Dandy
15. Wizards - Votto
16. Suns - Oriole Tragic
17. Bucks - stevegamer
18. Spurs
19. Hawks - Der-K
20. Timberwolves - Mouse
21. Jazz
22. Bulls - Moses
23. Pacers - Paste
24. Trailblazers
25. Lakers - Hombre/rr
26. 76ers - 57i66135
27. Celtics - MHS
28. Warriors - sardonic
29. Nets - JJ1986
30. Hawks - Der-K

SECOND ROUND
31. Suns - Oriole Tragic
32. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball
33. Mavericks - tshipman
34. Hawks - Der-K
35. Magic - Athletic Supporter
36. Knicks - NJ/JC
37. Kings - smileyy
38. 76ers - 57i66135
39. 76ers - 57i66135
40. Nets - JJ1986
41. Magic - Athletic Supporter
42. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless
43. Nuggets - Dandy
44. Wizards -Votto
45. Nets - JJ1986
46. Rockets
47. Lakers - Hombre/rr
48. Timberwolves - Mouse
49. Spurs
50. Pacers - Paste
51. Pelicans
52. Jazz
53. Thunder
54. Mavericks - tshipman
55. Hornets - Berg
56. 76ers - 57i66135
57. Thunder
58. Nuggets - Dandy
59. Suns - Oriole Tragic
60. 76ers - 57i66135
   259. jmurph Posted: June 08, 2018 at 09:33 AM (#5688229)
It's hard for me to see James going back to Cleveland. They're locked into a backcourt group of Hill, Korver, Clarkson, and Smith for $53.78 million next season... and then all four are still under contract for two years from now. I have a hard time believing James wants to come back for another year or two of that noise.

God those deadline deals were disastrous: didn't help the team this year, hurt them going forward.

It's amazing now to think about how much praise Cleveland got at the time for rebuilding on the fly.
   260. Rally Posted: June 08, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5688235)
Between 1982 and 1987, the NFC went 15-1 in Super Bowls.


Those were the good ol' days with multiple Super Bowls every year.
   261. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 08, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5688267)
The XFL and whatever Ebersol's league is called will be here soon enough.
   262. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 08, 2018 at 10:37 AM (#5688277)
I'll take one of one of Spurs-Cavs-Jazz if nobody else wants them.
   263. Oriole Tragic is too lit to play in NYC Posted: June 08, 2018 at 10:39 AM (#5688279)
@SSR I think some part of BooeyCervo have the Jazz. Cavs at #8 seem interesting. Wondering who they should take there IRL.
   264. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: June 08, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5688286)

Those were the good ol' days with multiple Super Bowls every year.


1997.
   265. Rally Posted: June 08, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5688298)
They can't claim a split market (like the Mets, for example).


Why not? Nets are less than 10 miles away, which I'm sure is totally drivable in under 4 hours at least on good days.

Not that a split market really matters given the salary cap. Knicks are crap because of incompetence. It's not an epic incompetence, like it would be if the Yankees or Dodgers averaged 75 wins for a decade or two. But they are below average in running the basketball team. Salary cap is very effective in the NFL and NBA in allowing cities like OKC, or Portland, or Green Bay to have about as much chance to succeed as NYC.

NYC could potentially offer a player more endorsement opportunities, that could be the market's advantage. Problem is that advantage only attracted Carmelo Anthony, not a legitimate difference maker like LeBron or Durant. Carmelo has had a fine career, but having him around doesn't win you any more games than having say, David West or Paul Millsap. Carmelo gets to be richer and more famous than they are thanks to playing in NYC. Someone like LeBron doesn't need NYC to get the biggest endorsement opportunities and fame. Basketball is primarily marketed to a global TV audience. If LeBron is the best player and going to the finals every year it doesn't matter what city name is on his uniform.

   266. Booey Posted: June 08, 2018 at 11:09 AM (#5688304)
They can't claim a split market (like the Mets, for example).


The Nets.

But for all the talk you hear sometimes about how it's good for the league when the biggest markets are successful, it doesn't really seem to matter as much in the NBA. It's a star driven league, and guys like LeBron or Durant/Westbrook are going to draw eyeballs even when they play for Cleveland or OKC. Ratings have been just fine lately even with the Lakers being bad for 5 years now, and the Knicks being mostly bad for the last 15+. Ratings were fine in the 90's when the Celtics were mostly bad. They were fine in the 2000's when the Bulls were mostly bad.

Between 1982 and 1987, the NFC went 15-1 in Super Bowls. That followed a 13-4 stretch by the AFC.


And unlike re-alignment, simply seeding the playoff teams 1-16 would have a built in fix for this problem if the balance of power ever shifts back like that (like the way the East was the dominant conference back in the '80's. The West had Showtime and not much else).

I'll take one of one of Spurs-Cavs-Jazz if nobody else wants them
.

I'll try again to not embarrass the Jazz if Tom doesn't want them. I'll be out of town for a few days next week though, so it depends on when we start and how far along we are.
   267. jmurph Posted: June 08, 2018 at 11:11 AM (#5688308)
It's an untestable hypothesis but I feel pretty strongly that the Knicks would be a big player draw if they were run competently.
   268. Rally Posted: June 08, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5688324)
God those deadline deals were disastrous: didn't help the team this year, hurt them going forward.


I don't know. Put back Wade, Crowder, Shumpert, Rose, and Thomas in place of the guys they traded for and maybe the Cavs don't make it through the EC playoffs.

   269. Booey Posted: June 08, 2018 at 11:22 AM (#5688325)
It's an untestable hypothesis but I feel pretty strongly that the Knicks would be a big player draw if they were run competently.


Agreed. They got Melo and Amare back when they were considered top 15-ish players, and that's without even being a contender. They were able to pick up guys like LJ, Sprewell, and Marbury back when they were somewhat of a big deal.

The problem, of course, is that none of those players were really as good as their reputation. Off the top of my head, I'd guess that the Knicks have had more overrated players than any other team during my almost 30 years of fandom (Throw Starks onto that list, too. Steve Francis, Derrick Rose, etc).

Understatement of the year, but they just seem to be really bad at talent evaluation.
   270. JC in DC Posted: June 08, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5688342)
Starks was not overrated, just a phenomenon. He was good for what he was: former grocery bagger with a ton of athleticism and intensity. Can't fault the outcome; he was what he was. There was a period, post-Patrick, where they were just collecting names. What's his name, the former Indiana guy, had them headed in the right direction, but they blew it. We'll see if these new guys have any clothing, or are more of the same.
   271. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 08, 2018 at 12:05 PM (#5688355)
God those deadline deals were disastrous: didn't help the team this year, hurt them going forward.

It's amazing now to think about how much praise Cleveland got at the time for rebuilding on the fly.


The praise made sense. They got rid of unhappy declining players, and got younger, promising players who seemed happy as role players. They got rid of Isaiah Thomas and Jae Crowder, who had turned into the two worst players in the league somehow, probably the Cavs' fault but it had to be dealt with. They were "hurt going forward" because they now they have contract commitments to Hill, Clarkson, Hood and Nance, but they were just going to sign more elderly players with that money anyway as long as LeBron is around. They traded their first-round pick, but it's #29, right?

Most of this makes sense only because it compensates for mistakes elsewhere, but it does make sense.
   272. JC in DC Posted: June 08, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5688366)
[re 270]: I had to do a hit and run on that post. John Starks is one of my all-time favorite players. There was a kind of basketball purity to John: everything was all out there, all the time; the good and the bad, the intelligent, and the stupid, the great and the awful. His story (which most of you know) is probably not an uncommon story for young black men in the US, but his perseverance is uncommon. The NBA at that time was populated by hot-headed guys (think Vernon "Mad Max" Maxwell as another example), and John was one of those as well. But he gave everything he had. You could see the desperation in every attack, every shot, every defensive play: he took none of it for granted. I love that guy.
   273. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 08, 2018 at 12:40 PM (#5688376)
They were "hurt going forward" because they now they have contract commitments to Hill, Clarkson, Hood and Nance, but they were just going to sign more elderly players with that money anyway as long as LeBron is around. They traded their first-round pick, but it's #29, right?

Most of this makes sense only because it compensates for mistakes elsewhere, but it does make sense.
I wonder how much of what didn't work is institutional in the sense that, as wonderful a player as Lebron is, we've now had plenty of testimony about how playing with him demands a serious adjustment from the players around him — guys who need the ball in their hands won't get it now, and their catch-and-shoot guys are getting older and not as effectively moving without the ball. Their interior defense is always somewhat compromised because of Love. The learning curve is steep, and maybe impossibly so when thrown together mid-season, and perhaps those pressures have kept them from being a more cohesive unit. I dunno, just spitballing. Hill, Clarkson, and Hood are good offensive players, they shouldn't be this bad around Lebron. Maybe next year, they won't be.
   274. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 08, 2018 at 12:45 PM (#5688379)
The simplest deal would be trading LeBron for Hayward, Marcus Morris, and a first-round pick. Cleveland, as much as they might hate to trade LeBron within their conference, would have to do it. If Hayward returns at 100 percent from his ankle injury, he would be their new franchise player, and a team built around Hayward and Kevin Love would immediately be relevant in the Eastern Conference.


never go FULL SIMMONS
   275. jmurph Posted: June 08, 2018 at 12:52 PM (#5688382)
Hill, Clarkson, and Hood are good offensive players

The only one of these three I'm certain is good (as in, solidly above average) is Hill (when healthy). The other two have plusses and minuses like lots of guys, but I think "good" is a bit much. Clarkson doesn't even shoot the 3 well, something that is a must on that team. And Hood and Clarkson are also terrible defenders, on a team full of that kind of player.
   276. jmurph Posted: June 08, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5688383)
never go FULL SIMMONS

Couldn't decide whether that or this was the better STIGGLES troll:
@ZakKondratenko
here’s a wild stat

Joel Embiid, who was taken in the 2014 draft, has played 145 FEWER career NBA minutes than Jayson Tatum (including playoffs)
   277. Booey Posted: June 08, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5688396)
If James' top priority is taking out the Curry/Durant Warriors, then he will focus on Houston. If his priority is getting to the Finals out of the East, then he will focus on Philadelphia


Or Boston, if that Stiggles article comes to pass. ;-)

As a spiteful Jazz fan, I'm all in for the Celtics trading Hayward to a LeBron-less Cavs team. And hey, it's not all bad; he could reunite with buddies George Hill and Rodney Hood and battle new teammate Kevin Love for the Mokeski award every year!

(In reality though, it would be pretty cold for the C's to deal Hayward, and teaming Irving back up with LBJ might not work out so well...)
   278. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 08, 2018 at 01:23 PM (#5688398)
I've seen a couple articles use the IT trade as evidence that Ainge is ice cold. There's something to that, but it's one thing to get out from under IT as his hip crumbles, and another to do that, flip Hayward after his Hallmark reunion with Stevens imploded and prior to a redo, and screw over Kyrie by reuniting him with the dude he fled. I don't see how an exec could do all three of those and ever be trusted by a free agent again.
   279. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 08, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5688401)
[re 270]: I had to do a hit and run on that post. John Starks is one of my all-time favorite players. There was a kind of basketball purity to John: everything was all out there, all the time; the good and the bad, the intelligent, and the stupid, the great and the awful. His story (which most of you know) is probably not an uncommon story for young black men in the US, but his perseverance is uncommon. The NBA at that time was populated by hot-headed guys (think Vernon "Mad Max" Maxwell as another example), and John was one of those as well. But he gave everything he had. You could see the desperation in every attack, every shot, every defensive play: he took none of it for granted. I love that guy.

Starks will also be one of my top answers to the question I like to ask about the most hated rival player that later ends up playing for one of your teams. Him, Probert, and Jim Edmonds (though the Edmonds Cubs experience was surprisingly fun) are my top 3.
   280. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 08, 2018 at 01:36 PM (#5688408)
You could see the desperation in every attack, every shot, every defensive play: he took none of it for granted. I love that guy.


As a Philly guy, I wanted to hate Starks, but I couldn't.
   281. Booey Posted: June 08, 2018 at 01:38 PM (#5688410)
I've seen a couple articles use the IT trade as evidence that Ainge is ice cold. There's something to that, but it's one thing to get out from under IT as his hip crumbles, and another to do that, flip Hayward after his Hallmark reunion with Stevens imploded and prior to a redo, and screw over Kyrie by reuniting him with the dude he fled. I don't see how an exec could do all three of those and ever be trusted by a free agent again.


That's what I think too. I get wanting to build the best possible team, at any cost, but at some point you need to show some loyalty to your players if you want them to stick around or are planning on trying to entice new ones to join up.
   282. KronicFatigue Posted: June 08, 2018 at 02:10 PM (#5688416)
What I meant by Mets/Nets is that the Mets get a semi pass because they're secondary to the Yankees. The Nets (presuming you qualify their NJ past as same market as Knicks) are secondary to Knicks. They can use the Knicks as an excuse, but the Knicks can't do the same.
   283. Rally Posted: June 08, 2018 at 02:13 PM (#5688419)
I had to do a hit and run on that post. John Starks is one of my all-time favorite players. There was a kind of basketball purity to John: everything was all out there, all the time; the good and the bad, the intelligent, and the stupid, the great and the awful. His story (which most of you know) is probably not an uncommon story for young black men in the US, but his perseverance is uncommon. The NBA at that time was populated by hot-headed guys (think Vernon "Mad Max" Maxwell as another example), and John was one of those as well. But he gave everything he had. You could see the desperation in every attack, every shot, every defensive play: he took none of it for granted. I love that guy.


Unlike some people here, I was around to watch Starks his whole career. I concur with the assessment, but I don't know what you mean by "not an uncommon story for young black men in the US". I just know that he was an underdog, an undrafted player, who made a nice career for himself. You look at his stat line and see a low percentage gunner, and it doesn't look that different from guys like Francis or Marbury, especially their time with the Knicks. Two big differences: 1. Starks played with the great all around effort. 2. Those guys were high lottery picks, what they became in the NBA looks like a disappointment. Starks is a guy nobody ever expected would be there, hang around as long as he did, and help his team to get as far as they did in the playoffs.

I was rooting for the Bulls at the time, but the iconic Starks dunk was incredibly cool for a bit. A real David and Goliath type story. That was 25 years ago. If you have not seen it, just YouTube "Starks Dunk" and it will take you right to it.
   284. It's TFTIO's Monster, Actually Posted: June 08, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5688442)
As a fan of beautiful basketball, I hated those NYK teams, but I always rooted for Starks.
   285. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 08, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5688448)
I was never a fan of Starks, but respected the effort and he was a much better playmaker and defender than your average gunner. The league was a better place with him in it (before he got old and terrible).
   286. aberg Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5688459)
Starks will also be one of my top answers to the question I like to ask about the most hated rival player that later ends up playing for one of your teams.


Mark Madsen, 100%

AJ Pierzynski did the opposite- I liked him on my team before he became a hated rival.
   287. jmurph Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:27 PM (#5688479)
Starks will also be one of my top answers to the question I like to ask about the most hated rival player that later ends up playing for one of your teams.

I don't think I hated Kyrie but I certainly spent a lot of time criticizing him before Boston traded for him.
   288. Booey Posted: June 08, 2018 at 04:08 PM (#5688535)
I never liked Mark Jackson or Derek Fisher...and then I disliked them even more after their seasons with the Jazz.

I was glad when they waived Derrick Rose so I didn't have to cheer for him.
   289. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 08, 2018 at 04:26 PM (#5688551)
I'll try again to not embarrass the Jazz if Tom doesn't want them. I'll be out of town for a few days next week though, so it depends on when we start and how far along we are.


I'm currently out of town but go home tomorrow, so I'd be happy to use my zero knowledge of college basketball for the Jazz. Also using this trip to see Yankees in person for the first time in years (and first time ever at Citi), and apparently Donovan Mitchell will be there too. <3

Starks will also be one of my top answers to the question I like to ask about the most hated rival player that later ends up playing for one of your teams.


Hmmm, maybe Kevin Youkilis for me. Like Booey I disliked Jackson and Fisher much more after their Jazz stints.
   290. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 08, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5688560)
okay, here's my thoughts on the sixers potentially rehiring sam hinkie:

it's not gonna happen. and it shouldn't. the trust between hinkie and ownership has been irreparably broken, so while the idea is good for a chuckle, it would be a terrible foundation for the organization.
   291. aberg Posted: June 08, 2018 at 04:52 PM (#5688561)
BTF 2018 MOCK DRAFT:

FIRST ROUND
1. Suns - Oriole Tragic
2. Kings - smileyy
3. Hawks - Der-K
4. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball
5. Mavericks - tshipman
6. Magic - Athletic Supporter
7. Bulls - Moses
8. Cavs - stevegamer
9. Knicks - NJ/JC
10. 76ers - 57i66135
11. Hornets - Berg
12. Clippers - Thok
13. Clippers - Thok
14. Nuggets - Dandy
15. Wizards - Votto
16. Suns - Oriole Tragic
17. Bucks - Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw
18. Spurs - SouthSideRyan
19. Hawks - Der-K
20. Timberwolves - Mouse
21. Jazz - Booey/Cervo
22. Bulls - Moses
23. Pacers - Paste
24. Trailblazers
25. Lakers - Hombre/rr
26. 76ers - 57i66135
27. Celtics - MHS
28. Warriors - sardonic
29. Nets - JJ1986
30. Hawks - Der-K

SECOND ROUND
31. Suns - Oriole Tragic
32. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball
33. Mavericks - tshipman
34. Hawks - Der-K
35. Magic - Athletic Supporter
36. Knicks - NJ/JC
37. Kings - smileyy
38. 76ers - 57i66135
39. 76ers - 57i66135
40. Nets - JJ1986
41. Magic - Athletic Supporter
42. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless
43. Nuggets - Dandy
44. Wizards -Votto
45. Nets - JJ1986
46. Rockets
47. Lakers - Hombre/rr
48. Timberwolves - Mouse
49. Spurs - SouthSideRyan
50. Pacers - Paste
51. Pelicans
52. Jazz - Booey/Cervo
53. Thunder
54. Mavericks - tshipman
55. Hornets - Berg
56. 76ers - 57i66135
57. Thunder
58. Nuggets - Dandy
59. Suns - Oriole Tragic
60. 76ers - 57i66135

Updating to move stevegamer to the Cavs at 8 so Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw (love that handle) gets the Bucks. Also giving the Spurs to SouthSideRyan. That fills out the first round, so if we want to start over the weekend, I see no reason why we couldn't.

The unclaimed teams have only second rounders- Rockets, Thunder, Pelicans. If anyone wants to volunteer for them (including people who already have a team), jump in.
   292. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 08, 2018 at 04:56 PM (#5688566)
I say we start. Assuming the Finals end tonight, the timing works out perfectly.
   293. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 08, 2018 at 04:59 PM (#5688567)
who the hell is writing these lonzo ball commercials? is charlie steiner still alive?


   294. JC in DC Posted: June 08, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5688568)
I agree. I'm even up for starting tonight, as there'll be volume in the thread during the game.
   295. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 08, 2018 at 05:17 PM (#5688570)
here's a reassuring story:

A quick note on Porter Jr. In the KMOX interview, Porter Sr. said his oldest son has not yet released his medical information to NBA teams but underwent a physical by the Chicago Bulls medical team last Thursday. He’ll host a pro day this Friday in Chicago that’s open to any team that’s interested in watching him work out. The following week the teams drafting in the top 10 will have another day to see him up close and inspect his surgically repaired back. The Porters will share the Bulls’ medical report with every other NBA team, Porter Sr. said. The Bulls have the seventh overall pick.

   296. Oriole Tragic is too lit to play in NYC Posted: June 08, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5688573)
If we are starting the draft tonight, then please do let me know if any of you want to move up to #1.

@Athletic Supporter: how about Jonathan Isaac, the 2018 #6 and #35, and your first pick in 2019 (unprotected) for my #1 and Brandon Knight?

@Der-K: you all set at #3 or would you like to move up?
   297. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 08, 2018 at 05:33 PM (#5688578)
293- Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume Lonzo wrote those commercials.
   298. tshipman Posted: June 08, 2018 at 07:12 PM (#5688603)
could we please wait until the Finals are over? I realize it's a 3-0 series, but it's really complicated with all the trade/draft back and forth mixed in with the game back and forth.
   299. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 08, 2018 at 07:35 PM (#5688614)
Seconded. I enjoy the mock draft and am not that caught up in the Finals at this point, but would still prefer we not truly start the postseason thread activity until after the season.
   300. smileyy Posted: June 08, 2018 at 08:06 PM (#5688624)
+1 on waiting for the Finals to be over.
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