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Sunday, September 02, 2018

OT - 2018 NFL thread

Quarantine procedure in effect.

The Raiders and Bears have finalized a deal that will send pass-rusher Khalil Mack and a second-round pick to Chicago in exchange for four draft picks—including two first-rounders—a source told ESPN’s Adam Schefter on Saturday.

The Bears gave up first-round picks in 2019 and 2020, a third-round pick in 2020 and a sixth-round pick in 2019, the source said. In addition to Mack, Chicago also gets a second-round pick in 2020 and a conditional fifth-round pick in 2020.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: September 02, 2018 at 08:07 AM | 1319 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nfl, off-topic

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   1. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: September 02, 2018 at 09:26 AM (#5737598)
...By the time Nagy came to Philly, Reid had ceded a good portion of day-to-day offensive operations to entrenched coordinator Marty Mornhinweg. But when a young, relatively inexperienced staff (one that included Pederson as a first-year offensive coordinator and Nagy as the QBs coach) followed Reid to Kansas City in 2013, the veteran coach felt it was time to once again take control. Just before the start of that year’s OTAs, during one of the staff’s opening meetings of the season, Reid busted in the door with a new-look up-tempo approach ready to go out of the gate. “It was out of nowhere,” Nagy says. “And we ended up doing it. It ended up being successful. That just goes to show that his mind is always thinking one step ahead of everybody.”

For a young coach thirsting to innovate, getting to see Reid pilot the offense was a dream come true. “That was so awesome,” Nagy says. “For the first time, being a young guy coming up, I got to hear the installs, play-by-play, detail-by-detail, from coach Reid. For me to hear that, and to understand how he works and how he thinks, it allowed me as a quarterbacks coach to say, ‘Wow, he likes to be creative. I like to be creative. Let’s start throwing some ideas with each other—along with Doug and the rest of these guys.’”
reid should have been fired in 08 (specifically, at any point after week 11 (13-13 tie v. CIN) or week 12 (36-7 loss v. BAL; yes, kevin klob's first career start actually came against a defense with at least 2 future HOFers (and as many as 5)). he would never have caught this second wind if he had stayed in PHI, so he'd have been better off, and PHI was not getting reid's best efforts, so they'd have been better off, too.

   2. Howie Menckel Posted: September 02, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5737721)
Giants have an old QB in Eli Manning, and had the second pick in the draft in April.

they took RB Barkley of Penn State, so the Jets "settled" for USC QB Darnold - who apparently will be the youngest QB to start on Day 1 in a half-century.

the Giants just cut heir apparent Davis Webb, who had been a 3rd-round pick.

they took a 4th-round QB stab this year, some guy Lauletta. No. 2 for now is a 30-year-old who has played 1 game in the NFL.

the Giants and Jets play in the same stadium.

downside? I'm not following you. what could be the downside here?
   3. RMc accompanies the Griffmen to Augusta Posted: September 02, 2018 at 06:17 PM (#5737771)
Fun (football) fact: The Giants (3-13) and Jets (5-11) were a combined 8-24 in 2017, their worst combined record in 21 years (NYG 6-10, NYJ 1-15 in 1996). Their worst-ever season was 1976 (both 3-11, for a 6-22 mark).

And now, a kwik-kwiz: in 58 seasons of football (1960-2017), what was the ONLY time the Giants and Jets won playoff games in the same season...?
   4. Howie Menckel Posted: September 02, 2018 at 10:06 PM (#5737831)
that is a beauty!

without revealing it:

think of winning a playoff game but not reaching the Super Bowl as sort of hitting a double but not scoring a run.

the Jets have done that just 7 times in the last 35 years (and never reached the Super Bowl)

the Giants have only done it 4 times in their entire history - and only once in more than three decades (and that was 25 years ago. but 5 Super Bowl appearances in that span)

#feastorfamine
   5. zenbitz Posted: September 03, 2018 at 03:47 AM (#5737858)
I uh cant remember the last time the Jets won a playoff game. Mid 90s?
   6. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: September 03, 2018 at 04:01 AM (#5737860)
I uh cant remember the last time the Jets won a playoff game. Mid 90s?
how could you possibly forget about the sanchize?
   7. JJ1986 Posted: September 03, 2018 at 08:31 AM (#5737876)
My first date with my wife, we watched the Jets win a playoff game against the Patriots. That would have been mid-January 2011.
   8. JJ1986 Posted: September 03, 2018 at 08:32 AM (#5737877)
The Buffalo Bills, who made the playoffs last year, have named Nathan Peterman their starting QB.
   9. Greg K Posted: September 03, 2018 at 08:42 AM (#5737880)
The Buffalo Bills, who made the playoffs last year, have named Nathan Peterman their starting QB.

Ugh. So much for watching football this year!
   10. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: September 03, 2018 at 09:32 AM (#5737886)
how could you possibly forget about the sanchize?


Everyone is aware by now of the fact that... how many exactly is it now... 14 of the last 15 AFC Championships have been won by Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Ben Roethlisberger.

That one magical January of 2011, Mark Sanchez--Mark Sanchez!!--very nearly took down all three of them back-to-back-to-back. The Steelers managed to survive Sanchezmania after he popped off Manning and Brady in the first two rounds.
   11. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 03, 2018 at 10:07 AM (#5737891)
That one magical January of 2011, Mark Sanchez--Mark Sanchez!!--very nearly took down all three of them back-to-back-to-back

ummmmm----no--it was the defense and the running game that did that. The QB was irrelevant. This recent* use of "playoff wins" as a QB stat is absurd

*I'm so old that anything in the last 25 years is recent to me
   12. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 03, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5737900)
And now, a kwik-kwiz: in 58 seasons of football (1960-2017), what was the ONLY time the Giants and Jets won playoff games in the same season...?

Was it the year the Giants won their first Super Bowl?
   13. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 03, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5737901)
Was it the year the Giants won their first Super Bowl?

Bingo
   14. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 03, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5737903)
think of winning a playoff game but not reaching the Super Bowl as sort of hitting a double but not scoring a run.

the Jets have done that just 7 times in the last 35 years (and never reached the Super Bowl)

the Giants have only done it 4 times in their entire history - and only once in more than three decades (and that was 25 years ago. but 5 Super Bowl appearances in that span)

#feastorfamine


For the Giants, feast or famine entered a new phase once the Super Bowl was established.

Giants' record in pre-Super Bowl NFL postseason games: 3-13

Giants' Super Bowl record: 4-1

That 3-13 pre-SB record included 2 particularly galling losses in conference playoffs. In 1943, the Giants were 2 games behind the Redskins with 2 games to play against them to wind up the season. They won both of those games to force a playoff for the Eastern title. But after beating the Skins in Washington by 28 to 0 in the season ender, the very next week they lost the playoff game at home by 31 to 7, a 52 point turnaround. It wasn't their finest hour.

And in 1950, they shut out the Browns in their first meeting, giving Cleveland its first whitewashing in its 5 year history. But after then beating them again in their second matchup later that year, they lost to them in a special conference playoff.
   15. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 03, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5737905)
Giants' record in pre-Super Bowl NFL postseason games: 3-13

people talk a lot about the Bills 0-4 SB run but the Giants were in 5 NFL championship games in 6 years between 1958-63 and lost all 5
   16. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 03, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5737906)
And for Giants fans, here's another nice little bit of trivia. Not only are they the only team ever to lose the NFL Championship game in 3 consecutive years (1961-62-63), their baseball counterparts were one of only two teams ever to lose 3 straight World Series,** when they lost to the A's in 1911, the Red Sox in 1912, and the A's again in 1913.

** The 1907-08-09 Tigers were the other.
   17. zenbitz Posted: September 03, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5737925)
Everyone loves to mock the hapless Jets, but one of the greatest games I ever saw in person was the Monday Night Miracle.

3 quarters of merciless new york home team mocking followed by the Vinny Testaverde show.
   18. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 03, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5737927)
Everyone loves to mock the hapless Jets, but one of the greatest games I ever saw in person was the Monday Night Miracle.

3 quarters of merciless new york home team mocking followed by the Vinny Testaverde show.

Golden Primey award for whoever can name the head coach of the Jets that year
   19. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: September 03, 2018 at 01:34 PM (#5737930)

Golden Primey award for whoever can name the head coach of the Jets that year


Well, for one day it was Bill Belichick.
   20. stevegamer Posted: September 04, 2018 at 03:52 AM (#5738112)
Golden Primey award for whoever can name the head coach of the Jets that year


Wasn't it some guy they bumped up into the role. For some reason, Al Groh is rattling around in my head.
   21. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:59 AM (#5738114)
Wasn't it some guy they bumped up into the role. For some reason, Al Groh is rattling around in my head.

Bingo--was linebackers coach until Belichick "resigned as HC of NYJ". He lasted one year then went back to his alma mater, Virginia
   22. JJ1986 Posted: September 09, 2018 at 02:35 PM (#5741254)
The Giants just wasted a timeout to avoid a delay of game on the first play of the second half. Just take the damn 5 yards.
   23. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 09, 2018 at 02:37 PM (#5741255)
How about just be ready to run a freaking play? I mean in that situation, it is just inexcusable.
   24. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 09, 2018 at 02:43 PM (#5741259)
By the way, there was a thread that discussed the worst rules in sports a week or two ago. Forget which one.

But one that went unmentioned is the intentional grounding rule. I hate that one so much. A quarterback in the middle of being tackled should not be able to get out of it, by tossing the ball 3 feet forward onto the ground, at the feet of some TE or back, who isn't even looking at the play.

He isn't trying to make a play, he is not trying to get it to another player. He is trying to get it on the ground. Intentionally. How is that not intentional grounding?
   25. Thok Posted: September 09, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5741261)
The Buffalo Bills, who made the playoffs last year, have named Nathan Peterman their starting QB.


After one half of football, the Bills are on pace for 0 first downs this season.
   26. JJ1986 Posted: September 09, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5741302)
Come on, Browns
   27. zenbitz Posted: September 09, 2018 at 04:22 PM (#5741304)
Well, I guess I am glad the 49ers were in that one... but it's frustrating; it was probably a winnable game - against Minnesota on the road.
   28. Howie Menckel Posted: September 09, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5741315)
Giants trail, 13-9, to start the second half.
1st and 10 on their own 25.
Eli Manning can't hear the play in his helmet, starts gesturing frantically.
Announcer Kenny Albert says Giants are "forced" to call a timeout.

why would a football team ever be forced to call a timeout? can't they just take a 5-yard penalty?
which is what they should have done, because I'd love the a WPA chart that shows that moving the ball back from your 25 to your 20 is more damaging than USING A TIMEOUT.

inevitably, the Giants are only down 5 points while the Jaguars kill some clock in their own field with under 2 minutes left. Giants make a 3rd-down stop with 1:30 or so left and call.... oh, I'm sorry, they are out of timeouts. there's under a minute left as they punt toward the Giants 20, meaning Eli loses one-third of the time he could use because they were FORCED TO CALL A TIMEOUT earlier, Albert says in back-to-back sentences.


now, the Giants rookie muffs the punt, so game over anyway, but still.
   29. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: September 09, 2018 at 04:53 PM (#5741321)
Pete Carroll couldn't get his challenge flag out in time, so Denver got away with a fumble.

Earlier, Shaquem Griffin got his first pass defense of the regular season. He successfully defended it, and the color commentator (edit: Mark Schlereth) twice said he did a good job "getting his hands" on the receiver within the 5-yard zone to throw him off. Unfortunately, Shaquem only has one hand.
   30. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: September 09, 2018 at 05:01 PM (#5741325)
Howie and JJ1986, I agree, I've long felt that taking the penalty is sometimes better than burning a TO. I'll bet teams start realizing that eventually. Wonder if there's been a statistical study of it?

But "forced" really means "forced to take a timeout in order to avoid a penalty".
   31. Jay Z Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5741552)
people talk a lot about the Bills 0-4 SB run but the Giants were in 5 NFL championship games in 6 years between 1958-63 and lost all 5


They won in 1956 with basically the same team.
   32. SoSH U at work Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5741554)
I thought it was ridiculous for the Bears to pass on third down, rather than try to run with Trubisky or Cohen, though it validated Green Bay's questionable third timeout call. Obviously, if things played out the same way post kickoff, it wouldn't have mattered, but there's no way of knowing that.

   33. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:44 AM (#5741565)
people talk a lot about the Bills 0-4 SB run but the Giants were in 5 NFL championship games in 6 years between 1958-63 and lost all 5


They won in 1956 with basically the same team.

that's why they're not considered losers, like the Bills are
   34. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 10, 2018 at 06:35 PM (#5741851)
As bad as the Bills are, I saw a stat today that the Browns at 0-0-1 are off to their best start since 2004.

That absolutely broke me for several minutes.
   35. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: September 10, 2018 at 09:14 PM (#5741933)
Lions are moving from mediocre to bad. This is after their GM's (Quinn, from New England) third offseason. Just hiring random dudes from New England has worked for which franchise so far? Any?
   36. McCoy Posted: September 10, 2018 at 09:20 PM (#5741935)
The bears since at least the Smith era have been absolutely atrocious at clock management and yesterday just shows that they still haven't fixed it.

New coaching staff and all but they used up two timeouts before even getting out of the first quarter. At that point I figured it would be safe old Bears in that regard.

In the second half as soon as I saw the Packers were going for the quick passes I turned the game off and went to bed. I just knew the Bears were going to blow it.
   37. Howie Menckel Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:27 PM (#5742014)
"Cleveland Browns defensive end Myles Garrett shouldn't have been called for roughing the passer in the second quarter of the Browns' 21-21 tie Sunday with the Pittsburgh Steelers, the NFL's senior vice president for officiating said Monday.

Garrett wrapped up Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger for a third-down incompletion and was called for a personal foul. On the next play, Steelers running back James Conner ran in for a touchdown and a 6-0 Steelers lead."

..........

(note the third-down incompletion, the call, and the result. ouch)
   38. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: September 30, 2018 at 07:04 PM (#5755881)
It seems like every week more passing/receiving records are broken, often by journeymen. I's fun when records are broken, but it's less meaningful when it's a result of the game itself changing.
   39. McCoy Posted: September 30, 2018 at 09:18 PM (#5755979)
It would have been nice if the Bears had decided to try for the record instead of pulling a don Baylor and not show up the Bucs.
   40. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: September 30, 2018 at 09:30 PM (#5755983)
Eagles rookie watch:

Dallas Goedert was not targeted much after last week's big performance, because Alshon Jeffery is back. Goedert also didn't drop 4 passes like Nelson Agholor did, so it's a net win.

Avonte Maddox got a first-half interception! Which led to a field goal!

Jordan Mailata has still not played a game of American football. (outside the preseason)

Josh Sweat and Matt Pryor: Did they play?

Eagles in general: Um... inconsistent
   41. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 30, 2018 at 10:23 PM (#5756003)
It would have been nice if the Bears had decided to try for the record instead of pulling a don Baylor and not show up the Bucs.

Yeah, but you've gotta admit that the Bears are probably the most impressively surprising team so far in the entire NFL. They just utterly annihilated the team that beat the Saints and the Eagles, and right now they're probably the best team in their division. Would you have predicted that before the start of the season?
   42. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: October 14, 2018 at 11:19 PM (#5766541)
It's currently 40-40 in the NE/KC barn burner. Scorigami alert!

edit: 43-40. Scorigami!
   43. SteveF Posted: October 14, 2018 at 11:54 PM (#5766546)
Both teams were exposed a bit, I think. KC has a problem against the run. New England is having some communication issues in the secondary. McCourty (safety version) had a pretty forgettable game, but he seemed to be trying to cover up for linebackers that have no chance in pass coverage. Neither team gets enough pressure.

That might just be where we are these days. Maybe the Rams are the best all-around team thus far? Talent is pretty well spread out these days. Making it so much easier to play quarterback is likely going to lead to more parity than the salary cap ever could.
   44. McCoy Posted: October 15, 2018 at 07:43 AM (#5766556)
Ugh, bears
   45. Howie Menckel Posted: October 15, 2018 at 09:57 AM (#5766620)
the Bears are so good that they are 3-2 even without having a head coach (well, if they are paying one, they aren't getting their money's worth).

fun play in the Broncos game. Sanders scores a TD, then blatantly taunts the beaten defender to draw a penalty. who cares - he got his!

wait, review shows he was down at the 1-yard line. so let's march back 15 yards to the 16, and watch the Broncos settle for a field goal thanks to the antics. #getoffmylawn
   46. puck Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:25 AM (#5766654)
That's big news around here, given that they lost by 3.

Also big news, supposedly the Broncos are the first team to give up 200+ yards rushing in back to back games. Should be emphasis on the "plus," they gave up 323 to the Jets and 270 to the Rams.
   47. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5766679)
Man is the AFC a dumpster fire. Just eyeballing the scene, it looks a lot like either Tom Brady will still be healthy in January and New England will win the AFC even with no defense at all, or he won't and Kansas City will be unable to help winning it even despite Andy Reid's best efforts.

Maybe Baltimore, which actually has a defense, can step up in January. But the conference is pretty dire.
   48. #6bid turns frustration into motivation and muscle Posted: October 15, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5766806)
43-40. Scorigami!


My brother-in-law created https://twitter.com/nfl_scorigami. :)
   49. SoSH U at work Posted: October 15, 2018 at 12:51 PM (#5766824)
the Bears are so good that they are 3-2 even without having a head coach (well, if they are paying one, they aren't getting their money's worth).


Wow, that's about 180 degrees from my take. Nagy screwed up in OT by getting uncharacteristically conservative on the last drive before the kick, but otherwise he's impressed the hell out of me, a non-Bears fan in Bears land.

   50. Howie Menckel Posted: October 15, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5766835)
well, what did you think of Nagy's second-half playcalling/turtling against the Packers?
they have a lot of talent (especially on defense) and are 3-2, so what is impressive? sounds like you see more of them than I do.
   51. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: October 15, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5766893)
My brother-in-law created https://twitter.com/nfl_scorigami. :)

That's a nice twitter site, presumably all automatic linked to the scorigami website? Very fun.

The only problem is the percentages on the actual website are wack--they are way too high on scorigami early in games (on the very brief survey I did), and certainly WAY too low late in a 40-40 tie. They don't seem to have any idea how points are actually scored in football, let alone taking into account things like field position very late in a game.

Last night, the supposed odds of Scorigami at 40-40 were about 30% with 3 minutes left. Bear in mind 43-40 and 47-40 would both have been scorigami, and even 40-40 would have been scorigami. In fact, at 40-40 it would have been difficult not to end up as scorigami, based on the number of games that have finished with the losing team scoring at least 40 points. That 30% odds fell to under 1% with NE in FG range and 3 seconds left, which is totally inexplicable. Should have been 99% at that point.

   52. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: October 15, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5766903)
According to the twitter site it was the 4th scorigami this year. The others:

48-40 TB over NO Sept 9
29-29 Min / GB Sept 16 (that this was scorigami is, shall we say, not a surprise)
43-19 NO over Wash Oct 8

The 43-40 score is the most surprising scorigami of the bunch, maybe (I guess 43-19 has an argument). At 40-40 when I looked it up I was expecting to see that 43-40 had been done before.



   53. SoSH U at work Posted: October 15, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5766912)
well, what did you think of Nagy's second-half playcalling/turtling against the Packers?


I don't agree with the premise. I didn't like the final set of downs yesterday, but otherwise I think he's been extremely creative in getting the ball from his young QB (a guy who isn't going to be confused with Goff or Mahomes) to guys who can do something with it.

They're a dropped interception (and not one of those "almost intercepted" calls by Jim Nantz any time a defender gets a fingertip on a ball. A legitimate should have had it) and a missed field goal from 5-0. They were a well-earned 5-11 last year.
   54. Ithaca2323 Posted: October 15, 2018 at 01:52 PM (#5766916)
Julio Jones now has 44 receptions, 707 yards and 0 TDs.

His last 10 games: 66 receptions, 1,112 yards, and 0 TDs
   55. McCoy Posted: October 15, 2018 at 03:03 PM (#5766985)
They're a dropped interception (and not one of those "almost intercepted" calls by Jim Nantz any time a defender gets a fingertip on a ball. A legitimate should have had it) and a missed field goal from 5-0. They were a well-earned 5-11 last year.

Well, if we go by that Mitch has thrown up some stinkers that fortunately didn't get picked off.

In terms of yesterday's missed field goal that is really on the coach and his ultra conservative last three play calls leading up to the FG. I figured the Bears would run twice in those three downs and pass at least once. I also figured that they would be more creative than call for an inside run I think 5 times in a row or something like that and definitely the last three plays were conservative run it up the middle play calls. Nagy also had some questionable time management issues to end the 4th which put the Bears in a position to lose in OT.

At the end of the day the good thing is as the possible 5-0 start possibility shows is that the Bears have been in it so far in every single game. They haven't played like they should be 5-0 but they definitely haven't played like a 3-2 start with a promising rest of the season is a fluke.
   56. #6bid turns frustration into motivation and muscle Posted: October 16, 2018 at 04:48 PM (#5767952)
The only problem is the percentages on the actual website are wack...


Hey AuntBea -- I brought this to my brother-in-law's attention and he'll take a look at it. He thinks it might have to do with the bot's handling of overtime.
   57. SoSH U at work Posted: October 16, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5768025)
Well, if we go by that Mitch has thrown up some stinkers that fortunately didn't get picked off.


No question about that.
   58. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: October 16, 2018 at 07:17 PM (#5768130)

Hey AuntBea -- I brought this to my brother-in-law's attention and he'll take a look at it. He thinks it might have to do with the bot's handling of overtime.
Yes I guess it could be mostly that. I'm guessing it has a few shortcomings (OT maybe just one of them), but I certainly haven't looked at it carefully. Anyway, nice that someone cares enough to try to make it more realistic!
   59. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: October 18, 2018 at 05:14 PM (#5770553)
Is it just me, or does the NFL seem to cluster the primetime appearances of teams?

The Bears were on the first Sunday night, then the next Monday night. The Steelers did a Monday-then-Sunday combo earlier this year. It seems like the Chiefs have a night game *every* week. The Seahawks have a Sunday night Dec 2 followed by a Monday night Dec 10. The Jets were on a Monday, then the following Thursday.

Seems like there's always a few of these every year. I get it for the popular teams, but the Jets?
   60. KronicFatigue Posted: October 28, 2018 at 02:32 PM (#5778142)
I sporadically hate-watch the NFL because I'm in a survivor pool. The thing that always catches my eye is how commonplace it is for a player to do something royally stupid that costs his team. Last week, a WR taunted a DB after scoring a TD in a game. However, reviews showed that he was down at the 1, so the personal foul put them at the 16. They wound up having to kick a FG. Probably cost his team 4 points.

Just now, Chicago was driving at the end of the half. On 3rd and long they complete a first down that puts them in FG range. In addition, the Jets committed a personal foul on the QB. I presume that 15 yards gets tacked on after the play, but the lineman took offense and loomed over the defensive player, creating an offsetting unsportsmanlike penalty. Chicago fails to complete the 3rd down this time, and have to punt it away. Great chance at 3 points lost, decent chance at 7 points lost.

As icing, the Jets stupidly try to pass the ball from the 20, and their failure to run out the clock leads to a punt. The announcer (Nance?) suggests Chicago has the ability to try a "free kick" by fair catching the ball. Even if time runs out, after a fair catch, Chicago can attempt a kick off a tee. Of course, the punt returner doesn't fair catch it and instead runs fruitlessly for 5 yards before jogging out of bounds.

I would have a heart attack if I actually cared about a team and saw their players hurt their chances by being so stupid so often.
   61. SoSH U at work Posted: October 28, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5778149)
Of course, the punt returner doesn't fair catch it and instead runs fruitlessly for 5 yards before jogging out of bounds.


And the Jets defender dove at him just as he was going OB, risking at personal foul that would have given the Bears a shot at an untimed field goal attempt.
   62. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: October 30, 2018 at 05:03 PM (#5779796)
This trade seems like Roseman’s best move yet. A week after the Cowboys paid a first-rounder for one of the most erratic receivers in the league, the Eagles are reportedly flipping a third-rounder for one of the most underrated receivers in the league. The Eagles are on bye this week, and their next game is against the Cowboys in Dallas. If Tate outplays Cooper in an Eagles win, it might be a perfect microcosm of how a savvy Eagles front office has built a superior football team in Philadelphia.

   63. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: October 30, 2018 at 05:18 PM (#5779808)
Tate's not that great. DVOA of -17.7% for the season (55th in the league). 57th in DYAR with -28.
   64. McCoy Posted: November 19, 2018 at 03:34 PM (#5789281)
Go Bears!
   65. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: November 19, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5789291)
Best two teams in the league are playing tonight. I might actually watch a bit of it for a change.
   66. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 19, 2018 at 06:47 PM (#5789364)
Larry Fitzgerald is now 2nd all-time in receiving yards.

His total is closer to that of #60 on the list than it is to #1.
   67. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: November 19, 2018 at 07:22 PM (#5789374)
I grew up in SF during the Rice era, and he was great of course. When Moss came along his star burned just as bright, and perhaps slightly brighter than Rice's did, at the peak of their careers. My friend back then was always a contrarian, disliked the Niners, and liked the misunderstood types, so was trying to tell me in the early 2000s that Moss was the greater player.

I just said let's wait and see if Moss is still putting up 1000 yard seasons at age 40.

Of course, that was always unlikely for any receiver, but especially for one with Moss's temperament. To his credit, Moss stuck around as a very good player for a decent amount of time, though his last good year was age 32.
   68. McCoy Posted: November 19, 2018 at 07:42 PM (#5789380)
Calvin Johnson was the bigger shocker for me. He was the man for three years and then up and retires at 30 two years later.
   69. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:18 PM (#5789394)
I grew up in SF during the Rice era, and he was great of course. When Moss came along his star burned just as bright, and perhaps slightly brighter than Rice's did, at the peak of their careers. My friend back then was always a contrarian, disliked the Niners, and liked the misunderstood types, so was trying to tell me in the early 2000s that Moss was the greater player.
moss was significantly better than rice. both of them were great, but one of them had certain advantages over the other.

randy moss was coached by mike tice and art shell; jerry rice was coached by bill walsh.
moss played 2 years with tom brady and parts of 5 seasons with daunte culpepper; rice played 6 years with joe montana, 6 with steve young and 2 each with jeff garcia and rich gannon.
literally every QB moss played with had their best season with him. he turned randall cunningham into a first-team all-pro at 35 years old; tom brady went 69%/4800/50 his first year with moss, rewriting the NLF record book; matt cassell hadn't played in a meaningful game since high school, but playing with moss convinced KC to trade the 34th pick for him that next offseason; kerry collins rode 1 year with moss into another decade of employment; he made culpepper look so good that MIA chose to sign culpepper instead of drew f'n brees.
rice...SF went 15-1 the year before they drafted him; the one year where he missed 14 games (1997), SF went 13-3. young, montana, garcia and gannon all had great years with him, but also great years without him.
MIN was 9-7 in 1997; when they drafted moss they immediately went 15-1 in 1998. NWE got moss in 2007 and immediately went 16-0.


rice was consistently excellent within favorable circumstances.
moss was a damn force of nature.
   70. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:19 PM (#5789395)
Calvin Johnson was the bigger shocker for me. He was the man for three years and then up and retires at 30 two years later.
detroit has that effect on people. hell, would you want to live there?
   71. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:31 PM (#5789399)
moss was significantly better than rice. both of them were great, but one of them had certain advantages over the other.
Not going to argue this point, though it's not always convincing to rely on counterfactuals (in this case, as in what would Rice have done with worse QBs, or Moss with better ones).

The main point is if Moss had put up career numbers within shouting distance of Rice, you could actually have an argument about which player had the greater career.
   72. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 08:38 PM (#5789400)
Not going to argue this point, though it's not always convincing to rely on counterfactuals (in this case, as in what would Rice have done with worse QBs, or Moss with better ones).

The main point is if Moss had put up career numbers within shouting distance of Rice, you could actually have an argument about which player had the greater career.
it's not a counterfactual; it's context.
playing with rice did not meaningfully improve the performance of any QB; playing with moss turned burnt toast into sfogliatella, nearly every time.


the literal second that moss got to two different teams, those teams took off like rockets into the stratosphere.
MIN went from 9-7 to 15-1 (with a 35 year old backup QB); NWE went from 12-4 to 16-0.
MIN: 22 PPG to 35 PPG.
NWE: 24 PPG to 37 PPG.


i agree that moss's numbers don't come close to rice's, but that's a different conversation.

   73. McCoy Posted: November 19, 2018 at 09:28 PM (#5789426)
But that is just a single season each time. The Vikings went 28-36 from 2001 to 2004. They trade Moss and go 9-7 in 2005. They went 8-8 in 2004. So by your evidence he had little to no effect on the Vikings in 2004 and they actually improved the next year without him. Oakland with Moss went from 5-11 without him to 4-12 and then 2-14 with him.

Sure the Patriots went 16-0 with him the first year but they then went 11-5 and then 10-6 his next two seasons. They miss the playoffs and lose in the WC round with him. They jettison Moss in 2010 and they go 14-2.
   74. . . . . . . Posted: November 19, 2018 at 10:11 PM (#5789433)
Rice clearly is the best career of any WR but what about peak value? I'd take Moss for sure.
   75. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: November 19, 2018 at 10:43 PM (#5789441)
Sure the Patriots went 16-0 with him the first year but they then went 11-5 and then 10-6 his next two seasons. They miss the playoffs and lose in the WC round with him. They jettison Moss in 2010 and they go 14-2.
2010 also happened to be the year the patriots drafted rob gronkowski and aaron hernandez.
Oakland with Moss went from 5-11 without him to 4-12 and then 2-14 with him.
oakland was /is/ a tire fire.
The Vikings went 28-36 from 2001 to 2004. They trade Moss and go 9-7 in 2005. They went 8-8 in 2004.
mike. tice.
So by your evidence he had little to no effect on the Vikings in 2004 and they actually improved the next year without him.
yes, there is evidence that goes both ways. if evidence was definitive, it would just be proof.

   76. McCoy Posted: November 19, 2018 at 11:17 PM (#5789448)
What's the highest scoring game decided by one point?
   77. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: November 19, 2018 at 11:23 PM (#5789450)
This is a very good game. KC shot themselves in the foot a few more times with turnovers and penalties, and otherwise probably would be winning right now.

Speaking of 2-point conversions, KC had 4th and goal from the 3 in the first half, down 10 or so in a game in which they came in as the underdog, and didn't go for it. Going for the TD there seems like an even clearer decision than going for 2. Both teams are excellent on offense, it's 7 v 3 (rather than 2 v 1), KC was already behind, and of course field position if they didn't get it for LA would have been very poor.

But KC would never end up needing those 4 points...
   78. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: November 19, 2018 at 11:27 PM (#5789453)
Socrigami alert! Only 11 times in NFL history has a team scored at least 44 and lost.
   79. McCoy Posted: November 19, 2018 at 11:29 PM (#5789455)
Mcveigh has also done some stupidly conservative plays that has kept this game close.
   80. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: November 19, 2018 at 11:31 PM (#5789456)
Scorigami spoiler... there's really only 1 likely way for this game not to end up scorigami. 54-44
   81. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: November 19, 2018 at 11:41 PM (#5789457)
Only 6 times in NFL history has a team scored at least 47 and lost.

Also, guaranteed scorigami now.
   82. McCoy Posted: November 19, 2018 at 11:43 PM (#5789458)
How about 51 points and lost?
   83. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: November 19, 2018 at 11:45 PM (#5789459)
heh. most points in a loss was 49, done twice. Saints over Giants 52-49 in 2015, and Raiders over Oilers same score in 1963.
   84. McCoy Posted: November 19, 2018 at 11:46 PM (#5789460)
Wow
   85. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: November 19, 2018 at 11:48 PM (#5789461)
ok so now we got that one. Next up is most combined points in a game. We are now at 3rd most. 58-48 Bengals over Browns in 2004, and 72-41 Redskins over Giants in 1966. We're gonna need OT to beat that one.
   86. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: November 20, 2018 at 01:01 AM (#5789475)
I'm guessing the old MNF record was that GB/Wash 48-46 game or whatever. Our sitter let us stay up late to watch that one.
   87. Howie Menckel Posted: November 20, 2018 at 01:46 AM (#5789477)
48-47 Packers final.

a rookie MNF announcer joked mid-game that "first team to 50 points wins."

then legendary Wash kicker Moseley missed a 39-yard FG with 3 seconds left.

WASH was so devastated that they won their last 7 games to finish 13-2 in a strike year, then crushed the Lions and beating the legendary 49ers before failing to repeat as SB champs in a lopsided loss to the Raiders.

p.s. the announcer was O.J. Simpson
   88. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: November 20, 2018 at 01:30 PM (#5789708)
I just read that the game last night had the highest (pregame) O/U of any game in NFL history, at 63.5

Wasn't quite high enough...
   89. Nasty Nate Posted: November 20, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5789713)
I just read that the game last night had the highest (pregame) O/U of any game in NFL history, at 63.5

Wasn't quite high enough...
I think in some places it was even 64 or higher.

Of course the spread was exactly the final difference (Rams -3).
   90. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: November 20, 2018 at 01:58 PM (#5789724)
Seattle won 51-48 over the Chiefs in 1983, which was one of only two games I'm aware of in which both teams beat the Over on their own (the other being the 58-48 game above).

Seems like several scorigamis this year - off the top of my head, 43-40, 29-29, and 43-19. I don't see a way to filter by a specific year, and I don't care enough to stare at the tiny numbers... is that info out here somewhere?
   91. McCoy Posted: November 20, 2018 at 02:06 PM (#5789730)
There has only been two times in my life when I was sure of something in the NFL. One was betting the over on last night's game and the other was betting the over on Super Bowl XL and that is why I don't bet on NFL games.

For Super Bowl XL I mistakenly thought that because both teams had lit up pretty good defenses in their respective conference championships and because Seattle had the highest scoring offense in the league that it would be a high scoring game. Apparently the oddsmakers felt a lot of people would see it that way and set the line accordingly. We were wrong.
   92. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 20, 2018 at 02:13 PM (#5789737)
48-47 Packers final.

a rookie MNF announcer joked mid-game that "first team to 50 points wins."

then legendary Wash kicker Moseley missed a 39-yard FG with 3 seconds left.


So far, so good.

WASH was so devastated that they won their last 7 games to finish 13-2 in a strike year,

Wrong year. The strike was the year before that, in 1982, when the Redskins went 8-1 and beat the Dolphins in the Super Bowl.

then crushed the Lions and beating the legendary 49ers before failing to repeat as SB champs in a lopsided loss to the Raiders.

Wrong again. They crushed the Rams in the first round, before being gifted a 24-21 win over the 49ers and then getting murdered by the Raiders. They'd led the Niners by 21-0 entering the 4th quarter, and at that point were being called one of the greatest teams in NFL history. They then gave up 3 TD's and were saved by a bad referee's call from blowing the game completely. Mark Moseley finally won it with a field goal after missing his first 4 attempts.

Up through the end of the 3rd quarter of the 49ers game, the Skins had outscored their opponents that year by 613 to 339. After that point, their opponents outscored them by 59 to 12.
   93. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: November 20, 2018 at 02:56 PM (#5789772)
Not sure about this year's scorigami. You can search the twitter feed maybe though.
   94. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: November 20, 2018 at 08:07 PM (#5789874)
From the twitter feed:

11/19 - LAR 54 - 51 KC - 1045th
10/21 - IND 37 - 5 BUF - 1044th
10/14 - NE 43 - 40 KC - 1043rd
10/8 - NO 43 - 19 WAS - 1042nd
9/16 - GB 29 - 29 MIN - 1041st
9/9 - TB 48 - 40 NO - 1040th

   95. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 30, 2018 at 10:27 PM (#5792732)
I don't know my NFL history nearly as well as my baseball history. But I'm pretty sure a first place team abruptly releasing their young star running back three-fourths of the way through the season is unprecedented.
   96. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 01, 2018 at 09:21 AM (#5792766)
Meanwhile the Redskins maintained their stellar rep by signing Reuben Foster.
   97. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 01, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5792776)
My NFL fandom is such that I don't really have a favorite team, but simply gravitate to whoever is the most fun to watch. That means that for this season, the Chiefs have been my favorite team - that offense is just glorious.

So the release of Kareem Hunt makes me sad, in that I won't get to see that offense with all those weapons operating at full tilt anymore. It doesn't make me sad in the sense of "Gee, do they really have to release him?" because obviously, it's the morally right thing to do. It makes me sad in the sense of "Why did you have to turn out to be a horrible person, Kareem?"
   98. McCoy Posted: December 01, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5792777)
I don't know if it is morally right to release someone who got into a fight. This wasn't spousal abuse. This was two people who got into a fight.

Would he have gotten released if some dude caame up to him and punched him in the face and he responded?
   99. DCA Posted: December 01, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5792780)
Apparently the video contradicted his version of events that he told the team earlier in the year. He's not being cut for getting into a fight. He's getting cut for lying about what happened.
   100. McCoy Posted: December 01, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5792786)
I know the NFL is saying they tried to obtain the footage earlier this year and they couldn't talk to the "victim" or their witnesses because they didn't respond. But it would be really interesting to know what the NFL thought happened before this video released? I do see in old reports that Hunt claimed he went to bed after they were kicked out of his unit and that he told someone to call security on them. If that was the story he told the NFL that appears to be the lie. But again if he had gotten into a fight with a dude at 4am would this even be an issue?
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