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Tuesday, December 04, 2018

OT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (December 2018)

The deep lesson of Star Wars is that the Empire is good.

It’s a difficult leap to make—embracing Darth Vader and the Emperor over the plucky and attractive Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia—but a careful examination of the facts, sorted apart from Lucas’s off-the-shelf moral cues, makes a quite convincing case.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 04, 2018 at 07:48 AM | 612 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movies, music, off-topic, television, whatever else belongs under the rubric of 'popular culture'

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   1. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 04, 2018 at 01:41 AM (#5793643)
Better late than never.
   2. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2018 at 07:52 AM (#5793649)
New Captain Marvel trailer. Avengers: Not Actually Dead alleged for tomorrow.

Usual complaints in io9 comments from the nerds, too much CGI, underwhelming; it's basically like setting your clock. I AM a little worried it won't do well, I think my main concern is simply the saturation effect, but I think it was pretty brilliant to release it so close to Infinity War: Untitled, it almost guarantees box office at this point.

   3. McCoy Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:06 AM (#5793661)
Is the writer for the article in the link also a Nazi apologist? That was just about the worst reasoned contra think piece about pop culture I have ever read.

Sure sure the Empire destroyed a planet and killed Luke's family but compared to what could happen that was benign. Sure, sure. . .
   4. Nasty Nate Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:23 AM (#5793666)
I only read the A Song of Ice and Fire books once, but what were Robb Stark's military goals? I know he wanted to rescue his father and sisters and to achieve some measure of revenge, but what would his army have done? I can think of some possibilities, but was it ever made explicit?
   5. McCoy Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:33 AM (#5793671)
Robb for the most part was a 15 year old kid thrust into circumstances as a totem for the North. Robb wanted justice for his father, protection for his family along with his family keeping their power. The Northern lords named him King of the North which he basically had to become otherwise he's just an outlaw rebel in which case all the agreements and familial pacts are severed in the North. His military goals was to basically beat the Lannisters so that the North could become its own kingdom. Up until Robb dies he made no mention nor made any moves that would lead one to thing he wanted to rule all of Westeros.
   6. Nasty Nate Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:41 AM (#5793678)
His military goals was to basically beat the Lannisters so that the North could become its own kingdom.
So if he had won some battles in the Riverlands and West, he would have turned his army around and solidified defenses at the new border, and let the Baratheons take care of Joffrey?
   7. McCoy Posted: December 04, 2018 at 09:55 AM (#5793687)
He wanted his sisters back so he wasn't going to stop until he got that. The North and Robb probably wouldn't have stopped without a few Lannister heads on a spike. I'm thinking they would have wanted Tywin, Tyrion, Jaime, and Joffrey dead. Cersei probably would be allowed to go be in a convent. At the time of his murder the situation is basically murky for him. He's lost Winterfell, the Karstarks have mutinied, and the Greyjoy are sacking his coast so he's planning on turning inwards and shoring up his hold on the North.

The plan before this was for him to attack the Lannister lands and keep Tywin and his forces occupied while the Baratheons (ultimately Stannis) takes King's Landing. If this had happened the Lannisters would be finished and Robb would be king of the North and Riverrun. That was what was in his head but of course Stannis wasn't going to let Robb keep what he thought was rightfully the crown's. Once Tywin beats Edmure and then marches back and saves King's Landing there is no real plan articulated to us other than head back North and consolidate his power.
   8. Nasty Nate Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:27 AM (#5793704)
Thanks. That seems right.
   9. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5793707)
Didn't realize that Robb was only 15. Might have made him a more compelling character in the show.
   10. Nasty Nate Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:39 AM (#5793709)
For practical reasons, they had to age up most of the cast. I think book Ned Stark was in his late thirties.
   11. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5793712)
Oh lord, more Game of Thrones? Can't you all please go back to telling me how ridiculous you think my views about music are?
   12. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5793713)
What's the practical reason for aging Robb? The aging of the younger actors seems to have worked out fine.
   13. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5793715)
Can't you all please go back to telling me how ridiculous you think my views about music are?


Just started looking into ukulele lessons for my daughter.
   14. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5793718)
Just started looking into ukulele lessons for my daughter.
One of these days I'm going to come to your restaurant and start sending dish after dish back because I don't like the texture.
   15. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5793720)
The customer is always right!
   16. McCoy Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5793721)
What's the practical reason for aging Robb? The aging of the younger actors seems to have worked out fine.

Well, there is a lot of sex and rape in the books. Not really going to fly trying to depict a 13 year old Dany getting raped on her wedding night. Dany has a lot of sex in the books.

George had planned to start the series with the elder family members starting everything in motion, then being removed from the board and then having 5 years pass to see what the children have been up to. That of course proved impracticable.

The books basically stop caring about their ages relatively quickly despite these kids being major power players, making huge decisions, and being capable of some truly astounding things. They are all basically Mary Sues. George does tend to give them a naive view of the world though. They all think their dreams and plans will come true simply because they want them to. While the real schemers who get things done are shown to actively be working towards accomplishing their goals. The kids generally just ask, demand, or expect things to happen the way they want.
   17. McCoy Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5793726)
Oh lord, more Game of Thrones? Can't you all please go back to telling me how ridiculous you think my views about music are?

Hey, I tried getting a conversation about Star Wars going.
   18. Nasty Nate Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5793727)
What's the practical reason for aging Robb? The aging of the younger actors seems to have worked out fine.
If he was 15 when they started filming, he would look totally different a few years later despite his character supposedly only aging a few months.

Also, I would tend to disagree about the younger actors. It hasn't been a big problem, but the younger Stark boys actors have aged too fast for their characters, and they've had to use multiple actors for the younger 2 Lannister kids.
   19. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 10:56 AM (#5793728)
Also, I would tend to disagree about the younger actors. It hasn't been a big problem, but the younger Stark boys actors have aged too fast for their characters, and they've had to use multiple actors for the younger 2 Lannister kids.

Well, it hasn't bothered this casual fan of the show.
   20. Nasty Nate Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5793731)
Well, it hasn't bothered this casual fan of the show.
Sure, but you can see why the problem would have probably been worse if involving Robb and Danaerys.
   21. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:08 AM (#5793733)
I think the sex & rape aspect of it is more persuasive.
   22. Howie Menckel Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5793737)
I am kind of amazed at the popularity of a TV show where rape apparently is a common theme.

#imnotjudging
   23. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5793738)
"Common" is an oversell.
   24. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5793741)
I am kind of amazed at the popularity of a TV show where rape apparently is a common theme.


Law & Order SVU has done about 450 episodes about rape. Next year it will apparently pass original Law & Order and Gunsmoke to be the second longest-running fictional primetime show.
   25. Dale Sams Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5793749)
of course Stannis wasn't going to let Robb keep what he thought was rightfully the crown's


Stannis considered him a traitor and one could argue that Stannis actually killed him with magic.

but a relatively benign (dictatorship) one, like Pinochet.


Good God.
   26. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5793750)
I'm trying to find the GoT rape & murder totals, VICE did a tally that is utterly impossible to navigate or summarize and I want to drop the whole team of them over the Wall.
   27. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5793751)
they've had to use multiple actors for the younger 2 Lannister kids
And Dean-Charles Chapman got to play two different dead Lannister kids!
   28. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:35 AM (#5793752)
Dean-Charles is a name? Yuck.
   29. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5793753)
Maybe this is just me being a little bit RDP-like, but I cannot for the life of me see why people get so invested in fictional TV shows. I'm sure some of them are very well done, but the amount of time and energy people spend watching, re-watching, discussing obsessively, etc. is baffling. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, I just don't get it at all.
   30. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5793756)
Cause it's fun.

I'm not obsessive about any show - in fact GoT is just about the only one I care about right now, and as stated I'm a very casual fan - but I 100% get the appeal of binge-watching and of gabbing about it for hours on end.
   31. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5793757)
Some years ago A.O. Scott had a throwaway line saying that popular contemporary movies are mostly like Elizabethan plays -- everything is either a revenge tragedy or a romantic comedy. Revenge tragedies are usually about revenging a rape or a murder, so a lot of movies (and TV shows and books and etc.) need a rape and/or a murder to have any sort of plot. It's gross but it's how it is.

(Also, once Lucas introduced midichlorians and turned the Jedi into a hereditary race of übermenschen then of course they look like Nazis. This doesn't necessarily make the Empire the good guys, however -- if Yoda is Hitler there's no reason that Palpatine can't be Stalin.)
   32. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:44 AM (#5793758)
Elroy, you should have seen the online forum nerdathon 10 years ago over Battlestar Galactica. It wasn't at the volume or popularity level of GoT, but it might possibly have been even more batshit.
   33. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:47 AM (#5793759)
if Yoda is Hitler
I can't wait to see the new Halloween costumes for the Trumpkin kids.
   34. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5793763)
Hey, I tried getting a conversation about Star Wars going.


I saw Solo the other night for the first time, and I dare say, I liked it. Not my favorite but it was far better than the most recent trilogy episode. And not being a complete Star Wars nerd, I was completely flummoxed by the appearance of Maul at the end.
   35. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5793765)
The drummer in my band subbed out of our annual Halloween show because one of our friends was having a GoT-themed party and he absolutely had to go, to wear the whatever GoT character costume his wife had made for him.
   36. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5793767)
I saw Solo the other night for the first time, and I dare say, I liked it. Not my favorite but it was far better than the most recent trilogy episode. And not being a complete Star Wars nerd, I was completely flummoxed by the appearance of Maul at the end.
I saw it on a plane a couple months ago, and I thought it was OK in that context. Fine enough way to spend a couple hours when you're a captive audience anyway.

I liked The Last Jedi better though, probably just because I like to see Luke Skywalker being Luke Skywalker. My Star Wars fandom is like every college student's Bob Marley fandom - I like the Greatest Hits album. I only watched two out of the three prequels and don't remember much about them other than that the first one was the worst thing ever in the history of things, and the third one was really dark and kinda maybe OK (saw them in the theater, haven't watched since). So all the intricacies of reintroducing characters from those are lost on me.
   37. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2018 at 11:59 AM (#5793772)
Not my favorite but it was far better than the most recent trilogy episode.

Beaten to it, but I'll go to my grave not understanding the widespread and intense online dislike for Last Jedi. (I also liked Solo, but it was nowhere near as engaging.)
   38. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5793774)
I disliked The Last Jedi. It wasn't flamboyantly awful like the prequels, but it just kind of sucked.
   39. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 04, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5793775)
but I'll go to my grave not understanding the widespread and intense online dislike for Last Jedi.


It was boring, which is the gravest sin a film can make. For the first time ever, I found myself thinking "When is this going to end?" I wasn't going to walk out, I've never done that, but it was one of the few times I considered it. It wasn't as bad as Episodes 1 and 2, but it ranks below all others IMO.
   40. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 12:06 PM (#5793777)
Although I enjoy these fictional worlds and enjoy talking about them, I'd draw a line between myself and the people that take these things seriously. Eg, anyone that will get angry arguing whether or not something is "canon." It's always light-hearted for me, a goof, a bit of escapism.
   41. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 12:15 PM (#5793781)
Sure sure the Empire destroyed a planet and killed Luke's family but compared to what could happen that was benign.
Isn't that pretty much the same rationale we used for Hiroshima and Nagasaki? [ducks]
   42. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5793783)
I'd draw a line between myself and the people that take these things seriously.

I think the archives are gone, but the Television Without Pity reviews for BSG were written by a Justin (Or... Jacob? I have to check my email.) who was so crazy serious he inspired an almost cult-like following. I was, in fact, booted off the site because I ask him if maybe he was taking things too seriously. I appealed to the main admin, SARS, to reinstate me, which she did.
   43. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 12:22 PM (#5793785)
I used to work with a Television Without Pity writer - I believe she did the Top Chef write-ups. Some reality show.
   44. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5793789)
There was one here, a primate who had started to do the GoT recaps before the site disintegrated.
   45. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: December 04, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5793793)
Hey, I tried getting a conversation about Star Wars going.


Also from the lede: is Mark Hamill considered attractive?

   46. Howie Menckel Posted: December 04, 2018 at 01:06 PM (#5793799)
"Law & Order SVU has done about 450 episodes about rape."

I've never seen Game of Thrones, but I know on Law and Order the plot seems to follow the aftermath of violence, not showing a simulation of a rape on-screen. is that what Thrones does?
   47. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5793808)
Sometimes, yes. It's a pretty brutal show. I don't know how many actual rapes there have been, but there is plenty of gore and torture and such. One poor fellow gets his schlong cut off.
   48. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 01:36 PM (#5793820)
It's a pretty brutal show. I don't know how many actual rapes there have been, but there is plenty of gore and torture and such. One poor fellow gets his schlong cut off.
That sure does sound like something enjoyable to watch in my free time.
   49. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2018 at 01:48 PM (#5793825)
I don't know how many actual rapes there have been, but there is plenty of gore and torture and such. One poor fellow gets his schlong cut off.

Yeah, no. Just no.
   50. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: December 04, 2018 at 01:51 PM (#5793829)
I saw Actor Martinez last night, a movie about an actor named Arthur Martinez who hires two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about how an actor named Arthur Martinez hired two indie directors (Nathan Silver and Mike Ott, playing themselves) to make a movie about him.
   51. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: December 04, 2018 at 01:53 PM (#5793830)
45- Mark Hamill was exceptionally pretty in 1977.
   52. Dr. Vaux Posted: December 04, 2018 at 01:53 PM (#5793831)
(Also, once Lucas introduced midichlorians and turned the Jedi into a hereditary race of übermenschen then of course they look like Nazis. This doesn't necessarily make the Empire the good guys, however -- if Yoda is Hitler there's no reason that Palpatine can't be Stalin.)


I've only seen it once, but to the extent that I thought anything (probably more than Lucas thought about it, I suppose, since I go out on the limb of characterizing it as thought), I thought the midichlorians were supposed to be something that everyone had, but that you could learn to harness by shutting out negative thoughts.

Of course, there is an extent to which abilities are inherited, so the idea that inheriting certain abilities makes people seem like Nazis makes everyone seem like a Nazi. I'm glad I don't live in a world like that.

It's pretty obvious from everything about the films, though, that the empire is supposed to be totalitarian and oppressive of non-humans, while the rebellion is democratic and inclusive.
   53. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:01 PM (#5793836)
I've never seen Game of Thrones, but I know on Law and Order the plot seems to follow the aftermath of violence, not showing a simulation of a rape on-screen. is that what Thrones does?

Sometimes, yes. It's a pretty brutal show. I don't know how many actual rapes there have been, but there is plenty of gore and torture and such. One poor fellow gets his schlong cut off.
Well, that particular scene was implied rather than explicit. That being said, there is plenty of graphic throat-cuttings and disembowlings that are shown in full. It's not for watching during dinner.

There's some nudity, not as much as there used to be, and the rare graphic sex is implied as well.
   54. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5793839)
That sure does sound like something enjoyable to watch in my free time.


I'll take my fantastical de-schlongings, you can keep your thundering anthemic meditations on the plight of the working class.
   55. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5793842)
It's pretty obvious from everything about the films, though, that the empire is supposed to be totalitarian and oppressive of non-humans, while the rebellion is democratic and inclusive.

This was definitely true of the original trilogy (Episodes 4 through 6.) By the time the Prequels (Episodes 1 through 3) came around two decades later, Lucas’s politics had matured and become much more cynical, recognizing that the seeds of fascism were already planted in the Republic, that all liberal democracies ultimately descend into barbarism, there is no escape.
   56. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:12 PM (#5793843)
I saw Actor Martinez last night,
From your description, I'm surprised it's already over. Also, authorities believe marijuana was involved in development meetings.
   57. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5793846)
the rare graphic sex is implied as well.
How does one imply graphic sex?
   58. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:19 PM (#5793847)
56- What sucks is that Nathan Silver and Mike Ott are legitimately two of my favorite directors working today. To see them join forces for that masturbatory, navel-gazing exercise was really disappointing.
   59. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:23 PM (#5793848)
If you're looking at your navel while masturbating, you're doing it wrong.
   60. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:26 PM (#5793850)
That being said, there is plenty of graphic throat-cuttings and disembowlings that are shown in full.


Not to mention having molten gold poured over a guy's head.
   61. McCoy Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5793851)
I think I’m on the same page as post 38 and Solo was just a stupid Easter egg hunt with bad acting by its two leads. Woody was quite good in it and Zoe was wasted in the movie. Absolutely no chemistry between solo and Emilia Clarke. I’m never really got the Glover love. Was good as a side character but wasn’t thisnblow you character. Not quite like captain phasma who got all the hype and then laid a giant turd.
   62. McCoy Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:31 PM (#5793854)
The books are much more graphic than the show. As others have mentioned since season 1 they have toned down the nudity and sex. I think having Emilia Clarke say no to the nudity kind of curtailed it. As she gets laid all the time in the books. I think Jon snow would have a scene with “you know nothing” and Arya I think mingled with whores but that was about it.
   63. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:34 PM (#5793857)
How does one imply graphic sex?

By talking about Tumblr, which was just shuttered.



But, seriously, well done.
   64. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:34 PM (#5793858)
Zoe?
   65. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:37 PM (#5793859)
Woody was quite good in it

Woody was basically himself. Even the kid who played Solo made legitimate, occasionally successful attempts to act, which was more than Harrelson did.
   66. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:38 PM (#5793861)
Zoe?

Yeah, dude, that was Thandie Newton.
   67. McCoy Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:39 PM (#5793862)
Well, whatever. Everyone in Hollywood looks alike.
   68. Hysterical & Useless Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:41 PM (#5793863)
If you're looking at your navel while masturbating, you're doing it wrong.


You haven't seen my navel.

And no, you never will.
   69. McCoy Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:41 PM (#5793864)
And woody was still better. Many years ago I met Harrison Ford and I realized that Harrison doesn’t act. He’s just himself and people happen to film it. Doesn’t change that he was more interesting to watch on screen than others trying to act.
   70. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:41 PM (#5793866)
Yeah, dude, that was Thandie Newton.


I figured that was who he was talking about, and thinking it was a cryptic reference to a famous Zoe she had played before, wasted 5 minutes looking through her IMDB filmography.
   71. McCoy Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5793868)
I thought it might have been Zoe Saldana but I figured it might not be her so I just went with Zoe.
   72. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:48 PM (#5793869)
Still waiting for the Ray/McCoy film review podcast.
   73. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 04, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5793873)
I don't get the criticism that so and so actor was wasted because they played a character who died part way through. Was Alec Guiness wasted because his character died halfway through A New Hope? Was Christopher Lee wasted because his character died at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith?
   74. McCoy Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5793879)
yes.
   75. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5793880)
Was Christopher Lee wasted because his character died at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith?

Yes. Yes he was.
   76. Hysterical & Useless Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5793881)
Lassus, I just finished reading the 1st of the Iain Banks "Culture" novels. Very different from the types of things I usually read, but definitely want to read more. Unfortunately, none of my libraries have all of the series in e-book format, so I have a hold on the 2nd book (a for real physical book) 2 places. While waiting for that, I'm reading Jennifer Egan's A Visit from the Goon Squad, Deborah Levy's Hot Milk (read her Swimming Home a few weeks ago, found it compelling), and Thomas Berger's Crazy in Berlin (his first novel).



   77. McCoy Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:07 PM (#5793882)
Allow me to elaborate. You had a dead bloating manatee carcass as your male lead and a cardboard cutout for a female lead. You then had an actress who could actually breathe life into her character and have it be an interesting thing to watch on screen given virtually no screen time, no character development/motivation/arc. That's a waste of talent. Give Emilia Clarke the three minutes of screen time and 4 lines of dialogue and give Thandie Emilia's old role. The movie would have been far better for it.
   78. Hysterical & Useless Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:08 PM (#5793883)
Getting to die on stage/on screen is a HUGE turn-on for an actor. I was in a show once where the writer/director had my character dying off-stage. I said, please, no, it's GOTTA be on-stage! So he re-wrote it for me.

The theatre was redolent with the smell of ham!
   79. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:16 PM (#5793885)
Of course, there is an extent to which abilities are inherited, so the idea that inheriting certain abilities makes people seem like Nazis makes everyone seem like a Nazi. I'm glad I don't live in a world like that.
The problem in the movies isn't that there are inherited abilities, the problem is that there is a ruling elite that is defined by its inherited superpowers. That's why I used the term "übermenschen" to refer to the Jedi. They're a Nietzschean wet dream.

(Of course, maybe you're right and everyone has midichlorians and I'm just remembering the prequels wrong. I spent very little time with them, which was much more time than they deserved.)
   80. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5793889)
I’ve been reading a collection of Tolstoi’s short stories. You know, he was pretty good at that fiction thing, I wonder if he stuck with it.

I also found a real doorstop of a book titled “Great Modern Drama” for $4 at a thrift store. It has 50 complete plays, from Ibsen to Ionesco (or, 1880s to 1960s), and surprisingly few that I had read before. I’m trying to knock out a new one each night.

Another bounty from that thrift store trip was CS Lewis’s autobiography “Surprised by Joy”; he might be my single favorite writer at the moment, so I’m looking forward to it.
   81. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5793890)
(Oh and I also bought the Duplass Brothers’ early no-budget horror-comedy BAGHEAD; however, when I went to watch it last night I opened the box to discover....nothing! It was just an empty box! Serves me right for not checking in the store!

Perhaps it’s a sign.)
   82. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:29 PM (#5793891)
Was Christopher Lee wasted because his character died at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith?

Yes. Yes he was.


Then how would you have written it? Cast a different actor to play Dooku in the movie? Both movies? Have Dooku die offscreen and never appear? Aniken killing Dooku was pivotal for his descent into the dark side, and had to be shown onscreen, and relatively early in the movie.
   83. Baldrick Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:40 PM (#5793895)
Lassus, I just finished reading the 1st of the Iain Banks "Culture" novels. Very different from the types of things I usually read, but definitely want to read more. Unfortunately, none of my libraries have all of the series in e-book format, so I have a hold on the 2nd book (a for real physical book) 2 places. While waiting for that, I'm reading Jennifer Egan's A Visit from the Goon Squad, Deborah Levy's Hot Milk (read her Swimming Home a few weeks ago, found it compelling), and Thomas Berger's Crazy in Berlin (his first novel).

If it makes a difference, the Culture novels are all stand-alone and can really be read in any order.

I had a lot of friends who loved Goon Squad but I really really didn't when I eventually read it. I think it's basically well-written, and a few of the stories felt a little compelling, but I mostly just hated everyone and wanted them to go very far away.
   84. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:47 PM (#5793900)
Can I share a story about Episode 3? Ok so General Grievous was the new villain in that, and there were lots of actors clamoring for the opportunity to voice him, but Lucas finally went with the great Gary Oldman.

But....one of Oldman’s movies needed him for reshoots, so, on the day he was to record his Star Wars lines he was unavailable, and so asked to reschedule.

Lucas was having none of that. So to replace Gary Oldman he got.....Matthew Wood. And who’s Matthew Wood? Why...he was just a guy who worked in the sound department for Lucas. So, yep. They replaced Gary Oldman with a guy who had no experience whatsoever, he just happened to be in the room at the time.

It’s....possible Lucas’s heart was no longer fully in it at that point, I’m saying.
   85. The Good Face Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5793905)
If it makes a difference, the Culture novels are all stand-alone and can really be read in any order.


There are some that are perhaps more useful to read before others in terms of easter eggs and continuity and whatnot, but it really doesn't matter all that much.
   86. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5793907)
Lassus, I just finished reading the 1st of the Iain Banks "Culture" novels. Very different from the types of things I usually read, but definitely want to read more. Unfortunately, none of my libraries have all of the series in e-book format, so I have a hold on the 2nd book (a for real physical book) 2 places.

Baldrick's right, they can be read in any order, but.... I always think the order the author wrote them in is simply the way it should be done. There's subconscious growth in the style, the reveals, it always helps me feel like I understand the intent better and can grow with the author.

PM me at orlandolassus at yahoo and I'll lend you whatever you want via post as you finish each. I have all of them, even a couple you might not ever get via ebook or inter-library.

EDIT: And what Good Face said.
   87. Hysterical & Useless Posted: December 04, 2018 at 03:59 PM (#5793908)
the Culture novels are all stand-alone and can really be read in any order.


Huh, thanks for that, Baldrick. So maybe when I'm back down to only 2 books going at once I'll see which of the others I can find.
   88. Baldrick Posted: December 04, 2018 at 04:04 PM (#5793910)
Huh, thanks for that, Baldrick. So maybe when I'm back down to only 2 books going at once I'll see which of the others I can find.

Yeah, I do agree with Lassus, though, that there is a case to be made for going in the publication order.
   89. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5793912)
Over five years since Banks is gone. Jesus, that sucks.
   90. Hysterical & Useless Posted: December 04, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5793926)
PM me at orlandolassus at yahoo and I'll lend you whatever you want via post as you finish each


Most kind of you, sir!


there is a case to be made for going in the publication order


I often do that even with books that aren't part of a series. Writers change over time, I find it interesting to see the changes.
   91. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2018 at 05:36 PM (#5793953)
Lucas was having none of that. So to replace Gary Oldman he got.....Matthew Wood. And who’s Matthew Wood? Why...he was just a guy who worked in the sound department for Lucas. So, yep. They replaced Gary Oldman with a guy who had no experience whatsoever, he just happened to be in the room at the time.


I'm really thankful for this anecdote. Exactly one time in my life I've gone to a comics convention, in SF. It's not really my scene, but I have a nerdy side and I'll try anything once. There was this whole pavilion of minor celebrities that were available to take photos and sign autographs. It was kind of a sad scene, to be honest. For example, the actor that plays the stormtrooper that gets Jedi mind-tricked by Obi Wan was there. (Major celebrities, such as Carrie Fisher, were at a big stage at scheduled times, not just sitting there all day.) I got to shake hands with Richard Kiel, who seemed bewildered that I didn't want to pay for an autograph. Anyway, the single largest crowd in this area was around the Matthew Wood booth, which I found totally unbelievable - who would care about this chump, that voices a single character from one of the awful prequel movies? Your story makes it even more ridiculous.
   92. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2018 at 05:52 PM (#5793961)
Allow me to play the hipster role I so decry:

I used to go to comic-book conventions when they were actually about COMIC BOOKS. I haven't been to one in about 25 years. My mom actually took me for my birthday to the 1983 CREATION CON in NYC. We also saw Cats!
   93. McCoy Posted: December 04, 2018 at 06:06 PM (#5793968)
I have yet to go to any kind of hobby convention. Been to a few trade shows and traveling hobby markets though. The hobby one was for toy soldiers back in the mid 80’s.
   94. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: December 04, 2018 at 06:11 PM (#5793973)
I used to go to comic-book conventions when they were actually about COMIC BOOKS. I haven't been to one in about 25 years. My mom actually took me for my birthday to the 1983 CREATION CON in NYC. We also saw Cats!


Never been to a comics con; the last sf con I went to was a one-shot (AFAIK) in Slidell, La., in mid-'89, though officially I was covering it for the paper there. I interviewed Harry Harrison; he bought me a beer.* Also, someone in the huckster room insisted that I was the artist J.K. Potter, who presumably I resemble(d).

I did drop by the consuite at one of the last Roc*Kons in Little Rock around 1999 after my night city editor shift, maybe 4 blocks from the hotel. I'd been to the 2nd through 5th ones some 2 decades earlier.

Only other con whose doors I've darkened was one afernoon & night of the WorldCon in New Orleans in 1988, held right after we moved to Slidell. Highlight was seeing L. Sprague de Camp (pretty sure it was him; I didn't say anything) in a hallway.

*Which of course was very unethical of me.
   95. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 04, 2018 at 07:18 PM (#5793997)
One poor fellow gets his schlong cut off.


Enough about "Top Chef."
   96. Dale Sams Posted: December 04, 2018 at 07:23 PM (#5793999)
Getting to die on stage/on screen is a HUGE turn-on for an actor. I was in a show once where the writer/director had my character dying off-stage. I said, please, no, it's GOTTA be on-stage! So he re-wrote it for me.

The theatre was redolent with the smell of ham!



I did a show once where there was supposed to be a pseudo western shootout on stage...and the director was saying "Ok you guys have finger guns and..." I said "Dude. Are you ever going to get to direct a western shootout again?? Let's do it right"

He accomodated me and yea verily there was much ham.
   97. GGC Posted: December 04, 2018 at 08:00 PM (#5794007)
I'm not a big Star Wars guy, but I listened to some book about it a few years ago and almost wound up convinced that the stormtroopers were the unsung heros of the movies. This was my theory and not the book's. Lucas worked on Apocalypse Now and directed American Graffiti. Were Toad from a distant galaxy a long time ago, he would've been a stormtrooper instead of going MIA in SE Asia.

It just occurred to me that maybe there should be something in the Star Wars Universe about Empire teenagers cruising around in podracers.
   98. Greg K Posted: December 04, 2018 at 08:03 PM (#5794008)
I used to go to comic-book conventions when they were actually about COMIC BOOKS. I haven't been to one in about 25 years. My mom actually took me for my birthday to the 1983 CREATION CON in NYC. We also saw Cats!

My parents took my brother and I to a Star Trek convention some place in the States when we were kids, maybe Washington? To clarify, they didn't take us to Washington for a Star Trek convention...we were on a road trip vacation and there happened to be one there.

I remember it being a bit of a let down (I think Marina Sirtis was the headliner). Though my brother did get a Klingon-English dictionary that provided endless fun in the back seat. I loved watching TNG (and still do), but I just found walking around TNG-themed convention centre a bit dull.

A lot of people I know go to the big nerd convention in Toronto every year. They get awfully excited about it, but I don't think it's for me. My brother goes every year and plays about 30 hours of DnD with strangers over the course of the weekend, which really wouldn't be for me.
   99. GGC Posted: December 04, 2018 at 08:18 PM (#5794011)
I've been to SABR. WRT trade shows, I once went to Papermania in Hartford and am thinking about going back there this January.
   100. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: December 04, 2018 at 08:54 PM (#5794015)
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