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Wednesday, August 01, 2018

OT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (August 2018)

After watching the pilot episode of “Deadwood,” I got up, lowered the blinds, dimmed the lights and burned through the rest of the DVD in a fugue of wonder and excitement. I didn’t leave the series until the next day, staggering limply into the harsh sunlight like Ray Milland in “The Lost Weekend.”

It was 2004, and I had been the chief television critic at The New York Times for about a year. HBO had sent me advance screeners of its new western. And I was discovering binge watching.

There are dramas that are arguably better or more widely appreciated than “Deadwood”: “The Sopranos,” “The Wire” or “Breaking Bad.”  But of all the shows I have reviewed over the past 12 years, “Deadwood” is the one I would most like to see again for the first time.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: August 01, 2018 at 03:06 AM | 1210 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movies, music, off-topic, television, whatever else belongs under the rubric of 'popular culture'

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   901. Greg K Posted: August 19, 2018 at 03:34 PM (#5729788)
Oh man, yeah, that was terrible. And now they’re going to have to write in the next one that she was in a coma for a week and then died or something lame like that.

Nonsense. Death is no reason stop acting in Star Wars movies.
   902. McCoy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5729790)
Patience generally gets rewarded. Went to Home Depot today and they have the Weber 4 Burner grills on sale for 699 which is the normal price of the 3 burner grill. The one I bought at the beginning of the BBQ season. Oh well, I guess in 15 years I'll know better when it comes time to buy another grill.
   903. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 19, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5729791)
Fair point. She would still have more range than Hayden Christensen.
   904. cardsfanboy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 03:40 PM (#5729792)
According to pretty much all source material I can find the faster than light travel to all the various places happens really really quickly. Like hours and not days. I think Tatooine was supposed to be out on the Outer Rim while Coruscant is supposed to be in the center of the universe and in the old books it took like a day at worst to travel it.


Really? That goes counter to some of the no-longer canon source materials and games that they produced. But again, the original movies kept the time fuzzy on purpose. The Thrawn trilogy had several scenes which relied on the long travel times for plot points. (of course part of the problem was that the original rpg table for hyperspace travel had a typo, where they listed the travel time in days not hours, so I never got the correction when I played.... Tatooine to Alderaan was supposed to be 7 hours, not 7 days as the table originally read)
   905. PreservedFish Posted: August 19, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5729793)
Hey, CGI Leia would probably be an improvement over Fisher's performances in these movies. I'll be charitable and assume that the directors told her that Leia had slowly evolved into a worn-down Angela Merkel figure. No wonder the Rebel's allies turned a deaf ear to their plight - why the entire rebellion would be destroyed now were it not for some crystalline foxes.
   906. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 19, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5729795)
For over a decade, the Comics Reporter website has had a feature asking a semi-specific question on a (mostly) weekly basis. Its readers submit their five choices. Could be "Name Five Super Powers You'd Enjoy Having, None Of Which Are Super-Strength, Flying, Invisibility, Mind-Reading or Teleportation." Could be "Name Five Pieces Of Original Art You'd Want To Own." Could be "Name Five Endings In Comics That Weren't Really Endings But You Thought Would Have Worked."

This week, their theme was "Name Two Comic Strips You Like More Than The General Critical Consensus As You Perceive It, One You Like Just About The Same, And Two You Like Less."

Some strips I like more: Sherman's Lagoon; Herman; Andy Capp (Reg Smythe version); Eyebeam; Blondie (1950s-70s); For Better or For Worse (McManus version); Zits; B.C. (1960s-70s); Bringing Up Father; Mutts; Rose is Rose.

Some I like less: Pogo; Bloom County; Pearls Before Swine; Little Orphan Annie (Harold Gray version); Prince Valiant; Gasoline Alley (Frank King version); Terry & the Pirates; Zippy the Pinhead.

If "the general critical consensus" merely reflects popularity and/or longevity, there are a lot of successful strips that are not of real value to me (e.g. Hägar the Horrible; Cathy; Mary Worth; Hi & Lois; Brenda Starr; Garfield; The Born Loser; Mutt & Jeff; Get Fuzzy; Broom-Hilda; Ziggy; Momma; Wizard of Id; The Lockhorns; Tarzan; Barney Google; Funky Winkerbean; Mark Trail; Shoe; etc etc etc). But most of those don't carry any real critical prestige.

I'm deliberately overlooking the best "alternative" strips like "Life in Hell" and "Ernie Pook's Comeek" and "Amy and Jordan" and "Tom the Dancing Bug" and "Perry Bible Fellowship" and "Feiffer" and "The Tragedy Series" and "xkcd" and "Underworld" and "Julius Knipl." I'm assuming that they're properly valued but missing from the popular grid. "Krazy Kat" is sort of like that, except that it was a niche strip distributed with the full muscle of a top syndicator. And anyway, my opinion is in line with its reputation. A murkier example might be "Rudy," a really delightful, beautifully drawn niche strip that didn't catch on despite being backed by United Features Syndicate, and which is now never mentioned anywhere. Definitely up Morty or Andy's alley in "lite noir" tone and snappy dialogue (Rudy is a dapper, talking show biz ape from the 1940s trying to revive his career in the Hollywood of the 80s). Alas, just one collection was ever (and presumably will ever be) published.

There are also big strips like "Dick Tracy" and "Little Nemo in Slumberland" and "Nancy" and "The Family Circus" and "Beetle Bailey" that I think are woefully lacking in some areas but strong enough in one or two to give them value. In most cases these kinds of strips are nicely designed or have strong linework, but their content is vapid, monotonous or absent. The obverse situation-- hi there, "Dilbert"-- is rarer.
   907. McCoy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5729798)
Really? That goes counter to some of the no-longer canon source materials and games that they produced. But again, the original movies kept the time fuzzy on purpose. The Thrawn trilogy had several scenes which relied on the long travel times for plot points. (of course part of the problem was that the original rpg table for hyperspace travel had a typo, where they listed the travel time in days not hours, so I never got the correction when I played.... Tatooine to Alderaan was supposed to be 7 hours, not 7 days as the table originally read

Didn't the Thrawn trilogies have a lot of the action take place passed the Outer Rim where travel had to take longer because of navigational challenges?
   908. cardsfanboy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5729806)
Didn't the Thrawn trilogies have a lot of the action take place passed the Outer Rim where travel had to take longer because of navigational challenges?


Early on a lot of it takes place on the outer rim, not sure about the whole book though, barely remember the books as it's been several years since I read them.
   909. Hysterical & Useless Posted: August 19, 2018 at 04:29 PM (#5729822)
I think I've only seen 9 of the movies on the WaPo list (and not sure about a couple of those), but since it includes Eternal Sunshine I will pronounce it an excellent list. That film is just all kinds of great.

I'm not a big fan of animation, but Miyazaki has made some amazing movies.

While Lassus is probably right that Aretha shouldn't be blamed for the overuse of melisma in contemporary pop singing, the overuse itself is unquestionable. It should be used to emphasize important words or phrases, but when the singer uses it in every forking line, it's just an incredibly annoying vocal tic. Heads should roll.

I was going to complain about all the Star Wars discussion but figured what's the use? It will go away for awhile...eventually (but we know it will always come back). Since I can't propose anything better to discuss I don't feel I have standing to complain.

Feel free to disagree with that last point!
   910. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: August 19, 2018 at 04:41 PM (#5729838)
and then died or something lame like that.


Not if it was on the way back to her home planet!

Oh, wait ...
   911. PreservedFish Posted: August 19, 2018 at 04:43 PM (#5729840)
Blaming Aretha for Mariah Carey is like blaming the Rolling Stones for Nickelback.
   912. McCoy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 04:46 PM (#5729841)
Well, I think we can blame Creed for Nickelback. Now who do we blame for Creed?
   913. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 19, 2018 at 04:48 PM (#5729842)
Now who do we blame for Creed?
Satan himself.
   914. Chicago Joe Posted: August 19, 2018 at 04:53 PM (#5729846)
Pearl Jam.
   915. PreservedFish Posted: August 19, 2018 at 05:06 PM (#5729861)
I went for a walk and I thought about Star Wars almost the entire time. Upon further review, The Last Jedi was hella dumbass. It still ranks above the loathsome prequels but it's the 4th worst. In my humble opinion.
   916. McCoy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 06:26 PM (#5729921)
I forget which one came out last, probably Solo, but I recall I doing a ranking after it. Out of all the new ones Rogue One goes to the top followed by TFA and since all of the prequels are at the bottom I guess that puts TLJ third and Solo fourth but I think there is a huge chasm between the prequels and the rest and a pretty big divide between TFA and the third and fourth best movies. Rogue One was a good movie, it was what an adult Star Wars movie should be for the generations that grew up on Star Wars. The Force Awakens was probably an above mediocre movie that was shot rather well and from a standalone perspective told a decent story. From a Star Wars perspective the story they tell is a negative but if you're new to Star Wars you're not growning over the retelling of Star Wars. Solo and The Last Jedi are probably below mediocre films and of course the prequels are simply godawful in virtually every way imaginable.

The originals are simply impossible to rate accurately with the rest of the films for me and really I think for anyone who grew up on them. It would be interesting to find say 12 year old and sit them down and have them watch the films in SW universe order and have them rate the movies.
   917. McCoy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 06:28 PM (#5729923)
Pearl Jam.

Perhaps in terms of voice but I don't recall a lot of Pearl Jam fans embracing Creed. Creed was sort of like the Hootie and the Blowfish of grunge music (where I'm viewing Hootie as the Creed of "alternative Indie music" of the early 90's). So maybe Hanson is to blame for Creed.
   918. PreservedFish Posted: August 19, 2018 at 06:37 PM (#5729929)
I was not aware that Return of the Jedi was considered subpar until I was in my 20s probably. When I was a little kid, the fuzzy little bear people didn't bother me all that much.
   919. PreservedFish Posted: August 19, 2018 at 06:37 PM (#5729930)
I'm viewing Hootie as the Creed of "alternative Indie music" of the early 90's


what
   920. cardsfanboy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 06:39 PM (#5729932)
I was not aware that Return of the Jedi was considered subpar until I was in my 20s probably. When I was a little kid, the fuzzy little bear people didn't bother me all that much.


Agreed 100% with this, I saw Return of the Jedi so many times and loved it every time and then as I got older people started to complain about the Ewoks being a cash grab for marketing and unbelievable. The unbelievable part I got, but I accept that it was part of the story and it worked for me.
   921. PreservedFish Posted: August 19, 2018 at 06:42 PM (#5729933)
I also found Darth Vader's final moments extremely affecting.

I loved the Jabba scenes. Bib Fortuna. Salacious Crumb. That poor, poor fellow that weeps when his Rancor is cruelly slain. My heart goes out to him still!
   922. cardsfanboy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 06:44 PM (#5729934)
Perhaps in terms of voice but I don't recall a lot of Pearl Jam fans embracing Creed. Creed was sort of like the Hootie and the Blowfish of grunge music (where I'm viewing Hootie as the Creed of "alternative Indie music" of the early 90's). So maybe Hanson is to blame for Creed.


Mad TV did a skit on this one time, first they had a guy pretending to be from nickleback singing a song, then a guy from creed popped up singing about how he ripped his sound off, then Pearl Jam showed up to ##### that they were ripping his sound off.
Looking it up, my memory was a little off, it was The Calling ripping off Creed, ripping off Pearl Jam who apparently ripped someone else off.
See the video.
   923. cardsfanboy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 06:49 PM (#5729935)
I also found Darth Vader's final moments extremely affecting.

I loved the Jabba scenes. Bib Fortuna. Salacious Crumb. That poor, poor fellow that weeps when his Rancor is cruelly slain. My heart goes out to him still!



I think the best Star Wars type of movies (what I guess we can call light action, meaning light in tone) is when they fill the movie with moments, and Return was pretty much the peak of that. Anyone who liked that movie and is rewatching it has a tendency to say to themselves.... "I'm just going to watch this good moment that is coming up." and then remember another good moment coming up. And so on until they finish the movie. (Princess Bride is the champion of this type of pacing I would imagine)
   924. PreservedFish Posted: August 19, 2018 at 06:55 PM (#5729937)
How about ... Nickleback > Pearl Jam > Dinosaur Jr > Neil Young > Bob Dylan > Woody Guthrie > the Carter Family>unknown country/folk progenitors?
   925. Greg K Posted: August 19, 2018 at 07:13 PM (#5729939)
How about ... Nickleback > Pearl Jam > Dinosaur Jr > Neil Young > Bob Dylan > Woody Guthrie > the Carter Family>unknown country/folk progenitors?

I think we can all agree that Nickelback is greater than Bob Dylan, but Neil Young?
   926. McCoy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 07:37 PM (#5729945)
I don't think nickleback sounds anything like pearl jam.
   927. McCoy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 07:40 PM (#5729946)
I'll watch Star wars all the way through, will fat forward through Dagobah in empire and will fat forward through basically any scene in which Luke or the Jedi religion is the main point of the scene in RotJ. As a kid RotJ was my favorite followed by Empire but even as a kid I found the Jedi stuff in RotJ tedious and fast forward worthy.
   928. Lassus Posted: August 19, 2018 at 08:49 PM (#5729960)
I don't know how you can love Return of the Jedi, it was awful.
   929. McCoy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 09:03 PM (#5729966)
Because I was 6 is a good answer.
   930. Chicago Joe Posted: August 19, 2018 at 09:19 PM (#5729969)
Dinosaur Jr. did nothing wrong!
   931. Chicago Joe Posted: August 19, 2018 at 09:22 PM (#5729970)
ROTJ was fan service, imo.
   932. McCoy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 09:57 PM (#5729977)
It was merchandise service
   933. BDC Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:09 PM (#5729980)
In a different but still popular genre, I just finished the three-novel crime series by Pierre Lemaitre. In English the novels are called Irène, Alex, and Camille - Camille being the detective, and Irène and Alex two women who figure in his investigations. They are really good, really tricky, and really violent. Lemaitre alludes a lot to other writers, and thus the books are somewhat postmodern; but they are set in contemporary, realistic Paris, and have lots of action scenes.
   934. PreservedFish Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:15 PM (#5729982)
BDC, is it true that the French put Agatha Christie on a level with Shakespeare and Milton? This seems right in your wheelhouse - can you comment on this?
   935. Brian C Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:29 PM (#5729987)
Return of the Jedi has a lot of problems besides the Ewoks, though. Basically, by that point in the series, there were only two things that anyone really cared to see: 1) Han get rescued and 2) Luke fight Vader and the Emperor.

But for some reason, Lucas and his writing collaborators were not able to come up with a way to integrate these two storylines. So you spend the first 45 minutes of the movie on a subplot that has no bearing on the main plot in any way. It's just very poor writing.

And then you get to the Ewok planet (or moon, I guess), and even more than the Ewoks feeling like a toy ad, what they really feel like to me is a distraction. Their structural purpose in the film is to keep us from realizing that there's not actually anything going on during those scenes they are in. And that's because the best idea the writers could come up with for a big climactic scene was ... just blowing up another Death Star. This is insultingly lazy for a big, long-awaited, eagerly anticipated event movie, but there's a lot of runtime to kill (blowing up the Death Star only takes two actual seconds, after all), so we have to sit through a bunch of argle-bargle about a shield generator and honestly who could possibly give a crap about that?

So we get Ewoks. But complaining about marketing tie-ins really seems beside the point, because even if they were 95% less lame, they'd still only be there to keep us from noticing how little effort the writers actually put into this thing.
   936. BDC Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:41 PM (#5729994)
Fish, from what I've read of French literary criticism, I don't think French writers and readers see Agatha Christie on any exalted literary level. She is hugely popular in France, but she's hugely popular everywhere. She has been very influential on French detective fiction, but that's true of all detective fiction. A critic named Pierre Bayard wrote an intriguing book a few years ago called Who Killed Roger Ackroyd - the whole book is a close reading of Christie's Murder of Roger Ackroyd, and is really attentive and clever: but I doubt that Bayard would put Christie on a par with Shakespeare (he's written a book about Shakespeare, too).

The French have certain English-language mystery writers that they value more highly than folks back home do. Edgar Allan Poe, though American critics have caught up with the French recently about Poe. And then there's the really odd example of James Hadley Chase, an Englishman who wrote hard-boiled novels with American settings. Most American mystery fans have never heard of Chase, or maybe just the title of his most famous book, No Orchids for Miss Blandish. But you can go into a big Paris bookstore and find all kinds of books by Chase, even little "CHASE" sections marked with labels below the shelves.
   937. cardsfanboy Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:43 PM (#5729995)
I don't get any of that complaint. Han is captured, so the first 45 minutes is about his rescue, that is one entire plot. The second thing that needs to be done, is to come up with a story that feels like a "True defeat" of the Empire. Having the Empire hatch a plan that is all or nothing for both sides works towards that end. The Empire lets the Rebels know what is going on, but keeps vital information away from them (like the Death Star is fully operational, and is able to recharge it's main gun much faster than realized, and able to use it to target ships) while still giving away one vital piece of information (that the death star in it's current state, doesn't have it's own protection, but requires a shield generator on a planet/moon that it's orbiting during it's construction)

This plan more or less guarantees that the Rebellion will send a large part of it's fleet, if not the entire fleet, and it makes sense for the Empire to protect it's assets by bringing in a large portion of it's fleet to defend it, but hiding that fleet for the final "flank" maneuver it has plan. This works towards making it seem like a final defeat of the Empire for the trilogy using typical movie logic.


I get that the "big kill weapon" is lazy writing, but the real point of course was to have a potential battle that feels it has a chance of legitimately changing the status quo of the universe, and heck it's possible that if you really look at the logistics of building a death star (a hyperspace capable moon with the ability to destroy an entire planet in one shot) it's possible that the building of the second death star prevented the Empire from building a larger fleet, making it possible that one major skirmish could change the outcome (and then adding that the Emperor died in the final battle, and that the empire was pretty much controlled by him---he disbanded the Senate in the first movie, which was pretty recent in terms of history, ---that his death combined with the destruction of a large percentage of the defense forces, would probably set the empire in Chaos, and in at least one potential reality, a new form of Senate would have emerged with Leia as the defacto leader (the Force Awakens of course destroyed this concept, but considering that the resources of the Empire was more or less taken from planets, it's very likely that with the death of the Emperor, that the planets would have reverted to individual rule, and would have tried to create a new republic based upon the ideas of the old republic, which was a weak central government)

Edit: and the reason the Emperor was on the Death Star, was to recruit Luke, this is before the whole stupidity concept of "there is just two sith" was created, having another Darth Vader helps make him massively more powerful.
   938. Howie Menckel Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:48 PM (#5729999)
per 906

a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, David Letterman could be entertaining

Top Ten Least Exciting Superpowers for Comic Book Superheroes

10. Super spelling
9. Lightning-fast mood swings
8. Really bendy thumb
7. Unusually natural smile when posing for photographs
6. Ability to calm jittery squirrels
5. Power to shake exactly two aspirin out of a bottle
4. Ability to get tickets to Goodwill Games
3. Power to score with other superheroes' wives
2. Ability to communicate with corn
1. Magnetic colon

(ok, that didn't age that well, did it. probably a compliment to Letterman - was funny when you watched it 3 decades ago)
   939. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:56 PM (#5730008)
the best idea the writers could come up with for a big climactic scene was ... just blowing up another Death Star. This is insultingly lazy for a big, long-awaited, eagerly anticipated event movie,
So...what did you think of The Force Awakens?
   940. Brian C Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:25 PM (#5730024)
So...what did you think of The Force Awakens?

Well, obviously I get what you're driving at here. But aside from the whole "do you think they'll notice that we're recycling the Death Star thing yet again if we make it bigger and more powerful???" aspect of it, it was just dull anyway.

If I'm being completely honest, I have severe doubts if a good Star Wars movie can even be made at this point. For one thing, none of the other ones all are that great anyway. But for another, the mythology driving the series is just too thinly conceived to sustain the load that's being put on it. To me, The Last Jedi was the sight of a filmmaker wanting to pull the series in a new direction, but being boxed in. There was nowhere to take it because the whole "Force" idea is too simple-minded ... we're doomed to endless repetition of mind tricks and Force ghosts and what have you. And while I don't think Johnson's execution was very strong, still it's obvious that any attempt to flesh out the concept or reorient it will cause a large (or at least very vocal) segment of the fans to be SUPER PISSED OFF.

I guess I just fell like the whole thing has passed its sell-by date.

I don't get any of that complaint. Han is captured, so the first 45 minutes is about his rescue, that is one entire plot.

No. We know it's not an entire plot because it's over after 45 minutes but the movie continues for long after.
   941. Lassus Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:49 PM (#5730031)
Dinosaur Jr. did nothing wrong!

Maybe a few too many guitar solos.

Although Jay Mascis apparently recorded his epic MAGGOT BRAIN cover for Mike Watt's 'Ball Hog or Tugboat' in exactly one take. They had booked the studio for like five hours and were done in 25 minutes.
   942. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2018 at 12:26 AM (#5730040)
But for another, the mythology driving the series is just too thinly conceived to sustain the load that's being put on it. To me, The Last Jedi was the sight of a filmmaker wanting to pull the series in a new direction, but being boxed in. There was nowhere to take it because the whole "Force" idea is too simple-minded ... we're doomed to endless repetition of mind tricks and Force ghosts and what have you. And while I don't think Johnson's execution was very strong, still it's obvious that any attempt to flesh out the concept or reorient it will cause a large (or at least very vocal) segment of the fans to be SUPER PISSED OFF.


Some of the new force powers in the new movie were really just Plot Device powers. All of them, really.

I do think some of your comment is true. The mythology is thin, and it's dangerous for a new director to add much to it. But there's no damn reason that they need to keep rehashing the exact same plots. I think there's still storytelling potential even without changing the mythology. Any number of new threats could rise that aren't in the form of Creepy Old Magic Emperor. They could have a challenge that doesn't involve dressing up like stormtroopers. Heck, why didn't the Rebels gain any power after Episode VI? Maybe decadence should be the enemy. Show how a benevolent Jedi still struggles with the dark side. Maybe they could have aped Macbeth or The Godfather or something.
   943. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 20, 2018 at 12:51 AM (#5730043)
Show how a benevolent Jedi still struggles with the dark side.
Eh, that didn’t work out too well in the prequels.
   944. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2018 at 01:09 AM (#5730044)
My point is that "repetition of mind tricks and Force ghosts" is not a problem. People love that ####. The writers are not stuck in a corner because of the force mythology. They painted themselves into that corner when they insisted on rehashing the old plots.

Rogue One had actually introduced some new ForceFacts really well. That blind kung fu guy, who had a basically wild, heretical understanding of the force, but also (in my opinion) clearly had natural force potential that had never been molded by a Jedi teacher. He rocked!
   945. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:22 AM (#5730049)
Rogue One had actually introduced some new ForceFacts really well. That blind kung fu guy, who had a basically wild, heretical understanding of the force, but also (in my opinion) clearly had natural force potential that had never been molded by a Jedi teacher. He rocked!


I came away from R1 thinking that it was pretty but dumb, but it's grown in my mind as time passed. If anyone played the old 'X-Wing' computer games before the prequels - it was fun to see that era on screen and taken 'seriously', as it were. Kind of the opposite for Last Jedi, in which I really liked pretty much all the stuff with Luke, but almost everything else felt either ponderous or superfluous. But I've never been as attached to the Star Wars mythology as to other franchises, so I feel free to pick and choose bits I like, giving me permission to enjoy bits ROTJ without actually caring that much.
   946. McCoy Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:55 AM (#5730061)
In RotJ the emperor wanted Luke to kill Vader and Vader wanted Luke to join him so that he and Luke could rule the universe. In all scenarios one of the three had to go.


In terms of plotting Abrams did box them in and I think some of Johnson's plotting was there to break out of that box. Snoke is dead and the new order is in disarray. The third movie is going to have to come up with something different than simply a rehash of RotJ.
   947. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:21 AM (#5730068)
Yes, I was pleased to see Snoke die, both because it was slightly unexpected and because he wasn't much of a character. But one assumes that the third movie will again climax with the dramatic conversion of the Darth Vader character to good. And I'll believe "disarray" when I see it - I hope you're right, but I'm expecting the empire to remain a monolithic evil, even with some confusion at the top.
   948. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:38 AM (#5730073)
The Last Jedi was a very uneven movie obviously, with many of the problems being discussed up thread, but overall I think it had enough good to outweigh the bad. I especially enjoyed Rey and Darth Crybaby and their scenes together (much more than I would have thought prior). That part was new and interesting and worked for me, I also liked Rey and Luke, and then Luke at the end. The casino silliness, dumb space battle, popsicle Leia, and Poe being a massive tool didn't work for me, but whatever.

Rogue One showed you can still make a great Star Wars movie, but man enough with Death Stars, blowing them up, and the force apprentice struggling with temptations of evil. Move on from that. It is a big galaxy, the mythology is kind of cool, but the franchise does feel a little stale.
   949. Nasty Nate Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5730115)

And then you get to the Ewok planet (or moon, I guess), and even more than the Ewoks feeling like a toy ad, what they really feel like to me is a distraction. Their structural purpose in the film is to keep us from realizing that there's not actually anything going on during those scenes they are in. And that's because the best idea the writers could come up with for a big climactic scene was ... just blowing up another Death Star. This is insultingly lazy for a big, long-awaited, eagerly anticipated event movie, but there's a lot of runtime to kill (blowing up the Death Star only takes two actual seconds, after all), so we have to sit through a bunch of argle-bargle about a shield generator and honestly who could possibly give a crap about that?

So we get Ewoks. But complaining about marketing tie-ins really seems beside the point, because even if they were 95% less lame, they'd still only be there to keep us from noticing how little effort the writers actually put into this thing.
But the Ewoks being a distraction from lazy writing is a good thing. It's better than more lazy writing. Maybe it didn't work great, but they were trying something new with the Ewok planet. They had done desert. They had done the ice planet. They had done swamps. So now they were trying forests of the Pacific Northwest.
   950. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:56 AM (#5730128)
so we have to sit through a bunch of argle-bargle about a shield generator and honestly who could possibly give a crap about that?


Oh, me. I mean, not about the shield generator and so on, but big space battles, yeah, sign me up. Just as 'Trek' at its best had fun analogs with Hornblower-era naval battles - a direct inspiration, after all - 'Wars' at its best threw lasers into the capital ship-carrier-fighter-bomber interplay of WW2 naval battles. (Also, of course, a direct inspiration.) I don't know enough about any of the topics to comment more precisely than that, but young me wasn't so interested in the space wizard escapades, which only served to waste time before the next ungainly Y-Wing lurched into view.

I'm not a big John Williams fan, but the escalating chaos of the first part of his 'Battle for Endor' score is really evocative. Capital ships veering out of formation in 3/4 time is good stuff.
   951. Lassus Posted: August 20, 2018 at 11:07 AM (#5730135)
Speaking of indie films, has anyone other than me seen Summer of '84? Caught it a few days ago. It's interesting, because it was kind of a painfully annoying standard stereotypical nostalgia-fest for 96% of the film, but the ending was interesting enough to perhaps make the rest of the film worthwhile. Or maybe it was just nice to see something different even if most of the film didn't really work. It's hard to say. 62% critic, 95% audience score.
   952. jmurph Posted: August 21, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5730890)
Do we need to address the fact that the Eagles Greatest Hits is now (again?) the greatest selling album of all time?
   953. Lassus Posted: August 21, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5730908)
EDIT: removed derailer.

But, screw the Eagles.
   954. jmurph Posted: August 21, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5730910)
No one is innocent in this.
   955. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 21, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5730926)
Do we need to address the fact that the Eagles Greatest Hits is now (again?) the greatest selling album of all time?


It is almost as popular to hate the Eagles as it is to own their music.

While hardly my pick for greatest album of all time (and seriously no greatest collection ever could be), still the Eagles are fine and one of those greatest hits sales is mine. Anyway you prefer Thriller?

From this list I own all but the Bodyguard soundtrack, and even there I will cop to owning the biggest Whiney hit from it (I think from her Greatest Hits). IMO Rumours or Back in Black are the best from that list*, but the others are all fine works.

However, I am sure some random punk album that sold 150 copies is really and truly the absolute album of all time and should have sold the best, except then it would have been a sell out album and thus worthless.

* College me would have voted Dark Side of the Moon the best on the list, easily.
   956. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 21, 2018 at 03:57 PM (#5730938)
Minor bookkeeping note: the Eagles now have the highest-selling album in U.S. history. In overseas sales, the Eagles are relatively small potatoes.
   957. jmurph Posted: August 21, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5730939)
Minor bookkeeping note: the Eagles now have the highest-selling album in U.S. history. In overseas sales, the Eagles are relatively small potatoes.

Well wikipedia says 6th highest selling worldwide. It's Thriller in a walk.
   958. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 21, 2018 at 03:59 PM (#5730941)
Well wikipedia says 6th highest selling worldwide. It's Thriller in a walk.


In a Moon Walk I think you meant.
   959. jmurph Posted: August 21, 2018 at 04:00 PM (#5730942)
Nicely done.
   960. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5730951)
I always thought that Alice in Chains, who I actually like a great deal, were the band that most "post grunge" bands ripped off the most. Creed are probably the poster children for that subgenre.
   961. Morty Causa Posted: August 21, 2018 at 04:20 PM (#5730968)
   962. jmurph Posted: August 21, 2018 at 04:20 PM (#5730969)
Isn't Creed technically STP's fault?
   963. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: August 21, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5730997)
still the Eagles are fine


The Critter Caucus is Dissolved!
   964. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 04:47 PM (#5731000)
If you took everything I hated about rock music, and everything I hated about country music, and everything I hated about Don Henley, you'd have The Eagles.
   965. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 04:50 PM (#5731005)
On a happier note, anyone watching the new Matt Groening animated series on Netflix, "Disenchanted"?
   966. I am going to be Frank Posted: August 21, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5731008)
I hated "The Last Jedi." It's basically a slow chase with a random, useless interlude on the casino planet. The writers and director had all the opportunity to do whatever they want because "The Force Awakens" reset the universe and they made that hunk of garbage. They wasted Laura Dern, Oscar Isaac and Benecio Del Toro on unimportant parts.

I also want to know how the Imperial Army or whatever they call it has destroyed the Republic so easily. Their military commanders are early Union Army level-bad. Attack the last rebel holdout base but allow a bunch of bombers to disable a large capital ship. Have a huge fleet but with only slow capital ships that can't catch up to a ragtag bunch of ships low on fuel. Then to allow one ship to horribly disable your new doomsday weapon. Yet another ground assault with so little air cover that a beat up old freighter is able to distract and pull off all of that air cover. Finally, allow the remnants of the republic escape. At least Hoth had the ion cannon to temporarily disable the blockade.

I didn't even mind "Solo."
   967. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 21, 2018 at 04:57 PM (#5731016)
The Critter Caucus is Dissolved!


The bonds of family can never be broken, or as the great artists sang, "you can check out, but you can never leave."
   968. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: August 21, 2018 at 04:58 PM (#5731021)
If you took everything I hated about rock music, and everything I hated about country music, and everything I hated about Don Henley, you'd have The Eagles.


Ditto, with "everything I hate about self-pitying cocaine-snorting multimillionaires" & "SoCal decadence" (but perhaps I repeat myself?) added for good measure.
   969. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 06:40 PM (#5731158)
But, screw the Eagles.


I hate the ######' Eagles, man!

and everything I hated about Don Henley,


Obligatory

YAYAYAYAYAYAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
   970. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 06:48 PM (#5731170)
On a happier note, anyone watching the new Matt Groening animated series on Netflix, "Disenchanted"?


I don't think I've seen an actual thumbs up review and the trailer I did see seemed pretty crap. Have you watched an episode? Is it worth a watch?
   971. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 06:56 PM (#5731184)
Dammit, I missed #961, Coke to Morty ...
   972. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 07:06 PM (#5731192)
I always thought that Alice in Chains, who I actually like a great deal,


Was just listening to "Dirt" last night. I ####### love that album.

If I could pick, I'd go with Andrew over Layne, but both are deeply missed ...
   973. cardsfanboy Posted: August 21, 2018 at 08:38 PM (#5731254)
On a happier note, anyone watching the new Matt Groening animated series on Netflix, "Disenchanted"?


I've watched the first four episodes so far, and it's mostly a miss. The elf character is basically fry, complete with the love eyes for the main character. The main character/princess is basically a teenage Leela/Bart combo with a heaping dose of Bender added to it and the demon is just bender with a mission to make the Princess make poor decisions. I doubt that there has been one good laugh per episode so far. You do have a remnant of a season long plot going on, and I've read some spoilers which indicate that it does get better as the season progresses, but not sure how much I can continue to watch before I decide it's just not worth it.
   974. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 08:55 PM (#5731259)
On a happier note, anyone watching the new Matt Groening animated series on Netflix, "Disenchanted"?

I don't think I've seen an actual thumbs up review and the trailer I did see seemed pretty crap. Have you watched an episode? Is it worth a watch?


Well...

I love animation as a storytelling medium. I consider myself very fortunate to be living in a golden age of animation, both series and feature films. One thing I’ve realized is that as a general rule it can take me several episodes to warm up to a new series. Even series I grew to absolutely love, like King of the Hill (possibly the best animated series ever) took almost a full season to really connect with me. After the first episode of “Bob’s Burgers” I told a friend it was the most annoying show in television history, and now I have a Tina Belcher keychain. So I’m aware that I need to warm up to the art direction and how the writers use the animation medium to tell their story.

That being said...

I’m 7 episodes into the 10 episode season and it’s....ok. There are some very funny gags and I think conceptually I like the setting (D&D type fantasy) and the central characters (a rebellious alcoholic teenage princess, a naive elf, and a demon ostensibly sent to corrupt her). The art direction is very Futurama-esque which is obviously unsurprising, but I have no issue with it.

But it hasn’t really connected with me yet. I think some of the major recurring characters, like King Zog, are annoying and predictable. I think the limitations and internal logic of the world hasn’t been established yet and that’s key for me. I think the writers are also struggling with the characters and setting and it shows.

But it has potential. I’d say my expectation is that the show will continue to be “ok” and improve somewhat, but will never be a truly brilliant series like Bojack Horseman or King of the Hill or Season 1 Boondocks. But that’s oerfectly fine - I don’t think Futurama or Rick and Morty are on that level either, but they’re fun to watch and occasionally brilliant. That’s good enough for me.
   975. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 22, 2018 at 03:42 AM (#5731423)
1. Man, I think "Rick and Morty" is phenomenal.

2. Thanks, Lassus, for the Watt/Mascis "Maggot Brain" recommendation, which led me to the entire album, which is pretty good! Makes up for the Dinosaur Jr. album Whatever's Cool with Me, which I listened to a month or two ago and have already forgotten.

3. There's some not always obvious namedropping to be had in this Twitter thread, which poses the question "If you could choose one person to have an Oscar, alive or dead, who doesn't have one, who would it be?" Worthy picks abound, but I'll throw in a name I didn't notice on the Twitter thread: Howard Hawks.
   976. Morty Causa Posted: August 22, 2018 at 05:41 AM (#5731427)
If honorary Oscars don't count, Hitchcock should be a prime consideration.

Busby Berkeley never won.

Lubitsch. Like Hawks and Hitchcock, he did get an honorary one.

Among actors/stars: Astaire. Irene Dunne. Jean Arthur. Cary Grant.

   977. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 22, 2018 at 05:53 AM (#5731428)
I think Rick & Morty is funny, I hope I made that clear. I have two main gripes with the show.

First, by making Rick a god, for all intents and purposes, the show basically exists in a world where literally anything can happen, and I think that leads to a lot of lazy writing and cheap gags for easy laughs. It’s the same reason why I could never enjoy “Family Guy”, another popular animated series that seems to exist in a universe where anything can happen without consequence. “Wouldn’t it be wacky if Rick used his super genius powers to turn himself into a pickle and have all sorts of adventures?” That very popular episode ended with a surprisingly poignant scene where a therapist analyzes Rick, and that was strong, but you had to guffaw your way through a wise-cracking pickle cyborg killing everything and everyone in its path to get to it.

I’m not saying it isn’t funny but I do think the lack of boundaries makes the show, like Family Guy and it’s various spinoffs, tend to gravitate towards lazy gags.

Secondly I feel like the show makes a conscious effort to be “edgy” in a way that is overt and, in the words of the beach bum kids from the classic Simpsons episode “Summer of 4’2”, “reeks of effort.” It isn’t wacky enough to have the neighbor kid trapped in the fantasy world Rick made for his daughter as a child, he had to be in there engaging in beastiality, incest, and cannibalism. Because OMG I can’t believe they did that! It’s similar to the way that while I *love* good horror movies, the entire “torture porn* genre that got kicked off with “SAW” left me totally cold. It’s an interesting exercise to see how repulsive you can make a torture scene on screen, I suppose, but it isn’t entertaining to me.

   978. Lassus Posted: August 22, 2018 at 07:52 AM (#5731452)
2. Thanks, Lassus, for the Watt/Mascis "Maggot Brain" recommendation, which led me to the entire album, which is pretty good! Makes up for the Dinosaur Jr. album Whatever's Cool with Me, which I listened to a month or two ago and have already forgotten.

I bought that record on clear blue vinyl the day it was released! I was the picture in the dictionary next to MUSIC HIPSTER that year. Still have it in my incredibly small collection of records.

I've been meaning to respond to your comic strip thing at some point, however. Soon. As in "hopefully".
   979. BDC Posted: August 22, 2018 at 08:19 AM (#5731458)
"If you could choose one person to have an Oscar, alive or dead, who doesn't have one, who would it be?" Worthy picks abound, but I'll throw in a name I didn't notice on the Twitter thread: Howard Hawks


It's a little difficult to remember who never won. From that Twitter thread I note that Greta Garbo never won; I would have thought she did. I also note that not only has Albert Finney never won, but is still alive. I think I wrote Finney out of existence when either Bob Hoskins or Richard Harris or somebody like that died, assuming that Finney must have packed it in at the same time. I also note that Finney purportedly declined a knighthood. Very interesting stuff.

It's tempting to name somebody non-American: Jean-Louis Trintignant, for instance, never nominated. (He is also still alive, though the top Google suggestion for his name is "jean louis trintignant décès" :( But although several Oscars have gone to actors in foreign-language films, it's been such a random thing that you can't really even critique it. Marion Cotillard has an Oscar and Audrey Tautou doesn't, but probably half the voters think they're the same person anyway and so who cares.

I'll go with Sidney Lumet. He was nominated five times (four for directing, once for writing). I think Lumet should have won for The Pawnbroker, a year when he was not even nominated. Robert Wise won Best Director that year for the Sound of Music. For crying out loud.
   980. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: August 22, 2018 at 10:13 AM (#5731539)
Secondly I feel like the show makes a conscious effort to be “edgy” in a way that is overt and, in the words of the beach bum kids from the classic Simpsons episode “Summer of 4’2”, “reeks of effort.


Producers and writers are getting very, very good at having their cake and eating it.

There's a 'Mitchell and Webb' sketch - UK TV - where two TV producers talk about a show which is very clearly 'The Apprentice' - UK edition. They decide to re-tool the show from a fictional first season in which only competent and plausible candidates are competing, and convince themselves that the viewing figures will be a lot higher when you combine the idiots who think that watching idiots compete for a job is in some way reflective of real business acumen, and the above-it-all viewers who watch only so that they can tell everyone else how only idiots would think that the idiot competitors are plausible.

Producer A: "And how do these ironic non-idiot viewers show up in the ratings compared to the idiot viewers?"
Producer B: "The same, my friend. They show up the same."

That 'Rick and Morty' episode, like so many, is a wacky, gratuitously and repetitively hyper-violent action comedy, with self-aware quips and sustained genre deconstruction that manages to also point a finger at a huge inhuman missing part of its main character's psyche, and show how he's able to suffer no consequences thanks to the help of his complicit and dependent daughter, while the young adults in his life know almost instinctively that something's very, very wrong, but have no real ability to alter his or their own course. Covered all the bases.
   981. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 22, 2018 at 11:27 AM (#5731600)
he's able to suffer no consequences thanks to the help of his complicit and dependent daughter,


I thought one of the recurring events was that Rick is able to replace family members either by cloning or importing new ones from alternate universes. There are no consequences because there's nothing his godlike powers can't replicate or recreate. Seymore Skinner can be Armand Tanzarian and nobody cares.
   982. spanx for the memories Posted: August 22, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5731641)
"If you could choose one person to have an Oscar, alive or dead, who doesn't have one, who would it be?"[ /quote]

Actor- Ed Harris,
Actress- Jennifer Jason Leigh
Director- David Fincher
   983. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: August 22, 2018 at 01:59 PM (#5731723)
My selection algorithm still has "Who's Next" as best album. Can't be Greatest Hits, *every* track must be above average, strong sense of cohesion, multiple all-time tracks, other random subjective nonsense.
   984. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: August 22, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5731747)
If honorary Oscars don't count, Hitchcock should be a prime consideration.


Peter O'Toole ... from Wiki:
and holds the record for the most Academy Award nominations for acting without a win.
   985. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: August 22, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5731769)
I thought one of the recurring events was that Rick is able to replace family members either by cloning or importing new ones from alternate universes. There are no consequences because there's nothing his godlike powers can't replicate or recreate. Seymore Skinner can be Armand Tanzarian and nobody cares.


True - I suppose I should have said 'emotional impact'. Rick gets called out by the therapist, agent of mediocrity that she is in his eyes, and his daughter immediately excuses both of them from the therapist's analysis. And suggests booze. Rick clearly cares about members of his family on some level, so they would be the only ones who might be able to get through to him about his choices.

Rick can do anything, but isn't willing to 'put in the work' to become a person who acts in the interests of his family. (Whose lives, in the 3 seasons of R&M, has Rick really improved, apart from arguably his own?) Rick knows it, too - when he thinks he's about to die at the start of season 2, he states it openly. Meanwhile I'd happily call Dan Harmon a genius in his field, but his work relationships - one of which turned into a marriage, which promptly disintegrated - seem to be a sequence of messes. And he knows it; one of the most interesting parts of the documentary 'Harmontown' has Harmon pondering that he's arguably the villain of the piece, and Spencer Crittenden's the hero.

The 'tortured genius' has been a useful meme to justify putting up with an awful lot of crap. It'll be interesting to see if Harmon keeps exploring this in Rick over the next 70 episodes (!), because I'm guessing there's a really large demographic of non-ironic Rick fans who won't enjoy that so much. Maybe a good thing that he locked in such a long deal.
   986. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 22, 2018 at 03:25 PM (#5731790)
My selection algorithm still has "Who's Next" as best album. Can't be Greatest Hits, *every* track must be above average, strong sense of cohesion, multiple all-time tracks, other random subjective nonsense.


I first bought the album in the early 90s having vaguely heard it was good and was floored by how great an album it was. It is inner circle no doubt.
   987. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: August 22, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5731801)
My selection algorithm still has "Who's Next" as best album. Can't be Greatest Hits, *every* track must be above average, strong sense of cohesion, multiple all-time tracks, other random subjective nonsense.


Pretty sure I traded in my copy (probably along with Quadrophenia) after moving to Phoenix in 8/81 & discovering the existence of used vinyl stores with healthy punk stock. (Most of my Dylans met the same fate.) As opposed to my copy of Tommy, which I sold a couple of years before that for I think $5 to a Mormon missionary who visited my gf & I at our apartment & spied it in my stack of records.

I did like Won't Get Fooled Again enough as a kid to buy the 7" when it was in the charts, though. With a very limited allowance (it might've jumped to $1 from 50 cents by junior high), I had to really think a lot of a record to shell out money for a copy.

   988. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: August 22, 2018 at 04:00 PM (#5731814)
My selection algorithm still has "Who's Next" as best album. Can't be Greatest Hits, *every* track must be above average, strong sense of cohesion, multiple all-time tracks, other random subjective nonsense.


When they released the remastered version of Who's Next in 1995 with the bonus tracks, I was really happy. There are like 5 previously unreleased bonus tracks on that release that were fantastic.

1) the original version of Pure and Easy
2) Water
3) I Don't Even Know Myself
4) Baby Don't You Do It
5) Naked Eye

I am usually meh on bonus tracks but all of these were winners.
   989. Morty Causa Posted: August 22, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5731815)
Peter O'Toole ... from Wiki:

and holds the record for the most Academy Award nominations for acting without a win.


Edward G. Robinson was never nominated for a competitive award. That's truly mindboggling.
   990. BDC Posted: August 22, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5731816)
*every* track must be above average


If only the Beatles had included Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane on Sergeant Pepper, instead of Good Morning Good Morning, When I'm Sixty-Four, and that piece of Indian-restaurant music by George Harrison :(
   991. chisoxcollector Posted: August 22, 2018 at 04:10 PM (#5731821)
If you could choose one person to have an Oscar, alive or dead, who doesn't have one, who would it be


Actor - Either Cary Grant or Johnny Depp
Actress - Glenn Close
Director - Alfred Hitchcock

Other than Depp, these are probably pretty cliché choices.
   992. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: August 22, 2018 at 04:48 PM (#5731845)
For fans of The Who that haven't seen this before, enjoy. Or even if you have...
   993. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: August 22, 2018 at 05:13 PM (#5731854)
I had to really think a lot of a record to shell out money for a copy.


... which distinction, I should add, was accorded the likes of "Knock Three Times" by Dawn & "Speak to the Sky" by Rick Springfield, among others. I cannot be shamed.
   994. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 22, 2018 at 06:04 PM (#5731874)
Also never nominated for any Oscar:

Paul Schrader (screenwriter, "Taxi Driver," "Raging Bull")
Joseph Cotten ("The Third Man," "Shadow of a Doubt")
Jean-Luc Godard (director, "Pierrot le Fou," "Breathless")
Peter Lorre ("The Maltese Falcon," "M")
Harold Ramis (screenwriter, "Groundhog Day," "Ghostbusters")
Sergio Leone (director, "Once Upon a Time in the West," "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly")
Myrna Loy ("The Best Years of Our Lives," "The Thin Man")
The Wachowskis (directors, "The Matrix," "Cloud Atlas")
W.C. Fields (screenwriter, "It's a Gift," "The Bank Dick")
Alan Rickman ("Die Hard," "Harry Potter")
Fritz Lang (director, "M," "The Big Heat")
Fred MacMurray ("Double Indemnity," "The Apartment")
Christopher Nolan (director, "Memento," "The Dark Knight")
Groucho Marx ("Duck Soup," "Horse Feathers")
Martin Sheen ("Apocalypse Now," "Badlands")
Spike Lee (director, "Do the Right Thing," "25th Hour")
Charles Lederer (screenwriter, "His Girl Friday," "The Thing")
Zucker/Abrahams/Zucker ("Airplane!", "The Naked Gun")
Buster Keaton ("Steamboat Bill Jr," "The Cameraman")
Joel McCrea ("The Palm Beach Story,""Sullivan's Travels")
Tim Burton (director, "Ed Wood," "Sweeney Todd")
   995. Baldrick Posted: August 22, 2018 at 06:05 PM (#5731875)
I like When I'm Sixty-Four and Within You Without You a lot, but I can see the argument for subbing them out if you could. I don't agree with the argument, but I can see it.

But what the heck is wrong with Good Morning Good Morning?! It isn't Penny Lane or Strawberry Fields, sure, but it's got a solid WAA, even compared to the rest of their catalogue.
   996. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: August 22, 2018 at 06:11 PM (#5731877)
But what the heck is wrong with Good Morning Good Morning?!


Paul's blistering guitar solo justifies its existence IMO. As great as Strawberry Fields/Penny Lane are, I like that they are not on the album. That single is like a mini-album.

When I'm 64 is sorta weak, but Within You Without You is incredible. Respect your opinion though for sure. :)
   997. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 22, 2018 at 06:16 PM (#5731880)
Which album has Daydream Believer on it? I can never find it.
   998. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: August 22, 2018 at 06:20 PM (#5731882)
#994 That list boggles my mind ... there are at *least* TEN films in there that are in my top 50.
   999. Zonk is a Doorknob Whisperer Posted: August 22, 2018 at 06:45 PM (#5731893)
1. Man, I think "Rick and Morty" is phenomenal.


Finally.

A cultural icon where Gonfalon doesn't make me want to carve him up with a spoon!

BTW, I just saw that Big Bang Theory will be finally ending its run next year... IIRC, this was supposed to give the OTC a cause for celebration! Or - maybe it's dread that this will only hasten its L&O-style takeover of cable syndication?
   1000. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 22, 2018 at 06:53 PM (#5731895)
#994 That list boggles my mind ... there are at *least* TEN films in there that are in my top 50.


That's a list of individual shutouts. Two of the movie mentions won Best Picture, and another three were nominated.
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