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Wednesday, May 01, 2019

OT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (May 2019)

Milch is here to watch, not interfere. He was a notorious micromanager during Deadwood’s original run, ordering reshoots if he didn’t like the way a scene was playing and dictating new dialogue from the sidelines for the cast to repeat. McShane has spoken of top-to-bottom rewrites being handed to actors just before the cameras rolled, the pages still hot from the copier.

This time, Milch is entrusting the day-to-day execution to his collaborators, among them the director Daniel Minahan, a series veteran, and his co–executive producer Regina Corrado, who started out as a writer on the series in 2005.

But his serenity is also the by-product of a greater urge to let go and accept what life has in store, even if it’s not what he asked for.

It’s here that we come to the matter of David Milch’s Alzheimer’s diagnosis.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: May 01, 2019 at 05:48 AM | 969 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movies, music, off-topic, television, whatever else belongs under the rubric of 'popular culture'

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   401. PreservedFish Posted: May 14, 2019 at 04:21 PM (#5841975)
   402. Davo Posted: May 14, 2019 at 04:36 PM (#5841980)
Back from Amazing Grace, which was wonderful. Turns out that Aretha Franklin was pretty good at that whole singing thing.

An amusing “whaaaa?” moment came on night 2 of the concert, when of all people who do we see in the pew of that Baptist church clapping and dancing with the congregation but....Mick Jagger!
   403. Greg Pope Posted: May 14, 2019 at 05:07 PM (#5841990)
If the show ends with Jon on the throne, safe and with broad support, I'll be disappointed. But at least you can't say that the structure of this tale was typical or predictable or stale.

So, Martin has said something to the effect that "anyone who thinks this has a happy ending hasn't been paying attention". But he also said that the ending will be "bittersweet". First, I don't want to make too much of one quote. Second, I'm assuming that the show ends basically the same as the books. Third, I'm assuming that Martin hasn't changed his mind. Having said that, I wonder what ending would qualify as bittersweet?

Evil Dany killing everyone and being on the throne wouldn't be described that way.

Neither would Dany and Jon both dying and Gendry ending up on the throne.

Clearly, Jon or Arya being required to kill Dany and then Jon ruling would work. This is my bet right now.

Dany and Jon both dying and Sansa on the throne?

   404. JAHV Posted: May 14, 2019 at 05:35 PM (#5842005)
If bittersweet is the only clue we have to work on, my money is on Jon having to kill Dany. Second on my list is for Tyrion to die in the process of killing Dany. I wouldn't be surprised if Arya gets taken out in the process.
   405. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: May 14, 2019 at 06:01 PM (#5842012)
Dany's going down, my money is on Jon, but I'm pretty confident this doesn't end with Mopey McDopey on the throne either.
   406. Davo Posted: May 14, 2019 at 07:47 PM (#5842036)
MTV Movie & TV Awards 2019: The Complete List of Nominations

BEST FIGHT

Avengers: EndgameCaptain America vs. Thanos[/spoiler]

Captain Marvel – Captain Marvel vs. Minn-Erva[/spoiler]

Game of ThronesArya Stark vs. the White Walkers [/spoiler]

RBG – Ruth Bader Ginsburg vs. Inequality

WWE Wrestlemania – Becky Lynch vs. Ronda Rousey vs. Charlotte Flair

I’m....I’m.....

If RBG wins does she have to share the award with Inequality?
   407. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: May 14, 2019 at 09:19 PM (#5842098)
My money is on Arya killing Dany, and Jon killing Arya. Either in the act, or due to his incredibly boring 'must do the right thing' mindset.
   408. Davo Posted: May 14, 2019 at 10:50 PM (#5842146)
In the middle of episode 2 of Chernobyl, we *finally* get a scene reuniting Stellan Skarshard and Emily Watson (from Breaking the Waves.)
   409. flournoy Posted: May 14, 2019 at 11:40 PM (#5842157)
As far as death predictions... surely Jon will kill Daenerys, and die in the process or as a result of it.

The story is ultimately a story about people. Chiefly Jon and Daenerys. All of the winter and White Walker business is the pretense for bringing them together. All of the political maneuvering, including Jon's heritage, is the wedge that then drives them apart. I think the only "logical" conclusion to their tragedy is them dying at each other's hands.

Where would that leave the Seven Kingdoms? I don't know. I suppose Sansa would rule the North as its Queen. The other kingdoms... eh, I suppose they can all just fend for themselves. If I had to bet, I'd go with the separate kingdoms all returning to independence.

I'm actually fairly confident in that bet. There's a reason that earlier they casually mentioned the new Prince of Dorne, that Yara had retaken the Iron Islands, that Gendry was made the Lord of the Stormlands, and that Bronn was offered Highgarden and the position of Lord of the Reach. Tyrion, assuming he survives, will become the Lord of the Westerlands, which leaves us one Edmure Tully and one Robin Arryn away from getting clarity on the power structure of all of Westeros. Now when the story ends with the kingdoms regaining their independence, we'll have that sense of closure for the world at large.
   410. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: May 14, 2019 at 11:44 PM (#5842158)
If bittersweet is the only clue we have to work on, my money is on Jon having to kill Dany. Second on my list is for Tyrion to die in the process of killing Dany. I wouldn't be surprised if Arya gets taken out in the process.


Well, they crapped all over "prophecies" -- i.e., either Tyrion or Jamie was supposed to kill Cersei.... but the whole Azor Ahai prophecy was big with R'hllor(ists? ians?) is supposed to have The prince (or princess) who was promised having to stab his(/her) mate through the heart.

   411. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: May 14, 2019 at 11:50 PM (#5842160)
In the middle of episode 2 of Chernobyl, we *finally* get a scene reuniting Stellan Skarshard and Emily Watson (from Breaking the Waves.)


I think Chernobyl is both fascinating and excellent... been hyping it the other place - but to me?

- I read about the disaster previously and have been closely mapping the first two episodes to what we know (and that's the thing - there are still unknowns... even some, as I understand it, theoretical nuclear physics unknowns).

- Some dramatic liberties, of course - Watson represents an amalgam and it didn't exactly go down that way.

- I think they've done a really nice - even GREAT job - on accurately portraying the bureaucratic ennui and sloth of the late Soviet Union but without turning it into cardboard cutouts. It's a perfect mix and well-done, I think. Some outright wankers (and they existed)... some non-heroes at the administrative level who got dragged into reality rather than "appearances" and did ultimately come around.... and some actual heroes on the line (and they very much existed, too... firefighters, plant workers, etc).

But I think it's been really, really great stuff so far. Chilly, haunting, suspenseful and fascinating.
   412. PreservedFish Posted: May 15, 2019 at 07:12 AM (#5842179)
Does the Iron Throne still exist?
   413. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 15, 2019 at 07:32 AM (#5842187)
If RBG wins does she have to share the award with Inequality?
You'd think that Inequality would've gotten a nomination as Best Villain.
   414. Lassus Posted: May 15, 2019 at 07:36 AM (#5842190)
An amusing “whaaaa?” moment came on night 2 of the concert, when of all people who do we see in the pew of that Baptist church clapping and dancing with the congregation but....Mick Jagger!

Needed to ape something for the masses to take 50 years to figure out.
   415. Lassus Posted: May 15, 2019 at 07:38 AM (#5842192)
Does the Iron Throne still exist?

That is an awesome question. We didn't see the throne room during the destruction, though. It would be hilarious if it didn't.
   416. flournoy Posted: May 15, 2019 at 07:48 AM (#5842194)
It'll still exist. In her House of the Undying vision (hallucination? virtual reality?), Daenerys walked into a half-destroyed throne room covered in ash or snow, approached the throne, and reached out to touch it, but never did. Surely we'll get a mirror of that scene.
   417. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 15, 2019 at 07:50 AM (#5842195)
Another GoT death idea is that they kill off Daenerys as a rehash of the death of Ygritte, Arya serving in the role of Olly and shooting her in the back, then a tearful scene as Daenerys dies in Jon's arms. ("We should never have left that snowy valley we flew to on our dragons.") We have seen Arya practicing with her bow, just like Olly was an episode or two before the fight at Castle Black, and a reconciliation at the point of death could meet the "bittersweet" criteria.
   418. PreservedFish Posted: May 15, 2019 at 07:55 AM (#5842196)
It'll still exist. In her House of the Undying vision (hallucination? virtual reality?), Daenerys walked into a half-destroyed throne room covered in ash or snow, approached the throne, and reached out to touch it, but never did. Surely we'll get a mirror of that scene.

Man you guys are on top of this stuff. As much as I enjoy talking about Thrones, I can barely remember what happened season, to say nothing of the early years.
   419. Greg Pope Posted: May 15, 2019 at 09:15 AM (#5842208)
Now when the story ends with the kingdoms regaining their independence, we'll have that sense of closure for the world at large.

I never thought of that. That would actually be a really good ending. Nobody wins the game of thrones.

EDIT: I have never looked up any fan discussions, so I'm sure that there is every possible theory about the result out there.
   420. Greg Pope Posted: May 15, 2019 at 09:22 AM (#5842212)
Does the Iron Throne still exist?

Speaking of still existing, what is the current state and the future of the Night's Watch? As for the actual people, it seemed like Edd and Sam might have been the only ones left going into the battle of Winterfell. Last we had heard there were only 50, and if any others were left, many probably died in the battle. So Sam might be the only one, and he's with Gilly and has a kid on the way. So unless we're counting the conscripted wildlings, the people are basically gone. However, the wall still exists for most of its original length, and the castles are still mostly there. Along with the books and history.

Is it needed? The original purpose was to defend against the white walkers. Secondary was the wildlings, although over the years that became primary. The wildlings are presumably at peace with the north right now, but who knows how long that will last. Do they take down the wall? The wildlings still want to be the free folk, so it makes sense to leave it as a border between the seven kingdoms and the free folk. And borders are usually defended.
   421. Davo Posted: May 15, 2019 at 10:17 AM (#5842231)
I’m listening to a song called “Whirring” by The Joy Formidable for the very first time. But it sounds so familiar! So I thought and thought and thought and finally placed it:

The Lonely Island sampled it in their parody song “YOLO (You Oughtta Look Out”).

These “discoveries” always make me feel very very dumb.
   422. PreservedFish Posted: May 15, 2019 at 10:19 AM (#5842233)
The wall is significantly larger than the Great Wall of China, or any of the Roman aqueducts and such that still stood centuries after they were last used. With the North and Free Folk both devastated in the zombie wars, there's simply no manpower to take down the wall now. The political will might exist to do it today, with peace and with the knowledge that the Night King's death removes the wall's primary objective, but the effort would take generations, to the point where the history of the great zombie wars would probably become murky before they could even finish. So, the wall will stand forever.

The peace between the Free Folk and the North can't be expected to last for more than a generation, but I wonder if the land and climate to the north of the wall is fertile enough to support a real kingdom. Without an effective wall, I think the Free Folk would occasionally grow strong and then run amok in the south, much like the nomads of the Asian steppe would throughout our history, but would struggle to create a lasting base of power in their home. Genghis Khan took over the world, but soon his powerful descendants had largely assimilated to the cultures that they had supposedly conquered. The steppe always remained a land of goats and camels and felt tents.

I think eventually the gap in the wall would be manned, if not fixed, after some major event of wildling agitation. And the Night's Watch would still serve a purpose as a sort of penal colony.
   423. Greg Pope Posted: May 15, 2019 at 10:39 AM (#5842244)
The peace between the Free Folk and the North can't be expected to last for more than a generation, but I wonder if the land and climate to the north of the wall is fertile enough to support a real kingdom.

I agree with this, and the rest of your post. The peace won't last.

Do we know if the Night King is responsible for the years-long seasons in Westeros? Actually, do we know if the years-long seasons are a world wide phenomenon? Martin has said that there's a supernatural explanation, but hasn't expanded on it at all. However, it's likely that north of the wall is like the arctic while the kingdom of the north is like Canada. We may get a book explanation, but there's no way the show has time to address this.

Which does bring up another point. Whether it's caused by the long seasons or not, the land north of the wall is knows as the Land of Always Winter. So how are there trees up there? The show has always shown trees north of the wall without any leaves, like they would be in a normal winter. But if there's never any summer, then how did they grow in the first place?
   424. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: May 15, 2019 at 10:40 AM (#5842245)
Now when the story ends with the kingdoms regaining their independence, we'll have that sense of closure for the world at large.
I'm on board with this, but only if it's pretty clear that they will be variously allied/at war with each other again in the not-at-all-distant future. Because people.
   425. PreservedFish Posted: May 15, 2019 at 11:01 AM (#5842253)
Would fans be disappointed with an ending that doesn't give us an unambiguous King or Queen of Westeros? I wouldn't in the slightest, as that feels like a result that would be authentic to the story, and I've always figured the "who will end up on the iron throne" thing has been more of an HBO marketing gimmick than a true concern of most of the characters in the story (with the exception of Varys and the major claimants such as Dany and Stannis).
   426. flournoy Posted: May 15, 2019 at 11:09 AM (#5842256)
Whether it's caused by the long seasons or not, the land north of the wall is knows as the Land of Always Winter.


The Lands of Always Winter are part of the land north of the wall, not the entire region. It's well north of the Haunted Forest and the Frostfangs. I think the only glimpse of it we get in the show happens when the White Walkers bring Craster's last son to some sort of ritual site for the Night King to turn him. (It's never specified where that is, though, so who knows.) I think the Lands of Always Winter are basically just the uncharted areas north of the northernmost Wildling settlements.

I'm on board with this, but only if it's pretty clear that they will be variously allied/at war with each other again in the not-at-all-distant future. Because people.


I hope the show (if it goes the route I suggested) leaves that mostly to the viewers' imaginations. If you want to believe that King Bronn of the Reach, First of His Name has peaceful relations with King Gendry Baratheon of the Stormlands, then have at it. If not, then that's fine too. Either way, the world will go on.
   427. Greg Pope Posted: May 15, 2019 at 11:12 AM (#5842258)
The Lands of Always Winter are part of the land north of the wall, not the entire region.

Ah, I didn't get that. So there are seasons in the southern parts north of the wall, which explains the presence of trees.
   428. Lassus Posted: May 15, 2019 at 11:13 AM (#5842259)
I think eventually the gap in the wall would be manned, if not fixed

Is there no magic in that wall in the TV show? I don't know that men CAN rebuild it.
   429. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 15, 2019 at 11:25 AM (#5842263)
I think the Wildlings & the North will be at peace for more than a generation. The populations of both, especially the Wildlings, have been completely devastated, and the Gift (the area south of the Wall that the Night's Watch controlled) has been badly underpopulated for a while. There's going to be a lot of population growth required before there's any sort of competition for resources. I also think that without a complete wall there, the Wildlings might be brought more into the "civilized system" of Westeros through trade and other forms of exchange. But because there aren't enough resources north of the wall to allow them to grow into a large and unified group, they won't provide the same sort of challenge to the North that borderlands barbarians traditionally have.
   430. Greg Pope Posted: May 15, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5842299)
Is there no magic in that wall in the TV show? I don't know that men CAN rebuild it.

There is. I think that Benjen said that he couldn't pass it. But the Night's Watch has been repairing it for thousands of years, and really, only a small portion was destroyed. Even in the books, it's just a vague "spells" that protect the wall.

Also, the magic doesn't keep out the wildlings, it keeps out the wights and the White Walkers. Which no longer exist. I don't think that the magic keeps it intact or anything. So if they rebuild it and that areas isn't magic any more, it's not a big deal.
   431. Lassus Posted: May 15, 2019 at 12:08 PM (#5842301)
Ah. I had the impression - seemingly incorrectly - that it was magic that keeps the wall UP. Did I make that up, or does it say - or, imply? - so in the books?
   432. Greg Pope Posted: May 15, 2019 at 12:39 PM (#5842316)
I mean, it is a 700 foot high wall made of ice, so it's possible that magic keeps it up. But I'm pretty sure that the Watch spends time repairing it. I'm not sure exactly how. Bring in more ice from somewhere?
   433. Greg Pope Posted: May 15, 2019 at 12:49 PM (#5842319)
From A Wiki of Ice and Fire (which is based on the books, there's a different wiki for the show):

The Wall stretches for three hundred miles and is approximately seven hundred feet tall. It is made of solid ice, stone, and earth


Led by Othell Yarwyck, the First Builder, the builders of the Watch monitor and repair the Wall.


The Night's Watch has forgotten its true purpose, Tarly. You don't build a wall seven hundred feet high to keep savages in skins from stealing women. The Wall was made to guard the realms of men ... and not against other men, which is all the wildlings are when you come right down to it. Too many years, Tarly, too many hundreds and thousands of years. We lost sight of the true enemy.
—Jeor Mormont to Samwell Tarly


It's a wiki and I didn't bother to check the sources, but the sources reference the books so I'm pretty sure it's correct.
   434. PreservedFish Posted: May 15, 2019 at 12:51 PM (#5842322)
I didn't even realize it was made out of solid ice. If there are trees north of the wall, but the wall is in permafrost, then it does sound like there might be some magic involved.

Edit > or it's not, based on #433
   435. Hexx Posted: May 15, 2019 at 12:56 PM (#5842325)
I'm not sure exactly how. Bring in more ice from somewhere?


I assume that's what the ice guys at the beginning of Frozen are working on.
   436. flournoy Posted: May 15, 2019 at 12:57 PM (#5842326)
That's all correct. The books detail that the builders are in charge of laying down gravel on the top of the wall so that the Watchmen can safely patrol from atop. They also build up spots along the wall where it has melted away too much, and maintain the tunnels, gates, and fortifications. The footing along the top of the wall is very treacherous in modern times, since the Nights Watch hasn't had the manpower to properly maintain it.
   437. Davo Posted: May 15, 2019 at 12:57 PM (#5842327)
The Ice Wall is just a metaphor for Climate Change, right? If so, damn it would be depressing if they can “fix” it with “magic”!
   438. PreservedFish Posted: May 15, 2019 at 12:58 PM (#5842329)
Anyway, forget the ice, I've always been more attracted by the tropical climes across the Narrow Sea and around about Slaver's Bay. What do you think is going on there these days?
   439. Dr. Vaux Posted: May 15, 2019 at 01:06 PM (#5842334)
That's exactly what we will fix it with. In modern times, magic is called technology. Doomsday scenarios always forget that technology advances, and that development focuses on the biggest anticipated problems.
   440. flournoy Posted: May 15, 2019 at 01:09 PM (#5842338)
I assume Slaver's Bay (or the "Bay of Dragons"... er, make that "Bay of Dragon") is a total disaster. The Free Cities are probably carrying on without any regard to the Ghiscari or Westerosi turmoil.
   441. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: May 15, 2019 at 02:11 PM (#5842361)
Anyway, forget the ice, I've always been more attracted by the tropical climes across the Narrow Sea and around about Slaver's Bay.


Essos is a weird, weird place ...
   442. Davo Posted: May 15, 2019 at 02:31 PM (#5842371)
Davo's April/May 2019 Watchlist BECAUSE THIS IS IMPORTANT

GOOD
1. Game Night (2018, John Francis Daley)
2. Little Sister (2016, Zach Clark)
3. Amazing Grace (1972/2018, Sydney Pollack/Alan Elliott)

NOT BAD
4. Us (2019, Jordan Peele)
5. Zarafa (2012, Remi Bezancon)

BAD
6. The Wandering Earth (2019, Frant Gwo)
7. Pokemon Detective Pikachu (2019, Rob Letterman)
8. Second Act (2018, Peter Segal)
9. Monsters, Inc. (2001, Pete Docter)
10. Ralph Breaks the Internet (2018, Rich Moore)

UNSPEAKABLY BAD

11. Pete's Dragon (1977, Don Chaffey)
12. On the Basis of Sex (2018, Mimi Leder)
13. Life Itself (2018, Dan Fogelman)
   443. Davo Posted: May 15, 2019 at 02:35 PM (#5842374)
Posted because I might never watch a movie again!
   444. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 15, 2019 at 02:35 PM (#5842376)
The Ice Wall is just a metaphor for Climate Change, right? If so, damn it would be depressing if they can “fix” it with “magic”!
The Wall was never a metaphor for climate change, it was the Night King and his breaching of the Wall might have been a metaphor for climate change. The NK's end on the show sidestepped it. Or at least I'm pretty sure that we aren't going to solve climate change by having a young assassin stab it in the stomach.
   445. Davo Posted: May 15, 2019 at 02:52 PM (#5842387)
I'm gonna say something nice about all the BAD movies I saw:

6. The Wandering Earth: The boy has a robot arm. The car has a giant orb instead of a steering wheel.
7. Pokemon Detective Pikachu: The lighting in the city night scenes was expressive, it felt like a real neo-noir, not a cheap green-screened knockoff.
8. Second Act: It didn't end in the exact super-obvious way this story always ends. (The premise is: J-Lo lies on her resume to get an amazing job, but uses her street smarts to land The Big Account, but then she has a crisis of conscience and admits to her boss that she lied to get there.)
9. Monsters Inc.: Opening credit sequence is imaginative.
10. Ralph Breaks the Internet: Some of the jokes made me laugh.

11. Pete's Dragon: I like the part where the dragon walks through the wall of the school building and it leaves a hole in the wall that is perfectly dragon-shaped. Cartoon-logic!
12. On the Basis of Sex: I actually kinda like that Armie Hammer's character has no arc whatsoever, he's just the guy who was married to the main character. It's the exact way biopics about men always treat the *wife* so I'm glad they didn't apply a double-standard. MR RBG is just the guy who makes her coffee.
13. Life Itself: The opening scene with Samuel L Jackson is so wildly unusual and unexpected that my wife and I honestly thought we'd rented the wrong movie at first. Also: this movie is never ever ever boring.
   446. Lassus Posted: May 15, 2019 at 03:26 PM (#5842422)
Some things I'm reading now are that Varys, writing letters at the start of the episode, got SOME of those letters out. Dorne, Iron Islands, the Vail, etc.. If THEY come to support Jon over Dany, and if they simply have Dany raze ALL of them, and Daario and his second sons, and Jon, and then have the series end with Dany presiding over ruins and the dead, that would be quite something.
   447. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 15, 2019 at 03:56 PM (#5842448)
That would essentially be compressing World War II into a single episode, which is probably a bridge too far (not the Richard Attenborough movie) even for D&D.
   448. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: May 15, 2019 at 04:05 PM (#5842462)
Davo, your current username still makes me chuckle.
   449. Davo Posted: May 15, 2019 at 04:16 PM (#5842471)
BEST ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY!!!!!!!!
   450. Davo Posted: May 15, 2019 at 05:16 PM (#5842512)
Re 402, here’s a YouTube clip from the movie of Aretha singing “Climbing Higher Mountains.”

A, uh, familiar face pops up in the back row at around the 2:00 mark.
   451. Rennie's Tenet Posted: May 15, 2019 at 05:20 PM (#5842517)
I have a white German Shepherd, and people are always stopping us and saying that he looks like the wolves in this show. How are the wolves making out as the series moves toward an end?
   452. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: May 15, 2019 at 05:22 PM (#5842519)
Direwolves?

GoT has direwolves??

Oh, my sweet Summer child ...
   453. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 15, 2019 at 05:26 PM (#5842520)
which is probably a bridge too far (not the Richard Attenborough movie)

Really good movie, BTW. Very historically accurate.
   454. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: May 15, 2019 at 08:35 PM (#5842572)
I've got lunatics laughing at me from the woods. My original plan has been scuppered now that the jeeps haven't arrived. My communications are completely broken down. Do you really believe any of that can be helped by a cup of tea?
   455. PreservedFish Posted: May 15, 2019 at 10:30 PM (#5842603)
I have a white German Shepherd, and people are always stopping us and saying that he looks like the wolves in this show. How are the wolves making out as the series moves toward an end?


They have died one by one, sometimes gruesomely. Fans assumed that the last wolf standing would have some important role to play, but in a recent episode the hero blithely said "goodbye" to the wolf and now we're not likely to see him again.
   456. flournoy Posted: May 15, 2019 at 10:34 PM (#5842607)
There are two direwolves left!
   457. Davo Posted: May 16, 2019 at 12:58 AM (#5842639)
   458. Lassus Posted: May 16, 2019 at 06:49 AM (#5842644)
Which is possibly the stupidest and most insulting, disrespectful shit I've ever heard. Those people should be fucking ashamed of themselves. Mostly for idiocy, the latter is secondary.
   459. PreservedFish Posted: May 16, 2019 at 07:18 AM (#5842645)
The problem with this saga is that it is basically unfilmable. You could say that HBO butchered GRRM's creation, but GRRM, faced with the same problems, is himself apparently incapable of finishing the story in prose. Although I don't like many of the decisions that HBO has made in recent seasons, I think about 50% of the issues are caused by the insane scope of the story: it would have been impossible to wrap this thing up without winnowing the story, changing the atmosphere, and warp-speeding the narrative.
   460. flournoy Posted: May 16, 2019 at 07:34 AM (#5842648)
Idiots on the internet are going to do idiotic things on the internet. Sometimes they bring 15,999 of their friends along.
   461. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 16, 2019 at 07:45 AM (#5842650)
which is probably a bridge too far (not the Richard Attenborough movie)

Really good movie, BTW. Very historically accurate.
I assume that your judgment doesn't cover Gene Hackman's Polish accent.
   462. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: May 16, 2019 at 08:47 AM (#5842657)
They have died one by one, sometimes gruesomely. Fans assumed that the last wolf standing would have some important role to play, but in a recent episode the hero blithely said "goodbye" to the wolf and now we're not likely to see him again.
I'm increasingly sure that sending Ghost away was a feint, and we will see him in the finale, quite possibly involving a Bran warg. (Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see Tormund back as well.)

The Starks are central to Martin's tale, and seemingly the house he is most sympathetic to, and the dire wolf is their sigil. Seems surpassingly unlikely to me that perfunctory goodbye is the end.
   463. Greg Pope Posted: May 16, 2019 at 09:18 AM (#5842662)
The Starks are central to Martin's tale, and seemingly the house he is most sympathetic to, and the dire wolf is their sigil. Seems surpassingly unlikely to me that perfunctory goodbye is the end.

I'm not sure how they're going to tie things in since the main action is still in Kings Landing and Winterfell is far away and they only have one episode left.
   464. PreservedFish Posted: May 16, 2019 at 09:27 AM (#5842664)
I'm not sure how they're going to tie things in since the main action is still in Kings Landing and Winterfell is far away and they only have one episode left.

Well, they've ceased to care about time or distance, so nobody should be surprised to see them employ that action movie trope where some ally, presumed dead or forgotten or departed, shows up to save the day. That would be hella dumb of course, but I mean, it wouldn't be a shocker.

Also, yes, I forgot that Arya's wolf is still out there, though apparently gone feral. I think if her wolf was going to have a magic moment, it might have been in place of the mysterious horse at the conclusion of the last episode.
   465. Lassus Posted: May 16, 2019 at 09:27 AM (#5842665)
I'm not sure how they're going to tie things in since the main action is still in Kings Landing and Winterfell is far away and they only have one episode left.
Well, they've ceased to care about time or distance...


To be fair, it's not really a stretch to think that Ghost had left Winterfell already, if he shows up in Kings Landing. And for all we know, Jon may head back north at the end of the episode.


One of the awesomest theories I've seen recently is that Jaime IS NOT DEAD YET, based on.... a lack of Instagram postings or interviews from Nikacovic Philomena Blaszek-Fraljok, or whatever his name is, following his character's ALLEGED death (unlike, say, Cersei or Missandei or Jorah or whatever).
   466. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: May 16, 2019 at 09:28 AM (#5842666)
I'm not sure how they're going to tie things in since the main action is still in Kings Landing and Winterfell is far away and they only have one episode left.
Argh, good point. I think I mistook the ashes in the "next on" trailer for snow and thought Winterfell.

Then again, surely they have to get Sansa at least in the same location as the rest, yes?
   467. . Posted: May 16, 2019 at 09:29 AM (#5842667)
Sure -- the beheading of Ned, the benevolent monarch, by a lunatic, barely pubescent, barely legitimate Lannister, was pretty clearly supposed to have been the dramatic act around which all revolved and unfolded. It did for awhile, but that's long since been cast aside.
   468. Lassus Posted: May 16, 2019 at 09:36 AM (#5842669)
They may also start the last episode a week or three after the previous one. I mean, probably not, but I think a time jump like that would be kind of neat.
   469. PreservedFish Posted: May 16, 2019 at 09:36 AM (#5842670)
One of the awesomest theories I've seen recently is that Jaime IS NOT DEAD YET, based on.... a lack of Instagram postings or interviews from Nikacovic Philomena Blaszek-Fraljok, or whatever his name is, following his character's ALLEGED death (unlike, say, Cersei or Missandei or Jorah or whatever).


I feel like you have one of these every week, and they're always wrong, although entertaining. Jaime had a sword run through his belly, he should've been dead long before the ceiling crushed him, but I guess you're right that we didn't see his corpse yet.
   470. Lassus Posted: May 16, 2019 at 09:39 AM (#5842671)
I feel like you have one of these every week, and they're always wrong, although entertaining.

That would be the purpose! (I admit, I liked the MOAR DRAGONZ! theory, but it was way better without.)

Also pretty sure that Tyrion isn't actually going to be outed as a secret dragon-riding Targaryen.
   471. flournoy Posted: May 16, 2019 at 10:01 AM (#5842682)
Then again, surely they have to get Sansa at least in the same location as the rest, yes?


I don't know... I find it really hard to come up with a reason for her to go to Kings Landing. And even harder to come up with a reason for Bran to do so. (Failing a distant time skip of months or years.) I can't imagine that Sansa and Bran won't be present in the finale, so I imagine they'll still be in Winterfell. I'm hoping for a big Bran moment, though I'm not sure exactly what. His story seems incomplete.

Also pretty sure that Tyrion isn't actually going to be outed as a secret dragon-riding Targaryen.


I'm familiar with those theories, and boy am I glad that they seem to be untrue. It takes a lot of air out of Tyrion's story if he isn't actually Tywin's son. In a lot of ways, Tyrion is more like Tywin than Jaime or Cersei, yet Tywin could never accept him, and that led to his downfall.

Well, they've ceased to care about time or distance


I see this sentiment all the time, and I just don't think it's true. (Or rather, it was never true that they did "care.") In the very first episode of the show, Jaime and Cersei are in Kings Landing looking at Jon Arryn's dead body. Then about a scene and a half later, they're in Winterfell, and we're given to accept that a month or two has passed in the meantime. If there's nothing interesting or relevant to show, they just won't show it, and that's always been the case.
   472. Davo Posted: May 16, 2019 at 10:08 AM (#5842690)
This might be a stretch, but it occurred to me:

What if the reference to Batman vs Superman at the end of the last episode wasn’t just copying a popular aesthetic; what if it was a breadcrumb, hinting that the finale is going to ape that film’s most famous scene (the “Martha” scene, where Batman spares Superman’s life after Superman reminds him of their linked parentage)?

I haven’t followed all the soap opera subplots on Game of Thrones, so: are there two characters who could fight each other for the throne on Sunday who have the same parent?

It’s a thought. A bad one! But a thought!
   473. flournoy Posted: May 16, 2019 at 10:20 AM (#5842698)
Well, very prominently, one whose father is the other one's grandfather.
   474. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 16, 2019 at 10:34 AM (#5842706)
Then again, surely they have to get Sansa at least in the same location as the rest, yes?
The obvious way to do this would be to have Dany fly to Winterfell on her dragon with the purpose of incinerating the person she sees as her latest arch nemesis. It wouldn't involve much of a time skip if she left her armies behind (or if they were largely annihilated in some fratricidal struggle with the remnants of everyone else), and it would allow Bran to warg into Drogon and give him an anyeurism and then have someone random kill Dany. You could imagine her thinking she'd be invincible on Drogon, attacking someplace without any sort of anti-dragon defenses in place.
   475. flournoy Posted: May 16, 2019 at 10:39 AM (#5842710)
All right, that's the one. I want to see Bran warg into Drogon, and have Bran/Drogon eat Daenerys. Haha.

In the books, there's a Wildling warg who wargs into some of his beasts and eats people, and it's considered an unthinkable act, even among Wildlings.
   476. Davo Posted: May 16, 2019 at 10:42 AM (#5842714)
473- And Jon/ Snow/Arya/Sansa/WheelchairBoy are all siblings too, right?
   477. flournoy Posted: May 16, 2019 at 10:47 AM (#5842716)
Sansa, Arya, and Bran (Wheelchair Boy) are siblings. Jon is technically their cousin, but they consider him a sibling, and for all intents and purposes, he is. They will not be fighting among themselves for the throne.

With the recent deaths of the Hound, the Mountain, Jaime, Cersei, Euron, Theon, Jorah Mormont, Lyanna Mormont, Viserion (again), and Rhaegal, we're running perilously low on surviving blood relations.

EDIT: Were the dragons related by blood? Do we have any reason to believe that their eggs were all laid by the same mother? I guess not.
   478. PreservedFish Posted: May 16, 2019 at 11:01 AM (#5842739)
There's no ####### way that Thrones deliberately referenced Batman vs Superman in order to drop a coded hint about the final episode.
   479. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 16, 2019 at 11:01 AM (#5842741)
Presumably Sam's sister and mother are still out there. Sam dueling his sister for the throne would certainly be an unexpected twist.
   480. Lassus Posted: May 16, 2019 at 11:02 AM (#5842742)
Re: #478, Davo is the SBB on acid of the pop-culture thread.
   481. flournoy Posted: May 16, 2019 at 11:06 AM (#5842747)
Who would win in a fist fight between Bran Stark and Robin Arryn? (No warging allowed.)
   482. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 16, 2019 at 11:07 AM (#5842748)
So...how about all of those things out there in pop culture that aren't Game of Thrones?
   483. PreservedFish Posted: May 16, 2019 at 11:13 AM (#5842752)
We were talking about Booker Prize winning books a bit ago. I just started AS Byatt's Possession. I remember this book being very popular in the 90s, easily found in bookstores, and it made the bestseller list. I find that kind of amazing. I was an English major at a good college, and I know who John Donne and Roland Barthes are, and I feel like I just barely have the knowledge base that's required to enjoy this thing. It is essentially written to be appealing to English literature academics, and nobody else.
   484. Davo Posted: May 16, 2019 at 11:18 AM (#5842761)
483-That’s the one LaBute adapted into a film, right? I haven’t seen it but from your description it sounds unfilmable!

(Though I should add that I have a special place in my heart for the made-for-TV movie Wit, which stars Emma Thompson as an English professor who specializes in John Donne.)
   485. PreservedFish Posted: May 16, 2019 at 11:32 AM (#5842771)
It looks like they made it into a movie with several recognizable actors. It's possible that it gets a lot steamier, but at the moment it's about two courtships, one modern day, one Victorian, each of which is proceeding at a very slow, polite, dainty pace, not that there isn't an audience for that kind of thing. You could make a popular movie built on two romances and an intellectual adventure, so I see it.

But the unique appeal of the book is the way that the author inhabits the Victorian characters, both fictional writers, one a lauded "ventriloquist" capable of poetry using a huge range of styles, voices, subjects etc, and the other a meek poetess that adapts fairy tales. There are thousands of lines of original poetry and stories, dozens of letters, all written in these complex Victorian voices. That part would indeed be practically unfilmable.
   486. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 16, 2019 at 11:35 AM (#5842772)
You could make a popular movie built on two romances and an intellectual adventure, so I see it.
Maybe, as long as the romances were between zombies and werewolves.
   487. Davo Posted: May 16, 2019 at 11:40 AM (#5842775)
Are Arya and Daenerys related at all? That would be the most direct correlation to Batman and the Supes.
   488. PreservedFish Posted: May 16, 2019 at 11:45 AM (#5842780)
How are Batman and Superman related?
   489. Davo Posted: May 16, 2019 at 11:45 AM (#5842782)
They’re not; in the movie Superman appeals to Batman’s sense of mercy by revealing that their mothers have the same name.
   490. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 16, 2019 at 11:53 AM (#5842785)
Possession gets steamier, or at least there is some implied steaminess. I haven't seen the movie, but my guess is that the Victorian sections are much more live-action, with occasional poetry voice-overs, and steaminess is less implied and more spelled out. So it becomes a detective story interspersed with people in period costume groping each other. Cersei Lannister is in it!

There's also a somewhat disappointing multipart radio drama adaptation, in case anyone is interested.

One of Ms McGunnigle's grad school chums claimed that Possession is the only book that shows how heroic note taking on index cards can be.
   491. Lassus Posted: May 16, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5842787)
They’re not; in the movie Superman appeals to Batman’s sense of mercy by revealing that their mothers have the same name.

That is... generous with the facts, especially if you think this is some kind of active appeal. Superman's defeated, mumbling, and incoherent, and when Batman hears his own mother's name as Superman is losing his mind over the danger Lex presents to HIS mother of the same name, Batman freaks out and then Lois is the one who actually reveals WTF Superman is talking about.
   492. PreservedFish Posted: May 16, 2019 at 12:20 PM (#5842799)
There was some literal steaminess in last night's reading. The man and woman were forced to share a bathroom in a frosty old mansion, and the woman showered first, which made the bathroom warm and sweet-smelling when the man used it. Also they stumbled into each other, and the man briefly grasped the woman's "haunch." Let me know if this is too erotic for some of you, don't want you getting boners at work.
   493. Davo Posted: May 16, 2019 at 01:10 PM (#5842812)
   494. Davo Posted: May 16, 2019 at 01:42 PM (#5842825)
Of course GOT hired the Justice League cinematographer to lens Sunday’s episode. Maybe the guy just really loves the image of a white horse rising from the ashes. It’s a great image!
   495. jmurph Posted: May 16, 2019 at 01:59 PM (#5842830)
Timely for the thread: a response to the "let people enjoy things" meme. It's somewhat overheated in my mind (some of it tongue-in-cheek, I think), but pretty compelling. I more agree than disagree, I think, on first read.
   496. Davo Posted: May 16, 2019 at 02:08 PM (#5842834)
Anyway I’ll call my shot like Babe Ruth and say the finale is Arya opting to spare Daenerys’s life because she’s reminded of their shared ancestry through Jon. Or whatever, I’m not good at family tree stuff. But: that.

And if I’m right everyone has to write a 6-page paper on the scene in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice where Holly Hunter drinks Lex Luthor’s pee.
   497. Davo Posted: May 16, 2019 at 02:11 PM (#5842835)
   498. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 16, 2019 at 02:11 PM (#5842836)
I more agree than disagree, I think, on first read.
Yeah...yeah, I think I like it.
   499. Davo Posted: May 16, 2019 at 02:47 PM (#5842846)
The Pokemon Detective Pikachu writers were on a movie podcast I like, and were asked to name their absolute dream project. One answered “A remake of The Magnificent Seven where all the characters are breakfast cereal mascots.”

So. Coming soon to a theater near you!
   500. Davo Posted: May 16, 2019 at 03:23 PM (#5842853)
Amazon announced today they have cancelled THE TICK after 2 seasons.
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