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Wednesday, May 30, 2018

OT - 2018 NBA Summer Potpourri (finals, draft, free agency, Colangelo dragging)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  complaints about mayonnaise.


EDIT: image is shrunken. Mouse over to show full size. -vi

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: May 30, 2018 at 12:56 AM | 3814 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   2801. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: July 05, 2018 at 07:39 PM (#5705715)
Flip flap
I was taking a nap
   2802. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: July 05, 2018 at 07:40 PM (#5705716)
They committed to Wiggins not long ago and it is a bit silly to bail out unless Towns and/or Butler is rebelling.


If it was a mistake and you finally admit to yourself a year later that it was a mistake, you do what you can to mitigate the damage going forward. Which in this case means getting rid of Wiggins' contract by almost any means necessary. I mean this is the same thing you see all the time in the business world, I myself have done it, you make a hiring mistake, you hire the wrong person, and it's clear early on to everyone else you made a bad hire, but it takes a while before you're ready to admit to yourself you made a mistake. A lot of people go their whole lives never able or willing to admit to themselves that they made a mistake.

Beyond that, even if the people running the Wolves are unwilling to view it as "we ###### up when we gave Wiggins a bad contract" they can still reasonably (and, IMO, pretty quickly) arrive at "this isn't going the way we envisioned."

Wiggins is and will always be a player who makes a bad team better and a good team worse.

And here's the thing: the longer you wait in the fantastical hope that Wiggins will radically change his personality as he gets older, the more obvious it becomes to everyone else that he's just a bad contract and the harder it will be to move him. I don't know for sure, but I would guess that if the Wolves decided to move him right now, they could find someone willing to take the entire contract without the Wolves having to add any sweeteners, and maybe even willing to give the Wolves something for him.
   2803. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: July 05, 2018 at 07:41 PM (#5705717)
this case means getting rid of Wiggins' contract by almost any means necessary.
2798. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: July 05, 2018 at 07:00 PM (#5705706)
here's a fun one for the anti-wiggins crowd:

trade machine: who says no?
PHI: andrew wiggins, 2021 MIN #2
MIN: jerryd bayless, wilson chander, timothe luwawu-caberrot, 2019 PHI #1 (top 20 protected; converts to 2019 and 2020 2nd round picks.)
   2804. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: July 05, 2018 at 07:47 PM (#5705721)
Yes, of course I would take that if I were Minnesota (assuming no one offered better.) Just trading Wiggins for Chandler straight up would make the team better; they already have two-point scorers and Wiggins does nothing else. Why on earth you'd want the league's most passionate ball stopper on Ben Simmons' team at gigantic cap expense, I can't fathom.
   2805. Fourth True Outcome Posted: July 05, 2018 at 07:49 PM (#5705723)
Why on earth you'd want the league's most passionate ball stopper on Ben Simmons' team at gigantic cap expense, I can't fathom.

Somebody's gotta provide the missed shots for Embiid and Drummond to hoover up, as soon as the Sixers get on the STIGGLES train and trade for Drummond.
   2806. smileyy Posted: July 05, 2018 at 08:36 PM (#5705740)
Hot take: Kawhi will never play at an All-Star level again
   2807. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 05, 2018 at 09:14 PM (#5705750)
If it was a mistake and you finally admit to yourself a year later that it was a mistake, you do what you can to mitigate the damage going forward. Which in this case means getting rid of Wiggins' contract by almost any means necessary.


This is not correct. It might be an accurate assessment of what they should do, but as a first principle you don't automatically change course, reversing completely after making a mistake. Before they had a choice in how to handle Wiggins, to sign him or not and for what price. Even if we agree they made a mistake (and I was mostly against the signing, despite thinking betting on the unlikely event of Wiggins getting better was their best chance of actually getting a bunch better) that doesn't mean the best long term path for them is to do anything necessary to dump the player/contract they just signed.

They don't get to go back in time. Their situation now has Wiggins with a max contract. There are benefits to dumping that contract, but also costs, including the wasted time (years?)of Towns and Butler while you put the next plan in place. It might work out to do whatever is necessary to dump Wiggins, but it is not a slam dunk by any means. Mostly I think they are screwed no matter what and would rather see them win 45 games and bow out early in the playoffs than more years in the "Process wilderness" hoping to get magic beans better than the Towns and Wiggins beans they got last time.
   2808. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: July 05, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5705751)
Yes, of course I would take that if I were Minnesota (assuming no one offered better.) Just trading Wiggins for Chandler straight up would make the team better; they already have two-point scorers and Wiggins does nothing else. Why on earth you'd want the league's most passionate ball stopper on Ben Simmons' team at gigantic cap expense, I can't fathom.
wiggins is only 23; he can create his own shot; he has great size, length, athleticism; he has a ton of defensive upside; he's durable; he gets to the FT line; he's taken more 3PAs every year he's been in the league. i doubt he'll put everything together, a la oladipo/hayward/butler, but there's a good chance he'll get enough things figured out to be a net positive, a la derozan/batum/gay.

at the very least, wiggins is the same (general) age as embiid, saric, simmons and fultz, with a skillset and physical tools that can grow alongside them. worst case scenario, wiggins' contract is good ballast for a future trade.

sure, trading for wiggins takes the sixers out of the FA market next summer*, but let's not get overly gushy over those options; they have warts:
kawhi: knee, may be determined to go to LA
kyrie: knee
kemba: defense
klay: staying with GSW
kbutler: odometer
*signing any of those players into cap space is not possible, however, kawhi and butler could opt in to the last year of their deals and arrange to be traded to PHI, a la chris paul.

let's also not forget that the sixers will be throwing in against NYK, BRK, CHI, LAL, LAC, DAL, all of which are more desirable locales for one non-basketball reason (LA, NYC) or another (taxes, 1990-1998).

Somebody's gotta provide the missed shots for Embiid and Drummond to hoover up, as soon as the Sixers get on the STIGGLES train and trade for Drummond.
for the record:
i was right in my observation that lebron was not an option for the sixers
all it cost to get drummond was saric (who's only 9 months younger than drummond), cap room and a pick the RL sixers basically sold to LAL for cash
embiid's health is a major risk that drummond would help mitigate.
drummond and embiid would only overlap for ~10-15 MPG.
   2809. PJ Martinez Posted: July 05, 2018 at 09:54 PM (#5705767)
Hot take: Kawhi will never play at an All-Star level again
Just now I read a bit of total speculation that had never even occurred to me though once I read it I realized it should have: maybe he doesn't really want to play basketball anymore?
   2810. PJ Martinez Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:27 PM (#5705774)
It begins.

Or, I guess, it continues.
   2811. JC in DC Posted: July 05, 2018 at 10:50 PM (#5705784)
I think what we know is that Kawhi is a jerk.
   2812. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:00 PM (#5705787)
It might be overharsh to just say Kawhi is a jerk. Maybe he is. Take this for all the reliability you can expect from a dude on the internet who has never met anyone who has ever met Kawhi Leonard: I get the feeling that Kawhi is just a young guy who has been trusting the wrong people.

Just now I read a bit of total speculation that had never even occurred to me though once I read it I realized it should have: maybe he doesn't really want to play basketball anymore?


Office Space Jam? Hang on, I gotta call my agent.
   2813. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:09 PM (#5705791)
i was right in my observation that lebron was not an option for the sixers


Didn't you talk for months and months about how the Sixers were going to sign LeBron in the upcoming offseason?

I came here to post [2810].
   2814. maccoach57 Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:09 PM (#5705792)
Not to diss anyone, but I would like to hear what berg, Mouse and the other Wolves guys think about Wiggins.

Also, I don't care much about whether Leonard is a jerk. I care about his physical health and whether he actually wants to play for the Lakers. Bryant is quite possibly/maybe even likely something much worse than a jerk and there are five banners up that would not be hanging there without him. If Leonard is healthy and wants to be here, then Leonard and James on the same team would obviously be great to see as a Lakers fan.
   2815. tshipman Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:18 PM (#5705797)
I think what we know is that Kawhi is a jerk.


I don't think we know this at all. We have zero idea what was said to him while he was rehabbing. He's been everything the Spurs could hope for and more, and yet there's still talk from the Spurs about how he needs to show commitment to them before they make him the supermax offer. While rehabbing, his teammate (now here's a guy we know is a jerk), Tony Parker, basically told the media he was just malingering, and his coach blamed him for not being on the court.
   2816. Just TFTIO Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:20 PM (#5705798)
Not to diss anyone, but I would like to hear what berg, Mouse and the other Wolves guys think about Wiggins.

I'm not as down on him as PASTE is; I'm also not 100% sure that his limitations are insurmountable. I do not think he's worth the money, obviously, but I think there's an outside chance that he could get close to even value.
   2817. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:32 PM (#5705801)
I don't think we know this at all. We have zero idea what was said to him while he was rehabbing. He's been everything the Spurs could hope for and more, and yet there's still talk from the Spurs about how he needs to show commitment to them before they make him the supermax offer. While rehabbing, his teammate (now here's a guy we know is a jerk), Tony Parker, basically told the media he was just malingering, and his coach blamed him for not being on the court.


Yep, and this is why I'm also not certain the people around him (if they even are responsible for his trade demand) are giving him poor advice.
   2818. Booey Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:35 PM (#5705803)
He's been everything the Spurs could hope for and more, and yet there's still talk from the Spurs about how he needs to show commitment to them before they make him the supermax offer.


Shouldn't players be just as obligated to honor their contracts as teams are? If Leonard is healthy and can just choose not to play (if indeed that's what's happening), why can't the Spurs just choose not to pay him? Don't - or shouldn't - contracts cut both ways?
   2819. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:42 PM (#5705804)
Didn't you talk for months and months about how the Sixers were going to sign LeBron in the upcoming offseason?
hell, i thought the sixers still had a 30% chance to woo him right up until he signed with LAL.

this is what i said when, as referenced in [2805], i traded for drummond in our mock draft:
i no longer think the sixers will sign lebron.

if you want to reconcile those two thoughts:
1: the earlier opinion was formed when it appeared likely that paul george would sign with LAL
2: the more recent opinion came after george decided to stay in OKC* (but after lebron had already met with magic and decided to go to LAL anyway)

*and lebron was clowned by durant when he asked him to come to LA, and SAS all but demanded that LA sacrifice every first born son within a 30-mile radius of inglewood as a pre-requisite for negotiations on kawhi
   2820. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: July 05, 2018 at 11:46 PM (#5705806)
Wiggins has been in the league four years now, and the nicest things I can say about him are that he can create his own shot (a valuable skill at the NBA level) and that he is extraordinarily durable (he has started 327 of a possible 328 games, and under Thibodeau the past two years that's an impressive achievement).

The trouble is, 300+ games and he has not developed in any significant way except that his rebounding rate has been going up (but is still poor). He's good for pretty near exactly 2 assists, 1 steal and 0.5 blocks a game, he will make about 1-in-3 three pointers, he will shoot around 75% from the line (I'm being nice and assuming the 65% this year was an aberration). The game-to-game results can vary wildly as with any relentless chucker, but year-to-year he's actually been remarkably consistent (again excepting for whatever happened to his free throw shooting this year).

I only watch about 10 Wolves games a year, so I'm mostly going by stats here. I too am interested to know if anyone who watches the Wolves regularly is bullish on Wiggins going forward (rather than just taking the completely reasonable "well, we're stuck with him now so all we can do is give him the best teammates we can and hope for the best" attitude espoused by Mouse), and if so, why.
   2821. tshipman Posted: July 06, 2018 at 12:01 AM (#5705810)
Shouldn't players be just as obligated to honor their contracts as teams are? If Leonard is healthy and can just choose not to play (if indeed that's what's happening), why can't the Spurs just choose not to pay him? Don't - or shouldn't - contracts cut both ways?


Yes, but the balance of evidence is not that Kawhi is healthy and is choosing not to play.

Here's what appears to be agreed upon by all parties:

1. Kawhi suffered an injury at some point in the offseason that led to him feeling pain in the quad.
2. The Spurs doctors were in charge of treatment up until August, when Kawhi sought a second opinion.
3. Kawhi rehabbed and came back in December. It's unclear whether he was in pain then or not, but the Spurs were cautious and avoided playing him in back to backs.
4. Kawhi was still in pain, despite the cautious approach, and decided to seek more treatment (January 13 was his last game).
5. Kawhi continued to rehab through the all star break.
6. In March, the Spurs hold a players only meeting to try to convince Kawhi to come back sooner. Tony Parker runs his mouth off to a team-friendly mouthpiece.

The worst you could possibly say about Kawhi is that he wasn't willing to play through pain for a team that had made no commitment to him in the long term, and with teammates who openly disrespected him.
   2822. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: July 06, 2018 at 12:05 AM (#5705811)
Shouldn't players be just as obligated to honor their contracts as teams are? If Leonard is healthy and can just choose not to play (if indeed that's what's happening), why can't the Spurs just choose not to pay him? Don't - or shouldn't - contracts cut both ways?

There are provisions for teams that they can use, but there is a lot of downside for the Spurs in pursuing such courses of action. For one, it would burn any bridges to Kawhi left, and effectively make it impossible to repair that relationship. And following, it would basically make it impossible for the Spurs to get value for Kawhi, because everybody will know they have no real leverage.

The most fun provision to speculate about is this:
Section 3. Withholding Services.
A player who withholds playing services called for by a Player Contract for more than thirty (30) days after the start of the last Season covered by his Player Contract shall be deemed not to have “complet[ed] his Player Contract by rendering the playing services called for thereunder.” Accordingly, such a player shall not be a Veteran Free Agent and shall not be entitled to negotiate or sign a Player Contract with any other professional basketball team unless and until the Team for which the player last played expressly agrees otherwise.
   2823. Quaker Posted: July 06, 2018 at 12:44 AM (#5705814)
While rehabbing, his teammate (now here's a guy we know is a jerk), Tony Parker, basically told the media he was just malingering, and his coach blamed him for not being on the court.


Literally none of this is true.
   2824. Fourth True Outcome Posted: July 06, 2018 at 01:28 AM (#5705816)
I think all we can honestly say with much certainty about Kawhi is that he had and maybe still has a serious quad injury and that he is perfectly content not really getting his story out publicly.

I actually brought up the Drummond move because it was one of my favorite moves. It's what I want people to do with teams in mock drafts, make a big move that is not unreasonable but isn't the obvious tack to take. (Plus having Drummond to clean up behind Wiggins isn't a bad idea.)

And I think we know that Tony Parker is a jerk, anyway.
   2825. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: July 06, 2018 at 02:28 AM (#5705817)
Wiggins has been in the league four years now, and the nicest things I can say about him are that he can create his own shot (a valuable skill at the NBA level) and that he is extraordinarily durable (he has started 327 of a possible 328 games, and under Thibodeau the past two years that's an impressive achievement).

...I only watch about 10 Wolves games a year, so I'm mostly going by stats here. I too am interested to know if anyone who watches the Wolves regularly is bullish on Wiggins going forward (rather than just taking the completely reasonable "well, we're stuck with him now so all we can do is give him the best teammates we can and hope for the best" attitude espoused by Mouse), and if so, why.

i'll leave the first hand opinions to someone else, but here's why i'm still optimistic about wiggins:
1: if wiggins improves in the two areas where we are generally confident that a player will improve over the course of a career, shooting and defensive awareness, he should develop into a high-caliber 3+D threat.
2: to that end, wiggins has shot more 3s every year he's been in the league, topping 4 3PAs/G this season, which indicates that improving from beyond the arc is a focus of his development.
3: wiggins' turnover rate is very low, and it has improved each year, which can be a sign of improving awareness.
4: digging a bit further into the stats, if you look at wiggins on/off ratings year by year, when wiggins has been on the floor, MIN's Dratings have ranged from 109 to 113; when he's been off the floor, MIN's Dratings have ranged from 109 to 113. he may not be a good defender (yet), but he's probably not very far from average.
5: on offense, MIN consistently has a higher ORB%, a lower TOV% and a higher Orating, with wiggins, compared to without him. that's not necessarily surprising, but MIN's ORB prowess with wiggins on the floor is an intriguing subplot given that wiggins' most well known offensive attribute is missing shots.
6: if you take a step back at this point, you may notice that wiggins' net ratings the last 3 years have been +4, +3 and +6.


none of this is iron-clad, but it seems like wiggins may bring more to the table than he's given credit for. playing with embiid and shooting 5% better from behind the arc might be all he needs to look like a middleton/covington/porter caliber 3+D wing.
   2826. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 06, 2018 at 04:21 AM (#5705819)
And I think we know that Tony Parker is a jerk, anyway.
Brent Barry and Eva Longoria certainly think so.
   2827. JC in DC Posted: July 06, 2018 at 06:33 AM (#5705823)
Brent Barry, now there's a jerk!

The Spurs developed Kawhi into a star. He got hurt, and abandoned the team. Who does that? Popovich, who does not to my knowledge have a reputation as a bad guy, somehow made the LMA thing work, and clearly last year got fed up with Kawhi (and his "people"). It seems they care that he's a jerk, and it seems they thought his health was fine. Maybe Kawhi uses all this, goes somewhere and resumes his MVP-level career, but I'd bet against that happening.
   2828. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 06, 2018 at 07:42 AM (#5705829)
The Spurs developed Kawhi into a star.

Kawhi had something to do with it, too. No one really knows Kawhi. He had a hard, tragic childhood and it seems he's fiercely loyal to his uncle who filled a void in his life after the death of his father who may or may not (probably not) be advising him well. I don't think this makes Kawhi a jerk or a bad person, just a complicated one. I think this all could have been avoided if the Spurs had just promised him the super max last summer but you can't blame the Spurs for not offering it, either. I don't think this story has any villains. It reminds me a bit of the Chris Webber-Don Nelson fiasco. I can only imagine what that would have been like in the age of twitter and blog boys (though you could make the case that was the opposite of the Spurs and Kawhi and everyone was a jerk).
   2829. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 06, 2018 at 07:51 AM (#5705831)
Kawhi's uncle's company

Where stock photos go to die!
   2830. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 06, 2018 at 08:09 AM (#5705834)
Not to diss anyone, but I would like to hear what berg, Mouse and the other Wolves guys think about Wiggins.




Amazing physical athlete. Good guy, never any real trouble that you ever hear about. Good citizen and super durable. Scores well (in volume anyway). Still pretty young and has shown flashes of more. Flashes of defense, court awareness, aggression, shooting, games where he puts it mostly together. He seems like a nice ordinary guy inside the body of an athletic freak.

So far he is less than the sum of his parts though. He has enough good qualities that you can wish upon him forever. There are long stretches of games where he disappears, it is a cliché, but you can forget he is even on the court. He and Butler don't seem to mesh very well, some of it is play style and some seems to be chemistry/personality. Supposedly Wiggins is not a guy who scours the internet reading about himself and taking notes on scores to settle, in fact the total opposite. He does his own thing, lives in his own world, and getting through to him, emotionally connecting with him and motivating him seems to be very difficult. (Note: Multiple local reporters have commented on this, he doesn't read about himself or basketball on the web or anything; he really doesn't seem to care, at all).

He is young enough he might mature* a bit and put it all together, but more likely he is who he is and his personality won't just change overnight. Both Butler and Towns appear to be about 1000x more driven to be stars. Wiggins does his job, he is not weirdly slacking or anything; it seems like he enjoys basketball as a fine and lucrative career, but it is not his life.

Ignoring injury I think his floor is where he is right now and his ceiling is top five player, but floor is way way more likely.

* Note: Mature is probably the wrong word. Overall he seems plenty emotionally mature.
   2831. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: July 06, 2018 at 09:17 AM (#5705854)
Yeah, I do want to be clear about this if I haven’t already: I’ve written before (and still believe) Wiggins isn’t going to significantly improve on the court because the problem isn’t with his athleticism or with his skills, but with his personality. He does not conceptually understand basketball to be a team sport. That’s the problem on both ends of the court for him; he doesn’t move purposefully off the ball or look for the pass on offense, and he doesn’t seem to understand the very concept of team defense (he seems to be a good on-ball defender).

But when I say the problem is his personality I mean that strictly on the court. He seems to be a good dude off the court. Even the stories floating around about KAT and Butler being frustrated with him seem to be strictly on-court issues.
   2832. NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!) Posted: July 06, 2018 at 09:21 AM (#5705857)
   2833. spivey Posted: July 06, 2018 at 09:59 AM (#5705877)
My take is who is right or wrong with the Kawhi thing doesn't matter, and I don't think it's cut and dried like that. I do remember when Pop was talking late last season about "Kawhi's people", I thought that was likely to create a chasm that wouldn't be repaired. Pop was going through a very hard personal time, as we remember. So maybe he spoke out of turn. But I can't help but suspect he thought the relationship was already poisoned beyond repair. Although actions in the last month or so maybe suggest otherwise.

Anyways, more than ever I'm willing to give players the benefit of the doubt for respecting this as a business. I think a lot of this comes down to pain thresholds, willingness to play in pain, and the risks of doing so. Kawhi also played in pain Game 1 of the WCF the year before and it didn't go well. As I believe you noted yourself, JC, Kawhi was possibly (likely?) rushed at that point. The IT3 shenanigans should not be forgotten by the players.

Anyways, with Kawhi's camp being quiet, there's a lot of speculation.
   2834. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 06, 2018 at 10:18 AM (#5705888)
I am more and more fascinated by what the Lakers will look like this year. Seems like they are serious about taking the ball out of LeBron's hands and playing him more as a post player while slowing their pace down. I don't know if they're serious about that or if that is just pre-season talk but I can't wait to see if that's what they try. I think slowing the game down will kill what their young players do best, but maybe they're all on the way out so it doesn't matter. I'm also not sure why you want the ball out of LeBron's hands. If you're worried about workload, why not just watch his minutes? Also, slowing the pace down and relying on "playmakers" seems antithetical to what they brought Luke Walton in to do. But with all those reservations, maybe the Lakers are zigging while the rest of the league is zagging?
   2835. spivey Posted: July 06, 2018 at 10:33 AM (#5705898)
Lowe made a good point on his last podcast that LeBron has always played slow. He's one of the most devastating players in NBA history in the open court, but his teams have always played very slow. He's a very methodical half court player in terms of slowing stuff down, moving around his offensive players, the defense, and using time to get an efficient shot. Checking his career, it doesn't look like he's played on a team with a pace higher than 12th (of 30). In his prime, which I view as he last couple of Cleveland-v1 years, Miami, and first couple of Cleveland-v2 years, the team was routine around 25th in pace.
   2836. Quaker Posted: July 06, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5705906)
How did it "not go well?" He had 26 points in 24 minutes. He seemed perfectly healthy until he landed on Zaza's foot. The Spurs didn't make him play in overtime of Game 5 or at all in Game 6 vs. the Rockets.

Everything in this whole saga points to Kawhi getting very bad advice from his "people," specifically his uncle. Listen to Haberstroh's podcast from yesterday.
   2837. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 06, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5705940)
Kyle O'Quinn to the Pacers.
   2838. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 06, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5705962)
I wonder how lucrative his best offers were.
   2839. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 06, 2018 at 11:47 AM (#5705964)
Why assume that wasn't his best offer?
   2840. Booey Posted: July 06, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5705971)
In case anyone doesn't want to scroll through the link NJ posted in 2832 (you should though, cuz it's pretty interesting), their points system credits LeBron with the top 5 single seasons of all time, and their all time top 40 (career value) goes like this:

1 - Lebron James
2 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3 - Michael Jordan
4 - Wilt Chamberlain
5 - Tim Duncan
6 - Karl Malone
7 - Charles Barkley
8 - Magic Johnson
9 - Larry Bird
10 - Kevin Garnett
11 - Chris Paul
12 - David Robinson
13 - Shaquille O'Neal
14 - Clyde Drexler
15 - Hakeem Olajuwon
16 - Kobe Bryant
17 - Jason Kidd
18 - Bill Russell
19 - Scottie Pippen
20 - Russell Westbrook
21 - Kevin Durant
22 - Dwyane Wade
23 - Julius Irving
24 - James Harden
25 - Stephen Curry
26 - Dirk Nowitzki
27 - Oscar Robertson
28 - Jerry West
29 - Gary Payton
30 - Paul Pierce
31 - Wes Unseld
32 - Reggie Miller
33 - John Stockton
34 - Bob Pettit
35 - Walt Frazier
36 - Manu Ginobili
37 - Tracy McGrady
38 - Larry Nance
39 - Ray Allen
40 - Dolph Schayes
   2841. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 06, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5706012)
No word of any offer sheets for Lavine so far today as the RFA period opens. I do wonder if he'll end up taking either the qualifying offer or a 1+1 deal like Mirotic ending up taking. It's a good litmus test for how far the new analytics have spread, including to Sacramento and Chicago.
   2842. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: July 06, 2018 at 01:03 PM (#5706019)
Yeah, I do want to be clear about this if I haven’t already: I’ve written before (and still believe) Wiggins isn’t going to significantly improve on the court because the problem isn’t with his athleticism or with his skills, but with his personality. He does not conceptually understand basketball to be a team sport. That’s the problem on both ends of the court for him; he doesn’t move purposefully off the ball or look for the pass on offense, and he doesn’t seem to understand the very concept of team defense (he seems to be a good on-ball defender).

But when I say the problem is his personality I mean that strictly on the court. He seems to be a good dude off the court. Even the stories floating around about KAT and Butler being frustrated with him seem to be strictly on-court issues.
since everything always revolves around the sixers:
i think embiid's presence as the team's best player, its biggest personality and a world-class troll, leaves a lot of room for guys like simmons, covington, fultz to find their own levels. simmons is (arguably) better than embiid, he made a documentary that shat all over the NCAA while he was at LSU and he's dating a kardashian, but yet he's barely a blip on the NBA's radar because embiid provides so much cover.

that might not work for someone who wants the spotlight or who needs to be the alpha, but for guys like wiggins, kawhi, covington, who show up, do work, go home, it's close to an ideal situation.
   2843. Booey Posted: July 06, 2018 at 01:10 PM (#5706022)
No word of any offer sheets for Lavine so far today as the RFA period opens.


Marcus Smart, either. Makes me wonder if the Jazz jumped the gun by offering so much for Exum right off the bat, when they could have just waited and matched any offer that came their way (and it seems unlikely he would have gotten a bigger offer than the 3/33 Utah gave).

I guess doing that might have soured their relationship with Dante a bit though, like it's apparently doing with Boston and Smart.
   2844. Booey Posted: July 06, 2018 at 01:15 PM (#5706027)
simmons is (arguably) better than embiid, he made a documentary that shat all over the NCAA while he was at LSU and he's dating a kardashian, but yet he's barely a blip on the NBA's radar because embiid provides so much cover.


That, and he's just got no personality whatsoever. He was dull and monotone in every interview I've seen. Even the "NBA Mean Tweets" fan mail he responded to on Jimmy Kimmel was about how boring his voice is.

He's an Aussie! Would it kill him to throw out a "Crikey!" every now and then?
   2845. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 06, 2018 at 01:16 PM (#5706028)
Marcus Smart, either. Makes me wonder if the Jazz jumped the gun by offering so much for Exum right off the bat, when they could have just waited and matched any offer that came their way (and it seems unlikely he would have gotten a bigger offer than the 3/33 Utah gave).

I guess doing that might have soured their relationship with Dante a bit though, like it's apparently doing with Boston and Smart.



It's hard to take the human element out of these guys' relationships with their club but FFS it's the agents job to explain that if there's no better offers there's no better offers and it's nothing personal. I've seen it reported that Zach wants to be "treated fairly" by Chicago. What does that even mean? It would be one thing if Zach was a long time fan favorite, a guy that has led them to the playoffs or made an All-Star team as a Bull and came back from injury so maybe you can give him a little benefit of the doubt...but he's a guy that has played like 40 odd games, badly for them, in a tank year. There's no relationship history. He's worth what the market says, and if it says he's worth 3 years 36 million then that's the contract Chicago should match, no more, no less.
   2846. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: July 06, 2018 at 01:51 PM (#5706052)
What everyone suspected has now been reported: Carmelo Anthony will not be on OKC's roster this year. He'll either be traded or stretched.

Who says no?

OKC: Cristiano Felicio (3/$24.1M -> can be stretched for $3.45M/yr)
CHI: Carmelo Anthony (1/$27.9M)
   2847. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 06, 2018 at 01:52 PM (#5706053)
Well if Chicago would just waive him I'd be cool with it.
   2848. RJ in TO Posted: July 06, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5706060)
Report: Fire is hot, and water is wet

The Thunder currently have a historically absurd $310 million payroll, and in order to cut that down, they’ve decided to turn their attention towards the albatross wearing No. 7.

ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski and Royce Young report that the Thunder are going to find a way—whether through the stretch provision, a trade, or a buyout—to get out of the $27.9 million they owe Melo for the 2018-19 season. This plan is to do this “this summer.”

By jettisoning Anthony, the Thunder could save over $100 million if they trade him or use the stretch provision on his contract. Stretching Melo would mean spreading his contract’s cap hit over three years, amounting to $9.3 million over each of the next three seasons. Doing so would save the team roughly $107 million. According to the report, though, the Thunder prefer a trade and are banking on another team that wants to take on an expiring contract in order to create more cap space for the 2019 offseason.
   2849. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: July 06, 2018 at 02:27 PM (#5706092)
Supposedly Wiggins is not a guy who scours the internet reading about himself and taking notes on scores to settle, in fact the total opposite. He does his own thing, lives in his own world, and getting through to him, emotionally connecting with him and motivating him seems to be very difficult. (Note: Multiple local reporters have commented on this, he doesn't read about himself or basketball on the web or anything; he really doesn't seem to care, at all).


Maybe he's changing: https://twitter.com/cjzero/status/1015025053170327552

(I think it's funny and don't have any issue with players responding to trolls like that)
   2850. tshipman Posted: July 06, 2018 at 02:56 PM (#5706132)
It's hard to take the human element out of these guys' relationships with their club but FFS it's the agents job to explain that if there's no better offers there's no better offers and it's nothing personal. I've seen it reported that Zach wants to be "treated fairly" by Chicago. What does that even mean? It would be one thing if Zach was a long time fan favorite, a guy that has led them to the playoffs or made an All-Star team as a Bull and came back from injury so maybe you can give him a little benefit of the doubt...but he's a guy that has played like 40 odd games, badly for them, in a tank year. There's no relationship history. He's worth what the market says, and if it says he's worth 3 years 36 million then that's the contract Chicago should match, no more, no less.


So I get this, and agree, but let's not forget that if it's a business, then let's not demonize players for treating it as such.
   2851. tshipman Posted: July 06, 2018 at 02:57 PM (#5706135)
By jettisoning Anthony, the Thunder could save over $100 million if they trade him or use the stretch provision on his contract. Stretching Melo would mean spreading his contract’s cap hit over three years, amounting to $9.3 million over each of the next three seasons. Doing so would save the team roughly $107 million. According to the report, though, the Thunder prefer a trade and are banking on another team that wants to take on an expiring contract in order to create more cap space for the 2019 offseason.


I don't get the thinking. No one's going to absorb Melo into cap space for free. The Thunder hate trading 1st rounders, and it would take at least 2 to get off Melo's salary. If they trade him as an expiring to another cap team, they'd have to take back almost equal salary.
   2852. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: July 06, 2018 at 03:04 PM (#5706140)
2748. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: July 04, 2018 at 01:38 AM (#5705253)
trade machine: who says no?
PHI: melo, 2020 1st round pick (protected 21-30; odd numbers between 1 and 11; even numbers between 8 and 18), 2021 1st round swap rights, 2021 2nd round pick
OKC: wilson chandler, jerryd bayless, timothe luwawu
   2853. Fourth True Outcome Posted: July 06, 2018 at 03:07 PM (#5706143)
I assume the Thunder are expecting to have to stretch Melo, but leaving the door open to any other team deluding themselves into thinking Melo/Melo's contract has enough value to acquire without the Thunder sweetening the pot overmuch.
   2854. Rally Posted: July 06, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5706151)
I predict Carmelo plays with LeBron next year, after his inevitable release.
   2855. Rally Posted: July 06, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5706155)
2nd prediction: He won't finish the season on the Laker's roster.
   2856. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 06, 2018 at 03:19 PM (#5706162)
A very small part of me wants Melo to sign with the Warriors for the minimum just for the reaction. But then the Warriors would have Melo and the fun would stop.
   2857. Fourth True Outcome Posted: July 06, 2018 at 03:20 PM (#5706163)
What about Melo as a smallball center in Houston?
   2858. maccoach57 Posted: July 06, 2018 at 03:30 PM (#5706170)
I am more and more fascinated by what the Lakers will look like this year. Seems like they are serious about taking the ball out of LeBron's hands and playing him more as a post player while slowing their pace down. I don't know if they're serious about that or if that is just pre-season talk but I can't wait to see if that's what they try. I think slowing the game down will kill what their young players do best, but maybe they're all on the way out so it doesn't matter. I'm also not sure why you want the ball out of LeBron's hands. If you're worried about workload, why not just watch his minutes? Also, slowing the pace down and relying on "playmakers" seems antithetical to what they brought Luke Walton in to do. But with all those reservations, maybe the Lakers are zigging while the rest of the league is zagging


Stephenson: I think he is there for the same reason Kobe wanted Raja Bell when Bell was a FA back in the day.
McGee: I think James likes him from the Finals, and he fits what Magic thinks a 5 should be more than Lopez does. Magic called Lopez "slow" at a presser recently.

Rondo/Randle: This is the most complicated piece. Bullet points--

1-James wants to play significantly fewer minutes and be able to play off-ball more. James playing on the block some mirrors Magic's own career in his 30s.
2-They don't trust Ball to stay on the floor, and he could get traded.
3-Rondo is a Magic-type guy--pass first, prickly competitor, Celtic and Champion.
4-Magic probably thinks that having three great passers on the team outweighs not having good 3P shooting.
5-Randle is a Jim Buss guy, kind of entitled, did not fit that well with James, and they did not want any new salary commitments beyond this year.

As to Walton, recall that Magic and Pelinka didn't hire him.

The big picture for the Lakers is very simple: James needs to stay healthy and effective, and they need to score big in FA and/or add a star in a trade. I think letting Randle bail (supposedly he wanted out) underscores the idea that they think they will get Leonard and probably a second guy, so this year's team, in some sense, is not as important as having every possible dollar available will be. Deng will be an expiring in 2019-2020.

As far as how this year's team will play--not sure yet, because they may make more moves. Obviously, they will be a bad 3P shooting team that is interesting to watch, makes a lot of cool passes, and provides endless Twitter fodder. How good they will actually be will depend on Ingram, Ball, and how much James plays.
   2859. Howie Menckel Posted: July 06, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5706176)
2 yrs, $10M


Adrian Wojnarowski
‏Verified account @wojespn
5s6 seconds ago

Adrian Wojnarowski Retweeted Adrian Wojnarowski

Source: Parker called Gregg Popovich in the last hour to inform him of decision to accept Charlotte offer. Spurs wanted Parker back, but Parker will take on a significant role with Hornets behind Kemba Walker.
   2860. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 06, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5706184)
The big picture for the Lakers is very simple: James needs to stay healthy and effective, and they need to score big in FA and/or add a star in a trade. I think letting Randle bail (supposedly he wanted out) underscores the idea that they think they will get Leonard and probably a second guy, so this year's team, in some sense, is not as important as having every possible dollar available will be. Deng will be an expiring in 2019-2020.


To me this seems like a waste of one of the three "good years" Lebron probably has left.
   2861. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 06, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5706200)
The Lakers do seem to be operating as if LeBron isn't going to age. Hell, maybe he won't. I have learned not to doubt the man.
   2862. maccoach57 Posted: July 06, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5706206)
To me this seems like a waste of one of the three "good years" Lebron probably has left.


James made a decision not to prioritize an immediate challenge to Golden State, which, given James' age, mileage, and history, as noted, I found surprising; but this is what he wanted to do, obviously. So in that scenario, setting up 2019-2020 makes some sense. Also, neither Ball nor Ingram is 21 yet, so I expect that part of this year is James "scouting" them, seeing if they develop etc.
   2863. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 06, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5706215)
Why assume that wasn't his best offer?
It might have been, particularly if you consider Indiana a contender in the East. Seemed like a lot of the "smart" team were linked to him, though, and he'd fit a lot of teams.
   2864. Rally Posted: July 06, 2018 at 04:00 PM (#5706240)
3-Rondo is a Magic-type guy--pass first, prickly competitor, Celtic and Champion.


I'm thinking the Rondo signing is an indication that Ball will soon be traded, or they expect him to not be available for a while. Hard to see those two playing on court together, but we could be treated to some insanely awesome passes until the 24 second clock expires.

   2865. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 06, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5706290)
It's hard to take the human element out of these guys' relationships with their club but FFS it's the agents job to explain that if there's no better offers there's no better offers and it's nothing personal.
From the agent's POV, if there are no better offers, then it's the team's fault, and the agent will work very hard to make the player feel the same way. Otherwise, the player blames the agent, and that's the only person the agent can't have being blamed.
   2866. aberg Posted: July 06, 2018 at 05:11 PM (#5706298)
Some Tony Parker notes:

1. Before today, he was the 5th longest tenured single-team player ever (dirk, Kobe, Stockton, Miller).

2. The listed PGs on the last spurs team that didn't include him were Avery Johnson, Steve Kerr, and Terry Porter. Wonder if they'll bring those guys back.

3. Remember when he was almost traded for Jason Kidd? That's a fun what-if.

4. Timing makes me wonder if it has anything to do with Kawhi. Did spurs gently nudge him out to appease Kawhi? Did he want to get away from the team due to the situation.
   2867. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 06, 2018 at 05:16 PM (#5706300)
2. The listed PGs on the last spurs team that didn't include him were Avery Johnson, Steve Kerr, and Terry Porter. Wonder if they'll bring those guys back.
I bet they'd love to get Kerr back.
   2868. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: July 06, 2018 at 05:22 PM (#5706304)
It might have been, particularly if you consider Indiana a contender in the East. Seemed like a lot of the "smart" team were linked to him, though, and he'd fit a lot of teams.
indiana has had a very odd offseason.

they drafted aaron holiday. that makes sense. i was higher on him than most, and IND may not want to pay big money to their current PG (darren collison) when he's a free agent next summer
they signed tyreke evans for 1/12. that's a great move. evans does a lot of things well, and he's a great fit for a team that wants consolidate the gains they made last year.
they signed kyle oquinn for 1/4. that's another great move. KOQ is a great defender at the 5 and you can rely on him to consistently make good decisions when he's on the floor.

if that was all they did, the only contracts IND would have on the books for next summer are oladipo and a handful of recent draft picks (holiday, sabonis, leaf, anigbogu)

...except they also signed doug mcdermott, who isn't good or versatile or young or capable of defending anyone, for 3/21. noone is getting multi year offers this offseason, but mcdermott randomly wound up signing for 3 years, from a team that otherwise had a perfect offseason. the mind boggles.
   2869. Booey Posted: July 06, 2018 at 05:22 PM (#5706305)
Some Tony Parker notes:

1. Before today, he was the 5th longest tenured single-team player ever (dirk, Kobe, Stockton, Miller).


You left out an obvious one. Parker wasn't even the longest tenured single-team guy on those great Spurs teams...
   2870. maccoach57 Posted: July 06, 2018 at 05:29 PM (#5706310)
>>>>The Lakers do seem to be operating as if LeBron isn't going to age

I think it's more James doing the operating.
   2871. tshipman Posted: July 06, 2018 at 05:32 PM (#5706315)
...except they also signed doug mcdermott, who isn't good or versatile or young or capable of defending anyone, for 3/21. noone is getting multi year offers this offseason, but mcdermott randomly wound up signing for 3 years, from a team that otherwise had a perfect offseason. the mind boggles.


This is a good point. How did McDermott get so much? He's kinda a minimum player.
   2872. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: July 06, 2018 at 07:47 PM (#5706363)

This is a good point. How did McDermott get so much? He's kinda a minimum player.


I don't know, I could see this being a "popular signing" in Indiana.
   2873. JJ1986 Posted: July 06, 2018 at 08:08 PM (#5706371)
So Kings.
   2874. JJ1986 Posted: July 06, 2018 at 08:08 PM (#5706372)
Shams:
RFA Zach LaVine has agreed to a four-year, $80M offer sheet with the Sacramento Kings, league sources tell Yahoo. The Chicago Bulls have 48 hours to match.
   2875. spivey Posted: July 06, 2018 at 08:11 PM (#5706374)
McDermott sucks mostly and I don't get that deal, but the "nobody is getting multiple year deals" I think is mostly on the players part, not the owners. I think the players want to re-dip the next 2 offseasons when there are way more teams with cap space.
   2876. tshipman Posted: July 06, 2018 at 08:13 PM (#5706376)
McDermott sucks mostly and I don't get that deal, but the "nobody is getting multiple year deals" I think is mostly on the players part, not the owners. I think the players want to re-dip the next 2 offseasons when there are way more teams with cap space.


Okay, yes, but who else is giving McDermott 7mm/year? Edit: I say this with respect to his "deceptive athleticism" and "coach on the floor" abilities.

Shams:
RFA Zach LaVine has agreed to a four-year, $80M offer sheet with the Sacramento Kings, league sources tell Yahoo. The Chicago Bulls have 48 hours to match.


Bulls should just say goodbye.
   2877. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: July 06, 2018 at 08:18 PM (#5706378)
Bulls should, they probably won't.
   2878. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 06, 2018 at 08:21 PM (#5706380)
Ugh. Let the Kings Kings man.
   2879. tshipman Posted: July 06, 2018 at 08:25 PM (#5706383)
I mean, your first indicator that matching is a bad decision is that the Kings signed the offer sheet.
   2880. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 06, 2018 at 08:28 PM (#5706385)
I mean, your first indicator that matching is a bad decision is that the Kings signed the offer sheet.


Indeed.

Sactown Royalty's World Famous W. Griffith


@WillofThaPeople
3m3 minutes ago
More
A Recent History of Kings SG's:

Trade DeMarcus Cousins and the centerpiece is Buddy Hield, a shooting guard.

Trade down in a draft and the centerpiece is Bogdan Bogdanovic, a shooting guard.

Pass on Donovan Mitchell, because you're set at shooting guard.

Sign Zach Lavine.

Ok
   2881. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: July 06, 2018 at 08:53 PM (#5706392)
And passed on Luka Doncic in the draft because they don't want to take the ball out of Fox' hands...
   2882. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 06, 2018 at 09:58 PM (#5706408)
Why do I root for this POS team.
   2883. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: July 06, 2018 at 10:00 PM (#5706409)
Shams:
RFA Zach LaVine has agreed to a four-year, $80M offer sheet with the Sacramento Kings, league sources tell Yahoo. The Chicago Bulls have 48 hours to match.
that's about 30% too expensive, but lavine is a good fit for the kings.

they're not gonna win more than 30 games (eta: this year) no matter what they do, so i'd love to see them punt on defense and play a lineup of fox/lavine/hield/bogdonavic/bagley. spread the floor with lavine/hield/bogdonavic and let fox and bagley attack the rim out of a spread pick and roll.


also, yeah, CHI has to let him go.
   2884. PJ Martinez Posted: July 06, 2018 at 10:02 PM (#5706410)
"The Bulls have decided to match Sacramento's $78M offer sheet to Zach LaVine, league sources tell ESPN."
   2885. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: July 06, 2018 at 10:05 PM (#5706412)
"The Bulls have decided to match Sacramento's $78M offer sheet to Zach LaVine, league sources tell ESPN."

that's insanity.

speaking of...furkan korkmaz put up 40 points in summer league. he was deadly from beyond the arc, and he did a great job of getting defenders in the air and drawing fouls.

shamet also looked pretty good as a shooter until he was pulled for some random muscle tweak.

zhaire smith was nearly invisible.

jonah bolden looks like he might stick.
   2886. JJ1986 Posted: July 06, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5706413)
The Bulls also need to spend $26 million dollars before then or they just lose $10 million in capspace.
   2887. tshipman Posted: July 06, 2018 at 10:45 PM (#5706432)
Well, the good news is that the offer sheet somehow got 2 million cheaper.

that's about 30% too expensive, but lavine is a good fit for the kings.


No.
   2888. Too Much Coffee Man Posted: July 06, 2018 at 10:46 PM (#5706433)
"The Bulls have decided to match Sacramento's $78M offer sheet to Zach LaVine, league sources tell ESPN."


Well, leave it to the Bulls to save the Kings from themselves.
   2889. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: July 06, 2018 at 10:53 PM (#5706434)
Well, leave it to the Bulls to save the Kings from themselves.


Dollars to donuts the Kings spend this money in worse fashion.

Speaking of the Kings, theboyqueen, are you still around lurking or no?
   2890. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 06, 2018 at 11:22 PM (#5706457)
2841 was prescient:
No word of any offer sheets for Lavine so far today as the RFA period opens. I do wonder if he'll end up taking either the qualifying offer or a 1+1 deal like Mirotic ending up taking. It's a good litmus test for how far the new analytics have spread, including to Sacramento and Chicago.


MEM gave slo-mo Anderson a 4/37.2m sheet.
Nurkic takes 4/48 to stay in Portland.
   2891. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 06, 2018 at 11:40 PM (#5706461)
2841 was prescient:


This is such a bad process move I can barely comprehend it. It's not even the move in isolation, which is bad, but not awful fire the GM bad -- it's the utter insanity of the move in context of what they've done the last year.

So you trade Butler, ostensibly because you're worried about a super max and a treadmill -- fair enough.

OK, somehow out of the trade you came out...not bad! You drafted Markannan, good job! Dunn, who you also like, was alright, not bad, not good, but alright. Some upside there long term. And Lavine, he was dogcrap. Bad. Rehabbing an ACL sure, but he was pretty much bad before the injury too. He's by the eye test and analytics one of the worst defenders in the entire league. On his bad scoring nights (which post ACL were the norm) he's one of the worst starters in the NBA.

So when the Kings make a bewildering offer of 80 million over 4 years and you have every chance to continue to think long term, to continue to tank, keep the cap wide open, take on maybe some reclamation projects for cheap -- you match.

You ####### match. Come on. Pot odds guys. Take the long vision. So what if he's OK for Sac, so what if he's even good? There is zero harm in just sucking again next year and keeping the cap open. Especially given how you seemed to commit yourself to that path only a year ago.
   2892. aberg Posted: July 06, 2018 at 11:47 PM (#5706466)
If Chicago was dead set on having someone to spend that money on, give Parker 3/42 or something.
   2893. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 07, 2018 at 12:32 AM (#5706481)
If Chicago was dead set on having someone to spend that money on, give Parker 3/42 or something.


No kidding, at least then they could spin it as a Chicago kid comes home. It's really ####### disheartening to follow such a stupid franchise.
   2894. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: July 07, 2018 at 04:37 AM (#5706495)
this is beside the point, which is that the Bulls are dumb, but I think the Bucks would match 3/42.
   2895. aberg Posted: July 07, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5706525)
Former UCLA player Tyler Honeycutt reportedly started a shootout with police in Sherman Oaks and ended up dead.
   2896. maccoach57 Posted: July 07, 2018 at 12:45 PM (#5706577)
I lived in Sherman Oaks one year as an undergrad. Honeycutt was well after my time, but I remember him.

I was high on LaVine when he came out of college; I thought he would be pretty good. And yes, signing Jabari Parker would have been a better idea for Chicago than matching on LaVine.
   2897. sardonic Posted: July 07, 2018 at 01:18 PM (#5706584)
And yes, signing Jabari Parker would have been a better idea for Chicago than matching on LaVine.


So would punching yourself in the face.
   2898. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: July 07, 2018 at 01:20 PM (#5706585)
With the Bulls deciding to match, now is the PERFECT time for the Wolves to trade Wiggins to Sacramento. It really couldn't have worked out any better. The Kings just proved they're desperate for a player like him, while the Bulls likely took themselves out of the running for 2 stars in free agency 2019.
The Wolves should have Sacramento on speed dial working out a Wiggins deal to gain another max salary slot next summer. How about Wiggins and Dieng for Garrett Temple, Iman Shumpert, Willie Cauley-Stein, and Skal Labissiere? Looks good to me.

That's what I wrote 4 days ago. Now I'd expect a couple 2nd round picks from the Kings as well (they have 4 extra 2nd rounders over the next 3 drafts). I think Temple would be a great fit for Minnesota. High-effort, high-intensity defender who makes good decisions, doesn't use many possessions, and is known as an outstanding locker room presence. He's also a better catch-and-shoot option than Wiggins. The Wolves could then try to make a run this year and see if Butler and KAT patch things up, and if not, they could always trade Butler before the deadline and rebuild with KAT, recent draftees, extra picks, and a clean payroll.

Also, as a Bulls fan, I have to write these hopeful things about teams like the Wolves because the Bulls engender only pessimism and despair.
   2899. PJ Martinez Posted: July 07, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5706591)
"Forward Jonas Jerebko plans to sign with the Golden State Warriors upon clearing waivers on Monday, league sources tell ESPN. Jerebko has a $4.2M salary that would need to be guaranteed if he's claimed."
   2900. sardonic Posted: July 07, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5706592)
I have only watched Wiggins a handful of minutes and have only taken a cursory look at his BBRef, so I'm totally talking out of my ass here, but count me as someone who thinks the Wolves should hold onto him. Maybe it's my mentality as an A's fan, but I think it's hard for a team to get upside like that. I think the Wolves best path to being a true contender is for Wiggins to take the leap.

I guess maybe you ditch Wiggins, Teague (player option in 2019) and Gibson and then roll the dice on signing Kemba Walker and getting Butler to opt in/re-sign. But as the Lakers have shown this offseason, nailing the FA market isn't exactly a stone cold lock either.

Now, if Wiggins actually hurts you with KAT and Butler and you can't work it out, then yeah, I think you gotta do what you gotta do. But even then I'd say the most ideal situation would be to bring in a coach who can manage the situation.

If anything, if I'm playing GM for the day, I'd look into a new coach before moving on from Wiggins.
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