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Saturday, April 21, 2018

OT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (April - June 2018)

The following is previously unseen rehearsal footage of Prince & The Revolution from the summer of 1984.

It was in this very room at Flying Cloud Drive Warehouse in Eden Prairie, Minnesota that Prince created and committed to tape one of his most beloved and iconic compositions, which six years later would become a worldwide hit for Sinead O’Connor.

Prince’s original studio version of ‘Nothing Compares 2 U’ is presented here for the first time.

Trial to see if there’s sufficient support to make this a thing.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: April 21, 2018 at 02:32 PM | 2029 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movies, music, off-topic, television, whatever else belongs under the rubric of 'popular culture'

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   1701. Howie Menckel Posted: May 16, 2018 at 09:58 PM (#5673909)
--social media profiles: have never been on Facebook, but have 4,700 Twitter followers and follow fewer than 200. no other social
--Haven't played video games since.... probably since Galaga was Galaxian, or is it vice versa. I am great at that game, though. took 20 years off, and earned 15 minutes of play on one quarter.
--Can't stand club music, dance pop, EDM - can confirm.
--Don't see the point of superhero/comic book movies at all and haven't seen one since, I think, the... Guardians of the Galaxy is the only one I have ever seen; my nephew wanted to see it.
--Also don't get into long-form episodic dramas on TV, so haven't seen a minute of any of them (Sopranos, Lost, 24, Breaking Bad, the Wire, GoT, House of Cards, literally any of them). can confirm.
--Don't like football at all. have attended 3 Super Bowls and follow the game fairly closely, mainly NFL Red Zone, though. have never paid for an NFL or NCAA FB ticket and have only attended one NCAA game.

might be an odd score
   1702. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 16, 2018 at 09:59 PM (#5673910)
Good art can be intentionally shallow, even gleefully so.
You must be a Tarantino fan.
   1703. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 16, 2018 at 10:03 PM (#5673914)
My wife is an anesthesiologist and consumes nothing but utter garbage, imo, on TV. Real house wives, sister wives, 600lbs. and...whatever it's called. Sap lifetime movies, etc. It's catnip. She hits a wall in the evening, doesn't want to talk household business and just wants the couch and her other world.
What I don't for the life of me get is, how is that particular "other world" at all appealing for people who are otherwise very intelligent? I get not wanting to challenge your brain 24/7, but what's the attraction of going all the way to the other pole and feeding yourself idiocy? Not that I absolutely never do it, but on a regular basis? No way.
   1704. PreservedFish Posted: May 16, 2018 at 10:17 PM (#5673925)
You must be a Tarantino fan.

I am.
   1705. Baldrick Posted: May 16, 2018 at 10:41 PM (#5673934)
What I don't for the life of me get is, how is that particular "other world" at all appealing for people who are otherwise very intelligent? I get not wanting to challenge your brain 24/7, but what's the attraction of going all the way to the other pole and feeding yourself idiocy? Not that I absolutely never do it, but on a regular basis? No way.

Not every person interacts with the world the same way you do. Maybe just learn to live with it?
   1706. Howie Menckel Posted: May 16, 2018 at 10:48 PM (#5673940)
yeah, that's not an uncommon trait

engage intensely in a lucrative but demanding field, then dial it down by embracing an "other world" before shutting it down
   1707. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 16, 2018 at 10:48 PM (#5673941)
I don't get why people like and don't like the things they do, but that doesn't mean they don't like em all the same. Vive la difference.
   1708. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 16, 2018 at 10:51 PM (#5673944)
Maybe just learn to live with it?
I do live with it, obviously (and literally - as I said earlier, my wife is a sucker for Grey's Anatomy and Sex and the City). I just don't get it at all.
   1709. PreservedFish Posted: May 16, 2018 at 11:09 PM (#5673952)
There's a part of me that enjoys monster trucks and stupid kung fu movies and the World's Strongest Man competition. It's not all inscrutable art house movies and dour Norwegian literature over here. I say cut the ladies some slack. Real Housewives may be their equivalent mindless entertainment.

Also, basically every intelligent woman my age loved Sex and the City. Not guilty pleasure loved, actually loved. I think if you're lumping that in with Teen Mom 2 and Honey Boo Boo you're using far too broad a brush.
   1710. BDC Posted: May 16, 2018 at 11:14 PM (#5673953)
I wasn’t taken with Tokyo Story, but maybe I just saw it at the wrong juncture in my life. I very much liked Ikiru, another of the Japanese neorealist classics.
   1711. PreservedFish Posted: May 16, 2018 at 11:18 PM (#5673955)
I've never actually seen Tokyo Story! I just reached for a director that I thought would be impervious to accusations of middlebrowness.
   1712. Howie Menckel Posted: May 16, 2018 at 11:30 PM (#5673962)
every intelligent woman my age loved Sex and the City.

I have a good friend whose wife left him because she was so obsessed with the show that she thought she had to live that life (wait, that was the GOOD life?).

was tough on him for a couple of years, but he met someone else far saner and they got married and have a kid together - and he is thankful to that dopey show beyond what he can describe.
Garth Brooks had a song kind of like that saga.
   1713. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 16, 2018 at 11:32 PM (#5673963)
The thing is, I'm not some high-culture art-house elitist. I've never read most of the "great dour books," I know nothing about art-house movies, my favorite artists are Springsteen, U2 and the Beatles - my only objection is to stuff that is actively making us dumber and/or more mindless as a society. It's just that there is so much of that these days.

And yes, I know that that lament has been made by just about every generation about the next one. Hell, I used to teach sociology of mass media & popular culture.
   1714. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 16, 2018 at 11:33 PM (#5673964)
I've never actually seen Tokyo Story! I just reached for a director that I thought would be impervious to accusations of middlebrowness.


It's an incredibly moving film. as is "Ikuru". The latter has one of the best final shots of any movie I've ever seen.

Yubisaki Nohaku, from their new EP. I think this is my favorite of their songs I've heard so far, blending a catchy tune with some suitably loud guitar bits. On the other hand, I have no idea what the dancer in the video is supposed to represent. Massively looking forward to seeing the band live next week.
   1715. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 16, 2018 at 11:43 PM (#5673967)
That's some damn good rock 'n' roll, Vortex. Although I agree that the dancer is baffling. Are you in Japan now or are they touring the US?
   1716. PreservedFish Posted: May 16, 2018 at 11:45 PM (#5673968)
my only objection is to stuff that is actively making us dumber and/or more mindless as a society. It's just that there is so much of that these days.


Cable TV does seem like a fertile ground for stupid. But I'm not sure I believe that the rest of the culture is any stupider than it ever has been.
   1717. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 16, 2018 at 11:45 PM (#5673969)
Are you in Japan now or are they touring the US?


They're playing some shows in Canada, and I'm going up there for one of them. Not playing any in the US, unfortunately.
   1718. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 16, 2018 at 11:50 PM (#5673974)
But I'm not sure I believe that the rest of the culture is any stupider than it ever has been.
I would say that pop music, in its current club-dominated incarnation, is as mindless as it's ever been (going back to the old "moon/June" love songs), but is way more aggressive about it, if that makes sense. I can't think of a better way to express it.
   1719. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: May 16, 2018 at 11:58 PM (#5673977)
I never used FB or Instagram. Observed Snapchat just to familiarize self with it but mostly to know what my kids will be getting into. I lurk a couple people I know on Twitter but never use it. Linkedin for professional use only.
I occasionally play Atari 2600 games. I rarely attend movies at theaters, haven't seen but maybe 1 comic movie.
Listen to a lot of alt/indy radio.
Long form TV, yes. Deadwood, the Americans, Saul, a few others. Life below zero is excellent.
I own one comic, something my Dad brought back from somewhere in the Middle East in the early 80s.
MLB, college football, women's volleyball, horse racing.
I'd rather work in the yard than watch tv.
   1720. PreservedFish Posted: May 17, 2018 at 12:03 AM (#5673979)
I would say that pop music, in its current club-dominated incarnation, is as mindless as it's ever been (going back to the old "moon/June" love songs), but is way more aggressive about it, if that makes sense. I can't think of a better way to express it.


I don't listen to enough of today's hits to really talk about this. But I will say that the top 40 is also less hegemonic than it ever has been. It's so much easier to find niches and explore your interests than it used to be, which can only encourage artful listening. A strong countervailing trend.
   1721. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 17, 2018 at 12:08 AM (#5673980)
It's so much easier to find niches and explore your interests than it used to be, which can only encourage artful listening.
This is undeniably true...which is why it's all the more frustrating that the stuff that becomes popular is, for the most part, so awful.
   1722. Eric L Posted: May 17, 2018 at 12:39 AM (#5673985)
Count as someone who is more middlebrow than I want to admit but loved Tokyo Story.

Maybe I didn't understand it but thought I did.
   1723. Omineca Greg Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:49 AM (#5673990)
OK, I find the occasional music segues here are an excellent place to discover bands and music I don't know well enough to even start. You and Omineca Greg were recent additions to my watch list.... you get a free T-shirt, secret decoder ring, and Official Zonk Music Library Sponsor card for that.


Thank you, that means a lot to me. When I link to music, (depending on the music) I wonder, "Is there even a single person who is going to like this?", so I appreciate the positive feedback.

My wife is the mathematician who reads crapola on her Kindle Unlimited relentlessly. I'm the baker who listens to Milford Graves, so I don't know.

From the interview in the link...

...so that's what I'm devoted to, improvisation of spontaneous music, and I think that's what we need on the planet right now, I think people...we could get more deep inside ourselves, because in general, we all have the potential to be smart, intelligent, and we got to bring it out of people

I should note that "challenging" art isn't necessarily challenging once you understand the language. I listen to some freaky ####, but I'm not necessarily getting challenged by it, or working hard to enjoy it. I didn't even have to work all that hard in the beginning, I trusted the artists, and I tried to be receptive to what they were doing. That's all, it has not much to do with intelligence, but more to do with, I don't know, a hospitable emotional state. Now, maybe you have to have some sort of intelligence to put yourself in such a non-judgmental place...it probably helps, but intelligence helps with most things.
   1724. PreservedFish Posted: May 17, 2018 at 07:51 AM (#5674001)
I know nothing about art-house movies, my favorite artists are Springsteen, U2 and the Beatles


I'm not sure that these bands are more complex than the crappier bands that they rose above. I think they were just better.

Again, as a guy that's attracted to simplicity in art, I don't think that shallow/complex is a useful dichotomy. I like Springsteen. I also like The Ramones.
   1725. PreservedFish Posted: May 17, 2018 at 07:52 AM (#5674002)
There is a sense in which it seems like you need to be smart to enjoy avant-garde art. I think that any art that consciously plays with form requires a measure of critical thinking to "get." That could be Albert Ayler or Mark Rothko or The Wire.
   1726. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: May 17, 2018 at 08:04 AM (#5674003)
I don't think that shallow/complex is a useful dichotomy


I agree, frankly I think it is a bit lazy to simply frame it as 'shallow/complex.' People are (usually) a little more nuanced than that. Perhaps too much weight is placed on our entertainment habits.
   1727. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 17, 2018 at 08:38 AM (#5674010)
Perhaps too much weight is placed on our entertainment habits.


Yes. Also, snobbery is a bad look in general.
   1728. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 17, 2018 at 08:41 AM (#5674012)
I'm not sure that these bands are more complex than the crappier bands that they rose above. I think they were just better.
I wasn't the one who introduced the concept of 'complex' into this discussion, and I agree that it's an awkward fit. Although I've used 'shallow,' I don't think 'complex' is exactly the right antonym for what I'm talking about, nor is 'shallow/complex' really the right dichotomy or axis. Something doesn't necessarily need to be complex to be thoughtful, insightful, etc. That's more the continuum I have in mind, from 'rewards/encourages mindlessness' to 'requires, rewards or encourages thoughtful engagement.' Admittedly these are very squishy terms and hard to pin down. It's much easier to discuss in terms of concrete examples, but of course trying to articulate some principles behind it is also useful.
   1729. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 17, 2018 at 08:44 AM (#5674013)
Also, snobbery is a bad look in general.
oh, come on. Being willing to call Justin Bieber or the Real Housewives or whatever 'crap' isn't snobbery. It's just not playing the total relativism game.
   1730. PreservedFish Posted: May 17, 2018 at 09:08 AM (#5674022)
When pushed I am probably a relativist. But true relativism is boring. More fun to pretend my opinions are correct.
   1731. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 17, 2018 at 09:44 AM (#5674030)
Being willing to call Justin Bieber or the Real Housewives or whatever 'crap' isn't snobbery.


I mean, it definitely is snobbery. At the same time, that's different from saying you're incorrect. And to segue to a different statement of value from what's being discussed, I believe it's better to unironically like something crap than to ironically like just about anything.
   1732. BDC Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:02 AM (#5674039)
Count as someone who is more middlebrow than I want to admit but loved Tokyo Story

I remember seeing Tokyo Story at some point when my parents were aging, or maybe after my father was widowed – there are some films that you just see at the wrong time in your life, and they're hard to take. I waited five years after my father died, for instance, to see the film Amour: I couldn't have borne it any earlier. That was probably my problem with Tokyo Story: too true to a certain phase of life.

Ikiru is similar, but I saw it much earlier in life when everybody was young and well :) There's some baseball in Ikiru, too. Worth seeing for many reasons.
   1733. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:08 AM (#5674043)
Although I agree that the dancer is baffling.


I mean, she's not even scantily dressed. Epic fail going by American video standards. SAD!

The song is good though. Thanks for posting.
   1734. Graham & the 15-win "ARod Vortex of suck" Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:11 AM (#5674049)
There is a sense in which it seems like you need to be smart to enjoy avant-garde art. I think that any art that consciously plays with form requires a measure of critical thinking to "get." That could be Albert Ayler or Mark Rothko or The Wire.


Oddly, this old Slate article says, "and one might argue that we are living in a golden age of middlebrow art: How else would one categorize shows like Breaking Bad, Mad Men, The Sopranos, and The Wire?" Middlebrow is a loaded term, but if The Wire is middlebrow, then is it possible for any TV show to be highbrow?
   1735. BDC Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:13 AM (#5674051)
I do think Fish makes a good point about some people's desire to avoid being tagged as middlebrow. John Fowles said something about the middle class (maybe quoting George Orwell): the only group that sincerely and habitually despises itself. That may apply to middling cultural tastes. I guess I am guilty of it when it comes to PBS or NPR. Or movies with titles and premises like The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel. La Dernière says that's a pretty good movie, but I would have to be heavily sedated and placed in restraints to watch it :)

Speaking of middlebrow, has anyone formed any pre-opinions about the movie Book Club, which opens tomorrow? It has 61 tomatoes, which may mean it's strongly a matter of taste rather than being notably good or bad. La D. was at first all for it, and then skeptical when she learned that the premise involved 50 Shades of Grey, and then thought it might be a laugh riot anyway. I'd go and see it if she wants. I actually liked The Jane Austen Book Club, which didn't have quite so farcical a premise.
   1736. McCoy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:16 AM (#5674054)
I'm quite happy being middle class. It's all I've have ever striven for.
   1737. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5674060)
I remember that Slate article. The argument, IIRC, was that there's nothing inherently wrong with being middlebrow.

Separately, there's also the question of whether anything from pop-culture can ever be more than middlebrow. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with that premise.

eta: Tonight I'm going to see the National Theater Live version of MacBeth with Rory Kinnear as the doomed Scot. If you like theater at all, especially Shakespearean theater, I very very much recommend finding out when a movie theater around you has a showing of NTL programs. Their Julius Caesar from earlier this year was excellent in performance and the best use of staging I've ever seen. Their cast for Miller's A View From the Bridge from a few years back was a freight train. I'm seeing the performance at a Rave cinema, and I'm not in a major city, so I'd guess they have pretty good distribution nationwide.
   1738. Stormy JE Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:22 AM (#5674062)
LAUREL.
   1739. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5674063)
Thank you, that means a lot to me. When I link to music, (depending on the music) I wonder, "Is there even a single person who is going to like this?", so I appreciate the positive feedback.


Well, thank you :-)

I enjoy discovering music beyond my current library - whether it's new or just new to me (or even not necessarily new to me, but just genres/artists I've never given a fair shake to)... so I do usually poke around anything someone posts, even if I don't comment on it. I'm fairly certain that it was here, on BBTF - perhaps way back in the pre-reg days even - when some offhand comment on the then-just released New Pornographers 2nd album (Electric Version) led me to the band. Ever since then, I've always found this place an oddly great place to expand my library. While I've got favorite genres and niches - I'm also relatively eclectic and the wide variety of tastes here actually works really well for such endeavors.

My "list", such as it is, is just general memory of posters tossing songs/artists/albums out that I ultimately snagged - I should really map selections to recommenders... then, when Jim Spotifies the place - I could sell him the data to create a suggestion service!
   1740. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:30 AM (#5674070)
LAUREL.


BOTH.
   1741. BDC Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:32 AM (#5674071)
I very very much recommend finding out when a movie theater around you has a showing of NTL programs

Seconded. We've seen an exciting production of Coriolanus (starring Tom Hiddleston), an ambitious if somewhat weird Hedda Gabler (Ruth Wilson), and a spectacular Angels in America (Nathan Lane, Andrew Garfield). Very different from film, and very compelling.
   1742. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:41 AM (#5674078)
I'm hearing YARREE, so I think everyone else is basically defective.
   1743. Hysterical & Useless Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5674084)
Hedda Gabler (Ruth Wilson),


Ruth Wilson has the sexiest overbite I've ever seen. Totally fell for her as the psycho in Luther. Sigh...
   1744. Hysterical & Useless Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5674085)
LAUREL.



BOTH.


My wife played that for me this morning. She hears "Laurel." Her hearing is pretty bad, so if you hear Laurel you should get your ears checked.
   1745. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5674088)
Laurel you idiots. Only defective weirdos like my wife and daughter are hearing Yenny.
   1746. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5674091)
I got the Yanni/Laurel thing from a friend last night and heard Laurel to the extent that I couldn't imagine anyone hearing anything else. Does that mean I've spent too much time playing in rock bands without earplugs?
   1747. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5674095)
"Curmudgeon" scores:
--Addicted to twitter, but rarely ever tweet, I use it as an aggregator, as I'm a total info junky. Essentially don't otherwise use social media.
--Every few years, I used to geek out on a text-bases sports game (OOTP, DDB, etc...) but haven't really played video games since the 90s.
--I'm now permanently delayed on catching up on music by a year or more - but still like the musics of today, across many genres.
--Never been a comic book person, regardless of format. That said, the bits I've seen in recent years have ranged from decent to good (WW) to very good (BP). Side note, he's most definitely a worthwhile read but this would not be the first time Tyler Cowen badly misread something in my opinion. YMMV. Another side note: anyone else not dig the Nolan Batman series? I don't think he trusts the viewers enough - over explains everything. It's a shame, he's very talented.
--Don't watch much TV (due to time, not lack of interest) but the long-form episodic dramas mentioned in a question that I've seen are good to great. Particularly The Wire, which exceeds its formidable hype.
--Like football but consciously chose to give it up as I spend too much time already on baseball/basketball and I'm not okay with several aspects of the football-industrial complex.

Are these the best measures of curmedgeonliness? Or being in touch with culture? We're in a long tail era - I'm not sure what it means anymore to be culturally literate.

Moreover, I'd like to think that we've societally (in terms of pop culture) moved closer to a philosophy of
Like what you like, subject to,
Don't actively hurt other people. (I could parse this further, but I'm disinclined to risk polluting the thread)

This extends to the question of "how can otherwise smart people like pop culture that I think is trash (Harlequin novels, true crime, whatever)?" On the one hand, beats me. On the other, we all (presumably) spend an inordinate amount of time talking about baseball. Not just baseball, but other people that we don't know and will never meet playing baseball, often hundreds of miles away from where we are. Ridiculous.
(My partner, a Ph.D. who I find brilliant and a cultural omnivore and funny and fun, knows more about slasher flicks than any other person I've ever met. I can't imagine many less appealing uses of time... though through exposure and listening to her I have learned that there's way more going on in these flicks than I'd've guessed.)
--
I think the term middlebrow has been sufficiently mis- or over-used to the point of losing meaning.
--
I don't get Rothko at all.
--
Relativism _is_ boring. I try to pretend I'm not one from time to time but zzzz.
--
Laurel. This correlates with age, right? Older people seem more apt to hear that, no? (oh, my GF also hears YARREE, fwiw.)
   1748. PepTech Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:59 AM (#5674102)
It's definitely both, and it matters how you're hearing it. I must have heard it on the radio about twelve times yesterday, and every time it was "Laurel" clear as day. Then they played it on the local TV news, and it was "Yanni" clear as day. One of the radio people said something similar - hearing it through her headphones was one thing, over the speakers was the other. So it's part your internal wiring, and part a function of how it is being broadcast to you. Both words are in the clip, one is just drowned out, almost but not entirely unlike how night vision works.

That stupid dress was white, though, dammit.
   1749. Omineca Greg Posted: May 17, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5674130)
I don't get Rothko at all.

I dunno, Rothko's portrait of the President is pretty good.
   1750. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 17, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5674137)
The song is good though. Thanks for posting.


Glad you enjoyed it.
   1751. PepTech Posted: May 17, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5674145)
--No social media profiles (except one on LinkedIn that I was forced to set up during law school but haven't checked in more than 3 years)
Check FB once a week or so to like whatever my wife has posted and note that my friends from high school and college have sure gotten old. Use LinkedIn for job searching. Never used anything else.

--Haven't played video games since, let's see...Super Nintendo
N64! Zelda and Mario64 are classics. Haven't actually sat and played through any game since Voodoo Vince and Crash Bandicoot: Wrath of Cortex (except for when I spent a year working on Crackdown 2!). Play phone apps when standing in line or sitting on the couch with one eye on Beat Bobby Flay.

--Can't stand club music, dance pop, EDM, most mainstream hip-hop, Ed Sheeran - basically anything you hear on a "Hot Hits" radio station
Pretty much aligned here, although Ed Sheeran doesn't bother me much. Stuck in Classic Rock mode, mostly. Does anyone write lyrics like, oh, Lyin' Eyes or Last Resort these days? Maybe Taylor Swift?

(And are those footprints? On MY lawn?)

--Don't see the point of superhero/comic book movies at all and haven't seen one since, I think, the Dark Knight (unless you count Star Wars?)
Have thoroughly enjoyed the MCU with my kids. Movies are what you make of them; have the right expectations/mindset and you can enjoy any genre. Infinity War and, say, Silver Linings Playbook (or The Gods Must Be Crazy) are at different ends of a pretty jumbled continuum, and some people move around that continuum freely. Some don't, and that's OK too. I strenuously object to dismissing any particular genre as pointless. I may not have use for them at any given time, but it's not for me get judgey about where others are on their continuum.

--Also don't get into long-form episodic dramas on TV, so haven't seen a minute of any of them (Sopranos, Lost, 24, Breaking Bad, the Wire, GoT, House of Cards, literally any of them)
Wish I had the time. Really enjoyed Lost (mixed on the end, but however they ended it was going to annoy some people), never saw Sopranos or Breaking Bad (little kids kept me kinda busy). Have managed to stay caught up on GoT, gave up awhile ago on Walking Dead. Overall impression is that TV has come a long way, and there's a tremendous amount of talent and effort that goes into the writing and execution of these shows. I look forward to retiring and some massive binges.

--Don't like football at all
Enjoy most sports, football and soccer are vying for #2. Basketball lost me when the Sonics were yanked away. Appreciate golf and tennis but can no longer sit and watch someone else do them. We'll see how hockey goes when it finally comes to Seattle, it's simply off the radar here for the most part. That's about to change. Would sit and watch Olympians be skilled at random sports for weeks.
   1752. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 17, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5674155)
Are these the best measures of curmedgeonliness? Or being in touch with culture? We're in a long tail era - I'm not sure what it means anymore to be culturally literate.
Oh, I have no idea - I was just kind of laughing at myself and tossing out ways in which I'm completely out of touch off the top of my head. I definitely don't assert those as the "best" measures of curmudgeonliness. I'm sure there are innumerable others we could discuss.
   1753. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 17, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5674163)

Ruth Wilson has the sexiest overbite I've ever seen. Totally fell for her as the psycho in Luther. Sigh...


Oh god yes.

I dunno, Rothko's portrait of the President is pretty good.


I'm never going to be able to think of this painting any other way.

That stupid dress was white, though, dammit.


Yeah, the dress was white. I initially thought black, but converted once someone pointed out the lighting. But anyone saying they can't hear Laurel/Yanny need to click through to the link I posted, it has a mixer where you will almost certainly be able to hear both by going to the far extremes.
   1754. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 17, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5674181)
--social media profiles: Have a Facebook account but almost never go there
--Haven't played video games since.... 1955, and that's only if you count pinball machines as video games
--Like jazz other than fusion, Old School R&B, bluegrass, gospel (black and white), classical, swing, lots of world music, and maybe in my next life I'll learn to like rap, but if there's a theme to my musical preferences, it's the presence of at least some trace of a melody. Probably just a function of time and place, no particular judgement implied.
--Superhero comics and movies are fine for 14 year olds. For adults I have to wonder.
--Long-form episodic dramas: Too many to keep up with, but I love Veep and The Deuce, and finally got around to liking Barry after the final episode.
--Love baseball from April to the World Series, pro football if it's the Ravens or the playoffs, March Madness, the NBA once the conference finals begin, plus any livestreamed pool tournament and the final day of the Masters and the U.S. Open. Can't ever watch hockey or soccer for more than two minutes without dozing off, but then if I'd grown up in Europe, South American or Canada I'm sure I'd appreciate those sports a lot more. Non-Americans seem to have much of the same problem with baseball and American football, and for much of the same reason(s). Everyone's tastes in cultural matters are mostly shaped by their life experiences.
   1755. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 17, 2018 at 12:12 PM (#5674182)
Are these the best measures of curmedgeonliness?

Not liking the things that everyone thinks you have to like in order to be A Citizen Of The Modern World. (smile)
   1756. Greg Pope Posted: May 17, 2018 at 12:12 PM (#5674183)
But anyone saying they can't hear Laurel/Yanny need to click through to the link I posted, it has a mixer where you will almost certainly be able to hear both by going to the far extremes.

My point is somewhere around two notches to the left. However, it changes depending on which side I'm coming from. If I start in the middle, it's Yanny and I have to get about 3 notches to the left of center to hear Laurel. But if I start on the left, I have to get to 2 notches to the left of center to hear Yanny. Even if I pause, wait a second, then play, it's the same thing.


Problem with the web site, or something strange going on in my brain?
   1757. PepTech Posted: May 17, 2018 at 12:15 PM (#5674184)
I vote brain.
   1758. Omineca Greg Posted: May 17, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5674185)
My point is somewhere around two notches to the left

I'm just short of one notch to the right. And like you, I fiddled around with different approaches, but in my case I couldn't get the spot to move.
   1759. BDC Posted: May 17, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5674191)
   1760. PepTech Posted: May 17, 2018 at 12:24 PM (#5674192)
Only a whiff of hypocrisy here...
--Probably just a function of time and place, no particular judgement implied.
--Superhero comics and movies are fine for 14 year olds. For adults I have to wonder.
--Long-form episodic dramas: Too many to keep up with, but I love Veep and The Deuce, and finally got around to liking Barry after the final episode.
--Love baseball from April to the World Series, pro football if it's the Ravens or the playoffs, March Madness, the NBA once the conference finals begin, plus any livestreamed pool tournament
You'll sit and watch other people shoot pool, and "wonder" about those who enjoy #### blowing up? Just embrace your implication of judgment already :)
   1761. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 17, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5674212)
You'll sit and watch other people shoot pool, and "wonder" about those who enjoy #### blowing up? Just embrace your implication of judgment already :)

Not sure what you're getting at, since I've also been playing pool for over 50 years and still play it regularly on a fairly high competitive level. I'm much more of a participant than a spectator.

But yeah, I do admit I find it a bit weird to see adults getting seriously into superhero comics and movies when the real world is out there for the taking, but then to each his own and it's mostly a harmless pursuit.
   1762. BDC Posted: May 17, 2018 at 12:43 PM (#5674217)
Superhero comics and movies are fine for 14 year olds. For adults I have to wonder

Oddly enough, I wonder if this has ever been true. When I was seven years old and loved Batman and Superman on TV, and read the comics too, 14-year-olds probably found them lame and stupid. When comics, and later movies, got really serious, complex, and adult, they probably left a lot of 14-year-olds behind.

What was the best time to be a 14-year-old comics fan? The heyday of The Incredible Hulk on TV, maybe – naturally this was 1979. Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns was in 1986, Tim Burton's Batman in 1989 – some 14-year-olds could get into them, sure, but they aren't limited YA entertainments.

The Christopher Reeve Superman films (1978-83) had a campy edge. They too could be fun for 14-year-olds, but the target audience were adults hip enough to enjoy them through the filter of the old-time comics they enjoyed when they were seven.
   1763. PreservedFish Posted: May 17, 2018 at 12:52 PM (#5674232)
My father took me to a competitive pool match when I was 13 or so. One guy broke, didn't sink any balls, and sat down. The next guy ran 10 tables in a row. Or 15. Whatever it is they do. The pool equivalent of bowling a 300 or pitching a perfect game. No idea how rare it is.

It was fun as a curiosity, but I don't need to see it again. They are so good and so clinical that I think it's rather like NASCAR in a way, where a crash is the only event of interest that can happen. They should make the holes smaller.
   1764. gef the talking mongoose, amorphous lefty blob Posted: May 17, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5674238)
I'm hearing YARREE, so I think everyone else is basically defective.


I heard that one on our social media manager's phone yesterday. And "Yanny" on her laptop that afternoon. And "Laurel" on my work laptop that morning.

Which reminds me that as of 4 hours ago I have a new work laptop. Lemme give it a try ...

"Laurel," unmistakably.
   1765. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:11 PM (#5674248)
What was the best time to be a 14-year-old comics fan?

George Perez's Teen Titans "Judas Contract" came out in 1984. Yes, yes, it's ubercreepy now, but at the time for a 14-year-old it was pretty magic. Also Paul Smith's X-men run was over that time. Byrne's Alpha Flight and then The Hulk.
   1766. PepTech Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:11 PM (#5674249)
Not sure what you're getting at, since I've also been playing pool for over 50 years and still play it regularly on a fairly high competitive level. I'm much more of a participant than a spectator.
I love pool, and would watch professionals play, and find all manner of enjoyment in the craft involved. But not everyone would, and that's OK. Those people might argue that it's silly and pointless to watch someone else do an ultimately silly and pointless activity.

What I'm "getting at" is that it's just as silly and pointless to watch superhero movies... except, maybe, one has appreciation for the crafts involved (acting, directing, costumes, writing, stunts, CGI, etc., etc.) So anyone enjoying either activity has no standing to cast aspersions on someone enjoying the other, or any other.

Not picking on you, specifically, just thought it was amusing when you claimed you weren't being judgey and in the next sentence questioned the maturity of "others" and their choices of activities. Certainly others here are far ruder with their dismissals of various genres.
   1767. PreservedFish Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5674251)
But yeah, I do admit I find it a bit weird to see adults getting seriously into superhero comics and movies when the real world is out there for the taking


Does obsessively recording very old movies on cable tv count as taking on the real world?
   1768. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:15 PM (#5674257)
My father took me to a competitive pool match when I was 13 or so. One guy broke, didn't sink any balls, and sat down. The next guy ran 10 tables in a row. Or 15. Whatever it is they do. The pool equivalent of bowling a 300 or pitching a perfect game. No idea how rare it is. It was fun as a curiosity, but I don't need to see it again.

It's a lot like golf. I can watch 4-5 hours of the TPC because I play golf, and it's generally the same for pool. While nowhere near Andy's level, I was in a competitive league for years, so it's interesting for me to watch.

As far as comics and comics films, maybe there's a line for early interest vs. later movie obsessiveness. I was an actual collector for years as a kid and early adult, I worked in a store, read untold thousands of comics. Even though I don't buy much or anything anymore, I still keep track of the industry and the storylines, and I WANT to see the movies to see how everything looks moving around.
   1769. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:16 PM (#5674261)
Superhero comics and movies are fine for 14 year olds. For adults I have to wonder

Oddly enough, I wonder if this has ever been true. When I was seven years old and loved Batman and Superman on TV, and read the comics too, 14-year-olds probably found them lame and stupid. When comics, and later movies, got really serious, complex, and adult, they probably left a lot of 14-year-olds behind.

What was the best time to be a 14-year-old comics fan? The heyday of The Incredible Hulk on TV, maybe – naturally this was 1979. Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns was in 1986, Tim Burton's Batman in 1989 – some 14-year-olds could get into them, sure, but they aren't limited YA entertainments.

The Christopher Reeve Superman films (1978-83) had a campy edge. They too could be fun for 14-year-olds, but the target audience were adults hip enough to enjoy them through the filter of the old-time comics they enjoyed when they were seven.


Okay, you make a reasonable point here about the nostalgic and camp appeal of superhero comics and movies.** It's only when adults act like lit crit academics and start talking about superhero movies / comic books as if they were Great Works of Art that I start rolling my eyes in wonder.

** And I'd be a complete hypocrite if I didn't acknowledge it, since I made a good living for several years in the 70's showing bootleg 16mm copies of old 50's TV shows on college campuses, including the original TV version of Superman. But for that audience it was a one-and-done thing, and they didn't pretend it was anything more than silly stuff from their childhoods, along with the Mickey Mouse Club and other shows aimed at pre-pubescents. Fortunately the great age of Deconstruction hadn't quite yet taken root.
   1770. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:20 PM (#5674268)
It's only when adults act like lit crit academics and start talking about superhero movies / comic books as if they were Great Works of Art that I start rolling my eyes in wonder.

No one anywhere has talked about any comic book film as a great work of art. And if Winsor McCay was a great artist, the genre he spawned certainly contains many great works of art. Don't be such a goddamned old person.
   1771. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5674271)
My father took me to a competitive pool match when I was 13 or so. One guy broke, didn't sink any balls, and sat down. The next guy ran 10 tables in a row. Or 15. Whatever it is they do. The pool equivalent of bowling a 300 or pitching a perfect game. No idea how rare it is. It was fun as a curiosity, but I don't need to see it again.

That would have been straight pool, which I find every bit as boring as you do, even if a great player runs out the entire match** while leaving his opponent in his chair, which is what you saw. Games like 9 ball and 10 ball are much quicker and feature much more compelling shot making, which is why those are my games of choice.

** 15 balls x 10 racks = a match to 150, which is the standard finishing point of that particular game.
   1772. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5674279)
It's only when adults act like lit crit academics and start talking about superhero movies / comic books as if they were Great Works of Art that I start rolling my eyes in wonder.

No one anywhere has talked about any comic book film as a great work of art. And if Winsor McCay was a great artist, the genre he spawned certainly contains many great works of art. Don't be such a goddamned old person.


Winsor McCay was beyond being great,** but I wasn't aware he drew superheroes. His two most remembered features (Little Nemo and Dreams of the Rarebit Fiend) could best be described as whimsical flights of fancy.

** As were tons of other comic strip and comic book artists. I think we may be talking past one another here.
   1773. jmurph Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:33 PM (#5674286)
No one anywhere has talked about any comic book film as a great work of art.

The opening discussion in this thread of whatever the latest Marvel movie is would like a word with you.
   1774. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:41 PM (#5674294)
Great FILM or great WORK OF ART?
   1775. jmurph Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:42 PM (#5674297)
I don't understand the distinction?
   1776. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5674298)
But yeah, I do admit I find it a bit weird to see adults getting seriously into superhero comics and movies when the real world is out there for the taking

Does obsessively recording very old movies on cable tv count as taking on the real world?


Depends on what type of movies you're talking about, but then this also wasn't something I was doing until I was several years into retirement.
   1777. PreservedFish Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5674300)
Why do 9 and 10-ball have more compelling shot-making?
   1778. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5674302)
I don't understand the distinction?

I guess everyone considers DIE HARD to be a great film. No one considers it to be a great work of art. TERMINATOR, etc.
   1779. jmurph Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:47 PM (#5674304)
I guess everyone considers DIE HARD to be a great film. No one considers it to be a great work of art.

Hmmm I see what you're saying but I'm not signing on to this one. Film is an art form, and therefore if we're calling something a great film we should probably be willing to stand up for it being great art.

That's what I believe, at least, but I'm sure I've violated this myself many times!
   1780. Omineca Greg Posted: May 17, 2018 at 01:55 PM (#5674309)
Real life conversation in an Ominecan household last night...

Her: Greg? What you are listening to?

Me: Anthony Braxton and Sam Rivers. Isn't it the ####?

Her: "The ####\"? As a compliment? You say things like that to confuse the squares, don't you?

Me: There's nothing square about you, baby! You've got curves in all the right places. Like a Pyrenees highway! VROOM ############# VROOM!

Her: I know you think you're being cute, but you're just about to talk yourself out of a proposition...

Me: Oh?

Her: I'll let you make sweet love to me, but on one condition.

Me: Oh?

Her: You'll have to turn off that awful noise. And leave it off for the rest of the evening.

Me: Well, sure!

Her: And understand this is a one time offer, I don't want to incentivize you listening to that. Understand me well, free jazz will only get you so far with me.

Me: I'm just about to make you roll your eyes and grit your teeth. How much further is there? With you?

Her: Give up the free jazz and find out...

Me: Oh, as a younger man I might have gone for that...but not now. Tzadik has a heck of a re-issue program right now!

Her: OK, your loss...

Then a whole bunch of stuff happened, I'll spare you the details, but right in the middle of all the huffing and puffing...

Her: There, isn't that better than Anthony Braxton?

There are apparently a few things you should never say when you're in somebody else. Probably more than a few things, but last night I found a new set. So, let's rewind a little bit, and start it up again...

Her: There, isn't that better than Anthony Braxton?

Me: I dunno, your пизда has never won a MacArthur Fellowship...as far as I know, it's never even been short-listed.

Her: [roll eyes] not in a good way. [steely glare] not in a good way. [curling lip] not in a good way.

Oh Oh. I'd pushed it to far...had to think fast.

Me: But then again, the awarding committee has never met our children.

Her: [sigh] You realise you're constantly just one quip away from being homeless, don't you?

Me: You're a good hearted woman in love with a good timin' man, no one would deny it.

Her: Willie or Waylon?

Me: Why not both?

Her: Oh, I can't stay mad at you.

There you go, another instalment of "Pillow Talk: Ominecan Style."

   1781. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 17, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5674316)
As far as comics and comics films, maybe there's a line for early interest vs. later movie obsessiveness. I was an actual collector for years as a kid and early adult, I worked in a store, read untold thousands of comics. Even though I don't buy much or anything anymore, I still keep track of the industry and the storylines, and I WANT to see the movies to see how everything looks moving around.

I learned how to read on the Sunday Comics of the old NY Herald Tribune, and at one point I had well over 1000 comic books. But like baseball cards, they had a definite shelf life, and my parents made me get rid of them when I was 14. I sold them to a dealer for a penny apiece to finance my first date, and now all I have are books that reprint some of my favorites (Winsor McCay, Krazy Kat, Pogo, etc., and the campiest of all camp strips, Little Orphan Annie). I probably had some Supermans in that former hoard, but once I got rid of them I pretty much devoted all my idle hours to playing baseball. At that point I simply stopped being able to relate to superheroes of any kind, and that was that. I still like plenty of comics today, but they're more along the lines of Tom the Dancing Bug and Tom Tomorrow than most of the ones they run in the Washington Post.

EDIT: And if Omineca Greg ever decided to take his talents to comic books, I might start up a new collection. I already have a collection of Jack Keefe in the comic strip version of You Know Me, Al.
   1782. PepTech Posted: May 17, 2018 at 02:09 PM (#5674327)
You did NOT say "Pyrenees highway". I call shenanigans.
   1783. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 17, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5674336)
Why do 9 and 10-ball have more compelling shot-making?

Because they're rotation games, where you have to begin with the 1-ball and work your way up to the 9 or the 10. In straight pool, the first shot is a defensive "soft" break, and the balls usually stay on the bottom half of the table throughout each rack. Therefore while the main skill required is precise positioning with the cue ball, the cue ball seldom travels more than a foot or two between shots.

OTOH in 9-ball or 10-ball, there's a "hard" break that scatters the balls all over the table. And as a consequence, you frequently need to use a power stroke in order to move the cue ball from one end of the table to the other, and those types of shots will appear far more obviously "difficult" to the average spectator than a straight pool shot where the skill involves moving the cue ball (say) 7 inches rather than 8 inches, where 7 inches leaves you in a position to run the rack while 8 inches leaves you with no way to proceed.

Maybe the best way to illustrate the skill set involved in 9-ball would be the final game of the 2001 International Challenge of Champions, between Taiwan's Chao Fong-Pang and the Philippines' Francisco Bustamante. The narration isn't in English, but you don't need any narration to appreciate the incredible skill that's on display here, particularly the final 7 ball shot of Chao Fong-Pang that sets up the last 2 balls.
   1784. PreservedFish Posted: May 17, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5674346)
Thanks for the response!
   1785. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 17, 2018 at 02:36 PM (#5674361)
Thanks for the response!

Just to put it in a bit of perspective, that first shot (on the 1-ball) of Chao Fong-Pang was probably about 1 in 1000, while the spectacular jump shot on the 7 ball that set up the final 2 balls was at best 1 in 500. The combination of power and precision needed to execute two shots like that in succession was the equivalent of a baseball player hitting a 100 MPH spitball off his shoetops over the bleachers in Yankee Stadium. It was just about that impossible, and yet he did it.
   1786. PreservedFish Posted: May 17, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5674374)
Holy #### that first shot was incredible.
   1787. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5674384)
Heh. Pretty crazy.

Andy, regarding the path of that scratch on the break - as no other balls knocked into it, would that be considered an unforced error by Bustamante?
   1788. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:03 PM (#5674395)
Holy #### that first shot was incredible.

What makes it even more incredible was that if you look closely, you'll see that because of the other ball partially blocking the pocket, the 1-ball had slightly less than half a pocket to go into. And to put that into further perspective, the standard width of a pool table pocket is about 2 1/4 balls wide, which means that there was almost literally no margin for error.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Andy, regarding the path of that scratch on the break - as no other balls knocked into it, would that be considered an unforced error by Bustamante?

I'm honestly not 100% sure whether scratches on the break are counted as errors in the stats, but I think they are, and probably irregardless of whether they were kicked in or not.
   1789. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:10 PM (#5674403)
-- I use Facebook, but generally regret engaging actively. I'll use Twitter when something's up, but never tweet. Will browse Insta.

-- Until recently, would NBA2K and Halo Online frequently. Now, just baseball sims.

-- I think some of the best music in my lifetime is being turned out right now. A lot of crap, too, but the democratization of musical outlets has been nothing but good with respect to finding new bands and new songs. Between that and my infatuation with classic jazz over the past decade, I've got more than enough new music to last me the rest of my life.

-- I love me some comic books. I'll generally wait for the graphic novel collections, but I love nothing than browsing the local indie-owned comic store, chatting with the owner, looking at the posters, etc. The movies vary in quality, but I've generally enjoyed the Marvel movies very much. People who judge me for liking that stuff are, to me, intellectually inflexible and not worth my time. I will say that I understand why people who grew up in the 50s and early 60s look down on comics. The comic books of the time were, generally speaking, Comic Code garbage. If you grew up with Chris Claremont, John Byrne, Alan Moore, Jim Shooter, Neil Gaiman, and Frank Miller like I did, then you got something totally different and very worthwhile.

-- I'll binge action/comedy stuff when I'm working out, at the dog park, doing laundry, etc; doing mindless stuff. if I want my brain to work, then I'll listen to a podcast or audiobook, or get an actual book.

-- All baseball, all the time. I'll use the NBA to tide me over during the winter.

I'm a middle-aged man, but you people make me feel so young and hip!
   1790. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:10 PM (#5674404)
I'm honestly not 100% sure whether scratches on the break are counted as errors in the stats, but I think they are, and probably irregardless of whether they were kicked in or not.

Well, I didn't even mean in stats (which I didn't know existed), I meant more in the opinion of players. He hit it with a type of english and angle that brought it all the way straight back into the corner. Is that not something players would consider a screw-up rather than a bad break?
   1791. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:12 PM (#5674405)
If you grew up with Chris Claremont, John Byrne, Alan Moore, Jim Shooter, Neil Gaiman, and Frank Miller like I did, then you got something totally different and very worthwhile.

Right. Walking (completely) away when you've had that kind of intro seems impossible.

EDIT: HOLY WHAT THE HELL, SHOOTER? Someone call Constantine for LAHA. Get a big mirror.
   1792. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:18 PM (#5674415)
John Constantine's gonna be a regular on the Legends of Tomorrow next season! I CAN'T WAIT.
   1793. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5674418)
I'm honestly not 100% sure whether scratches on the break are counted as errors in the stats, but I think they are, and probably irregardless of whether they were kicked in or not.

Well, I didn't even mean in stats (which I didn't know existed), I meant more in the opinion of players. He hit it with a type of english and angle that brought it all the way straight back into the corner. Is that not something players would consider a screw-up rather than a bad break?


Okay, I didn't understand your original question. But yes, when a ball scratches without being kicked in by another ball, it's definitely considered an unforced error, though to some extent all scratches are considered to be at least partly just bad luck, and less blameworthy than missing a "makeable" shot.
   1794. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:30 PM (#5674421)
That is an incredible pool game, and I say that as someone who doesn't understand nearly enough about the game to truly appreciate it. That first shot is obviously insanely difficult though. Wow.

And yes I am looking forward to Constantine on Legends. It was my least favorite of the CW superhero shows, but it has gotten much better. Unlike ... say ... Arrow. Glum, repetitive and unlearning Arrow.
   1795. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5674424)
John Constantine's gonna be a regular on the Legends of Tomorrow next season! I CAN'T WAIT.

No, seriously, Jim Shooter?
   1796. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5674426)
I really loved Magnus Robot Fighter. I know I'm alone on this one.
   1797. gef the talking mongoose, amorphous lefty blob Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5674427)
If you grew up with Chris Claremont, John Byrne, Alan Moore, Jim Shooter, Neil Gaiman, and Frank Miller like I did, then you got something totally different and very worthwhile.


Even setting aside my utter enmity toward Miller for being a frothing fascist (something I see he's attempted to walk back of late), I must say that the art of his I've seen over the last, I dunno, 30ish years is absolutely, grotesquely ghastly. It's as if he sustained some sort of horrible blow to the head. Perhaps he was OK on Daredevil; I've never read those issues.
   1798. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:38 PM (#5674428)
No, seriously, Jim Shooter?


I mistook your first comment to be about another poster. But yeah, Jim Shooter? Really? Remove him and add in Walt Simonson and then I think it is a solid list. Perhaps not totally complete, but solid.
   1799. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:40 PM (#5674431)
Even setting aside my utter enmity toward Miller for being a frothing fascist (something I see he's attempted to walk back of late), I must say that the art of his I've seen over the last, I dunno, 30ish years is absolutely, grotesquely ghastly. Perhaps he was OK on Daredevil; I've never read those issues.



In the 80s Frank Miller was amazing. Truly. His Daredevil run was fantastic, and that is underselling it. I took the comment as to just that incarnation of Miller and not the nut-job he evolved into.
   1800. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5674437)
Shooter's a personal favorite. If you want to say that Simonson (a legitimately inner-circle guy) is better, I have no argument. I loved Magnus Robot Fighter, and I loved the feel of Valiant Comics back in that day. When the anti-heroes and the EXTREME Liefield-esque characters took over comics in the late 80s/early 90s, I bailed on Marvel and DC. For a while Shooter was literally my favorite.
Even setting aside my utter enmity toward Miller for being a frothing fascist (something I see he's attempted to walk back of late), I must say that the art of his I've seen over the last, I dunno, 30ish years is absolutely, grotesquely ghastly.
Miller wasn't always crazy. The Dark Knight Returns was the big pop culture meteor strike, but the regular on-going Daredevil stuff was revolutionary. I think success went to his head. He pushed for more and more new ideas, and ended up going to a place that was just dumb. The decline in the quality of his work was rapid, and IMO he's never come back from it. He's lived off DKR and 300 for decades, and they've cast a big enough shadow that no one's really noticed he's been well below average for a generation.
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