Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Saturday, April 21, 2018

OT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (April - June 2018)

The following is previously unseen rehearsal footage of Prince & The Revolution from the summer of 1984.

It was in this very room at Flying Cloud Drive Warehouse in Eden Prairie, Minnesota that Prince created and committed to tape one of his most beloved and iconic compositions, which six years later would become a worldwide hit for Sinead O’Connor.

Prince’s original studio version of ‘Nothing Compares 2 U’ is presented here for the first time.

Trial to see if there’s sufficient support to make this a thing.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: April 21, 2018 at 02:32 PM | 3812 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movies, music, off-topic, television, whatever else belongs under the rubric of 'popular culture'

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 19 of 39 pages ‹ First  < 17 18 19 20 21 >  Last ›
   1801. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:50 PM (#5674439)
Flip
   1802. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 17, 2018 at 03:53 PM (#5674444)
I loved Magnus Robot Fighter, and I loved the feel of Valiant Comics back in that day. When the anti-heroes and the EXTREME Liefield-esque characters took over comics in the late 80s/early 90s, I bailed on Marvel and DC. For a while Shooter was literally my favorite.


I know Shooter more as the Editor, and I don't think I read any of the titles you reference. My comic reading was entirely dependent on what my friends bought. But for 8 years (High School and College) I read many many Marvel titles, but by the late 80s college was done and I didn't know any huge comic readers in Grad school.
   1803. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 17, 2018 at 04:01 PM (#5674453)
I know Shooter more as the Editor,
I thought he was a great editor for Marvel, and when he left, the company quickly veered off into gimmick-laden, "collector's edition" stuff, mindless Punisher rip-offs, one-shots, etc. I hated that it happened. I felt it ruined the X-Men (my favorite comic at the time), prices were driven up, and quality was driven down. I don't think it's a coincidence that Marvel filed for bankruptcy less than a decade after Shooter was canned.

The 90s were a weak time for comics. Batman seemed to be the only major character to weather that era with any dignity.
   1804. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5674457)
Miller wasn't always crazy.

That's about the size of it, yes. And he was probably never as crazy as poor Dave Sim got.


The Dark Knight Returns was the big pop culture meteor strike, but the regular on-going Daredevil stuff was revolutionary.

Ronin never gets enough credit.


Shooter's a personal favorite.

I can grok personal favorites. Really, for me, Secret Wars was about the most disappointing thing I have ever read. It was truly upsetting. It is difficult for me to forgive him for that taint, then or now. If you want to offer a Shooter antidote for that, I will certainly search it out.

My negative opinion is based solely on his writing. His editorial work may have been better, but blaming Marvel's driving into a ditch on Shooter being canned seems a stretch. Maybe not - I should probably read all the history books on Marvel I never seem to get to.
   1805. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 17, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5674464)
...and we're back to comics and superheroes. Probably inevitably.
   1806. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 17, 2018 at 04:16 PM (#5674467)
...and we're back to comics and superheroes.


Webcomics or GTFO.
   1807. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 17, 2018 at 04:18 PM (#5674469)
I can grok personal favorites. Really, for me, Secret Wars was about the most disappointing thing I have ever read. It was truly upsetting.
It hasn't aged well, I'll allow that, and the subsequent sequels were meh. When the original series came out, I thought it was the most epic thing in human history. I think I was maybe... 12? at the time? I dunno. It was awesome, and if you didn't like then, I dunno what to tell ya. Like I said, if you can find Magnus, Robot Fighter anywhere, I think you'd like it. Shooter likes to tell sprawling stories that need long arcs, and I do like that style of plotting very much.

blaming Marvel's driving into a ditch on Shooter being canned seems a stretch. Maybe not - I should probably read all the history books on Marvel I never seem to get to.
The economic pressures and lures of the time no doubt were the main drivers of that, but Shooter was very much against that sort of thing, and I think he'd have fought to keep Marvel on the right course had he stayed at the helm. On the other hand, I've read interviews with him about the industry now, and he just sounds like another old man shouting at clouds, so who knows.
   1808. McCoy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 04:19 PM (#5674473)
Well, I can ask what everyone is playing out of M:TG Dominaria if you would like? Got the whole set but haven't really gone through it like I did for the Ixalan series. Don't know how Ixalan played but I really liked the look, style, type of cards they had in that series.
   1809. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 17, 2018 at 04:23 PM (#5674477)
...and we're back to comics and superheroes.
As opposed to adjusting to not needing two spaces after periods? You can't talk about contemporary pop culture without talking about comic heroes. Pretending otherwise makes this just another old-man, back-in-the-day thread.
   1810. The Good Face Posted: May 17, 2018 at 04:23 PM (#5674478)
...and we're back to comics and superheroes.

Webcomics or GTFO.


Kill Six Billion Demons is amazing. You're welcome.
   1811. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2018 at 04:23 PM (#5674479)
It hasn't aged well

Yes, well. That follows. :-)


I think I was maybe... 12? at the time? I dunno.

I was a hardened 15 at the time, that may have been the issue.


...and we're back to comics and superheroes. Probably inevitably.

Open forum!
   1812. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 17, 2018 at 04:29 PM (#5674484)
Kill Six Billion Demons is amazing. You're welcome.


Tha madder-trollop! Tha trogolodytic spawn! That was going to be one of my first recommendations!
   1813. BDC Posted: May 17, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5674521)
Webcomics or GTFO

Not superhero stuff, but Perry Bible Fellowship is a longtime favorite of mine.
   1814. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 17, 2018 at 05:28 PM (#5674545)
Three favorites, each different in style:
Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal: Gag-a-day slander of economists, mathematicians, artists, and humanity.
Scary Go Round: Yorkshire weirdness, mystery solving teens, and Wales is OK.
Girl Genius: Mad science in a steampunk-esque Europe,

All have at least a decade of archives available for anyone to read. Each link goes to a specific page that either typifies the work or is a jumping in point to see if you like it.

Also seconding Kill Six Billion Demons.
   1815. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 05:31 PM (#5674549)
I'm a few pages behind, so I'm responding as I go... As far as Black Panther goes, I'm a fan of the movie, it's not the best Marvel movie, but in my opinion it is about the only Marvel movie that doesn't have large mistakes. (Civil War which is my favorite Marvel movie, has too much of a contrived ending, but it is more enjoyable----with BP everything flows correctly, the characters act reasonable based upon their world view and experiences. After watching it, I posted on facebook to my friends that I think it is the only Marvel movie without a flaw...)


Honestly my only nitpick is that the movie made Wakanda too reliant on Vibranium for their powers, when the original argument about Wakanda's technological advancement was made was(simplified) "Imagine if there was a country in Africa that never succumbed to outside forces... this is where all life came from, so a country there that was allowed to grow on it's own without strife, would logically be more technologically advanced than other countries, simply because of it's age." (roughly speaking that was the original simple concept that introduced Black Panther to the world of comics...the vibranium mound was just an extension of the argument that Africa is a bountiful supply of resources. But it rarely figured into the reason that Wakanda was so successful, to an extent.)
   1816. Chokeland Bill Posted: May 17, 2018 at 05:36 PM (#5674559)
It's actually somewhat difficult to decide whether Frank Miller's art skills or writing skills declined the most. His figure work now is abysmal, but he still has a pretty good grasp of layout and posing. His writing has become self-parody, but I think the recent Dark Knight Returns: The Last Crusade was actually pretty decent. He was probably the best creator of the 80s if you account for both writing and art. Second best writer and one of the better artists.

Jim Shooter was somewhat ahead of his time as a writer in the 60s on Legion of Superheroes.

   1817. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5674565)

I thought Vince D'onofrio's portrayal of Wilson Fiske ("The Kingpin") in the Netflix "Daredevil" series was outstanding and really carried the entire show. None of the other Netflix Marvel cast-off series have held my interest.


I think that the Marvel Netflix shows often miss the point, they create great villains and about half way through kill them as a fake out, but Kingpin and Purpleman(Killgrave/David Tenant) were great. In Cage the original bad guy Cottonmouth was kinda interesting, his sister who ended up being the big bad at the end was boring. The show went off the rails the last few episodes trying to be surprising on who the real big bad was. (Mind you I have liked every Netflix series including Iron Fist---although the fight choreography was a joke on that show, which is a big mistake, as that is the one show in which the fight choreographer should be among the highest paid people on set. Of course the main actor was miscast, but I think he did a good job with the hand he was dealt)(Defenders ran into the same problem, created a big bad, killed them off to replace them with a random character(Elektra) just because. It didn't really work for the story.
   1818. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 05:55 PM (#5674583)
Fisk in the show was good, but Killgrave (Jessica Jones) is the best villain Marvel has put out IMO. Thanos was better than he had any right to be.


I fully support this.

I think that Marvel villains all line up behind Killgrave. He's probably the cream of the crop, and Marvel doesn't do villains as well as DC, but you still have Killgrave, Thanos, Loki, Kingpin all very well done. I like Grant whovever he is, in Agents of Shield, but that is because he was a good guy first and you already formed an attachment to him. At the same time Marvel constantly makes crap villains, and I have to agree with those who say that often the entire job of the villain is to move the hero story arc along, instead of doing their own thing. Iron Man never had a good villain in any of it's trilogy. Ultron didn't work out for the Avengers, and Loki was already established, but the story in the Avengers, he didn't really do much... outside of open a portal---he was best on the Heli-carrier, he shined there... and a couple of moments in battles, so he wasn't bad, just not good either. In baseball terms, in Thor he was a 4 War villain, in Avengers he was a 2.5 War villain.. above average but not really in the 8+ war range that you get out of either Nicholson or Ledger's Joker or Hans Gruber from Die Hard. Or even Ra's Al or Killgrave 6+ war villains. (note for the record I prefer Killgrave over Ledger but I know full and well that is heretical to everyone as Ledger is some type of villain movie god)


Note: Thanos was way better than he should have been. I was going into the movie with trepidation because Thanos really hadn't been established and in the comics, to make Thanos work, requires a lot of long development, and I didn't see how they could do this in a movie with something like 30 main characters, but they made a very wise decision to make him the primary main character of the movie and it worked out very well in my opinion, the best Avengers movie so far, and probably top 2-7 Marvel movie(depending on my mood) (Again, even with the forced ending, Civil War wins it for me.--but I'm a Captain America fan first and foremost---I literally joined the Marines because of belief's instilled in my by Captain America--I'm a much bigger fan of Cap than I am of the Cardinals.)
   1819. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 06:09 PM (#5674601)

I don't find Nicholson or Ledger's Jokers to be all that complex. They're both a great deal of fun, but I don't see much depth to them beyond "look at me I'm so crazy and unpredictable and maybe I have a plan or maybe I'm just having a joke." I really enjoyed both performances, and they absolutely improve the movies they're in, but I just don't see the complexity of a Killmonger or Captain Zemo in them.


I'm quoting this because I agree. Still they are great villains. So I'm fine with them... before the prequels, Darth Vader had no depth, (well before his last scene in Empire at least) he was just a bad guy going about being a bad guy, but he was doing it awesomely and it worked. You don't have to have depth to be a bad guy, you do need to make the audience feel like you are a bad guy... (note: that was just a basic statement, there are so many good ways to make good bad guys that there isn't one true way.... if you think of the popular bad guys in different genres they get there in so many different ways.... ultimately it is about being presented in a way that resonates with the audience... Killmonger is psychotic, that much is very clear, but he's not wrong, and that much is also clear, this makes him interesting....and I'm sorry but if Michael B Jordan doesn't convey charisma/q factor/or whatever for you.... you are a lost cause)

Joker doesn't need depth, he needs unpredictability, he needs to do something surprising while being psychotic, he needs to steal any scene he shows up in... a Joker origin movie would be about the dumbest things any studio could ever do....He's not a relateable villain, he's just a crazy unpredictable psychopath that you have to hope to outguess.. That is his appeal. I love the Joker, but he's not my favorite Batman Villain(movie universe probably because he worked and the others failed...but in the comic Ra's Al is clearly the best Batman villain, and poor Bane in the movies has been greatly diminished from his comic origins---this is a guy who figured out who Batman was, who beat batman by knowing that Batman finds a way, and therefore his best chance was a campaign of chaos to wear him down to the point that he wasn't at his peak during the final confrontation, it's a great plan and it worked very well. after that point he's been Worfed in the comic book world and in the movie world, neither of his appearances has been about the actual character---heck his origin was given to Talia in the Nolan movie)
   1820. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 06:25 PM (#5674609)

It's hard to ever know someone enough to prescribe "only", though...

I dated a girl some years back who rabidly followed Perez Hilton on social media, forced me to watch The Bachelor, and when she got her way on bog standard weekends - forced me to places with pulsating dance music where every song seemed to be "her favorite".

She was also an art history major at a fairly prestigious college, had a JD and worked as counsel for a Nfp, and for special occasions - preferred I got opera tickets (in fact, the only three operas I ever attended were with her).

I always suspected that some of the former were more sort 'street cred' defense mechanisms of a sort... but then - while I'd certainly to defer to Shredder, Sam, or maybe Gef on what's new and interesting on the fringe music scene, I like to think I'm not too far out of the loop (I'm going to see Charly Bliss tomorrow... does that count for something?), I can also crapfest tired radio standards from 10-20-30 years ago with the best of them.


Or maybe she just accepted being comfortable liking what she liked. There is no reason that one has to like something of one type and that it's anathema to a different type. There is no reason that a person who likes wrestling cannot also like classical opera. Often times it's just what you are exposed to... heck a person who grows up in either of those environments, will probably build innate barriers against even attempting to appreciate the others, and it's their prejudices that are preventing them from enjoying something that they might enjoy. Maybe she just destroyed those barriers built in her and said "Let's give this a try and see if it works for me."

I make fun of reality shows all the time...yet every year there seems to be one or two that I end up following for some reason (Last year it was America's got Talent because I had been following Darci Lynne for about a year before it, and Kids baking championship---a few years ago it was the year Crystal Bowersox was on American Idol--just because my bar was showing it when I showed up) These aren't shows I think I would like, and I generally don't like them, but sometimes they work for me, and I'm not going to not watch something because of some long held prejudices I might have had (honestly I learned that with Desperate Housewives.... Love the show, even though I refused to watch it for about 4 seasons, then started catching it randomly on late night rebroadcasts and it worked.... went out and got the DVD's for super cheap, and watched them all...don't regret a thing)
   1821. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 06:40 PM (#5674613)

Cable TV does seem like a fertile ground for stupid. But I'm not sure I believe that the rest of the culture is any stupider than it ever has been


This is my lament. We get people who grew up with Gilligan's Island or Three's company complaining about current TV standards... the standards haven't ever been high, it's been about what appeals to the masses...And there is nothing wrong with that. You go to work, you work and at the end of the day, you come home and you want to sit down and just relax. A goofy show about a group of castaways might be exactly what the doctor ordered.

   1822. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 06:52 PM (#5674616)
Oddly enough, I wonder if this has ever been true. When I was seven years old and loved Batman and Superman on TV, and read the comics too, 14-year-olds probably found them lame and stupid. When comics, and later movies, got really serious, complex, and adult, they probably left a lot of 14-year-olds behind.

What was the best time to be a 14-year-old comics fan? The heyday of The Incredible Hulk on TV, maybe – naturally this was 1979. Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns was in 1986, Tim Burton's Batman in 1989 – some 14-year-olds could get into them, sure, but they aren't limited YA entertainments.

The Christopher Reeve Superman films (1978-83) had a campy edge. They too could be fun for 14-year-olds, but the target audience were adults hip enough to enjoy them through the filter of the old-time comics they enjoyed when they were seven.


I have been a comic book fanatic since 1985... I was 15 in 1985, and there was nothing in that world that I thought was too young or too old for me. It was an ideal time to be a comic book fan of that age, they were just starting to really explore limited series, they were about to hit the Watchmen/Squadron Supreme/Dark Knight Returns series of long form adult storytelling.... There is a reason why the 80's was a speculator boon, and it was because that was a time where everything was merging in the comic book world.

We talk about how baseball/music or other things is the best from when you are 13-15, and I honestly think I hit the best time to be 15.. (a few years later about 1992 or so that changed.... I still like that era of comic books, but there are some serious haters out there, it's tough to find people hating on the mid 80's of comic books... outside of maybe the mid 60's, you don't generally find that level of consensus in the comic book universe---even the early 40's have detractors, simply because of the overt racism and misogyny)
   1823. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 07:02 PM (#5674617)
No, seriously, Jim Shooter?



I love Shooter, a 14 year writing Legion of Superheroes, and making it good for the first time in it's existence is fantastic. Secret Wars was awesome. The Spidey stomp of the X-men, Doctor Doom and Captain American love letters that was part of that was great. The guy is brilliant, but he's also an a-hole of the highest order and that has often (and yes I pronounce the t in often) caused problems wherever he goes.... but there is no denying the success and quality he has produced.
   1824. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 07:10 PM (#5674622)
My wife is the mathematician who reads crapola on her Kindle Unlimited relentlessly. I'm the baker who listens to Milford Graves, so I don't know.


My girlfriend is a police forensic computer tech.... she is addicted to romance novels.. she reads roughly 200 books a year(and that is probably an underestimate to be honest---I know on some Saturdays she ends up reading 3+ books) People unwind the way that they need to unwind, judging them for that seems a bit weird (although I do pick on her.... she once made a joke about me reading a book and how many more pages she was ahead of me on the book she was reading even though we bought them at the same time and started reading at the same time---we were in the bar at the bowling alley....and I wanted to point out the difference between her book and mine... I grabbed her book, went to a random page, started to read that page and ended up with the most graphic sex scene probably in the book.... in comparison I then picked up the book I was reading, which was a Michio Kaku book about Parallel Worlds and read a random page.... From that point on she doesn't pick on my reading speed, some books you can skim a bit, others you really can't. )
   1825. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 07:14 PM (#5674624)
Shooter's a personal favorite. If you want to say that Simonson (a legitimately inner-circle guy) is better, I have no argument. I loved Magnus Robot Fighter, and I loved the feel of Valiant Comics back in that day. When the anti-heroes and the EXTREME Liefield-esque characters took over comics in the late 80s/early 90s, I bailed on Marvel and DC. For a while Shooter was literally my favorite.


Agree here.. Shooter gets flack because of who he is and his personality. He's a grade one dick, no one (even him) is really debating that, but at the same time, he's produced and oversaw some of the best comics put out there over the past 30 years.
   1826. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 07:20 PM (#5674630)
Jim Shooter was somewhat ahead of his time as a writer in the 60s on Legion of Superheroes.


I just think that Shooter is good. I don't think he is great, but he's been good for so long he has to be considered in the comic hall of fame. Add in his editor quality and it's a no brainer, he's Joe Torre.
   1827. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 17, 2018 at 07:25 PM (#5674631)
Or maybe she just accepted being comfortable liking what she liked. There is no reason that one has to like something of one type and that it's anathema to a different type. There is no reason that a person who likes wrestling cannot also like classical opera. Often times it's just what you are exposed to... heck a person who grows up in either of those environments, will probably build innate barriers against even attempting to appreciate the others, and it's their prejudices that are preventing them from enjoying something that they might enjoy. Maybe she just destroyed those barriers built in her and said "Let's give this a try and see if it works for me."


Quite possible... and in fairness, she did dump me - so I'm man enough to admit that there just might be a little churlishness in my analysis :-)

Though, in defense of my suspicion - it's one thing to follow Perez Hilton... it's another thing to insist that I should, too
   1828. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 07:36 PM (#5674638)
Though, in defense of my suspicion - it's one thing to follow Perez Hilton... it's another thing to insist that I should, too


Agree with that. I mean sure my gf had never heard of Doctor Who and I forced here to watch it... ultimately it worked out because she eventually loved it, but still I did kinda insist she had to see it. At least before she dismisses it as a show. If your gf was just insisting you watch it a couple of times before making a decision, then she is in the right here.... if she insisted you watch it a dozen times after you have decided it's not for you, then she is in the wrong.

There are at least three levels of entertainment... love it, will watch it if I'm getting laid, and will not watch it at all and dump the other. (I can imagine at least a dozens of other levels but still this covers the gist of this particular comment)
   1829. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: May 17, 2018 at 08:44 PM (#5674670)
Hey. You there.

You should come to the Lounge.
   1830. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 17, 2018 at 08:55 PM (#5674677)
I can grok personal favorites. Really, for me, Secret Wars was about the most disappointing thing I have ever read.


As a 13-year-old, I thought it was fantastic. Sure, some of it was ridiculous (watching my favourites the X-Men get trashed by both Spider-Man AND the Wasp in separate stories was a bit much), but I enjoyed Doom's role in everything. The "Hulk holds up a mountain" was my favourite image from the series.
   1831. Hysterical & Useless Posted: May 17, 2018 at 08:56 PM (#5674679)
I'm a middle-aged man, but you people make me feel so young and hip!


Hey, Hombre, if you're middle-aged you've lived far more years than I since the SABR convention in NYC. No offense, but I'd say you can still pass as "young-ish."

Sure, if you go with "3 score years and 10" as the lifespan, and divide it (like Gallia) into 3 parts, "middle-aged" is like 24 to 47 or so. But does anybody under 50 really think of themselves as middle-aged?

Oh, and OG, loved your naughty story. No, I'm not going to share any of my own.
   1832. BDC Posted: May 17, 2018 at 09:29 PM (#5674698)
You should come to the Lounge

I would have come to the Lounge long ago if there weren't four posts on every page, each one consisting of "k thx" embedded in a nest of eighteen quoted responses, prefaced by an avatar and ended with an eight-line signature block :-D
   1833. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: May 17, 2018 at 09:33 PM (#5674699)

Kill Six Billion Demons is amazing. You're welcome.


Dammit, I was going to try and get things done tonight.

Panels like this ... I can't even.
   1834. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: May 17, 2018 at 09:34 PM (#5674700)
Hey. You there.

You should come to the Lounge.


I've been to the Thread Ghetto.

Pass.
   1835. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 09:38 PM (#5674705)
As a 13-year-old, I thought it was fantastic. Sure, some of it was ridiculous (watching my favourites the X-Men get trashed by both Spider-Man AND the Wasp in separate stories was a bit much), but I enjoyed Doom's role in everything. The "Hulk holds up a mountain" was my favourite image from the series.


That is the thing about Secret Wars it featured great moments... The X-men looked like chumps for the most part, but Magneto got a good portrayal, Doom kicked ass as only Doom can, and even minor characters like Molecule man and Klaw showed up (Ultron got ##### slapped though)

Spidey, Cap, Colossus, Hulk all had major moments.... It created at least one lasting character(Venom) and another minor character(Titania) and a couple of other characters with some substance that sadly never really did much, Julia Carpenters Spiderwoman, and Volcana... but still any 12 issue series that created Venom(and yes I get that was 'retroactive'...although I'm not really sure that is true.) can't be bad.

I loved that series and I was probably 14 at the time when it came out, and was probably only collecting comic books for about 3 months or so when it came out, so I missed a portion of it.
   1836. Srul Itza Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:16 PM (#5674730)
Ronin never gets enough credit.


I was just thinking that.
   1837. Srul Itza Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:20 PM (#5674732)
When the original series came out, I thought it was the most epic thing in human history. I think I was maybe... 12? at the time?


Eh. I was closer to 30. Still enjoyed comics because it was a good activity while stoned, but the whole Beyonder thing bugged me. It seemed from that point forward they were constantly coming up with more and more GOD-POWERED beings, able to bring people back from the dead, change reality, etc., etc. That sort of thing really gets boring.
   1838. Srul Itza Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:27 PM (#5674734)
I make fun of reality shows all the time...yet every year there seems to be one or two that I end up following for some reason (Last year it was America's got Talent


America's Got Talent, like American Idol, and certain others, are not really "Reality Shows" in the way that Survivor or Big Brother are. They are Talent Shows, a throw back to the Ted Mack Amateur Hour and others, where people with actual abilities performed acted as entertainers. Really, you put a bunch of singers or acrobats or musicians on stage, and aside from the fact that they are being judged, you really just have a variety show or Ed Sullivan.
   1839. Srul Itza Posted: May 17, 2018 at 10:33 PM (#5674738)
I have been a comic book fanatic since 1985.


You go there about 20 years or so after I did.

The things I really liked when I got started, beyond the Superhero stuff, were the Mike Ploog run of Man Thing and the Berni Wrightson run on Swamp Thing.

The Barry Smith run on Conan was also great.

I also liked Jonah Hex, back when he had no compunction about lynching bad guys or kicking them off a cliff. He made Clint Eastwood's character look sweet and gentle by comparison.
   1840. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2018 at 11:03 PM (#5674750)
I'm stunned at the positive reactions to Secret Wars. And then I looked up online, and I'm still stunned. And honestly, while I LOVED the black costume, I have always hated Venom.
   1841. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 11:42 PM (#5674767)
Eh. I was closer to 30. Still enjoyed comics because it was a good activity while stoned, but the whole Beyonder thing bugged me. It seemed from that point forward they were constantly coming up with more and more GOD-POWERED beings, able to bring people back from the dead, change reality, etc., etc. That sort of thing really gets boring.


I liked the beyonder thing.. before they retconned it away... Imagine a multi-universe in which each universe has a sentient being.... and one sentient being in a dead universe discovered a sentient universe by accident and his reactions to that... that to me was pretty cool. I've been an atheist long before I even started reading comics.... but parallel dimensions imply that each dimension has somewhat equal level of power, and if one dimension has planets, galaxies and life, and another dimension has just a sentient being.... that sentient being would in theory have the equivalent power of the other universe and if he can break into that universe and keep his power, he's going to be pretty formidable character...

To me that was awesomeness squared. The Beyonder showing up was in reality the Christian concept of god without the idiotic trappings of pettiness that is typically portrayed by our christian god.
   1842. cardsfanboy Posted: May 17, 2018 at 11:49 PM (#5674772)

I also liked Jonah Hex, back when he had no compunction about lynching bad guys or kicking them off a cliff. He made Clint Eastwood's character look sweet and gentle by comparison.


My brother in law got me into Jonah Hex, Starlord and Warlord from the 70's... Warlord is one of the great series that is underrated and would be a great comic book movie, if not done by a major studio(it has to be a standalone movie) By the time I got into Hex though, it was the sci-fi phase, where he was taken to a post apolyptic world and had to do his thing... still a guy who you have to love his code... he's the Judge Dredd of the Marvel western universe in a way... a bit more forgiving of course, but still stalwart in his beliefs.

edit: note Starlord actually has a pretty interesting comics that isn't remotely related to the character you see in the movies... he was an astronaut that ended up bonding with our sun, who gave him an element gun (meaning it shoots earth/air/fire/wind) and a ship that was in contact with the entity of the sun... every star apparently has an intelligent life form, and he ended up working for ours... and his ship was pretty coool also.
   1843. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: May 18, 2018 at 01:16 AM (#5674796)
Panels like this ... I can't even.


Jebus.

Bugnuts.
   1844. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: May 18, 2018 at 01:54 AM (#5674801)
Hey, Hombre, if you're middle-aged you've lived far more years than I since the SABR convention in NYC. No offense, but I'd say you can still pass as "young-ish."
That is very appreciated, but the fact is that I'm turning 46 in a couple of weeks, and my inability to play centerfield or shortstop during league softball games tells me I'm definitely middle-aged. I think the day I stopped diving hard for grounders to my right was the day I became an old man.
   1845. McCoy Posted: May 18, 2018 at 08:03 AM (#5674820)
I think it was PreservedFish who gushed about Mallmann's cookbook so I picked it up and plan on doing the Peached Pork this week if I can find any decent peaches. Pretty good book though he has a love affair with olives that I do not share so that is a bit problematic for me. The book also wants me to say "damn, I wish I had bought my combi-grill so I could cook over a wood burning flame but I've got a plancha, a searing grate, a smokebox should I need it, and a wood fire pizza oven so outside of the visceral feel and look of cooking over a flameI've got most of the techniques that I would want to use covered.
   1846. McCoy Posted: May 18, 2018 at 08:26 AM (#5674834)
How in the world is the "goth-chick" from NCIS the most beloved female on TV and how in the world is a 49 year old woman playing a "goth-chick"? Did they survey a bunch of senior citizens or something? Who is number 2? Edith Bunker?
   1847. BDC Posted: May 18, 2018 at 08:43 AM (#5674849)
Does anyone have recommendations on things to do in Denver when I’m alive? I will be there next week. The Rockies are in town but opera season is over. Any food halls, post-punk clubs, comic-book stores? :)
   1848. Lassus Posted: May 18, 2018 at 08:48 AM (#5674851)
and how in the world is a 49 year old woman playing a "goth-chick"?

a.) The show started in 2003 when she was 33
b.) This new thing they have called makeup
   1849. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 18, 2018 at 08:48 AM (#5674852)
Does anyone have recommendations on things to do in Denver when I’m alive? I will be there next week. The Rockies are in town but opera season is over. Any food halls, post-punk clubs, comic-book stores? :)


Priciest, but it's the best -- LivWell dispensary :-)
   1850. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 18, 2018 at 08:51 AM (#5674853)
Bugnuts.


And those are just the boring scene setting spreads. Not the big ol' action ones!
   1851. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 18, 2018 at 08:53 AM (#5674856)
Does anyone have recommendations on things to do in Denver when I’m alive?


The Zoo is the second best I've been to, behind the San Diego Zoo and Reserve. The hiking is great too, if you can spare the time to get into the Rockies for an afternoon.
   1852. Lassus Posted: May 18, 2018 at 08:55 AM (#5674859)
Honestly, Boulder's a nice day trip as well.
   1853. McCoy Posted: May 18, 2018 at 08:59 AM (#5674862)

a.) The show started in 2003 when she was 33
b.) This new thing they have called makeup


Makeup ain't that good yet.
   1854. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 18, 2018 at 09:12 AM (#5674868)
Went to Denver for the first time last year for a long weekend. My wife and I are not outdoorsy, so just even getting out to Red Rocks and walking one of the trails was cool. Separately, I knew all the warnings about pacing yourself for the first 24-48 hours to adjust to the altitude, but we were only going to be there a few nights! So, at least watch yourself the first night.

And unless you're a die-hard South Park fan, you can definitely skip Casa Bonita.
   1855. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 18, 2018 at 09:12 AM (#5674869)
Good God, the brewery lineup at an event at Other Half next month.
   1856. McCoy Posted: May 18, 2018 at 09:46 AM (#5674885)
So we think we've finally settled on our honeymoon. Getting marired at Wormsloe Plantation and then heading down to St. Augustine. Then in September we're going to head to Paris with a daytrip to Normandy and then train over to Amsterdam. I would have loved to have done a traveling trip through France but the future McCoyess didn't want to pack and unpack constantly so we compromised on only two hotels over the 8 days.
   1857. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 18, 2018 at 09:50 AM (#5674887)
and how in the world is a 49 year old woman playing a "goth-chick"?


Is goth restricted only to the young? When exactly are people allowed to be goth? Is it different for men and women?

Just curious.
   1858. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 18, 2018 at 09:52 AM (#5674889)
I have not spent much time in Denver, but Colorado Springs was really cool. Sadly the train up Pike's peak is dead, but there was a really cool cave their (Cave of the winds?) and Garden of the Gods was spectacular. The military tours the ex-brother-in-law got for us were pretty cool as well.

But yeah, for Denver I got nothing.
   1859. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: May 18, 2018 at 09:53 AM (#5674890)
When the original series came out, I thought it was the most epic thing in human history. I think I was maybe... 12? at the time?


It's been said that the Golden Age of science fiction is 12. I'm not sure what the equivalent for comics would be ... maybe 10, though for me definitely 8. Back in 2005 on Comic Book Resources' old Classic Comics Forum we all chose our 10 favorite single issues, & my top 5 all came from 1967-1968 -- three DC 80-Page Giants, Sgt. Fury Annual #4 & Not Brand Echh #10.
   1860. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: May 18, 2018 at 09:57 AM (#5674894)

Is goth restricted only to the young? When exactly are people allowed to be goth? Is it different for men and women?

Just curious.


Probably the majority of people in a couple of goth FB groups I'm in got addicted to the lifestyle back when it was a new thing in the early to mid-'80s, which would put them in their 50s, pretty much. (Not a goth & have never been, but have a predisposition toward gloomy music -- Joy Division [speaking of which -- RIP, Ian Curtis, victim of suicide 38 years ago today], Pornography-era Cure, earlyish Banshees, Alien Sex Fiend, Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, Sisters of Mercy, etc. -- & quite like black clothing.)
   1861. Omineca Greg Posted: May 18, 2018 at 10:07 AM (#5674903)
Muslims around the world are ready for Ramadan, including in the North, where fasting from dawn until sundown can be extra difficult as the sunlight stretches close to 20 hours a day.

Ramadan, which marks the ninth month in the Islamic lunar calendar, began this week. For Muslims, it's a month of prayer and intense fasting during daylight hours.

"We do have sun for most of the day," says Kazim Qadir, a member of the Yukon Muslims Society.

He said some people choose to follow Whitehorse's actual sunrise and sunset times, even when that means not eating or drinking for about 18 hours each day. Others choose to follow the times of nearby cities with slightly less hours of daylight, such as Vancouver.

"There is no right or wrong [way]," Qadir said. "I think it's just a personal preference. Whoever can follow the Whitehorse time, they are doing it happily."

He said no matter how many hours are spent fasting, the purpose of Ramadan remains the same.

"You become more thankful and grateful to your God for the blessings that he has given you ... and you also tend to become more generous, you tend to give more to the needy and poor. Because now you are experiencing it yourself."

In Yellowknife, the sun rose at about 4:30 a.m and did not set until about 10:30 p.m. this week.

Most of the people who fasted did so during sunlight in Edmonton, where the sunrise is at about 5:30 a.m. and sunset is at 9:30 p.m., explained Mohamad Ali, a board member at the Islamic Centre of Yellowknife.

He echoed what Qadir said about the spirit of giving and renewal that Muslims feel during Ramadan.

When Ali was a newcomer to Yellowknife, the mosque was one of the first places he went to build his support network, he said. He expects the mosque to continue playing that role for others who need help.

"They expect to get the help there, they may see someone that they know from before," he said. "It's the starting place, the first place people usually seek is to go to the Islamic Centre."

"The mosque, it plays a key role in our life," he said.


link

That's a long time to go without food or drink. Trondheim, Inuvik, that's tough. It would be better to be in Ushuaia.
   1862. The Good Face Posted: May 18, 2018 at 10:16 AM (#5674910)
Bugnuts.

And those are just the boring scene setting spreads. Not the big ol' action ones!


The art is unbelievably effective despite (because?) of Abbadon's shaky grasp of human anatomy. It just... works. And his ability to create memorable character designs is astonishing. Especially since he just lavishly sprinkles the strip with them, using them as background filler. Reminds me a bit of Sergio Aragones' work.
   1863. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 18, 2018 at 10:32 AM (#5674917)
So not sure if this counts as pop culture or not...

But a new claim that DB Cooper has identified.

One problem, though - maybe it's in the book, but TFA doesn't mention it.

I see no mention of the packs of money that were found in the early 80s that the FBI confirmed were part of the ransom. It was a fairly small part of the total haul, but you'd still think there would be some mention of some/all of the ransom being lost.
   1864. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: May 18, 2018 at 10:34 AM (#5674919)
I saw some mid-50s goths at the grocery store last week. It was ... kinda funny.
Denver's fun. Coors (already covered, but) is a nice mall park. Go hike!
   1865. BDC Posted: May 18, 2018 at 10:36 AM (#5674921)
Thanks for the Denver recommendations, all! Though I don't think I'm going to take up the LivWell habit at this age :)

Short hikes are a possibility, as is the Zoo, and I will have 24 hours in Boulder (though some of that in a doctoral exam, the reason for the trip to start with). I'll be staying around for the Reds-Rockies game a week from tonight. Cheers!
   1866. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: May 18, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5674922)
I saw some mid-50s goths at the grocery store last week. It was ... kinda funny.


I think they're pretty silly. Probably not as silly as the people who dress in steampunk outfits, though.

Of course, I'm pretty curmudgeonly with regard to people dressing in what amount to uniforms. To my eyes, cosplay per se is a cry for help.
   1867. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: May 18, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5674923)
I specifically did a short hike the last time I was in Boulder, though I forget the name of the mountain.
   1868. Lassus Posted: May 18, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5674925)
I saw some mid-50s goths at the grocery store last week. It was ... kinda funny.

This is pretty much how I feel about bankers and people who live in McMansions.


I'm pretty curmudgeonly with regard to people dressing in what amount to uniforms

Curmudgeon away, then look around you as far as who's wearing the uniform.


To my eyes, cosplay per se is a cry for help.

That would put them far ahead of the people in ties and khakis as far as an actual capacity to cry for help.


(note: am not now nor was ever a goth.)
   1869. BDC Posted: May 18, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5674929)
some mid-50s goths at the grocery store

I have a sister-in-law nearly 70 who has long dressed like a goth, though her beliefs (and politics) are born-again-Christian ultra-right-wing. Interesting combination; there must be a term for it.
   1870. McCoy Posted: May 18, 2018 at 10:49 AM (#5674933)
Is goth restricted only to the young? When exactly are people allowed to be goth? Is it different for men and women?

12 to 17 year olds after that you've mushroomed into a full blown idiot instead of an idiot in training.
   1871. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: May 18, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5674956)
I'm pretty curmudgeonly with regard to people dressing in what amount to uniforms

Curmudgeon away, then look around you as far as who's wearing the uniform.


I have to deal with issues involving military-type uniforms in photos & videos all the damned time for work. I've pretty much developed an allergy to the very word.
   1872. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 18, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5674960)
I saw some mid-50s goths at the grocery store last week.
Wasn't that on Portlandia?
   1873. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: May 18, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5674972)
Thanks for the Denver recommendations, all! Though I don't think I'm going to take up the LivWell habit at this age :)

Short hikes are a possibility, as is the Zoo, and I will have 24 hours in Boulder (though some of that in a doctoral exam, the reason for the trip to start with). I'll be staying around for the Reds-Rockies game a week from tonight. Cheers!


Snarf's is a great sandwich place if you are looking for lunch in Boulder. Sadly the Boulder Creek Market sandwich shop closed up, that place made my all-time top sandwich.

I specifically did a short hike the last time I was in Boulder, though I forget the name of the mountain.


Probably the Flatirons. It's the iconic rock formation right at the edge of Boulder.
   1874. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: May 18, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5674982)
The Lounge is dying. You’re our only hope.
   1875. Omineca Greg Posted: May 18, 2018 at 11:25 AM (#5674985)
I have a sister-in-law nearly 70 who has long dressed like a goth, though her beliefs (and politics) are born-again-Christian ultra-right-wing. Interesting combination; there must be a term for it.

Oh, Bram Stoker wrote a book about that phenomenon, The Lair of The White Pride Worm.

psst...don't tell gef...but I think a mongoose gets killed in that one...probably for having anarcho-socialist sympathies...so shhhh....
   1876. McCoy Posted: May 18, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5674986)
Speaking of restaurants and closing. In my little city we have a mom and pop (really mom and son) Italian restaurant that has been around for 10 years or so (it was an Italian restaurant before that as well, they bought the previous owners out). For the area it is a rather large restaurant in terms of seating but their operations are so primitive despite having good intentions. They have a somewhat progressive beverage program but you wouldn't you know it by looking at their website, their menu, or talking to their staff. They have an incredibly large wine by the glass program, though the staff seems to know nothing about it and makes no attempt to sell anything on the menu, a cocktail program that includes quite a few trendy ingredients and they have a barrel aged program, along with a somewhat decent local selection of craft beers. But neither their beers nor their cocktails are listed anywhere for anyone to look at nor does any of their staff talk to their guests about the items.

After about our 15th time there I finally struck up a conversation with the mom and the bartender and they were talking about how they did a Cider dinner promo last month and it bombed. I was thinking to myself, "I bet. A) it's cider-who the hell is going to an Italian place to have a cider dinner, B)it's cider-there aren't a whole lot of people that drink it, certainly not enough to scrounge up people for a special dinner, and C)you guys put in virtually no promotional effort to making it happen.

Over the last 6 months or so myself, my GF, and her sister have been seriously toying with the idea of creating a consultancy firm focused on restaurants. There is just a ton of people trying to get into the business and most of them either don't have the eye for design, the ability to run operations, the ability to market, or some combination of all of that. We go into shop after shop and restaurant after restaurant and we see the same mistakes over and over and over.
   1877. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 18, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5675004)
Over the last 6 months or so myself, my GF, and her sister have been seriously toying with the idea of creating a consultancy firm focused on restaurants.
Don't they just beg Gordon Ramsay to come in and film himself screaming at them?
   1878. BDC Posted: May 18, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5675008)
We go into shop after shop and restaurant after restaurant and we see the same mistakes over and over and over

Notoriously starts with websites and Facebook pages that do not tell you where the restaurant is located or when it is open :)
   1879. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 18, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5675010)
Over the last 6 months or so myself, my GF, and her sister have been seriously toying with the idea of creating a consultancy firm focused on restaurants.


Do such things actually exist?

I'd actually think you'd need to focus on chains - just via my brother, I've gotten to know (or at least, interacted with and heard lots of shop talk) a fair number of chefs/restaurant owners... While my professional experience is not exactly wide - I cannot think of any profession where the leadership is less amendable to bringing in and paying a stranger to make suggestions.

I'd be curious about McCoy's opinion - I know my brother's perspective is that he loves talking shop with other chefs and managers (he functions as both), but there's no way he'd ever pay someone to come in and make suggestions about anything from menu to decor to whatever. This isn't to say that he's stubborn or respects no opinions other than his own - quite the opposite, just that the prevailing opinion appears to me that if you need to hire someone to "fix" your restaurant, you should be in a different profession. Ideas on improvements seem to be either organic or via shop talk networking or personal experience going to other places.

EDIT: Ha! Never mind... I see I was responding to something McCoy actually suggested
   1880. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 18, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5675013)
Over the last 6 months or so myself, my GF, and her sister have been seriously toying with the idea of creating a consultancy firm focused on restaurants. There is just a ton of people trying to get into the business and most of them either don't have the eye for design, the ability to run operations, the ability to market, or some combination of all of that. We go into shop after shop and restaurant after restaurant and we see the same mistakes over and over and over.


This sparked a flood of thoughts and ideas, since as a consultant in a field rife with consultants I have strong opinions on the subject. Roughly half were overwhelmingly cynical.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
   1881. BDC Posted: May 18, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5675021)
While my professional experience is not exactly wide - I cannot think of any profession where the leadership is less amendable to bringing in and paying a stranger to make suggestions

This is so different from the public sector (whether education or city government), where nobody makes a move without extensive advice from consultants.

Restaurants are strange, though. The most successful new restaurant in Arlington, TX in recent years is a few blocks from my house. I do not live in an area known for restaurants or anything else. This place is crammed behind a dilapidated taller mecanico, next to a bodega with bars on the windows. You cannot see it from a street. It has bare-walls decor and bad light. The dining room is tiny, the service is terrible; their signature dish is mac-and-cheese with truffle oil, served with strange-flavored craft sodas. They are thriving.

I don't like the mac-and-cheese enough to go there, but if I did I would have to wait in line for ages just to get in the door (and you know how I hate the heat :)
   1882. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:00 PM (#5675026)
Actually, funnier still were the punks I saw (in their late 50s), one in a kilt, wearing Misfits gear and whatnot on the same grocery trip. (This was in a particularly dorky part of a dorky town (Cary NC) so it really stood out.)
That said, power to 'em!
--
Boulder: I think it was the Mt Sanitas Trail.
   1883. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:10 PM (#5675035)
Restaurants are strange, though. The most successful new restaurant in Arlington, TX in recent years is a few blocks from my house. I do not live in an area known for restaurants or anything else. This place is crammed behind a dilapidated taller mecanico, next to a bodega with bars on the windows. You cannot see it from a street. It has bare-walls decor and bad light. The dining room is tiny, the service is terrible; their signature dish is mac-and-cheese with truffle oil, served with strange-flavored craft sodas. They are thriving.
If you happen to hit the sweet spot as far as hipster cachet, you can get away with just about anything (and in fact, all the supposed negatives you mention above only increase the hipster bait). It's a lot more difficult for places that need to appeal to a different or broader demographic.
   1884. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:15 PM (#5675046)
The OTB in downtown Indy does not suck. Respectable to good food, $3 anytap beer good selections. Clean, nice separation between bar sit down dining area from hardcore gaming room and the windows. Preakness as usual w not a lot to offer. Gonna try a trifecta key.
   1885. McCoy Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:15 PM (#5675048)
Do such things actually exist?

Oh yes. There is actually a bunch of them. What happens most of the time is somebody with money decides they want to open up a place and they end up asking the manager of their favorite place or bartender or whatever to help set it up and run it. I have several buddies in DC that that is basically all they do. They hop from one business deal to the next and when they are in between they'll bartend or run a comedy club program out of a hotel or something like that.

I'd actually think you'd need to focus on chains - just via my brother, I've gotten to know (or at least, interacted with and heard lots of shop talk) a fair number of chefs/restaurant owners... While my professional experience is not exactly wide - I cannot think of any profession where the leadership is less amendable to bringing in and paying a stranger to make suggestions.

Yeah, you don't go in when the company is up and running, though I have seen consultants go for that sector, you get to them when they are in the incubation and build out phase. In terms of established product a big market is hotels. If you have in you can get a lot of work out of a hotel company. They employ tons of consultants. Another area that is developing what with all the changing local laws is with beverage companies. Team up with them as they outsource their placement program to a third party vendor like a consultancy group which can sign with 8 or 10 complimentary beverage companies and get their product placed in the area or region.

I'd be curious about McCoy's opinion - I know my brother's perspective is that he loves talking shop with other chefs and managers (he functions as both), but there's no way he'd ever pay someone to come in and make suggestions about anything from menu to decor to whatever. This isn't to say that he's stubborn or respects no opinions other than his own - quite the opposite, just that the prevailing opinion appears to me that if you need to hire someone to "fix" your restaurant, you should be in a different profession. Ideas on improvements seem to be either organic or via shop talk networking or personal experience going to other places.

Sure and there are quite a few people who own a store/restaurant that know very little about running one. They have the dream but do not know how to create a path to achieve it.
   1886. Omineca Greg Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5675052)
I'd actually think you'd need to focus on chains...


Chains already have a whole infrastructure of people who are being paid solely for their expertise, if they're anything like in-store bakeries. I just can't imagine any of them hiring consultants. Corporate baking types have healthy egos and by definition have the skill set to impress the non-baking corporates, hiring a consultant would be a sign of weakness.

It's funny, there are trade shows where businesses trying to sell their products have all sorts of presentations and pre-made applications. Really in R&D, for everything...ingredients, packaging, display units...all you need to do is put out the word that you're interested in spending $$$, and the work's already done for you; as long as you have good instincts you should have it made. Still, being good at it is tough, succeeding at that job takes the ability to bullshit your way out of everything that doesn't work out properly. "Regional can never fail, it can only be failed", I've said that hundreds of times.
   1887. CrosbyBird Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:17 PM (#5675053)
My last gf loved reality TV. I cannot fathom how anyone with a functioning brain (which she definitely had, & has) can abide that garbage for a single second. So it goes.

The Amazing Race is basically a travel show with a competitive element. Survivor has interesting weird physical competitions and the backdrop is some gorgeous tropical island. Top Chef has all sorts of interesting foodie details to geek out about. But my girlfriend watches Big Brother, which I really can't see the appeal of. The more the show is about the personalities, the less I like it.

The genre that I am most shocked that I used to like is the game show. They all seem unwatchable today.
   1888. McCoy Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:17 PM (#5675054)
This sparked a flood of thoughts and ideas, since as a consultant in a field rife with consultants I have strong opinions on the subject. Roughly half were overwhelmingly cynical.

Yeah, don't get me wrong most consultants are con artists who do little more than tell a person who wants to lose weight that they should cut calories and work out more. Thanks I knew that. Then on the flipside you're dealing with business owners which means you're either dealing with huge egos or outstanding ignorance or sometimes both.
   1889. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:20 PM (#5675062)
This is so different from the public sector (whether education or city government), where nobody makes a move without extensive advice from consultants.


Private sector isn't so different.

My bet would be that this is a function bureaucracy perhaps?

I suppose it depends on the restaurant - I do have another aunt who has essentially become what you might call a COO for a restaurant group (not a large group, but four different places - none of them related).... I could see her consortium potentially doing something like this for a specific one of the places (maybe).

OTOH, my brother's place is just a single establishment. He's got an equity stake - and the owner is very hands off. So long as it performs, I don't think the majority/silent owner would care/leave the decision to my brother... though, if it reached a point where finances/etc might call for some help, I suspect he'd either divest or just close (the place is in Park Slope, so I'm sure he'd have no trouble just selling the property if it came to that).

In effect, org size would seem to play a role... As with any org - this also helps filter ideas up, too. In my brother's case - he's all chef, but over the course of time, he's hired good bar staff, good wait staff, etc - and their suggestions don't have a problem filtering up. In my aunt's case - she started in the industry on the wait staff side, but spent most of time on the bar end. She tends to just find good chefs and follow their advice on menu composition, etc.
   1890. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:24 PM (#5675074)
Sure and there are quite a few people who own a store/restaurant that know very little about running one. They have the dream but do not know how to create a path to achieve it.


Yeah - good point.

I didn't consider that angle - there are no shortage of people with money who think owning a restaurant would be great, but jump in sans experience but with plenty of dollars (that rapidly dwindle) and especially if they expect to be actively involved, rather than focus on hiring and let folks with experience drive the show, I could definitely see where there would be plenty of folks who got in over their heads.
   1891. McCoy Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:26 PM (#5675078)

Chains already have a whole infrastructure of people who are being paid solely for their expertise, if they're anything like in-store bakeries. I just can't imagine any of them hiring consultants. Corporate baking types have healthy egos and by definition have the skill set to impress the non-baking corporates, hiring a consultant would be a sign of weakness.


Actually they hire quite a few consultants. It is cheaper and they can hire new ones to stay up on the latest trends while hiring "experts" to stay on in house can lead to expensive employees with stale ideas. For instance my GF's coffee company hired as a consultant some "famous" barista that was apparently on or might have even won some Top Chef like TV show for baristas with the goal of using her social media pages to make them more "hip" along with training their baristas on artful baristaing I guess.
   1892. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5675084)
After about our 15th time there I finally struck up a conversation with the mom and the bartender and they were talking about how they did a Cider dinner promo last month and it bombed. I was thinking to myself, "I bet. A) it's cider-who the hell is going to an Italian place to have a cider dinner, B)it's cider-there aren't a whole lot of people that drink it, certainly not enough to scrounge up people for a special dinner, and C)you guys put in virtually no promotional effort to making it happen.


That's ... yeah, weird. As a former cider aficionado (especially as an alternative to beer), I'd maybe expect something like that at an English-pub-style operation, but that's it.
   1893. GordonShumway Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5675088)
OTOH, my brother's place is just a single establishment. He's got an equity stake - and the owner is very hands off. So long as it performs, I don't think the majority/silent owner would care/leave the decision to my brother... though, if it reached a point where finances/etc might call for some help, I suspect he'd either divest or just close (the place is in Park Slope, so I'm sure he'd have no trouble just selling the property if it came to that).


If you don't mind sharing, which restaurant in Park Slope is it? I just moved out of Park Slope last month, and went to most every restaurant there in my time living there.
   1894. Omineca Greg Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:35 PM (#5675090)
Actually they hire quite a few consultants. It is cheaper and they can hire new ones to stay up on the latest trends while hiring "experts" to stay on in house can lead to expensive employees with stale ideas.

That's interesting to me. Even at large, publicly held places? My experience as a bakery manager is always one of being a smaller part of much larger retail operations, Bakeries are only 1% of our company's sales.

And yes, sometimes the "expensive employees with stale ideas" get purged. It's always ugly. Maybe they're using consultants and keep it a secret, certainly they're using some from the sales divisions of say, mills or refrigeration design companies, so maybe they're using independent consultants too. I just get the feeling that they're not, because I've never heard consultants scapegoated for a bad decision...
   1895. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:37 PM (#5675099)
If you don't mind sharing, which restaurant in Park Slope is it? I just moved out of Park Slope last month, and went to most every restaurant there in my time living there.


Not at all -

The place is Benchmark, just off 5th Ave on 2nd st.
   1896. McCoy Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:43 PM (#5675108)
Another anecdote that I found funny. About a year ago or so I was living in Acworth, GA which is a podunk little rural suburban town outside of Atlanta. None of the quaintest of small town South but all of the dregs of being one. So on "main street" we get news that a new restaurant/bar is going to open up. We're all excited about this. They decide to call the restaurant Brix as in the sugar ratio of wine. We're thinking okay, its going to be a wine bar with some small plates. Not bad. We go to the place on opening weekend and it has like 4 wine choices and all of them on the extreme low end of name recognition for quality. The bartender is behind the bar playing around with cocktails and all of them and the cocktails on the menu as well are basically ripped straight out of the playbook for college bars. Brightly colored cocktails with high sugar content. Behind the bar is like a liquor company's dream come true for product placement in that it is all the secondary junk that distributors throw in for free like Captain Morgan cannonball or like the 5 billion vodka flavors that Pinnacle pumps out. Their food menu consists of like 4 or 5 junk food style appetizers and they have no cooking ability anyway as the only heatsources they have for cooking is a crockpot (which they use for nacho cheese) and a microwave.

So my GF and I are having a beer and a glass of wine and we meet the owners who are excited and bubbly and are of course wanting to talk about the new place. My first question to them is why they decided to call the place Brix. They asked me if I knew what Brix meant and I said yeah, that's why I'm asking (my notorious humor which people either love or hate showing through). I forget the whole explanation but it has something to do with being a pun because the brickwalls of the building. I go on to ask them how they came about opening a place and they tell me the husband had retired, always wanted to open up a place, and they had a friend who was an exec at one of our local liquor distributors so they went to him for advice. I laughed because their choices made a lot of sense once I knew that because all of the crVp liquor behind the bar was from that distribution company.

Place is still there and I just scanned the menu. Looks like they improved somewhat but the cocktails are still all pure sugar.
   1897. McCoy Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5675109)

That's ... yeah, weird. As a former cider aficionado (especially as an alternative to beer), I'd maybe expect something like that at an English-pub-style operation, but that's it.


I give them props for trying but they absolutely suck at getting the word out. Their execution could be better as well since their food always takes a long time to come out.
   1898. GordonShumway Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5675110)
Not at all -

The place is Benchmark, just off 5th Ave on 2nd st.


Heh, small world. I lived on 5th Avenue a couple blocks up from there, and went there a few times. Their food was excellent.
   1899. McCoy Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5675115)
That's interesting to me. Even at large, publicly held places? My experience as a bakery manager is always one of being a smaller part of much larger retail operations, Bakeries are only 1% of our company's sales.

And yes, sometimes the "expensive employees with stale ideas" get purged. It's always ugly. Maybe they're using consultants and keep it a secret, certainly they're using some from the sales divisions of say, mills or refrigeration design companies, so maybe they're using independent consultants too. I just get the feeling that they're not, because I've never heard consultants scapegoated for a bad decision...


Don't know your company or your setup. Some consultants are hired to work the field and train the staff, some are hired to stay at corporate offices and work with the bigwigs on new ideas or how to roll out new programs or to write new SOP or to get them in contact with new contacts/markets. Some are hired to work packaging or product innovation or planograms or what have you. They come in all shapes and sizes.
   1900. McCoy Posted: May 18, 2018 at 12:56 PM (#5675116)
Not at all -

The place is Benchmark, just off 5th Ave on 2nd st.


It always amuses me to see the difference in ratings between Yelp and Tripadvisor.
Page 19 of 39 pages ‹ First  < 17 18 19 20 21 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Tuque
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogCatch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (October 2018)
(237 - 8:03pm, Oct 15)
Last: Tin Angel

NewsblogLEAGUE CHAMPION SERIES OMNICHATTER! for the 2018 Playoffs!
(774 - 8:02pm, Oct 15)
Last: Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant

NewsblogOTP 2018 October 15: The shift in focus from sport to politics
(89 - 8:00pm, Oct 15)
Last: Greg K

NewsblogUmpire Joe West Hit By Throw From Red Sox Catcher Christian Vazquez
(29 - 7:53pm, Oct 15)
Last: Bug Selig

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-15-2018
(15 - 7:53pm, Oct 15)
Last: Leroy Kincaid

Gonfalon CubsNow what?
(93 - 7:18pm, Oct 15)
Last: Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant

NewsblogRed Sox exorcise their postseason demons to beat Astros and even ALCS
(2 - 7:10pm, Oct 15)
Last: BDC

NewsblogOT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)
(467 - 6:52pm, Oct 15)
Last: Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean

NewsblogAll jokes aside, Bob Uecker seriously loves baseball
(43 - 6:32pm, Oct 15)
Last: spycake

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (2018-19 season begins!)
(984 - 5:43pm, Oct 15)
Last: AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther

NewsblogESPN: Olney: Pine tar in the postseason could put MLB in a sticky situation
(11 - 5:34pm, Oct 15)
Last: Tin Angel

NewsblogProjecting the composition of A's bullpen in 2019
(3 - 3:54pm, Oct 15)
Last: Khrushin it bro

NewsblogOTP 2018 October 8: Hugh Jackman's 'The Front Runner' Confronts The Political Conundrum Of Our Time
(1559 - 3:33pm, Oct 15)
Last: Zonk just has affection for alumni

Hall of Merit2019 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(165 - 3:27pm, Oct 15)
Last: Bleed the Freak

NewsblogOT - 2018 NFL thread
(55 - 3:03pm, Oct 15)
Last: McCoy

Page rendered in 0.7933 seconds
46 querie(s) executed