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Wednesday, May 01, 2019

OT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (May 2019)

Milch is here to watch, not interfere. He was a notorious micromanager during Deadwood’s original run, ordering reshoots if he didn’t like the way a scene was playing and dictating new dialogue from the sidelines for the cast to repeat. McShane has spoken of top-to-bottom rewrites being handed to actors just before the cameras rolled, the pages still hot from the copier.

This time, Milch is entrusting the day-to-day execution to his collaborators, among them the director Daniel Minahan, a series veteran, and his co–executive producer Regina Corrado, who started out as a writer on the series in 2005.

But his serenity is also the by-product of a greater urge to let go and accept what life has in store, even if it’s not what he asked for.

It’s here that we come to the matter of David Milch’s Alzheimer’s diagnosis.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: May 01, 2019 at 05:48 AM | 969 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movies, music, off-topic, television, whatever else belongs under the rubric of 'popular culture'

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   701. PreservedFish Posted: May 21, 2019 at 11:31 AM (#5844182)
flip
   702. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: May 21, 2019 at 11:32 AM (#5844184)
Cortez the Killer - Built to Spill


Sorry, no.

Neil is one of the Lords of the Thumb Finger Guitarists, but that is one of the songs he kills. Destroys it. ####### kills it.
   703. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: May 21, 2019 at 11:40 AM (#5844187)
[edit] That's not even the the best stanzas of the damn song. ####.


And now every April I sit on my porch
And I watch the parade pass before me
I see my old comrades, how proudly they march
Reliving their dreams of past glory
I see the old men, all twisted and torn
The forgotten heroes of a forgotten war
And the young people ask me, What are they marching for?
And I ask myself the same question
And the band plays Waltzing Matilda
And the old men still answer the call
But year after year their numbers get fewer
Some day no one will march there at all
   704. manchestermets Posted: May 21, 2019 at 11:44 AM (#5844193)
I want to make it clear that I do have problems with plenty of the writing post-book. As mentioned, ... anything happening within Dorne,


Hell, that wasn't even post book really was it? It was just that they (wisely) chose not to do the actual Dorne stuff from the books with Quentyn, so had to cobble something together instead since they presumably felt there should be some follow-up to Oberyn's death.
   705. Lassus Posted: May 21, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5844199)
Fountains of Wayne - '...baby one more time'
Redd Kross - 'Yesterday Once More'
   706. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 21, 2019 at 12:11 PM (#5844213)
100,000 Fireflies - Superchunk
Baldrick, I am going to hunt you down and murder you for writing this. You have been warned.
   707. Greg Pope Posted: May 21, 2019 at 12:20 PM (#5844223)
covers that are better than the original.

Funky Town by Pseudo Echo
   708. PreservedFish Posted: May 21, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5844231)
I offended a friend of mine the other day - he put on a country (?) cover of Jay-Z's 99 Problems, and I immediately scoffed at it.

Me: "Aren't you tired of really white guys doing really white (and silly) covers of rap songs? That hasn't been funny for like 15 years."
Him: "Is that a thing? I didn't realize."
Me: "You never heard that Boyz in the Hood cover? Or Gin n Juice?"
Him: "Nope"
   709. Panik on the streets of Flushing! (Trout! Trout!) Posted: May 21, 2019 at 12:44 PM (#5844233)
covers that are better than the original.


Isaac Hayes--Walk On By
Springsteen--Jersey Girl
The Clash-- Pressure Drop
   710. Wayne Newton's pet monkey (gef, talking mongoose) Posted: May 21, 2019 at 12:48 PM (#5844234)
Me: "Aren't you tired of really white guys doing really white (and silly) covers of rap songs? That hasn't been funny for like 15 years."
Him: "Is that a thing? I didn't realize."
Me: "You never heard that Boyz in the Hood cover? Or Gin n Juice?"
Him: "Nope"


Never heard the originals, any covers ... couldn't tell you did them if my life depended on it.

*shrug*
   711. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 21, 2019 at 12:53 PM (#5844237)
covers that are better than the original


I think the best version of "And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda" is June Tabor's.
"Sweet Jane" - Mott the Hoople
"I'll Keep It With Mine" - Fairport Convention (Dylan never released an official version, a couple of outtakes appearing on "Biograph" and his Bootleg series, but Fairport's cover is so good I'm going to include it anyway)
"It's All Too Much" - Steve Hillage
   712. Wayne Newton's pet monkey (gef, talking mongoose) Posted: May 21, 2019 at 12:57 PM (#5844239)
Dunno if it would count (probably not), but Lou Reed's performance of Real Good Time Together on Street Hassle is quite a bit better than the Velvets' original live version recorded several years earlier.

For that matter, Patti Smith's live renditions a couple of years before Street Hassle are pretty good as well.
   713. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:01 PM (#5844243)
Never heard the originals, any covers ... couldn't tell you did them if my life depended on it.

Seconded.
   714. Swoboda is freedom Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:01 PM (#5844244)
Hallelujah- Jeff Buckley, though the Leonard Cohen version is pretty good.
Hurt- Johnny Cash
Ike and Tina Turner- Proud Mary
Amy Winehouse- Valerie
   715. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:04 PM (#5844246)
Hallelujah- Jeff Buckley, though the Leonard Cohen version is pretty good.

Seconded. Never liked the song until the cover.
   716. Swoboda is freedom Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:07 PM (#5844249)
Movies that are better than original

Maltese Falcon- John Huston version
Ocean's Eleven- the Rat Pack was walking through it between shows.
The Thing- Bigger budget and better special effects than Arness in a mask.
The Fly- ditto
Scarface- Muni's version very early in sound, stiff
Heat- Much better actors, bigger budget
   717. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:11 PM (#5844252)
The John Cale cover of Hallelujah is my favorite.

Johnny Cash's version of Sting's I Hung My Head is the best song of all time!
   718. Howie Menckel Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:15 PM (#5844255)
Me and Bobby McGee - Janis Joplin

order of release, 1969-73:
Roger Miller
The Stonemans
Kenny Rogers and The First Edition
Charley Pride
Ramblin' Jack Elliott
The Statler Brothers
Gordon Lightfoot
Kris Kristofferson
Bill Haley & The Comets
Sam The Sham
Janis Joplin
Jerry Lee Lewis
The Grateful Dead
Dottie West
Loretta Lynn
Johnny Cash
Jeannie C. Riley
Waylon Jennings
Chet Atkins
Olivia Newton-John

since the 1980s: Joan Baez, Blind Melon, Melissa Etheridge, LeAnn Rimes, Anne Murray, Jennifer Love Hewitt, Jerry Jeff Walker, Pink, Dolly Parton, Arlo Guthrie, Tori Amos

I did not know that Joplin recorded this song only a couple of days before she died.
   719. Howie Menckel Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:17 PM (#5844256)
Hallelujah- Jeff Buckley, though the Leonard Cohen version is pretty good.

the k.d lang version live in Winnipeg steals the trophy
   720. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:20 PM (#5844258)
Shame on you all.

Hendrix' cover of Dylan's All Along the Watchtower. I've seen Dylan do it live - and he even said something to the effect of "I didn't know when I wrote it that it was for Jimi, but it was".

The Bear McCreary reimaging for Battlestar Galactica (another reimaging better than the original) is also quite good.
   721. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:24 PM (#5844264)
I offended a friend of mine the other day - he put on a country (?) cover of Jay-Z's 99 Problems, and I immediately scoffed at it.

Me: "Aren't you tired of really white guys doing really white (and silly) covers of rap songs? That hasn't been funny for like 15 years."
Him: "Is that a thing? I didn't realize."
Me: "You never heard that Boyz in the Hood cover? Or Gin n Juice?"
Him: "Nope"


The Gourds Gin n Juice remains awesome to this day.

I still love the fact that an awful lot of people misattribute it to Phish because it originally went viral via Napster and someone mucking it up...
   722. Lassus Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:29 PM (#5844270)
Hallelujah- Jeff Buckley, though the Leonard Cohen version is pretty good.
the k.d lang version live in Winnipeg steals the trophy


I guess none of you were at the wedding gig I sang where the bride wanted it for her processional. I, uh, changed some of the words.
   723. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:32 PM (#5844273)
I guess none of you were at the wedding where it was requested as the Bride's processional. I, uh, changed some of the words.

I've always been puzzled when people use Sinatra's Strangers in the Night as a wedding song. It's like, have you ever actually listened to the song?
   724. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:41 PM (#5844278)
I guess none of you were at the wedding gig I sang where the bride wanted it for her processional. I, uh, changed some of the words.

I guess to the bride the song sounded like lalalalalala Hallelujah! lalalalalalalala. Like how a dog only hears it's name when you're jabbering at it.
   725. Panik on the streets of Flushing! (Trout! Trout!) Posted: May 21, 2019 at 01:57 PM (#5844287)
Elvis Costello's cover of Nick Lowe's "Peace Love and Understanding" is pretty good.
   726. Austin Kearns: The Spy Who Shagged Flies Posted: May 21, 2019 at 02:20 PM (#5844305)
The Clash version of "I Fought the Law"

Probably some of Joe Cocker's covers, like "Feelin' Alright"

And of course anything by Dread Zeppelin (kidding, but only kinda).
   727. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: May 21, 2019 at 02:20 PM (#5844306)
Shame on you all.

Hendrix' cover of Dylan's All Along the Watchtower. I've seen Dylan do it live - and he even said something to the effect of "I didn't know when I wrote it that it was for Jimi, but it was".


Eh??? I literally put it into the question ...

The Gourds Gin n Juice remains awesome to this day.


Quoted for the truth.

Hurt- Johnny Cash


Also quoted for the the truth.

But here's a curveball.

Senor.

Jerry Garcia Band.

Bob's lyrics filtered through Jerry's ####### broken is just heartbreaking. I never liked The Dead, but somehow I do like JGB. Odd that ...

Also, The Thing rocks. Ennio helps (one of his best), but I'd die on any hill for that movie ... one of the memorable last scenes. Not a perfect movie, but perfect, if you know what I mean.


   728. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: May 21, 2019 at 02:35 PM (#5844313)
Eh??? I literally put it into the question ...


It certainly wasn't "Wild Thing" ... Christ, Hendrix's "Wild Thing" at "Live In Monterey" might be the most overrated ####### song (and concert) ever. And I've been collecting Hendrix since I had to trade cassettes to do it.

And he's not the only reason I love music, but he's the biggest one. Him dying before he got to record with Miles, well, Miles spent 10 years trying to capture what that would have sounded like ...
   729. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: May 21, 2019 at 02:54 PM (#5844323)
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/wolf-totem-чонон-сүлдэт-wolf-totem-wolfs-totem.html

Ten thunderbolts strike at the same time
A hundred hearts energized in the thundering roar
Simultaneously a thousand colliding thunderbolts
And too, ten thousand lightning strikes in the heavens


Every damn one of you should go see The Hu.

Mongolian Throat Metal should be supported.
   730. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: May 21, 2019 at 02:55 PM (#5844325)
   731. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 21, 2019 at 02:55 PM (#5844326)
Probably some of Joe Cocker's covers, like "Feelin' Alright"

"With a little help from my friends" crushes the Beatles version.
   732. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: May 21, 2019 at 03:10 PM (#5844330)
Ten thunderbolts strike at the same time
A hundred hearts energized in the thundering roar
Simultaneously a thousand colliding thunderbolts
And too, ten thousand lightning strikes in the heavens


Seriously, watch the damn video ... I'm terrified just sitting at my damn computer. No bloody wonder they conquered 2/3rds of the known world.
   733. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 21, 2019 at 03:36 PM (#5844336)
Joy Zipper - "Just Like Heaven" (The Cure did the original)

   734. Davo Posted: May 21, 2019 at 03:41 PM (#5844340)

Woody Allen Gets U.S. Release Rights to ‘Rainy Day In New York’ Back From Amazon.


Reasons to be seen whether this will ever get released in America. (Woody released a trailer for it on his own Facebook page.)
   735. Swoboda is freedom Posted: May 21, 2019 at 03:51 PM (#5844342)
Somewhere over the Rainbow, by Israel cantspellhislastname (big Hawaiian dude)
   736. Swoboda is freedom Posted: May 21, 2019 at 03:54 PM (#5844344)
I also really like the cover of Mad World (original by Tears for Fears) by Michael Andrews.
   737. Davo Posted: May 21, 2019 at 04:03 PM (#5844345)
@labuzamovies
Now that Fox Searchlight bought the Malick there's only one thing to do: Distribute it as a Disney+ Original Movie.
   738. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: May 21, 2019 at 04:08 PM (#5844346)
"100,000 Fireflies - Superchunk"
Baldrick, I am going to hunt you down and murder you for writing this. You have been warned.

I agree but I'm not a fan of Amway more generally - switching to Merritt is a big part of why the subsequent albums were way better.
   739. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 21, 2019 at 04:25 PM (#5844351)
I wonder about a song like Joni Mitchell's "Both Sides Now", where Judy Collins had the hit first version and then Joni recorded it for Clouds. If I prefer Joni's version can I call it a cover, even though she wrote it?

Allmusic lists 751 recordings of the song. Some of them are probably duplicates, and maybe a couple are some other song called "Both Sides Now". But past that the sheer weight of numbers would suggest that one of them is likely to be better than Judy or Joni.
   740. McCoy Posted: May 21, 2019 at 04:45 PM (#5844359)
So what was supposed to happen before the internet leaked out the details?
   741. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 21, 2019 at 05:15 PM (#5844366)
deleted - got my Counting Crows covers mixed up. :-)
   742. Lassus Posted: May 21, 2019 at 05:31 PM (#5844370)
I cannot understand, for the life of me, why people keep asking about Arya's wandering, surviving horse. WHERE DID THE HORSE COME FROM? WHAT HAPPENED TO THE HORSE? What are you, stupid? It was a lucky, random survivor, like all the other lucky, random survivors. And she probably gave it to someone. Who the #### cares, and why?
   743. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 21, 2019 at 05:44 PM (#5844373)
Who the #### cares, and why?

A white horse emerges from a scorched landscape as the only other living creature with one of our main protagonists at a pretty big moment in the series, people are going to assume it means something.

Or put it this way - if it didn't mean anything beyond "hey look a horse!", why bother showing it? Does the episode really end that differently if our last shot pulls back on Arya walking out of town alone with destruction all around her? What does the horse add to the equation if it's just a horse?
   744. Davo Posted: May 21, 2019 at 05:53 PM (#5844379)
Critics and fans kept saying Game of Thrones was more than just swords and dragons and boobies. If that’s the case, we’d expect there to be some thematic consistency. Hence: “What’s with the horse?”
   745. Lassus Posted: May 21, 2019 at 06:03 PM (#5844384)
as the only other living creature

In a 30-foot radius.


if it didn't mean anything beyond "hey look a horse!", why bother showing it?

Cinematography and art and framing seem like good reasons.


What does the horse add to the equation if it's just a horse?

This is why I think internet criticism has turned art and entertainment into sports. "Screw your art, I want math!"

I mean, the simplest reading, of many, is that EVERYTHING is bleak, dark, dying, death, and burned. But Arya lives, and so did this horse (and, obviously, other random people and things) - you might think it's stupid and hackneyed, but it provides contrast of the brightness palate to highlight Arya's survival. And it (falsely) intimates she's going to be the death of Dany as well.

And to be completely and utterly fair to you, asking WHY THE HELL THE HORSE is not an illegitimate question to ask of an artistic choice. My frustration made me stupider, and I shouldn't have grouped it in with the TRULY irritating question (like in the article) of "What the heck happened to the horse?"
   746. Rennie's Tenet Posted: May 21, 2019 at 06:13 PM (#5844386)
What does the horse add to the equation if it's just a horse?


Sometimes a horse is a horse, of course.
   747. PreservedFish Posted: May 21, 2019 at 06:32 PM (#5844387)
I'm glad the horse was just a horse, but it was shot like it was a magical-hope-metaphor-horse, and I think it was natural for people to expect something to come of it. I was mildly surprised that the horse didn't make an appearance in the last episode.
   748. Davo Posted: May 21, 2019 at 06:44 PM (#5844388)
@zacdayvis
In a reminder that this website is not real life,

Game of Thrones finale: 13.6 million live viewers
Big Bang Theory finale: 18.5 million
   749. Davo Posted: May 21, 2019 at 06:49 PM (#5844389)
@MattZollerSeitz
Folks, a lot of this "don't spoil the movie!" strategy is about driving up opening weekend box office. The studio doesn't really care about protecting your enjoyment. They do it with good and bad films alike. They want to control the discussion, the information itself.

I worry we're collectively allowing ourselves to be turned into little foie gras ducks, being fed dribs of "content" by these billion-dollar conglomerates that don't really care about our enjoyment or edification, only about making as much $ as possible by stifling discussion.
   750. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 21, 2019 at 08:04 PM (#5844402)
@zacdayvis
In a reminder that this website is not real life,

Game of Thrones finale: 13.6 million live viewers
Big Bang Theory finale: 18.5 million

U.S. viewers who have access to HBO: 54 million
U.S. viewers who have access to CBS: 305 million
   751. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 21, 2019 at 08:24 PM (#5844404)
I'm glad the horse was just a horse, but it was shot like it was a magical-hope-metaphor-horse, and I think it was natural for people to expect something to come of it. I was mildly surprised that the horse didn't make an appearance in the last episode.

Exactly. I get art and cinematography and all that, and I'm not looking to minimize the value of a nice shot. But so much of this show has been about its symbolism, and that horse at that moment after what we spent the previous 20+ minutes watching, sure seemed like it meant something more than it's a pretty horse and all hope is not lost.

I'll take 100 unexplained horses over 1 hit-me-over-the-head symbolic melting of the Iron Throne by the suddenly-smartest-one-in-the-room dragon. I actually burst out laughing when I realized that Drogon, to avenge its mother's death, was going to melt the throne rather than do anything about Jon, who was standing right there. This was the GoT equivalent of Joshua learning that the only winning move is not to play at the end of WarGames.
   752. chisoxcollector Posted: May 21, 2019 at 08:31 PM (#5844407)
I'm sure the answer is on line somewhere, but I don't recall any use of "Scarlet Witch", "Hawkeye", or "Black Widow".


She is referred to as Black Widow at least twice in the films. Once in the first Avengers film during her introductory interrogation scene, and once in Winter Soldier when Rumlow is told via radio that Black Widow has breached the council.
   753. PreservedFish Posted: May 21, 2019 at 08:38 PM (#5844408)
I'll take 100 unexplained horses over 1 hit-me-over-the-head symbolic melting of the Iron Throne by the suddenly-smartest-one-in-the-room dragon. I actually burst out laughing when I realized that Drogon, to avenge its mother's death, was going to melt the throne rather than do anything about Jon, who was standing right there. This was the GoT equivalent of Joshua learning that the only winning move is not to play at the end of WarGames.

I saw a cute comment on reddit on this - either Drogon is extraordinarily intelligent, or, alternatively, is a dumb animal, it sees a pointy thing in its mommy and its revenge is to kill the object nearby that's literally made out of pointy things.
   754. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 21, 2019 at 08:41 PM (#5844409)
I saw a cute comment on reddit on this - either Drogon is extraordinarily intelligent, or, alternatively, is a dumb animal, it sees a pointy thing in its mommy and its revenge is to kill the object nearby that's literally made out of pointy things.

I will choose to believe that now. Thank you.
   755. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: May 21, 2019 at 08:46 PM (#5844414)
I saw a cute comment on reddit on this - either Drogon is extraordinarily intelligent, or, alternatively, is a dumb animal, it sees a pointy thing in its mommy and its revenge is to kill the object nearby that's literally made out of pointy things.
What left me scratching my head was that Drogon's first blast after finding Dany dead was at...nothing. Just an undirected fire belch of rage, seemingly.
   756. PreservedFish Posted: May 21, 2019 at 08:49 PM (#5844415)
Just an undirected fire belch of rage, seemingly.


Yes. And at first it seemed as if he would melt the Iron Throne by mistake, which I think would have been fine too. But then it became too targeted to look anything but intentional, and we were all left wondering how a dragon could be so insightful and cognizant of the symbolism of the throne. Like many moments in this season, they elected for the superficial ham-fisted Hollywood action movie approach instead of the subtlety and realism that made the show wonderful.
   757. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: May 21, 2019 at 08:52 PM (#5844419)
Yes. And at first it seemed as if he would melt the Iron Throne by mistake, which I think would have been fine too. But then it became too targeted to look anything but intentional, and we were all left wondering how a dragon could be so insightful and cognizant of the symbolism of the throne. Like many moments in this season, they elected for the superficial ham-fisted Hollywood action movie approach instead of the subtlety and realism that made the show wonderful.


Ding.
   758. Davo Posted: May 21, 2019 at 08:56 PM (#5844421)
What were the show’s themes, again?
   759. PreservedFish Posted: May 21, 2019 at 09:05 PM (#5844426)
Depends, what type of ridiculous point are you going to try and make if I answer?
   760. Greg Pope Posted: May 21, 2019 at 09:15 PM (#5844431)
But so much of this show has been about its symbolism

I binge watched seasons 1-7 so I really haven't followed discussions up until this season. Is symbolism a big part of the show? I kind of felt the opposite. Sure, there are some prophecies, but the genre-bending aspect is that there isn't any grand plan for the heroes to succeed. Characters can die at any time, there's no guarantee of heroic deaths, etc. It seems like it's more based in realism than symbolism.
   761. Greg Pope Posted: May 21, 2019 at 09:42 PM (#5844445)
Funky Town by Pseudo Echo

Just wondering if anyone here has ever heard of this. I love the song, but IRL I haven't met anyone who remembers it. It peaked at #6 in the US so it was a top 10 song, albeit a one-hit wonder.
   762. Srul Itza Posted: May 21, 2019 at 10:01 PM (#5844454)
Jeez, how hard is it to spell Kamakawiwo'ole. It's just like it sounds.*

Also, second on Cash's version of Hurt


* or you could just go with Bruddah Iz.
   763. Lassus Posted: May 21, 2019 at 10:31 PM (#5844469)
Just wondering if anyone here has ever heard of this. I love the song, but IRL I haven't met anyone who remembers it. It peaked at #6 in the US so it was a top 10 song, albeit a one-hit wonder.

Absolutely. It was the penultimate song on the radio when my best friend slid his car into a station wagon with me in the passenger seat when we were 17. The song that was playing at impact was the Lean on Me cover by Club Nouveau. Before I left the car, I made sure to turn down the dead radio, which was on 11, so he wouldn't be blamed for the crash for jamming out and not paying attention. I was convinced I was a genius.
   764. Lassus Posted: May 21, 2019 at 10:33 PM (#5844472)
What left me scratching my head was that Drogon's first blast after finding Dany dead was at...nothing. Just an undirected fire belch of rage, seemingly.

Is emotion a head-scratcher?


I was mildly surprised that the horse didn't make an appearance in the last episode.

I wasn't. I thought it was a gorgeous shot and nice metaphor, and that was it.
   765. Rennie's Tenet Posted: May 21, 2019 at 10:53 PM (#5844488)
Somewhere over the Rainbow, by Israel....


Nice version of "Wonderful World," too.
   766. Davo Posted: May 22, 2019 at 01:58 AM (#5844503)
   767. manchestermets Posted: May 22, 2019 at 04:51 AM (#5844506)
the TRULY irritating question (like in the article) of "What the heck happened to the horse?"


That's not about symbolism though, it's about continuity 101. The episode followed directly on from the previous episode, so it just made zero sense that a character seen five minutes earlier (in universe time) riding away on a horse would not still be on the horse. Still, at least she wasn't drinking from a plastic water bottle.

Here's a thing I genuinely don't know - does it make sense for Bran's court to have established itself in the destroyed King's Landing? Given the extent of the destruction, and presumably the lack of population, would they not just have moved the capital somewhere else?


I've always been puzzled when people use Sinatra's Strangers in the Night as a wedding song. It's like, have you ever actually listened to the song?


There's a proud tradition of people who haven't actually listened to songs assuming they're romantic loveliness. Baby Bird's You're Gorgeous is about a man taking nude photos of his reluctant girlfriend, but that never stopped drunk men bellowing the chorus at their girlfriends at student discos in the UK in the early 90s.
   768. Lassus Posted: May 22, 2019 at 05:52 AM (#5844508)
so it just made zero sense that a character seen five minutes earlier (in universe time) riding away on a horse would not still be on the horse.

How was this shown? Five minutes?

   769. Rennie's Tenet Posted: May 22, 2019 at 06:12 AM (#5844511)
What's the issue with Strangers in the Night?
   770. bunyon Posted: May 22, 2019 at 06:12 AM (#5844512)
Thta was my problem. However long it actually was, it felt like it was immediate. I almost wouldn't have said five minutes but that it was just a continuous shot.

However, it isn't like it ruined anything. I really do think people are looking for something to ruin it. For so much of the show, there is plenty that isn't explained or discontinuous that people excused. And now, everything has to be explained. Perhaps those who loved the detail of the show assumed the exquisite detail meant that everything would be explained sooner or later. But, for that, you'd need thousands of pages of text. Even that appears hard to come up with. I do think the horse is a pacing thing again: If you forget to edit out modern beverage containers you're likely to forget who was on horseback and who wasn't.

I don't get the Drogon criticism at all. First, as Lassus says, that first burst simply anger and grief. You scoff that a dragon could be smart enough to melt the Iron Throne (I disagree) and then gripe that it doesn't react purely logically when it finds its mothers dead body. The leap I make there, and perhaps its unearned, is that it can't kill Jon, who is a Targaryan. If Targaryans can be killed by dragons, there wouldn't have been any for thousands of years. Melting the Iron Throne, which it's heard about from its mother all its life makes sense. If she can't have it, you can't either.

I'm not assuming dragons are stupid. They haven't seemed that way up to now. They aren't human, but that doesn't make them stupid.
   771. bunyon Posted: May 22, 2019 at 06:19 AM (#5844513)
Somewhere over the Rainbow, by Israel....


Nice version of "Wonderful World," too.


If Iz covered it, his was better.
   772. Lassus Posted: May 22, 2019 at 07:43 AM (#5844519)
That was my problem. However long it actually was, it felt like it was immediate. I almost wouldn't have said five minutes but that it was just a continuous shot.

Seemed as if it could have as easily been five hours to me, I didn't get a sense of immediacy, just an aftermath of indeterminate time. I suppose I could be reading it wrong, but even if it had been 15 minutes instead of 5, she'd just been beaten to hell and wanted to get somewhere quickly instead of walking. When she got there, she let someone else get the horse, or tied it up to return to it later.
   773. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 22, 2019 at 07:58 AM (#5844521)
Funky Town by Pseudo Echo

Just wondering if anyone here has ever heard of this. I love the song, but IRL I haven't met anyone who remembers it. It peaked at #6 in the US so it was a top 10 song, albeit a one-hit wonder.
It was a hit when I was going to junior high school dances, so I remember it well. I didn't know the original until much later.
   774. flournoy Posted: May 22, 2019 at 08:01 AM (#5844522)
I got the sense that Episode 6 started the next day after Episode 5 ended, or thereabouts. That might be wrong, but I didn't read it as immediate.

Also, I never thought of the horse as anything more than an artistic way for Arya to escape the city, and never once thought about it while watching Episode 6. What a weird criticism.
   775. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 22, 2019 at 08:13 AM (#5844523)
Here's a thing I genuinely don't know - does it make sense for Bran's court to have established itself in the destroyed King's Landing? Given the extent of the destruction, and presumably the lack of population, would they not just have moved the capital somewhere else?
Well, unlike in most other mass death scenarios, they don't have to worry about burning the bodies...

They have to stick the capital in the crownlands, so that it's not under the thumb of some other major house. The map makes it look like King's Landing is far and away the best natural port in the crownlands (and maybe the best in Westeros). It's likely to recover no matter what once the return of peace brings about an increase in trade. And anywhere else they stick a capital would require the creation of new infrastructure. Why not just repair the old, in a city that will become great again?

Also, sanitation seemed to be one of King's Landings biggest problems, and the new Hand of the King is great at sanitation.
   776. PreservedFish Posted: May 22, 2019 at 08:24 AM (#5844525)
Here's a thing I genuinely don't know - does it make sense for Bran's court to have established itself in the destroyed King's Landing? Given the extent of the destruction, and presumably the lack of population, would they not just have moved the capital somewhere else?

This is just how Season 8 Thrones operated. The Dothraki were all dead, but a few episodes later, they weren't. The Unsullied were totally overwhelmed by the zombies, and then 2 minutes later, they weren't. The crypts of King's Landing had utterly caved in, but next episode, they hadn't. The writers dispensed with nuance this year. Jaime and Cersei see the entire edifice collapse and hold each other, firm in the knowledge that they will die. Either that happened, or they were unlucky enough to be standing in one particular part of the large room, which was otherwise in pretty good shape, where one or two layers of bricks fell upon them.

So ... King's Landing was utterly ruined, but actually it hadn't been. It fits right in. In one episode, it suits them to show Dany raze the city. In the next, it suits them to have the city that is essentially functional enough that the small council members can joke about the state of the brothels.


More generally, what's unsatisfying is that the election of Bran was based on ... what, a pretext? The idea that there was nobody present of the proper stature or rank to negotiate with the exalted Grey Worm? No chance that coalition would last more than about a week or two, especially after Sansa opted out. At the very least, Dorne and the Iron Islands would nope the #### out the next day. Maybe the rubes like Gendry and stupid Uncle and the "birdy" boy stick around for a little bit, I guess.
   777. PreservedFish Posted: May 22, 2019 at 08:40 AM (#5844528)
I mean, I hate to be so negative, but the last season of the show simply does not deserve a question like "does it make sense for Bran's court to have established itself in the destroyed King's Landing?" because there can be no assumption that the writers' decisions were based on an internally consistent vision.

I do like gabbing about silly stuff like this, and don't blame anyone for doing it, so I'll back down now. I guess I'm still just disappointed. Something like Star Wars was silly and inconsistent from day one, so it's fun to speculate about, but the huge shift in Thrones kind of poisons these questions for me because I don't know if we're debating about GRRM's convincing portrait of an incredibly complex society, or HBO's bombastic adaptation of it.
   778. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 22, 2019 at 08:41 AM (#5844529)
Head canon, it's all about the head canon.
   779. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: May 22, 2019 at 09:29 AM (#5844540)
I'm not a big fan of the "which covers surpassed the original" question, for a handful of reasons - but I did hear Frida Hyvonen's studio version of "Jesus Was A Crossmaker" this morning and it's lovely.
   780. Nasty Nate Posted: May 22, 2019 at 09:38 AM (#5844545)
The covers discussion from last year is here, and I will say what I said then: Johnny Cash's Hurt has become overrated and the original is better!
   781. McCoy Posted: May 22, 2019 at 09:50 AM (#5844552)
At this point i don't even know if I'm going to read the book when it comes out. The last few have not been very good, George had served to have written himself into a corner/wuagmire, and the solution as seen on TV don't seem very good.
   782. Greg Pope Posted: May 22, 2019 at 09:57 AM (#5844555)
The problem with rating movie remakes is that they only remake movies that were popular to begin with. So the bar is naturally high. For example, I'm told that The Bonfire of the Vanities is a great book. But they made it into a terrible movie. Seems like someone could make a really good movie out of it, but since the first one flopped, nobody's interested. Now, that's not a great example because the theoretical remake would be based on the book, but that's the general idea. I mean, if somebody re-made Ishtar, it would have to better than the original, but it's not going to happen.

Songs seem different. Sure, many remakes are famous songs, but a lot of them were from obscure originals. In a lot of cases that have been mentioned, the covers are the definitive versions. I had no idea that Me and Bobby McGee wasn't a Joplin original.
   783. PepTech Posted: May 22, 2019 at 10:36 AM (#5844571)
Did it bother anyone else that the at the end of John Wick 2 he was given an hour - a scene which occurred in broad daylight on a sunny day with vendors in the park - and Chapter 3 opens about seven minutes later in the pouring rain, full dark, nowhere near a park.

I mean, c'mon, inject a little realism in there, would you?
   784. PreservedFish Posted: May 22, 2019 at 11:07 AM (#5844588)
A friend of mine told me I should read Brandon Sanderson's ongoing fantasy megaseries. The first book is 1000 pages and there are a projected 10 books. I'm not sure I can do it.
   785. Lassus Posted: May 22, 2019 at 11:21 AM (#5844595)
I'm not much of a fantasy guy, but the GRRM assistants who spawned the EXPANSE sci-fi series had it planned as a 10-book series, and it has rather run out of gas at book 7 or so. That's a lot of words.
   786. Swoboda is freedom Posted: May 22, 2019 at 11:23 AM (#5844598)
Some movies get remade as it has been a while. They are classic stories and they can be updated with the new young stars. The Three Musketeers, Man in the Iron Mask, Romeo and Juliet, All Quiet on the Western Front, Last of the Mohicans, Mutiny on the Bounty.
   787. Davo Posted: May 22, 2019 at 11:25 AM (#5844599)
The most recent Three Musketeers adaptation added flying airships. It’s perfect.
   788. Lassus Posted: May 22, 2019 at 11:25 AM (#5844600)
Romeo and Juliet

Spielberg's West Side Story is about to start filming. I'm not hopeful.
   789. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: May 22, 2019 at 11:40 AM (#5844612)
The covers discussion from last year is here, and I will say what I said then: Johnny Cash's Hurt has become overrated and the original is better!

I don't like that one (but I don't really like the original either) or his Personal Jesus. I'm all on board the rest of the American stuff, though. I saw Morrissey a couple of weeks ago and he played a couple of the songs from his upcoming covers albums. I said this a few pages back, but it sounds great. The songs are Morrissey-fied but they aren't fussy like the stuff he's done for, say, the 20 years.
   790. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: May 22, 2019 at 11:44 AM (#5844616)
Speaking of recent concerts...I saw Mulatu Astatqe this past weekend and, if you've never heard him, you should do yourself a favor and check him out. I know the idea of an Ethiopian jazz composer sounds irritating but he's really great. Your life will be better if he's in your shuffle. The Broken Flowers (the Jim Jarmusch movie) soundtrack is an easy starting point.
   791. PreservedFish Posted: May 22, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5844621)
I know the idea of an Ethiopian jazz composer sounds irritating but he's really great.


Not to me! I've been loving those Ethiopiques albums for about 20 years now. Never seen any of these fellows in concert though.

Shooty, have you heard Khruangbin? They're a psychedelic group from Texas, mostly groovy instrumental stuff, and the guitarist is hugely influenced by Ethiopian (and Cambodian) music which gives it a hyperexotic, almost otherworldly feeling.
   792. Hot Wheeling American Posted: May 22, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5844622)
Did it bother anyone else that the at the end of John Wick 2 he was given an hour - a scene which occurred in broad daylight on a sunny day with vendors in the park - and Chapter 3 opens about seven minutes later in the pouring rain, full dark, nowhere near a park.

'Bother' is strong, but I did notice it. Said to myself that it was an unseasonably warm winter day, so while things looked warm in Central Park, the day was short and night came quickly (and the rain, too, I guess). And though errors in New York geography can annoy me, I decided early on in John Wick 2 to not care (been a while since I saw the original, so don't know if this was as noticeable there). I think him and Common are staring each other down through the Lincoln Center fountain, then run and when they turn the corner they are in the new Fulton Street subway station.
   793. Hot Wheeling American Posted: May 22, 2019 at 11:57 AM (#5844623)
The problem with rating movie remakes is that they only remake movies that were popular to begin with. So the bar is naturally high. For example, I'm told that The Bonfire of the Vanities is a great book. But they made it into a terrible movie. Seems like someone could make a really good movie out of it, but since the first one flopped, nobody's interested. Now, that's not a great example because the theoretical remake would be based on the book, but that's the general idea. I mean, if somebody re-made Ishtar, it would have to better than the original, but it's not going to happen.

Gene Siskel made this point in his review of Cop Land. Remake interesting but flawed movies (like, for instance, Cop Land), not classics. But we know that's not how it works.
   794. Swoboda is freedom Posted: May 22, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5844625)
Gene Siskel made this point in his review of Cop Land. Remake interesting but flawed movies (like, for instance, Cop Land), not classics. But we know that's not how it works.


Michael Mann remade Heat from a tv movie L.A. Takedown. Much bigger budget and better cast.

The other big area for remakes is foreign movies.
   795. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: May 22, 2019 at 12:13 PM (#5844629)
Shooty, have you heard Khruangbin? They're a psychedelic group from Texas, mostly groovy instrumental stuff, and the guitarist is hugely influenced by Ethiopian (and Cambodian) music which gives it a hyperexotic, almost otherworldly feeling.

I ahve not, but I will rectify that!
   796. Baldrick Posted: May 22, 2019 at 12:31 PM (#5844634)
The covers discussion from last year is here, and I will say what I said then: Johnny Cash's Hurt has become overrated and the original is better!

I repeat my endorsement of this claim. It's a very moving version of the song, and I do like it. But the NIN version is rawer and hits me much harder.
A friend of mine told me I should read Brandon Sanderson's ongoing fantasy megaseries. The first book is 1000 pages and there are a projected 10 books. I'm not sure I can do it.

If you're the sort of person who likes jumping into big universes and inhabiting them for a long time, and if you're not looking for something that's dense and dark like a GRRM, I'd recommend it. They're breezy reads. Even at 1200 pages, you can knock them out in the time it would take to get through a denser 500 pager. The world building is super interesting. Most of the characters are pretty interesting. And it's as close to a sure thing as you can get that he'll actually finish. He puts out books quicker than just about anyone, and genuinely has stuff plotted out tens of thousands of pages ahead of time.
   797. Lassus Posted: May 22, 2019 at 12:43 PM (#5844637)
And though errors in New York geography can annoy me

The only two where I audibly eye-rolled were Die Hard III and Cloverfield.
   798. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 22, 2019 at 12:47 PM (#5844641)
And though errors in New York geography can annoy me
The one thing I liked about Morgan Freeman/Ashley Judd vehicle Kiss the Girls is that I got to complain about film geography for the first time ever. They're driving down a street in Durham, they take a left and they're in Chapel Hill, then suddenly they're in rural Wake County. How could anyone find that believable?
   799. Davo Posted: May 22, 2019 at 01:11 PM (#5844649)
   800. Baldrick Posted: May 22, 2019 at 02:16 PM (#5844673)
Floop.
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