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Wednesday, March 13, 2019

OT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza ([most of] March 2019)

Hollywood actresses Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman are among 50 people charged in a $25 million college entrance exam cheating scheme, according to court documents unsealed in Boston on Tuesday.

The alleged scam focused on getting students admitted to elite universities as recruited athletes, regardless of their athletic abilities, and helping potential students cheat on their college exams, according to the indictment.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: March 13, 2019 at 07:47 AM | 478 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movies, music, off-topic, television, whatever else belongs under the rubric of 'popular culture'

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   101. PreservedFish Posted: March 13, 2019 at 04:58 PM (#5822559)
I just don't think coming down hard on a woman who tires of the literal male worldwide fascination with a middle-aged man pursuing and screwing a 13-year-old is fair.

Lassus, I think you're making a decent point.

And yes, I suspect there are thousands of incipient pedophiles that have found the book intensely erotic and inspirational. And many others who are pulled in by the emotion/longing/pursuit and keep only an academic distance, not a visceral one.
   102. Lassus Posted: March 13, 2019 at 05:07 PM (#5822562)
Thanks. And honestly, my point has nothing to do with those men or their numbers.
   103. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 13, 2019 at 05:46 PM (#5822579)
I think about in terms of cinematic depictions of violence.

With a few notable exceptions, movies handle violence in one of three ways:

1. The movie characters resolve their problems by using violence, and they revel in it and celebrate it, because the movies believe violence is just. (Your Michael Bay movies, Dirty Harries, Death Wishes, Star Wars, etc).
2. The movie characters still resolve all their problems by using violence, but the characters feel conflicted about it afterwards. (Zero Dark Thirty, American Sniper)
3. The movie shows all the violence, but with ironic distance or satiric disdain. (Starship Troopers, Kingsman, Fight Club, Tarantino, etc.)


Now. Pacifists (I am one) all recognize that movies in the first category are uniformly terrible. But many of them still like movies in categories 2 and 3.

But....at the end of the day we’re all just watching people use violence to solve problems. And that’s exhausting! Even when there’s an “Oh, but was it even worth the damage to my SOUL?” rumination in the epilogue.

You wanna make a pacifist movie? Make one where your characters solve a conflict without violently resisting evil! I would love that so much more than another “oh but don’t you see the over-the-top blood splatter makes the killings IRONIC” wank-fest.

What I’m saying is: give me more Smallfoot.
   104. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 13, 2019 at 05:48 PM (#5822581)
(It’s also my long way of saying: I totally get why someone would say “How about instead of a subtle satire against pedophilia, you just, ya know, don’t write any more books about pedophiles?”)
   105. chisoxcollector Posted: March 13, 2019 at 06:28 PM (#5822595)
47. What movie did you consider the most popular in #45?


I don’t want to speak for him, but I would imagine it’s In the Company of Men. That’s the only movie on your list that I would consider remotely mainstream.

I’ve only seen two of the films. In the Company of Men and Bellflower, which I know is one of your all-time favorites. I have to say, the in-car whiskey dispenser was pretty cool.
   106. vortex of dissipation Posted: March 13, 2019 at 06:51 PM (#5822599)
An extraordinary new song from tricot, "Big Invention", just posted today. Suitably tricky during the verses, anthemic during the chorus, but my favorite part is the last 30 seconds, when after the final chorus it shifts gears and closes things out with a lovely little sequence. And the visuals in the video are striking, too.
   107. BrianBrianson Posted: March 13, 2019 at 06:56 PM (#5822601)
You wanna make a pacifist movie? Make one where your characters solve a conflict without violently resisting evil!


The Voyage Home.

Though I guess Spock neck-pinches the punk on the bus.

Of course, I'm not a pacifist. I don't think I've used violence on another human in ~10 years, when I (and a couple mates) wrestled some guy off his girlfriend in a subway station, and detained him until the police arrived. But I stand by that - I'd do it again today.
   108. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 13, 2019 at 07:06 PM (#5822603)
I would love that so much more than another “oh but don’t you see the over-the-top blood splatter makes the killings IRONIC” wank-fest.
Seconded. I don't like graphic violence in movies in general, but it's particularly obnoxious when directors use it for "humor" and/or smug irony.
   109. Mike A Posted: March 13, 2019 at 08:24 PM (#5822618)
A little late...

Best: Prince, Purple Rain Tour 1985. Through a stroke of luck, I ended up with 2nd row tickets. Not much more to say.

HM: Amnesty Int'l, 1986. U2, The Police, Peter Gabriel, Lou Reed, Bryan Adams...and Joan Baez(?) Anyways, it was a cool charity show kinda lost to Dad Rock history. There were rumors the Police were going to reunite that night, but no one really knew. They shined three spotlights on the stage and the place went crazy.

Also a shout-out to REM, Weird Al, and of course The Wiggles.

Worst: The Cars, 1987. You wouldn't think that a concert from a HoF band could be a cure for insomnia, but you'd be wrong.
   110. PreservedFish Posted: March 13, 2019 at 08:38 PM (#5822622)
Are we really comparing Lolita to Starship Troopers and Kill Bill here? Come on.
   111. JJ1986 Posted: March 13, 2019 at 09:36 PM (#5822636)
I don’t want to speak for him, but I would imagine it’s In the Company of Men.
Yeah, that one. I initially thought I had seen another, but The Holy Mountain you listed is not the Jodorowsky one.
   112. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: March 13, 2019 at 10:02 PM (#5822643)
From #65:
Worst: Palace Music/Will Oldham 1995-ish Cambridge, MA. Absolutely mailed it in....looked like his band was pulled out of a subway station that day. I asked my friends, "Why does he hate his fans?"
I saw this tour in Chapel Hill, and while it wasn't the worst show I ever saw*, it was way down there. He had this idea he was going to get pick up bands and do sort of jammy variants and be free, but the result was just horribleness. When they started butchering "Idle Hands Are the Devil's Playthings" the guy next to me screamed, "How can you do this? This song is holy!"

* that would be Cat Power in about 1997, aimlessly noodling on her guitar and mumbling for 2.5 hours, the last 30 minutes of which were after the club had turned on the house lights and put a Pixies album on the sound system.
   113. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 13, 2019 at 10:37 PM (#5822646)
Is this the same Will Oldham from the movies New Jerusalem and Old Joy? I almost included those on my list!
   114. canadian shield Posted: March 14, 2019 at 02:20 AM (#5822667)
Too late to the party, best concert:
1988 - John Hiatt and the Goners at a little hall in Winnipeg called Le Rendez Vous. The songs, performance, and the guitar of Sonny Landreth...Wow. Saw David Bowie on the Glass Spider tour, I don't think it's possible for a stadium show to be that great (but I'm glad I saw him though).
   115. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: March 14, 2019 at 04:31 AM (#5822671)
You wanna make a pacifist movie? Make one where your characters solve a conflict without violently resisting evil!


While there are what I guess would pass for action/fight scenes, I thought the Lego Movies did a fairly good job of this. (Less so the spin-offs, I would guess, though I haven't seen the ninja one.)
   116. yo la tengo Posted: March 14, 2019 at 06:45 AM (#5822673)
I also saw Palace on that tour - saw them in Gainesville at the Covered Dish. Had no idea that this shambling pick up band idea was a theme, thought it was just unfortunate luck on our part.
   117. jmurph Posted: March 14, 2019 at 09:21 AM (#5822691)
I saw this tour in Chapel Hill, and while it wasn't the worst show I ever saw*, it was way down there. He had this idea he was going to get pick up bands and do sort of jammy variants and be free, but the result was just horribleness. When they started butchering "Idle Hands Are the Devil's Playthings" the guy next to me screamed, "How can you do this? This song is holy!"

* that would be Cat Power in about 1997, aimlessly noodling on her guitar and mumbling for 2.5 hours, the last 30 minutes of which were after the club had turned on the house lights and put a Pixies album on the sound system.

I saw a transcendent Oldham performance in...2001 or 2. Under the Bonnie Prince Billy name I think. Also saw a completely terrible Cat Power show around the same time.
   118. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 14, 2019 at 10:30 AM (#5822727)
1. The movie characters resolve their problems by using violence, and they revel in it and celebrate it, because the movies believe violence is just. (Your Michael Bay movies, Dirty Harries, Death Wishes, Star Wars, etc).
2. The movie characters still resolve all their problems by using violence, but the characters feel conflicted about it afterwards. (Zero Dark Thirty, American Sniper)
3. The movie shows all the violence, but with ironic distance or satiric disdain. (Starship Troopers, Kingsman, Fight Club, Tarantino, etc.)


Now. Pacifists (I am one) all recognize that movies in the first category are uniformly terrible. But many of them still like movies in categories 2 and 3.


By the way, this is nonsense. A pacifist can like a movie on any of these dumb categories, because movie violence is pretend. Pretend violence is not real violence. Fiction is not reality. I don't have to agree with the morals underpinnings of a movie to enjoy it. Neither does anyone else.
   119. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 14, 2019 at 10:45 AM (#5822733)
I enjoy Phish's music and have seen them 9 times I think. Like PF I have never gone in on the fashion choices that many of their fans make. Their studio albums are actually really good I think up to a point. I would say they that their 3 set show in Chicago in 2013 was my favorite show that I've been to. Radiohead in 03 in Camden NJ was a really good show too. I was most in awe at the McCartney show in Des Moines in 2017. I love the Beatles and being in the room with one was awesome even if he's a former flamethrower who relies on junk nowadays. (not singalong junk, regular junk)
   120. Swoboda is freedom Posted: March 14, 2019 at 11:09 AM (#5822745)
I saw Radiohead open for REM on the Monster tour, shortly after The Bends came out. That was a pretty badass show all around.


I saw this in the UK. Radiohead, Sleeper and Cranberries were warm up bands. Great concert but really hot day.
   121. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: March 14, 2019 at 11:38 AM (#5822765)
Is this the same Will Oldham from the movies New Jerusalem and Old Joy? I almost included those on my list!
To me he'll always be the kid in Matewan.
I enjoy Phish's music and have seen them 9 times I think.
Last year I went to a party a guy threw to celebrate the completion of his Century; i.e., the 100th time he saw Phish play. Some people really like Phish.
   122. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 14, 2019 at 11:52 AM (#5822775)
There was a podcast called “Analyze Phish” by two comedians (Scott Aukerman and the late Harris Wittels), and the premise was Wittels (a Phish super-fan) would spend the whole show trying to convince Aukerman that they were actually a great band. I loved it!
   123. Lassus Posted: March 14, 2019 at 12:06 PM (#5822786)
I can make fun of the Dead because I've actually listened to them and seen them play (once).

Phish it's difficult for me to make fun of because I don't think I've ever heard them.
   124. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5822790)
There was a podcast called “Analyze Phish” by two comedians (Scott Aukerman and the late Harris Wittels), and the premise was Wittels (a Phish super-fan) would spend the whole show trying to convince Aukerman that they were actually a great band. I loved it!


I'd like to listen to this.

Phish's music doesn't connect with me at all anymore. But I'll say this for them - they put on a hell of a show. Sometimes they do get lost in the endless noodling jams. But, in general, they really care about keeping things fresh and energetic and fun. All the talk about bad concerts above - selfish, distracted, uninterested performers - none of that would ever apply to Phish. They work hard to make every show special.
   125. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2019 at 12:29 PM (#5822791)
Meanwhile, I've spent my morning listening to "mallwave"

... a lo-fi subgenre of vaporwave that listeners refer to as “music optimized for abandoned malls.” Like Vaporwave creators, Mallwave musicians use soft drum tracks, ambient sounds and low-quality synthesizers to create soft, calming electronic music. But they also mix in pop music associated with the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, with the purpose of creating a holistic “nostalgic” experience, one that recreates the experience you would have had when visiting the mall.


THE TEENS WHO LISTEN TO ‘MALLWAVE’ ARE NOSTALGIC FOR AN EXPERIENCE THEY’VE NEVER HAD
   126. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 14, 2019 at 12:31 PM (#5822792)
110 & 118: I’m only using this to stand up for the Tweeter on the previous page who hated Lolita.

We can hold these two thoughts in our head at the same time:

1. “Depiction does not equal endorsement.”
2. “I don’t want to see any more art that depicts a specific distasteful behavior or person—regardless of whether the art “endorses” that behavior or person. I’m just tired of seeing it.”

There’s not a contradiction there, and we shouldn’t assume that all people who say #2 are just too dumb to understand #1.
   127. BrianBrianson Posted: March 14, 2019 at 12:46 PM (#5822794)
No, those are both fair Davo. But in context, the original complainers weren't saying they didn't want to see more art that depicts X, but that they couldn't ... uhm, make the beast with two backs ... with anyone who was okay. Which certainly implies they didn't get #1.
   128. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2019 at 12:56 PM (#5822798)
That's exactly what I was gonna say.
   129. Jay Z Posted: March 14, 2019 at 01:27 PM (#5822813)
I don’t want to speak for him, but I would imagine it’s In the Company of Men. That’s the only movie on your list that I would consider remotely mainstream.


That one really has not held up for me. It was interesting when I saw it, but I kind of regret seeing it now.

One and done for seeing anything written by Neil LaBute as well. Nurse Betty worked, but he didn't write that. Nurse Betty had more of a human element.

That was the whole '90s thing of showing bad people as an end in itself. Didn't and do not care for it. I just don't want to see those stories without a human element. Same with Curb Your Enthusiasm. Concept is not funny to me. Don't have any interest in watching stories with that character, even if he gets his comeuppance.

Yeah, bad things happen. You can make a movie called Auschwitz and end it before WWII ends, with the camp guards laughing and joking about their torture and killings. Or a movie about Jeffrey Dahmer that ends before he's captured. I'm done with that crap, life is too short.
   130. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 14, 2019 at 01:55 PM (#5822819)
... a lo-fi subgenre of vaporwave that listeners refer to as “music optimized for abandoned malls.” Like Vaporwave creators, Mallwave musicians use soft drum tracks, ambient sounds and low-quality synthesizers to create soft, calming electronic music. But they also mix in pop music associated with the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, with the purpose of creating a holistic “nostalgic” experience, one that recreates the experience you would have had when visiting the mall.
Just when you thought hipster irony couldn't get any worse.
   131. jmurph Posted: March 14, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5822820)
That one really has not held up for me. It was interesting when I saw it, but I kind of regret seeing it now.

One and done for seeing anything written by Neil LaBute as well. Nurse Betty worked, but he didn't write that. Nurse Betty had more of a human element.

That was the whole '90s thing of showing bad people as an end in itself. Didn't and do not care for it.

Hard agree on LaBute. He seemed to have a very low opinion of humanity but not necessarily much insight.

(It's also moderately ironic that it's on Davo's best films list given the current Lolita discussion.)
   132. BrianBrianson Posted: March 14, 2019 at 02:14 PM (#5822825)
I just don't want to see those stories without a human element.


You might at least rethink the phrasing, as a show like Curb Your Enthusiasm has a huge amount of human element. It's a very honest exploration of what it's like to be human. The humour largely comes from it hitting too close to home.

I might suggest a better term, but I'm really not sure what you're after, here.
   133. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2019 at 02:22 PM (#5822827)
Just when you thought hipster irony couldn't get any worse.


I think the kids making this music are so far removed from the original art that they can't tell what is or isn't irony. I've got a coworker that's 24, smart kid, loves music. We were listening to Hall & Oates and he didn't believe me when I told him that they had like two decades in the wilderness as a mocked and disdained band. He came of age after they had already experienced their hipster irony-fueled reemergence.

It was 10+ years ago that "yacht rock" became a term, that you started hearing "Africa" and "Takin it to the Streets" in hipster venues, and bands like Neon Indian and Ariel Pink began incorporating those sounds into new contexts (successfully IMO). So now we have kids that grew up thinking that all that was really some of the coolest music, and they're doing their own thing with it. I don't think it's all ironic.
   134. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 14, 2019 at 02:26 PM (#5822829)
110 & 118: I’m only using this to stand up for the Tweeter on the previous page who hated Lolita.


And I was replying to your nonsense about how pacifists have to hate movies like Star Wars because of depicted violence. Your statement was dumb no matter how you justify it.
   135. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 14, 2019 at 02:29 PM (#5822832)
I went through a phase a few years back where I read tons and tons and tons of modern plays, and it was during that phase where I found Neil LaBute, and he very quickly became one of my favorite writers. I’ve read a dozen of his plays by now, and have seen 3 movies adapted for his scripts. I just think he’s a wonderful dramatist.

The line that sticks to me is from an intro he wrote: “As for the characters who populate Fat Pig, I love them all because they are so desperately human—they want to have convictions but, in the end, they’d rather be liked or get their needs met.”

So yes—can obviously understand why he’s not for everyone. No one wants to hear that!
   136. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: March 14, 2019 at 02:34 PM (#5822834)
The author of The Real Lolita, which I read a couple of weeks ago, asserts that it's not particularly rare, IIRC, though that's by no means even part of her focus.

Any good? I was curious about it but then Katy Waldman of the New Yorker took it apart pretty savagely and I never ended up reading it. I was skeptical of the premise that the real life inspiration was much of a mystery, given that it's mentioned in the book!


Certainly worth reading, though admittedly I did so for the true crime aspect rather than any attempts at literary theory or whatever. (Never read Nabokov & doubt that will change.)
   137. jmurph Posted: March 14, 2019 at 02:44 PM (#5822838)
So yes—can obviously understand why he’s not for everyone. No one wants to hear that!

"I can understand why you don't like the thing that I like because you're not ready for the truth, man" is certainly a take.
   138. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 14, 2019 at 02:53 PM (#5822842)
134- thank you, I’ve gone back and edited my post.
   139. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 14, 2019 at 02:54 PM (#5822843)
137- thank you, I’ve gone back and edited my post.
   140. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: March 14, 2019 at 03:26 PM (#5822846)
Radiohead in 03 in Camden NJ was a really good show too.

With Malkmus & The Jicks opening? If so, I was there, too! And yes, it was indeed a very good show. Easily the most enjoyable of the 4 Radiohead shows I've attended. I've never gone back to Camden, but I loved that venue.
   141. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 14, 2019 at 03:31 PM (#5822847)
I saw this in the UK. Radiohead, Sleeper and Cranberries were warm up bands. Great concert but really hot day.
My reaction after hearing the Bends songs for the first time was something like "Huh, I guess these guys aren't going to be one-hit wonders after all. I'm pleasantly surprised!"
   142. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 14, 2019 at 03:37 PM (#5822851)
With Malkmus & The Jicks opening? If so, I was there, too! And yes, it was indeed a very good show. Easily the most enjoyable of the 4 Radiohead shows I've attended. I've never gone back to Camden, but I loved that venue.


Yes but I missed them! I was running late and there were 4 of us with only 3 tickets. I had to snag my ticket from someone outside the venue while my friends went in. I got in like 5 minutes before they started playing. Great show though. I hadn't heard Hail to the Thief yet but after the show I was listening to it twice a day.
   143. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 14, 2019 at 03:42 PM (#5822852)
My reaction after hearing the Bends songs for the first time was something like "Huh, I guess these guys aren't going to be one-hit wonders after all. I'm pleasantly surprised!"


Agreed. I love that album. It is the gold standard for 90s Britpop.
   144. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 14, 2019 at 03:44 PM (#5822854)
   145. Nasty Nate Posted: March 14, 2019 at 03:50 PM (#5822856)
Radiohead in 03 in Camden NJ was a really good show too.



With Malkmus & The Jicks opening? If so, I was there, too! And yes, it was indeed a very good show. Easily the most enjoyable of the 4 Radiohead shows I've attended. I've never gone back to Camden, but I loved that venue.
I saw them earlier that week at the Massachusetts stop of the tour. I was way up front. Good show, but I preferred the other time I saw them, 2 years prior to that on the Amnesiac/Kid A tour.
   146. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 14, 2019 at 03:56 PM (#5822858)
I preferred the other time I saw them, 2 years prior to that on the Amnesiac/Kid A tour.
I was at the quasi-legendary Grant Park show in Chicago on that tour, and it was every bit as great as it is reputed to have been. Sadly, I haven't really had any desire to see them since then.
   147. Nasty Nate Posted: March 14, 2019 at 04:02 PM (#5822859)
I haven't seen them since the 2003 show, either.
   148. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 14, 2019 at 04:21 PM (#5822867)
I was at the quasi-legendary Grant Park show in Chicago on that tour, and it was every bit as great as it is reputed to have been. Sadly, I haven't really had any desire to see them since then.


I saw them in Tinley Park in like 2010 or 2011. My brother preferred that show and I much preferred the 2003 show.
   149. jmurph Posted: March 14, 2019 at 04:22 PM (#5822868)
I also saw Radiohead on the 2003 tour, in New Orleans.
   150. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 14, 2019 at 04:57 PM (#5822873)
Berlin Film Festival Winner ‘Touch Me Not’ Is Like If ‘Nymphomaniac’ Actually Got Women’s Sexuality
Directed with sensitivity by Romanian filmmaker Adina Pintilie, the two-hour epic is a mesmerizing look at human sexuality from a wide diversity of perspectives. The film is anchored around Laura’s quest to discover her sexuality, playing like a feminist reversal of Lars von Trier’s hyper-sexual “Nymphomaniac,” if the Danish auteur had actually understood the infinite complexity of women’s desire. (Laura even looks a bit like Charlotte Gainsbourg). Encouraged by Pintilie, who appears onscreen framed by the hood of her camera’s monitor, Laura seeks out various sex workers to aid her in her search for intimacy.
   151. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2019 at 05:49 PM (#5822886)
the quasi-legendary Grant Park show in Chicago on that tour


Why was it legendary?

I saw them in 97 and twice in 00. Tremendous each time.
   152. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 14, 2019 at 05:57 PM (#5822887)
Why was it legendary?
I've just heard it spoken of in reverential tones over the years - could just be a local thing, I dunno. But it was a great vibe in the park that night, with beautiful weather as the sun was going down and the skyline acting as a backdrop (or I guess more accurately a leftdrop, as I think the crowd was facing north). The acoustics were really good, at least where we were, and I remember No Surprises at sunset was just stunning. Overall performance was excellent.
   153. Brian C Posted: March 14, 2019 at 06:10 PM (#5822891)
I finally got to see Radiohead for the first time last summer on the Moon-Shaped Pool tour, and it was a wonderful show. They actually played two nights here in Chicago, and I regret not going the second night, too, since about 2/3rds of the playlist was different. Between the two nights they played something like 40 different songs.

I'm a somewhat unusual Radiohead fan, though, in that despite being 40 years old, I came to them pretty late and love their more recent albums as much as the ones in their 90s peak. So a show where half the songs they play are from their last 3-4 albums is just fine with me.


With a few notable exceptions, movies handle violence in one of three ways:

1. The movie characters resolve their problems by using violence, and they revel in it and celebrate it, because the movies believe violence is just. (Your Michael Bay movies, Dirty Harries, Death Wishes, Star Wars, etc).
2. The movie characters still resolve all their problems by using violence, but the characters feel conflicted about it afterwards. (Zero Dark Thirty, American Sniper)
3. The movie shows all the violence, but with ironic distance or satiric disdain. (Starship Troopers, Kingsman, Fight Club, Tarantino, etc.)

I would dispute your classifications here, in that the movies you listed in #3 all really belong in category #1, except that the filmmakers want to make you think that they're just being ironic. I'm not even sure that Tarantino is pretending to be ironic anyway - his films play to me like he's really getting off on the violence. Same with Matthew Vaughn.

I'm sure there are plenty others, but the only movie I can think of offhand that belongs in #3 is Oliver Stone's Natural Born Killers, which is a very angry film, but I think Stone maybe miscalculated the effect it would have.

Maybe Aronofsky's Mother belongs in this category as well.
   154. Jay Z Posted: March 14, 2019 at 07:33 PM (#5822907)
You might at least rethink the phrasing, as a show like Curb Your Enthusiasm has a huge amount of human element. It's a very honest exploration of what it's like to be human. The humour largely comes from it hitting too close to home.

I might suggest a better term, but I'm really not sure what you're after, here.


I never really watch the show, so I can only say so much. I just extrapolated based on the end of Seinfeld.

Seinfeld was famously "no hugging, no learning." As opposed to a show like M*A*S*H, whose later characters went through a perhaps unbelievable amount of character development. In the later years characters would learn something every episode, likely enumerated in specific dialog. Some people liked this, thought it made the characters more likable and smarter. I did not care for it, preferred the early years.

Seinfeld showed (to me anyway) that going the other direction is just as much of a straitjacket. Plus, the show shifted from having archetypes that acted out the "little things" based on Seinfeld's stand up to four terrible people who deserved to be in jail. People who never learn and always do the wrong thing are just as limited and boring as the opposite.

I figured that since David was seemingly the more responsible for the misanthropic direction of Seinfeld, that I would have no interest in his new show. Perhaps Curb is more nuanced than my limited impression.
   155. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: March 14, 2019 at 07:50 PM (#5822909)
I am a big fan of Curb, but "nuanced" is not a word I would use to describe it.
   156. KB JBAR (trhn) Posted: March 14, 2019 at 08:56 PM (#5822915)
I was at the Grant Park Radiohead show. We weren't that far from the stage off to the left. When mentally reviewing my all-time favorite shows, I'd forgotten about it. It was one of the better outdoor venue shows I've seen, but really I don't like giant crowds.

My favorite concerts are Paul Simon at the Vic, Bill Callahan at Constellation. And my first shows, Violent Femmes and They Might Be Giants at Otto's in DeKalb.

2019 will be a good year for shows in Chicago: Built to Spill, Bill Callahan and The Antlers are all playing Thalia Hall. And Damo Suzuki is playing Constellation.
   157. BrianBrianson Posted: March 14, 2019 at 09:10 PM (#5822917)
Now, I haven't seen a ton. But, my impression is that it's "no learning" is a far more human approach to life than say, Full House's every episode a life lesson where everyone grows (and the "no hugging, no learning" is a pretty explicit backlash to Cosby Show style sitcoms)
   158. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 14, 2019 at 09:42 PM (#5822924)
ATTN:

Hirokazu Kore-eda‘s 2018 Palme d’or winner Shoplifters is now streaming on Hulu.
   159. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 14, 2019 at 09:42 PM (#5822925)
Paul Simon at the Vic,
I was there too! What a treat to see Simon in such a small venue.
   160. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2019 at 09:59 PM (#5822927)
Just don't tell Jay Z about It's Always Sunny.
   161. Lassus Posted: March 14, 2019 at 10:12 PM (#5822928)
Berlin Film Festival Winner ‘Touch Me Not’ Is Like If ‘Nymphomaniac’ Actually Got Women’s Sexuality

Is everyone in the film having sex married?
   162. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2019 at 11:09 PM (#5822937)
"Lord, make me chaste - but not yet."
   163. chisoxcollector Posted: March 15, 2019 at 06:28 AM (#5822948)
Hirokazu Kore-eda‘s 2018 Palme d’or winner Shoplifters is now streaming on Hulu.


Awesome, thanks for the heads up. I’ve been looking forward to seeing that. Now if only Burning would hit one of the streaming services.
   164. manchestermets Posted: March 15, 2019 at 06:35 AM (#5822949)
Another Monster tour vet here - again in the UK, with Echobelly, Terrovision and The Beautiful South supporting, which would have been a really good show on its own without REM coming on afterwards.

THE TEENS WHO LISTEN TO ‘MALLWAVE’ ARE NOSTALGIC FOR AN EXPERIENCE THEY’VE NEVER HAD


In 20 years' time they'll all be on baseball websites complaining about the decline that started in 1999.
   165. Lassus Posted: March 15, 2019 at 06:58 AM (#5822951)
THE TEENS WHO LISTEN TO ‘MALLWAVE’ ARE NOSTALGIC FOR AN EXPERIENCE THEY’VE NEVER HAD

The idea that somehow these teens are unique in their misplaced nostalgia from EVERYONE WHO CAME BEFORE is pathetic.

FFS, am I the only one who remembers our own cocktail nation genre of the entire 90s and early aughts?

The preening superiority presumption of each generation is bizarre in its infinite consistency.
   166. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 15, 2019 at 08:53 AM (#5822967)
FFS, am I the only one who remembers our own cocktail nation genre of the entire 90s and early aughts?
I assume you’re referring to the whole ‘Swingers’/Squirrel Nut Zippers thing? Yeah, that was pretty grievous. And baffling, even at the time.
   167. BrianBrianson Posted: March 15, 2019 at 09:00 AM (#5822968)
FFS, am I the only one who remembers our own cocktail nation genre of the entire 90s and early aughts?


Yes, but I've been to a civil war re-enactment.
   168. jmurph Posted: March 15, 2019 at 09:14 AM (#5822972)
Now if only Burning would hit one of the streaming services.

I'm not in front of my TV but I believe it's rentable from Amazon.
   169. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 15, 2019 at 09:28 AM (#5822975)
Now if only Burning would hit one of the streaming services.



I'm not in front of my TV but I believe it's rentable from Amazon.


Justwatch (website and app). It is streaming from a service I am not familiar with and can be rented a couple of places (but not Amazon). I would name names, but then you wouldn't have the fun of using the site.
   170. Brian C Posted: March 15, 2019 at 10:51 AM (#5822992)
FFS, am I the only one who remembers our own cocktail nation genre of the entire 90s and early aughts?

Hell, what about ballparks all over the country being built as callbacks to long-gone parks that almost no one was old enough to have visited.
   171. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 15, 2019 at 11:13 AM (#5823000)
I was very sad that Burning didn’t get a theatrical screening out here. I really wanted to see that on a big screen (Lee Chang-dong is one of my 2-3 favorite working directors).
   172. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 15, 2019 at 12:07 PM (#5823017)
It’s still holding on. LETTERBOXD FRIENDS 2019 BOX OFFICE

1. High Flying Bird, 68
2. Glass, 66
3. Velvet Buzzsaw, 56
4. Fyre, 52
5. Alita: Battle Angel, 50
6. Captain Marvel, 41

3 of the top 4 went straight-to-Netflix.
   173. Lassus Posted: March 15, 2019 at 02:51 PM (#5823059)
James Gunn has been re-hired to helm Guardians of the Galaxy III by Marvel/Disney.

It's good that the trolls are failing; but at the same time, I thought GotG II sucked.
   174. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 15, 2019 at 06:28 PM (#5823089)
Park Chan-wook directing an ultra violent western scripted by S. Craig Zahler and potentially starring Matthew McConaughey? Cannot wait!

Meh. I think I’m done with Mr Park Chan-wook.
   175. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 15, 2019 at 06:47 PM (#5823090)
(I’ve seen Park’s last 8 movies but….that combination of ”ultra-violent” and “western” “S. Craig Zahler“ and “Matthew McConaughey” is just an awful, awful, awful lot to take.)
   176. Master of the Horse Posted: March 15, 2019 at 08:29 PM (#5823096)
Took team for early happy hour and got home to wife saying I need to take her to dinner and then some. Maybe should have passed on the Yellowstone doubles neat. ####
   177. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 15, 2019 at 10:25 PM (#5823101)
Had a wretched experience at a second-run theater, that unknowingly was screening the 3D version of a movie (Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse. So, ya know—no glasses, the whole thing was a blurry mess. Ah well.
   178. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: March 15, 2019 at 10:56 PM (#5823102)
The preening superiority presumption of each generation is bizarre in its infinite consistency.
I'm stealing this, Lassus.
   179. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: March 16, 2019 at 01:41 AM (#5823110)
   180. Obo Posted: March 16, 2019 at 02:25 AM (#5823111)
Late to this, hope that's ok, but I think the best concert I've attended was Tindersticks at the Westbeth Theatre in New York City in 1996 or so. Such an intense show. Runner-ups would be the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion at The Opera House in Toronto in 94 or 95 and a slew of late nineties/early aughts Yo La Tengo concerts at various NYC venues. Yo La Tengo always delivered.

Worst was probably Tortoise at Tramps, again NYC some time around the late 90's. Just dull with no intensity or connection with the audience at all. Actually there were probably others that were worse but this one was so disappointing.
   181. chisoxcollector Posted: March 16, 2019 at 07:38 AM (#5823116)
Had a wretched experience at a second-run theater, that unknowingly was screening the 3D version of a movie (Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse. So, ya know—no glasses, the whole thing was a blurry mess. Ah well


That’s too bad. I watched that film for a second time yesterday. It’s one of the most fun movies I’ve ever seen, and is a contender for the best comic book movie ever made. Not necessarily the best movie made from a comic book, but the best comic book movie, if that makes sense. The only other contender IMO is Scott Pilgrim vs. the World.
   182. Lassus Posted: March 16, 2019 at 07:52 AM (#5823117)
With pleasure, Benji.




And if only the theater hadn't been out of 3D glasses by the time the movie started.
   183. BrianBrianson Posted: March 16, 2019 at 09:00 AM (#5823119)
Yeah, I was very impressed by Into the Spiderverse - story, characters, visual styles were all great. The heavy visual styling probably meant unknowningly seeing it in 3D is an exceedingly bad idea.
   184. PreservedFish Posted: March 16, 2019 at 10:55 AM (#5823131)
The idea that somehow these teens are unique in their misplaced nostalgia from EVERYONE WHO CAME BEFORE is pathetic.

FFS, am I the only one who remembers our own cocktail nation genre of the entire 90s and early aughts?

The preening superiority presumption of each generation is bizarre in its infinite consistency.


So, I'm pro-hipster and pro-irony, so I don't agree with Elroy Ripken's take in the slightest.

But I think this response misses what annoys him. Retro crazes undoubtedly go back millenia. I don't think there's anything unusual about handlebar mustaches and raw denim pants and midcentury furniture coming back into style. This is just cyclical stuff. (I mean ... the Renaissance, am I right?)

However ... I don't know if it's true that generations have always reclaimed the dreck and schlok of previous generations, and smirkingly repurposed them. That's sort of what the Mallwave/Vaporwave thing seems like (eg, using Kenny Loggins samples). I could be 100% wrong about this. I imagine there are many examples of people like TS Eliot or Pablo Picasso doing exactly this.

My argument in #133 is that it's not all a joke. And so let's think about the swing craze of the 90s. It seemed pretty earnest to me. Stupid, but earnest. It's also possible that the baby boomers looked at all that, still associating swing music with their parents' stultifying Benny Goodman and Stan Kenton records, and thought it was the most obnoxious ironic trend they'd ever seen. But I had friends that were listening to Big Bad Voodoo Daddy and Squirrel Nut Zippers (and Louis Prima) and took swing dancing lessons and there was nothing ironic about it. Maybe that's just because they were teenagers. Maybe Jon Favreau thought the whole thing was hilarious. At the same time, there was a revival of Lounge and Exotica music (eg Les Baxter, Esquivel), those compilations that had fuzzy leopardskin album covers and such, and that couldn't have not been ironic. I don't know, I guess I'm saying it's complicated.

But I don't get down on any of it. You want to throw some Kenny Loggins into your abandoned mall soundtrack Youtube stream? Go for it. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. And I don't care if it's supposed to be funny or not either. Kids are enjoying it, that's good enough for me.
   185. Omineca Greg Posted: March 16, 2019 at 11:34 AM (#5823141)
Kenny Loggins is good. Think of the Top Gun soundtrack, for instance.

Director: "OK, Kenny, for this scene we're going for a veiled homo-erotic kind of feeling. You now, oiled down dudes getting all sweaty..."

Kenny: "That doesn't sound all that veiled to me..."

Director: "It is, trust me on this. Only the real thinkers will get it."

Kenny: "You're the boss. Put a number on it."

Director: "Put a number on it?"

Kenny: "Put a number on it. I'm a professional. I can do anything. 0% gay...100% gay. I don't care. That's why I'm in demand for all these cheesy movies that 30 years from now people are going to laugh at. Put a number on it."

Director: "I really don't think of this as a 'cheesy' film, we're going for a nuanced take on..."

Kenny: "Sure. Sure. Nuanced, I got ya. How gay and nuanced do you want it? 30%, that nuanced? 60%, like Culture Club? I can go 100%, Bronski Beat, demo is on your desk by morning. I don't care."

Director: "Well, we're going for 'veiled homo-erotic', so we don't want to lose the 'erotic', how 'bout 40%?"

Kenny: "Done!"

And on the director's desk the next day was this.

That's talent, you can't take that away from Kenny.
   186. Lassus Posted: March 16, 2019 at 11:50 AM (#5823143)
My argument in #133 is that it's not all a joke.

I agree with this.
   187. Omineca Greg Posted: March 16, 2019 at 12:37 PM (#5823152)
That's sort of what the Mallwave/Vaporwave thing seems like (eg, using Kenny Loggins samples). I could be 100% wrong about this. I imagine there are many examples of people like TS Eliot or Pablo Picasso doing exactly this.


Picasso using Loggins samples? Maybe...

A Picasso tribute to Loggins' work in Top Gun

Your Mama Don't Dance

Footloose

Danny's Song

Whenever I Call You "Friend"

House At Pooh Corner

Don't Fight It
   188. Omineca Greg Posted: March 16, 2019 at 02:33 PM (#5823167)
And I don't care if it's supposed to be funny or not either. Kids are enjoying it, that's good enough for me.


To me, a hipster is someone who enjoys pop culture with an increased sense of importance of that culture's place in the wider context of its relationship to general pop culture. Often there will be a sense of irony, but sometimes not. What almost always comes with hipsterism, is an inflated opinion's of one's taste, or "hipness" as it were.

Again, to me, it really doesn't matter why somebody likes something. Music, movies, whatever...if somebody's fun is in part fuelled by irony or humour, or some other distancing mechanism, or just the fact that it's the latest thing that most people haven't caught on to (either "yet" or something so out of step with mainstream culture, that it's never going to catch on) it matters not to me. But here's the thing...

What annoys me about hipsters, is that because whatever it is that tickles their sub-conscious, and makes them especially tuned in to a piece of art's relationship to the world, almost always comes with a smugness...a self-congratulatory pat on the back that because the hipster is aware of all these extra trappings, that is, the commonly held perception of any work of art vs. what the hipster feels about it. That the hipster enjoys work on that level, isn't by nature annoying, but the idea that everyone else is just too stupid to get it is. Most people simply don't give a ####.

The other thing that annoys me about hipsters is that they consider themselves wildly idiosyncratic individuals, breaking the mold, blah blah, when really, for the most part, they get their ideas from Hipster Inc., next to the shoe store at the mall. I have the same problem with hippies, "letting your freak flag fly" seems to me acting like everyone else around you. It's a trap of any group that prides itself on individuality and originality...sorry hipsters/hippies, you're no more original, thought provoking, or perceptive than anybody else...you just have a different sense of aesthetics. Now, maybe I've just had some bad experiences with self-important blowhards, and maybe my opinion is somewhat shaped by dealing with Ominecan hipsters, which are not the hippest hipsters who ever hipped.

[Verse 1]
Don't say what you mean
You might spoil your face
If you walk in the crowd
You won't leave any trace
It's always the same
You're jumping someone else's train

[Chorus]
It won't take you long
To learn the new smile
You'll have to adapt
Or you'll be out of style
It's always the same
You're jumping someone else's train

[Bridge]
If you pick up on it quick
You can say you were there
Again and again and again
You're jumping someone else's train

[Verse 2]
It's the latest wave
That you've been craving for
The old ideal
Was getting such a bore
Now you're back in line
Going not quite quite as far
But in half the time
Everyone's happy
They're finally all the same
Cause everyone's jumping
Everyone else's train

Dempsey/Smith/Tolhurst


"Now you're back in line
Going not quite quite as far
But in half the time"

Great lines.
   189. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 16, 2019 at 02:41 PM (#5823168)
But I think this response misses what annoys him. Retro crazes undoubtedly go back millenia. I don't think there's anything unusual about handlebar mustaches and raw denim pants and midcentury furniture coming back into style. This is just cyclical stuff. (I mean ... the Renaissance, am I right?)

However ... I don't know if it's true that generations have always reclaimed the dreck and schlok of previous generations, and smirkingly repurposed them. That's sort of what the Mallwave/Vaporwave thing seems like (eg, using Kenny Loggins samples).
You know me, PF! You really know me!

Yeah, what annoys me about ironic hipsterism is the whole "I'm trying to be so uncool that I'm actually so much cooler than you!" thing.
   190. Omineca Greg Posted: March 16, 2019 at 02:46 PM (#5823170)
And I don't care if it's supposed to be funny or not either. Kids are enjoying it, that's good enough for me.


To me, a hipster is someone who enjoys pop culture with an increased sense of importance put on that culture's place in the wider context of its specific relationship to general pop culture. Often there will be a sense of irony, but sometimes not. What almost always comes with hipsterism, is an inflated opinion's of one's taste, or "hipness" as it were.

Again, to me, it really doesn't matter why somebody likes something. Music, movies, whatever...if somebody's fun is in part fuelled by irony or humour, or some other distancing mechanism, or just the fact that it's the latest thing that most people haven't caught on to (either "yet" or something so out of step with mainstream culture, that it's never going to catch on) it matters not to me. But here's the thing...

What annoys me about hipsters, is that because whatever it is that tickles their sub-conscious, and makes them especially tuned in to a piece of art's relationship to the world, almost always comes with a smugness...a self-congratulatory pat on the back that because the hipster is aware of all these extra trappings, that is, the commonly held perception of any work of art vs. what the hipster feels about it. That the hipster enjoys work on that level, isn't by nature annoying, but the idea that everyone else is just too stupid to get it is. Most people simply don't give a ####.

The other thing that annoys me about hipsters is that they consider themselves wildly idiosyncratic individuals, breaking the mold, blah blah, when really, for the most part, they get their ideas from Hipster Inc., next to the shoe store at the mall. I have the same problem with hippies, "letting your freak flag fly" seems to me acting like everyone else around you. It's a trap of any group that prides itself on individuality and originality...sorry hipsters/hippies, you're no more original, thought provoking, or perceptive than anybody else...you just have a different sense of aesthetics. Now, maybe I've just had some bad experiences with self-important blowhards, and maybe my opinion is somewhat shaped by dealing with Ominecan hipsters, who are not the hippest hipsters who ever hipped.

[Verse 1]
Don't say what you mean
You might spoil your face
If you walk in the crowd
You won't leave any trace
It's always the same
You're jumping someone else's train

[Chorus]
It won't take you long
To learn the new smile
You'll have to adapt
Or you'll be out of style
It's always the same
You're jumping someone else's train

[Bridge]
If you pick up on it quick
You can say you were there
Again and again and again
You're jumping someone else's train

[Verse 2]
It's the latest wave
That you've been craving for
The old ideal
Was getting such a bore
Now you're back in line
Going not quite quite as far
But in half the time
Everyone's happy
They're finally all the same
Cause everyone's jumping
Everyone else's train

Dempsey/Smith/Tolhurst


"Now you're back in line
Going not quite quite as far
But in half the time"

Great lines.

And while I'm up on my soapbox, I'll add in that when to comes to the changing fashions wrought by time, what often gets forgotten is that, even in the moment, some culture/art...whatever, is already ironic, mocking, self-knowing whatever, not everything that's ever created is meant to have no distance from its time. Loud, plaid suit jackets? Everybody knew those were goofy, right at the time. They were goofy/cool, not goofy/goofy, but still. That somebody comes along and sees more of the goofy/cool and buys themselves' a thrift store jacked and struts around it, with full knowledge that it's goofy, but embracing it and trying to make it cool, well, that component of that particular design was always there, it's not a creation out of whole cloth, but a re-discovery of something that was original to its conception.
   191. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 16, 2019 at 02:48 PM (#5823171)
What annoys me about hipsters, is that because whatever it is that tickles their sub-conscious, and makes them especially tuned in to a piece of art's relationship to the world, almost always comes with a smugness...a self-congratulatory pat on the back that because the hipster is aware of all these extra trappings, that is, the commonly held perception of any work of art vs. what the hipster feels about it.
Bingo.
   192. PreservedFish Posted: March 16, 2019 at 03:29 PM (#5823180)
To me, you guys are just describing ########.

For a little while I played in an adult dodgeball league in Oakland, CA. Every year they sent an all-star team to the "Burt Reynolds Dodgeball Tournament and Mustache Expo" in Silver Lake, Los Angeles. This thing was hipster central, as you might imagine.

Here's a photo from the LA event you may enjoy of a gentleman with an ironic mullet and granny glasses wearing a diaper, next to another gentleman in a bunny costume.

You know what? Great people. Super fun and eager and welcoming.
   193. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 16, 2019 at 04:00 PM (#5823182)
I would argue that that guy made a conscious choice to wear that hairstyle and glasses (and diaper, for that matter), and to thereby communicate a certain message (see 189). And that by doing so, he is being a smug #######. You can't just write that off if he happens to be friendly to you.
   194. PreservedFish Posted: March 16, 2019 at 04:05 PM (#5823183)
In the exchange here:

Hipster: dresses flamboyantly like a goddam idiot (for reasons unknown)
Elroy: assumes the hipster must be an #######

You're the one that's acting worse.
   195. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 16, 2019 at 04:07 PM (#5823184)
If someone insisted on wearing a red MAGA hat everywhere, would you pretend that it was "for reasons unknown" and say it didn't say anything about the guy if he was jovial with you? No. People communicate with their choices.
   196. PreservedFish Posted: March 16, 2019 at 04:19 PM (#5823187)
Of course they do, but I don't agree that he's necessarily communicating "I am cooler than you." He might just be a fun-loving dope. You're inferring a negativity and arrogance that I think is unfair.

It feels like you're projecting. Maybe you're really concerned that he actually IS cooler than you are. I bet you two could agree on 80's arena rock though.
   197. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 16, 2019 at 04:22 PM (#5823189)
Oh, most everyone is cooler than I am. I’m well aware of that.
   198. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 16, 2019 at 04:27 PM (#5823190)
But anyway, genuine fun-loving dopes don’t go out of their way to conspicuously adopt styles at the bottom of the mainstream ‘cool’ hierarchy. They just disregard the hierarchy. And that’s what pisses me off about hipsters: They pretend that they’re not buying into the hierarchy, when in fact they 100 percent are, they’re just trying to invert it in their favor.
   199. PreservedFish Posted: March 16, 2019 at 04:32 PM (#5823191)
How do you know what they're pretending to do?

I mean, it could be as simple as, "Dude check out Richard Dean Anderson's mullet. Should I grow one of those? Wouldn't that be hilarious?"
   200. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 16, 2019 at 04:37 PM (#5823192)
So you’re saying they’re not pretending at all, and that they’re openly trying to adopt a reverse hierarchy? Is that any less obnoxious?
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