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Saturday, April 21, 2018

OT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (April - June 2018)

The following is previously unseen rehearsal footage of Prince & The Revolution from the summer of 1984.

It was in this very room at Flying Cloud Drive Warehouse in Eden Prairie, Minnesota that Prince created and committed to tape one of his most beloved and iconic compositions, which six years later would become a worldwide hit for Sinead O’Connor.

Prince’s original studio version of ‘Nothing Compares 2 U’ is presented here for the first time.

Trial to see if there’s sufficient support to make this a thing.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: April 21, 2018 at 02:32 PM | 3812 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movies, music, off-topic, television, whatever else belongs under the rubric of 'popular culture'

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   3501. McCoy Posted: June 14, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5692008)
flip
   3502. BDC Posted: June 14, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5692009)
It was said of Jo Stafford that she couldn't sing offkey if she tried – which I think she took as a challenge when she created the character of Darlene Edwards, who couldn't sing in key at all.
   3503. Morty Causa Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5692011)
3497

Wonderful comment. Captures my experience with the book, too.
   3504. PreservedFish Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5692014)
My favorite course/professor* mixed the two quite seamlessly - it was a small class on Essay traditions (supposedly on the scholarship track), but he actually mixed in both the scholarship angle and the creative writing angle... to the point that every paper - you had the option: An analysis of the particular trope/style/etc - or - you could try your hand at mimicry. I chose the latter for every paper - and enjoyed the exercise immensely. He was not back the following the year.


I had a high school teacher that offered this several times, and despite not being a creative writing type in the slightest, I too chose the mimicry. Writing a modern Canterbury Tale in rhyming couplets? Why not?
   3505. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5692017)
I did a very few profs (as in, two) who crossed the boundaries, but they were both of the non-tenured, nomadic lecturer variety that didn't even outlast my term in school.
In fairness, wasn't your term in school about a decade?
   3506. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:10 AM (#5692026)
I had a high school teacher that offered this several times, and despite not being a creative writing type in the slightest, I too chose the mimicry. Writing a modern Canterbury Tale in rhyming couplets? Why not?


I think it's a fabulous way to learn - though I can absolutely see how it may not be for everyone...

I suppose there's certainly a difference between understanding and mimicry, but then - I think there's also a difference between recognition and proper labeling and the actual synthesis/construction.

At least to me, I just always felt I grasped better by trying my actual hand at doing it.

Bones vs Flesh maybe?
   3507. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:11 AM (#5692029)
In fairness, wasn't your term in school about a decade?


Ha - close - 7 years. Would that I could have made it last that long - but alas...
   3508. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5692037)
Didn't expect to see a discussion of Jo Stafford here, of all people. I got into listening to a lot of those singers from my dad, but most of them I get confused with each other. Jo Stafford, Jeri Southern, June Christy.

I like the more idiosyncratic Chris Connor and Anita O'Day.
   3509. Omineca Greg Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5692043)
Didn't expect to see a discussion of Jo Stafford here, of all people.

This is actually the third time she's come up on this thread.
   3510. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5692055)
See, on your more cutting-edge social media forms the "pop culture" discussion doesn't turn into people analyzing Escoffier, or how literature courses are taught, or everyone naming their favorite Doris Day songs.
   3511. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:30 AM (#5692059)
See, on your more cutting-edge social media forms the "pop culture" discussion doesn't turn into people analyzing Escoffier, or how literature courses are taught, or everyone naming their favorite Doris Day songs.
Old White Guys FTW!
   3512. Omineca Greg Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5692068)
Old White Guys FTW!

Hush!
   3513. PreservedFish Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5692069)
Jo Stafford can't rock like this! RATTLESNAKE RATTLESNAKE RATTLESNAKE RATTLESNAKE

I'm seeing these guys tonight in Boston.
   3514. BDC Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:44 AM (#5692079)
Yes, Fish, thanks for your thoughts on your experience of reading Ulysses. I haven't read Ulysses in quite a while now – 25 years, maybe? (I am teaching a course on Ireland next semester and will read "The Dead" with the group.)

I remember Ulysses as a book that made more sense after I'd spent a lot of time in Dublin, and gotten to know a lot of Irish people. I first read Ulysses over 40 years ago, and started going to Ireland shortly thereafter, and Dublin in the 1980s was much closer to the Dublin of 1904 than, say, New York or London had become over that stretch of time. I'd say (just elaborating one of your themes) that Ulysses makes sense on one level if you have experience of Ireland and on others if you don't. I guess that's true of all realistic fiction, but probably more so of Joyce than most. For instance, I don't think knowing Paris helps greatly with reading Victor Hugo, or Proust. Hugo's world is melodramatic, and Proust's is mostly indoors, in a social milieu nobody can penetrate or recreate.

I was very interested in your remark about annotation. I was fascinated with the annotated Lolita by Alfred Appel, but only after I'd read Lolita 3 or 4 times. Then I was ready for the completist experience of dwelling on every little detail. And Appel, not to speak ill because he certainly knew his stuff, is a bit insufferable. He knew Nabokov, was his student and his disciple, and he doesn't let the reader forget it. Fortunately Lolita too is a book that works pretty well just as story and prose style – but I will take to heart your comment that annotation can make the reader feel inferior. I can be something of a walking set of annotations at times, but I should probably go easy on it in some circs.
   3515. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5692086)
Nabokov was friends with local literary icon/asshole Edmund Wilson. I have a book of their correspondence I've yet to delve into.

I've also never read Lolita, as it has always seemed completely tiresome. YUGE fan of Pale Fire, Invitation to a Beheading, Ada, etc.
   3516. PreservedFish Posted: June 14, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5692097)
I remember Ulysses as a book that made more sense after I'd spent a lot of time in Dublin


I've done the Ulysses tourism thing in Dublin, and was amused to see that almost all of the known, oft-visited sites (the Martello Tower, the pharmacy, the bar where he orders gorgonzola and burgundy) appear in the first half dozen chapters of the book.

the annotated Lolita by Alfred Appel


That was the one. I don't remember him being insufferable, but there was just way too much stuff for a virgin reader of the book. It's nice that Nabokov leaves a million little jokes and references for the supremely erudite reader, but most of that stuff is ultimately unimportant, and being interrupted constantly damages the reading experience. And this is one of the most lovely, lyrical writers in the language.

I also remember that there are a ton of tiny obscure references to Clare Quilty along the way, things that a new reader couldn't be expected to pick up on. The experience is kind of like watching Fight Club or Psycho for the first time and having a friend repeatedly pause the film and ruin the experience by explaining how the ending will change your interpretation of what's happening.
   3517. PreservedFish Posted: June 14, 2018 at 12:05 PM (#5692098)
YUGE fan of Pale Fire


Yes, and my complaint is ironic given that Nabakov actually chose the text+endnotes structure for one of his greatest works.
   3518. BDC Posted: June 14, 2018 at 12:07 PM (#5692102)
never read Lolita, as it has always seemed completely tiresome. YUGE fan of Pale Fire, Invitation to a Beheading, Ada, etc.

I think of myself as a Nabokov fan, but every Nabokov fan seems to have a different favorite reading list. I read Pale Fire once and liked it, but didn't finish it another couple of times. Ada, I couldn't get far at all. I really, really love Lolita, Pnin, and Glory, and also Nabokov's memoir Speak, Memory. I also like The Real Life of Sebastian Knight and The Eye.

I have another friend who is almost fanatical about Nabokov, and I do not think he has even read Lolita. His favorite is Bend Sinister, which I couldn't really relate to. Odd.
   3519. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 14, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5692116)
I just can't read literary novels. It's hard enough to read any novels that aren't about detectives. I make up for it with good taste in other areas.

I've been trying to get into classical music too. In a similar phenomenon, I find myself only listening to pieces that have titles rather than simply "Symphony No. 4".
   3520. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2018 at 12:29 PM (#5692118)
I've been trying to get into classical music too. In a similar phenomenon, I find myself only listening to pieces that have titles rather than simply "Symphony No. 4".

Let me know if you want tips, based what you like so far, what you're interested in, recommendations, etc.
   3521. PreservedFish Posted: June 14, 2018 at 12:34 PM (#5692122)
Classical music is the Great Unknown for me, but I am so profoundly ignorant of it that it scares me to even dip my toe in.
   3522. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2018 at 01:45 PM (#5692185)
But it's like foodie food, or any food. Who cares if you don't know how to properly brine a steak or brown butter or prepare conch? What have you liked, or think you would like?
   3523. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5692187)
Also, I'm not sure where else to put it, but MAN first-round scores at Shinnecock for the US Open are totally brutal.
   3524. PreservedFish Posted: June 14, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5692195)
It's more like I can't tell the difference between steak and conch.
   3525. Yonder Alonso in misguided trousers (cardinal) Posted: June 14, 2018 at 02:01 PM (#5692211)
YUGE fan of Pale Fire


Yes, and my complaint is ironic given that Nabakov actually chose the text+endnotes structure for one of his greatest works.


Curious, therefore, on your feelings about Infinite Jest, if you've read it.
   3526. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: June 14, 2018 at 02:03 PM (#5692214)
Also, I'm not sure where else to put it, but MAN first-round scores at Shinnecock for the US Open are totally brutal.


Very tough winds = very tough rounds. It's consistently 17 mph, and then may switch/swirl and gust to 30 mph.
   3527. PreservedFish Posted: June 14, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5692216)
Curious, therefore, on your feelings about Infinite Jest, if you've read it.
Haven't read it. I've read a lot of DFW's non-fiction and I usually love the footnotes.
   3528. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5692222)
Very tough winds = very tough rounds. It's consistently 17 mph, and then may switch/swirl and gust to 30 mph.

Yeah, I have to catch the late starters later.
   3529. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 14, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5692227)
Let me know if you want tips, based what you like so far, what you're interested in, recommendations, etc.

I've found that Russian music of the late Tsarist and early Soviet period is best for meeting the criteria of
- written for an orchestra so I can listen to it in the car
- a lot of it has actual titles
- very melodic / dynamic
- generally not very subtle I guess

Rimsky-Korsakov, Balakirev, Borodin, Mussorgsky, Glazunov, Liadov, all great.

Also fitting this criteria are things like Hungarian Dances, Slavonic Dances, Hungarian Rhapsodies (although that's solo piano), Irish Rhapsodies, Ma Vlast, and the works of Hector Berlioz. I also like Messiaen a lot, on a totally different note. If anything else vaguely similar to Turangalila-Symphonie has ever been written, please let me know.

Also bought the collected symphonies of Shostakovich. That's like a year's worth of stuff to listen to right there so they are still lodged in their 11 CD sleeves.
   3530. Morty Causa Posted: June 14, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5692231)
Jo Stafford can't rock like this! RATTLESNAKE RATTLESNAKE RATTLESNAKE RATTLESNAKE

I could dance to it, Dick. I give it a 90.
   3531. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2018 at 02:24 PM (#5692239)
Crispix - listened to any Mahler so far? Or Scriabin?

As far as more British items (dances, rhapsodies), symphonically, there's Percy Grainger.

I'll post some things when I get home.
   3532. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: June 14, 2018 at 02:25 PM (#5692240)
So Scott Gregory of England shoots a 92 in the first round. So, of course I need to see that scorecard and I look at it on usopen.com. According to the site, Gregory carded a triple bogey 7 on the 14th hole. Ok, fine, gotta get to 92 somehow. I click on the shot by shot charting, which is cool. He drove it down the middle of the fairway 334 yards, and then it appears that he was next laying two from the right rough, but at least 84 yards further from the hole than where he was laying 1 off the tee. In other words, how did he go backwards some 80 plus yards from the fairway? I'm guessing this is the equivalent of MLBAB 'gameday' blowing up when there was some weird rundown. The text of the rundown omits his second shot. Maybe he had to hit a provisional, I don't know have any other explanation. I don't recall a tree on the right side of the fairway out there. It is windy.
   3533. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2018 at 02:26 PM (#5692242)
Tiger Woods ####### triple-bogeyed the first hole, I see.


how did he go backwards some 80 plus yards from the fairway?

Errrr.... tree? Tree branch? Seagull?
   3534. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 14, 2018 at 02:35 PM (#5692249)
Errrr.... tree? Tree branch? Seagull?
Gopher.
   3535. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 14, 2018 at 02:37 PM (#5692251)
Thanks, I never heard of Percy Grainger. I did discover the very enjoyable Victorian works of Sir Granville Bantock and Sir Charles Villiers Stanford, both of whom have... let's see, yes, never been mentioned on this site before.

The other two are more famous but I haven't explored them. Maybe that's the next step.
   3536. BDC Posted: June 14, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5692258)
listened to any Mahler so far?

I was listening to Tom Lehrer yesterday, and his song about Alma Mahler is still my favorite.

The first one who met her was Mahler,
Whose buddies all knew him as Gustav.
And each time he saw her he'd holler
"Ach, that is the Fräulein I must have!"

But marriage to Alma was murder.
Gus cried to the heavens above:
"I'm writing Das Lied von der Erde,
And she only wants to make love!"
   3537. Graham & the 15-win "ARod Vortex of suck" Posted: June 14, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5692261)
I realize I'm a page or two late now, but thanks to everyone for the cookbook recommendations. I'm going to pick up one or two of those and see where they take me.

Jo Stafford can't rock like this! RATTLESNAKE RATTLESNAKE RATTLESNAKE RATTLESNAKE

I'm seeing these guys tonight in Boston.


I'm seeing Japanese Breakfast tomorrow night. Has anyone here seen them? I loved their last album and their Cranberries cover, too.
   3538. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: June 14, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5692264)
I just can't read literary novels. It's hard enough to read any novels that aren't about detectives. I make up for it with good taste in other areas.


Just out of curiosity - how would you define a 'literary novel'?

Again - someone who flailed away on literary criticism and movement/genre classification - but I think lots of folks substitute "literary" for "modernism" (and its succeeding movements).

Pigeonholing can be an exercise in futility, but I'd say that a work more in the realism tradition can be every bit as literary as its denser step-siblings in the modernist/post-modernist realms.
   3539. McCoy Posted: June 14, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5692286)
Not to harp on it but Eater.com is really a joke. It could be so much more but for whatever reason they have decided to employ the millennials do work for free so we won't hire anyone and produce any real content. What content they do have is either list making or being a crude news aggregator. Their lists almost always look like they are rigged. For instance every month or so they come out with an Eater Brunch list and for around a year now in Atlanta Mediterreana has made that list. This last month was the first time in ages he did not show up. It's an ok place but it certainly isn't amazing and the list isn't 50 restaurants long. They usually list only about 8 to 12 places in these lists. They just came out with a list for top notch wine lists in Atlanta and 8arm made it on the list. Now they put 8arm on pretty much every list they do including brunch which is again a joke. But getting back to the top notch wine list thing 8arm has something like 8 wine choices. I mean come on!
   3540. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 14, 2018 at 03:29 PM (#5692300)
but for whatever reason they have decided to employ the millennials do work for free so we won't hire anyone and produce any real content.
Pretty sure the "whatever reason" is in there somewhere.
   3541. McCoy Posted: June 14, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5692306)
I know but getting better content leads to more traffic. More traffic generally leads to more revenue in one form or another.
   3542. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: June 14, 2018 at 03:57 PM (#5692323)
It's an online version of the Ad in the airline magazine touting the 'Top 10 steakhouses' in America.
   3543. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5692328)
I was listening to Tom Lehrer yesterday, and his song about Alma Mahler is still my favorite.

And I can still hum the tune.
   3544. BDC Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:10 PM (#5692390)
Not sure whether this is politics or popular culture, which is why I am not sure they should be separated. But since food has come up so often here:

conscientious consumers are increasingly paying top dollar for what they believe is local, sustainably caught seafood. But even in this fast-growing niche market, companies can hide behind murky supply chains that make it difficult to determine where any given fish comes from. That’s where national distributor Sea to Table stepped in, guaranteeing its products were wild and directly traceable to a US dock and sometimes the very boat that brought it in.

However, an investigation found the company was linked to some of the same practices it vowed to fight, the Associated Press reports.

Preliminary DNA tests commissioned by AP suggested some of the company’s yellowfin tuna were likely to have come from the other side of the world, and reporters traced the company’s supply chain to migrant fishermen in foreign waters who described labor abuses, poaching and the slaughter of sharks, whales and dolphins.


From what I read, though, this is nearly dog-bites-man. The seafood industry is apparently riddled with fraud.
   3545. I am going to be Frank Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:25 PM (#5692398)
the Only way you’re going to get fresh seafood is if you or someone you know catches it, is swimming in a tank or is line caught and the restaurant has a very limited amount. Even then who knows how long the fish have been swimming in that tank. I think it’s worth trying to do the sustainable/local thing but as a restaurant your offerings are going to be limited and constantly running out during service.
   3546. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:34 PM (#5692405)
Boy, I am bad luck for Tiger Woods. I turned on the TV as he was putting (35 ft.) for birdie.... and he four-putted.
   3547. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:41 PM (#5692409)
That's why I don't buy fish at a restaurant. I can't even tell what species a fish is by eating it, unless it's salmon or a couple others. Let alone having any way of knowing where they come from or how long they've been dead. At a place with 8 different fish on the menu they could all be tilapia in disguise and most people couldn't tell.

^^^^above paragraph applies specifically to fish, not oysters, clams, shrimp, crabs, etc
   3548. Chicago Joe Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:56 PM (#5692417)
To whoever posted the tale of John Kidd, this previous piece by Mr. Hitt is a must-read as well: Sea Monkey Business.
   3549. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: June 14, 2018 at 06:01 PM (#5692422)

^^^^above paragraph applies specifically to fish, not oysters, clams, shrimp, crabs, etc


Buyer beware, I guess - but I'd point to the usage of "langostino lobster" in this group, too... though, IIRC, there was an FTC action that at least required restaurants to use the word "langostino" if their "lobster"-based product is, in fact, langostino.

Of course, the (primarily chain) movement to turn what is essentially crappy crawfish into "lobster" via a fancy-sounding name remains.

IIRC, I think you actually have to put 'crab' - at least, the non-legged dish variety - into the same bucket.

   3550. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2018 at 07:18 PM (#5692465)
Crispix - here is Mahler's "Resurrection" symphony, 1st movement, conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas, in 2004 recording. If this doesn't inspire you to search out the rest of the piece and more Mahler, nothing will. (I sang in the chorus in this symphony under Tilson-Thomas in 1998. The first movement has no chorus.)

I mean, here's the ENTIRE symphony under hot young thing Gustavo Dudamel in 2011. I have never listened to this recording, but it IS the entire thing. With no knowledge of this recording, I'd recommend purchasing an entire Tilson-Thomas or Herbert Blomstedt instead, but at least here you have it fully. People seem to have high praise for Dudamel. It sounds a little ponderous to me, honestly, in the first 10 minutes, but, YMMV, and everyone else's.
   3551. Lassus Posted: June 14, 2018 at 07:31 PM (#5692480)
Here's Alexander Scriabin's Le Poème de l'Extase op. 54 conducted by Pierre Boulez. It is Scriabin's most famous work, rightfully so.

I like a lot of unknown stuff, such as his The Divine Poem, and the YOUTUBE channel this is on "UNSUNG MASTERWORKS" is on permanent rotation on my computer.

Scriabin's Mysterium.
   3552. Rennie's Tenet Posted: June 14, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5692550)
Re: Jo Stafford, there's a very nice compilation of recordings of Hoagy Carmichael songs that were licensed to Smithsonian and the Indiana Historical society. Many of the top vocalists of the mid-20th century, multiple version of Stardust and Georgia on My Mind, and Jo Stafford's take on The Nearness of You.
   3553. Howie Menckel Posted: June 14, 2018 at 10:24 PM (#5692555)
every month or so they come out with an Eater Brunch list and for around a year now in Atlanta Mediterreana has made that list. This last month was the first time in ages he did not show up. It's an ok place but it certainly isn't amazing and the list isn't 50 restaurants long.

not to explain how sausages are made - that's your area of expertise, not mine - but a thorough investigative search of a correlation between advertising on the site and relative ranking (or disappearance) might prove, well, fruitful.

welcome to 2018
   3554. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 14, 2018 at 10:39 PM (#5692558)
the Only way you’re going to get fresh seafood is if you or someone you know catches it, is swimming in a tank or is line caught and the restaurant has a very limited amount. Even then who knows how long the fish have been swimming in that tank. I think it’s worth trying to do the sustainable/local thing but as a restaurant your offerings are going to be limited and constantly running out during service.


Eh, just live in Seattle or most big cities on the coast. It's expensive but this time of year the cod and salmon are always fresh. Maybe I'm a seafood and fish elitist. I guess I did grow up on the coast in MI and lived on a coast in NYC and Seattle the rest of my life.

There was briefly an actual Japanese owned sushi spot on Petoskey MI that used fresh lake caught white fish and salmon. That was pretty awesome but they closed quickly. Just not enough culture and pop up there to sustain something like that. The "whitefish" of the great lakes is a wonderful eating fish. I'd compare it to a flakier cod, not quite as meaty but with that same nice texure and mild taste. Never really liked lake trout that much. Perch is excellent. Blue gill as well. Beer battered blue gill is good eating and ditto perch. At least when I was growing up it was hard to fish for perch in Lake Michigan and Charlevoix because of overfishing in the 80s. I believe the size min was 11" at the time with a daily max of 15 or so. Looks like the regulations overall for Lake Michigan have been relaxed since then.

Of course, the (primarily chain) movement to turn what is essentially crappy crawfish into "lobster" via a fancy-sounding name remains.


apparently Louisiana accounts for like 80% of overall crawfish consumption and production in the US. that's what our bayou (not a swamp!) guide claimed anyways last time I was down there. It's ####### delicious. I could eat etouuffee for days. I think the version they harvest in Louisiana is especially "sweet". Good eatin'.
   3555. McCoy Posted: June 15, 2018 at 06:33 AM (#5692609)
not to explain how sausages are made - that's your area of expertise, not mine - but a thorough investigative search of a correlation between advertising on the site and relative ranking (or disappearance) might prove, well, fruitful.

welcome to 2018


That would be Peachtree TV not Eater. Local restaurants don't advertise on Eater.
   3556. McCoy Posted: June 15, 2018 at 06:48 AM (#5692610)
the Only way you’re going to get fresh seafood is if you or someone you know catches it, is swimming in a tank or is line caught and the restaurant has a very limited amount. Even then who knows how long the fish have been swimming in that tank. I think it’s worth trying to do the sustainable/local thing but as a restaurant your offerings are going to be limited and constantly running out during service.

"Fresh fish" is easily obtainable and has been for decades. Now it is true some item might not be available year round or be very expensive in some parts of the country but it is certainly false that you have to jump through significant hoops to experience fresh fish in this country. It was even false when Bourdain held his nose up at Sunday brunches and Monday fish special or whatever it is he told you to stay away from. That was just the NYC food scene snobbery talking (and of course as he explored the world he changed his views on a lot of things that were previously based on NYC snobbery). The supply chain is very very good and they do a great job maintaining cold temperatures and handling the fish properly. You get an order in on Friday it isn't going to be slimy on Monday or smell bad either.

Yes it is easier to get say, wild caught salmon on the coasts but most restaurants are going to be serving farm raised salmon and it is going to be fresh and taste the same in Omaha as it does in San Diego. I will also say most of the "scams" are overblown. It is possible that some of the fast food fish places are scamming you but it is very very rare for a typical sit down restaurant to try and give you tilapia instead of sea bass. Some fish are tougher than others and it generally has to do with distributors and their "creative marketing" titles for their product than the restaurants ordering it. For instance in Philadelphia we would get whole red snapper and cut it up into fillets. In SE Wisconsin I couldn't really get that nor afford it so when I asked for red snapper at a price my customers could afford they sent me "red snapper" which was, yeah, basically tilapia. So I went with another fish. Should the labeling get cleaned up? Yes but most of the stuff is interchangeable anyway and we only prefer one or the other because of previous marketing ploys. Orange roughy and Chilean sea bass became fad fish because someone had the brilliant idea not to call them slimeheads and toothfish but beyond the marketing there is no real reason why diners preferred these fish over other fish.
   3557. McCoy Posted: June 15, 2018 at 07:15 AM (#5692618)
That would be Peachtree TV not Eater. Local restaurants don't advertise on Eater.


I think Eater does what it does because it is understaffed ( I think DC has something like 2 full time staff members and Atlanta has 1, DC has maybe 1 or 2 other freelance writers that regularly turn in content while Atlanta might have just gotten another writer to regularly turn in content) and it is thus easier to play favorites. Are they personally taking bribes or helping out friends? I don't know but you can easily see that the limited staff members play favorites and because they just have only 1 or 2 members on staff that is all we end up seeing. Instead of seeing say 6 full time staff members picks and their favorites and thus getting a good cross section of what is going on in the city we're getting to see the same dozen or so restaurants popping up on all of the lists constantly.
   3558. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: June 15, 2018 at 09:40 AM (#5692656)
So I went with another fish. Should the labeling get cleaned up? Yes but most of the stuff is interchangeable anyway and we only prefer one or the other because of previous marketing ploys. Orange roughy and Chilean sea bass became fad fish because someone had the brilliant idea not to call them slimeheads and toothfish but beyond the marketing there is no real reason why diners preferred these fish over other fish.


I don't know about that (interchangeable) - as a midwesterner, I'm more familiar with freshwater fish than ocean, but among the various freshwater fishes, I think I could absolutely differentiate between say, perch, walleye, trout, catfish, bass, crappie, et al (prepared as filets, obviously, where one couldn't so easily distinguish it). I certainly have my preferences. I would assume that the same is transferable to ocean fish.

FWIW, I've got nothing against tilapia - it's what I usually grill mostly because I find most fish to be difficult to prepare well (steaky fishes like salmon or tuna, I think I can do OK - it's the lighter, flakier fishes I tend to ruin) so if you #### up a tilapia filet, it's no great loss.
   3559. McCoy Posted: June 15, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5692696)
I'm not saying all fish taste the same. I'm saying what gets popular and sought after has little to do with the uniqueness of any given fish.
   3560. PreservedFish Posted: June 15, 2018 at 10:30 AM (#5692709)
I'm a huge fan of mackerel and sardines and bluefish and such, the dark oily fish. Given that they're generally considered the most sustainable fish available and also just about the healthiest, I'm hoping that's a trend that catches on.

And yes. Those fish all preserve well.
   3561. Omineca Greg Posted: June 15, 2018 at 10:43 AM (#5692723)
I'm a huge fan of mackerel...

Maybe I've just never had it prepared nicely, but that is one I avoid like the plague.

Sometimes I just crave fish, like it's a food group all off on its own and my body is telling me I'm running low on it.

I don't know why that happens.
   3562. PreservedFish Posted: June 15, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5692724)
I made this famous dish from the pioneering French restaurant Troigros recently, with the cream sauce, and it was great. But more importantly, it introduced me to a new way of cooking salmon. He slices (and/or pounds) the salmon into a thin block of even thickness, and then cooks it for about 1 minute in a non-stick pan, over medium heat, with no butter or oil at all. The reason I like it most is that it's fast and it doesn't generate much in the way of smell. Really great option for a weeknight dinner.

I also appreciate how gentle it is. Unlike meat, which almost always tastes best when it's been seared/grilled hard and caramelized, some fish can get tough and rubbery (or dry & cottony) if it's cooked too hard, leaving an unpleasant exterior even if the interior is perfectly cooked. This is a very soft way of cooking it - the salmon in the video gets no color on it at all, which leaves the exterior just as buttery as the rare interior.

Usually I prefer salmon with the skin on, with a nice hard sear. The skin is delicious. But that's mostly a great way to spread a cloud of minuscule fish oil particles throughout your home. The pan needs to be smoking hot to prevent the skin from sticking. (A good broiler can make the job easier and less smelly) And my incompetent local grocery stores are not very adept at scaling the fish either.
   3563. Lassus Posted: June 15, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5692736)
I made this famous dish from the pioneering French restaurant Troigros recently

WELL, I think I have that beat. I made this, uh, tomato soup from seriouseats.com last night. It actually worked out pretty well, for something that I doubt anyone who could read would screw up. I had to shorten the cooking time from 90 minutes to 70 to 75 or so to keep my wife from stabbing and cooking me, but it still turned out. I even managed to properly chiffonade the basil, so I'm ready for Top Chef.
   3564. PreservedFish Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5692745)
I think my cream sauce probably beat your carrots-masquerading-as-cream. At least in flavor if not healthiness or expense.

My tip to tomato soup is that I like to cook the canned tomato in fat more than most people would have you do it. Allow most of the water to cook off and then if there's enough butter/oil in the pan, the tomato will actually start to caramelize. This can get messy too. But the sweetness will also cover up the acidity, and transforms the flavor from "just out of a can" into "some Italian grandma probably spent hours on this."
   3565. Lassus Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5692747)
If you say so. We'll let Padma decide.

EDIT: Actually as far as that recipe goes, I did halve the heavy cream, just felt like something a bit less heavy/creamy.
   3566. McCoy Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:03 AM (#5692748)
I'm not a fish eater so seafood has never been cooked in my home but one time my roommate back when I was like 20 decided to saute up some trouts for him and his girlfriend and I almost killed him a week later because of the rancid oil smell in the kitchen. Trying to be a gourmet chef in a young kid's first apartment is a very hard thing to pull off.
   3567. Hysterical & Useless Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:03 AM (#5692749)
to keep my wife from stabbing and cooking me


Lassus, when did you get married? Was this announced here before? Last time I knew, your were still just Living in Sin.

I feel, like, totally out of the loop (I know, I know, my natural state).

Anyway, congrats to you, best wishes to the mrs, looking forward to seeing you both in August.

[I had noticed a couple days ago you made a "wife" reference, but I was so far behind in the thread I didn't get around to asking.]
   3568. McCoy Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5692750)
That hurts.
   3569. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:11 AM (#5692753)
I'm a huge fan of mackerel and sardines and bluefish and such, the dark oily fish. Given that they're generally considered the most sustainable fish available and also just about the healthiest, I'm hoping that's a trend that catches on.


I love mackerel. Favorite canned fish and also favorite sushi. Canned mackerel in tomato sauce, with toast or even with spaghetti.
   3570. Lassus Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5692754)
Lassus, when did you get married?

Errrrr..... six weeks ago? It was more or less to get her on my health insurance. We did it at lunch, a judge came to the house. We still have a hard time remembering to refer to each other as such.


Anyway, congrats to you, best wishes to the mrs, looking forward to seeing you both in August

And thank you, that's the plan!
   3571. Lassus Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:15 AM (#5692760)
But the sweetness will also cover up the acidity

Thanks for the note.
   3572. Omineca Greg Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:22 AM (#5692768)
I know somebody who made quite a bit of money in business selling high end range hoods to Chinese families in Vancouver.

They like to cook seafood at home, but they don't want their house to smell like a Chinese restaurant. And the range hoods that come in even upscale houses really aren't up to the task. So my friend's father contracted a factory in China to manufacture pumped up range hoods for domestic use, and then imported them to Canada. To increase their efficacy isn't that expensive, but he could sell them for a very tidy sum. He's a man who has tried lots of different ideas to make money, and that one was by far the most profitable.
   3573. Hysterical & Useless Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5692771)
Errrrr..... six weeks ago? It was more or less to get her on my health insurance.


#2 son (Sam, the one who came to the game a few years ago) got married last fall for essentially the same reason. So romantic!

And we found out about it 6 weeks later. Coincidence?
   3574. BDC Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5692776)
Yes, congratulations, Lassus!

   3575. McCoy Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5692778)
Most hoods in homes aren't really hoods but filters that cycle the air through a filter and send it right back into your kitchen. I made sure my hood actually dumps the exhaust outdoors and the fan is pretty decent. I cook a lot and I have yet to find much grease on the walls beyond the hood system. Every couple of months I'll take the filters down and soak them in some soapy water and wipe them down.
   3576. stig-tossled,hornswoggled gef the talking mongoose Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5692779)
Canned mackerel in tomato sauce, with toast or even with spaghetti.


I'll have to try that sometime. The concept reminds me somewhat of a recipe a friend of ours gave my second wife back in the '80s for a spaghetti sauce featuring, IIRC, mainly canned clam & lots of black pepper. Pretty good stuff.
   3577. Nasty Nate Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5692781)
We did it at lunch, a judge came to the house.
How does one go about finding a judge or someone else to do this?
   3578. McCoy Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5692790)
Well, even though nobody noticed :( we simply googled a service that would do photos and service all wherever you would like in Savannah.
   3579. Lassus Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5692791)
How does one go about finding a judge or someone else to do this?

The same way I found the tomato soup recipe - the internet! It was a local judge who was about 800 years old. He was the quickest one available. Had to get a license from the state office building the day prior.

Out of boredom I dropped some hints to the clerk that she was pregnant, let some planted insulin syringes fall out of my GF's purse onto the counter. Entertainment is scarce in this area.
   3580. Nasty Nate Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5692796)
The same way I found the tomato soup recipe - the internet! It was a local judge who was about 800 years old. He was the quickest one available. Had to get a license from the state office building the day prior.
Thanks. I have an elopement in my future, but haven't yet worked out all of the necessary steps.
   3581. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: June 15, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5692821)
My congratulations as well, Lassus!
   3582. Lassus Posted: June 15, 2018 at 12:51 PM (#5692826)
Thank you, Zonk. We will travel at warp 11 and have salamander babies in your honor.
   3583. I am going to be Frank Posted: June 15, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5692845)
When my parents remodeled the kitchen, they had to go to flushing to get a hood. It really is an Asian thing . However nowadays she brooks fish in a toaster oven. Doesn’t even stink up the house.
   3584. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: June 15, 2018 at 02:15 PM (#5692894)
Mazel tov, Lassus!
   3585. Lassus Posted: June 15, 2018 at 02:27 PM (#5692907)
Thank you, BDC and Scott -
   3586. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: June 15, 2018 at 03:31 PM (#5692990)
we simply googled a service that would do photos and service all wherever you would like in Savannah.


Do we have two recent marriages?

   3587. Lassus Posted: June 15, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5692998)
I admit I found McCoy's post pretty confusing.
   3588. Omineca Greg Posted: June 15, 2018 at 07:07 PM (#5693082)
Congratulations McCoy!

Congratulations Lassus!

Let's send this one out, Jo Stafford working in a much hipper style than she normally did...

You'd Be So Nice To Come Home To

You get Jimmy Rowles, Ben Webster, and Ray Nance solos.
   3589. McCoy Posted: June 15, 2018 at 07:16 PM (#5693085)
Got married a week ago
   3590. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 15, 2018 at 07:17 PM (#5693086)
Congrats to McCoy and Lassus - and to me! I got married about 5 weeks ago. 'Tis the mating season for Primates, it would appear.
   3591. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 15, 2018 at 07:21 PM (#5693088)
Was it a little awkward for you guys moving your wives into your mom's basement too?
   3592. McCoy Posted: June 15, 2018 at 07:34 PM (#5693092)
Congrats.

No we don't have a basement in this house.
   3593. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: June 15, 2018 at 07:49 PM (#5693102)
Congrats ElRoy and McCoy!
   3594. Max Parkinson Posted: June 15, 2018 at 07:53 PM (#5693105)
Graham (#3537),

Sorry if this is too late and you’re already at the show, but I saw Japanese Breakfast last year, opening for Slowdive. I really liked their first album, and didn’t mind the one they released this year (Road Head is a pretty cool track). Their stage presence doesn’t quite add up to the albums...not sure why exactly. Michelle is a pretty petite girl, and maybe it takes a special individual to pull off big presence as a petite gal - Alvvays is a FANTASTIC band, but their lead Molly is very much in the same boat. Contrast to PJ Harvey who can dominate a room like no one else at about 95 lbs....

Anyway, maybe it wasn’t the right crowd - all the forty somethings who came out for the Slowdive reunion show may not have been the right energy. You can see the record label’s thoughts - ‘these guys use reverb. That’s like shoegaze! Send ‘em out with the English folk’. But maybe my disappointment with the live show vis a vis the records could have been environmental.

At any rate, hope you enjoy the show tonight - In Heaven was really one of the best songs of the year a couple years ago.
   3595. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 15, 2018 at 07:59 PM (#5693109)
No we don't have a basement in this house.
So you're all on one floor? That has to be even more awkward.
   3596. BDC Posted: June 15, 2018 at 09:22 PM (#5693149)
All best wishes to McCoy, Ripken, Lassus, and spouses.

Hope everybody had a lovely honeymoon à la Jo Stafford and Teddy Johnson. There's a small hotel …
   3597. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: June 15, 2018 at 09:28 PM (#5693157)
I got a nice education on kitchen hood ventilation recently by our builder. The hood shopping is expensive, one of my wife's must haves. It does look good at least the one she is getting.
   3598. Morty Causa Posted: June 15, 2018 at 09:39 PM (#5693168)
I was going to couch my congratulation in appropriately snarky terms (like, for instance, surmising that it's all just more proof that IQ has been diminishing the last few decades), but instead I'll just link this ditty (no, it's not Jo Stafford) with its delicious implications in the concluding verse:

My Sugar Is So Refined
   3599. Howie Menckel Posted: June 15, 2018 at 09:42 PM (#5693171)
re fresh seafood: my old roommate worked for Martha Stewart's magazine (and Martha Stewart!).

one of the execs was going on vacation, and he wanted a house-sitter. in snooty Westport, CT.

the guy's car had a sticker that got us into a Westport country club for dinner. you eat on a deck that extends over the water. you order a lobster, they ask what size. then someone goes out back, and they bring up the traps and grab the one that is the right size.

interesting to think that these lobsters are roaming the bottom - and as you hem and haw about what size to get, you are playing God.

it's a glorious feeling!
   3600. Omineca Greg Posted: June 15, 2018 at 11:06 PM (#5693231)
Hope everybody had a lovely honeymoon à la Jo Stafford and Teddy Johnson.

Teddy Johnson got married in 1955 to Pearl Carr, and as a singing duet they had a long career in the UK.

Well, he just died last week at the age of 98. And they've been married all that time. 62+ years...

That's a long time.

Before getting married, they had their own careers...and Pearl sang back up on this one from 1956, before their careers on their own really got going. This is essentially an English knock-off of a massive American hit earlier in the year...not very "pop" culture I'm afraid, and it is very white and very old, but come on...give it up for 62 years.

Dave King

And before we get too sentimental, anybody seen "45 Years"? Charlotte Rampling, Tom Courtenay. That one's a real kick in the balls, let me tell you.
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