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Saturday, April 21, 2018

OT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (April - June 2018)

The following is previously unseen rehearsal footage of Prince & The Revolution from the summer of 1984.

It was in this very room at Flying Cloud Drive Warehouse in Eden Prairie, Minnesota that Prince created and committed to tape one of his most beloved and iconic compositions, which six years later would become a worldwide hit for Sinead O’Connor.

Prince’s original studio version of ‘Nothing Compares 2 U’ is presented here for the first time.

Trial to see if there’s sufficient support to make this a thing.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: April 21, 2018 at 02:32 PM | 3812 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movies, music, off-topic, television, whatever else belongs under the rubric of 'popular culture'

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   2401. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5678883)
And to be clear, I love the idea of Prince, I love that other people love Prince, and I'm certain that the failure is with me, not with him. But yeah, if I had the choice of listening to Prince or listening to nothing, I'd choose nothing.

I think a lot of people who say they love Prince really mean they love the early hits. I kind of fit into that camp. I can't say I enjoy much of what he did after Around the World in a Day. Even that album had some songs I just don't enjoy at all. To be fair, Prince lost me with the New Power Generation stuff so if he was killing it after that I would have missed it.
   2402. PreservedFish Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:30 AM (#5678890)
I feel like Prince is really let down by the dated production. Sign o' the Times, for instance, which is by all accounts an Exile or London Callingstyle wide-ranging masterpiece ... those weak muted drums, that narrow, tinny range, it should sound deep and lush and it really doesn't.

But I think he's great. Even some of his biggest hits are really brave and interesting. "Kiss," I mean, that's a hell of a song and it doesn't sound like anything else.
   2403. Baldrick Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:35 AM (#5678897)
I think a lot of people who say they love Prince really mean they love the early hits. I kind of fit into that camp. I can't say I enjoy much of what he did after Around the World in a Day. Even that album had some songs I just don't enjoy at all. To be fair, Prince lost me with the New Power Generation stuff so if he was killing it after that I would have missed it.

I'm not saying I don't like the average Prince song. I'm saying that I don't like the hits. I mean, there are probably a dozen that I find listenable, but I really really tried when he died to go back and work my way through all the stuff everyone was identifying as their favorites. I hated all of it. Again, I'm sure that this is something wrong with me. But I genuinely dislike pretty much the whole catalog.
   2404. Lassus Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:35 AM (#5678898)
I think a lot of people who say they love Prince really mean they love the early hits. I kind of fit into that camp.

I agree with what jmuprh said, I'm as big a Prince fan that exists, but that much material ends up with a lot of crap and he - like almost everyone - had a decline phase.

Post- Around the World in a Day Prince I consider worth listening to:

1990 - Graffiti Bridge (greatest album soundtrack to worst movie in history, really incredible songs - except title track, which is awful.)
1995 - Gold Experience (Seriously awesome, holds up even to the early material. Top 5, IMO.)
1996 - Chaos and Disorder (b-sides)
1996 - Emancipation (TRIPLE(!) album - very melodic, slow-jam oriented, above-average)
2004 - Musicology (good hooks, not great, but still good)

I have a soft spot in my heart for Crystal Ball, 1998, which I had to order BY LANDLINE TELEPHONE, and had like three discs and one extra and then his ballet Kama Sutra. It's probably not great but I recall really liking it before it ended up lost to history in one of my nomadic periods.

I heard good things about 3121 (2006) but listened to it once and promptly forgot about it.

And the Purple Rain soundtrack AND Sign O' the Times should have been on my top ten list.

EDIT: Wait, Sign o' The Times is also post-Around the World in a Day! Shame on you, Shooty.
   2405. stig-tossled,hornswoggled gef the talking mongoose Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5678901)
To be fair he has a lot, lot, lot of bad material.


I pretty much stopped paying attention to him after Sign o' the Times, though I continued for awhile to buy the albums & singles (with non-LP B-sides) sort of out of habit. Before that, though, he generated one hell of an array of great songs.
   2406. I am going to be Frank Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5678905)
I was at that show! Halloween 1997, on the PopMart tour. IIRC Smashmouth was the opener, which was of course horrible. But I had a different experience of that show than you did - I was on the floor by the B stage and got to strum Bono's guitar at the end of Last Night on Earth. I enjoyed it.


Smashmouth definitely opened. The acoustics were also bad where we sitting. I'm sure in a smaller venue or better seats they would have been fine. It's why I won't go to any stadium shows any more (not like I go to many concerts anyway).

Also I saw Rage Against the Machine in Cobo, Alanis at the Palace at Auburn Hills and Def Leppard at the Michigan State Fair. I had no idea who Rage was - so that was an experience. Alanis was really good (I really wanted to see Garbage who was opening for her). Def Leppard was pretty sad. These were all while I was at Michigan for undergrad. Somewhat amazingly I never went to any concerts on campus while I was there.
   2407. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5678913)
I saw U2 at the Palace on the Elevation tour, and Bono kept referring to the show being in Ohio. Apparently Springsteen did the same thing at the same venue a few years after that, although I wasn't at that show. Must be something about the Palace.
   2408. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5678915)
Did you know this, comic nerds?
TIL that the Don Rosa, author of Scrooge McDuck comics, is wildly popular in Europe and widely considered a genius


Didn't know it, and never heard of him, but I'm glad I clicked on the link because it led to this sub-link featuring "The Seduction of the Innocent" guy's testimony before the congressional committee that wound up putting the kibosh on the heart of the comic book industry. Frederic Wertham was to comic books in the 50's what the National (Catholic) League of Decency was to movies in the 30's: An unforgiving nanny looming over them.
   2409. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5678917)
EDIT: Wait, Sign o' The Times is also post-Around the World in a Day! Shame on you, Shooty.

Sorry, it was a long time ago! I should have wiki'ed the Prince chronology pre-post.
   2410. Lassus Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5678921)
Sorry, it was a long time ago!

Yeah, I only realized that after looking at the discography myself.
   2411. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 12:12 PM (#5678928)
I just like to listen to "Gett Off" and hump everything in the room. I assume everyone does this.
   2412. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: May 24, 2018 at 12:18 PM (#5678934)
I assume everyone does this.

Naw, I have cats. And a cactus.
   2413. K-BAR, J-BAR (trhn) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5678954)
Now that I'm older, Silver Jews speak to me more than Pavement. Pavement has a way with melody, but it's nothing compared with Berman's way with words. I wonder if that's how all primates evolve?
   2414. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 12:57 PM (#5678958)
The African American Museum in DC is most impressive. The conference I was at hosted an event there last night. That had to cost a fortune. Yes, there was a blurb about Cosby's problems, crimes in his few exhibits.

The Emmett Till exhibit is very sobering. Beautiful building.
   2415. PreservedFish Posted: May 24, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5678959)
Not everyone. I'm not a lyrics guy, and while I'm cool with the Silver Jews, I'm generally not into "poet with a guitar" acts. And I'm still smitten with Pavement's sound.
   2416. Yonder Alonso in misguided trousers (cardinal) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 01:13 PM (#5678968)
I'm a big fan of both, but between the two I'd only put an album by one of them into a top ten favorites-- Silver Jews' American Water. A couple of Pavement albums come close, but don't quite make it.


Though if I'm being honest I'd put Malkmus/Jicks' Face The Truth in a list before any Pavement proper.
   2417. Greg K Posted: May 24, 2018 at 03:06 PM (#5679079)
One of the better moments of serendipity came when I convinced my friend to watch Who Loves the Sun. It had been one of my favourite movies for a long time and I finally convinced him to sit down and watch it. About half way through the movie my friend says, "you know, there's this band I keep wanting to recommend to you, The Silver Jews. The soundtrack for this movie is a bunch of their songs".

EDIT: I watched the movie about 10 times before I knew who the Silver Jews were. But I do recall thinking, whatever this music is, it's perfect.
   2418. Greg K Posted: May 24, 2018 at 03:11 PM (#5679085)
I like how we can run through several great quotes from a single Simpsons episode and leave out my favourite:

Oh, gosh. You know I'm not much on speeches, but it's so gratifying to leave you wallowing in the mess you've made.
You're screwed.
Thank you.
   2419. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: May 24, 2018 at 03:11 PM (#5679086)
I've actually moved toward melody/sound versus words as I've aged. YMMV, obviously.
   2420. Greg K Posted: May 24, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5679089)
Who Loves the Sun also has one of my favourite lines, delivered with a great deal of sympathy by one of the 50-something supporting characters, bemused by the ridiculousness of the 30-something main characters.

"Most people have been through difficult times. And yet they don't go running around like...hysterial jackasses".

Which, to refer to an earlier post, is the same spirit in which I read movies like Reality Bites.
   2421. jmurph Posted: May 24, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5679090)
I've actually moved toward melody/sound versus words as I've aged. YMMV, obviously.

Definitely. I think it's because our capacity to feel is deadened by time/children (I kid, partially).
   2422. Hysterical & Useless Posted: May 24, 2018 at 09:23 PM (#5679272)
I think it's because our capacity to feel is deadened by time/children (I kid, partially).


When I was at my "most into music" phase of life (late teens-early 20s) the musicians I knew were much more into sound rather than words, so I was too. Nowadays, I tend to be more taken by things I can sing along to.

I don't think time deadens the capacity to feel; we do seem to get less volatile as we age, though. Gotta conserve your energy.

Not gonna argue with you about children; don't agree, but certainly hope that was the largest part of your "I kid."
   2423. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: May 24, 2018 at 09:35 PM (#5679280)
Ruth Wilson has the sexiest overbite I've ever seen. Totally fell for her as the psycho in Luther. Sigh...

Obligatory

Speaking of which, I don't think my interest level in a show has ever cratered so hard. The writing was always atrocious, consisting entirely of tortured-detective cliche and exploitation porn -- and not even B-grade exploitation porn like "Criminal Minds"; I'm talking pure trash like "Stalker" -- so the whole thing always hung on the Luther-Alice dynamic, and her diminishing role made it more and more obvious how little else there was of any worth. Don't even get me started on the utter betrayal that was the fourth season. Particularly with a development like that taking place *between* seasons. And #### everybody involved with the decision to roll it back for a fifth after such a disaster. Especially if they Patrick-Duffy-in-the-shower that ####.
   2424. PreservedFish Posted: May 24, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5679281)
For me, great lyrics lose their novelty and interest very quickly. But great sounds do not.
   2425. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:15 AM (#5679451)
I also "came to music" pretty late (as I've prattled about in a long post here a few years ago) - buying my first album whilst in college and largely figuring out what I liked and didn't by becoming a DJ for the college station who knew nothing about music and borrowing bunches of albums from their library (which I'd return next shift after I'd dubbed them onto tapes) ... so I was first drawn to the world I'd lived in, one of words, and branched out to how they worked with sound.
   2426. jmurph Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:24 AM (#5679458)
Not gonna argue with you about children; don't agree, but certainly hope that was the largest part of your "I kid."

Yeah I was just kidding. The time thing, though, I think has merit- or maybe it's just the time in your life. It's hard to really feel a breakup song that mattered to me when I was 22, for instance, when I'm happily married with children and in a totally different place in life. I still feel the nostalgia, or whatever, for that time, or a song might take me back to that time, but I think maybe the connection to the lyrics isn't the same.
   2427. Omineca Greg Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:45 AM (#5679476)
Youth is the period in which a man can be hopeless. The end of every episode is the end of the world. But the power of hoping through everything, the knowledge that the soul survives its adventures, that great inspiration comes to the middle-aged.

Gilbert K. Chesterton

I'm on the Olympic Peninsula. It's nice. You guys should really do something about the meth problem though...people, it's bad.

Haven't seen any disembodied feet yet.

Easier to buy pot than booze.

EDIT: Good booze. Cheap booze is easy.
   2428. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:46 AM (#5679479)
Yeah I was just kidding. The time thing, though, I think has merit- or maybe it's just the time in your life. It's hard to really feel a breakup song that mattered to me when I was 22, for instance, when I'm happily married with children and in a totally different place in life. I still feel the nostalgia, or whatever, for that time, or a song might take me back to that time, but I think maybe the connection to the lyrics isn't the same.


Agree 100%. The place where it manifests the most for me personally is the "tone" of the music. I just don't groove on angry and super intense music like I used to. I had a phase where I was into more metal, rap, and hip hop, but the last few years so much of it is so very angry/intense that it just rubs me the wrong way and I just can't listen to much of it.

Somewhat similarly I used to love "Cats in the Cradle" when I was young, but now as a father of two young men I really don't like it (take from that what you will).
   2429. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:52 AM (#5679481)
I had a phase where I was into more metal, rap, and hip hop, but the last few years so much of it is so very angry/intense ...

Could you elaborate? I don't necessarily see it as having gotten angrier, though I guess it depends on what you listen to.
   2430. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:53 AM (#5679483)
I assume everyone does this.

Naw, I have cats. And a cactus.


It's putting Part B after the innocuous Part A that makes this Primey-worthy.

Actually my daughter and I talk quite a bit about what makes things funny, why some jokes work and other similar jokes lack the same impact. I remember having these same sort of discussions with my grandfather, who was a well-known entertainer in 1940s NYC, and I've spent way too much time thinking about that sort of analysis over my lifetime. My daughter is writing her own jokes now (she is 8) and about half totally miss the mark but the other half have a kernel of real comedic inspiration in them. It's fun to watch and be part of this aspect of her emotional and social development, something most people don't really discuss when parenting is a topic of conversation.
   2431. McCoy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:56 AM (#5679484)
I know I watched at least 2 seasons of Luther. Pretty sure I liked the first season but like others I thought it went off the rails. If I remember correctly Luther starts up a relationship with Alice and that was one step too far for me. Don't know if I saw the 4th season.


On a side note it is really weird to call a series of episodes from Britain a season. 4 episodes should not be considered a season. Call it a chapter or something.
   2432. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:08 AM (#5679492)
It's fun to watch and be part of this aspect of her emotional and social development, something most people don't really discuss when parenting is a topic of conversation.
I don't want to turn my children into off-brand clones of me (one's enough; thanks) but talking about comedy and how jokes work with my kids has been interesting and unexpected (these aren't conversations I had ever considered having). My nine-year old doesn't really understand, say, multiplication but yet there we were talking about establishing patterns and disrupting them, recognizing and tweaking power dynamics, timing... weird! And cool.
   2433. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:09 AM (#5679493)
Could you elaborate? I don't necessarily see it as having gotten angrier, though I guess it depends on what you listen to.


I don't think it has gotten angrier, I have become less tolerant of the anger and intensity. Part of it is the sound of it and the rest the lyrics. And maybe it was just the parts I was listening to. When I was younger and angrier (well you know what I mean) the intense sounds spoke to me in a way they just don't any more. I don't hate all of it, I just find myself listening to less and less of it and buying less of it.
   2434. Omineca Greg Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5679522)
...I just find myself listening to less and less of it and buying less of it.

I think as people age, they tend to get less grandiose and over-reaching. Improvising musicians speak about being more comfortable in their own skin and not trying to wedge every idea they've ever had into any one particular solo. There will always be another opportunity later.

In terms of lyrics, there is a two-fold effect. Like the improviser, there's less of an onus to try to get your songs to do everything all at once, older writers have a tendency to become miniaturists. And then they're getting older themselves, so the topics and interests can change to a smaller, more modest scale. I've been married for 29 years, songs that deal with my romantic intrigues and fascinations are going to be necessarily different than ones for younger people, people who haven't spent a lifetime with a partner. I'm generalising here. Blues and country have always naturally been able to skew to an older demographic, rock and pop didn't do it as much, but as now there's a whole set of musician lyricists who are older themselves, it's much more common than say in the 60s.

One is reminded of the way Tom Paxton introduces his song, "Marvelous Toy"..."Well, when you're a young songwriter, who I at one time was, you try to get all your ideas into a single song, even if the song can't really bear them. So...you end up listening, and making allowances for it, 'Oh, he was young, young people are like that.' Please, bear that in mind. But this is how I saw the whole cosmic ball of wax back in the Summer of 1960."

When I was just a wee little lad,
Full of health and joy,
My father homeward came one night
And gave to me a toy.
A wonder to behold it was
With many colors bright
And the moment I laid eyes on it,
It became my heart's delight.

Refrain:
It went "Zip" when it moved, and "Bop" when it stopped,
And "Whirrr" when it stood still.
I never knew just what it was and I guess I never will.

The first time that I picked it up
I had a big surprise
Cause right on the bottom were two big buttons
That looked like big green eyes
I first pushed one and then the other,
Then I twisted it's lid
And when I set it down again, here is what it did:

(Refrain)

It first marched left, and then marched right
And then marched under a chair
And when I looked where it had gone
It wasn't even there
I started to cry, but my daddy laughed
'Cause he knew that I would find,
When I turned around my marvelous toy
Would be chugging from behind.

(Refrain)

The years have gone by too quickly it seems,
I have my own little boy
And yesterday I gave to him
My marvelous little toy:
His eyes nearly popped right out of his head
And he gave a squeal of glee!
Neither one of us knows just what it is
But he loves it just like me!

It still goes... (refrain)

Paxton
   2435. Der-K: downgraded to lurker Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:13 AM (#5679530)
I think there's a difference between how musicians change and how listeners change over time, as well. Neither process is necessarily to the benefit of that party (newer musicians tend to have more ideas and energy; newer listeners tend to have more passion and less preconceptions) or detriment - they just are.
   2436. jmurph Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5679533)
On the lyrics thing, this just came up for me the other day when I listened to something I hadn't listened to in years (Dismemberment Plan's "The City"), and I was thinking about how much I used to FEEL that song. Listening to it now was also something of an emotional experience, but rather than feeling the content of the lyrics, it's taking me to the time/place in my life when that song mattered to me a great deal. Which is similar but also different.
   2437. McCoy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5679537)
Oh, the responsibilities of adulthood and home ownership. Supposed to go to Marcel tonight for a nice little Porterhouse for two with a $12 corkage fee for wine but nooooo. Have to stay home because the irrigation repair man is coming to fix the sprinkler system that was broken by the termite guy that installed the traps improperly. Then on top of that I've discovered that carpenter bees have gotten busy boring into my new fence. At least three holes found in the fence already! On top of all that I've got a drainage issue because the houses are so close together that a)the sun never hits the area around the air conditioner and b)my neighbor's yards drain onto mine and then we all drain right on down to the next neighbor. The developer is dithering on a solution even though they have fixed the AC issue in the two homes that were completed after mine. Can I go back to renting?
   2438. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5679557)
Supposed to go to Marcel tonight for a nice little Porterhouse for two with a $12 corkage fee for wine but nooooo. Have to stay home because the irrigation repair man is coming to fix the sprinkler system that was broken by the termite guy that installed the traps improperly.
Seems like maybe fixing the sprinkler system could wait a couple days...unless your house is currently on fire?
   2439. McCoy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:41 AM (#5679560)
Seems like maybe fixing the sprinkler system could wait a couple days...unless your house is currently on fire?

All the irrigation companies appear to be swamped right now and this fix isn't a big moneymaker for them so we're not a big priority for them. Don't do it now it could be a month or more until I can get someone out to look at the pipe.
   2440. K-BAR, J-BAR (trhn) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5679564)
I was depressed most of my life. And those feelings were all I could really relate to in music. Now I'm a musical omnivore. And I can feel all this beautiful music. Albeit tinged with melancholy because there's so much less time to enjoy it, having gone all my life without it. (And possibly incapable of feeling it.)

   2441. McCoy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5679569)
wrong thread
   2442. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:10 PM (#5679585)
I was depressed most of my life. And those feelings were all I could really relate to in music. Now I'm a musical omnivore. And I can feel all this beautiful music. Albeit tinged with melancholy because there's so much less time to enjoy it, having gone all my life without it. (And possibly incapable of feeling it.)
Wow...a lot of emotional punch in those few sentences. As a fellow music lover (and human), I'm really happy for you that you are (it would seem) in a good place now and are able to experience the full range of what music can be. There's still a lot of time - this is just the beginning!
   2443. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5679592)
I was depressed most of my life. And those feelings were all I could really relate to in music. Now I'm a musical omnivore. And I can feel all this beautiful music. Albeit tinged with melancholy because there's so much less time to enjoy it, having gone all my life without it. (And possibly incapable of feeling it.)

I can't remember feeling depressed for more than a fleeting day or two, and I think the fact that I can conjure up many hundreds of beautiful songs and melodies** at the drop of a hat is one of the major reasons I've been able to avoid having those low moments stick around.

** Old School R&B, jazz, standards, gospel, country/bluegrass, classical are all melodic and soulful; many other musical genres, not so much
   2444. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:47 PM (#5679615)
I can't remember feeling depressed for more than a fleeting day or two


Nothing like fleecing a mark at pool to lift your mood, eh?
   2445. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5679641)
I haven't actually met Andy, but something tells me he's identifiable as a shark before he takes his first shot. I don't think he would have the duplicity skills.
   2446. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 25, 2018 at 03:24 PM (#5679675)
I haven't actually met Andy, but something tells me he's identifiable as a shark before he takes his first shot. I don't think he would have the duplicity skills.

Not to mention I ain't made a ball since Harvey Weinstein was a virgin.
   2447. Hysterical & Useless Posted: May 25, 2018 at 04:31 PM (#5679711)
I don't remember how much of "Luther" I actually watched. Idris Elba is great, the reason I started watching, but RW was the reason to continue. I do remember thinking "Did I miss some episodes?" at a couple of points, because circumstances didn't seem to follow from what I'd last seen. I guess it wasn't just me.
   2448. McCoy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:16 PM (#5679760)
Ended up making it to Marcel after all. Super expensive but very well executed. Only flaw was the 30oz porterhouse had well done filet and a medium to medium well sure strip. But it tasted excellent. Can't even imagine how expensive it would have been if I didn't bring my own bottle of wine.
   2449. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:49 PM (#5679772)
Only flaw was the 30oz porterhouse had well done filet and a medium to medium well sure strip
That seems like a pretty significant flaw - I assume you asked for med-rare. Glad it tasted good though.
   2450. cardsfanboy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:56 PM (#5679775)
I assume you asked for med-rare.


Are steaks allowed to be cook any other way?
   2451. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:02 PM (#5679780)
Are steaks allowed to be cook any other way?
Does carpaccio count?
   2452. McCoy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:11 PM (#5679788)
Or tartare. I ordered it medium because of my GF. If I didn't have a gift certificate I probably would have sent it back but I really didn't want to wait 20 more minutes for another steak and it did taste really good.
   2453. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5679797)
I ordered it medium because of my GF.
I hope she appreciates what a selfless soul you are.
   2454. cardsfanboy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:22 PM (#5679806)
I probably would have sent it back but I really didn't want to wait 20 more minutes for another steak and it did taste really good.


I have zero (real) fears, and I have zero problems being an a-hole or anything like that, but I just don't really get the concept of sending things back. You eat what is put in front of you, you honestly critique it, and accept that there are a lot of variables involved in food preparation that could have caused issues with the final product, but it just feels to me, that sending something back is being mean to the waiter and/or cook when it was just an honest mistake (and I know McCoy you are an expert in the industry, but it is something that I find very uncomfortable doing... I have actually said to the waiter/host/manager that the food didn't meet the standards for whatever reason---without seeking them out---that the food was incorrect, but the act of sending it back seems to be a line I just am not comfortable crossing) It might have something to do with being raised in a relatively poor household I imagine, you eat it even if it's not perfect, because your options are eat or don't eat. And yes I have 'criticized' my mom's cooking (bless her soul, she had 6 kids all with wildly different tastes, and worked her ass off to do her best)
   2455. cardsfanboy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:26 PM (#5679809)
I ordered it medium because of my GF.


Funny thing is my girlfriend thinks she likes medium, but she actually prefers medium rare... in some ways she prefers medium, medium rare, while I prefer rare, medium rare. She doesn't want it as bloody as mine, and I don't want truly rare(but I'm not having a problem if it happens) but she wants a decent amount of pink...so every time we go out, she asks me what she wants, and it took me a few years to figure this out, but she wants a medium rare put on the grill for another 30-60 seconds or so.

And one of my favorite stories about meat, is my brother with his daughter (13 year old, "vegan/budhist" decided she doesn't even like meat... and my brother offered to cook her a steak, she couldn't look at it, and eat it, and he cooked a nice quality steak, medium rare, and she ate the entire thing and loved it.... but in her mom's family, they burnt their meat, so she had never had a real steak, instead had this medium/well done crap that tastes like charcoal--the mother also had her first steak cooked this way and loved it also.)
   2456. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:32 PM (#5679818)
I'm pretty much the same way - not a sender-backer at all. It's basically that when I'm at a restaurant, I'm there to have a good time and see what they have to offer, not to inspect and critique every last detail of every dish. I've only sent things back a few times that I can remember in my life, and those involved things like chicken not cooked all the way through, to the point where it was unsafe to eat.

You're right, there are a million variables, so in general you shouldn't make a big deal out of small issues. Now, where do you draw the line between that and something that (a) really should have been done right and (b) is serious enough to reduce your enjoyment of the meal? I think it's totally reasonable to say that a significantly overcooked steak that was the focal point of the meal would be over the line. If it still tasted good, though, I personally wouldn't send it back.

   2457. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:38 PM (#5679822)
Funny thing is my girlfriend thinks she likes medium, but she actually prefers medium rare
My wife likes med-rare for steaks, but eating meat with her is a frustrating experience. She basically won't eat any piece that is within about an inch of any fat, gristle or bone. For chicken or pork, she inspects each bite thoroughly to make sure it's about 20 degrees over the necessary done temp. Anything less (over)cooked than that is "too rare." It's wasteful as hell, or at least it would be if I didn't eat all her rejects. Still, it's the principle. The funny thing is, she's an excellent cook. I've noticed that a lot of women have similar hangups, but they usually don't cook themselves.
   2458. McCoy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:55 PM (#5679841)
I've probably sent two or three things back in my lifetime. You really have to mess up for me to do it or my date has to really not like it for me to speak up.

I don't ask for special preparations with my food. I take my food the way the chef intends it to be and judge them on that. I'm not going to ask for special dishes.
   2459. cardsfanboy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:57 PM (#5679843)
Now, where do you draw the line between that and something that (a) really should have been done right and (b) is serious enough to reduce your enjoyment of the meal? I think it's totally reasonable to say that a significantly overcooked steak that was the focal point of the meal would be over the line. If it still tasted good, though, I personally wouldn't send it back.


Agree. I think I have ran into that problem maybe twice in my life, and full credit both times that I can remember, the restaurant took care of it professionally. One thing I have learned over the past decade or so, is be willing to rate every place you go, and if they offer you a survey, do it. I work retail and every store I've worked with has surveys and they are taken very seriously, and the people who are unsatisfied fill surveys 10-1 in comparison to the people who are satisfied, so when things work, let them know, but at the same time, when they don't work, also let them know. Don't just be a complainer---heck when you fill surveys for every interaction you have, you actually realize how often business's meet acceptable standards.

The complaints work even more, when you realize that you are making a complaint from a point of view of how often things go well. You don't feel bad when your complaints result in compensation (which is never the point---but at the same time, it's cool that they are willing to take care of you....note----I have never in my life been comped a free meal, desert or even a soda because of a complaint---and I wouldn't take it...because I realize it's coming out of more than likely an innocent person in the process)
   2460. McCoy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:58 PM (#5679845)
My GF hates fat and gristle so she hates Ribeyes and even to some extent ny strips. Well, hate probably seems extreme. She cuts off all the fat on her steaks and she is very paranoid about undercooked chicken.
   2461. cardsfanboy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:03 PM (#5679848)
My wife likes med-rare for steaks, but eating meat with her is a frustrating experience. She basically won't eat any piece that is within about an inch of any fat, gristle or bone. For chicken or pork, she inspects each bite thoroughly to make sure it's about 20 degrees over the necessary done temp. Anything less (over)cooked than that is "too rare." It's wasteful as hell, or at least it would be if I didn't eat all her rejects. Still, it's the principle. The funny thing is, she's an excellent cook. I've noticed that a lot of women have similar hangups, but they usually don't cook themselves.


My gf is not an excellent cook, she's a decent cook, but there is a reason I do most of the cooking, even when I'm just cooking based upon her thorough instructions. (I love having fun cooking, she on the other hand want her food to taste exactly like it was when she was a kid, which is more or less unseasoned simple foods, which is nice enough, but I want to experiment with flavors and spices but am not allowed to on her standard foods, weekend foods I have free range though) She has some similar hangups. I make her two steak salads a week and the amount of edible food that ends up in the dogs treat dish(which also frequently ends up in my stomach) because of her inability to accept any fat or gristle makes it hard to turn these 12 oz steaks into two 4oz salads.
   2462. PreservedFish Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:17 PM (#5679859)
I am also a tolerant diner, maybe because I've been on the other side so much. But if an error is so bad to actually ruin the experience, I'll speak up. Fried chicken that is actually cold in the middle - fully cooked, but cold, like 40F - I sent that back. A "rare" hamburger, at a Michelin-starred restaurant known for its hamburgers, that arrived well-done. I sent that back. In such cases you're actually doing the restaurant a disservice if you just keep your mouth shut, and they should be more than happy to rectify the situation.

One example of the above that went wrong. I was eating at this Sardinian restaurant in the year that it opened, with other chef friends, and we ordered a fresh porcini risotto or pasta or fregula. It came totally unseasoned, not a speck of salt in it, and consequently it tasted like wet cardboard or unsweetened oatmeal or something not good. We assumed that the cook had made a critical error and that the management would want to know. In fact, the Sardinian owner came out and explained to us that he NEVER used any seasoning with fresh porcini. We nodded along and then asked the waitress for salt.
   2463. K-BAR, J-BAR (trhn) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:17 PM (#5679861)
I'm really happy for you that you are (it would seem) in a good place now and are able to experience the full range of what music can be. There's still a lot of time - this is just the beginning!


Thanks for the kind words. Eventually a bunch of small changes added up to a completely different perspective.

I don't know that I've ever sent food back. I worked in $8 an hour food service jobs (Ruby Tuesday, Quiznos, Hardee's, Steak 'n' Shake, Panera, Papa John's) from ages 15-27, so I tend to empathize with the cooks and servers. But the main reason is that nothing ever hit the sweet spot of being both awful and expensive enough for me to care. Most inedibly crummy food has been at places too cheap for me to care. And I'm not too bothered by a little variation in execution at finer dining places.

I did send an 'old fashioned' back once because it was just bourbon and soda water. In that case, I figure the difference was in kind rather than degree.


   2464. cardsfanboy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:18 PM (#5679865)
I have no idea what the hell is porcini.

Edit: looking it up, it's mushrooms.... there is a reason I don't know it. (although I have at least made mushrooms often enough for my gf... but again it's simple recipe, melt butter in a pan, throw sliced mushrooms in the pan and allow them to cook)

the running joke in my family(which I started) is that there are five food groups.... moo, oink, cluck, corn and potatoes.. I'm happy with that.
   2465. Howie Menckel Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:24 PM (#5679866)
The African American Museum in DC is most impressive. The conference I was at hosted an event there last night.

my brother-in-law is a construction worker, and he worked at that project for about 2 years.
looks like the redneckiest redneck that ever rednecked, and his family even moreso. but not only is he a great guy, so are the others if you can get past the... hard coating on the outside.

anyway, my B-I-L says one day, "so we get celebrities coming by during construction now and then, and they get a tour of what we're working on. that lady Oprah - the one who had the talk show - got a tour. guys, I gotta tell, she is so nice!"

I think he had never seen the show - but then, why would he have seen it?
   2466. cardsfanboy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:36 PM (#5679873)
I worked in $8 an hour food service jobs


That to me is the issue. No matter what the reputation, no matter what the argument is made, ultimately, your first face of contact is the $8 an hour guy, not the guy making the decisions, and the $8 an hour guy is getting the shaft whenever a complaint happens. I never really worked the food industry (3 or so months when I was 17 before going off to college) but everyone I knows did spend years... I mean literally every one of my 5 siblings and my mom worked at Denny's(and even an adopted sibling) for years and other places(3 siblings and mom worked Red Lobster) etc. I cannot imagine that people who know people who work the industry, are comfortable being what can be perceived as "dicks" at a restaurant.


And to me, it's those people, who fully understand the industry or at least have a decent grasp of the concept, that when they complain, they aren't minor complaints, they are real issues. I don't have a problem with that, I've worked retail, and yet I've even complained to other retailers about crap that they screwed up, even knowing that the people involved in the issue aren't really culpable... When I shop and see a "sale sign" I absolutely look at the ending date on the sale sign, and if it is expired, I'll pull it down or let someone on the staff know that it is expired, I will not take the product up to the register and expect to get the sale price, even though I know retail policy is to give the sale price if the sign is up.
   2467. PreservedFish Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:38 PM (#5679874)
Porcini is a particularly flavorful mushroom. You can buy dried porcini anywhere, and they do add nice flavor, but the fresh ones are special, delicate, and expensive. Most of the time they're shaved fairly thin and applied more or less raw. The best porcini dish I ever had was when I was apprenticing at Chez Panisse, and they cut them thick and just grilled them. A luxury I'd never had before. Bursting with flavor. At Chez Panisse they have two services (like a 5:30pm seating and an 8pm seating) and so during the gap between services the cooks retire to a private room and enjoy the gourmet dinner together. It is hilariously genteel.
   2468. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 26, 2018 at 12:04 AM (#5679897)
I'd always been equally drawn to music and words in what I listened to, but when I began to listening to J-rock a decade ago, I couldn't understand the words, because I don't speak Japanese. To my huge surprise, I found that it didn't matter at all as far as me liking the music. I could look up translations if I wanted to on the Internet, and for some bands who wrote legitimately poetic lyrics, that was a plus. But there are many bands I like where the majority of their songs, I have no idea what the lyrics are about. But that doesn't impact how I react to the music, and often the tone of voice and delivery of the singer can give clues to the overall mood of the song.
   2469. McCoy Posted: May 26, 2018 at 07:28 AM (#5679921)
I remember back in the day being able to get whole fresh porcinis from dartagnan. I used to do a risotto with it and scallops along with a brown butter sauce.
   2470. PreservedFish Posted: May 26, 2018 at 08:02 AM (#5679928)
The number of song lyrics that I connect with on an emotional level is terribly small. The talk above about how songs of romance or teenage angst are less poignant now than they used to be - that doesn't really make sense to me. I never nursed a broken heart by listening to breakup songs.
   2471. Omineca Greg Posted: May 26, 2018 at 08:48 AM (#5679934)
The talk above about how songs of romance or teenage angst are less poignant now than they used to be - that doesn't really make sense to me. I never nursed a broken heart by listening to breakup songs.

You were never angsty and listened to angsty music?

Carole King sort of speaks to this (in song), the emotional attachment to lyrics. She does it from the perspective of a writer, but I think it makes sense for a listener as well.

Looking for a way to say
The things I think about day by day
Listen to their meaning if you can
I may step outside myself
And speak as if I were someone else
That's one way I know you'll understand

In fantasy I can be black or white
A woman or a man

King


Lyrics are like dreams, or other fiction, they serve to take you out of the present reality and into another place.

I don't think I've ever listened to music while dealing with emotional stress (besides teenage angst which is coming from a different place emotionally) hoping to connect with something. I mean, I have done, but only in a removed, rarefied sort of way. When I hate my job and listen to American Industrial Ballads there's a kind of emotional connection there, but it's distanced. It's more like this...

With the money from her accident
She bought herself a mobile home
So at least she could get some enjoyment
Out of being alone
No one could say that she was left up on the shelf
It's you and me against the world kid she mumbled to herself

Chorus:
When the world falls apart some things stay in place
Levi stubbs' tears run down his face

She ran away from home with her mother's best coat
She was married before she was even entitled to vote
And her husband was one of those blokes
The sort that only laughs at his own jokes
The sort that war takes away
And when there wasn't a war he left her anyway

Norman whitfield and barrett strong
Are here to make everything right that's wrong
Holland and holland and lamont dozier too
Are here to make it all okay with you

One dark night he came home from the sea
And put a hole in her body where no hole should be
It hurt her more to see him walking out the door
And though they stitched her back together they left her heart in pieces on the
Floor

When the world falls apart some things stay in place
She takes off the four tops tape and puts it back in it's case
When the world falls apart some things stay in place
Levi stubbs' tears...

Bragg


In a world of emotional transience and impermanence, it's comforting to have something that's constant.
   2472. PreservedFish Posted: May 26, 2018 at 09:46 AM (#5679939)
You were never angsty and listened to angsty music?


Narrative angst never did it for me - but I did listen to music that had angsty guitars and snarly sounds. I have a particular absurd memory of an angsty moment listening to Sonic Youth's "Cross the Breeze:"

Let's go walking on the water
Come all the way please
I want to know
Should I stay or go?

No need to be scared
Let's jump into the day
I want to know
I think I oughta go


It's an angsty song but the lyrics are mostly inscrutable, I think. I'm not sure if I ever really even listened to them.

(The memory is absurd because I was listening on my discman while on an amazing European vacation with my parents. I think we were on a boat cruising to the isle of Capri, which was the emperors' luxury vacation home.)

As a young teen I was listening to REM and the Beatles when many of my peers were listening to Nirvana and Alice in Chains and Green Day, the angsty music of the day. Primarily maybe I just wasn't a very angsty kid.
   2473. Omineca Greg Posted: May 26, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5679946)
I was an angsty teen in the Golden Age Of Teenage Angst: we had The Smiths and The Violent Femmes.

Speaking of whom...my son was going to do a version of Gimmie The Car for [Insert High School Name Here]'s Got Talent...he had it all worked out Ian Whitcomb style, complete with ukulele, bowler, and affected accent (I know Ian went to Trinity College, but he still gets the Oxford Comma, sue me!).

Which meant it was funny as all get out...but so inappropriate. I had no inkling that he'd hatched such a self-destructive plot, and disaster was only averted when one of his friends talked him out of it.

I bought that kid a steak dinner.

OK, no more procrastination, time to clean up the guest house and leave the Olympic Peninsula behind. I can see Canada from my house!
   2474. Lassus Posted: May 26, 2018 at 05:47 PM (#5680108)
Porcini is a particularly flavorful mushroom. You can buy dried porcini anywhere, and they do add nice flavor, but the fresh ones are special, delicate, and expensive. Most of the time they're shaved fairly thin and applied more or less raw. The best porcini dish I ever had was when I was apprenticing at Chez Panisse, and they cut them thick and just grilled them.

I mean this 1000% positively, and I love that I just wandered into an episode of Top Chef.


I have sent things back, but so rarely I really don't actually remember for what. Oh, I think undercooked pork once, maybe.
   2475. BDC Posted: May 26, 2018 at 06:03 PM (#5680114)
I sent back a skunked beer in Canada a couple of years ago. The waiter was uncharacteristically unapologetic, but complied.
   2476. Hysterical & Useless Posted: May 26, 2018 at 06:57 PM (#5680130)
My wife sent some rice back for me once, at an Indian restaurant in our neighborhood; I was too embarrassed to do it myself. Restaurant subsequently went out of business.

Coincidence? Karma?
   2477. stig-tossled,hornswoggled gef the talking mongoose Posted: May 26, 2018 at 07:20 PM (#5680140)
My wife sent some rice back for me once, at an Indian restaurant in our neighborhood;


Of all things ... Was it undercooked? Overcooked? Cold?
   2478. Hysterical & Useless Posted: May 26, 2018 at 07:29 PM (#5680143)
Was it undercooked? Overcooked? Cold?


I think it was all kind of stuck together. Sort of a heaping pile of Elmer's glue. But not as tasty.
   2479. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 08:35 PM (#5680170)
Dear Jebus, there's a neighborhood party going on right now and there's a live band playing and they just played a cover version of "Cocaine", which they renamed ... "Rogaine".

Punch me.
   2480. Lassus Posted: May 26, 2018 at 08:41 PM (#5680176)
I'd be saying that if they were playing the actual song.
   2481. ckash Posted: May 26, 2018 at 08:59 PM (#5680180)
Saw "Solo" today. Enjoyed it - it's a heist film with a touch of noir thrown in. Donald Glover channelled Billie Dee Williams to a T, Erin Aldenreich thankfully did not try to be Harrison Ford and came out the better for it. For a completely unnecessary film it was fun. I'll probably see it again just to see if I missed any easter eggs.
   2482. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 09:01 PM (#5680181)
I'd be saying that if they were playing the actual song.


JJ Cale.

Step off.
   2483. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 09:03 PM (#5680182)
Somehow, I don't think the 8 year olds at this party are going to appreciate this cover of "Brown Sugar" ...
   2484. BDC Posted: May 26, 2018 at 09:18 PM (#5680183)
If you want to it to sprout, you've gotta try it out, rogaine
If you want to get down, get down on your crown, rogaine

If your mullet is gone, and you want to rock on, rogaine
Don't forget this fact, you can get your locks back, rogaine

Purchase the trial size, and you won't believe your eyes, rogaine
Better than toupee glue, and the side-effects are few, rogaine

She don't lie, she don't lie, she don't lie,
Rogaine
   2485. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 09:23 PM (#5680185)
I don't live in Texas, BDC, but my parents do, I'll slip them a Jackson for your future air conditioned comfort ...
   2486. K-BAR, J-BAR (trhn) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 09:38 PM (#5680194)
I'd be saying that if they were playing the actual song.


Despite the anachronism, I'm convinced that Cocaine Blues is about having to listen to Cocaine. Cocaine's for horse, it's not for men.
   2487. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 09:46 PM (#5680200)
I'm with those above on not sending food back unless there's something massively wrong. A blue steak for instance, that happened to me about 9 years ago on a 'medium' order. I would send back duck or lamb if it came to the table without any pink.

I've worked my wife from well done to medium on all beef cuts, but she's still wants pork taken to 160, which I think is total bs. There's a place in my neck of the woods that will not question you when you ask for a little pink in the pork chop, as I do, and others around here in pork country.
   2488. cardsfanboy Posted: May 26, 2018 at 09:50 PM (#5680203)
Saw "Solo" today. Enjoyed it - it's a heist film with a touch of noir thrown in. Donald Glover channelled Billie Dee Williams to a T, Erin Aldenreich thankfully did not try to be Harrison Ford and came out the better for it. For a completely unnecessary film it was fun. I'll probably see it again just to see if I missed any easter eggs.


It's getting a lot of hate, and I'm not seeing why, it seems exactly as you described it, and Donald Glover was supposedly the standout guy for that movie, to the point that they are seriously considering a Lando movie. (and I'm pretty sure that the guy who played Solo has a three movie contract, so they have every intention of making this a trilogy, probably more in line with the Indiana Jones/James Bond movies, where the stories are not really connected)
   2489. McCoy Posted: May 27, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5680298)
At the matinee shoeing of avengers. Only one here. Show starts in 4 minutes. After that off to home Depot to get some brush killer and then back to the theater to watch solo. Afterwards another batch of pit beef.


Edit: a family just joined me. Those bastards.
   2490. McCoy Posted: May 27, 2018 at 03:00 PM (#5680360)
Avengers want too bad. About 30 minutes too long but otherwise fine. I think it helped for me in that I saw Thor and black panther within the last month and had rewatched spider Man recently as well.
   2491. cardsfanboy Posted: May 27, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5680371)
wrong thread.
   2492. McCoy Posted: May 27, 2018 at 06:42 PM (#5680421)
Finished seeing Solo and I would say it is the weakest entry in the SW saga since Disney took over. The script is a mess. It's not good when a supporting actor with some screen time steals the spotlight from the lead who is supposed to be playing a charismatic character. Donald Glover and L3 are very good in this one. Chewbacca actually moves around and does things and Woody is good enough in it but Solo and Emilia are dreadful as the two main leads. As others here have mentioned and has been mentioned all over the internet this movie is basically just one big easter egg. Unfortunately that doesn't make for a very compelling story. What wasn't an easter egg seemed like a setup for a future movie. Instead of focusing on making a good movie it seems they focused on explaining the origin of every little reference uttered about Han in the original trilogy or were setting up another SW spinoff.
   2493. Howie Menckel Posted: May 27, 2018 at 07:02 PM (#5680426)
Happy 103rd birthday to author Herman Wouk, whose Pulitzer Prize for fiction for The Caine Mutiny came in Joe DiMaggio's final season with the Yankees

the best part is he bought a house in Palm Springs last week - the only place around where he might be the youngest player at the bridge table
   2494. Rennie's Tenet Posted: May 27, 2018 at 10:46 PM (#5680549)
If I'm reading Wikipedia correctly, it seems that June 26-29 the champions of Gibraltar, San Marino, Andorra, and Kosovo will be involved in a Champions League play-in at Gibraltar. It seems like that could be fun if they do it right. Is it something that passes unnoticed, or do they have some fun with it?
   2495. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 27, 2018 at 11:40 PM (#5680608)
Happy 103rd birthday to author Herman Wouk, whose Pulitzer Prize for fiction for The Caine Mutiny came in Joe DiMaggio's final season with the Yankees

Weirdest celebrity encounter I ever had: In the early 80's, when I was working in another book shop in Georgetown, an old guy** comes in, looks around for a minute without saying anything. He then just walks over, shakes my hand, and says "I'm Herman Wouk, the bestselling author". And then just walks away. Never ran into him either before or since.

** I'm somewhat impressed that he's made it to 103, since even 35 years ago he looked a lot older than his late 60's. More like early 80's.
   2496. Lassus Posted: May 27, 2018 at 11:55 PM (#5680615)
Regarding actors, I'm pretty sure Emilia Clarke is probably not very good. There are good and bad actors in that show, and I don't think a lot of the leads are very good so far in what I've seen in other shows.

Regarding appearances elsewhere, going in order of the Wiki list:

Clarke hasn't been impressive.
Harington's actually been kind of awful.
Turner has been bad as Jean Grey IMO.
Dinklage is an actor.
Headey absolutely is good.
Maisie Williams I haven't seen much, I get the feeling she might end up good but unsure.
Coster-Waldau is B-level, which I mean as a compliment.
Gwendolyn Christie seems like a good actress, Top of the Lake, stage, etc.
Alfie Allen - meh
Iain Glen is a pro.
Natalie Dormer - I am too distracted by how pretty she is to figure out her acting skill, as horribly sexist as that is.
Nathalee Emmanuel is probably a good actress not getting enough good roles.
Aiden Gillan is an A-level talent.

OK, I'm too tired to do any more.


   2497. PreservedFish Posted: May 28, 2018 at 12:19 AM (#5680620)
Aiden Gillan is an A-level talent.


Least favorite character from my two favorite shows, pretty much.
   2498. Rennie's Tenet Posted: May 28, 2018 at 06:44 AM (#5680630)
#2494 should have been in the soccer thread. Apologies.
   2499. Greg K Posted: May 28, 2018 at 08:33 AM (#5680635)
I just saw Richard Madden in that new Gillian Jacobs Netflix movie.

He didn't do anything to convince me he's a great actor, but they really didn't give him (or anyone else) much to work with. It was nearly as painful as that Diet Coke campaign Ms. Jacobs is involved in.
   2500. McCoy Posted: May 28, 2018 at 08:38 AM (#5680637)
Dinklage and Headey are without a doubt the try best actors from GoT
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