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Saturday, June 01, 2019

OT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (June 2019)

The 2018-19 TV season is history, so here’s [Deadline’s] annual list of summer premiere dates for new series and new seasons of returning shows. It covers hundreds of broadcast, cable and streaming series bowing from mid-May through August in various dayparts.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: June 01, 2019 at 07:30 AM | 1297 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movies, music, off-topic, television, whatever else belongs under the rubric of 'popular culture'

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   501. PreservedFish Posted: June 11, 2019 at 10:15 AM (#5850486)
floop
   502. Davo Posted: June 11, 2019 at 12:05 PM (#5850543)
@tvoti
In that first week it was out, Avengers: Endgame felt like it would play all summer, and maybe even make its way to $3 billion worldwide. That it fell off SO quickly speaks to how ephemeral our pop culture is becoming.

It definitely had challenges -- being over 3 hours makes repeat viewings a steeper hill to climb -- but it had SO MUCH MONEY after those first two weekends it needed only a completely normal decline to obliterate the records. Instead, it's had a super steep one.

I do not think anybody at Disney is going to sneeze at "second biggest movie of all time" (esp. when they now own both the worldwide and domestic record holders), but this does feel indicative of what blockbuster culture has become in 2019.

A lot of folks saying, "Endgame's only been out a little while! It's too early to write it off!" But, like, we have math that tells us it doesn't have the juice left to get to #1*. Box office experts agree!

Also, my point with this thread wasn't to dog on the MCU. I liked Endgame quite a lot (except that movie treated Black Widow HORRIBLY, but never mind that)! It's more to point out how these pop culture micro-cycles are getting shorter and shorter and shorter.
   503. jmurph Posted: June 11, 2019 at 12:14 PM (#5850546)
That it fell off SO quickly speaks to how ephemeral our pop culture is becoming.

This is a thing I think/talk about a lot, it's really fascinating. Combine it with aging and having children (and thus being a little less plugged in) and you can feel like stuff is just flying by you by the day.
   504. flournoy Posted: June 11, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5850554)
I doubt it's reflective of much besides the abundance of options today. There's always a new next big thing.
   505. BrianBrianson Posted: June 11, 2019 at 12:46 PM (#5850560)
I do know someone who saw it three times in theatres, but the obvious interpretation is that it was such a big deal, known you didn't want it spoiled, that everyone who wanted to see it turned up as quickly as possible.

Also, it's the 2nd highest grossing film of all time, ~2% behind the #1 slot, and still in theatres. If you expected it to make far more money in theatres, maybe you're a complete nutcase.

Although adjusted for inflation it is 5th, and won't approach the film that spent 10+ years in theatres locking up slot number one.

And it's a bit silly to accuse the MCU of being ephemeral, when it's been dragging us to theatres for 10 years and shows no sign of slowing down.
   506. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 11, 2019 at 12:48 PM (#5850561)
504--that next big thing is soooo obvious now in things like the non-drinking crowd. So five years ago in the San Fran/San Jose area it was all about open relationships/open marriages. Then the lifestyle thing was about living until you are 150. And that has moved into not drinking alcohol. So you go to these parties and it's just become super boring in like no time because everyone is discussing on how to monitor everything you take into your body and how much energy you exert each day and how much quality sleep you are getting and it's totally an obsession. I skipped the open marriage stuff and thought I was still in the right lanes drinking some good wine and eating steak but that is now outcast behavior

   507. BrianBrianson Posted: June 11, 2019 at 12:55 PM (#5850564)
You're going to the wrong parties. I don't go to parties with non-drinking crowds unless they're birthday parties for 4-6 year olds. (Well, my wife, but she has an aldehyde dehydrogenase 2 deficiency, and makes an excellent designated driver ;) )
   508. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 11, 2019 at 12:59 PM (#5850567)
in the San Fran/San Jose area
There's the key.
   509. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 11, 2019 at 01:06 PM (#5850570)
507--Social stuff is a requirement of the role unfortunately.
   510. PreservedFish Posted: June 11, 2019 at 01:23 PM (#5850580)
What do they eat? Just soylent?
   511. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 11, 2019 at 01:27 PM (#5850587)
510--Lots of vegan dishes or middle eastern or Mediterranean themed
   512. jmurph Posted: June 11, 2019 at 02:04 PM (#5850600)
I doubt it's reflective of much besides the abundance of options today. There's always a new next big thing.

This is (me) shifting the conversation a little, but the idea that things might be more fleeting is also about streaming- both for music and TV/movies. Thriller is obviously a thing by which very little can be compared, but to use it as an extreme example: according to Wiki, the 7 singles from that album were released over the course of 15 months! Lemonade appeared in Apple Music (or wherever) overnight and everyone had it for free(ish) immediately.

This isn't a better or worse argument, I just think it's interesting.
   513. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 11, 2019 at 02:12 PM (#5850604)
Lots of vegan dishes or middle eastern or Mediterranean themed
Have they opened up to you about their feelings about gluten or GMO? It sounds like those people would be a good source of well-reasoned, evidence-based, measured discourse about those topics, if only you could get them to overcome their natural reticence about discussing them.
   514. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: June 11, 2019 at 02:21 PM (#5850611)
Lots of vegan dishes or middle eastern or Mediterranean themed

Then what's the point of living to 150? Jeez, I wouldn't want to live until next week.
   515. Lassus Posted: June 11, 2019 at 02:21 PM (#5850612)
So five years ago in the San Fran/San Jose area it was all about open relationships/open marriages.

Is the poly scene really bigger now than in 1998/1999 when I was over there? People in 2007 I spoke to about this were very upset when all I could talk about was how it never worked, ever - at least from the people that I knew.
   516. Lassus Posted: June 11, 2019 at 02:26 PM (#5850615)
Also was I one of the only 15 people who saw Dark Phoenix on opening weekend? Granted, I'm in the middle of shit nowhere, but the theater was only at like 15% on Saturday night. Brutal.

The movie was only really bad because there was no one to care about. It was such an unwarranted rehash/retread, with no buildup.
   517. BrianBrianson Posted: June 11, 2019 at 02:49 PM (#5850635)
Yes. The trailers made it quite obvious Dark Phoenix was going to be awful, so nobody went. Frankly, I'm surprised they bothered advertising it at all.
   518. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:05 PM (#5850640)
I am a huge x-men fan, was a big time reader during prime Dark Phoenix comics run, and I love comic book movies. I have time and disposable income. If I am not interested in the movie something has gone horribly wrong. I will watch it at some point, but not in theaters.
   519. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:05 PM (#5850641)
513--yeah the discussions are pretty lame when it's another take on artichokes or eggplant
514--Strong agreement.
515--I don't go back that far, sorry. Kind of actually has hurt business frankly in that if you take a pass you don't get the call back. Whatever. And the big contradiction in this setup is all the older dudes with the second wives not really down with the 35 year old wife getting side action but it's part of daily life. And then hearing the complaining about how their wife is spending all this time not at home for the whatever IPO and is it work or because she's busy elsewhere.
   520. Lassus Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:09 PM (#5850642)
Frankly, I'm surprised they bothered advertising it at all.

Well, they really barely did, which exacerbated the problem. More people hating it would have at least been more people in the theater.
   521. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:21 PM (#5850648)
515--I don't go back that far, sorry. Kind of actually has hurt business frankly in that if you take a pass you don't get the call back. Whatever. And the big contradiction in this setup is all the older dudes with the second wives not really down with the 35 year old wife getting side action but it's part of daily life. And then hearing the complaining about how their wife is spending all this time not at home for the whatever IPO and is it work or because she's busy elsewhere.

Seriously? You lose business b/c you won't let them screw your wife? Ridiculous. You should punch 'em in the face for asking.
   522. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:26 PM (#5850652)
I'm at work now but searching for "rationalist" plus "poly" provides some examples of how free love has once again appeared, again seemingly only in California.
   523. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:34 PM (#5850656)
Seriously? You lose business b/c you won't let them screw your wife? Ridiculous.
Yeah, what the hell kind of business are you in?
   524. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:34 PM (#5850657)
521--They are making their wives available FWIW. And girlfriends. I never approached my wife about this setup because it's not my thing. And she is a total outsider to CA in a lot of ways but she picked up enough and made it clear that this was not on the table for us.
522--Lots of discussion on Reason articles.
   525. Wayne Newton's pet monkey (gef, talking mongoose) Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:39 PM (#5850658)
Yeah, what the hell kind of business are you in?


The kind that gets David Ortiz shot?
   526. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:44 PM (#5850659)
523--I found a source of untapped investment dollars in the deep south mostly so set up a small VC fund. Also have a developing analytics team, maybe a dozen really smart kids, with targeted services. Not lame spend analytics #### but serious work that blends the collective smarts of the team with available AI and other tools to come to clients with specific action recommendations and the added offer of implementation. So I'm busy working on both and that means doing the rounds in different joinups. Nothing happens in a conference room other than you find out what stupid themes they have for naming the rooms.
   527. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:46 PM (#5850660)
521--They are making their wives available FWIW. And girlfriends. I never approached my wife about this setup because it's not my thing. And she is a total outsider to CA in a lot of ways but she picked up enough and made it clear that this was not on the table for us.

I mean, how does this even come up? I've lived my whole life in NYC, so not exactly a hotbed of traditionalism, but I've never even heard a story about this happening to someone I know.
   528. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:56 PM (#5850663)
527--I think it was like New Yorker or maybe Vanity Fair that did an article on the valley and this stuff. So if you google I think open relationships or similar you should find it. Not completely accurate but not terrible.
   529. Man o' Schwar Posted: June 11, 2019 at 03:56 PM (#5850665)
That it fell off SO quickly speaks to how ephemeral our pop culture is becoming.

Anyone old enough to remember "Who Shot JR?"

It kept an entire nation of people talking for a whole summer. People wrote books analyzing the details from the show and making their guesses. There were contests with cash prizes for the right answer. It was all over T-shirts, talk shows, magazine covers, etc. The Republicans and Democrats used it in the 1980 presidential campaign (each side claiming that someone from the other had shot JR). Casinos took bets on the outcome. Songs were recorded about it. When the show came back in the fall, it set a record for most viewers for a single episode of TV (83 million estimated, a 53.3 rating). 76% of all TVs in the US watching something were tuned in to Dallas to find out who did it.

I wonder how long something like that would last today. Two weeks, before people started caring about something else, or before the answer got leaked on the internet and soon spoiled all over the media?
   530. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:02 PM (#5850667)
523--I found a source of untapped investment dollars in the deep south mostly so set up a small VC fund.
Condolences for your lost, but congrats on the inheritance.
   531. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:06 PM (#5850669)
531--Is this like the line that people who race horses use about you make a small fortune in horseracing by starting with a large fortune?
   532. Davo Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:07 PM (#5850670)
@SPNKR
Indie filmmakers: streaming services are ####### us
Indie musicians: streaming services are ####### us
The games industry: CHOOCHOO HERE COMES THE SUBSCRIPTION TRAIN
   533. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:08 PM (#5850673)
These are some of my favorites when done well, if only because - to be true to the theme - the degree of difficulty should be higher. Essentially 'pay very close attention to my technique, vocabulary, and flow for the whole song'. Abdominal's "I'm Good" is probably the first one that comes to mind.


Rakim owns this category.

Can't think of any of his songs that are flat-out boasting, but Eminem stands out to me as having a particular tongue-twisting style.
   534. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:23 PM (#5850686)
Anyone old enough to remember "Who Shot JR?"

It kept an entire nation of people talking for a whole summer. People wrote books analyzing the details from the show and making their guesses. There were contests with cash prizes for the right answer. It was all over T-shirts, talk shows, magazine covers, etc. The Republicans and Democrats used it in the 1980 presidential campaign (each side claiming that someone from the other had shot JR). Casinos took bets on the outcome. Songs were recorded about it. When the show came back in the fall, it set a record for most viewers for a single episode of TV (83 million estimated, a 53.3 rating). 76% of all TVs in the US watching something were tuned in to Dallas to find out who did it.

I wonder how long something like that would last today. Two weeks, before people started caring about something else, or before the answer got leaked on the internet and soon spoiled all over the media?
I seem to remember another more recent TV show that generated pretty close to that level of obsession. It may have been discussed a bit on these very pages. Forget what it was called though.
   535. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:24 PM (#5850687)
Can't think of any of his songs that are flat-out boasting, but Eminem stands out to me as having a particular tongue-twisting style.


I remember at a party in London about a decade ago, a couple of beers in, trying - perhaps over-enthusiastically - to convince an English teacher that Chali 2na was nothing short of a poet that she should introduce to her students, citing specifically the line "restless acts of freshness infest this track". My friend, watching from afar, later claimed that she was totally into this line of conversation and that I was doing very well indeed, which just goes to prove that the friend in question is cunning in finding ways to let me fall flat on my face socially.

Tongue-twisters feel like a very superficial way to enjoy hip-hop, but: "Yo, we make you feel the heat/This lyric liquid my gills secretes/Ill speech spills and leaks 'till it fills and reveals the beat", or "Insist to persist, you'll cease to exist/ So cease and desist, or meet with my fist" definitely make me grateful for the (different) friend who pushed me into borrowing his DJ Format CD at college.
   536. Lassus Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:24 PM (#5850688)
I seem to remember another more recent TV show that generated pretty close to that level of obsession. It may have been discussed a bit on these very pages. Forget what it was called though.

Fleabag?
   537. PreservedFish Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:26 PM (#5850690)
Anyone old enough to remember "Who Shot JR?"

...

I wonder how long something like that would last today. Two weeks, before people started caring about something else, or before the answer got leaked on the internet and soon spoiled all over the media?


I feel like "Who will win the iron throne" had a lot of this type of hype. It did seemingly dominate pop culture discussion for a bit.
   538. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:27 PM (#5850692)
Indie filmmakers: streaming services are ####### us
Indie musicians: streaming services are ####### us
The games industry: CHOOCHOO HERE COMES THE SUBSCRIPTION TRAIN


Granted not many Indie bands can probably afford to set this up, but, Metallica now has a streaming service where you can stream over 600 live shows going back to 2004, plus, a number of older shows that they release from the vault. $130/year (though, I was able to snag a subscription for $19.81). I would expect to see more and more bands do things like this.
   539. Lassus Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:27 PM (#5850693)
PF owes someone some mead.
   540. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:28 PM (#5850694)
I feel like "Who will win the iron throne" had a lot of this type of hype. It did seemingly dominate pop culture discussion for a bit.
Yeah, I do think it was something about thrones, that sounds about right.
   541. PreservedFish Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:29 PM (#5850697)
I remember at a party in London about a decade ago, a couple of beers in, trying - perhaps over-enthusiastically - to convince an English teacher that Chali 2na was nothing short of a poet that she should introduce to her students

This sounds like something from my life. Jurassic 5 was very popular in the tony New England liberal arts school scene. Consistent with my approach as detailed over previous pages, I never really care that much about the lyrics, just loved his voice and flow.
   542. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:34 PM (#5850700)
That's how I got started too, and probably still do most of the time - the beats, and the tone and flow of the rapper in question gets me to put a track in my 'big bucket' playlist of things to shuffle through on my way to work in the morning. Then repetition and focus on the lyrics comes over time. I do a very poor job picking up raps, partly for this reason, so I'm still sifting through the rhymes and word-play on the umpteenth listen. Like the fact, in the Chali 2na lines I quoted above, that he references having gills. I literally just got that now. Not too swift.

Probably listening to all that over and over again in my 20s made me more ready for getting caught up with stuff like Doomtree and Aesop Rock now.
   543. PreservedFish Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:45 PM (#5850705)
510--Lots of vegan dishes or middle eastern or Mediterranean themed


So is the paleo / keto craze over?
   544. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 11, 2019 at 04:53 PM (#5850710)
543--Apologies to anyone in advance and just sharing but the keto approach is referred to as the 'fat person's solution/diet/lifestyle' Def out of phase
   545. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 11, 2019 at 05:12 PM (#5850716)
543--Apologies to anyone in advance and just sharing but the keto approach is referred to as the 'fat person's solution/diet/lifestyle' Def out of phase

I find it hilarious, and sad, that people in their 30's and 40's are still following these fads, and acting desperate to "fit in". If you haven't figured out who you are, and have enough confidence to make up your own damn mind by that point, you're not doing life very well.
   546. PreservedFish Posted: June 11, 2019 at 05:26 PM (#5850721)
I (mostly) follow a keto diet for health reasons unrelated to fads, although the fact that it's a fad makes it easier to do so. Why, the gas station near my house just put up a sign advertising that they now have cauliflower pizza crusts. Not that I would eat a cauliflower pizza crust, yuck.

The main keto subreddit is almost entirely hugely fat people (and it seems to work awesome for them), so there's definitely that aspect to it. But there's also a fad of high-performing health nuts that are now convinced that carbohydrates are basically evil and terrible, and that high blood sugar or insulin resistance is the cause of nearly every malady associated with the modern Western lifestyle. But I left the Bay Area a few years ago and am now totally unplugged from the bleeding edge of Silicon Valley, except what I read in the papers, so it could well be that as that fad has reached the suburbs and bloggin' moms, it's also fallen out of fashion with the young hip millionaire types.
   547. Davo Posted: June 11, 2019 at 05:47 PM (#5850726)
@ebruenig
in legally blonde when elle shows up in costume to the non-costume party everyone laughs at her, but irl everyone would be intimidated because that's such an incredibly alpha move and she looks like an a-list movie star
   548. Davo Posted: June 11, 2019 at 06:01 PM (#5850730)
   549. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 11, 2019 at 06:16 PM (#5850735)
Why, the gas station near my house just put up a sign advertising that they now have cauliflower pizza crusts. Not that I would eat a cauliflower pizza crust, yuck.
I'm not sure "cauliflower" is necessarily the problematic part of "gas station cauliflower pizza crust."
   550. PreservedFish Posted: June 11, 2019 at 09:09 PM (#5850774)
That gas station actually has the best pizza in the area. No, it's not good.
   551. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 12, 2019 at 04:11 AM (#5850830)
So, what if a massive amusement park fire burned the original masters of music by Louis Armstrong, R.E.M., Ray Charles, Nirvana, Les Paul, all of Chess Records (Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, Bo Diddley, etc), almost all of Buddy Holly, Elton John, Tom Petty, the Police, Coleman Hawkins, John Coltrane, Patsy Cline, Louis Jordan, Aretha Franklin, B.B. King, Burt Bacharach, the Four Tops, Steely Dan, Duke Ellington, Eminem, 2Pac, Judy Garland, Joni Mitchell, Count Basie, Ella Fitzgerald, Aerosmith, the Eagles, the Carpenters, Al Green, Bing Crosby, Fats Domino, Lynyrd Skynyrd, all of Billie Holiday's Decca recordings, Guns N Roses, the Police, Snoop Dogg, Nine Inch Nails, the Andrews Sisters, George Jones, and literally hundreds of thousands of other songs... and nobody mentioned it for over a decade? (Except to publicly concede that they'd lost tracks by Lenny Dee and Georgie Shaw?)

New York Times, "The Day the Music Burned"
   552. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: June 12, 2019 at 09:27 AM (#5850853)
well, that is horrific Gonfalon. What a loss.
   553. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:39 AM (#5850901)
Why don’t people know about libraries?

I saw this yesterday and enjoyed it. There is no limit on the ability of tech people to believe they're the first person to ever think of anything.
   554. Davo Posted: June 12, 2019 at 10:50 AM (#5850909)
553–I saw a more depressing take on it later on in this thread
@DavidAstinWalsh
To be clear, these people almost certainly know about libraries but see them as a lumbering dinosaur that only the poors use.

@DavidAstinWalsh
The scorn heaped on this dubious idea is both justified and, if anything, understated, but the deeper issue here is that venture capital sees public goods used primarily by the poor as something ripe for "disruption."
   555. PreservedFish Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:04 AM (#5850928)
They see everything as ripe for disruption.
   556. PepTech Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:15 AM (#5850937)
And it's a bit silly to accuse the MCU of being ephemeral, when it's been dragging us to theatres for 10 years and shows no sign of slowing down.
I guess we'll find out if MCU Fatigue is a thing in about three weeks, when Peter Parker hits your screen again.

They haven't announced dates for anything else - still - but Guardians 3, Panther 2, Strange 2, and a Black Widow movie (possibly origin?) are all in various stages of development. It doesn't seem possible to maintain the three-a-year (roughly) rate, and Spider-Man (along with the latest Thor and Ant-Man movies) "only" got into the upper nine figures (slackers!) last time. With Phoenix crashing - making it much less likely the XMen will bomb in to the shared world anytime soon - the MCU has probably peaked, but it's not like they won't make a bit more money along the way.
   557. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:17 AM (#5850942)
They see everything as ripe for disruption.
I'm going to start a company, and when people ask what we do, I'm just going to say "We drive disruptive solutions." I'll have $20 million in VC funding within 30 days.
   558. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:21 AM (#5850948)
I'm going to start a company, and when people ask what we do, I'm just going to say "We drive disruptive solutions." I'll have $20 million in VC funding within 30 days.

Getting VC funding isn't as simple as that. You need to also be polyamorous.
   559. Davo Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:25 AM (#5850953)
Getting VC funding isn't as simple as that. You need to also be polyamorous.

I knew Silicon Valley was censoring conservative voices!
   560. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5850956)
Getting VC funding isn't as simple as that. You need to also be polyamorous.
Ah, right, I forgot about that. Well, it would certainly disrupt my marriage.
   561. PreservedFish Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5850957)
X-Men + Avengers would make billions. There's no way we don't see it eventually, is there?
   562. Davo Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:34 AM (#5850962)
X-Men + Avengers + Girls Trippers + Best Exotic Marigold Hoteliers would make trillions—a surefire 4-quadrant hit!
   563. PreservedFish Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:44 AM (#5850969)
I mean, what percentage of the Best Exotic Marigold Hotel cast has already been in a superhero movie? Probably most of them.
   564. BrianBrianson Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:47 AM (#5850971)
553–I saw a more depressing take on it later on in this thread


The "Outraged for oppressed group X" take is one of the easiest Hot Takes. The original thread mentions libraries a bunch of times, but is of course largely about how bookstores suck as a business model these days, and libraries level of service is very low (to go along with cost, of course).
   565. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:50 AM (#5850973)
As someone with young kids anyone who thinks libraries have a low level of service is just weird. Libraries have stayed relevant by providing all kinds of services.
   566. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:51 AM (#5850975)
and libraries level of service is very low

In my experience, this isn't remotely true in any sense.
   567. Lassus Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:51 AM (#5850976)
X-Men + Avengers would make billions. There's no way we don't see it eventually, is there?

If this is coming in 2028, you better believe Iron Man returns for it, somehow.


In my experience, this isn't remotely true in any sense.

Thirded.
   568. PreservedFish Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:52 AM (#5850977)
Yes, I am very impressed by my local library. They do a fantastic job at many things. It's a true pillar of the community.
   569. PreservedFish Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:53 AM (#5850979)
If this is coming in 2028, you better believe Iron Man returns for it, somehow.

Did you just spoil something for me? DOES IRON MAN DIE???

Actually I don't care if he does, it's cool.
   570. BrianBrianson Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:53 AM (#5850980)
the MCU has probably peaked, but it's not like they won't make a bit more money along the way.


Their most recent film is the 2nd highest grossing film of all time (and still in theatres!) Simple regression to the mean suggests they've probably already peaked.

But maybe not. Their last 3 films are currently 2nd, 5th, & 22nd in all time gross. I'm sure they'd be happy to bounce along at those kind of levels indefinitely. Overall, the 2nd, 5th, 7th, 9th 10th, 18th, 20th, 22nd grossing films of all time are MCU films

So, it looks a bit peak-y. But is it Bonds 2001-2004 peaky?, or Bonds '92/'93 peaky?
   571. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:54 AM (#5850982)
Yes, I am very impressed by my local library. They do a fantastic job at many things.

Our library is also good. I just like owning books too much.
   572. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:56 AM (#5850986)
The depressing part is upper-middle-class people now talking about libraries the same way they talk about buses. There must be something wrong with them if they don't cost much and are used by all walks of life. If only we had the same thing, but more expensive and exclusive, then it would appeal to me.
   573. BrianBrianson Posted: June 12, 2019 at 11:57 AM (#5850988)
Libraries are indeed very good, and provide a lot of services (and my local is very good). But I also don't doubt it'd be able to do a lot more if it was ~$5 to rent a book. I suspect they also vary in quality enormously from place to place, and that living in a college town does a lot for making the library a priority.

Whether the people in the twitter thread go to their library, I wouldn't care to guess. The kind of business they're talking about presumably doesn't target people who already go to libraries. And I probably wouldn't, if I didn't have a four year old.
   574. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:00 PM (#5850990)
The depressing part is upper-middle-class people now talking about libraries the same way they talk about buses.

I don't know. Libraries are generally good at what they're supposed to do. Buses kind of suck. Public transportation where you still get stuck in traffic just isn't a great option for anyone who owns a car, except in very dense cities where parking is an issue.
   575. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5850992)
But I also don't doubt it'd be able to do a lot more if it was ~$5 to rent a book.

I suspect they would nearly all close almost literally overnight, but I could of course be wildly wrong about that.
   576. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5850993)
and libraries level of service is very low

In my experience, this isn't remotely true in any sense.


Looking at the Cincinnati Library event list, I see the following upcoming things:

ESOL Conversation (at 2 different branches): Join us to practice and improve your English speaking skills in our conversation group for speakers of other languages. All levels are welcome. No registration required.

Closing Reception: AntiOD: Reclaiming our city: Join co-curators and designers, Dr. Claudia B. Rebola and Matt Wizinsky, University of Cincinnati associate professors at DAAP for the closing of their interactive exhibition, AntiOD: Reclaiming Our City. The exhibit is currently on display in the atrium of the Main Library. It aims to address substance use disorder in Cincinnati and what we can do together as a community to save lives from overdose.

Android for Beginners: Android is a mobile operating system that is used in many smartphones and tablets. This class will show you the basics of using your Android device, including setting up your email, downloading apps, and managing privacy settings. Having a Google/Gmail account is strongly suggested before taking this class.

Crime & Punishment & Fitness: Exercise your body and mind with this new book club pairing expert fitness instruction with discussions of Dostoyevsky's classic novel Crime & Punishment. Adults of any fitness level are welcome. We'll discuss one chapter per week for 39 weeks while fitness expert Daryl Harris leads different exercises in the weight room of the Price Hill Recreation Center.

Knifty Knitters: This is a fun, social knitting and crocheting group that meets once a month to learn from each other. Share techniques, and practice knitting in an enjoyable group atmosphere.

Madisonville Branch Library Project Community Engagement Session: The Madisonville Branch Library is a priority location for improvements. The Library has contracted with FTC&H to do the improvements, yet, we want to do more than repair the building-we want to invest more in the neighborhood by using this opportunity to make larger improvements. Before this work can begin, though, it's important to hear from the community about what the needs are in the neighborhood and how the Library might improve its presence and help address these needs. Please attend and share your thoughts with us.

The Murals of Downtown Cincinnati: From giant Charlie Harper birds to Mr. Potato Head and the Ghostbusters, you’ve no doubt noticed the beautiful murals enriching the downtown Cincinnati vibe. Ever wondered about the people and ideas behind these masterpieces? Join us as 3 Points Urban Brewery and the Public Library of Cincinnati and Hamilton County host members of ArtWorks in a discussion and celebration of these local treasures.

Free. Registration not required.
The event will take place at 3 Points Urban Brewery, 331 E 13th Street...

Not bad, and... This is only the adult-aged events... for today.


   577. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:04 PM (#5850994)
Buses kind of suck.

Buses are indisputably great and getting better; they move dozens of people in the same space as like 4 cars, max, and many of them (more everyday, it seems) are electric. Large cities with traffic problems are doing things like creating bus-only lanes. Etc.
   578. PepTech Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:06 PM (#5850996)
I sometimes purposely keep books past their due date, just so I can pay some fines and feel like I contribute more. I know it's stupid.

Every time I get a book on hold the shelf next to my letter has about fourteen things on it (mostly videos and children's books) for a family I know of with an autistic child.
   579. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:07 PM (#5850997)
Bookstores also appear to be doing pretty well recently after a long downturn:
After almost withering away, indie bookstores grew by 35 percent between 2009 and 2015. And according to the American Booksellers Association, sales at the more than 2,400 bookstores in the United States rose about 5 percent over the past year.
   580. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:07 PM (#5850998)
Buses are indisputably great and getting better; they move dozens of people in the same space as like 4 cars, max, and many of them (more everyday, it seems) are electric. Large cities with traffic problems are doing things like creating bus-only lanes. Etc.

Most of us don't live in large, dense cities. In the suburbs, buses are practically useless, if you own a car.

I live 25 miles north of Midtown NYC. To get into the city, the train will always be superior. I don't think we even have express buses in our county, b/c we have three rail lines. To get around my local area, the bus is always slower, and more expensive than driving (parking is free and ample).
   581. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:08 PM (#5851000)
Everybody who thinks libraries should charge money should just set up a recurring donation to their local library system- I can't imagine any startup could possibly replace them or even improve on the model at the scale at which they already exist.
   582. Lassus Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:10 PM (#5851001)
I don't think we even have express buses in our county

I'm reasonably sure you do.
   583. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:11 PM (#5851002)
I'm reasonably sure you do.

I've never heard of anyone who takes them, if we do. Metro North is actually pretty damn good.

Express buses are popular on Staten Island, and some parts of Brooklyn/Queens that don't have LIRR or subway links to Manhattan.

Edit: apparently there is one route from White Plains through Greenburgh, and Yonkers. It takes more than twice as long as a Metro North train from White Plains.
   584. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:14 PM (#5851004)
Snapper, you presumably know that most American cities don't have subways or extensive regional rail systems or anywhere near the density of the NY metro area.
   585. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:16 PM (#5851005)
Everybody who thinks libraries should charge money should just set up a recurring donation to their local library system- I can't imagine any startup could possibly replace them or even improve on the model at the scale at which they already exist.


Prior to 2018, Hamilton County, Ohio citizens paid about $28 per $100,000 of house value in property taxes for the library system. In 2018 there was a ballot issue to levy an ADDITIONAL $35 per $100,000 home value. It passed with about 63%.
   586. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:17 PM (#5851006)
Snapper, you presumably know that most American cities don't have subways or extensive regional rail systems or anywhere near the density of the NY metro area.

Sure. But most American cities also don't have dense core business districts. Lots of commuting is suburb to suburb, where mass transit works much less well.

Even in dense cities, mass transit doesn't always work. When I lived in Chicago, I was living in Wrigleyville, commuting to the U of C. I could drive there faster than the walk to the Wrigley El stop.
   587. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:18 PM (#5851007)
Prior to 2018, Hamilton County, Ohio citizens paid about $28 per $100,000 of house value in property taxes for the library system. In 2018 there was a ballot issue to levy an ADDITIONAL $35 per $100,000 home value. It passed with about 63%.

Excellent! I (non-snarkily) am not sure of the connection between this and the quoted post.
   588. Lassus Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:19 PM (#5851008)
   589. BrianBrianson Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:19 PM (#5851009)
Buses are indisputably great and getting better;


Buses have many upsides and many downsides. But the people that want to disrupt buses ain't ridin' 'em, and might in some alternate paradigm.

I haven't ridden a bus in ... probably three years. The town where I live does have buses, but as an out of shape man in his thirties, I can walk anywhere in town faster than I can get there on the bus.
   590. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:20 PM (#5851010)
Sure. But most American cities also don't have dense core business districts. Lots of commuting is suburb to suburb, where mass transit works much less well.

Oh sure, I'll stipulate that most people don't use mass transit. It's like 5% or something very low like that.

I've never lived in New York, but in every other city I've lived in (mostly in the 10s-20s in population rank) buses are extremely useful.
   591. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:21 PM (#5851011)
PDF! - BEELINE map and schedule - Westchester County (including Manhattan express - $7.50).

Are you in Putnam County, farther north?


See my edit. It's one line, and it takes more than twice as much time as the train. It's a non-factor unless you happen to live right by one of its stops.
   592. BrianBrianson Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:22 PM (#5851013)
Everybody who thinks libraries should charge money should just set up a recurring donation to their local library system- I can't imagine any startup could possibly replace them or even improve on the model at the scale at which they already exist.


Libraries and book rental shops aren't competing with each other, any more than McDonald's and The Fat Duck are competing with one another.
   593. PreservedFish Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:23 PM (#5851014)
Wait, is a book rental shop a thing? I thought it was just something silly someone on twitter threw out there.

Speaking of book rental, I've noticed that airport bookstores now have a buy-back arrangement of some sort. That's kind of like a rental.
   594. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:23 PM (#5851015)
Oh sure, I'll stipulate that most people don't use mass transit. It's like 5% or something very low like that.

I've never lived in New York, but in every other city I've lived in (mostly in the 10s-20s in population rank) buses are extremely useful.


Buses can be useful, if you happen to live and work very close to their routes, and don't require flexibility. People on Staten Island love them for getting into Manhattan.

Fundamentally, our settlement and housing pattern does not lend itself to mass transit.
   595. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5851017)
Wait, is a book rental shop a thing?

Why would you ever pay $5 to rent a book, when most can be bought for <$20? Having to make the 2nd trip to the store would kill it for me. It's like the bad old days of Blockbuster.

I always wait until I have 5+ books I want, and give the bookstore a list. I try to avoid Amazon b/c I deeply dislike their initial steps towards censorship.
   596. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5851018)
Buses can be useful, if you happen to live and work very close to their routes, and don't require flexibility. People on Staten Island love them for getting into Manhattan.

Yeah I think they're most useful for within city commuting- to and from a few miles outside of downtown. I generally preferred them when I lived in DC, largely due to the less than reliable metro system!
   597. BrianBrianson Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5851019)
Wait, is a book rental shop a thing? I thought it was just something silly someone on twitter threw out there.


It's just me searching for a word for what the twits were tweeting about.
   598. Lassus Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:29 PM (#5851020)
It's one line, and it takes more than twice as much time as the train.

And is more than twice as much. People can make time, and do, to save money for other requirements.


It's a non-factor unless you happen to live right by one of its stops.

Inconvenience saves money, which you don't seem capable of understanding.
   599. BrianBrianson Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:29 PM (#5851022)
Having to make the 2nd trip to the store would kill it for me. It's like the bad old days of Blockbuster.


You wouldn't, they'd mail it to your house and pick it up by drone or something. That's why the book rental business would be disruptive. The having to go to the library and back during their hours. It's four am, I'm drunk as ####, and I want to read Robert J. Sawyer's Calculating God. What business exists to service me then?
   600. jmurph Posted: June 12, 2019 at 12:30 PM (#5851023)
What business exists to service me then?

Libraries, man! Library ebooks have been around for years.

Alternatively, Amazon, of course.
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