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Wednesday, May 30, 2018

OT - 2018 NBA Summer Potpourri (finals, draft, free agency, Colangelo dragging)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  complaints about mayonnaise.


EDIT: image is shrunken. Mouse over to show full size. -vi

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: May 30, 2018 at 12:56 AM | 3814 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   701. Oriole Tragic: doomed to mysterious ignomy Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:27 PM (#5690878)
Repost from previous page:

@stevegamer here are your outstanding trade offers:

CLE gets: both Chriss and Warren
PHO gets: #8 and JR Smith

or

CLE gets: choice of Chriss or Warren, plus Terrence Ross (1/10.5 expiring)
PHO gets: #13 and JR Smith

or

CLE gets: Bledsoe, Delly and #17
MIL gets: Hill, Korver and #8
   702. Oriole Tragic: doomed to mysterious ignomy Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:33 PM (#5690882)

stevegamer and the Cavaliers are on the clock at #8.

FIRST ROUND
1. Magic (from PHO) - Athletic Supporter - Luka Doncic, G, Real Madrid
2. Kings - smileyy - Deandre Ayton, F/C, Arizona
3. Hawks - Der-K - Jaren Jackson Jr., F/C, Michigan State (to DAL for #5)
4. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball - Michael Porter Jr., F, Missouri
5. Hawks - Der-K (from DAL) - Mohamed Bamba - C, Texas
6. Suns (from ORL) - Oriole Tragic - Wendell Carter Jr., C, Duke
7. Bulls - Moses - Marvin Bagley III, F/C, Duke
8. Cavs - stevegamer
9. Knicks - NJ/JC
10. 76ers - 57i66135
11. Hornets - Berg
12. Clippers - Thok
13. Cavs (from Clippers) - stevegamer
14. Nuggets - Dandy
15. Wizards - Votto
16. Suns - Oriole Tragic
17. Bucks - Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw
18. Spurs - SouthSideRyan
19. Hawks - Der-K
20. Timberwolves - Mouse
21. Jazz - Booey/Cervo
22. Bulls - Moses
23. Pacers - Paste
24. Trailblazers
25. Lakers - Hombre/rr
26. 76ers - 57i66135
27. Celtics - MHS
28. Warriors - sardonic
29. Nets - JJ1986
30. Hawks - Der-K

SECOND ROUND
31. Magic - Athletic Supporter (from PHO)
32. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball
33. Hawks - Der-K (from DAL)
34. Hawks - Der-K
35. Suns - Oriole Tragic (from ORL)
36. Knicks - NJ/JC
37. Kings - smileyy
38. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless (from PHI)
39. 76ers - 57i66135
40. Nets - JJ1986
41. Magic - Athletic Supporter
42. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless
43. Nuggets - Dandy
44. Wizards -Votto
45. Nets - JJ1986
46. Rockets
47. Lakers - Hombre/rr
48. Timberwolves - Mouse
49. Spurs - SouthSideRyan
50. Pacers - Paste
51. Pelicans
52. Jazz - Booey/Cervo
53. Thunder - Fridas Boss
54. Mavericks - tshipman
55. Hornets - Berg
56. 76ers - 57i66135
57. Thunder - Fridas Boss
58. Nuggets - Dandy
59. Magic - Athletic Supporter (from PHO)
60. 76ers - 57i66135

Trades
ORL gets: #1 overall
PHO gets: #6 overall, ORL 2019-1 (unprotected)

LAC gets: Kevin Love
CLE gets: DeAndre Jordan, #13 overall

DET gets: Dario Saric, Jerryd Bayless, #38
PHI gets: Andre Drummond (!)

DAL gets: Jaren Jackson Jr., Dennis Schroder, Miles Plumlee
ATL gets: #5 and #33 overall, Wesley Matthews

ORL gets: #31 and #59 overall, Brandon Knight, Tyson Chandler
PHO gets: #35 overall, Bismack Biyombo, Terrence Ross
   703. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:33 PM (#5690883)
Unless I missed a rule change, the Lakers aren't allowed to trade out of the first round 2 consecutive years right?

aberg my offer for Bledsoe hinged on being able to trade down(giving you 26 or 30) and pick up an extra pick, Der K nor stiggles seemed interested.
   704. Oriole Tragic: doomed to mysterious ignomy Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:37 PM (#5690890)

Might be a good catch @SouthSideRyan. Is the Stepien Rule in play here?

7.03. First Round Draft Choice. No Member may sell its rights to select a player in the first round of any NBA Draft for cash or its equivalent, or trade or exchange its right to select a player in the first round of any NBA Draft if the result of such trade or exchange may be to leave the Member without first-round picks in any two (2) consecutive future NBA Drafts.

Since the proposed deal calls for a 1-20 protection on the LAL 2019 first-rounder, the rule could apply, but doesn't seem likely to apply, right?

I guess the "may be" phrase is the operative one, here?
   705. JJ1986 Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5690892)
Unless I missed a rule change, the Lakers aren't allowed to trade out of the first round 2 consecutive years right?
I believe they just have to wait until after the draft to make the trade. The Stepien rule only looks forward.
   706. Oriole Tragic: doomed to mysterious ignomy Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:45 PM (#5690898)

@JJ1986 so you can get around it by instructing LAL on which selection to make at #25, and then do the trade later?
   707. JJ1986 Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:51 PM (#5690904)
@JJ1986 so you can get around it by instructing LAL on which selection to make at #25, and then do the trade later?
I think so. This is above my paygrade, but I think that would actually have to happen anyway, since the trade would have to be done after Brooklyn renounced Stauskas and Okafor to get the $14 million in capspace.
   708. tshipman Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:57 PM (#5690912)
#25 is the Cavs' pick tho. But yeah, you can get around it by waiting until after the draft.
   709. Willard Baseball Posted: June 12, 2018 at 11:15 PM (#5690953)
On Wiggins vs Porter:

Porter can play PF in situations, Wiggins cannot. Porter is a purer shooter and better rebounder. As the guy drafting for Memphis, playing in a slow-paced grinding offense with intelligent veterans allows him to develop correctly.

I think Porter is much more Carmelo than he is Wiggins.

Porter is a great fit in the modern NBA.
   710. Thok Posted: June 12, 2018 at 11:44 PM (#5690964)
I think the Clippers are the only team that actually works well, so I'll write up this proposal for them if it works for the Lakers.


The Clippers are selfish enough to want get at least another second round pick (without any protections on it) to get involved in this deal.
   711. stevegamer Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:15 AM (#5690968)
@stevegamer here are your outstanding trade offers:
CLE gets: choice of Chriss or Warren, plus Terrence Ross (1/10.5 expiring)
PHO gets: #13 and JR Smith


Sorry about not being on much of today. Had connectivity issues. I missed that PHO had acquired Terrence Ross. That offer looks the best to me, as he's abetter fit as a SG than Warren. Accepting this offer, and taking Terrence Ross & Chriss:

CLE gets: Marquess Chriss and Terrence Ross
PHO gets: #13 and JR Smith


Cavs pick at #8 coming up in the next few minutes.


   712. stevegamer Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:23 AM (#5690972)
With the 8th pick the Cleveland Cavaliers are happy to select, from the National Champion Villanova Wildcats,
Mikal Bridges, SF/SG


   713. stevegamer Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:52 AM (#5690987)
Just catching up, but did the Cavs really trade a 3pt threat for a lane clogger with a -14.6 +/- against the Warriors this year in an effort to keep Lebron? And they want to pair him with Thompson in today's version of the NBA (especially if Lebron is still around)? Yikes.

Could be worse ... stevegamer wants to have LeBron play with Marqueese Chriss. If you thought JR was dumb ...

Yeah, that would be ugly. At least Jordan is a good player, just a horrendous fit on a Lebron team.

And coming from a Cavs fan who still has a probably unreasonable belief that Lebron can be kept, putting more of the offensive burden on his shoulders is going to drive him away. Lebron is going to want a guy who can get his own shot.


Combining a couple things Stevey & Tship said here, and my responses as far as the Cavs plan.

1. I'm aware that the Cavs need guys who can get their own shot, or putting it another way, score without help. Jordan can do that off the offensive glass, or in post up, which gives LeBron some breathing room. Here's the list of guys who shoot more efficiently than Jordan:

Yep that's it. Absolutely nobody. Leads the league in True Shooting percentage among all players, not just active ones. He also doesn't need plays called for him to score. I think Jordan is an easy sell to LeBron as a guy who will defend better than any big the Cavs have, and also can score without having plays run for him.

I don't care much about Jordan vs the Warriors this year that much.

- He was playing on a lesser version of the Clippers this year.
- You still have to get to the finals, and the Cavaliers took 7 games to beat the Pacers int he first round.
- The Cavaliers were a defensive sieve. Jordan addresses that.

The goal is to make the Cavs better, not to simply matchup up optimally against one team they may not get to face in the playoffs if they don't get to the NBA Finals. Which they almost failed to do. Twice.

2. While Marquess Chriss may be a dumb player (I'm not sure of that), he's at least not the same dumb player as the guy who screwed up game 1 of the finals, and always does dumb things. He's also young & cheap, and likely to be a depth player that plays bench minutes. We hope he develops. Smith HAD to go. And you can with with dumb players, see Nick Young & JaVale McGee.

3. Terrence Ross is another guy who has defended pretty well in his career, isn't old, and should be able to replace everything JR Smith gave the Cavs without stupidity.

4. Picking Bridges gives us another guy who I expect will defend well over his career, and also can shoot. I expect that he'll be a rotation player quickly.

Expected roster at this moment:
Whatever: James
Bigs: Jordan/Thompson/Nance/Zizic/Chriss
Wings: Ross/Bridges/Osman/Korver/Clarkson
Points: Hill

   714. Stevey Posted: June 13, 2018 at 01:10 AM (#5690995)
Jordan can do that off the offensive glass, or in post up, which gives LeBron some breathing room. Here's the list of guys who shoot more efficiently than Jordan:


To do that, Jordan has to be standing pretty much right in the spot Lebron wants to get to. Which also means the opponents best rim protector is standing there too. The offensive gameplan of “make Lebron a jumpshooter and vacuum up his misses” could work, but why not just play to his strengths instead?

Yes, he can score without having plays run for him, but only after youve put Lebron through the ringer of running an even higher percentage of the offense. Lebron is looking to be responsible for less work on the offensive end.

I don't care much about Jordan vs the Warriors this year that much.


Lebron does though.
   715. stevegamer Posted: June 13, 2018 at 01:19 AM (#5690996)
To do that, Jordan has to be standing pretty much right in the spot Lebron wants to get to. Which also means the opponents best rim protector is standing there too. The offensive gameplan of “make Lebron a jumpshooter and vacuum up his misses” could work, but why not just play to his strengths instead?


In my opinion, the Cavs offense with LeBron on the floor isn't the problem as much as it is with him off the floor. And if you play Jordan for minutes while LeBron rests, you might be able to get a decent enough offense together. "Make LeBron a jumpshooter" isn't my offensive plan, as much as it is "take some scoring load off LeBron". You can dump the ball into the post for a possesion or two with LeBron on the floor. It gives you another option when he's off the floor.

The Cavs problem this year wasn't the offense, it's the defense.

I don't care much about Jordan vs the Warriors this year that much.

Lebron does though.


I guess he also doesn't care about Jordan versus anyone else?

In hindsight, I wish I didn't get switched to the Cavs, since you're clearly a fan of them. I just usually end up taking whatever teams nobody wants, because STIGGLES is the 76ers on this board. I got switched to the Cavs. Probably should've pushed for the Pelicans, a team with no first rounder.
   716. Oriole Tragic: doomed to mysterious ignomy Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:00 AM (#5691001)
NJ/JC and his Knickerbockers are on the clock at #9.

FIRST ROUND
1. Magic (from PHO) - Athletic Supporter - Luka Doncic, G, Real Madrid
2. Kings - smileyy - Deandre Ayton, F/C, Arizona
3. Hawks - Der-K - Jaren Jackson Jr., F/C, Michigan State (to DAL for #5)
4. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball - Michael Porter Jr., F, Missouri
5. Hawks - Der-K (from DAL) - Mohamed Bamba - C, Texas
6. Suns (from ORL) - Oriole Tragic - Wendell Carter Jr., C, Duke
7. Bulls - Moses - Marvin Bagley III, F/C, Duke
8. Cavs - stevegamer - Mikal Bridges, F/G, Villanova
9. Knicks - NJ/JC
10. 76ers - 57i66135
11. Hornets - Berg
12. Clippers - Thok
13. Suns (from LAC via CLE) - Oriole Tragic
14. Nuggets - Dandy
15. Wizards - Votto
16. Suns - Oriole Tragic
17. Bucks - Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw
18. Spurs - SouthSideRyan
19. Hawks - Der-K
20. Timberwolves - Mouse
21. Jazz - Booey/Cervo
22. Bulls - Moses
23. Pacers - Paste
24. Trailblazers
25. Lakers - Hombre/rr
26. 76ers - 57i66135
27. Celtics - MHS
28. Warriors - sardonic
29. Nets - JJ1986
30. Hawks - Der-K

SECOND ROUND
31. Magic - Athletic Supporter (from PHO)
32. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball
33. Hawks - Der-K (from DAL)
34. Hawks - Der-K
35. Suns - Oriole Tragic (from ORL)
36. Knicks - NJ/JC
37. Kings - smileyy
38. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless (from PHI)
39. 76ers - 57i66135
40. Nets - JJ1986
41. Magic - Athletic Supporter
42. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless
43. Nuggets - Dandy
44. Wizards -Votto
45. Nets - JJ1986
46. Rockets
47. Lakers - Hombre/rr
48. Timberwolves - Mouse
49. Spurs - SouthSideRyan
50. Pacers - Paste
51. Pelicans
52. Jazz - Booey/Cervo
53. Thunder - Fridas Boss
54. Mavericks - tshipman
55. Hornets - Berg
56. 76ers - 57i66135
57. Thunder - Fridas Boss
58. Nuggets - Dandy
59. Magic - Athletic Supporter (from PHO)
60. 76ers - 57i66135

Trades
ORL gets: #1 overall
PHO gets: #6 overall, ORL 2019-1 (unprotected)

LAC gets: Kevin Love
CLE gets: DeAndre Jordan, #13 overall

DET gets: Dario Saric, Jerryd Bayless, #38
PHI gets: Andre Drummond (!)

DAL gets: Jaren Jackson Jr., Dennis Schroder, Miles Plumlee
ATL gets: #5 and #33 overall, Wesley Matthews

ORL gets: #31 and #59 overall, Brandon Knight, Tyson Chandler
PHO gets: #35 overall, Bismack Biyombo, Terrence Ross

ORL gets: #13 overall, JR Smith
CLE gets: Marquese Chriss, Terrence Ross
   717. Oriole Tragic: doomed to mysterious ignomy Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:34 AM (#5691002)
Correction:

PHO gets: #13 overall, JR Smith
CLE gets: Marquese Chriss, Terrence Ross

   718. stevegamer Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:41 AM (#5691003)
Correction:
PHO gets: #13 overall, JR Smith
CLE gets: Marquese Chriss, Terrence Ross


Yes this is right, Ross came to the Suns from the Magic in an earlier trade. At first I thought I had typed PHX and that was the correction.

   719. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 06:54 AM (#5691011)
On a plane taking off so JC can explain but....Trae Young!
   720. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 13, 2018 at 07:43 AM (#5691017)
Is this a new article? Woj on Kawhi. Not a whole lot noteworthy or new, far as I can tell; mostly speculation. He does say:

The Boston Celtics made a trade offer to San Antonio before the February deadline, but the Spurs turned it down --- and never made a counterproposal, league sources said. San Antonio wasn't willing to discuss deals for Leonard in February. So far this spring, the Spurs remain resistant to trades.

The Los Angeles Lakers and Philadelphia 76ers have interest in Leonard, each with a differing array of young assets to trade for him now and the potential of salary-cap space to sign Leonard outright in 2019.
   721. JC in DC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 08:25 AM (#5691023)
In typical NYK dysfunctional fashion, team President NJinNY announced our pick as he stepped on the plane, leaving me, special advisor to the senior assistant GM, to explain the pick of Trae Young, with pick #9 in the 2018 draft.

In our internal discussions, we focused on a few players: W. Carter, Jr, Mikal Bridges, Lonnie Walker, and even Bagley, should he drop to us as BBTF seemed pretty down on him. We leaned WCJ, and had he fallen to us, we would've picked him as an obvious complement to KP. Lonnie Walker was our next choice: we love the athleticism and body, the willingness to shoot from the 2 would've been a good complement to Frank's deferential attitude and defensive focus. Then, however, it became clear that you fools were not going to pick Trae Young, possibly the most divisive prospect out there. In a league increasingly tilting towards PGs who can score from distance and handle the ball, and for "3 and D" types, y'all went heavy on body potential bigs with low basketball skillz, overlooking poor Trae. We simply can't pass up the upside at the #9 spot. The complement to Frank is obvious: Frank's length, defensive skill, and pass-first mentality fits perfectly with Trae, who also takes scoring pressure off KP. In addition, we're in talent collection mode: we have the 37th pick in this draft and we anticipate being back in the lottery next year, given the strong possibility KP plays only a little this year, if at all. We believe we can get more size and rim protection later in this draft or next year. But we have to take the flyer that Young becomes an AI or Curry type, even while he could also be Johnny Flynn, 2018.
   722. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 13, 2018 at 08:58 AM (#5691041)
Dang, I was trying to move up to get Trae. I think the Bucks are a perfect spot for him but he's a great pick for the Knicks too.
   723. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 13, 2018 at 09:04 AM (#5691043)
Lavine can't play the 3, but I know the Bulls are going to overpay to keep him - he was the centerpiece of the Butler trade dontchaknow - otherwise I would have given Young more thought. I do think a Dunn/Young backcourt could work, much in the same way the Knicks see theirs working.
   724. JC in DC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5691124)
Stiggles: you're up!
   725. tshipman Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5691139)
In our internal discussions, we focused on a few players: W. Carter, Jr, Mikal Bridges, Lonnie Walker, and even Bagley, should he drop to us as BBTF seemed pretty down on him. We leaned WCJ, and had he fallen to us, we would've picked him as an obvious complement to KP. Lonnie Walker was our next choice: we love the athleticism and body, the willingness to shoot from the 2 would've been a good complement to Frank's deferential attitude and defensive focus. Then, however, it became clear that you fools were not going to pick Trae Young, possibly the most divisive prospect out there. In a league increasingly tilting towards PGs who can score from distance and handle the ball, and for "3 and D" types, y'all went heavy on body potential bigs with low basketball skillz, overlooking poor Trae. We simply can't pass up the upside at the #9 spot. The complement to Frank is obvious: Frank's length, defensive skill, and pass-first mentality fits perfectly with Trae, who also takes scoring pressure off KP. In addition, we're in talent collection mode: we have the 37th pick in this draft and we anticipate being back in the lottery next year, given the strong possibility KP plays only a little this year, if at all. We believe we can get more size and rim protection later in this draft or next year. But we have to take the flyer that Young becomes an AI or Curry type, even while he could also be Johnny Flynn, 2018.


Yeah, this is what I was getting at on the last page. There's what, like a 10% chance Trae Young is Steph Curry? Even if there's a 50% chance that Ayton is Valanciunas, it's just so much more valuable to have Steph Curry than Jonas.

I feel like in real life, Trae Young is going to drop too far, as well. He might be the highest variance player in the draft.
   726. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5691173)
Yeah, I completely agree tshipman. Granted I'm looking at it through the lens of the Bucks (ie a team that badly needs shooting) but I think his gravity has the potential to completely open up an offense. Therefore it's worth it to take a gamble on his tiny frame and bad defense, because the upside is so high. I don't see how most of these big guys have that potential.
   727. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:25 AM (#5691183)
There’s functionally a 0% chance Trae Young is Steph Curry. There’s maybe a 10% chance he’s Damian Lillard. He’s one of the few dudes in this draft who looks likely to be an NBA starter, but I think he’s most likely not going to be a star. His stock’s overvalued because this draft class is so weak and because everyone’s always looking for the next Steph Curry.
   728. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5691191)
I get that Steph Curry is 100% an outlier but still, out of every 19-year-old we've seen post-Curry, Trae's got the best shot of getting there. And as Curry is probably the most irreplaceable offensive piece in the NBA, I think it's worth a gamble.
   729. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:32 AM (#5691193)
sixers take SHAI GILGEOUS-ALEXANDER

Charlotte (berg) is up now at #11.
FIRST ROUND
1. Magic (from PHO) - Athletic Supporter - Luka Doncic, G, Real Madrid
2. Kings - smileyy - Deandre Ayton, F/C, Arizona
3. Hawks - Der-K - Jaren Jackson Jr., F/C, Michigan State (to DAL for #5)
4. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball - Michael Porter Jr., F, Missouri
5. Hawks - Der-K (from DAL) - Mohamed Bamba - C, Texas
6. Suns (from ORL) - Oriole Tragic - Wendell Carter Jr., C, Duke
7. Bulls - Moses - Marvin Bagley III, F/C, Duke
8. Cavs - stevegamer - Mikal Bridges, F/G, Villanova
9. Knicks - NJ/JC - Trae Young, G, Oklahoma
10. 76ers - 57i66135 - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, G, Kentucky
11. Hornets - Berg
12. Clippers - Thok
13. Suns (from LAC via CLE) - Oriole Tragic
14. Nuggets - Dandy
15. Wizards - Votto
16. Suns - Oriole Tragic
17. Bucks - Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw
18. Spurs - SouthSideRyan
19. Hawks - Der-K
20. Timberwolves - Mouse
21. Jazz - Booey/Cervo
22. Bulls - Moses
23. Pacers - Paste
24. Trailblazers
25. Lakers - Hombre/rr
26. 76ers - 57i66135
27. Celtics - MHS
28. Warriors - sardonic
29. Nets - JJ1986
30. Hawks - Der-K

SECOND ROUND
31. Magic - Athletic Supporter (from PHO)
32. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball
33. Hawks - Der-K (from DAL)
34. Hawks - Der-K
35. Suns - Oriole Tragic (from ORL)
36. Knicks - NJ/JC
37. Kings - smileyy
38. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless (from PHI)
39. 76ers - 57i66135
40. Nets - JJ1986
41. Magic - Athletic Supporter
42. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless
43. Nuggets - Dandy
44. Wizards -Votto
45. Nets - JJ1986
46. Rockets
47. Lakers - Hombre/rr
48. Timberwolves - Mouse
49. Spurs - SouthSideRyan
50. Pacers - Paste
51. Pelicans
52. Jazz - Booey/Cervo
53. Thunder - Fridas Boss
54. Mavericks - tshipman
55. Hornets - Berg
56. 76ers - 57i66135
57. Thunder - Fridas Boss
58. Nuggets - Dandy
59. Magic - Athletic Supporter (from PHO)
60. 76ers - 57i66135

Trades
ORL gets: #1 overall
PHO gets: #6 overall, ORL 2019-1 (unprotected)

LAC gets: Kevin Love
CLE gets: DeAndre Jordan, #13 overall

DET gets: Dario Saric, Jerryd Bayless, #38
PHI gets: Andre Drummond (!)

DAL gets: Jaren Jackson Jr., Dennis Schroder, Miles Plumlee
ATL gets: #5 and #33 overall, Wesley Matthews

ORL gets: #31 and #59 overall, Brandon Knight, Tyson Chandler
PHO gets: #35 overall, Bismack Biyombo, Terrence Ross

PHO gets: #13 overall, JR Smith
CLE gets: Marquese Chriss, Terrence Ross
   730. JJ1986 Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:35 AM (#5691198)
The Hornets select Grayson Allen, wing, Duke University.

Edit: this is a joke.
   731. Willard Baseball Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:35 AM (#5691199)
Trae Young lead the nation in turnovers and cannot defend or rebound. I don't think he can be a starter on a playoff team. He might eventually be a Jamal Crawford or Vinny Johnson top of scoring guard off the bench, but teams will abuse him defensively and he has to work pretty hard to get off mediocre shots.
   732. tshipman Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5691206)
Trae Young lead the nation in turnovers and cannot defend or rebound.


High turnovers are an extremely positive sign for a young player. I know that this is a little counterintuitive, but it's one of the best predictors of passing.

He might eventually be a Jamal Crawford or Vinny Johnson top of scoring guard off the bench, but teams will abuse him defensively and he has to work pretty hard to get off mediocre shots.


1. You could easily write the same line about Steph, but they're not mediocre shots when Steph takes them. Obviously, Young has to prove that.
2. He's really good at catch and shoot 3pers. I heard this on Dunc'd on, so I don't have the cite, but he shot over 40% on C&S 3pers, so he has a backup plan as a player.
   733. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5691216)
The Curry comps are hard because he's such a unicorn. It's like comparing someone to LeBron or Barry Bonds or whatever. The odds of anyone reaching that peak even if you're cut from the same cloth is basically nil.

But Curry had a bit better but similar rebounding stats. Curry shot 3s at a similar rate, and made more of them. I think early in his career more of them were catch and shoot vs what Young did. Curry was better from 2, but not much better, and Young gets to the free throw line more and had way more assists. Curry also had reasonably high turnovers his junior year when he played PG (3.7game). Curry was expected to be a sieve defensively, I think (at least by me), and I think he's an above average defensive PG due to his length and smarts.

Young did it in a much tougher conference. The biggest question I think is the efficiency of the 3 for him. If he's a 35% guy, he'll probably just be a microwave off the bench. If he's 40%, he could be an all-star. Not exactly mind blowing analysis, but I think the margins for these kind of guys are pretty razor thin for going from a chucker to being a guy that can carry a good offense. Young's efficiency cratered through the season, as I recall. I didn't watch enough to know if that was playing better teams, taking too bad of shots, or just bad luck. His free throw percentage and tough shot making suggests he could easily be an elite shooter. Lillard wasn't that elite of a shooter in college either, especially his first 3 years.

Yeah, I'd take the risk on Young, probably pretty highly up.
   734. tshipman Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5691223)
Young did it in a much tougher conference. The biggest question I think is the efficiency of the 3 for him. If he's a 35% guy, he'll probably just be a microwave off the bench. If he's 40%, he could be an all-star. Not exactly mind blowing analysis, but I think the margins for these kind of guys are pretty razor thin for going from a chucker to being a guy that can carry a good offense. Young's efficiency cratered through the season, as I recall. I didn't watch enough to know if that was playing better teams, taking too bad of shots, or just bad luck. His free throw percentage and tough shot making suggests he could easily be an elite shooter. Lillard wasn't that elite of a shooter in college either, especially his first 3 years.


I agree with all of this, but would add that specifically it's the off the dribble 3 that matters. Curry/Harden/Lillard all weaponizing the off the dribble 3 is what's enabled some of this explosion of offense.

If Trae Young hits 33% of those, then he's a nice backup PG. If he hits 37% of them, he's a dangerous weapon (because he's likely to be over 40% on C-&-S). That part is the big unknown.
   735. Booey Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:06 PM (#5691226)
Speaking of Curry, there was a Reddit post from a fan asking why the other 4 Warriors on the floor don't just link arms and form a protective circle around Steph to get him uncontested 3's. It got lots of support from other fans chiming in that's it's brilliant and that Kerr is an idiot for not trying that.

Some refs chimed in though and burst the bubble by mentioning that it would be an illegal screen if a defender made contact with the circle (which would almost certainly have to be moving to stay around Curry). Ah well. It was a nice thought (you know, in that ridiculous, mockery-of-the-game sort of way).
   736. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:08 PM (#5691228)
If you guys are Cleaning the Glass members, this article informed a lot of my thinking on Trae. The general finding is that his shooting percentage is low because he shot a ton of super deep 3s. He shot 41% on 3s inside of 30 feet, despite chucking a bunch off the dribble and while tightly guarded.
   737. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5691230)
Speaking of Curry, there was a Reddit post from a fan asking why the other 4 Warriors on the floor don't just link arms and form a protective circle around Steph to get him uncontested 3's.


There was a good Deadspin post on this, and the comments are pretty golden too.
   738. aberg Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:17 PM (#5691235)
The Hornets have been extremely average for the last couple of years. They have ranged between 14-16 in both ORTG and DRTG both years and finished outside of the playoffs each season. They have obvious strengths and weaknesses- great at limiting turnovers, getting to the line, defensive rebounding, and not fouling; terrible at forcing turnovers and shooting and preventing threes. They actually shoot threes at an above average rate, but ranked 21st in attempts, which suppressed their eFG%. They also gave up high shooting percentages on both 2s and 3s to their opponents.

The roster construction is quite awkward. They have four centers who range between fair to good (Howard, Zeller, Kaminsky, Hernangomez). We discussed how strange it was to pay Dwight big money to see if he could defy the odds and regain star form with Clifford coaching him again. Despite a bump in usage, almost nothing changed. Now Clifford is gone and Dwight is still soaking up $23m+ for another year while the younger guys don't get to play as much.

With Batum making about $75m over the next three years, Zeller at 3/45, and Marvin locked in for the next two at $29m, there's not much hope to urgently clear the decks. The team is probably better off drafting someone who can theoretically fit a team with Batum and Kemba, but with enough upside to fit if Kemba was eventually moved. In other words, draft the best player available, but don't give bonus points to PGs (it helps that I'm not in love with Sexton's game).

The wing situation is so-so. Batum is decent and he's not going anywhere. MKG cannot shoot, but his defense makes him a worthwhile player. I am considering him as a stretch PF for more minutes next year since Marvin is the only other PF on the roster. Monk and Lamb are both rotation wings who deserve to play. With Batum at one wing, MKG playing more four, and Monk and Lamb getting ~20 mpg, that leaves lots of time at the wing for a young player to develop.

With weaknesses in the areas of shooting threes and forcing turnovers, I want an athlete who can shoot. Miles Bridges is a possible option as a sort of Marvin clone, but he has a long way to go to become a really good outside shooter and if that doesn't develop, he looks like a pretty pedestrian modern PF to me. Zhaire Smith is a highly attractive prospect with his great length and athleticism creating defensive disruption. I like his offensive explosion, and he actually shot a good percentage on threes last year, but he has funky mechanics and didn't attempt many threes, which makes me concerned about his ability to translate that skill.

Therefore, the pick is Lonnie Walker. I think he can play in lineups with almost any combination of the existing wings or Marvin on this roster. He shot a huge volume of threes at pedestrian accuracy, but he has nice mechanics and spent the early part of the year recovering from an earlier meniscus surgery (not a removal, as far as I can tell, so less long-term concern). He has a lot of the same length and athleticism that Smith would offer as a disruptive wing defender, but I think his offensive game is more NBA ready with a higher chance of reaching its peak due to his better shooting form.

Other strengths: really good body control allows him to absorb contact both off the dribble and at the rim to finish in the lane. Seems to have an instinct for keeping guys in front of him defensively, staying in good guarding position. Stats are ok, but don't tell the whole story because they brought him along slowly after injury recovery.
   739. aberg Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:18 PM (#5691236)
FIRST ROUND
1. Magic (from PHO) - Athletic Supporter - Luka Doncic, G, Real Madrid
2. Kings - smileyy - Deandre Ayton, F/C, Arizona
3. Hawks - Der-K - Jaren Jackson Jr., F/C, Michigan State (to DAL for #5)
4. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball - Michael Porter Jr., F, Missouri
5. Hawks - Der-K (from DAL) - Mohamed Bamba - C, Texas
6. Suns (from ORL) - Oriole Tragic - Wendell Carter Jr., C, Duke
7. Bulls - Moses - Marvin Bagley III, F/C, Duke
8. Cavs - stevegamer - Mikal Bridges, F/G, Villanova
9. Knicks - NJ/JC - Trae Young, G, Oklahoma
10. 76ers - 57i66135 - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, G, Kentucky
11. Hornets - Berg - Lonnie Walker, G/F, Miami
12. Clippers - Thok
13. Suns (from LAC via CLE) - Oriole Tragic
14. Nuggets - Dandy
15. Wizards - Votto
16. Suns - Oriole Tragic
17. Bucks - Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw
18. Spurs - SouthSideRyan
19. Hawks - Der-K
20. Timberwolves - Mouse
21. Jazz - Booey/Cervo
22. Bulls - Moses
23. Pacers - Paste
24. Trailblazers
25. Lakers - Hombre/rr
26. 76ers - 57i66135
27. Celtics - MHS
28. Warriors - sardonic
29. Nets - JJ1986
30. Hawks - Der-K

SECOND ROUND
31. Magic - Athletic Supporter (from PHO)
32. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball
33. Hawks - Der-K (from DAL)
34. Hawks - Der-K
35. Suns - Oriole Tragic (from ORL)
36. Knicks - NJ/JC
37. Kings - smileyy
38. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless (from PHI)
39. 76ers - 57i66135
40. Nets - JJ1986
41. Magic - Athletic Supporter
42. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless
43. Nuggets - Dandy
44. Wizards -Votto
45. Nets - JJ1986
46. Rockets
47. Lakers - Hombre/rr
48. Timberwolves - Mouse
49. Spurs - SouthSideRyan
50. Pacers - Paste
51. Pelicans
52. Jazz - Booey/Cervo
53. Thunder - Fridas Boss
54. Mavericks - tshipman
55. Hornets - Berg
56. 76ers - 57i66135
57. Thunder - Fridas Boss
58. Nuggets - Dandy
59. Magic - Athletic Supporter (from PHO)
60. 76ers - 57i66135

Trades
ORL gets: #1 overall
PHO gets: #6 overall, ORL 2019-1 (unprotected)

LAC gets: Kevin Love
CLE gets: DeAndre Jordan, #13 overall

DET gets: Dario Saric, Jerryd Bayless, #38
PHI gets: Andre Drummond (!)

DAL gets: Jaren Jackson Jr., Dennis Schroder, Miles Plumlee
ATL gets: #5 and #33 overall, Wesley Matthews

ORL gets: #31 and #59 overall, Brandon Knight, Tyson Chandler
PHO gets: #35 overall, Bismack Biyombo, Terrence Ross

PHO gets: #13 overall, JR Smith
CLE gets: Marquese Chriss, Terrence Ross
   740. aberg Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5691237)
For the record, I really like Zhaire Smith and would have been happy to wind up with him.

Thok is on the clock for the Clippers.
   741. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:22 PM (#5691242)
I’m not opposed to trading Leonard I just couldn’t see a fit anywhere as I’m not interested in just dumping him and couldn’t see why a bad team would want him for young assets.
   742. aberg Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:24 PM (#5691244)
But Curry had a bit better but similar rebounding stats. Curry shot 3s at a similar rate, and made more of them. I think early in his career more of them were catch and shoot vs what Young did. Curry was better from 2, but not much better, and Young gets to the free throw line more and had way more assists. Curry also had reasonably high turnovers his junior year when he played PG (3.7game). Curry was expected to be a sieve defensively, I think (at least by me), and I think he's an above average defensive PG due to his length and smarts.



Curry also remade his body in the NBA. After a couple of years as a good-not-great and injury-prone combo guard, he worked like crazy and built an incredibly strong lower half. He's very good off the dribble because he can do stuff in the lane- getting to the rim, shooting floaters- that a weaker player probably couldn't execute. That penetration allows him the marginal centimeters he needs to get those pull-up threes off. Maybe Young can follow that lead, but comparing their college stats leaves a lot out of the comparison.
   743. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5691250)
The Hornets would be a playoff team in the East, possibly a second round team, if they would just get rid of Dwight Howard.
   744. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5691252)
i took shai for a few reasons:

1: SGA, fultz and simmons should be able to play together in any combination, ensuring that the sixers will have at least two capable playmakers on the court at all times.

2: SGA's intelligence is as good as anyone in this class and his work ethic is off the charts. i think those are two of the strongest indicators of NBA longevity.

3: the last handful of first round picks that have similar physical profiles (6'5+, ~147 lbs) to SGA (exum, ball, MCW, murray, wright) are some of the best defensive PGs in the league, and i think it's likely that SGA will have similar success.

4: SGA fits the style of play that we saw in the playoffs this year. he can defend multiple positions on defense, he can shoot, dribble and pass on offense, and he makes FTs.

5: FWIW, i'd have taken SGA over carter, bridges, trae, and probably bamba.
   745. JJ1986 Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:36 PM (#5691254)
The Hornets would be a playoff team in the East, possibly a second round team, if they would just get rid of Dwight Howard.
Charlotte was pretty decent with its starters on the floor. They played a bench mob, and at times that was a terrible unit, especially when Zeller was out.
   746. Stevey Posted: June 13, 2018 at 01:23 PM (#5691291)
You can dump the ball into the post for a possesion or two with LeBron on the floor


Last year, Jordan averaged 1.5 post ups per night and scored .277 points per post touch. Both are ... less than stellar. You cannot run an offense through Jordan.

I guess he also doesn't care about Jordan versus anyone else?


Non-sequitur. He'll be fine with guys who excel against other talents, but not with a guy who is such a liability against the one team you need to beat to get a ring. The Rockets revamped themselves to be able to match up specifically with the Warriors. The Cavs, if they want to (and can) keep Lebron, have to too.

   747. aberg Posted: June 13, 2018 at 01:30 PM (#5691299)
Last year, Jordan averaged 1.5 post ups per night and scored .277 points per post touch. Both are ... less than stellar. You cannot run an offense through Jordan.


Jordan is a more prolific roll man than anyone the Cavs had last year. Tristan Thompson and Larry Nance have no more range than Jordan and neither finishes as well as him, yet the Cavs maintained a good offense when those guys share the floor with Lebron. If the thing you are describing happens and Jordan's defender just cheats off of him to Lebron every time he tries to get to the rim, Jordan will have a huge increase in dunks because Lebron is phenomenal at maneuvering around defenders to make passes to open guys.

Is Jordan better than Love? Probably not, but it's also harder to attack him defensively. Getting a lotto pick that he flipped for an interesting prospect in Criss adds to the value in that trade. I think there are reasonable arguments on both sides, but I don't think it's so obviously bad.
   748. tshipman Posted: June 13, 2018 at 01:37 PM (#5691306)
Jordan is a more prolific roll man than anyone the Cavs had last year. Tristan Thompson and Larry Nance have no more range than Jordan and neither finishes as well as him, yet the Cavs maintained a good offense when those guys share the floor with Lebron. If the thing you are describing happens and Jordan's defender just cheats off of him to Lebron every time he tries to get to the rim, Jordan will have a huge increase in dunks because Lebron is phenomenal at maneuvering around defenders to make passes to open guys.


One weird thing about LeBron is that he's never played with a big time roll man. TT almost never rolls (which is good because he's not great at it).

All of LeBron's bigs have been pop guys--Ilgauskas, Bosh, Varajao, Love, etc.

You have to wonder if that's an accident or not. Harden is the flip side of this, where he basically always plays with a guy who rolls hard. Clearly both can work, maybe LeBron has defined preferences, maybe he doesn't.
   749. JC in DC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5691326)
aberg: The Knicks brass really liked Walker as well. I don't know how he'd develop on the real Hornets (or Knicks), but NJ and I liked his potential a ton.
   750. aberg Posted: June 13, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5691329)
edit- double
   751. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 13, 2018 at 02:06 PM (#5691336)
Once again for posterity and so you can all laugh at how hilariously wrong I am, continuing my impressions of the prospects purely from perusing online scouting reports:

MIKAL BRIDGES: I like him as a 3-and-D wing player, but with him being 21 you have to figure the upside is limited. He looks likely to be basically Robert Covington: providing good switchy defense, the ability to hit the spot-up three if he's left open out there, and that's about it. In theory that makes him comfortably a lottery pick this year, but in practice he'll fit in far better working his way into a decent team's rotation than being expected to be an upcoming star on a bad team. If he slid past pick 7 or so I'd start thinking about trading up from the mid-late first for him.

TRAE YOUNG: Comparisons to Steph Curry are ridiculous and unrealistic and based on his reports and stats I think his stock is too high because this draft is so weak and because looks at little guys who can shoot and dreams of the next Steph Curry. Maybe he turns into Damian Lillard. I think more likely he turns into Lou Williams, a heat-check guy off the bench who isn't consistent or dynamic enough to live with nonexistent defense for 35 minutes a night.

SHAI GILGEOUS-ALEXANDER: It's probably somewhat irrational on my part, but I get excited when the weaknesses section of a guy's scouting report basically amounts to, "he looks weird on the court." It made me rightly high on Myles Turner a few years back, but also wrongly high on Lonzo Ball last year. But this dude works hard, plays team basketball and seems a good bet to play strong switchy defense in the NBA. His college stats are very good. His shot looks strange. But even if he can't shoot in the NBA he looks like a good bet to have a career in someone's rotation, and I think there's NBA starter upside here. I'd like him a LOT more if he didn't have such a preposterously stupid hairdo. Yes, I'm serious. And get the hell off my lawn.

LONNIE WALKER: Has the tools to be a good perimeter defender, but is going to kill your offense with his chucking. So basically, if things break right he'll become Little Marcus Morris. No thanks.
   752. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: June 13, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5691374)
Stiggles, would you rather have Gary Harris or Robert Covington?
   753. JC in DC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 02:30 PM (#5691379)
I kinda strongly disagree with those takes, Paste.
   754. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 13, 2018 at 02:33 PM (#5691387)
Well, yeah, I think everyone does. Most likely they are pretty stupid takes. I'll need to look back on them after a couple years and find out just how stupid and ponder why.

e: I don't think I was clear enough on this above, but in this particular draft I'd probably take Trae Young up at 4th or 5th. There is at least a little bit of star potential there and that's something this draft is very short on, IMO.
   755. Oriole Tragic: doomed to mysterious ignomy Posted: June 13, 2018 at 02:45 PM (#5691405)
@751/PASTE: The Lou Williams comp seems sensible. Lou went in #45 of a top-heavy but not super-stacked draft, but IDK if anyone thought Lou had Steph/Dame-type upside, at the time.

Back of the top 10 for maybe-Dame-probably-Lou seems like a decent bet.
   756. tshipman Posted: June 13, 2018 at 02:57 PM (#5691420)
I think Lou Williams is a decent comp for Trae Young. Lou Will is a really good player in today's NBA, though.

Like, would you rather have Lou Williams or Jonas Valanciunas/Nic Vucevic?
   757. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:19 PM (#5691441)
sixers current outlook (players likely to play 15+ MPG in bold):
PG: simmons // SGA, mcconnell
SG: fultz // TLC
SF: covington // anderson, korkmaz
PF: drummond // bolden
C: embiid // holmes


obviously, there's still work to do. hopefully, belinelli and ilyasova would come back on the cheap to add depth, shooting and bench scoring. plus there's still ~10MM in cap room to use in a trade or FA signing, and the MLE.

one of the things i love about this roster, even while it's incomplete, is that 5 minutes into any half, you could go from this lineup...:
simmons / fultz / covington / drummond / embiid
to this one...:
mcconnell / fultz / SGA / covington / simmons
just to #### with people.

the versatility in the personnel means that you can go from supersized twin towers lineups to smallball lineups with 4 PGs to 3P-heavy belinelli/ilyasova lineups, without needing a 12 man rotation, or NHL style line changes.

imagine preparing to defend pick and rolls against this team. a simmons/embiid pnr is completely different from a mcconnell/drummond pnr or a fultz/ilyasova pnr or an SGA/simmons pnr.

the 3P shooting isn't great, but if mcconnell/fultz/SGA can get the ball on the rim, drummond/embiid/simmons/ilyosova can chase it down when it clanks.
   758. MHS Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:23 PM (#5691444)
Young is a no brainer at 9. I think I’m about as skeptical as anyone on him but that is great value.

I like the SGA pick a lot. I don’t think I’d have the assets but If he was still around in the mid/late teens I would have tried to trade up for him. I like him lot as a player.

I really dislike Bridges. I think he is pretty much maxed out physically, has a bunch of important weaknesses and is currently a worse version of Robert Covington with obvious ways to get better. Further, I think his defensive versatility is overrated since I don’t think he will be able to guard good initiators or bigs.

I think their are several wings who will be around at the end of round 1 who have a decent shot at being better than him, and several wings on the board who I like a lot more.
   759. jmurph Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:23 PM (#5691447)
That Sixers starting lineup would sure draw a lot of illegal defense technical free throws because teams would pack the hell out of the paint.
   760. JC in DC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:23 PM (#5691448)
What I would like to see is someone trace the development of players over the last decade, comparing the one and done and 18/19 y/os to the guys who came into the NBA a little older, the 20/21 y/os. Is it true, as we seem to assume, that a guy like Mk Bridges who's coming out older, is less likely to have a lot of development than a guy like Bamba or Walker, or Young, who's coming out at 19 or so? IOW, is the young guy's ceiling really higher, just because he's young? I don't know the answer, I have a suspicion that we exaggerate the impact of those couple of years, and think it would be relevant to how teams draft. Maybe something like this has already been done?
   761. MHS Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:27 PM (#5691450)
mcconnell / fultz / SGA / covington / simmons


That is not a good lineup.

Also, why would an SGA/Simons pick and roll scare anyone? Just go under. Also, I’m not sure SGA’s passing is all that polished at this point.
   762. JC in DC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5691451)
Yeah, STIGGLES: that starting lineup is a bunch of bricklayers. I mean, you're talking about at least three guys who actively cannot shoot the basketball and actually have issues shooting.
   763. tshipman Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5691452)
the 3P shooting isn't great


Understatement of the century.
   764. SPICEY WITH A SIDE OF BEER ON A BABYYYYYYY Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5691454)
Disclaimer that I only watched a couple of Trae Young games, but statistically I think the Lillard/Lou Williams comparisons aren't fair. Trae Young averaged 8.7 assists/game in college as a freshman. That's stupid high - it was almost a full assist higher than anyone else in college, the next 3 people were seniors, and the next freshman was at 6.3.

Lou Williams is also less than a 35% 3 point shooter for his career, and doesn't look to shoot them at near the rate we should expect Young to shoot them. So, basically, I think he projects to be a more efficient, more floor spacing, better passing Lou Williams.
   765. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:30 PM (#5691455)
Wouldn't a better comp for Young be Kyle Lowry?
   766. JC in DC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5691460)
Young is a much better shooter than Lowry was. I think the Curry comparison is fair: the point is not that you're projecting him to BECOME Curry, but he's a Curry-type of player: he can run the point, he has good vision, and he has sick depth on his shot. Will he translate into the NBA? Tough to know. He's smaller than Steph, he's going to have obvious difficulty on defense, and there's the ever-present development issue. Is this as good as he'll ever be, or will his game grow?
   767. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5691461)
Young is a much better shooter than Lowry was. I think the Curry comparison is fair: the point is not that you're projecting him to BECOME Curry, but he's a Curry-type of player: he can run the point, he has good vision, and he has sick depth on his shot. Will he translate into the NBA? Tough to know. He's smaller than Steph, he's going to have obvious difficulty on defense, and there's the ever-present development issue. Is this as good as he'll ever be, or will his game grow?


Yea I was thinking of late vintage Lowry, the last three seasons Lowry is shooting almost 7 threes a game and making about 39%. That's the sort of elite volume and efficiency you'd hope that Young would provide within a season or two. Lowry is a dog at times as well. I think Young has some of that motor in him.

Young anywhere outside the top 5 is great value imo. I'd be content if he's Chicago's pick.
   768. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: June 13, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5691462)
I think Lou Williams is a decent comp for Trae Young. Lou Will is a really good player in today's NBA, though.
there's a guy in this draft who comps pretty well to lou williams, but it's not trae young (it's keenan evans). trae turns the ball over too much and he doesn't draw the right kind of fouls for a louwill comp to stick.

the comp i like for young is jose calderon. at his peak, calderon had a similar combination of shooting, passing and terrible defense. young's usage is higher, but i think calderon's usage was artificially limited by his era and role.
Stiggles, would you rather have Gary Harris or Robert Covington?

in a vacuum, i'd generally prefer harris's youth and creation ability. in this situation, i think the sixers need covington.
   769. tshipman Posted: June 13, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5691487)
Wouldn't a better comp for Young be Kyle Lowry?


Lowry's a good defender tho
   770. Thok Posted: June 13, 2018 at 04:08 PM (#5691490)
With the 12th pick, the Clippers select Robert Williams from Texas A&M.
   771. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: June 13, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5691491)
in a vacuum, i'd generally prefer harris's youth and creation ability. in this situation, i think the sixers need covington.

Fair enough. SGA might be an awkward fit on the Sixers, but I still like the pick. Ball handlers with his length and skill level are rare, much more so than centers who can score inside the arc and rebound but not defend (or who can protect the rim and rebound but not shoot, pass, or defend in space).
   772. Willard Baseball Posted: June 13, 2018 at 04:10 PM (#5691492)
tshipman

If Dallas is rebuilding, interested in swapping Harrison Barnes for Chandler Parsons, #32, and next year's 2nd?

My owner came out and said he wants 50 wins this year, and Barnes is a big upgrade over Parsons. And now Cuban could have someone to party with.
   773. tshipman Posted: June 13, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5691497)
If Dallas is rebuilding, interested in swapping Harrison Barnes for Chandler Parsons, #32, and next year's 2nd?


You need multiple firsts to get rid of Chandler Parsons.

Barnes is relatively neutral on his contract, Parsons is the worst in the league.
   774. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: June 13, 2018 at 04:27 PM (#5691509)
Suns / Oriole Tragic, let me know if you're interested in a trade. Something along the line of #14, Faried/Plumlee, & Beasley/Hernangomez for JR Smith, #13, and #16.
   775. MHS Posted: June 13, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5691521)
Suprised to see Williams go this early. Not that I think he is a bad prospect, but I thought it was likely he would slip pretty materially, maybe even a small percentage of the time make it to 27. Glad I’m wrong on this one.

I actually did some work on him, in the event that he did and like him, I think he has as good combination of skills. I’m worried about his motor but his physical tools are really interesting.



   776. tshipman Posted: June 13, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5691522)
Really cool piece by ESPN. My favorites are

LAL
MEM
POR
DEN
CLT
   777. JC in DC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5691540)
CLT=Celtics?
   778. jmurph Posted: June 13, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5691542)
Really cool piece by ESPN. My favorites are

Oh I love the Wolves one. Lakers, too.
   779. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 13, 2018 at 04:47 PM (#5691545)
CLT=Charlotte
   780. tshipman Posted: June 13, 2018 at 04:47 PM (#5691546)
CLT=Celtics?


Charlotte.

Oh I love the Wolves one


I love the art, I think the slogan kinda needs work. How is, "Thibs will run you into the ground" an effective recruiting pitch?
   781. jmurph Posted: June 13, 2018 at 04:48 PM (#5691549)
I love the art, I think the slogan kinda needs work. How is, "Thibs will run you into the ground" an effective recruiting pitch?

Ha, the art was so great I didn't even notice that.
   782. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: June 13, 2018 at 05:29 PM (#5691589)
mcconnell / fultz / SGA / covington / simmons
That is not a good lineup

it doesn't have to be.

the way i see it, cycling through a bunch of different lineups and styles within every game will create mismatches and force defensive errors, and eventually one of these weirdo lineups will go on an 18-5 run because the opponent isn't prepared to defend it.
   783. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: June 13, 2018 at 05:54 PM (#5691606)
Really cool piece by ESPN. My favorites are

LAL
MEM
POR
DEN
CLT
the sixers one is so close to being great.

it's a shame the artist doesn't know how to draw arms or how to color black people or understand that a ####### iphone isn't bigger joel embiid's head. and for whatever reason he put rocky, some random furry (???) and cisco (?) in the back of the boat. also, the background is a wasted opportunity, both in the painting and around it.
   784. Booey Posted: June 13, 2018 at 06:16 PM (#5691617)
I like the Jazz one. Needs some Gobert, though.
   785. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: June 13, 2018 at 06:35 PM (#5691622)
cisco (?)
okay, apparently it's spelled sisqo.

i'm still not sure why he's there.
   786. Oriole Tragic: doomed to mysterious ignomy Posted: June 13, 2018 at 06:52 PM (#5691628)
@Dandy I'm not going give up two first-rounders for one, and I really don't need any of those players a lot more than I need JR Smith (whom I plan to buy out for around $3M after the 2018 season.) It's also fine if JR helps PHO continue to be a bad team, because I'd like PHO to be in the lottery again next year.

That said, I like Faried more than most, so if you have your heart set on the 13th pick, then we can do a challenge trade to get you up to #13:

PHO gets: #14 and Faried
DEN gets: #13 and JR Smith

You can add Beasley if it helps with salaries, otherwise go ahead and hold on to him.

Edit: @Dandy just FYI, I was planning to make my pick inside of 30 mins from now.
   787. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: June 13, 2018 at 08:30 PM (#5691707)
Oriole, I couldn't do that. JR Smith is more expensive, for more years, a worse player, and a malcontent. My rationale for the trade was to get 2 picks because there are 2 players I like roughly equally. Sorry for the delay in responding.
   788. Oriole Tragic: doomed to mysterious ignomy Posted: June 13, 2018 at 08:55 PM (#5691732)
PHO selects Z. SMITH.
   789. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 13, 2018 at 09:03 PM (#5691740)
I think I would be much higher on Smith if a better run team than Phoenix got hold of him.
   790. this is normal 57i66135. move on, find a new slant Posted: June 13, 2018 at 09:18 PM (#5691749)
zhaire smith's offensive rebounding is pornographic.

if i had found any evidence that he could dribble, i'd have taken him instead of SGA.

   791. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 13, 2018 at 09:54 PM (#5691769)
Yeah, I like Zhaire too. A lot of mocks have him going to the Bucks and I probably would've grabbed him for them if he was still there, under the assumption that Budenholzer's coach squad could teach him how to shoot.
   792. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:00 PM (#5691773)
FIRST ROUND
1. Magic (from PHO) - Athletic Supporter - Luka Doncic, G, Real Madrid
2. Kings - smileyy - Deandre Ayton, F/C, Arizona
3. Hawks - Der-K - Jaren Jackson Jr., F/C, Michigan State (to DAL for #5)
4. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball - Michael Porter Jr., F, Missouri
5. Hawks - Der-K (from DAL) - Mohamed Bamba - C, Texas
6. Suns (from ORL) - Oriole Tragic - Wendell Carter Jr., C, Duke
7. Bulls - Moses - Marvin Bagley III, F/C, Duke
8. Cavs - stevegamer - Mikal Bridges, F/G, Villanova
9. Knicks - NJ/JC - Trae Young, G, Oklahoma
10. 76ers - 57i66135 - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, G, Kentucky
11. Hornets - Berg - Lonnie Walker, G/F, Miami
12. Clippers - Thok - Robert Williams, F/C, Texas A&M
13. Suns (from LAC via CLE) - Oriole Tragic - Zhaire Smith, SF, Texas Tech
14. Nuggets - Dandy
15. Wizards - Votto
16. Suns - Oriole Tragic
17. Bucks - Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw
18. Spurs - SouthSideRyan
19. Hawks - Der-K
20. Timberwolves - Mouse
21. Jazz - Booey/Cervo
22. Bulls - Moses
23. Pacers - Paste
24. Trailblazers
25. Lakers - Hombre/rr
26. 76ers - 57i66135
27. Celtics - MHS
28. Warriors - sardonic
29. Nets - JJ1986
30. Hawks - Der-K

SECOND ROUND
31. Magic - Athletic Supporter (from PHO)
32. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball
33. Hawks - Der-K (from DAL)
34. Hawks - Der-K
35. Suns - Oriole Tragic (from ORL)
36. Knicks - NJ/JC
37. Kings - smileyy
38. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless (from PHI)
39. 76ers - 57i66135
40. Nets - JJ1986
41. Magic - Athletic Supporter
42. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless
43. Nuggets - Dandy
44. Wizards -Votto
45. Nets - JJ1986
46. Rockets
47. Lakers - Hombre/rr
48. Timberwolves - Mouse
49. Spurs - SouthSideRyan
50. Pacers - Paste
51. Pelicans
52. Jazz - Booey/Cervo
53. Thunder - Fridas Boss
54. Mavericks - tshipman
55. Hornets - Berg
56. 76ers - 57i66135
57. Thunder - Fridas Boss
58. Nuggets - Dandy
59. Magic - Athletic Supporter (from PHO)
60. 76ers - 57i66135

Trades
ORL gets: #1 overall
PHO gets: #6 overall, ORL 2019-1 (unprotected)

LAC gets: Kevin Love
CLE gets: DeAndre Jordan, #13 overall

DET gets: Dario Saric, Jerryd Bayless, #38
PHI gets: Andre Drummond (!)

DAL gets: Jaren Jackson Jr., Dennis Schroder, Miles Plumlee
ATL gets: #5 and #33 overall, Wesley Matthews

ORL gets: #31 and #59 overall, Brandon Knight, Tyson Chandler
PHO gets: #35 overall, Bismack Biyombo, Terrence Ross

PHO gets: #13 overall, JR Smith
CLE gets: Marquese Chriss, Terrence Ross
   793. Stevey Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:03 PM (#5691775)
Jordan is a more prolific roll man than anyone the Cavs had last year. Tristan Thompson and Larry Nance have no more range than Jordan and neither finishes as well as him, yet the Cavs maintained a good offense when those guys share the floor with Lebron. If the thing you are describing happens and Jordan's defender just cheats off of him to Lebron every time he tries to get to the rim, Jordan will have a huge increase in dunks because Lebron is phenomenal at maneuvering around defenders to make passes to open guys.

Is Jordan better than Love? Probably not, but it's also harder to attack him defensively. Getting a lotto pick that he flipped for an interesting prospect in Criss adds to the value in that trade. I think there are reasonable arguments on both sides, but I don't think it's so obviously bad.


I feel this misses the (big) second point of my argument - what Lebron will want. Could the Cavs offense be fine with Jordan instead of Love? Probably, Lebron is just that good. Will Lebron want to be on an offense that goes "hey, can you do even more work on this end?". That sales pitch to him will last about five seconds. Swapping Love for Jordan is unequivocally not the answer to how to take some of the burden off Lebron's shoulders. Yes, even with Jordan's defense being that good (against non-Warrior teams).
   794. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:08 PM (#5691776)
The Denver Nuggets select De'Anthony Melton, G, USC.

I was indeed deciding between Zhaire Smith and Melton--hoping to find a way to get both. With Smith off the board, the decision was made for me. I thought about trying to trade down but ultimately decided not to risk it.

It's only fitting that Melton ends up in Denver, as his upside is basically the second coming of Fat Lever. Combo guard with lightning quick hands, tenacious on-ball defense, good instincts as a help defender, vision, leaping ability, and the inclination to push the pace whenever possible.

Major questions are whether he can shoot (28.4% 3s, 70.6% FT at USC), whether he's big enough to be a truly difference-making defender at the next level (6'8.5" wingspan), and whether he has a point guard's handle. In Denver, the last question shouldn't be too important, as he can take on a secondary handler role much like any guard playing alongside Jokic.

Melton's also a great fit for Denver because he pairs really nicely with either Jamal Murray or Gary Harris--covering up their defensive shortcomings--and the Nuggets can play all 3 together as well. He adds some much-needed athleticism and defensive intensity to a roster skewed toward skilled, offense-first players. I think Melton can become a decent jump shooter (he flashed a smooth-looking turnaround jumper in the combine scrimmages), but even if that part of his game doesn't quite develop he's still useful. Most of all, Melton's fit with the current roster and his upside if he can become a 3-point threat made him the clear pick in my mind with Zhaire off the board.

On to Votto and the Wizards.

FIRST ROUND
1. Magic (from PHO) - Athletic Supporter - Luka Doncic, G, Real Madrid
2. Kings - smileyy - Deandre Ayton, F/C, Arizona
3. Hawks - Der-K - Jaren Jackson Jr., F/C, Michigan State (to DAL for #5)
4. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball - Michael Porter Jr., F, Missouri
5. Hawks - Der-K (from DAL) - Mohamed Bamba - C, Texas
6. Suns (from ORL) - Oriole Tragic - Wendell Carter Jr., C, Duke
7. Bulls - Moses - Marvin Bagley III, F/C, Duke
8. Cavs - stevegamer - Mikal Bridges, F/G, Villanova
9. Knicks - NJ/JC - Trae Young, G, Oklahoma
10. 76ers - 57i66135 - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, G, Kentucky
11. Hornets - Berg - Lonnie Walker, G/F, Miami
12. Clippers - Thok - Robert Williams, C/F, Texas A&M
13. Suns (from LAC via CLE) - Oriole Tragic - Zhaire Smith, F/G, Texas Tech
14. Nuggets - Dandy - De'Anthony Melton, G, USC
15. Wizards - Votto
16. Suns - Oriole Tragic
17. Bucks - Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw
18. Spurs - SouthSideRyan
19. Hawks - Der-K
20. Timberwolves - Mouse
21. Jazz - Booey/Cervo
22. Bulls - Moses
23. Pacers - Paste
24. Trailblazers
25. Lakers - Hombre/rr
26. 76ers - 57i66135
27. Celtics - MHS
28. Warriors - sardonic
29. Nets - JJ1986
30. Hawks - Der-K

SECOND ROUND
31. Magic - Athletic Supporter (from PHO)
32. Grizzlies – Willard Baseball
33. Hawks - Der-K (from DAL)
34. Hawks - Der-K
35. Suns - Oriole Tragic (from ORL)
36. Knicks - NJ/JC
37. Kings - smileyy
38. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless (from PHI)
39. 76ers - 57i66135
40. Nets - JJ1986
41. Magic - Athletic Supporter
42. Pistons - Crosseyed and Painless
43. Nuggets - Dandy
44. Wizards -Votto
45. Nets - JJ1986
46. Rockets
47. Lakers - Hombre/rr
48. Timberwolves - Mouse
49. Spurs - SouthSideRyan
50. Pacers - Paste
51. Pelicans
52. Jazz - Booey/Cervo
53. Thunder - Fridas Boss
54. Mavericks - tshipman
55. Hornets - Berg
56. 76ers - 57i66135
57. Thunder - Fridas Boss
58. Nuggets - Dandy
59. Magic - Athletic Supporter (from PHO)
60. 76ers - 57i66135

Trades
ORL gets: #1 overall
PHO gets: #6 overall, ORL 2019-1 (unprotected)

LAC gets: Kevin Love
CLE gets: DeAndre Jordan, #13 overall

DET gets: Dario Saric, Jerryd Bayless, #38
PHI gets: Andre Drummond (!)

DAL gets: Jaren Jackson Jr., Dennis Schroder, Miles Plumlee
ATL gets: #5 and #33 overall, Wesley Matthews

ORL gets: #31 and #59 overall, Brandon Knight, Tyson Chandler
PHO gets: #35 overall, Bismack Biyombo, Terrence Ross

PHO gets: #13 overall, JR Smith
CLE gets: Marquese Chriss, Terrence Ross
   795. Oriole Tragic: doomed to mysterious ignomy Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:15 PM (#5691778)
@Dandy I thought Gary Harris has a rep as a good defender? I guess being DEN's best defender can be different than being a good defender.
   796. JC in DC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:17 PM (#5691779)
Does anyone even know what Melton is at this point? That's an aggressive pick at 14. Ballsy.
   797. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:18 PM (#5691780)
Melton was on my shortlist for Indiana at 23, but I thought he would be viewed as a reach there! But in this draft I think if there's a guy anywhere on the board that you're high on and that you like the fit, you just go ahead and take him.
   798. tshipman Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:34 PM (#5691796)
Does anyone even know what Melton is at this point? That's an aggressive pick at 14. Ballsy.


On the "you are who you guard" theory, I guess he's a PG?

Hard to figure out what his role is right away. I think you just have to say, this guy is an athlete, and a hell of a disruptive defender, and we need to figure out what the hell we're going to do with him on offense.
   799. MHS Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:34 PM (#5691797)
I like Smith a lot. He is one of my favorite players in the draft and would almost certainly have taken him in the top 10 over serval guys who consensus has way ahead of him. He has star upside, and low bust probability. The upside is Is many of the top 10 picks are missing.

Melton was a guy I was certain id be able to take at 27 if their was no slippage. I guess the good news is it’s now more likely a guy I had ranked higher is available, the bad news is the median outcome is I get a guy I like worse. LOL.

Fun picks guys.
   800. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:35 PM (#5691799)
Melton was on my shortlist for Indiana at 23, but I thought he would be viewed as a reach there!
I thought he would be around for the Lakers at 25. Now if Melton works out in the NBA, Dandy can have ultimate bragging rights. On the other hand, if he doesn't work out, we know who to mock.
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